00:00First Minister, the former First Minister and your Cabinet Secretary for Finance and
00:10Welsh Language recently said, and I quote, ëIf youíre asking me if I had a blank sheet
00:15of paper and could just do the things I think needed to be done, we would have fewer hospitals
00:21in Walesí.
00:22He went on further to say, ëWe have too many hospitals and too many bedsí.
00:27Do you agree with those comments, First Minister?
00:29Let me just be clear that we are not going to be closing hospitals in Wales, and what
00:36the Finance Secretary was alluding to was if he had a blank piece of paper, we would
00:41not be starting from here, and that is the case.
00:44I think we are absolutely clear in terms of our strategic health plan.
00:50We want to see a shift back into communities.
00:53We want to see far better use of digital, and weíre also all aware that there are around
00:591,000 people in our hospitals every week who are ready to leave, but they canít leave
01:05because we need that care in the community.
01:08So, shifting that into the community makes sense.
01:11Iím not going to apologise on his behalf, because I support him, because heís right
01:18to sayóheís right to sayóthat shifting resources into the community is what we should
01:24be doing.
01:25Andrew R.T.
01:26Davies AM.
01:27So, First Minister, youíve just said you want to close more hospitals.
01:29Thatís what youíve just said, because you agree withó
01:33Yvonne Smith AM I think you can carry on with your question,
01:42and Iím sure that the First Minister will want to respond as well.
01:46So, Paul Davies.
01:48Paul Davies AM Because you clearly agree with your Cabinet
01:54Secretary that there should be fewer hospitals.
01:56Now, First Minister, you recently appeared on any questions, and you gave a stark warning
02:07that health bosses will not get extra cash for their services if they do not cut waiting
02:12lists.
02:13You went on to say that there needs to be better management by health boards, but, First
02:18Minister, you canít pass the buck.
02:20Your party has been running our Welsh NHS for the last 26 years, and the reality on
02:26the ground, and outlined by the Royal College of Physicians, is that the workforce is burnt
02:32out and the health bosses are not to blame.
02:38Itís clear that you have failed to bring forward the workforce recruitment and retention
02:43plan that our Welsh NHS needs.
02:46With staff morale at an all-time low, do you think it was sensible and rational to once
02:52again blame health boards, while making the situation even worse by threatening to make
02:58real-term cuts to public services?
03:00Yvonne Smith AM Iíll tell you what will be worse, Paul.
03:05Well, first of all, it would be good if you just withdrew the fact that I was very clear
03:10we are not closing hospitals in Wales.
03:12I could not have been clearer, and I am saying it again.
03:18I tell you the other thing is that weíre just about to be discussing this afternoon
03:22a Budget that is suggesting weíre going to put £600 million of additional funding next
03:28year directly into the NHS, and youíre not going to be supporting that.
03:32So, donít you come running to me telling me that we should be putting more money into
03:37the NHS and trying to cut waiting lists when youíre not going to vote for it.
03:40I really think that you need to think very seriously about that, and on top of that,
03:45I think it is important to recognise I am quite happyópart of our job is to hold health
03:52boards to account.
03:53That is what the Health Secretary does week after week, month after month, and, yes, I
03:59think it is absolutely legitimate to ask how it is that some consultants do two operations
04:04a day and some do six.
04:08I think thatís a fair question to ask, and we need more transparency on who is doing
04:13what, how effective they are, and managers have a role in that.
04:17They have a role in making sure that the theatres that we have are used to capacity, making
04:22sure that people turn up on time and deliver on time for the people of this country who
04:28are waiting too long.
04:29Yes, letís hold them to account, but we need to make sure that we provide that funding.
04:35What weíve said, and what the Secretary of Health has said, is that you will get
04:39that £50 million extra funding to bring the waiting list down, but if you donít, youíre
04:44not getting it.
04:45Thatís fair enough.
04:46Andrew R.T.
04:47Davies AM Well, Llywydd, as per usual, thereís zero
04:49accountability from this First Minister and this Welsh Governmentóa Government who, quite
04:55frankly, should be ashamed of their record on the NHS.
05:02Let me remind the Senedd, and let me remind the First Minister, that last month Walesís
05:07latest health statistics were released, and they were truly shocking, First Minister.
05:12Welsh NHS waiting lists havenít just hit record highs, theyíve now hit record highs
05:16for 10 consecutive months.
05:19That is truly shocking.
05:22Patient pathways have now reached over 800,000.
05:25Two-year waits that you as Health Minister promised to eliminate in 2023 and 2024 have
05:32to almost 25,000, yet, in England, this figure is 151, despite Englandís population being
05:39around 20 times higher than ours, and itís a factóand itís a factóthat, under successive
05:45Welsh Labour Governments, there has been a reduction in NHS beds of over 4,000.
05:52So, whether you or the Cabinet Secretary accept it or not, there simply arenít enough beds
05:57to cope with demand.
06:00This really is a matter of life and death, because people are dying unnecessarily the
06:04length and breadth of Wales, families are losing loved ones prematurely, and NHS staff
06:09morale is plummeting.
06:11Under Labour, the Welsh NHS is clearly broken.
06:14So, First Minister, youíve previously outlined your commitment to reduce the number of patients
06:21waiting more than two years to 8,000 by the spring.
06:25Do you stand by that promise?
06:27I think itís really important for us to recognise how much is being done by the NHS, day in,
06:37day out.
06:38There are 2 million contacts every month in a population of 3 million people.
06:43That is a huge amount of work being doneó1.6 million people seeing their GP on a monthly
06:51basis.
06:52These are staggering statistics, and the vast majority of people in Wales are getting an
06:57excellent service.
06:59You talk about the waiting listsólet me tell you about waiting lists.
07:04The diagnostic waits in Wales are going down, the therapies are going down, and do you know
07:09what?
07:10They donít even count those in England, theyíre not even counted in the statistics.
07:14So, weíre being far more honest with the public about what is going on in Wales.
07:19When you talk about beds, let me tell you about beds.
07:22When your Government was in power in Westminster, we had significantly more beds per head of
07:29population than they did in England, and when it comes to staff, we now have more staff
07:34than ever before working in the NHSó12,000 people.
07:39If you look at nurses, itís gone up by 14 per cent compared to where it was three years
07:46ago.
07:47So, I do think itís important that people recognise that we are investing hugely in
07:52our NHS, but, yes, we want to see improved efficiency, and Iím not going to apologise
07:58for that.
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