00:00It's important that I point out One India to an Indian audience, among others who may be watching
00:05it, because you don't seem to understand the gravity of the situation in India, because you
00:09have this Soviet-Russian romantic, nostalgic view of Moscow. We don't want to see a Europe divided
00:16again into an East-West confrontational theater, which is what Putin wants. And it's not a question
00:21of provoking him or antagonizing him. Nobody is doing that as such. It is he who has been offensive,
00:27going into other people's territories and carving up lands as such.
00:31You are sitting in the UK, right? And we are here in India. Of course, we are, if we had
00:36to fantasize with the relationship, I think a lot would not have happened. What has happened
00:42between India and Russia, of course, India and USA and Prime Minister Modi going to USA
00:49next month. However, a lot has changed since Trump has become the president. And it has
00:56changed not on just monthly basis, but on daily basis.
01:00Russia is losing 1072 casualties a day. It is known in Russian parlance as the meat grinder.
01:06Not that it matters to Putin, because of course, his ego is on the line and his obsession of
01:11being another Peter the Great or Catherine the Great. And these, among other notions of Russian
01:15nationalism that animate his warped thinking. And Russian economists, just as of July 2025, have
01:23informed the Kremlin that they are running a deficit of 45.3 billion pounds. That's 4.88 trillion
01:32rubles. Yes, he's managed to pull off a war for three years, but I don't think he can continue
01:38for a year plus more. Oil sales or not, he simply can't. And what is the Russian economy as we speak?
01:44An overheated economy where deficits are running and inflation is in double digit figures. And the entire
01:52economy has been geared into wartime running with productivity across several sectors, organized sectors
01:59of labor, completely depleted because everyone is into defense, procurement and the rest of it. So, so many sectors
02:05have stagnated as such. You ask, what does Russia, what does Europe and the UK want? As Walter mentioned,
02:16Finland was practically occupied by Stalin and the Russians. So were the Baltic states. All of them
02:21felt the Soviet heel for 40 years. And that is important that I point out in one India to an Indian
02:27audience, among others who may be watching it, because you don't seem to understand the gravity of the
02:33situation in India, because you have this Soviet Russian romantic nostalgic view of Moscow. And
02:40that in more ways than one clouds your thinking about Russia and what others have gone through.
02:45East Europeans have gone through under the Soviet heel and under Russia. We don't want to see a
02:50Europe divided again into an East West confrontational theater, which is what Putin wants. And it's not a
02:56question of provoking him or antagonizing him. Nobody is doing that as such. It is he who has been
03:02offensive, going into other people's territories and carving up lands as such, and to roll back what
03:07he calls Russia's deterioration in stature. And somehow this is supposed to bring back Russia's glory
03:16by the acts of what he's done in Georgia. What about Kazakhstan, Harsh? Baikonur Cosmodrome,
03:23Pankaj, from where Rakesh Sharma lifted off in 1984, which you may remember as an Indian,
03:29is part of Kazakh territory. That is sovereign Kazakh territory. The Russians refused to leave Baikonur
03:35Cosmodrome until very recently, although Kazakhstan is an independent state. And they are also tinkering
03:42there in northern Kazakhstan by antagonizing white Russians, minorities settled there, that these provinces
03:48need to be seceded and joined the Russian Federation. The man has problems with everyone
03:52as such. What, how exactly does this enhance Russia's stature is anybody's guess. So the point is,
04:00you ask what Europe wants. Europe doesn't want to live under a specter of a Soviet shadow once again,
04:04when Russia in the last 20 plus years was somewhat limping to normalcy as a normal society,
04:12some modest gains in becoming a transparent democratic polity with a free press, free judiciary,
04:19free elections. All of that with one stroke in February 2022 has gone off as such. And that is
04:26something which you in the world's largest democracy need to understand, but you don't as a rule,
04:30because partly your image and viewing is clouded by this sense of Soviet procurement of weapons and the
04:35rest of it, and that you feel it's been an all-weather friend for you, which it has not.
04:39Mr. Wagmar, you are sitting in UK, right? And we are here in India. Of course, we are,
04:46if we had to fantasize with the relationship, I think a lot would not have happened, what has
04:52happened between India and Russia, of course, India and USA and Prime Minister Modi going to USA next
05:00month. However, a lot has changed since Trump has become the president, and it has changed not on just
05:08monthly basis, but on daily basis. However, we we won't agree, because we won't agree to the
05:14romanticizing of us with Putin. Putin being in criminal court of justice, he has a warrant against
05:22him to be arrested. And USA and the West talking to him, trying to convince him that please stop the
05:29war. When we asked all the panel that what can you give to Putin or what Putin is going to give in
05:34return? What did you say? It was about mercy, that Putin will show mercy by stopping the killings.
05:40This is what we got. This is what you are asking from Putin. So it is not that we are romanticizing,
05:46but it is the fear of Putin. When he puts Oresniks, then Trump sends his ships. So we know what happens
05:53and how Trump is reacting and how the West is reacting. And it is the elite of the West and the UK
05:59and US. And of course, I have been just to France and I know how are the sentiments. It's not the
06:05locals who want the fight, but it is only the politicians who wants, who want this fight.
06:11It is the elite UK and the entire Europe that wants this fight to continue, who wanted to send their
06:18soldiers. And when Putin said that it is going to get very wrong for the entire UK and for France,
06:25then they took the step back. And here Trump is making the announcements every day. So it is part
06:31of the UK and their fantasy or romanticism with Putin, or maybe I should call it as a fear of Putin,
06:38because he can do anything any day with his Oresniks and one attack. And then the entire situation might
06:44change. And of course, we know Trump has already said that there could be very serious consequences.
06:50This is what Trump said. So who is provoking whom? Ukraine cannot be wiped off the face of the earth,
06:57which is what Putin wants. Of course, but the government can be collapsed. What happened in 2014?
07:01And of course, Trump wants someone of his choice again sits there. But you asked a question about
07:08the elites. It's got nothing to do with the elites. If we talk about the report, we know that the population
07:14of Ukraine has already reduced from 56 million to 28 million people are leaving Ukraine.
07:22You asked me, you said it's got the elitist Western theaters of the defense establishment or the
07:27politics, politicians who want to create this fight or continue to sustain the war. That is not true.
07:32We are talking about, for better or for worse, from 1945, wedded to a liberal rules-based governance where
07:40you don't just walk into people's territory. You don't want China to walk into Arunachal Pradesh now,
07:44do you? Or Aksai Chin, though it's occupying a part of it. So, I mean, I would expect you to understand
07:50that. Well, then we have to, then we have to discuss the entire Palestine and what the United
07:55Nations did in the past. Right. Okay. Fair enough. So, so of course we should not deviate from there,
08:01but I don't think that India, India is not getting enough information and still fantasizing.
08:06What is USSR? Things have moved quite forward and of course we are sitting here getting guests from
08:12all the directions because we want to have different views from all the places.
08:17You still tend to have a slightly romantic view of Moscow.
08:22That is going to stay because like Elon Musk has his romanticism with Mars. Of course, we share history.
08:29They are much closer country to us than USA or the Europe. So, of course that is going to be there.
08:35We share a lot of culture and tradition. Raj Kapoor, Indian movies, they are quite famous there. We
08:41have our soft power. Indians go to study in Russia to become doctors. So, there is a lot that we share.
08:49Many more Indians study in the US to be doctors, by the way.
08:53Of course.
08:53But that started like in the last two, three decades, but Russia people have been going from 70s and you
09:02know, when we were students and I was also unfortunately trying to be a doctor and this was one of the options, the cheaper options.
09:10Air India doesn't fly to Moscow anymore, but it flies 54 times a week to the US.
09:15So, you are proving my point. We are not romanticizing with this country.
09:19And you can send back today to London. So, you should know where your bread is buttered.
09:24Well, bread and butter as far as the UK is concerned, I think UK is and should be more worried about its own
09:32resources now after Brexit. Which we are.
09:35And that you are fighting the Pakistani crowd and we saw the visuals of Manchester and what was
09:41happening, the entire crowd of Pakistan shouting Pakistan Zindabad on the streets of Manchester.
09:46It looked like Islamabad.
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