- há 6 semanas
Palestra do historiador Ilan Pappe, proferida na Casa da Cultura Japonesa, da U.S.P., em 05/08/2025.
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00:00Obrigado, o Piecechro,來 foram negócios,
00:14com seus entregrados,
00:17e com suas traduções lá,
00:21e com você, pode vir aqui,
00:25especially those of you
00:27who are not
00:29in the best comfortable place
00:31in the auditorium
00:32I hope I will make it worth a while
00:35even if you are standing
00:37and you are getting squeezed
00:39there. Next time
00:41we will try and get a bigger
00:43hope.
00:45What I would like to do
00:49tonight in this
00:51talk is to
00:53claim something
00:55that I'm sure many of you
00:57are aware of but I think
00:59it's very important
01:00to address
01:02and this is the
01:05historical context
01:07of
01:09what we are
01:11witnessing in
01:13Palestine and Israel in general
01:15and in the Gaza
01:17Strip in particular
01:18in the last two years
01:21you may remember
01:23that immediately after
01:25the Hamas attack
01:26on the 7th of October
01:292023
01:29the United Nation
01:32General Secretary
01:34Guatero
01:34said that he condemned
01:38the attack
01:39but immediately added
01:41that we have to remember
01:43that this was not
01:45done in a vacuum
01:46what he meant
01:48that there was a context
01:50to the attack
01:52Israel immediately reacted
01:54by demanding
01:56that he would be removed
01:58from his position
02:00and not only that
02:02the Israeli government
02:05the Israeli foreign
02:06ministry
02:07its academics
02:09put pressure
02:10especially on universities
02:13in the world
02:15not to mention
02:17the word context
02:19maybe historical context
02:21when referring
02:22to the events
02:24of the 7th of October
02:26or after the 7th of October
02:28in some universities
02:30in the world
02:31it became really absurd
02:33such as in Germany
02:35when there was
02:36an official
02:37letter
02:39sent
02:40to academics
02:41asking them
02:42not to use
02:43the word context
02:44in other places
02:46it was less
02:47less official
02:48and maybe less
02:49outrageous
02:50but it was hinted
02:51that this is something
02:53that irritates
02:54very much
02:55the Israelis
02:56that you can only
02:58talk about
02:58what happened
02:59on the 7th of October
03:00condemn it
03:01and that's it
03:03and from that
03:05you should infer
03:06your moral position
03:08your political position
03:10and so on
03:11so ironically
03:12in many cases
03:14when we are talking
03:16about the historical context
03:17when we are saying
03:19historians are important
03:20for understanding
03:22what goes on today
03:23in Israel and Palestine
03:25I would say
03:26are important
03:27for understanding
03:28what will happen
03:29and maybe even
03:30what should happen
03:32in Israel and Palestine
03:33it's quite ironic
03:35that
03:36it's regarded
03:37in certain places
03:39because of the
03:40Israeli lobby
03:41as something
03:43which equates
03:45anti-Semitism
03:47support for terrorism
03:49and whole
03:50cost denial
03:51but of course
03:54we are in a university
03:55and this is our job
03:57as historians
03:58to give a context
04:00this is not
04:01a revolutionary
04:02action
04:03on our behalf
04:04it's not
04:05a subversive
04:06action
04:07this is not
04:08meant
04:09as a racist
04:10action
04:11against anyone
04:12and definitely
04:14it has nothing
04:16to do
04:16with anti-Semitism
04:18or Holocaust denial
04:19it is something
04:21that only
04:22we can do
04:23because the media
04:24doesn't have
04:25the space
04:25and the time
04:27and the patience
04:28to explain
04:30the historical context
04:31and the politicians
04:34are even less
04:35interested
04:36in such
04:37explanation
04:38so this is
04:40our role
04:41this is our
04:42obligation
04:42is to talk
04:44about
04:44this
04:46context
04:47and the fact
04:48that Israel
04:49is so worried
04:50that we should
04:51do it
04:52tells you
04:53that if we do
04:55our job
04:56correctly
04:57if we tell
04:59that history
04:59as we should
05:00tell that history
05:01the fear
05:03of Israel
05:03is
05:04that people
05:05might still
05:06not justify
05:07everything
05:08what Hamas
05:09has done
05:10but would
05:11understand
05:12where the
05:13outrage
05:14came from
05:14where the
05:15anger
05:16came from
05:16where the
05:18violence
05:18came from
05:19but would
05:20also understand
05:21which is
05:22no less
05:22important
05:23why Israel
05:24reacts
05:25the way
05:26it reacts
05:27ever since
05:27the 7th of
05:28October
05:29through a
05:30campaign
05:30of James
05:31time
05:31otherwise
05:33why should
05:33they worry
05:34of us
05:35talking about
05:36history
05:36so let's
05:39remind ourselves
05:39of that
05:40historical context
05:41this evening
05:41and try to
05:44provide
05:44something
05:46that is
05:47very necessary
05:49even for
05:50those of us
05:51who think
05:52that we know
05:53already a lot
05:54of what's
05:55happening
05:55there
05:56and of course
05:58for those
05:59who are
05:59and are many
06:00of those
06:00in the world
06:01who became
06:02interested in
06:03Palestine
06:04only because
06:05of what happened
06:06in the last
06:07two years
06:09there is
06:14a wider
06:15historical context
06:17there is
06:18a historical context
06:20which really
06:20takes you
06:21to the very
06:22beginning
06:23of the Zionist
06:24project
06:25in Europe
06:26and later
06:27to the Zionist
06:28project
06:28in Palestine
06:29this is not
06:31a distant
06:32event
06:33that has no
06:34relevance
06:35for us
06:35and we are
06:36only talking
06:37about it
06:37because we
06:38are intellectually
06:39interested
06:40no
06:41this is
06:42a formative
06:43period
06:44that helps
06:45to understand
06:46a lot
06:46what goes
06:48on today
06:48and what
06:49might happen
06:50and should
06:51happen
06:51as well
06:52in the future
06:53we have to
06:55remember
06:55where came
06:57the idea
06:57that the Jews
06:59of Europe
07:00and Zionism
07:01only referred
07:02to the Jews
07:03in Europe
07:04in its very
07:05beginning
07:05where came
07:06this idea
07:07that the best
07:08place
07:09for the Jews
07:09in Europe
07:10in the late
07:1119th century
07:12in the time
07:14of enlightenment
07:15in the time
07:17of the
07:19emergence
07:19of democracy
07:20where came
07:22the idea
07:22that the best
07:24place for the Jews
07:25of Europe
07:25who are Europeans
07:26and have been
07:27Europeans
07:27for centuries
07:29the best place
07:31is in the middle
07:32of the Arab world
07:33in a country
07:35called Palestine
07:36without
07:38consulting
07:39the people
07:40of Palestine
07:41whether they
07:42are thrilled
07:43by the idea
07:44of receiving
07:46all the Jews
07:47from Europe
07:48because Europe
07:50thinks
07:51that this is
07:51the best
07:52place for them
07:53and why
07:54did Europe
07:55and when I say
07:56Europe
07:57I mean
07:57European
07:58politicians
07:58European
07:59intellectuals
08:01European
08:01ideologues
08:03why did they
08:04come up
08:05with this idea
08:06because they
08:07felt they
08:08cannot accept
08:09the Jews
08:09of Europe
08:10as equals
08:10some of them
08:13could not
08:15accept them
08:16because they
08:17were racist
08:18and nationalists
08:20others
08:21and this is
08:22important to mention
08:23were evangelical
08:25Christians
08:25who thought
08:27that the
08:28historical role
08:28of the Jews
08:29was not to be
08:30in Europe
08:31but to go
08:32to Palestine
08:32so that this
08:34would precipitate
08:36the coming
08:37of the Messiah
08:37the resurrection
08:39of the dead
08:40and the end
08:41of time
08:42so a mixture
08:44of antisemitism
08:46and religious
08:48evangelical
08:49Christianity
08:51was putting
08:53forward
08:54this idea
08:54to the Jewish
08:55community
08:56we're sorry
08:58in a way
08:59you will never
08:59be accepted
09:00as pure
09:02Europeans
09:03so what
09:04about this
09:05idea
09:05we will help
09:06you to build
09:07a Jewish
09:08state
09:09of course
09:10one can
09:11understand
09:11why they
09:12pointed to
09:13Palestine
09:13both as
09:14Christians
09:15and as
09:16Jews
09:16because of
09:17the biblical
09:17connection
09:18but it's
09:20not surprising
09:21that the
09:22vast majority
09:23of the Jews
09:24in Europe
09:24where this
09:25idea
09:26was for the
09:27first time
09:28publicized
09:29were not
09:30excited about
09:31this
09:31they wanted
09:32to stay
09:33in Germany
09:34they wanted
09:34to stay
09:35in Poland
09:35they wanted
09:36to stay
09:37in Russia
09:37they felt
09:38part of
09:39this country
09:39part of
09:40this civilization
09:41they saw
09:42no reason
09:43to go all
09:44over the
09:45world
09:45to a country
09:47they had no
09:47idea of
09:48going on
09:49there
09:49the language
09:50spoken there
09:51was alien
09:52to them
09:53and although
09:55they talked
09:56about the
09:57holy land
09:57the scripture
09:58talked about
09:59the holy land
10:00it was
10:01a religious
10:03place
10:04not
10:05a geographical
10:06political
10:07place
10:08but
10:10it did
10:11attract
10:12enough
10:13number
10:13of
10:14intellectual
10:15Jews
10:15and
10:18Jewish
10:18leaders
10:19that really
10:20came to
10:21the conclusion
10:22one should
10:22say
10:23this was
10:23the right
10:24conclusion
10:24that
10:25in many
10:27parts of
10:28Europe
10:28Jews
10:29will not
10:29be safe
10:30and of course
10:31what happened
10:32in the
10:33Second World War
10:34proved that
10:35they were
10:35that not
10:37only would
10:38they suffer
10:38from
10:39anti-Semitic
10:40legislation
10:41pogroms
10:43and persecution
10:44they might
10:46suffer from
10:46extinction
10:47which indeed
10:48is what
10:49unfortunately
10:50happened
10:50in Europe
10:51in the
10:52Second World War
10:53but the
10:55incredible
10:55thing is
10:56that
10:57most of
10:58the Jews
10:58still at that
10:59moment
10:59and quite
11:00a lot
11:00of other
11:01people
11:01were asking
11:03themselves
11:03is this
11:05really the
11:05best way
11:06to deal
11:06with anti-Semitism
11:07to take
11:09the European
11:10Jews out
11:10of Europe
11:11and build
11:12a European
11:12state for
11:13them
11:13outside
11:14of Europe
11:15the reason
11:17the reason
11:17this idea
11:18was not
11:18very practical
11:20in many ways
11:21and had a lot
11:23of moral
11:23problems
11:24the reason it
11:26became a
11:26project
11:27was because
11:29it also caught
11:30the eyes
11:31of the British
11:32Empire
11:32as you probably
11:35know
11:35Palestine
11:36until the end
11:37of the First
11:37World War
11:38was part
11:39of the Ottoman
11:41Empire
11:42the Ottoman
11:42Empire
11:43the Ottoman
11:44Empire
11:45during the
11:46First World War
11:47was still
11:48a very
11:49imperialist
11:50power
11:50wishing to
11:52extend
11:52its influence
11:54of the world
11:54into
11:56the Arab
11:57world
11:57and in many
11:59ways
11:59because
11:59many of
12:00the British
12:01leaders
12:01during the
12:03First World War
12:04including
12:05the Prime
12:05Minister
12:06of Britain
12:06David
12:07Lord
12:08George
12:08were
12:09themselves
12:09very
12:10religious
12:11in those
12:12days
12:13they also
12:14wanted
12:15Palestine
12:16not only
12:17as a new
12:17trophy
12:18a new
12:19addition
12:19to the
12:20British
12:20Empire
12:21but
12:22even
12:22some
12:23of them
12:23thought
12:23also
12:24in religious
12:25terms
12:25as
12:26General
12:27Allenby
12:28who
12:28occupied
12:29Palestine
12:30in the First
12:30World War
12:32defeated
12:33the Turks
12:33and took
12:34Palestine
12:35by force
12:35when he
12:36entered
12:37Jerusalem
12:37he said
12:38I'm bringing
12:40back the
12:40glory
12:41of the
12:41Crusaders
12:42those
12:43European
12:44people
12:46who occupied
12:47Palestine
12:47in the
12:4811th
12:49and the
12:4912th
12:50century
12:50we bring
12:52back the
12:53glory
12:53to
12:53Jerusalem
12:54Jerusalem
12:55has to
12:56be
12:56Jewish
12:57and
12:57Christian
12:58not
12:59Muslim
13:00the
13:02idea
13:04of
13:05imposing
13:05a
13:07European
13:07problem
13:08on the
13:09Arab
13:09world
13:10on the
13:11Muslim
13:11world
13:12on the
13:13Palestinians
13:13a problem
13:14they had
13:15nothing to
13:15do with
13:16could only
13:18be sustained
13:19by force
13:20could only
13:21be sustained
13:22by force
13:23and
13:24from the
13:25very moment
13:26the
13:27indigenous
13:27native
13:28people
13:28of Palestine
13:29understood
13:30that
13:31they
13:31are
13:31not
13:32facing
13:32an
13:33immigration
13:33of
13:34poor
13:35Jews
13:35who
13:36came
13:36from
13:37Europe
13:38because
13:38they
13:39were
13:39looking
13:39for
13:40better
13:40life
13:40which
13:41the
13:41Palestinians
13:41wouldn't
13:42accept
13:42but
13:43they
13:43are
13:44coming
13:44with
13:44an
13:44ideology
13:45that
13:46regards
13:47them
13:47the
13:48Palestinians
13:48as aliens
13:50at best
13:51as foreigners
13:52and at
13:53worst
13:53as people
13:54who took
13:55by force
13:55from the
13:56Jewish people
13:57back in the
13:58Roman times
13:59the Jewish
14:00kingdom
14:00the early
14:03Zionists
14:03were talking
14:04about the
14:05Palestinians
14:05as people
14:06who took
14:07illegally
14:08the land
14:10of Israel
14:10and they
14:12saw themselves
14:13as taking
14:14back
14:15what belonged
14:16to them
14:16even if
14:17that belonged
14:18to them
14:182000
14:19years ago
14:20how it
14:24is connected
14:24to what's
14:25happening
14:25today
14:26because
14:27that kind
14:28of
14:28ideology
14:29that kind
14:31of project
14:31is not
14:32unique
14:33to the
14:34Jews of
14:34Europe
14:35and is
14:36not unique
14:36to Palestine
14:37if we
14:39think about
14:40it as a
14:40more global
14:41phenomenon
14:42we can see
14:43its impact
14:44today
14:44the Jews
14:46were not
14:47the only
14:48Europeans
14:49who were
14:50not
14:50welcome
14:51in Europe
14:52there were
14:53a lot of
14:53outcasts
14:55in Europe
14:55people who
14:57were
14:57persecuted
14:58because of
14:59their religion
15:00because of
15:01their economic
15:01situation
15:02because of
15:03their culture
15:04and as you
15:05know
15:05they were
15:06pushed
15:06outside
15:07of Europe
15:07and like
15:08the Jews
15:09they were
15:10looking for
15:11a Europe
15:12outside
15:12of Europe
15:13and they
15:15built a
15:15Europe
15:16instead of
15:17the Europe
15:17that didn't
15:17want them
15:18and they
15:19hold
15:19all of them
15:20including
15:21in Brazil
15:22had the
15:23main problem
15:24that the
15:25Jews
15:26had in
15:26Palestine
15:27they chose
15:28places
15:29where someone
15:30else already
15:30lived
15:31indigenous
15:32native
15:33people
15:33and as
15:35the late
15:35professor
15:37of settler
15:38colonialism
15:39Patrick
15:39Wolf
15:40used to
15:41say
15:41when the
15:42European
15:43settlers
15:44came to
15:45non-European
15:47lands
15:47and found
15:48out
15:49that someone
15:50else lived
15:50there
15:51he said
15:52a logic
15:53of the
15:53elimination
15:54of the
15:55native
15:55was activated
15:56elimination
15:57could be
15:58genocide
15:59as happened
16:00in North
16:00America
16:01it could be
16:02apartheid
16:03in South
16:03Africa
16:04it could be
16:05ethnic
16:06cleansing
16:06as happened
16:07in Palestine
16:08but he also
16:10said something
16:11that resonates
16:12with what's
16:13happening
16:13today
16:14he said
16:15a settler
16:15colonial
16:16move
16:16project
16:17continues
16:18either
16:19until
16:20he totally
16:21succeeds
16:22in eliminating
16:23the native
16:24people
16:25or
16:26it fails
16:27to eliminate
16:28the native
16:29people
16:29and he
16:30finds itself
16:31in perpetual
16:32conflict
16:33with them
16:34and
16:36blackshed
16:36engulfs
16:38everyone
16:38involved
16:39both the
16:40settler
16:40and the
16:41next generation
16:42and the
16:43indigenous
16:43people
16:44and the
16:45next generation
16:45so
16:46in many ways
16:48what we see
16:48in the last
16:49two years
16:49is just
16:50another cycle
16:51of the fact
16:53that Israel
16:54is still a
16:55settler
16:55colonial state
16:56that is unable
16:58to complete
16:58the settler
16:59colonial project
17:00of totally
17:01eliminating
17:02the native
17:03there is
17:04there is a
17:04resistance
17:05there is
17:06by the
17:06native
17:06indigenous
17:07population
17:08and the
17:10bloodshed
17:10is never
17:11limited
17:11to one
17:12side
17:13and never
17:13only
17:14affects
17:14one side
17:15and this
17:17is something
17:17especially
17:19for Europe
17:20to think
17:20about
17:21because
17:22Europe
17:22instead of
17:23offering
17:24the Jews
17:25even after
17:26the second
17:27world war
17:27offering the
17:29Jews of
17:29Europe
17:29when it
17:30was clear
17:31what
17:31anti-semitism
17:32did
17:33which is
17:33the
17:34Holocaust
17:34instead
17:35of 1945
17:37to come
17:37and say
17:38to all
17:39the Jews
17:39of Europe
17:40come back
17:41to Europe
17:42we will
17:43build a
17:44Europe
17:44where it
17:44would be
17:45safe to
17:45be a
17:46Christian
17:47a Muslim
17:47a Jew
17:48doesn't matter
17:49we are the
17:49enlightenment
17:50we are the
17:51civilization
17:52of the
17:52world
17:53instead of
17:54saying
17:54come back
17:55we will
17:56learn from
17:56the second
17:57world war
17:57how to
17:58build a
17:59better world
17:59we have a
18:00declaration
18:00of human
18:01rights
18:01we now
18:02believe only
18:03in democracy
18:04instead of
18:05that
18:05they said
18:07the best
18:07way to
18:08deal with
18:08what we
18:09did to
18:09the Jews
18:10is to
18:11support
18:11even more
18:12the idea
18:13of a
18:13Jewish
18:13state
18:14in Palestine
18:15because in
18:161945
18:17it was
18:17already
18:18clear
18:18that this
18:19is not
18:20just a
18:20project
18:21of Jewish
18:22sectors
18:22this is
18:23a project
18:24of
18:24eliminating
18:25the
18:26Palestinians
18:26and three
18:27years later
18:28in 1948
18:29Israel
18:31ethnically
18:32cleansed
18:33half of
18:33Palestine's
18:34population
18:35destroyed
18:36500 villages
18:37of the
18:381,000 villages
18:39of the
18:39Palestinians
18:40most of
18:40the Palestinian
18:41towns
18:42and massacred
18:43thousands of
18:44Palestinians
18:44in the
18:45process
18:46three years
18:47after the
18:48Holocaust
18:48and Europe
18:49knew
18:50the European
18:51leaders
18:52European states
18:53including the
18:54United States
18:55knew exactly
18:56what was
18:57happening
18:57in 1948
18:58and decided
18:59that this
19:01is still
19:01the best
19:02idea
19:02of how
19:02to deal
19:03with
19:03anti-Semitism
19:04allowing
19:05the Jewish
19:06state
19:07to become
19:08a fact
19:08even if
19:10the price
19:10is the
19:11dispossession
19:12of the
19:12Palestinians
19:13as one
19:14European
19:14politicians
19:15put it
19:15we created
19:17a small
19:18injustice
19:18for the
19:19sake of
19:20correcting
19:20a much
19:21bigger
19:21injustice
19:22and that
19:24is never
19:25a solution
19:26and because
19:28the message
19:29of the world
19:30in 1948
19:31to Israel
19:32was
19:33as far
19:34as you
19:35are concerned
19:36as far
19:37as the
19:38Palestinians
19:39are concerned
19:40and despite
19:42the fact
19:43that we
19:43have now
19:43a new
19:44declaration
19:45of human
19:46rights
19:46despite the
19:47fact that
19:48we have
19:48created
19:49the United
19:50Nations
19:50despite the
19:51fact that
19:52we learned
19:53our lessons
19:53from the
19:54Second World
19:54War
19:55and we
19:55will never
19:56allow the
19:56world to
19:57deteriorate
19:58in a
19:59similar way
19:59despite that
20:00fact we
20:01tolerate
20:02what you
20:04did to
20:04the Palestinians
20:04we know
20:07what you
20:07did
20:07the message
20:08to Israel
20:09was as far
20:10as you
20:11are concerned
20:11you have an
20:12exceptional
20:13status
20:13because we
20:15in Europe
20:15do not know
20:16how to deal
20:17with racism
20:18in general
20:18and racism
20:19towards the
20:20Jews
20:20in particular
20:22this to
20:23my mind
20:24is the
20:25best
20:25explanation
20:26for the
20:27continued
20:28human
20:29healing
20:29political
20:30elite
20:31silence
20:32about
20:33the
20:33genocide
20:34maybe
20:35there are
20:35other
20:36explanations
20:36strategic
20:38economic
20:39the role
20:40of the
20:41Israeli
20:41lobby
20:41but for
20:42me
20:43the most
20:44important
20:44explanation
20:45for why
20:46we cannot
20:47expect
20:48especially
20:49Western Europe
20:49but Europe
20:50as a whole
20:51to take
20:52firm
20:52action
20:53against
20:53the
20:53genocide
20:54because
20:55that
20:55would
20:55mean
20:55taking
20:56firm
20:56action
20:57against
20:57a
20:58European
20:58project
20:59that
21:00would
21:00mean
21:01that
21:01they
21:01are
21:01condemning
21:02themselves
21:03because
21:04they
21:04see
21:04Israel
21:05as part
21:05of
21:06Europe
21:06and
21:07Israel
21:07sees
21:07itself
21:08as part
21:09of
21:09Europe
21:09what
21:10they
21:11didn't
21:11anticipate
21:12in 1948
21:13that
21:15this
21:15nephew
21:16or cousin
21:17of the
21:19European
21:19family
21:20would be
21:20such a
21:21bad
21:21member
21:21of the
21:22family
21:22that
21:24they
21:24didn't
21:24expect
21:25that
21:25they
21:26would
21:26have
21:26to
21:26face
21:27this
21:28kind
21:28of
21:29Israel
21:29they
21:30hoped
21:30somehow
21:31or
21:31they
21:31wanted
21:32to
21:32believe
21:32the
21:32liberal
21:33Zionists
21:33that
21:34despite
21:35this
21:36possession
21:37and
21:37the
21:37cleansing
21:38Israel
21:38would
21:39still
21:39be
21:39a
21:39democracy
21:40would
21:40still
21:41be
21:41part
21:42of
21:42the
21:42European
21:43venue
21:44system
21:45they
21:46find
21:46it
21:46very
21:46difficult
21:47in
21:47the
21:47last
21:48two
21:48years
21:48to
21:48find
21:49the
21:49venue
21:50system
21:50in
21:51the
21:51way
21:51Israel
21:52behaves
21:52not only
21:53towards
21:53the
21:53Palestinians
21:54but
21:55also
21:56towards
21:56its
21:56own
21:57society
21:58so
21:59I
21:59think
21:59that
22:00is
22:00one
22:01context
22:01which
22:02we
22:02have
22:03to
22:03discuss
22:03which
22:05is
22:05the
22:06essence
22:06of
22:06Zionism
22:07as
22:07an
22:07ideology
22:08the
22:09idea
22:10of
22:10the
22:10basic
22:11idea
22:11of
22:11Zionism
22:12that
22:12anti-Semitism
22:13can be solved
22:14only by
22:15imposing
22:17a European
22:18state
22:19on the
22:19Arab
22:19world
22:20at the
22:20expense
22:21of
22:21the
22:21Palestinians
22:22it's
22:22not
22:23practical
22:23it's
22:24not
22:24moral
22:24but
22:25it's
22:25working
22:26because
22:27there
22:27is
22:27a
22:27very
22:28powerful
22:28alliance
22:29that
22:29believes
22:30that
22:30this
22:30project
22:31serves
22:31its
22:32own
22:32interests
22:33this
22:34alliance
22:34is
22:34much
22:35smaller
22:35than
22:36it
22:36used
22:36to
22:36be
22:37because
22:37it's
22:38not
22:38that
22:38easy
22:38to
22:39support
22:39Israel
22:39anymore
22:40and
22:40I'm
22:41optimistic
22:41because
22:42I
22:42think
22:42unfortunately
22:44the way
22:44Israel
22:44progresses
22:45would
22:46make
22:47this
22:47alliance
22:47even
22:48smaller
22:48in the
22:49future
22:50now
22:51there
22:51is
22:51a
22:52more
22:52recent
22:52context
22:53and
22:56this
22:56is
22:56something
22:57again
22:57we
22:57should
22:58talk
22:58about
22:58as
22:58historians
22:59because
23:00it
23:01helps
23:01to
23:01understand
23:02especially
23:03the
23:03situation
23:04in
23:05the
23:05Gaza
23:05Strip
23:06and
23:07this
23:07goes
23:08to
23:08the
23:08fact
23:09that
23:09not
23:10many
23:10people
23:10are
23:10aware
23:11that
23:12there
23:12was
23:13no
23:13Gaza
23:13Strip
23:14before
23:141948
23:15the
23:16Gaza
23:16Strip
23:17the
23:17Strip
23:18is
23:19an
23:19invention
23:19of
23:20Israel
23:20Gaza
23:21was
23:21a
23:21small
23:22town
23:22with
23:23a lot
23:23of
23:23nice
23:24villages
23:24around
23:25it
23:25on
23:26the
23:26road
23:26between
23:27Egypt
23:27to
23:28Turkey
23:30a
23:31very
23:31cosmopolitan
23:32place
23:33where
23:33Jews
23:33Muslims
23:33and
23:34Christians
23:34lived
23:35in
23:35the
23:35same
23:35place
23:36and
23:37Israel
23:37in
23:381948
23:39when
23:40it
23:40began
23:41to
23:41massively
23:42expel
23:43the
23:43Palestinians
23:44it
23:46was
23:46looking
23:46for
23:47destination
23:48for
23:48the
23:48expulsion
23:49so
23:50it
23:50expelled
23:51the
23:51Palestinians
23:51of
23:52the
23:52north
23:52to
23:53Lebanon
23:53and
23:54to
23:54Syria
23:54and
23:55expelled
23:56the
23:56Palestinians
23:57in
23:57the
23:57center
23:57of
23:58Palestine
23:58to
23:59Jordan
24:00and
24:00the
24:00West
24:00Bank
24:01but
24:02there
24:02was
24:03a
24:03problem
24:03with
24:03the
24:03Palestinians
24:04in
24:04the
24:04south
24:05hundreds
24:05of
24:06thousands
24:06of
24:06Palestinians
24:07because
24:08Egypt
24:08did not
24:08allow
24:09Israel
24:09to
24:10push
24:10the
24:10Palestinians
24:11into
24:12Egypt
24:13into
24:13the
24:13Sinai
24:14Peninsula
24:15so
24:15the
24:16Israeli
24:16politicians
24:17said
24:17if
24:18we
24:18can't
24:18push
24:18them
24:19into
24:19Egypt
24:20we
24:21will
24:21create
24:21for
24:22them
24:22a
24:22small
24:22strip
24:23we
24:24push
24:24them
24:24into
24:25this
24:25and
24:26created
24:26a
24:27strip
24:27which
24:28was
24:28the
24:28biggest
24:28ever
24:29mega
24:30refugee
24:31camp
24:31in the
24:32world
24:32260
24:34square
24:34kilometers
24:35and they
24:35pushed
24:36hundreds of
24:36thousands
24:37of people
24:37into that
24:38Gaza
24:39strip
24:4070%
24:42of the
24:42people
24:42who live
24:43in Gaza
24:43today
24:44are
24:44descendants
24:45of those
24:47who were
24:47pushed
24:49into the
24:49Gaza
24:50strip
24:50by Israel
24:50in 1940
24:51there's
24:52another
24:53chapter
24:54in
24:54many
24:55of those
24:56who
24:56were
24:56pushed
24:56lived
24:57in
24:58villages
24:58and
24:59towns
24:59that
25:00were
25:00destroyed
25:01in
25:011948
25:02and on
25:03the ruins
25:04of these
25:04villages
25:05and towns
25:05Israel
25:06built a
25:07settlement
25:07that some
25:09of them
25:09were
25:10attacked
25:10by
25:10Hamas
25:11on the
25:137th of
25:14October
25:142020
25:15it doesn't
25:17justify
25:17what they
25:18did
25:18in those
25:19Jewish
25:19settlements
25:20but it
25:21also
25:21explained
25:22the way
25:22they
25:23perceived
25:23these
25:24settlements
25:25as
25:26built
25:27on the
25:27ruins
25:28of their
25:28own
25:28the
25:29villages
25:29of their
25:30grandparents
25:30and sometimes
25:32even
25:32of their
25:32parents
25:34this is
25:36a very
25:37important
25:37part of
25:37the history
25:38we should
25:39remember
25:39the last
25:40historical
25:41perspective
25:42is more
25:43recent
25:44and it
25:45begins
25:45with the
25:45occupation
25:46of the
25:47Gaza Strip
25:47in 1967
25:49and the
25:49occupation
25:50of the
25:50West Bank
25:51because
25:53the
25:54ethnic
25:54cleansing
25:54of
25:55Palestine
25:56in 1948
25:57was
25:58incomplete
25:59Israel
26:00expelled
26:01only
26:0150%
26:03of the
26:03Palestinians
26:04and took
26:05over
26:05only
26:06nearly
26:0880%
26:09of
26:09historical
26:10Palestine
26:10so half
26:11of the
26:12Palestinian
26:12population
26:13still remain
26:14in Palestine
26:14and there
26:15were still
26:16areas of
26:16Palestine
26:17that were
26:18not part
26:18of Israel
26:19before the
26:21June 67
26:21war
26:22like any
26:24settler
26:24colonial
26:25project
26:26it has
26:27two dimensions
26:28geography
26:29and
26:30immobilism
26:30space
26:31and population
26:32so
26:34Israel
26:34wanted more
26:35space
26:35to have the
26:36whole of
26:37historical
26:37Palestine
26:38but like
26:39settler
26:39colonial
26:40movements
26:40in the
26:40past
26:41they had
26:42this
26:42problem
26:42like
26:42when the
26:43Americans
26:43moved more
26:45and more
26:45to the
26:45west
26:45to the
26:46western
26:46coast
26:47of the
26:47United
26:47States
26:48the
26:48more
26:48you
26:49take
26:49territory
26:50the
26:50more
26:51you
26:51get
26:51the
26:51population
26:52you
26:52don't want
26:53and that's
26:54what happened
26:54in 1967
26:55they got
26:57a larger
26:57number of
26:58Palestinians
26:59under the
26:59rule
27:00than they
27:01had
27:01expelled
27:01originally
27:02from
27:02Palestine
27:03in 1948
27:04and in
27:06the book
27:06that
27:06published
27:08the biggest
27:09prison
27:10on earth
27:10I used
27:11the Israeli
27:12cabinet's
27:12minutes
27:13to show
27:13that in
27:141967
27:15the Israeli
27:16government
27:17for a
27:17moment
27:18said
27:18in order
27:19to solve
27:20this problem
27:21to have
27:21the territory
27:22without the
27:23people
27:23maybe we
27:25should do
27:25what we
27:25did in
27:261948
27:26namely
27:27expel
27:28the people
27:29of the
27:29West Bank
27:30and expel
27:30the people
27:31of Gaza
27:31but then
27:32they decided
27:33against it
27:34because
27:35they understood
27:36that the
27:36historical
27:37circumstances
27:38in 1967
27:39were very
27:40different
27:40from 1948
27:42you could
27:43not rely
27:44on the
27:45world
27:45to say
27:46okay
27:46you can
27:47do it
27:47again
27:471948
27:49was very
27:49unique
27:50in that
27:51respect
27:52so they
27:55came up
27:55with an
27:56alternative
27:57idea
27:57what do
27:58you do
27:59with millions
27:59of people
28:00that you
28:01want the
28:02territory
28:03they live
28:03on
28:04you decide
28:05not to
28:05expel
28:06them
28:06but you
28:08don't want
28:09them to be
28:09included
28:10in your
28:11democracy
28:11because you
28:13believe that
28:14the only
28:14true democracy
28:15is a
28:17Jewish
28:17democracy
28:17Jews always
28:19have to be
28:19the majority
28:20otherwise
28:21there's no
28:21point
28:22in the
28:22democracy
28:23so what
28:24do you
28:24do
28:25if you
28:25don't
28:26expel
28:26then came
28:28the idea
28:29that was
28:29devised by
28:30the Israeli
28:31ministers of
28:32defense
28:33Moshe Dayan
28:34the Israeli
28:35minister of
28:36agriculture
28:36all of
28:38these people
28:38in 1967
28:39were ex-generals
28:41from 1948
28:42they were
28:43very young
28:44generals
28:44in 1948
28:45in the
28:4620s
28:46now in
28:471967
28:48in the
28:4840s
28:49they became
28:49politicians
28:50and they
28:52said we
28:52have a
28:53solution
28:53we will
28:54create the
28:55West Bank
28:55and the
28:56Gaza Strip
28:57as a
28:57mega prison
28:58where we
28:59can control
29:00the people
29:00we will
29:02not give
29:02them the
29:02right to
29:03vote
29:03we will
29:04not give
29:04them the
29:05right to
29:05be elected
29:06we will
29:07give them
29:08no say
29:09in their
29:10own future
29:11and we
29:12will let
29:12them live
29:13their life
29:13if they
29:15are willing
29:15to accept
29:17our strategy
29:17and our
29:19strategy
29:19is
29:20that
29:21parts
29:22of their
29:22land
29:22will be
29:23taken
29:24by us
29:24to build
29:26Jewish
29:26government
29:26and
29:28part
29:29of their
29:30rights
29:31will be
29:31taken
29:32from them
29:32in order
29:33to secure
29:34our
29:35sense
29:37of defense
29:38but otherwise
29:39you know
29:40they can
29:41go along
29:42with
29:42their daily
29:43life
29:44of course
29:45this was
29:47not
29:47accepted
29:47by the
29:48Palestinians
29:48who in
29:49the world
29:49would accept
29:50to live
29:51in a
29:51mega prison
29:52so the
29:53inevitable
29:53already
29:54started
29:54in 67
29:5668
29:56the first
29:57Palestinian
29:58attempt
29:58to fight
30:00against the
30:00occupation
30:01so there
30:03came another
30:03border
30:04ok
30:04if you
30:05don't
30:05like
30:06the
30:06mega
30:07prison
30:07we
30:07offered
30:08you
30:08in 67
30:08we will
30:10suggest
30:11a worse
30:11kind
30:12of prison
30:12with a lot
30:13of punishment
30:14you will be
30:15punished
30:15for not
30:16accepting
30:16what we
30:17suggested
30:18punishment
30:19meant
30:19imprisonment
30:21without
30:21trial
30:22meant
30:23demolishing
30:23of houses
30:24meant
30:26allowing
30:26the
30:27settlers
30:27to
30:28extend
30:28allowing
30:30the
30:30settlers
30:30to do
30:31their
30:31own
30:32violent
30:33attacks
30:33on the
30:34Palestinians
30:34arresting
30:36people
30:36deporting
30:38people
30:38punishing
30:39collectively
30:40villages
30:41and towns
30:42with closures
30:43and curfews
30:45in fact
30:46violating
30:47every law
30:49in the book
30:50of international
30:51law
30:51in order
30:52to punish
30:53the Palestinian
30:54people
30:54for unwillingness
30:56to live
30:56as inmates
30:57without
30:58any basic
30:59civil rights
31:00and human
31:01rights
31:01in the
31:02biggest prison
31:03on earth
31:04as I call it
31:05both in the
31:05West Bank
31:06and the
31:06Gulf Bank
31:07and this
31:08continued
31:08from 67
31:09until
31:102023
31:11so part
31:12of what
31:13we saw
31:13the outburst
31:14in both
31:16in the
31:17West Bank
31:17and the
31:17Gulf Bank
31:18is the
31:19outburst
31:19after living
31:20for 57
31:21years
31:21in a
31:22condition
31:23no other
31:23people in
31:24the world
31:24have ever
31:25experienced
31:26to be
31:27at the
31:27mercy
31:27of the
31:28military
31:29that can
31:29do
31:30whatever
31:30it wants
31:30to you
31:31at the
31:31mercy
31:32of
31:32settlers
31:32not having
31:34any normal
31:35life
31:35not able
31:36to know
31:37whether you
31:37will make
31:38it to
31:38your job
31:39to your
31:39university
31:40to your
31:41school
31:41to your
31:42field
31:43and being
31:44all the
31:46time
31:46under the
31:47sense of
31:47danger
31:48when you
31:49cross a
31:50checkpoint
31:50you don't
31:51know if
31:51you will
31:52make it
31:53to home
31:53or you
31:53will disappear
31:54in an
31:55Israeli
31:56prison
31:57the
31:59mega
32:01prison
32:01of the
32:02West
32:02Bank
32:03was
32:03bad
32:04enough
32:04and
32:05somehow
32:07Israel
32:07succeeded
32:08in convincing
32:10its allies
32:11in the
32:11West
32:12that this
32:13is a
32:13temporary
32:14arrangement
32:15the Israelis
32:16always like
32:17to say
32:18peace is
32:20around the
32:20corner
32:21if there
32:21would be
32:22anyone
32:22we could
32:23talk to
32:24on the
32:24Palestinian
32:25side
32:25but unfortunately
32:26there's no one
32:27we can talk to
32:28on the
32:28Palestinian
32:29side
32:29and therefore
32:30we have to
32:31maintain
32:31this kind
32:32of rule
32:33and it
32:35was very
32:35convenient
32:36to the
32:37United States
32:37and the
32:38West
32:38to say
32:38okay
32:39that makes
32:39sense
32:40so we're
32:40not pressuring
32:41Israel
32:42to change
32:43its policy
32:44towards
32:45the
32:46Palestinians
32:47and then
32:49came the
32:49first
32:49Palestinian
32:50uprising
32:51in
32:511927
32:52then came
32:54the second
32:54Palestinian
32:55uprising
32:56in
32:572000
32:57in
32:58between
32:58that
32:59we had
32:59so-called
33:00peace
33:01process
33:01like the
33:02Oslo
33:02peace
33:03process
33:03which was
33:04not a
33:04peace
33:04process
33:05this was
33:05an attempt
33:06by Israel
33:07allies
33:07such as
33:08Norway
33:08to sell
33:09to the
33:10world
33:10the prison
33:11as a
33:12peaceful
33:13solution
33:13and
33:14the
33:15Palestinians
33:15rightly
33:16rejected
33:17when they
33:17understood
33:18there was
33:19no genuine
33:20wish
33:21either by
33:21Israel
33:22or the
33:22mediators
33:23to really
33:24allow them
33:25freedom
33:26and liberation
33:27from the
33:28mega prison
33:28that Israel
33:29built
33:30for them
33:31and
33:33while Israel
33:34continued
33:35to succeed
33:36with this
33:37policy of
33:38punishment
33:38and giving
33:40some privileges
33:40and then
33:41punishment
33:41really like
33:43the relationship
33:44between
33:45a jail
33:46and its
33:47inmates
33:47in the
33:48West
33:48Bank
33:48it didn't
33:50work in
33:50the Gaza
33:51Strip
33:51it didn't
33:53work in
33:53the Gaza
33:53Strip
33:54for two
33:54main reasons
33:55I think
33:56first of all
33:58Israel could not
33:59convince enough
34:00Jewish settlers
34:00to go to the
34:01Gaza Strip
34:02while 800,000
34:04Jewish settlers
34:05went to the
34:05West Bank
34:06only 5,000
34:07Jews were
34:08willing to
34:09settle
34:09in the
34:10Gaza Strip
34:10so Israel
34:11felt it
34:12doesn't have
34:13an important
34:13presence
34:14there
34:15secondly
34:16the people
34:17of Gaza
34:18lived in
34:18the worst
34:19condition
34:19all over
34:20history
34:21in Palestine
34:21and therefore
34:22were much
34:23more committed
34:24than anyone
34:24else
34:25to resistance
34:26were much
34:28more resilient
34:28than anyone
34:29they were the
34:30heart of
34:30Palestine
34:31the people
34:32of Gaza
34:32were the
34:32heart of
34:33Palestine
34:33they were
34:34the heart
34:34of the
34:34resistance
34:35of Palestine
34:36and it's
34:37not surprising
34:38that is there
34:39in Gaza
34:40that whenever
34:42a political
34:42faction
34:43whether it
34:43was a secular
34:44one or
34:45religious one
34:46whether it
34:46was Hamas
34:47or it
34:48was Fata
34:48if it
34:49did not
34:49deliver an
34:51end to
34:51the suffering
34:52the other
34:53faction was
34:54given the
34:55confidence of
34:56the people
34:56to try
34:57and liberate
34:58Gaza
34:59and Palestine
35:00and this
35:01is what
35:01occurred in
35:022006
35:042007
35:05and Israelis
35:06decided of
35:07another tactic
35:08if we
35:08cannot
35:09control
35:09the jail
35:10from the
35:11inside
35:11in the
35:12case of
35:13the Gaza
35:13street
35:13we will
35:14control
35:14it
35:14from the
35:15outside
35:15and they
35:17started
35:17the siege
35:18and blockade
35:19of Gaza
35:20since 2007
35:21this was
35:22the worst
35:23kind of
35:24the model
35:25of prison
35:25that I was
35:26talking about
35:26this was
35:27not anymore
35:28a prison
35:28this was
35:29a ghetto
35:29this was
35:31a ghetto
35:31this was
35:32not a prison
35:32anymore
35:33this was
35:33much worse
35:34than a prison
35:34since 2007
35:36Israel
35:37decided to
35:37punish
35:38the Palestinians
35:39in Gaza
35:39for continuing
35:40the resistance
35:41to the
35:42early models
35:43of the prison
35:44for choosing
35:45a political
35:46faction
35:47that is
35:48committed
35:49to continue
35:49the struggle
35:50against Israel
35:51instead of
35:52going along
35:52with a faction
35:53that collaborated
35:54with Israel
35:55the Palestinian
35:56authority
35:57so they were
35:58punished
35:59and when they
36:00resisted the
36:01punishment
36:01of course
36:02Israel
36:03reacted
36:04with something
36:05that I don't
36:06know
36:06if happened
36:07anywhere
36:07in the world
36:08remember
36:09Gaza is
36:10260
36:10square
36:12kilometers
36:12it's a very
36:13small part
36:14of the world
36:15and it has
36:16the densest
36:17population
36:182 million
36:19people
36:19what Israel
36:21did
36:21when the
36:22resistance
36:22continued
36:23from the
36:24Gaza Strip
36:24is to use
36:25air force
36:26artillery
36:28navy ships
36:30to bomb
36:31the people
36:31from Gaza
36:32they dropped
36:34more bombs
36:35on Gaza
36:36than were
36:36dropped
36:37on many
36:37cities
36:38during the
36:39second world
36:39war
36:40I don't know
36:41if any one
36:42of you
36:42have experienced
36:43a one
36:44toned bomb
36:45falling
36:46not on his
36:47house
36:47but 3
36:48kilometers
36:49away
36:50from his
36:50house
36:50I experienced
36:53it only once
36:53and this
36:55traumatized
36:56need for
36:57life
36:57now they
36:58experienced
36:59it
36:59three times
37:01since 2007
37:03to 2023
37:05total
37:06carpet bombing
37:08by aeroplanes
37:09by artillery
37:11by tanks
37:12by boats
37:14with artillery
37:15and you know
37:17half of the
37:18population
37:18of Gaza
37:19is younger
37:20than 21
37:21years old
37:22they don't
37:23know any
37:24other reality
37:24the only reality
37:26they know
37:27is living
37:27in this
37:28ghetto
37:28that three
37:29times
37:30was brutally
37:31attacked
37:31with the
37:32most
37:32cutting edge
37:33weapons
37:34that the
37:35world has
37:36and ironically
37:38and cynically
37:38Israel is using
37:40modern weapons
37:42against Gaza
37:43all the time
37:44because it
37:45increases the
37:46sales
37:46of the
37:47Israeli military
37:48industry
37:49people
37:50unfortunately
37:51also in
37:52Brazil
37:52people buy
37:54the Israeli
37:54weapons
37:55because they
37:56were already
37:56experimented
37:57successfully
37:58on human
37:59beings
38:00this is
38:02you know
38:03an inhumanity
38:05that
38:06again
38:08doesn't justify
38:08everything
38:09but explains
38:11to us
38:11the anger
38:12the outrage
38:14of the
38:147th of
38:15October
38:15nothing
38:17that happened
38:18there
38:18I justify
38:19but I
38:19say
38:20let's
38:21have this
38:22this is
38:23even not
38:23an historical
38:24context
38:25I think
38:25this is also
38:26a moral
38:27context
38:27and you know
38:28anti-colonialist
38:34movements
38:35that were
38:36engaged
38:36in decolonization
38:38never
38:39took upon
38:41themselves
38:41to have
38:43a process
38:43of decolonization
38:44that is
38:45nice
38:46it's peaceful
38:47it's
38:49through
38:50giving flowers
38:51to the colonized
38:53and asking
38:53them patiently
38:54to leave
38:55decolonization
38:57is an
38:57ugly process
38:58it's a
38:59messy process
39:00it's a
39:01violent process
39:02because
39:03colonization
39:04is ugly
39:05and colonization
39:06is violent
39:07so don't
39:08expect
39:09decolonization
39:09in Palestine
39:10to be
39:11an event
39:13of quakers
39:13this is
39:15what's
39:16happening
39:16and
39:17this is
39:18very important
39:19to remember
39:20in many
39:22many cases
39:23anti-colonialist
39:24movement
39:25had
39:26events
39:26like the
39:277th of
39:27October
39:28the FLN
39:29that fought
39:30against the
39:31French
39:32occupation
39:33of Algeria
39:34some of the
39:35FLN people
39:36massacred
39:37families
39:38many families
39:39of the settlers
39:40in Iran
39:41in July
39:421962
39:43people condemned
39:45the massacre
39:46but they didn't say
39:48that because of that
39:50the FLN struggle
39:51for independence
39:52is unjustified
39:54and there's so many
39:56other
39:56cases
39:59in history
40:00where of course
40:01as I say
40:02this is a messy business
40:03it can be
40:04very violent
40:06also on the side
40:07of the
40:07anti-colonialist
40:09movement
40:10but that does not
40:11delegitimize
40:12the anti-colonialist
40:15struggle
40:16so I think
40:17what we should
40:19be
40:19saying
40:21in kind of
40:22conclusion
40:22is
40:23that if we know
40:24that history
40:25the deeper history
40:26the more recent history
40:28we
40:29first of all
40:30understand
40:31that
40:32when people
40:33say that the
40:34problem is
40:34the Hamas attack
40:35on Israel
40:36on the 7th of October
40:38or even the Israeli
40:39genocide
40:40of Gaza
40:40they are talking
40:42about the symptoms
40:43of violence
40:44but not about
40:46the origin
40:46of the violence
40:47it's like
40:48treating an illness
40:50through the symptoms
40:51but not knowing
40:52what is the
40:53source
40:54of the illness
40:55so it won't help
40:57the international
40:58community
40:59if its political
41:00leaders believe
41:01that what happens
41:03in Gaza
41:04now
41:04is a great
41:06concern
41:07not only
41:08for the Palestinians
41:09and not only
41:10for the Arab world
41:11and not only
41:12for the Muslim world
41:13but a concern
41:14for humanity
41:15in general
41:16they would have
41:18to deal
41:18with the origin
41:19of the violence
41:22not with the symptoms
41:23of the violence
41:24and in this respect
41:25I'm afraid to say
41:26the two state solution
41:28is dealing
41:29with the symptom
41:30of the violence
41:31and not the violence
41:32itself
41:32the only way
41:34is to face
41:35bravely
41:36you need to be
41:36very bravely
41:37those of you
41:38who are activists
41:38in Brazil
41:39would know
41:40the only way
41:41to face bravely
41:43and to say
41:43we understand
41:45what Zionism
41:46meant in Israel
41:47we understand
41:48the wish
41:49of the Jews
41:50to be equal
41:51to have
41:52maybe even
41:53their own
41:53nationality
41:54but what
41:56it became
41:57on the land
41:58of Palestine
41:59is an ideology
42:00of secular
42:01colonialism
42:02of apartheid
42:03of racism
42:04of ethnic
42:05cleansing
42:06and
42:06Latin
42:07genocide
42:07and this is
42:09something
42:09we don't
42:09accept
42:10not because
42:11we are
42:11anti-Jewish
42:12in my case
42:13self-aging Jew
42:14not because
42:15we do not
42:17understand
42:18what happened
42:19to the Jewish
42:20people
42:20over the history
42:22and in the world
42:23but because
42:24exactly
42:25for the same
42:26reason
42:27that we oppose
42:28anti-Semitism
42:29we oppose
42:30Zionism
42:31that is very
42:32important
42:33and I think
42:34that historical
42:35context like this
42:36would force
42:37eventually
42:39political leaders
42:40in the world
42:41to say
42:42we have
42:43to admit
42:44that the
42:45Palestinians
42:46were totally
42:47ignored by us
42:48we never asked
42:49them from the
42:50very beginning
42:50until today
42:52we never asked
42:53them what
42:53they want
42:54what is their
42:55dreams for the
42:56future
42:56and in fact
42:57they would learn
42:59that if they
43:00would talk to
43:00the Palestinians
43:01they would find
43:03an incredible
43:04people that
43:05despite everything
43:06that happened
43:08to them
43:08in the last
43:09140 years
43:10they are not
43:11moved by
43:12the impulse
43:13of revenge
43:14they are not
43:15moved by
43:17the impulse
43:17of hatred
43:18what they want
43:19is normal life
43:20in their own
43:22homeland
43:22all over the
43:24homeland
43:24with all the
43:25people of the
43:26homeland
43:27including those
43:28who were expelled
43:29and this is
43:30something that
43:31was denied
43:31to them
43:32and unless
43:34we face
43:35the Zionist
43:36ideology of the
43:37state of Israel
43:37not just
43:38its policies
43:38we will never
43:40be able
43:41to help
43:41the Palestinians
43:42to secure
43:43normal and
43:44natural life
43:45like any other
43:46people in the
43:48world
43:48thank you
43:48thank you
43:59thank you
43:59thank you
44:02thank you
44:14Obrigado.
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