- 7 weeks ago
This episode of To The Point examines the increasing pressure from the United States on India regarding its purchase of Russian oil.
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00:00All right, the United States of America is ratcheting up pressure on India repeatedly, one after another.
00:06The Trump administration officials have come out in open criticism of the President of America.
00:14Donald Trump's trade advisor, Peter Navarro, U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant and then White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt,
00:21all of them have alleged that Indian arbitrage of Russian oil is unacceptable,
00:27underlining Washington's stand that New Delhi was fueling Moscow's war economy.
00:31And that has triggered the punishment tariff from Donald Trump at 50%.
00:36Here's the report.
00:45The American President Donald Trump decided to raise tariffs on India to discourage Russia from continuing its war in Ukraine.
00:52Look, the President has put tremendous public pressure to bring this war to a close.
00:59He's taken actions, as you've seen, sanctions on India and other actions as well.
01:04He's made himself very clear that he wants to see this war end.
01:08And he has scoffed at the ideas of others that have been raised that we should wait another month before any meeting takes place.
01:14The President wants to move and he wants to bring this war to an end as quickly as possible.
01:18Within days of the meeting with European leaders and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky,
01:27U.S. President's trade advisor, Peter Navarro, in an op-ed published in Financial Times,
01:32attacked India for fueling the Russian war economy.
01:35He called in India to stop buying Russian crude oil,
01:38accusing the Asian giant of undermining international efforts to isolate Vladimir Putin's war economy.
01:44He wrote, and I quote,
01:46In effect, India acts as a global clearinghouse for Russian oil,
01:51converting embargoed crude into high-value exports while giving Moscow the dollars it needs.
01:57Unquote.
01:58Navarro described India's dependence on Russian oil as opportunistic,
02:03adding that if India wants to be treated as a strategic partner of the U.S.,
02:07it needs to start acting like one.
02:09A day later, U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant in an interview to CNBC accused India
02:18of profiteering of reselling sanctioned Russian oil as opposed to China.
02:27The Donald Trump administration has designed to put secondary pressure on Moscow by slapping tariffs on India.
02:34The U.S. has effectively doubled India's tariff burden to 50 percent by adding an extra 25 percent on top of the earlier 25 percent levy.
02:44Beara Report, India Today.
02:46All right, we have a special guest this evening.
02:52Joining me is former National Security Advisor for President Trump in his first term, Ambassador John Bolton.
02:59He's joining us live.
03:00Thank you, sir, for taking the time out and joining us live and taking our questions back home in India.
03:04My first question, sir, you know, and I want to take it all from the meeting of President Trump with President Putin.
03:13Now, President Trump, Mr. Bolton laid out, if one can call, the red carpet, welcomed Putin in Alaska,
03:21a military flyover, a ride in the presidential limousine, completely caught in Putin, possibly ending his international isolation.
03:30According to you, Ambassador, did Putin clearly have the upper hand,
03:35something which has been criticized by Trump, of your opinion?
03:38Yeah, I think Putin has been able to reestablish in Trump's mind that they're friends again.
03:46And Trump sees international relations through the prism of personal relations.
03:51And I think Putin has demonstrated again his KGB agent training in his efforts to manipulate Trump.
03:59So I think that the Russians have escaped Trump's threat of additional sanctions or additional sanctions on purchases of their oil
04:10and left India as the only country, not China, not Russia itself, not Turkey, not others, that have been subjected to sanctions.
04:19To be clear, I think the purchase of Russian oil and gas is something India should move away from.
04:25But part of the problem here is the way the sanctions themselves have been set up.
04:31And if Navarro and Besson have trouble with that, there are ways that there are things they can do to change the sanctions
04:37and then give India a chance to comply.
04:40Well, Ambassador Bolton, I'm glad you're saying it for what it is,
04:43the sanctions are not tariffs of what, you know, is the official communique on that.
04:48But, you know, taking off from the meeting with President Trump and President Putin,
04:54one thing is very clear, there is no ceasefire yet.
04:56Talks will have to take place even as the war is on.
04:58Putin seems to have made it very clear.
05:00And it's evident that his peace plan is practically exactly the same as what was the original Kremlin stand.
05:07So nothing really has changed where Putin comes from.
05:10No, Putin hasn't changed a bit.
05:13His objective is still to reincorporate Ukraine into a greater Russia, to recreate the Russian empire.
05:21Putin's been telling us this publicly for 20 years.
05:24No surprise.
05:26Do you see President Trump here completely blinded by possibly the lure of a Nobel Prize being manipulated by President Putin?
05:35Well, I think everybody is trying to manipulate him.
05:37They can all see that he wants the Nobel Peace Prize.
05:39But I think the European leaders and Zelensky came to meet with Trump on Monday to try to provide a vaccine or an antidote to the meeting with Putin in Alaska the Friday before.
05:53And I think this is now going to go back and forth.
05:55I don't see any substantive change by anybody.
05:59And I don't blame the Ukrainians.
06:01If I were in their shoes, I wouldn't concede anything either.
06:04But I don't see the basis on which negotiations can proceed.
06:08What Trump wants to do is kind of bounce everybody into an agreement that he can then take credit for.
06:14If it falls apart later, I don't think he's so worried about it.
06:18He can then blame it on other people.
06:20But he wants this to add to his list of accomplishments like solving the conflict between Pakistan and India a few months ago that make it seven wars out of seven this year that he's ended.
06:33The record doesn't demonstrate it, but this is Trump, the PR expert, trying to campaign for a Nobel Prize.
06:40You know, because if you if you did look at it, Ambassador Bolton, and maybe you can weigh in on it, because it did seem that President Putin wanted to talk about everything else but Ukraine.
06:50He really did not want to address the situation in Ukraine.
06:53He's very happy the way things are, it seems.
06:54Well, I think he is, but what he proposed to Trump by many reported sources is he demanded the session by Ukraine of about a third of the Donetsk province, a big part of the province that the Russians haven't been able to conquer, which I think Putin knows is unacceptable to Zelensky and the Ukrainians.
07:15And so he's trying to put them in the position of being the party that obstructed Trump's peace efforts.
07:21You're quite right that that he really wants to talk about the bigger picture, the overall relationship with the United States, because he thinks that puts puts himself in a better frame in Trump's view.
07:32Right. But Ambassador Bolton, because where seeding of any land is concerned, it would require a referendum back in Ukraine.
07:40Politically, at least right now, it could be impossible. Or do you think it's a different play field?
07:46No, I think the Zelensky government would be in real trouble if it gave up any substantial portion of Ukrainian land, even in just a ceasefire, not talking about sovereignty questions here, at least in the near term, but just what happens in an interim ceasefire or truce while negotiations go on.
08:06I think Zelensky would be hard pressed to give up anything.
08:09It's true that polls in Ukraine show a very, very large percentage of people want to have peace.
08:15Why wouldn't they after three and a half years of attacks on their civilian population by the Russians?
08:21But equally high numbers show that they don't think that Russia's aggression should be rewarded.
08:27Ambassador Bolton, you know, European leaders that we saw sought security guarantees for Ukraine, very similar to Article 5 of the NATO treaty, which would mean any attack on Ukraine will invite retaliation from NATO countries.
08:41However, you have President Trump that's clarified in an interview that it cannot be NATO.
08:46Trump has added that U.S. troops won't be stationed in Ukraine.
08:50Has he once again somewhere down the line thrown Europe under the bus?
08:56Well, I think it has been his position and reaffirmed this week as well that he doesn't want American boots on the ground in Ukraine, would have to be Europeans.
09:06And although there was some talk of American air power, it's very unclear whether Trump means American combat aircraft or American cargo aircraft to to carry in supplies for whatever European may be on the ground.
09:19This is all very unclear. And it shows why, despite all the diplomatic effort, all the pomp and circumstance on the substantive questions of how a truce or a final agreement would look like, they're just nowhere near it.
09:37Ambassador, I was reading your opinion piece after the Alaska summit.
09:41You seem to have argued that Ukraine needs now firm assurances of continued U.S. and European military aid.
09:47Trump has since said security guarantees would come from Europe in coordination with the U.S., ruling out ground troops but leaving open the option of air support.
09:56Do you believe this approach can realistically work or do you think it's a far cry?
10:00Well, I don't I don't think Trump is is fully aware of exactly what he's promising.
10:04I mean, he has said on the positive side that we would continue to sell equipment, weapons, ammunition and the like to Europeans who could then pass it on to Ukraine.
10:15But but this is hardly the kind of role that that I think it's appropriate and important for America to play to help Ukraine on the strategic side so that they can put themselves in a better negotiating position.
10:27And I just I just I just don't think Trump's thinking through the specifics.
10:32But, you know, Trump is known ambassador for his transactional diplomacy, especially in the recent past.
10:36Ukraine has offered now to buy arms worth 90 billion dollars.
10:40Will that sway him?
10:42Yeah, I think he's very happy about that.
10:44But but I think he recognizes that that he still hasn't brought the two parties closer together.
10:49And in fact, this morning in Moscow, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov was quoted as saying that Russians are not going to accept any security guarantees or forces in in Ukraine that they haven't participated in helping to shape.
11:06Now, that's that's a pretty outrageous demand.
11:08But I think it also shows once more that the Russian position is just as firm as it was before last Friday.
11:15You know, Ambassador, I'm just going to take two or three questions from you regarding the geopolitics of it and implications of it where India is concerned.
11:23Now, experts seem to suggest that U.S. president's tariff, along with perceptions of a very diminished American role in the Indo-Pacific partnerships, have accelerated efforts to stabilize an India-China relation.
11:37In the past, and you'd, you know, you'd know that Washington has actively encouraged India to counterbalance Beijing in the region.
11:46Now, how do you view the recent tariff in India-China ties?
11:49Of course, we are coming off Operation Sindhu, where we actually thought we fought a proxy battle with China and not Pakistan.
11:56Yeah, look, I think the reaction in India to grow closer to China and Russia is very unfortunate.
12:05And that's why this question of the of the of the sanctions against India, India alone, not Russia, not China, not others, pose more problems than they solve.
12:16I think you have to look at the long term here. And that is that China is the principal threat in both East and South Asia and its increasing axis with Russia puts Russia increasingly on China's side.
12:30I think that's the strategic future. And I think that that's what India should be focused on.
12:35You know, but the hypocrisy of America has put India in a situation where, you know, China continues to buy oil from Russia, but we face tariffs in the form of sanctions.
12:48The question I'd like to ask you is, Ambassador, with Trump now imposing sanctions, you know, we'll call it steep tariffs on India.
12:55The U.S.-India relation is practically at an all time low.
12:59You previously had called 50 percent tariff against India a mistake in the bilateral relationship.
13:05Can there be a reset in India-U.S. ties?
13:09Well, I think this is a Trump mistake. It's it's shooting shooting ourselves in the foot.
13:15And I think I think that has to be taken into account.
13:18This was no decision endorsed by the U.S. Congress or overwhelmingly by the people.
13:24This is part of Trump's effort to win the Nobel Peace Prize.
13:28And, you know, it's the I understand the reaction in India.
13:33I do. But but again, I think you have to grit your teeth and look longer term here at what I think is the best interest of both countries in the future to have a closer relationship to worry about the threat that China poses.
13:46Ambassador, my final question, while India-U.S. ties are under strain clearly, there seems to be, which has made us rather uncomfortable and increasing on one army between U.S. and Pakistan.
13:57Now, how do you view the U.S.-Pakistan ties right now and what could be the future geopolitical dynamics of that concerning India?
14:07Well, I think, again, this is this perhaps stems from the controversy over the terrorist attack in Kashmir and Trump taking credit for resolving and lowering tensions between Pakistan and India.
14:19I think a lot of people around the world were concerned about it, I think, obviously, as in as in the case in 2019 in the terrorist attack in Kashmir, where I participated, these were decisions primarily made by India and Pakistan in their own good judgment.
14:35So it's it's important to try and keep this in perspective and to remember that Trump is an aberration in American politics.
14:47And although we've still got three and a half years to go, I concede that that's not necessarily the permanent direction of U.S. policy.
14:56Ambassador, appreciate you taking the time out and joining us. Thank you there. We appreciate your time.
15:01Thank you for having me.
15:05All right, let's quickly move on to the other big development today.
15:09The NDA candidate nominee for vice president filed his nomination.
15:15Vice presidential election 2025 is clearly now South versus South.
15:20Today, like I pointed out, BJP led NDA named Maharashtra governor, former Tamil Nadu BJP president, C.P. Radha Krishnan, as its vice presidential candidate.
15:30Opposition parties have fielded Supreme Court judge Justice B. Sudarshan Reddy from Telangana as its candidate for the upcoming vice presidential elections.
15:39Tomorrow is going to be the nomination of the U.P.A. or rather the opposition candidate.
15:46NDA candidate C.P. Radha Krishnan filed his nomination earlier on Wednesday with Prime Minister Modi by his side as the chief proposer.
15:53Top NDA leaders were also present there showcasing a strong display of unity.
15:58Tomorrow on Thursday, opposition's vice presidential candidate Justice B. Sudarshan Reddy will file his nomination papers and the opposition wants to make a meal of it
16:08where sitting chief ministers of the Congress and opposition parties will come into the national capital.
16:15Even though, if you look at sheer numbers, it is a battle already possibly won by the NDA and it would be Mr. C.P. Radha Krishnan who will be in the chair of the vice president
16:26because numbers stand with the NDA.
16:29The elections come on the 9th of September.
16:32But there is going to be a fair amount of optics involved in all of it.
16:36Let's quickly go through the possible reasons for opposition's vice presidential choice.
16:42Number one, the idea was to bring someone with great credibility who is not from a political sphere.
16:48Number two, choice of justice ready counters NDA's choice of Radha Krishnan that they thought would put Dravidian parties in a bind.
16:56With justice ready in the fray, now Pelangana parties, as per, of course, the opposition would be in a bind.
17:02But viewers, you have the TDP who immediately came out and pled support to the NDA candidate.
17:09You have the YSRCP saying, we've already given our support to Rajanath Singh.
17:12He was the one mediating from NDA and we are not taking our support back.
17:16The BRS has now come up with a conditional support for justice ready where they want urea to be given free in the state of Telangana to farmers by the incumbent Congress government.
17:29So a conditional support base there. The NDA candidate is, if you look at a counter, comes from a strong RSS background,
17:38while the opposition choice comes with a strong judicial background.
17:42If we put Governor CP Radha Krishnan and Justice B. Sudarshan Reddy side by side, measure their individual strengths and weaknesses.
17:48The first point of strength that comes across is, while CP Radha Krishnan is a non-political figure, Justice Reddy is an apolitical figure.
17:57Number two, is CP Radha Krishnan's strong administrative experience?
18:01He has been the Governor of Jharkhand, Lieutenant Governor of Pudducherry, Governor of Telangana, incumbent Governor of Maharashtra.
18:08And Justice Reddy has decades of experience in the legal system.
18:14So we are two very different worlds that they come from, where Justice Reddy has also served as a judge in the Supreme Court.
18:21Next would be their South India connect.
18:23While CP Radha Krishnan is the NDA trump card for Tamil pride, Justice Reddy brings the Telugu identity in the forefront.
18:30Finally, CP Radha Krishnan lacks recognition in a national politics.
18:34He is an RSS and BJP veteran leader, but has faced multiple electoral wins as well as a few defeats.
18:42Justice Reddy, on the other hand, has zero political exposure,
18:46and it could prove to be a bit of a disadvantage for a constitutional rule tied closely with parliamentary procedure.
18:54All right, so there you have it.
18:55Doctor, we've tried to give you both strength SWOT analysis of both of the candidates.
19:02Let's cut across to our quick political face-off for the evening.
19:05Joining me, Sanju Verma, National Spokesperson, BJP, Dr. Shama Mohammed, National Spokesperson.
19:10Congress, you will both get a two-minute time to put your point forward.
19:15Dr. Mohammed, I'd like to begin with you.
19:16Many would have thought that this was a great move to have somebody from Telangana
19:23possibly checkmate the TDP and YSRCP like possibly what the NDA did with the DMK.
19:30But there's a huge section, Dr. Mohammed, which says that this is a lost opportunity
19:35because in any case, the TDP and the YSRCP have supported the NDA candidate.
19:40You could have had somebody from Bihar, somebody who's a Dalit,
19:43somebody who comes from the EBC quota.
19:45Well, let's understand one thing.
19:50Their candidate is an RSS man, a former BJP president of Tamil Nadu.
19:57So we can understand that he will be completely supporting the Bhatia Janta Party
20:02and the government in parliament.
20:04This particular person believes in Manu Smiti.
20:07Whereas our candidate, Darshan Rediji, is a former chief justice.
20:13He upholds the constitution.
20:15He believes in equality, justice and inclusivity.
20:19We know that at this point of time, the integrity of all our institutions are in danger.
20:27ED, CBI, NIA, IT, everything is taken over by this government, including the election commission.
20:34That time, we need somebody to give gravitas to this particular seat and who is impartial.
20:42That is very important.
20:43We saw the last vice president who suspended around 143 members of parliament at one go,
20:50which has never happened in the history of India.
20:53Bills passed in the DIN.
20:56Constitution, for example, now Constitution Amendment Bill brought in one day before the session is getting over.
21:02Many bills not even passed on to the standing committee.
21:0670 ordinances passed in the past 10 years or 9 years.
21:11Sorry, 7 years they passed 74 ordinances.
21:14So we want a system where it's a democratic system,
21:19where the vice president of this country is non-partisan
21:25and believes in democratic principles and wants to uphold the constitution.
21:29We know the Bhatia Janta Party wanted to cross 400, 400 par.
21:33Why?
21:34Because they wanted to change the constitution of this country.
21:37And we know that for many of their leaders, including the deputy CM of Rajasthan,
21:42had said it on live television.
21:43So we want somebody who's, and we believe that there is a way,
21:49there will be people who will support him.
21:51There is definitely, I mean, he is Andhra's pride as well as Telangana's.
21:56So definitely there's the TDP, YSRCP.
22:01But Dr. Mohamed, the TDP has already said very clearly that they are not supporting the opposition candidate,
22:07that they're going with the NDA candidate.
22:10The YSRCP has made it clear that we've pled support to the NDA candidate.
22:14We stand with the NDA candidate.
22:15I'll circle back to you with the question,
22:17because there is a big opinion that this was a lost opportunity.
22:20In any case, you don't have the numbers in the House.
22:22You would have lost this election.
22:24Optics would have demanded and possibly an election in two months in Bihar could have demanded
22:28you pick up a Dalit or an EBC candidate from Bihar to get the optics right.
22:33I'll come back to you on this.
22:35Let's bring in Sanju Verma if we have her.
22:37Okay, do we have Sanju Verma?
22:38All right.
22:40We're going to get in Sanju Verma, but I'll give you the opportunity, Dr. Shama Mohamed,
22:44to make your point on this.
22:46Wasn't it a better pick to maybe get somebody from the state of Bihar?
22:51You have an election in a month and a half.
22:53You're fighting, you know, on the SIR cause there.
22:58You could have got somebody who's Dalit.
23:00Here you've picked somebody who's from the upper caste.
23:02Yeah, one more thing before I come to that.
23:06I know that Sanju Verma is not here, but after she comes in, I'm not going to be staying
23:09till debate is going to be delayed because of her.
23:12I'll have to leave.
23:14No, she's here.
23:15She's here.
23:15She's here.
23:16My point is that we do not believe in seeing that there is an election coming up.
23:22That is how BJP functions.
23:24They will see there's an election coming up from Haryana.
23:27They will be putting somebody from Haryana.
23:29If there's an election coming from Odisha, they would take somebody from Odisha.
23:33That's the way they function.
23:34What we look at it is somebody who's impartial.
23:36We want somebody who's impartial to sit there, who believe in justice and who believe in inclusivity.
23:43There is no inclusivity anymore.
23:45We always see Muslim bashing in this country, OBCs and Dalits, Dalits, Dalit bashing in this country.
23:52So we want somebody who believes in inclusivity, who believes in justice.
23:57So we are not going to say there is an election over there and play these word bank sort of politics.
24:01We chose the right person at the right time and we believe there is a case for him and there is a probability that he is going to win because we've got the right person in.
24:13All right, ma'am, you have 50 more seconds.
24:15Do you want to use that?
24:17No, no, let us speak.
24:18Okay, fine.
24:19That's very magnanimous.
24:21I want to go and bring in Sanju Parma into this conversation.
24:24Sanju Parma, the fact is many thought that you tried to checkmate the DMK.
24:28You have an election next year, razor sharp messaging there that puts DMK in a spot.
24:35DMK had been asking for representation.
24:37You gave the DMK representation.
24:39Could they deny it?
24:41Well, lo and behold, the same question was put to your closest, Stala and TDP.
24:45So that in itself gets negated, Sanju Parma.
24:49You know, Preeti, first and foremost, my apologies to all of you for being a tad late.
24:53Coming to the, you know, mood question that you asked me, I think first and foremost, let's get one thing very clear.
25:01There is, you know, a membership of 782 members in the Electoral College which will elect the Vice President.
25:08The number that the BJP-led NDA needs is 392.
25:13Now, how many members does the BJP-led NDA have?
25:17It has 426 members vis-a-vis the 392 that are needed, which means we actually have 34 more than what we need if we have to win the Vice President's election.
25:30So the first point is, when it comes to numbers, the BJP-led NDA is going to have a smooth sailing on this count.
25:37CP Radhakrishnan will be the next Vice President of India.
25:40The second point I want to make is this.
25:43Why not somebody from Tamil Nadu?
25:45Is it because of an eye on the 2026 Tamil Nadu Assembly election?
25:49I say no.
25:50But even if the answer is yes, it's wrong in it.
25:53I mean, we are in politics to ensure that, you know, our own people are there in positions of power to ensure that the policies that we believe in, which is basically sabka saath, sabka vikas, sabka vishwas and sabka prayas, those are consummated.
26:07Then, the third point I want to make is this.
26:09BJP-preeti walks the talk.
26:12We ensured that somebody from the minority community, a Muslim called APJ Abdul Kalam became the President.
26:18When the first Dalit President, K.R. Narayanan, was the Congress's candidate, the BJP supported him unconditionally, setting aside ideological differences.
26:29Then look at Draupadi Murmu.
26:31She is the first tribal woman president from the Santhal tribe, from a remote Mayurban district of Kodisha.
26:39Who could have imagined that a Santhali tribal Adivasi woman will be the President of India?
26:44The BJP and the Narendra Modi ensure that an Adivasi becomes the first tribal woman president.
26:50So, we have actually empowered the marginalized.
26:53Your time is up.
26:56I'll go back to Dr. Shamaa Mohamad.
26:58Dr. Mohamad, the fact is, if it was a move, which clearly there is strategic politics involved behind the move,
27:06which was to pick somebody from the state of Telangana.
27:09But it hasn't quite worked, at least would you agree, even if it was symbolic or tokenism.
27:14The TDP, clearly, whoever the mediators were, were not able to build consensus that the TDP support your candidate, a close ally of the BJP.
27:24Neither the YSRCP, even with its handful of MPs, could have sided with you.
27:29It's in opposition in the state of Andhra Pradesh, yet it didn't.
27:33The BRS today, from Telangana, has only given you a conditional offer, which seems improbable for your government to fulfill in Telangana.
27:44Okay, so let me get one thing very clear.
27:46She said, why not a Tamilian?
27:49We have nothing against a Tamilian.
27:51I'm in full respect to the millions.
27:55Of course, for them, for all of us, there's a Tamil Nadu election next year.
27:59But the thing over here is, why an RSS man?
28:03Why a former BJP president?
28:05They could have selected some other Tamilian.
28:07There are many others in Tamil Nadu they could have selected.
28:10They selected a former RSS man so that he's a puppet and he listens to whatever they want to.
28:15And they can function according to what they want.
28:19Now, she mentioned Abdul Kalam.
28:20What is the point of symbolism, Sanju Verma?
28:23When the Prime Minister of India in the last election says, Congress party bahes ko leke musalmano ko denge.
28:31Congress party mangal sutra chin ke musalmano ko denge.
28:35Every other day, you bulldoze houses of Muslims.
28:39You take them and put them behind bars.
28:41There were two cases in Maharashtra.
28:452006, bomb blast and the Malegaon in 2008.
28:48When the result of the 2006 came, Devendra Fattavis was quiet.
28:52And when it came out, he went to the Supreme Court to fight against it while they were acquitted.
28:572008, Malegaon blast, when they were acquitted, since it was Pragyat to acquit, he was quiet.
29:03So what are you saying?
29:04Where have you stood with the Muslims in any way?
29:07We don't want symbolism.
29:08Where have you stood with Dalits in any way?
29:11Dalits are being killed left, right and center in northern India.
29:14They cannot ride horses.
29:16They cannot go to wells.
29:17Where have they?
29:17You have taken away their foresters and given it to the Adivasi foresters have been given to business people.
29:25So where have you protected them?
29:27Symbolism is not what we believe in.
29:30We believe in empowering.
29:31And that's why we have chosen Sudarshan Rediji because he's a former chief justice.
29:36He knows what are the rights of people.
29:39He will be not partisan supporting us or them.
29:44He will be equal.
29:46He will give justice to everybody.
29:48He will...
29:48Okay.
29:49Ma'am, your time is up.
29:50The critique also, Sanju Verma, you say you've picked an OBC.
29:53But the OBC that you have picked is one of the strongest castes right now in Tamil Nadu.
30:00Anna Malai comes from the same caste as Mr. Radhakrishnan.
30:04EPS comes from the same caste as Mr. Radhakrishnan.
30:07So really, this particular segment of the OBC is not backward.
30:11Number two, Sanju Verma, the fact that you say he represents the common man, you have Mr.
30:16Radhakrishnan, who is an astute and an exemplary industrialist and a businessman.
30:22If we get into his business empire, it's a different thing.
30:25Number three, he is a dyed-in-wool RSS Pracharak from the age of 16.
30:31So, when the opposition makes the point that it's the House of Elders, it's the upper house,
30:36you could have chosen anyone from any field, why him?
30:42You know, Preeti, now let me answer everything pointedly.
30:45First and foremost, Shama Mohammed said, you know, Prime Minister Modi undermines Muslims.
30:50What have you done?
30:50You've only intimidated them.
30:52Here are the hard facts for your audience.
30:54Let them be the judge.
30:5531% of Pradhan Mantri Ava's Yojuna allocated for minorities, especially Muslims.
31:0033% of Ayusman Bharat Yojuna allocated for minorities, especially Muslims.
31:0536% beneficiaries of Pradhan Mantri Ujwala Yojuna are Muslim women.
31:1037% beneficiaries of Pradhan Mantri Mudra Yojuna, the world's largest self-employment scheme, are Muslims.
31:16Under Pradhan Mantri Narendra Modi's first term, 3.7 crore children from minority community,
31:22including Muslims, were given scholarships for higher education.
31:25And in Prime Minister Narendra Modi's second term, that number of scholarships to minority children went up to 5.8 crore people.
31:33And in the third term, it will only increase exponentially.
31:36Now the other point.
31:37So what if C.P. Radhakrishnan is a RSS veteran?
31:40C.P. Radhakrishnan was also the Tamil Nadu BJP president from 2004 to 2006.
31:45He is somebody who has organizational experience.
31:49C.P. Radhakrishnan was also two-time parliamentarian from Coimbatore.
31:52So he knows the lay of the land in terms of how the parliament functions.
31:57C.P. Radhakrishnan is also somebody who is a die-hard loyalist.
32:00When in 1999, Jay Alita brought down the BJP-led NDA government, she asked C.P. Radhakrishnan to switch over.
32:08He refused to.
32:09And I say BJP rewards loyalists like C.P. Radhakrishnan.
32:13That is something that needs to be applauded, not condemned.
32:16And the final point is this.
32:18You talk that BJP does not empower Dalits.
32:21Himmat hai.
32:22To Sidhar Amaiya ko Karnataka sa Nikando.
32:25And net Ji Paraneshwara, who is a Dalit, the chief minister of Karnataka.
32:29Remove Revanth Reddy as the CM of Telingana.
32:32And net Malu Bhatti, who is Malu Bhatti, the deputy CM of Telingana and a Dalit.
32:37Himmat hai ka Malu Bhatti ko Telingana ka CM bana ho.
32:40So you need to walk the talk, not the BJP.
32:43All right.
32:44I'm going to give both of you one minute each.
32:46But Sanjuburma, I'll just come in for a rebuttal.
32:48You do know Mr. Dhankar fought an election on a different ticket, not the BJP.
32:52So just loyalty bit.
32:54But I'm going to give both of you one minute each.
32:56Dr. Mohamed, one minute closing comments.
32:59My closing comment is she went on on a rant and she forgot which I was going to point out,
33:05which you already pointed out, that Dhankar is not a loyalist.
33:08So how did you give it?
33:08Because of the Haryana elections.
33:10See, this is how you function.
33:12When there is an election, you will go after that person and then you will.
33:16Now she gave Ankara's data about Muslims, which is a lie after lie after lie.
33:21The worst treated in this country are Muslims today.
33:24Why don't you have a single member of parliament who's a Muslim?
33:26Tell me, give me an answer.
33:27A minister, many ministers, Ashwini Bershnaf, never asked to resign.
33:32Number of rail accidents.
33:34Minister of State, Lakhim Hur Keri happened.
33:37Minister of State, I can't recall his name, not asked to resign.
33:41But of course, only one person has resigned for me too.
33:44And that is MJ Akbar.
33:45So you cannot deny it or always lynched mobs, attacking Muslims, no issue.
33:51Bilkis Banu's rapist.
33:52I mean, nothing bigger than that, released on remission, asked to do Prachar campaign
33:59for the Bharatiya Janta Party.
34:00This is what...
34:01Ma'am, your time is up.
34:04One minute, Sanju Verma, we'll come to you, make your point.
34:07And on that account, Ms. Verma, with what Dr. Mohamed also said,
34:11that Jagdeen Thankar was a political choice.
34:13And there's nothing wrong.
34:14The BJP is not shown off making political choice.
34:17You wear it on your sleeve.
34:19You know, Preeti, this is a very sane debate.
34:22So I don't want to come down to that level, oh, you know, Pratiba Patil,
34:26who was the first woman president, Haruni claimed to fame was that, you know,
34:29she was the chef of Sonia Gandhi.
34:32I don't want to reduce the debate to that level.
34:34But here, I will not be kindly to statement that Muslims are being marginalized.
34:38If they are being marginalized, to some extent, you know,
34:42I think the big problem lies with educated Muslims who do nothing for the marginalized law.
34:48They only sit on television debates and shed copious tears, playing the victim card.
34:53I think educated Muslims need to stop playing the victim card.
34:57People like Shama Mohamed do nothing apart from sitting on television and saying,
35:02learn to fight for your rights.
35:08Stop playing the victim card because you will only empower young Muslim women if you do something for them,
35:14not sitting on television debates and crying like a failed loser, which is what you are.
35:19All right, ma'am, the time is up and I'm going to leave it at that.
35:21Once again, I urge both of you not to get into personal attacks.
35:26It's something which really doesn't cut it.
35:28To be honest, the viewers hate it, but it's your choice.
35:30I'm going to leave it at that.
35:31Thank you, both ladies, for joining us, putting their party perspective forward.
35:34We have a news break coming in.
35:42There's been a video that has emerged of the accused who attacked the Delhi Chief Minister.
35:48This video is dated 19th August in the CCTV footage.
35:52The accused made the video sitting in the office inside the Chief Minister's private residence in Shalimar Baal.
35:58This was not a normal and ordinary attack, but clearly a well-planned attack.
36:03Those visuals you can see of the same gentleman or the man who attacked the Delhi Chief Minister.
36:09Clearly not a gentleman.
36:13All right, so this is the video of the man who attacked the Delhi Chief Minister this morning,
36:20wrecking the area outside the private residence of the incumbent Delhi Chief Minister.
36:25You see him outside her residence and then sitting in the waiting area of the same residence.
36:33What happened?
36:35A shocking breach of security at the Delhi Chief Minister's residence.
36:40Rekha Gupta, the Delhi CM, was attacked during her usual Janssen Y hearing.
36:45India Today now brings you an inside story of that one moment or one minute of horror
36:51that unfolded at her residence and the chilling twist that followed.
36:57Yes, the story is now happening.
37:00So understand, the real change has started.
37:02A routine Janssen Y at the Delhi Chief Minister's residence and then a shocking breach of security.
37:11An attack on Chief Minister Rekha Gupta herself.
37:14The attacker, 41-year-old Rajesh Bhai from Rajkot.
37:27India Today accessed exclusive details of the one minute of horror inside the Chief Minister's home.
37:33Rajesh first approached her with documents.
37:36Then, in a sudden move, he pounced on the Chief Minister.
37:40He pushed the Chief Minister.
37:42He pulled her hair, refusing to let her go.
37:45Cop struck his hand to free her and within moments, he was finally overpowered.
37:50He was also on the land.
37:52I was almost near the land.
37:53I saw the옆 of the clothes, the clothes, the clothes, the clothes, the clothes, the clothes.
37:57He was having no protection to protect directly.
38:00But now, after the security of the body, there was something bad with the CM.
38:04He was doing something bad.
38:05It was so bad.
38:06The dog came in his hand, his shoulder came in his head and his head.
38:11now the big question what was the motive investigators reveal he wanted his jail
38:34relative freed a desperate plea that turned violent but there is another
38:40lair his mother says he was disturbed after the supreme court order on stray dogs
38:45that he has mental health issues violent enough to attack even his own family members
38:51they come in let's go to recommend the color marmere bonica joe gary marini will not be able to
39:00carry it with a moment was a cover nothing product on my room here and then the twist a CCTV footage
39:08dated august 19th showing Rajesh Bhai filming outside the chief minister's personal residence
39:14people have been trying to understand the security lapses the motive behind it whether
39:20it was pre-planned or whether it was in the heat of the moment that he ended up committing that
39:25very attack in itself self-explanatory at this given point that it might actually have been
39:30a pre-planned attack given that he's seen wrecking the area and in depth so and also speaking to
39:37people to grasp what exactly is the area all about to understand the location very well
39:42right outside the Shalimar Bagh residence of the chief minister a chilling wrecky raising the question
39:49was the attack pre-planned then moreover the police now states that contrary to his family's claims
39:56Rajesh has no member in jail the BJP has alleged conspiracy
40:00see
40:03that
40:05The army party leaders have condemned the attack.
40:32For her part, the Delhi chief minister in her first reaction after her attack has vowed that her outrage to the people of the capital will continue despite the physical assault on her.
41:02As the probe deepens and Rajesh remains in custody with attempt to murder charges now filed against him,
41:16one question towers above all.
41:19How safe is the chief minister in her own home?
41:22Bureau Report, India Today.
41:52Gupta Ji has faced, but we've known it to have happened multiple times, even with the earlier chief minister, Arvind Kejriwal.
42:00There is something seriously wrong with the security of the Delhi CM.
42:05What is it?
42:06Well, I don't think something is seriously wrong because, you know, number one, when we talk about security, it's a question of access control.
42:16The access control means that right at the gate, only those people go who are allowed to enter.
42:22This man didn't carry a weapon.
42:24So till that extent, it was perfect.
42:26The second is that because she's a Z, now this is the technical part, being a Z plus protectee, she needed one layer of security before she met anyone.
42:39The problem with all the chief ministers is that they dispense with security around to have a closer interaction with the people.
42:48And that is why it has happened every time.
42:51In Bihar, there was a chief minister who was slapped with coal tar when he went to the Naqshal Belt in front of so many people.
42:58Now, the question is, whenever you have junks and wives like this, and I've attended many, there should always be a rope line strategy.
43:07That means people who are coming.
43:09For example, if this man is suffering from mental health issues, more the reason the CM should be protected because he could have even grabbed her, you know, neck.
43:19So it's a very, very serious and unfortunate thing which has happened.
43:24If you have a rope line, there should be just a distance at least of three to five feet between the person and the CM and the police fellows should be the last line of backup.
43:37In this particular case, unfortunately, the politicians dispense with that and they should never do that.
43:44And even the security man should stand firm.
43:47That is what has exactly taken place and which has resulted in this unfortunate incident.
43:53So, Mr. Razad, you're not making a distinction between other states and Delhi because usually it has seen that Delhi chief ministers, ministers seemingly, and correct me if I'm wrong, sir, have weaker securities than other states.
44:04No, not really.
44:07I mean, CM security all over is basically the same.
44:12It's a Z-plus security.
44:14I mean, and...
44:16You're saying it's the same?
44:17Yeah.
44:17Z-plus category is from the yellow book.
44:20So everything is the same.
44:21It depends how you conduct the security drills and how you do it on the ground.
44:24I'll ask you a quick political question because in all of this, the Yama Army parties jumped in and said, where's the video?
44:30You've already slapped the person with an attempt to murder charge and everyone should have access to the video.
44:36Because earlier on in the times of Arvind K. Jhriwal, whenever he was slapped, he was slapped multiple times.
44:42There was ink sprayed on him multiple times.
44:44The video was readily given out by the Delhi police.
44:47Yeah, I think.
44:49But in any case, who is the CM?
44:52The video should be released.
44:53I mean, if it happens in America, you saw the case of...
44:57Right.
44:59...presidents when something happened like this, it was released.
45:01And I think it should be released for people to see.
45:04All right, Mr. Raza.
45:05Thank you for taking the time out and joining us on this debate, or rather your opinion on it.
45:11Appreciate it.
45:12With that, viewers, it's a wrap.
45:14Thank you for joining us.
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