John Bolton on Trump-Putin meeting, US-India relations and more

India Today

In an exclusive interview with India Today, former US National Security Advisor John Bolton discusses the meeting between President Trump and President Putin in Alaska, US-India relations and a slew of issues.

Transcript

00:00All right, we have a special guest this evening.

00:02Joining me is former National Security Advisor for President Trump in his first term, Ambassador John Bolton.

00:09He's joining us live.

00:10Thank you, sir, for taking the time out and joining us live and taking our questions back home in India.

00:14My first question, sir, you know, and I want to take it off from the meeting of President Trump with President Putin.

00:23Now, President Trump, Mr. Bolton laid out, if one can call the red carpet,

00:28welcomed Putin in Alaska, a military flyover, a ride in the presidential limousine,

00:34completely caught in Putin, possibly ending his international isolation.

00:40According to you, Ambassador, did Putin clearly have the upper hand,

00:45something which has been criticized by Trump, of your opinion?

00:49Yeah, I think Putin has been able to reestablish in Trump's mind that they're friends again.

00:55And Trump sees international relations through the prism of personal relations.

01:01And I think Putin has demonstrated, again, his KGB agent training in his efforts to manipulate Trump.

01:09So I think that the Russians have escaped Trump's threat of additional sanctions or additional sanctions on purchases of their oil

01:19and left India as the only country, not China, not Russia itself, not Turkey, not others,

01:27that have been subjected to sanctions.

01:29To be clear, I think the purchase of Russian oil and gas is something India should move away from.

01:36But part of the problem here is the way the sanctions themselves have been set up.

01:40And if Navarro and Besson have trouble with that,

01:43there are ways that there are things they can do to change the sanctions and then give India a chance to comply.

01:50Well, Ambassador Bolton, I'm glad you're saying it for what it is,

01:53the sanctions and not tariffs of what, you know, is the official communique on that.

01:58But, you know, taking off from the meeting with President Trump and President Putin,

02:03one thing is very clear, there is no ceasefire yet.

02:06Talks will have to take place even as the war is on.

02:08Putin seems to have made it very clear and it's evident that his peace plan is practically exactly the same

02:15as what was the original Kremlin stand.

02:17So nothing really has changed where Putin comes from.

02:21No, Putin hasn't changed a bit.

02:23His objective is still to reincorporate Ukraine into a greater Russia,

02:29to recreate the Russian empire.

02:31Putin's been telling us this publicly for 20 years.

02:34No surprise.

02:34Do you see President Trump here completely blinded by possibly the lure of a Nobel Prize

02:41being manipulated by President Putin?

02:45Well, I think everybody is trying to manipulate him.

02:47They can all see that he wants the Nobel Peace Prize,

02:49but I think the European leaders and Zelensky came to meet with Trump on Monday

02:55to try to provide a vaccine or an antidote to the meeting with Putin in Alaska the Friday before.

03:03And I think this is now going to go back and forth.

03:05I don't see any substantive change by anybody.

03:09And I don't blame the Ukrainians.

03:11If I were in their shoes, I wouldn't concede anything either.

03:14But I don't see the basis on which negotiations can proceed.

03:18What Trump wants to do is kind of bounce everybody into an agreement that he can then take credit for.

03:23If it falls apart later, I don't think he's so worried about it.

03:27He can then blame it on other people.

03:29But he wants this to add to his list of accomplishments like solving the conflict between Pakistan and India a few months ago

03:39that make it seven wars out of seven this year that he's ended.

03:43The record doesn't demonstrate it, but this is Trump, the PR expert, trying to campaign for a Nobel Prize.

03:51You know, because if you did look at it, Ambassador Bolton, and maybe you can weigh in on it,

03:55because it did seem that President Putin wanted to talk about everything else but Ukraine.

04:00He really did not want to address the situation in Ukraine.

04:02He's very happy the way things are, it seems.

04:04Well, I think he is, but what he proposed to Trump by many reported sources is he demanded the session by Ukraine

04:14of about a third of the Donetsk province, a big part of the province that the Russians haven't been able to conquer,

04:20which I think Putin knows is unacceptable to Zelensky and the Ukrainians.

04:24So he's trying to put them in the position of being the party that obstructed Trump's peace efforts.

04:31But you're quite right that he really wants to talk about the bigger picture,

04:35the overall relationship with the United States, because he thinks that puts himself in a better frame in Trump's view.

04:43Right. But Ambassador Bolton, because where seeding of any land is concerned,

04:47it would require a referendum back in Ukraine.

04:50Politically, at least right now, it could be impossible.

04:53Or do you think it's a different play field?

04:55No, I think the Zelensky government would be in real trouble if it gave up any substantial portion of Ukrainian land,

05:04even in just a ceasefire, not talking about sovereignty questions here, at least in the near term,

05:09but just what happens in an interim ceasefire or truce while negotiations go on.

05:16I think Zelensky would be hard pressed to give up anything.

05:19It's true that polls in Ukraine show a very, very large percentage of people want to have peace.

05:24Why wouldn't they, after three and a half years of attacks on their civilian population by the Russians?

05:31But equally high numbers show that they don't think that Russia's aggression should be rewarded.

05:38Ambassador Bolton, you know, European leaders that we saw sought security guarantees for Ukraine,

05:43very similar to Article 5 of the NATO treaty,

05:46which would mean any attack on Ukraine will invite retaliation from NATO countries.

05:50However, you have President Trump that's clarified in an interview that it cannot be NATO.

05:56Trump has added that U.S. troops won't be stationed in Ukraine.

06:00Has he once again somewhere down the line thrown Europe under the bus?

06:05Well, I think it has been his position and reaffirmed this week as well

06:10that he doesn't want American boots on the ground in Ukraine, would have to be Europeans.

06:16And although there was some talk of American air power, it's very unclear whether Trump means

06:21American combat aircraft or American cargo aircraft to carry in supplies for whatever Europeans may be on the ground.

06:30This is all very unclear.

06:32And it shows why, despite all the diplomatic effort, all the pomp and circumstance,

06:37on the substantive questions of how a truce or a final agreement would look like,

06:45they're just nowhere near it.

06:47Ambassador, I was reading your opinion piece after the Alaska summit.

06:51You seem to have argued that Ukraine needs now firm assurances of continued U.S. and European military aid.

06:57Trump has since said security guarantees would come from Europe in coordination with the U.S.,

07:02ruling out ground troops but leaving open the option of air support.

07:06Do you believe this approach can realistically work or do you think it's a far cry?

07:10Well, I don't think Trump is fully aware of exactly what he's promising.

07:15I mean, he has said on the positive side that we would continue to sell equipment, weapons, ammunition and the like

07:21to Europeans who could then pass it on to Ukraine.

07:24But this is hardly the kind of role that I think it's appropriate and important for America to play

07:30to help Ukraine on the strategic side so that they can put themselves in a better negotiating position.

07:37And I just don't think Trump's thinking through the specifics.

07:42But, you know, Trump is known, Ambassador, for his transactional diplomacy, especially in the recent past.

07:46Ukraine has offered now to buy arms worth $90 billion.

07:49Will that sway him?

07:50Yeah, I think he's very happy about that.

07:54But I think he recognizes that he still hasn't brought the two parties closer together.

07:59And in fact, this morning in Moscow, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov was quoted as saying

08:06that Russians are not going to accept any security guarantees or forces in Ukraine

08:12that they haven't participated in helping to shape.

08:16Now, that's a pretty outrageous demand, but I think it also shows once more that the Russian

08:22position is just as firm as it was before last Friday.

08:26You know, Ambassador, I'm just going to take two or three questions from you regarding the

08:29geopolitics of it and implications of it where India is concerned.

08:33Now, experts seem to suggest that U.S. president's tariff, along with perceptions of a very diminished

08:39American role in the Indo-Pacific partnerships, have accelerated efforts to stabilize.

08:45An India-China relation.

08:47In the past, and you'd know that, Washington has actively encouraged India to counterbalance

08:55Beijing in the region.

08:56Now, how do you view the recent thaw in India-China ties?

08:59Of course, we are coming off Operation Sindhu, where we actually thought we fought a proxy

09:04battle with China and not Pakistan.

09:07Yeah, look, I think the reaction in India to grow closer to China and Russia is very unfortunate.

09:15And that's why this question of the sanctions against India, India alone, not Russia, not

09:22China, not others, pose more problems than they solve.

09:26I think you have to look at the long term here, and that is that China is the principal threat

09:31in both East and South Asia.

09:34And its increasing access with Russia puts Russia increasingly on China's side.

09:40I think that's the strategic future, and I think that's what India should be focused on.

09:46You know, but the hypocrisy of America has put India in a situation where, you know, China

09:52continues to buy oil from Russia, but we face tariffs in the form of sanctions.

09:57The question I'd like to ask you is, Ambassador, with Trump now imposing sanctions, you know,

10:03we'll call it steep tariffs on India, the U.S.-India relation is practically at an all-time low.

10:09You previously had called 50 percent tariff against India a mistake in the bilateral relationship.

10:15Can there be a reset in India-U.S. ties?

10:19Well, I think this is a Trump mistake.

10:21It's shooting ourselves in the foot, and I think that has to be taken into account.

10:28This was no decision endorsed by the U.S. Congress or overwhelmingly by the people.

10:34This is part of Trump's effort to win the Nobel Peace Prize.

10:38And, you know, I understand the reaction in India.

10:43I do, but again, I think you have to grit your teeth and look longer term here at what

10:49I think is the best interest of both countries in the future to have a closer relationship

10:53to worry about the threat that China poses.

10:57Ambassador, my final question, while India-U.S. ties are under strain clearly, there seems to

11:03be, which has made us rather uncomfortable, in increasing Bonhomie between U.S. and Pakistan.

11:07Now, how do you view the U.S.-Pakistan ties right now, and what could be the future geopolitical

11:14dynamics of that concerning India?

11:17Well, I think, again, this perhaps stems from the controversy over the terrorist attack in

11:23Kashmir and Trump taking credit for resolving and lowering tensions between Pakistan and India.

11:29I think a lot of people around the world were concerned about it.

11:33I think, obviously, as in the case in 2019 in the terrorist attack in Kashmir, where I participated,

11:40these were decisions primarily made by India and Pakistan in their own good judgment.

11:46So it's important to try and keep this in perspective and to remember that Trump is an aberration in American

11:56politics.

11:57And although we've still got three and a half years to go, I concede that that's not necessarily

12:02the permanent direction of U.S. policy.

12:06Ambassador, appreciate you taking the time out and joining us.

12:09Thank you there.

12:10We appreciate your time.

12:11Thank you for having me.

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