00:00Speak to the government, shall we? And the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, Pat McFadden.
00:05Good to see you this morning, Mr McFadden. Good morning. Good morning. Let's talk about the welfare
00:11bill, shall we, that limped through the House last night. I mean, it passed, but essentially
00:16Sir Keir Starmer took on his MPs and he lost, didn't he? It's humiliating for him. Has he lost
00:23control of the party? It's been a very difficult process in the last couple of weeks. Very
00:32impassioned debates in the Labour Party about this issue of welfare reform, as there always
00:37are. And where we eventually got to last night was taking forward those elements of universal
00:44credit reform that were in the bill, but taking that very contentious issue of PIP reform and
00:51giving that into a review led by my colleague Stephen Timms, the Disability Minister. He's
00:56an excellent person to do this, a very experienced, deeply compassionate politician, and we'll
01:02have to take that forward in a different way. So how much money are you going to save with
01:08this bill? Have you actually been able to work that out, Pat? There's definitely a financial
01:16consequence to the decision taken yesterday. If you're not saving money from this, it has to come
01:23from somewhere. All of that will have to be taken into the round, along with all the other government
01:29expenditure pressures when we reach a budget later in the year. I'm not going to speculate about that
01:36now, but I do acknowledge there's a financial consequence to the decision reached last night.
01:41And if that financial consequence wasn't the consequence that you want, is there any point
01:47going ahead with this? Yeah, there is, because there are still elements of this which are important
01:55in helping long-term sick and disabled people into work. We are an outlier in terms of the proportion of
02:01people in work today compared to the pre-COVID period when we look at other countries. So there's
02:08something that's gone wrong in the UK and the elements that were passed last night will help to
02:14do something about the, there's almost an incentive at the moment for people to go for the health-related
02:22universal credit element rather than the standard, because the financial gap between them is so big.
02:27There's not enough employment support for people who are on long-term sickness or disability benefits.
02:34We believe with that support more could get into work. So there is a point in going ahead,
02:40but it's been a difficult process. There's no denying that. There's no soft-soaping it.
02:44And with that most contentious element, we now have to take that forward in a different way.
02:50And how is Rachel Reeves going to plug that gap of £5 billion worth in savings, which has now
02:55essentially been lost? Is she going to have to come back with tax rises in the autumn?
02:59Well, I don't want to speculate about the budget. I've acknowledged that the decision taken yesterday
03:06does have a financial consequence. While that is a substantial amount of money, it's in the context
03:13of a much, much bigger government budget that covers all the departments, all the commitments,
03:18not just working pensions. So she will have to take that into consideration in the round,
03:24along with everything else. This is one element, one moving part, if you like, in a budget. But a
03:29budget has a hundred or more moving parts. And what the Chancellor has to do is put them all
03:34together in one package when the time comes. Pat, how would you sum up the relationship now between
03:40backbenchers and the Prime Minister? Is it strained? Is it soured? Is it repairable?
03:46Look, it's been a difficult process, but I believe in being a team. You know, I chaired the election
03:55campaign that concluded almost exactly a year ago. We won that election as a team. The Cabinet
04:02serves together as a team. And even though this has been difficult, it's been fractious at times,
04:07we'll move forward from this as a team as well. It's incredible, though, isn't it? If you think
04:11you're not even a government that's one years old, you're turning one on Saturday. That's your one
04:16year anniversary. But you must be worrying now, realistically, practically, how are you going to
04:21get things passed in the House? I mean, already you've given this message to Labour MPs that any sign
04:29of rebellion or controversy that you will U-turn. You've turned on winter fuel. You've U-turned on the
04:33National Enquiry with grooming gangs. You've now U-turned on this. The Prime Minister himself talking
04:39about islands of strangers and then saying that he regrets that. So you're turning on his own
04:44speeches now. What message are you giving to your party? Look, I think reflection on things is not
04:53a sign of weakness. It's a sign of strength. And there are many nettles being grasped. We have grasped
04:58the netto of planning reform that stopped or slowed down building in this country for years. We're pressing
05:03ahead with new nuclear power stations that have been held up for years. We're starting the turnaround
05:09in the NHS. And today, by the way, we are announcing the biggest expansion in social and affordable
05:15housing for a generation. And all of that's only possible because of the leadership of the Prime
05:21Minister and the Chancellor and the Deputy Prime Minister in putting their shoulder behind the wheel
05:26of those decisions. Yeah. Tell us about these housing plans that you have, because these are very,
05:33very important, Pat. You know, for the country to move forward in terms of, you know, just finding
05:39homes for people in general, finding social homes for the population, which we're very short on.
05:46What are you planning to do that will change things?
05:52Well, in the spending review that took place a few weeks ago, the Chancellor set aside £39 billion
05:58over the coming years to invest in social and affordable housing. And we hope through that to
06:05get 300,000 social and affordable houses. This will make a massive difference to the constituents of
06:14every MP in Parliament. We all have people at our advice surgeries every month, overcrowded,
06:21maybe living with their parents and so on, looking for a council or a housing association flat.
06:27This is a step change in the provision of social and affordable housing. I would say it's one of the
06:33biggest unmet needs in the country. It's very corrosive to people's hopes for their future. So today is a
06:41plan of hope to do something about that in a big, big step change from anything that we've seen for
06:48decades in this area. Well, good luck to you.
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