00:00I was knocking on doors during the election campaign. I met someone on the 3rd Grove Hill
00:20who told me that their children had just lost their school place, they were going to Alton
00:26Conference School, which had closed. They couldn't get into Weymouth because they'd
00:32missed the opportunity. But the reality is that even if there was space at Weymouth,
00:37because they hadn't gone to a state primary school, they wouldn't have got into Weymouth
00:42anyway. So the government really hasn't picked up on that.
00:47Both Damien and Jeremy and indeed Claire have talked about special educational needs, so
00:54I'm going to ask Jonathan Huffington, who is the headteacher at Morehouse, most of you
01:00will hopefully know, it's an independent specialist boys' school in Frensham, to give us his
01:05thoughts.
01:06It's really important that we recognise the diversity of the independent sector. And
01:10this is the problem, isn't it? It's always reported in the press, it's something to
01:15do with private schools, so therefore it seems to me that it's harrowing, possibly Jon's
01:20but it's one of the famous ones. And actually the independent sector offers an absolutely
01:26vital component to our education system. When we have the greatest attendance crisis and
01:35mental health crisis amongst young people in this country, and at the same time we're
01:41trying to say, well it's fine because we've got state secondary schools with 2,000 pupils,
01:46we have to recognise that that system doesn't work for so many children. And if we carve
01:53out the independent sector, then we really have an enormous problem and at the moment
01:58there is no solution to that at all. So there are so many parents who use the independent
02:04sector not through choice, but through necessity. And I don't mean necessarily in specialist
02:09schools, I mean so many schools. Alton School, Alton Commons School as it had to be. You
02:15look at the size of that, the type of environment, the volume of children who are recognising
02:21special educational needs on their pupil roll, and you realise that that's providing an
02:26absolutely vital service for the local area. And that was rescuing families whose children
02:32otherwise perhaps would have been either incapable of attending school or admittedly would have
02:37been a grim experience with very poor outcomes. And surely in this country we are about trying
02:43to provide the opportunity to allow all of our children to achieve the very best that
02:49they possibly can. And the independent sector I think is vital in providing that. But parents
02:55who have no choice about using the independent sector are often, in many cases, absolutely
03:02right on the fine line of whether or not they can make it work. And lots of parents,
03:09I know lots of our parents, some of our pupils are funded by local authorities, quite a large
03:14number, but there is a very large number who fund privately. We have some parents who are
03:19financially perhaps quite comfortable, but we have an enormous number who have perhaps
03:24taken on really quite a lot of personal responsibility.
03:26I don't think when they came up with this plan, I don't think they had thought about
03:30all of these factors. In the first place, the top line making itself is uncertain. So
03:37if you look at the, there's this famous IFS award that everybody is looking to, it's the
03:43whole time. For example, it makes an assumption that only the average pupil ISP is getting
03:49aided schools. It therefore made the assumption that all other public schools have the same
03:54entry as ISP schools, which is nonsense. So there's a lot of uncertainty, even in the
03:59headline of things, let alone the point about netting off 10 years' worth of capital maths.
04:06And most importantly, because we don't know the elasticity of demand and how many children
04:11will be displaced, the biggest offset in fact, of course, is on the cost of the state sector.
04:17And it doesn't look like all of this has really been thought through at all. The other thing
04:22I just want to mention while I've got the conch, I mean, you were right when you mentioned
04:26state primary schools, and Jeremy's absolutely right to talk about the immense progress that
04:32we've made as a country with our schooling overall, the vast majority of which is state
04:37schooling. I mean, to the extent that, you know, education has come from around the world
04:42to hear what the story has been in this country. You very rarely read about it in the British
04:48press, but he's absolutely right. And we do need to keep investing, but this doesn't
04:52do this, right? This is not a provocative tax. I know in the kind of propaganda it says,
05:00give us this and we will give you 6,500 teachers and free breakfast clubs and so on. We've
05:06got about 6,500 teachers anyway. By the way, in the last five years, we recruited 15,000
05:12extra teachers over that period. And already we're rolling out breakfast clubs and mental
05:18health support and all the things it's said to cover. Do they really mean that the revenue
05:24came in at that level?
05:25And I think it's totally wrong. It reminds me exactly of the way Tony Blair abolished
05:32the assisted places scheme, which created enormous opportunities for thousands and thousands
05:39of children who wouldn't otherwise have had them. But I think the broader issue is that
05:43everyone here knows that the most important thing we can do to make our country strong
05:49and successful in the future is to have a first class education system. A first class
05:54education system for everyone. Not just the 7% who go to independent schools, but all
05:59of us. And the opportunity cost you have, if your only two big policies are an addictive
06:06policy or a battle on independent school fees and weakening OFSTED standards by awarding
06:12them down the inspection system, is that you are not then focusing on the really big issues,
06:18which is that whilst we have some of the best university education in the world, there is
06:22still a long way to go for the 50% of school leavers who don't go to university, which
06:27is why the aim of the reforms, for example, on T-levels was so important. That's the area
06:32where we really need to be focusing on. Is the A-level curriculum broad enough? What
06:37can we do to make sure that everyone leaves school with exactly the qualifications they
06:42need in the age of artificial intelligence? And that's why I think it's so disappointing
06:47that they've chosen to make this the focus of their education priorities.
06:52What physically happens if there are no spaces left in any sort of safe school across Surrey?
07:07Any more easy questions for Claire to answer? I'm glad you came down here.
07:15As I said, the council has a statutory obligation to make an offer of a school place to any
07:23parent who applies for one. In a situation like that, there would be a conversation,
07:31I'll phrase it like that, a conversation with the school to take a child. Of course, parents
07:39also have the right of appeal against a refusal of a school place, and that's a statutory
07:48right, and to have your name added to waiting lists because there is natural movement during
07:54the year when pupils do leave. But at the end of the day, no, the local authority has
08:01a statutory obligation to find a place for your child at a school, and to make sure that
08:08if it's at a certain distance, that there is transport to that school place.
08:12So essentially what you're saying, Claire, is that if there's no Surrey place, your child
08:16will be sent outside Surrey? No, we will find a place at a school in Surrey.
08:27Good evening. My name is Patrick Stephens. I am a former student of Moorhouse School
08:34that is now at the University of Winchester. I served as deputy head boy. Moorhouse has
08:42done so much for me over the last nine years. That when I heard of this policy, I knew my
08:50hat to speak now. My question is mainly to Mr Jeremy Hunt. How damaged do you think the
09:00wider economy would be if students rushed into the state schools, they don't learn
09:08very well, they don't end up getting the qualifications that they need, and how much
09:15would be spent on welfare, as well as if students need to be homeschooled, how would
09:21that affect if parents are taken out of their money as well?
09:37Thank you very much. My name is Tanya and I got a daughter at Price Hill School. Our
09:45daughter was in the state sector until second grade school and we were very, very pleased
09:53with the state sector. Unfortunately, when we applied for the secondary school place
09:59to the school where the majority of the class went to, and historically the kids from our
10:03village went to, we didn't get our first choice and the second choice in no way was suitable
10:11for our child for personal reasons. So we decided to go to the private sector, not because
10:19it was 20 grand a year, we don't know what to do with. I'm driving a car which is 14
10:27years old, my husband drives a similar type of car, and we determined to do whatever we
10:34can for our child to educate her in a way which suits her personal needs. And I echo
10:43this lady who asked what would be the prospect of challenging this policy legally? When conservatives
10:51introduced the Rwanda scheme, very quickly there was court order to stop the scheme.
10:59Why this policy is not being challenged legally?
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