00:00Look, this is a revelation that really demonstrates, yet again, that the gloss has really come
00:07off the Uber model. It's worth, before I deal with that, Joe, just looking a little
00:11bit back in history. Uber came into the country in 2012. Governments rolled out the red carpets
00:16to them. They decimated the taxi industry. We were all a little bit blinded by the snappy
00:21new app. And of course, before too long, we realised that we were getting pinged as customers
00:28with surge pricing algorithms. And we've all been there on a Saturday night and paid through
00:35our nose for an Uber ride. No reason for that other than Uber knows that it's a busy night
00:41and they can maximise profits. And the problem is that consumers are getting pinged by the
00:46Uber model, but drivers are as well. Drivers now, we know from a large survey last year,
00:5350 per cent of them being paid below the minimum wage. These are drivers that are treated as
00:58independent contractors. They've got to pay for their car, for their fuel, for their insurances.
01:03They don't get leave entitlements. And they're being worked to the bone. So it's important
01:09that that context is put before the Australian community. If there's anyone that should be
01:13in the gun sites here, it's Uber and the Uber model, which is exploiting consumers and exploiting
01:19drivers, Joe. Yeah, so you've put that in context there. How often does it happen and in what
01:24situations? Well, the reports we've had, the revelations
01:27we've had relate to confined circumstances at airports. And these drivers are doing what
01:34they can to look after themselves and their families. This is obviously not conduct that's
01:40to be condoned, but it's conduct that's entirely explainable in the context of these workers being
01:46underpaid, even the minimum wage in our country. You know, we've become accustomed to the convenience
01:51of Uber, Joe, we all have. And these workers, for example, in COVID were still taking us from
01:58A to B, putting themselves literally on the line before we had a vaccine. So they are some
02:03of the heroes of the pandemic. They are workers who are valuable in our society, but they're
02:08workers that are completely undervalued by an Uber system, an essential monopoly, where
02:13Uber can just slash their rates and they do regularly. And these drivers have no recourse.
02:18Now, last year, Joe, the ALP government put in place a new set of standard setting apparatus
02:25in the Fair Work Commission. And we're in the process of working through with rideshare workers
02:29right now, triggering those new laws to ensure that companies like Uber have to pay a fair
02:35wage to these workers to make sure that they can look after themselves and their families.
02:40So we're on the cusp of change in this industry. And in the meantime, of course, these revelations
02:45are unwelcome. But they are important because they shine a light on what is an exploitative
02:50system for drivers and for consumers.
02:52Yeah. So you say it's happening for a valid reason. But what about the fact that passengers
02:56are effectively getting ripped off in the process?
02:59Well, everyone's being ripped off by the Uber model. If you are out, as I said, on a Saturday
03:05night, you are paying through the nose for no good reason. This is not a normal contract
03:10where you have supply and demand in play. This is just if it's a busy Saturday night, Uber
03:15knows that it can get more money from a consumer. So it jacks up the prices. And that is unhelpful.
03:21It's not what we expect. We're all being taken for a ride, but not the ride we expect, Joe.
03:27It's time for the Uber model to be held to account. And we'll be working with rideshare workers
03:32over the course of the coming months to action these new laws that the Albanese government
03:37put in place to set standards for these workers so they can make a reasonable living for themselves
03:41and their families.
03:42And can you set out for us what a driver would get out of a $20 fare? Just so viewers understand
03:48what's happening. What cut does Uber take?
03:51Well, this is the other problem. Uber's processes are completely opaque. Drivers at their work day
03:58are completely controlled by Uber. Their pay is controlled by Uber. They don't know what
04:03they're going to receive as pay before they take a job. It just ends up in their pay packet
04:08and it's not very much. It's the same situation for consumers. You never know when you hop in
04:13an Uber whether it's going to cost you $10 bucks or $30 bucks. And this is an opaque system.
04:19It's a long time that we reach as a community some type of reform for it. And this unwelcome
04:24news is useful because it shines a light on this exploitative model.
04:28We've got to get it right for the community. We rely on these services. These workers are
04:32doing good stuff for the community. We've got to make sure that they're taken care of
04:35as well.
04:36You said people getting in a cab don't know if they're going to pay $10 bucks or $30 bucks.
04:40The beauty of Uber initially at least was that you would get the fare, and that was better
04:45than a taxi, whereas you could book it and you've paid for it for $15 bucks or whatever
04:50before you get in.
04:51Oh yeah, you know what you're going to pay before you get in. But at any given time, you don't
04:56know whether a trip from the same A to B is going to cost you $10 or $30. And this is
05:02because we've got opaque surge pricing. Uber controls that through algorithms. That's
05:07unfair for the consumer, and it's certainly unfair for the driver who faces unilateral
05:12pay cuts month after month and who can't get enough simply to look after themselves and
05:17their family because they're being paid below the minimum wage. So it's in a high time that
05:22change was made. And it's moments like this that we have to shine a light to make sure
05:26that we get that change in this Uber system.
05:28Yeah, and you've already gone through this a little bit, but just take us through how
05:33you hope to address this. What specific way through the legislation do you hope that drivers
05:39will get a fair cut?
05:41Well, last year the Fair Work Commission was empowered to set standards for gig workers.
05:47And we're in the process of crafting an application with rideshare workers to make sure they get
05:52a minimum wage, to make sure that they've got access to workers' compensation, to make
05:56sure they've got access to superannuation. Those things that other workers in the Australian
06:00community take for granted. And to make sure, Joe, and this is the horrific thing, horrific
06:06revelation for today, to make sure that these workers receive at least the minimum wage.
06:12It's not too much to ask, and we need to make sure that that occurs. So over the coming months,
06:17we'll be making an application to the Fair Work Commission to ensure just that, so these
06:22workers can have a reasonable livelihood for themselves and their families.
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