00:00I'm Alistair Dalton, the Scotsman's Transport Correspondent at the Ferguson Marine shipyard
00:18at Port Glasgow, where the Deputy First Minister, Kate Forbes, was visiting today a couple of
00:25days after announcing a £14 million government investment to make the shipyard more competitive
00:32and be able to win orders on the open market.
00:36Deputy First Minister, realistically the yard is not going to be able to win these first
00:42seven electric ferries on the open market. Isn't it much more realistic that they all
00:47have a good chance of winning the second chance of three further ferries?
00:52You raise a very interesting point about the work that is right for Ferguson's and at the
00:57right time. My ambition for Ferguson's is to secure this investment, to modernise the
01:04yard over the next year and a bit, and in that time be also seeking to bid for more
01:11work.
01:12Now it will be for them to decide whether or not they put a bid in for this initial
01:17contract. That's up to them. If they do, they will need to think creatively and how
01:23they ensure that they are competitive. But there is an opportunity with the second small
01:27vessel replacement programme for them to consider a bid. I should also say though that there
01:33are other contracts and other options that they are considering in the meantime.
01:37Now I'm not going to break the commercial confidentiality of the choices that they make,
01:43but anyone will know that there are other areas and authorities that are also looking
01:48for boats to be built.
01:50You've been assured by Ferguson Marine Management today that Glen Sannox will be completed by
01:56its latest date of mid-August. Were you also given assurances about Glen Rosa being finished
02:03in September next year?
02:04Well I sought assurances on the timetable of the Glen Sannox and the Glen Rosa. I go
02:11on the basis of those assurances, based on evidence of the progress that they are making.
02:16And whilst they were open about the challenges that they've had, the complexities of both
02:22boats, they were very optimistic about the Glen Rosa because they were able to come at
02:28a much earlier stage in the boat, learn all the lessons from Glen Sannox and ensure they
02:34weren't repeated.
02:35And with these contracts coming to an end and fewer workers involved with them, will
02:39the yard have enough work to continue with its full workforce?
02:44Well this is precisely why I am really encouraged by the advanced conversations that they are
02:53having with BAE Systems. Because one worker talked about these complex units as being
02:58essentially half a ship. So those units will employ some tradesmen more than others. So
03:07with particular work, for example, for welders, that will be a lot of work there. But having
03:14just met with some of the apprentices, we do need to make sure that there's alternative
03:18work, for example, for painters and pipefitters who are more employed in constructing ships
03:25than in constructing the BAE units.
03:28That BAE work sounds significantly larger than the steel work that Focus on Marine has
03:34done for them so far. How soon would you expect that work to start?
03:38Well they've obviously been engaged in a pilot. They are discussing this with BAE Systems.
03:45But my understanding is that BAE Systems have a workbook that is decades long. And that
03:55means that there is significant and substantial work that they need to be able to secure now
04:01and as quickly as possible in order to meet the work that is coming.
04:06And finally, Focus on Marine have been engaged in building some of CalMac's biggest ferries.
04:13The work it's likely to move on to is on a much smaller scale. Doesn't that mean there
04:18will be redundancies which are an unbelievable part of their business plan?
04:21Well, two points if I may. The first is that bear in mind that Focus on Marine have a track
04:27record with building these smaller ships. It's often lost that actually in the last
04:32few years they have delivered, I think if memory serves, three of these small vessels.
04:38So they're able to do it. They're good at it. And that's why I think that they should
04:42carefully consider where and how they bid.
04:45But the second thing is in terms of right sizing or ensuring that the workforce is the
04:51right shape and with the right trades in it, that will be an important decision for Ferguson
04:58management. There's obviously been a lot of agency staff, particularly when a boat
05:03nears completion and they're trying to ensure that it meets the target date. But that will
05:08be a decision ultimately for them. And the unions are heavily involved with those conversations
05:13and I've had conversations with the unions directly about ensuring that the workforce
05:19is the right shape with the right components.
05:23There was a somewhat unexpected twist to her visit. She should have been accompanied by
05:28the Yard's interim chief executive, John Pettigrew, in answering questions from the media.
05:34He was nowhere to be seen and then was brought out in front of the cameras.
05:40He confirmed that the Yard would be putting in a bid for seven new small electric ferries
05:48for CalMac, but he said that he may be competing against foreign Yards which he said would
05:57have unfair advantage by being supported by their governments.
06:02No, frustration's not the word. You listen to the Minister there. I think we need to
06:08invest in this company for the future. I think we need to concentrate on finishing these
06:13ferries right now. Concentrate on getting the workforce to the standard we need to get
06:17for future work. I think we've got to look long term rather than short term. We will
06:22bid for them, we will aggressively bid for them and hopefully we're in the ballpark.
06:26Do you think you've got the experience for it?
06:28100%. 100% we have the experience.
06:30Why should you get this contract though, given the problems that have been building Glen
06:35Sanics and Glen Rosa?
06:37I can't speak to the past. I've been here just over two and a half months. We've made
06:42improvements. We made mistakes in the past. We're lessons learned. You're going to see
06:47those lessons learned going on to Glen Rosa. We're not asking to be given it now. It's
06:52gone. It's not going to be a direct award. We have to bid against, in my opinion, unfair
06:58competition.
06:59Why is it unfair?
07:01Because the countries we're bidding against, we all know that their government is putting
07:08money into those shipyards.
07:10Earlier this week I spoke to a man who used to work here. He only retired a couple of
07:14years ago and he feels that there's a big skill shortage because there are lots of new
07:18apprentices and lots of people at the end of their careers retiring and there's not
07:22that kind of middle ground. Would you agree with that?
07:24I would and we've got to address that. But I would say that's the same in every shipyard
07:30in Britain because there is a huge pool of awards going across the world just of recent.
07:39There's a new frigate program going to start in Saudi Arabia. So they're going to be able
07:43to throw money at people to get them to go there. So it's a problem we all have. We share
07:49conversations with Babcock, we share conversations with BEE on how we're going to bring that
07:54pool together because we're all in the same business. We're the commercial ones, they're
07:59the great ship ones. So we're not in competition with them. So what we've got to do is offer
08:04the young people a sustainable future and that's what this 14.2 is going to give us.
08:08What does the future of this yard look like if you do not win this contract?
08:13We're looking at the overall business plan if we weren't to get this contract. There
08:19is other work out there. Guys, we need to stop focusing on ferries. There are other
08:24ships out there, there's patrol ships out there, there's SOVs out there, there are oil
08:29companies who are willing to come here at a premium, not a huge premium, but they're
08:34willing to bridge the gap between us and the foreign competition.
08:37Just finally, Mr Pettigrew, you mentioned unfair competition or what could be regarded
08:41as unfair competition from some foreign yards. If they were to win the work on these new
08:46ferries instead of this yard, just how would you feel then?
08:50I'd be disappointed.
Comments