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00:18 Of course. I'm Assistant Chief Constable Bec Smith. I'm the Assistant Chief Constable for
00:23 Major Crime, Public Protection and Local Crime in Police Scotland. Emma Cordwell, her family
00:29 and many other victims were let down by policing in 2005. For that, we are sorry. A significant
00:37 number of women and girls who showed remarkable courage to speak up at that time also did
00:43 not get the justice and support they needed and deserved from Strathclyde Police.
00:49 Is it embarrassing that it's taken 19 years to get to this?
00:55 For Emma and her family and many other victims, we let them down and for that we're really
01:00 sorry. We know that a significant number of women and girls showed remarkable courage
01:04 and came forward and they didn't get the justice and support they needed from Strathclyde Police.
01:08 Is it embarrassing that it took 19 years?
01:11 It took time because it was a really complex investigation but we absolutely should have
01:15 done more in 2005 and that's why the reinvestigation was launched in 2015.
01:20 How sorry are you? You say in the statement that the police are sorry about what's happened
01:25 here but just how sorry are you bearing in mind the passage of time that's taken for
01:30 Emma's family to get the justice they've got today?
01:33 We are exceptionally sorry. They were let down, as were many victims in 2005. We've
01:39 completely changed our practices and processes and we've learnt from this and we will continue
01:43 to learn moving forward.
01:44 I think what people don't really understand though, looking at this case, is why when
01:51 the first trial collapsed, Packer wasn't looked at at that stage. There was plenty
01:57 witness statements at that point that pointed the finger towards him. Can you shed any light
02:02 at all on why that wasn't done at that point?
02:07 As I've said, we let people down in 2005, Emma, her family and many other victims.
02:13 I think though that what I'd like to try and hear a little bit more about, if I may,
02:20 is what you have learned though because in the statement you say that you have learned
02:24 from past mistakes. So what have you learned? What is it that you would do differently now
02:30 that was certainly not done then?
02:33 I think one of the most important things is that we absolutely listen to people when they
02:38 come forward. Time is no barrier to justice and I know that's something that's changed
02:42 massively. We have invested a lot of time understanding how violence against women and
02:47 girls affects communities and it's our responsibility to make sure that people feel confident to
02:52 come forward and report to us and that's a huge change in the way that we operate now
02:57 to 2005.
02:58 And what also about the way you talk to your investigation teams about this trial collapsed,
03:07 why was it not that at that point there was not a further look at the evidence, there
03:13 was something that had been missed, why was that just allowed to roll on for so many years?
03:20 I think what I would like to say around that is again, the investigation in 2005 wasn't
03:26 right, we let people down and the reinvestigation in 2015 was exceptionally thorough and took
03:31 an awful lot of time to get to where we've got to today.
03:35 Are there any processes though to do that review a bit sooner, so that it's not just
03:41 the thoughts of one investigation team on what the narrative is in that case? Have you
03:48 learned from that to have that review a lot quicker?
03:53 We would absolutely review cases and we do, exceptionally thoroughly, it's something that
03:58 we do frequently and as I say there is no barrier to justice in terms of time and it's
04:03 something that we will continue to do as an organisation moving forward.
04:07 Do you feel that there were other women who may have been attacked but haven't come forward
04:13 in the time that Packer was at large?
04:16 What I would say in relation to that is if anybody watching this feels that they have
04:22 been a victim, I absolutely encourage them to come forward and talk to us, we will listen
04:27 and they will be believed. As I've said, time is absolutely not a barrier, no matter when
04:32 any sexual offending happened, we will listen and we will investigate.
04:36 Emma Caldwell's family have called for a public inquiry into the original investigation and
04:41 for the officers that were involved in making decisions at the time to be prosecuted. What's
04:46 your reaction to that?
04:48 We would support any judicial proceedings that may come as a result of this, absolutely
04:52 and just in relation to the officer's side, we submitted a report as a result of the Strathclyde
04:57 investigation in 2005 to COPFS.
05:01 Any other questions?
05:04 Thanks very much everyone.
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