00:00Well, you take it seriously, but I don't think you over-interpret it.
00:05I think it is not uncommon for new administrations to do reviews into programs of this size and
00:11scale, while somewhat a little bit different, but similarly, in the UK, the Starmer Government
00:17initiated a review, and that review actually resulted in an even stronger commitment to
00:22AUGUS.
00:23So, you know, I think from that point of view, that should not be surprising.
00:27But one should take it seriously with agreements of this size and scale.
00:32It's important to be always making the case, always building the alliance and the relationship,
00:37and always be looking to add value, particularly with the changes in the strategic environment
00:42in which we're operating.
00:43And under the Trump administration, I think there's been a very significant rebalancing
00:48of where they're focusing their effort.
00:50They've been making very clear statements to allies and partners about lifting their level
00:55of investment and their level of contribution.
00:59That was the case certainly in Europe and NATO.
01:02And Australia is no stranger to that.
01:03So I don't think we're sort of isolated in this sense, in terms of the US's interest.
01:08I think we're getting a very similar message that all allies and partners are.
01:12And I think we've got a very good story to sell when it comes to our commitment.
01:16But that commitment must continue to increase.
01:18And so just on that, Elbridge Colby, Pentagon official, the undersecretary for defence,
01:24he has been seen as the one driving this review.
01:27He has also made it very clear, his view, that Australia needs to do more on defence,
01:31as has Pete Hegshef, of course, the defence secretary.
01:33Is that what this review is really about, putting some more leverage or using leverage for Australia
01:39to lift its defence spending?
01:41Well, I think there's certainly a correlation, but I'd make this point.
01:45I mean, Bridge Colby, the undersecretary, was formally, prior to going into that role,
01:50was actually at American Global Strategy.
01:52So I know him reasonably well.
01:54And what Bridge has always really been particularly focused on is the production capability for US
02:01nuclear submarines and whether they can really lift that production rate to where it needs
02:05to get to that would enable them to be able to meet these commitments.
02:09Now, if that were unable to be achieved, and this is an issue that was raised during the
02:13Biden administration as well, by the way, so it's not a new issue, but it's one that
02:18he's raised in the past.
02:19He has initiated this review.
02:21This has not been initiated by the White House or indeed necessarily by the defence secretary,
02:26but it is certainly being done with their full knowledge and support.
02:29And we must engage with it.
02:31On the issue of lifting defence spending as a share of GDP, it's certainly, undersecretary Colby
02:37has certainly made those points.
02:38I've made those points.
02:39Others have made those points.
02:41That's something I believe we should be doing in our own interests and in response to the
02:46escalating sort of environment we have in the Indo-Pacific.
02:50So, you know, there's a way through this.
02:52And I think the US are asking those questions in an alliance.
02:56But AUKUS is a highest common denominator partnership.
03:00There are no passages in AUKUS and Australia is certainly not one.
03:02You point to Elbridge Colby's concern about their industrial base and the ability to produce
03:07enough Virginia-class submarines.
03:09We are committing $3 billion US dollars as part of the deal to help lift that industrial
03:15capacity in the US.
03:17Given what you've just said there about undersecretary Colby's concerns, does that number need to
03:22increase?
03:22Will Australia have to contribute more to that US industrial base?
03:26I don't think that's the number at all.
03:30I think that number is quite unique.
03:32And I would defy anyone to nominate another defence agreement anywhere in the world with
03:39the US, which has the partner investing in the US's defence industry base for production
03:46of submarines.
03:47So I think that actually stands us out.
03:49I think that is a model of relationship that the President would welcome very much.
03:53It shows that we're not passengers.
03:54That won't have to be increased, you don't think?
03:57Well, look, I don't think that's the focus.
04:00I mean, the issue of focus on spending as a share of GDP is the broader capability.
04:05And the broader capability of being able to deliver in other areas, of course, where the
04:10US and other partners will want to rely and incorporate Australia's effort.
04:14Because our defence, our strategic defence, particularly in the Indo-Pacific, depends absolutely
04:21on an alliance network and being able to play our role in that alliance network.
04:25That's where our defence and security comes from.
04:27This notion that I hear the critics of these arrangements and the US alliance thinking there
04:33is some other power out there that can provide that level of engagement and alliance to provide
04:40our security is honestly delusional.
04:43And so being part of this alliance and investing in that alliance and investing in our contribution
04:48in that alliance, which has clearly been lifted now, not just for Australia, but all allies
04:54and partners to 3% plus, that is not a surprise.
04:58And I don't think it's an overestimate of what the capability needs to be.
05:02You're one of the few people who has spoken to Donald Trump about AUKUS.
05:06We have not heard him publicly make clear his commitment to it.
05:10But privately, are you satisfied, are you confident that President Trump is on board for AUKUS?
05:18I've never had concerns about this and I've never had any reason to.
05:22I know there's been lots of speculation about it and a lot of self-fulfilling speculation
05:27about it, or at least seeking to be self-fulfilling.
05:31But that hasn't been my concern.
05:34I mean, there's a review underway.
05:35I think he'll take notice of what Bridge Colby says.
05:39And I think we need to engage with that and make the case again.
05:43Remember, it was during the first Trump administration when, for over a year, we engaged with the officials,
05:51exactly like Elbridge Colby and others within the US institutional defence system,
05:58to convince them of our capability to be able to do this with AUKUS.
06:02And remember, AUKUS isn't just about Virginia-class submarines.
06:06In fact, that's one part of it.
06:08The AUKUS submarines is what the original deal, that is the ones being done with the United Kingdom,
06:14and getting an agreement from the United States for the first time ever since the late 1950s
06:20to share that technology with Australia.
06:22That sits at the heart of the AUKUS deal.
06:24And I don't think there's any suggestion or question over that.
06:28And, of course, AUKUS Pillar 2, which I know Bridge is a big fan of.
06:32I think there's plenty to do with the AUKUS.
06:34We have a lot of people on the U.S.
06:36and in the U.S.
06:38We have all the responsibilities of this.
06:39We have a lot of people around the world,
06:41as well as the U.S.
06:42We should take one off,
06:43but we need to take one off for the same time.
06:45We have to take another key,
06:45and we should take another key.
06:47We are going to take another key in all of our неё.
06:50We should take another big person on the U.S.
06:52As well as you can see,
06:55we should take another key in all the things that are the answers that can´tht.
06:57We should take an opportunity to create a new approach that perfectly,
06:58and we should have an opportunity.
07:00We should have to get rid of it.
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