00:00Okay, this is, as you have heard, a very important historic decision that we are hearing.
00:16And the three different measures, a couple of them just for hearing, and the later last
00:24item will be voted upon.
00:27You can defend either side, but from my point of view, there are so many illegal and also
00:38unethical elements in this attempt by changing this ACA 8 in the Constitution.
00:50And the reason is that we do have already chosen so-called independent citizens redistricting
01:04commission that had been already appointed, and only based upon 2020 election, 2020, the
01:16population census data, the districts have been already drawn, and that was from, to me,
01:29it was very decisive ballots rather than just bear over 50 percent was 61 percent.
01:39So my data was 61.3 percent were approved of the commission.
01:46So I have a total trust on the election redistricting commission.
01:56And the 10-year cycle comes very quickly.
02:00And the preparation for that, and then also the whole process of hearing the citizens' input
02:10input into the process before the final map has been drawn.
02:15It takes a lot of time.
02:17But this one is just for the next three election cycles in reaction as a retaliatory reaction to
02:28other states which you are condemning, and if you follow the same condemnable actions, then Californians
02:38should be condemned by other people.
02:41Why should we follow that same suit and we destroy our good model that we have chosen?
02:50You are talking about defending democracy.
02:54Which side is a better action to defend the fair election redistricting that has been fairly
03:04and approved by citizens, and that cycle is going to be only applied next to three election
03:12cycles?
03:13Who can guarantee that?
03:16So with that statement, I have also some statements and then also some questions to ask
03:24to the, first of all, opposition witness.
03:31Governor Newsom has said that this legislation and the ballot measure have the explicit goal
03:38of electing more Democrats to Congress, right?
03:44That was his statement.
03:46Do you agree that the main purpose of redrawing the maps is to elect more Democrats to the House
03:53of Representatives?
03:54Is that a question for the author?
03:59No.
04:00To the opposition witness.
04:02So yes or no.
04:03Yes.
04:04Yes.
04:05That is the stated purpose is to elect more Democrats.
04:08Okay.
04:09Now that leads me.
04:10May I add something to this?
04:12In all due fairness, none of us were.
04:13Through the chair.
04:14Pardon?
04:15Through the chair.
04:16May I just add something briefly?
04:18Because none of us were actually as citizen commissioners involved in this process.
04:23This would be within your power to request for the rationale and the data to be released so
04:28that we have a clear understanding.
04:30With the commissions, it was very public and transparent what the drivers were.
04:34This is what has been publicly said is that it is to elect more Democrats.
04:38Okay.
04:40And then I'm going to ask Senator Cabaldon, because you are right now speaking on behalf
04:47of the author, it is my understanding that these new maps only take effect.
04:56You stated the answer to that, but I want to reaffirm.
05:00If some of the states re-districts, in other words, our all effort, even if this passes,
05:10will be nullified?
05:12That's correct, Senator.
05:15If these only become effective at any stage in this process, if another state adopts a
05:22new congressional district map that isn't required by a court order.
05:26So, obviously, I'm the only Republican member among the five members of this election committee
05:35in the constitutional amendment.
05:38The vote will be taken place, but I am kind of worried that my single vote is not going
05:45to defend or win.
05:47So, we'll see how it goes.
05:50But if it passes, and the SEA 80 is placed in the ballot measure, and let's suppose that
05:59the citizens approve of that, even then, can you stop it?
06:04Yes.
06:05So, the terms of the constitutional amendment itself that the voters will vote on is what
06:12includes the trigger.
06:13And so, the trigger, if the voters approve it and the trigger isn't polled, then it doesn't
06:20take effect.
06:21So, that would be a condition that the other states will re-district?
06:25Yes.
06:26And that's directly in this measure that the people of California would vote upon themselves.
06:30Oh, okay.
06:31And then, I will move on to, would that mean that these maps will go into effect next year,
06:42even though no state re-district in this year?
06:45So, you said that that is not the case, so it's not going to be triggered, correct?
06:51That's correct.
06:52So, the plain language of the bills and what the voters will vote on is that these will
06:59become operative only if Texas, Florida, or another state adopts a new congressional district
07:05map that takes effect after August 1st, 2025, and before January 1st, 2031, unless that redistricting
07:13is required by a court order in another state.
07:16Oh, okay.
07:17So, how long does this condition last?
07:22If Texas decides to do the mid-decade redistricting because of the court order in two years, do
07:29these maps automatically take effect?
07:31MR.
07:32I see.
07:33The committee chief consultant has wanted to provide a clarification.
07:38No.
07:39No.
07:40Okay.
07:41Yeah.
07:42So, the period that this applies to is August 1st of this year until January 1st of 2031.
07:51After that point, then the commission process that is in the current constitution and is undisturbed
07:57by this measure would recommence after the conclusion of the census.
08:03Okay.
08:04Now, this leads to the next question.
08:08Is this a condition triggered if a Democrat run state redistricts?
08:17In other words, whichever city among the state that that may be, that would be in the ballot
08:26measure, that the trigger class would be embedded in there?
08:29MR.
08:30Yes, that's correct.
08:31The language of this measure is without regard to the partisan makeup of any of the other
08:36states.
08:37It's important to note, no Democratic state has or has been considering independently rigging
08:43the elections or the congressional districts in this way.
08:46So, the practical effect certainly is only, quote unquote, red states because it's only
08:51Texas, Florida and some of their colleagues that have been contemplating this aggressive
08:55action to attack the elections next year.
08:58But yes, the actual language of this measure that would be voted upon by the people would
09:04vote.
09:05So, this is a condition that would be voted upon by the Democrats.
09:06So, this is a condition that would trigger the independent commission in another state,
09:19the redistricts, and it results in a net gainable Democratic congressional seats.
09:24MR.
09:25As I understand, and the committee staff or others want to interject, that's fine, but
09:32none of the other states that have independent commissions, that those commissions are not
09:37authorized to do mid-decade redistricting either, just as ours is not.
09:41So, that hypothetical cannot happen in the absence of a constitutional amendment in other
09:47states.
09:48MR.
09:49Okay.
09:50Under current law, the legislature cannot draw the lines, draw them for the purpose of partisan
09:59gerrymandering, or draw them mid-decade.
10:03MR.
10:04Shouldn't we be asking the people's permission first to do these things, rather than drawing
10:13the lines and then asking the voters to approve our unconditional, unconstitutional actions,
10:25in other words, placing cut before the horse?
10:28MR.
10:29Well, Senator, like you, I served as a mayor for quite a long time, and my experience
10:33has been that voters want us to get to the point, and sending them two or three different
10:39stages when we all know what it is that we are trying to accomplish does not advance democracy.
10:46That in this case, the voters will have all their choices at once to vote on, the authorization
10:52in the Constitution, and the maps themselves.
10:54So, they're able to vote on the abstract question with the actual maps that they can choose
10:58and look at themselves and evaluate them according to those criteria.
11:01The current, the Constitution, let's be clear, the Constitution doesn't say what you said
11:06about the legislature.
11:07What it says is that the legislature can't intervene in the decennial, in the every ten-year
11:12process.
11:13When the Commission is convened after the census, and it draws the maps according to that process,
11:18the legislature may not intervene in that process to do the things that you said or
11:22to impose a party purpose on it.
11:25The Constitution is silent with respect to mid-decade redistricting.
11:30And this measure allows the people to decide if, when, and how that will proceed.
11:35We have other committee members who would like to ask questions and comments.
11:39Senator Choi, we can move right back to you.
11:41Let me come back to you.
11:44Let me allow Senator Umberg.
11:45If he only has one more question.
11:47Would you defer?
11:48I'll defer to him one more.
11:49Okay.
11:50Go ahead.
11:51Vice Chair Choi, you may ask your question.
11:52Yeah.
11:53Are the voters being given the opportunity to see each congressional map on the ballot as well
12:04as opportunity to directly approve each congressional map as promised by the Governor?
12:11Yes.
12:14The voters have already the opportunity to see those maps.
12:18And this is the first time ever.
12:19So there was a decade, I don't remember the year, when the voters voted in a referendum
12:24on district maps previously, once before.
12:27And I remember being a voter in that case, and I thought, how do I get this map?
12:32How do I know?
12:33How do I make sense of it?
12:35This time, there is an interactive map that has been up since last week already for those
12:40maps to be available.
12:41And I want to, you know, emphasize to this point, because we also heard it in the opposition
12:45testimony.
12:46In the Commission's normal process, there is a 14-day period by which those maps, before
12:51they are voted on by the Commission, are available for public inspection.
12:55In this case, the maps have been published, they have been on this committee's website since
13:01Friday, and they will be available for 78 days for public inspection.
13:06And they are available in the most user-friendly form, which is an interactive, web-based map
13:11that we are, that all Californians are used to being able to inspect, as well in every other
13:16form possible, including the 300-page bill that we had last night, for those who love to
13:20look at census tracts.
13:22But these are transparent maps, so that voters can zoom in, see exactly where they live, what
13:27their communities of interest are, and evaluate them on their own when they cast their votes,
13:31whether or not to approve these maps in November.
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