00:00I'll call on Mr. Westerman for his five-minute of questioning.
00:03Thank you, Madam Chair, and again, thank you to the witnesses.
00:06And Madam Chair, before I ask questions, I would like to recognize that we have Ambassador
00:11Elsie Kansa, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotenary of the United Republic of Tanzania
00:17with us today.
00:19We made a trip to Tanzania last year and saw how the Endangered Species Act that we work
00:25on in this committee affects wildlife management in Africa.
00:30And we also have Ms. Regina Boma, the Deputy Chief of Mission for the Republic of Zambia
00:35with us today.
00:36Thank you all for being here.
00:39Mr. Melito, the uncertainty surrounding the biological opinion for offshore oil and gas programs
00:46as well as other biological opinions is of great concern to this committee.
00:50How would the ESA permitting reforms proposed today, especially the requirement
00:56for retrospective review of modifications made to biops provide more certainty?
01:02Thank you, Chairman Westerman.
01:04It's a great question, and I think fundamentally what the business community needs is certainty
01:09and predictability along with some flexibility to work with the regulators to make sure they
01:13can move forward with the projects.
01:15The whole, you know, debate is around the fact that it's hard to build anything in America,
01:19but your proposed changes serve to address that, and they do it by providing a level of accountability
01:26to agency decisions that currently just doesn't exist while, you know, the current buy-off in
01:32some respects is workable, and we can go out there and operate and produce the energy America
01:38relies upon.
01:38It has some provisions that are problematic to the industry and provide little conservation
01:43benefit to the species.
01:45So retrospective review would enable all the stakeholders to engage with the services in
01:50a more informed way to better fix the buy-off process and make sure that the steps being
01:58taken, a retrospective steps and the modifications are actually going to help restore the species.
02:04Thank you, Mr. Milito.
02:07Mr. Guardado, your testimony highlights the ongoing disputes with NOAA over the critical
02:14habitat designation for Southern California steelhead.
02:17What kind of analysis has Unite of Water done to prove that not only does this species not
02:22exist in your area, but in fact they probably never existed in your area?
02:27And how does providing a clear definition of habitat as it relates to critical habitat alleviate
02:33this issue?
02:34Well, thank you.
02:35Yes.
02:36In the amendments, clarity is key to have a definition of critical habitat when you're
02:40looking at a particular action area, and in that action area you're evaluating the conditions
02:45and the resources to evaluate even if, you know, that particular area can support a life
02:50cycle of the species.
02:52So in our neck of the woods, in Piru Creek, the conditions are very poor.
02:57It's very hot, there's no food, and as a result, it's a reason why having historical documentation
03:03since the late 1800s from biologists from the California Fish and Wildlife and anyone
03:09else that has done any stream surveys, up to current date, not one ocean-run steelhead
03:15has ever been seen, found, caught.
03:19And despite all of this, despite the poor conditions for any survival of steelhead and the fact that
03:24they haven't been there to begin with, the National Marine Fisheries Service digs their
03:28heels in and is requiring us to put fish passage around, through, above our dam.
03:34They've designated critical habitat in an area that's unoccupied, that has been unoccupied
03:41for decades based on historical records.
03:45As a result, we're looking at hundreds of millions of dollars just in mitigation requirements
03:51for that facility alone.
03:53And I think even more importantly, we run the risk of public safety.
03:57We have two very important public safety projects in our Outlet Works and our spillway upgrade.
04:03NIMS is getting in the way of that.
04:05They're obstructing the process of us completing these projects.
04:10And it's not about when, you know, it's not about if an earthquake's going to happen in
04:14Southern California, it's when.
04:16When our outlet works is a project that's trying to take care of some deficient standards.
04:22And if that dam is compromised, people will perish downstream.
04:26So in our region, you know, we don't have an ESA inconvenience issue.
04:32We have a regulatory malfeasance issue.
04:34Thank you, Dr. Roberts.
04:38And first I want to go back to something my friend Mr. Huffman from California said that
04:42I totally agree with the Endangered Species Act has been extremely successful in preventing
04:49extinction.
04:50Nobody denies that.
04:52But our predecessors, when they created the Endangered Species Act, they didn't look at
04:59it only as a defense.
05:01They looked at it as defense and offense.
05:04And if you compare it to a football team, we've got a heck of a defense, 99% efficient
05:09at stopping extinction.
05:10But when you look at the offensive side of it in recovering species, it's dismal.
05:17Only 3% of listed species have ever been recovered and been delisted and only 4% of listed species
05:24are even making positive progress.
05:28Isn't this a sign that we need to better improve incentives for recovery?
05:32That maybe we need to fire the offensive coordinator and put a new offense in and maybe even get
05:37some different players?
05:39And how can capturing the full potential of utilizing 4D as an off ramp to state management
05:44help improve buy-in from public and aid in species recovery?
05:49Well, I think it's critical to have public and state agency buy-in.
05:55The 4D off ramp that's proposed in your bill provides an incentive to landowners and to state
06:03jurisdictions to partner towards those conservation goals.
06:06Because achieving those conservation goals is linked with regulatory relief.
06:12And so I believe that that creates a clear incentive for stakeholders to partner towards
06:18shared conservation goals.
06:21And Madam Chair, before I yield, I would ask unanimous consent to insert into the hearing record
06:27over 30 letters of support for HR 1897.
06:32This includes letters from organizations such as the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Congressional
06:37Sportsman's Foundation, American Farm Bureau, National Association of Counties, National Rural Electric
06:42Cooperatives Association, Zoological Association of America, United Republic of Tanzania, Ministry
06:48of Natural Resources and Tourism, Republic of Zambia, Ministry of Tourism, South Africa,
06:53Chief Director of Biodiversity Management and Permitting.
06:56So ordered.
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