Stakeholders with Shireen: Charles Santiago

Free Malaysia Today

In this episode of FMT’s talk show series, “Stakeholders, with Shireen”, Charles Santiago, Chairman of the National Water Services Commission, discusses with host Shireen Muhiudeenwater security issues surrounding access to water in Malaysia.  Shireen is the author of the book “We Are All Stakeholders: Culture, Politics, and Radical Accountability in the Boardroom”, published on April 14, 2023 and available on Amazon.   She is also a fund manager and founder of Corston-Smith and a senior ESG investment professional in Emerging Asia. She is also an FMT columnist.  Free Malaysia Today is Malaysia’s leading bilingual news portal.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  Free Malaysia Today is an independent, bi-lingual news portal with a focus on Malaysian current affairs.    Subscribe to our channel - http://bit.ly/2Qo08ry   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check us out at https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com Follow FMT on Facebook: http://bit.ly/2Rn6xEV Follow FMT on Dailymotion: https://bit.ly/2WGITHM Follow FMT on Twitter: http://bit.ly/2OCwH8a  Follow FMT on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2OKJbc6 Follow FMT on TikTok : https://bit.ly/3cpbWKK Follow FMT Telegram - https://bit.ly/2VUfOrv Follow FMT LinkedIn - https://bit.ly/3B1e8lN Follow FMT Lifestyle on Instagram: https://bit.ly/39dBDbe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Download FMT News App: Google Play – http://bit.ly/2YSuV46 App Store – https://apple.co/2HNH7gZ Huawei AppGallery - https://bit.ly/2D2OpNP  #FMTBusiness #FMT #StakeholdersWithShireen #SwS #CorstonSmith #ShireenMuhiudeen #CharlesSantiago #NationalWaterServicesCommission #Exclusive

Transcript

00:00 (upbeat music)

00:02 - Unprecedented rainfall and water security issues

00:07 make today's stakeholder an important one.

00:09 A former three-term MP,

00:11 he was admired for his hands-on approach

00:13 during a nationwide flooding

00:15 that hit Klang particularly hard

00:17 over Christmas two years ago.

00:19 It gives me great pleasure to speak

00:20 to Charles Anthony Santiago.

00:23 (upbeat music)

00:25 (upbeat music)

00:28 Charles, thank you for being on the program today.

00:43 - It's a pleasure to be here.

00:45 - Today we're gonna be talking about water,

00:47 the importance of it as such a strategic asset

00:50 for so many countries.

00:52 And looking at the global statistics,

00:54 access to clean water is alarming.

00:58 And then if we take it back here to Malaysia,

01:01 we have unprecedented rainfall,

01:03 and yet we have so many communities

01:06 that don't have supply or consistent supply of water.

01:11 So today, could you just start by sharing your views

01:16 on the risk of people not having access to clean water?

01:23 - I think, thanks for raising that important question.

01:27 In my view, water is a fundamental human right.

01:31 It's just a non-negotiable right,

01:33 and governments have a responsibility to ensure

01:36 that people, especially the vulnerable communities,

01:39 have access to drinking water.

01:41 This is really quite important.

01:43 But at the same time, we need to recognize

01:47 that water plays an important role in a variety of ways.

01:51 One, of course, it supports the household.

01:53 Number two, it also supports common areas.

01:57 And number three, it also supports businesses.

01:59 So water needs to be adequately divided

02:03 or adequately shared, if I can use that expression,

02:06 among the different sectors or stakeholders in society.

02:09 So this is challenge number one.

02:11 How do you make that happen?

02:12 Number two, our governments have signed on to SDG goals.

02:17 And the six SDG goals is about water and sanitation.

02:22 So governments, in that sense, have a responsibility,

02:25 a commitment, both at the federal level,

02:27 other than at the international level.

02:29 But as a developing country,

02:30 Malaysia too has a commitment to its own people.

02:33 And in that sense, Malaysia has done a good job,

02:35 a fairly good job in ensuring access to water

02:38 in Peninsular Malaysia is anywhere but 97%.

02:42 And Sabah and Sarawak, I think it's been 90% or 93% access.

02:47 But that doesn't mean that in all the places in the country,

02:51 water is flowing 24/7, though.

02:53 It doesn't mean that.

02:54 There are issues surrounding it, though.

02:56 The second issue that you actually addressed

02:58 is an important one as well.

02:59 It rains.

03:02 It rains and it rains heavy.

03:04 And the rainfall is unprecedented as well.

03:07 - Yes.

03:08 - So, and compared to many years ago,

03:11 the rainfall at a shorter period of time,

03:13 you know, it's much, much more,

03:15 it rains only half an hour,

03:18 but enough to flood the city.

03:19 - Right.

03:20 - It tells you the volume of rain that's coming down.

03:22 And I think what is important to recognize is

03:25 that these are all extreme weather patterns.

03:28 It's very hot, it's, you know, it's very humid.

03:31 And it's also very, it's a lot of rain at the same time.

03:35 At this time, I mean, this very moment, actually,

03:37 it's supposed to be El Nino,

03:39 where we're supposed to go through this drought period

03:42 in Malaysia. - Right, it's dry.

03:43 - But it's raining every other day.

03:45 So something has really gone wrong.

03:47 And this is the thing that we have to recognize.

03:49 The extreme weather patterns, if you want,

03:51 is due to climate change.

03:54 So, and therefore, this is something that we need to capture,

03:57 we need to understand, and we need to plan.

04:00 This is central, though.

04:01 My view is that we understand that there are issues,

04:05 but we are not sufficiently planning for it,

04:07 so that in the next 30, 40 years,

04:09 our, the next generation, or two generations from now,

04:14 will be able to protect itself.

04:16 - Right.

04:16 - So I think this is something that has got to do

04:18 with government priority in Malaysia,

04:21 both the federal as well as the state government priority,

04:24 and also reshaping, or rethinking policies

04:27 that the governments have to be putting forward.

04:29 - Right.

04:30 - One of the things that I actually am trying to push

04:32 is the idea that we need to consider,

04:35 we need to frame the management of water,

04:38 including access to drinking water,

04:41 or access to water in general,

04:43 as a national security priority.

04:47 I think this is really, really important.

04:50 In many countries, as a result of climate change,

04:53 the amount of rainfall has reduced,

04:55 the access to river water has also reduced,

04:58 and therefore, they are looking at shortages

05:00 in their countries.

05:02 We have not come to that stage,

05:04 but that doesn't mean we are not going to hit the,

05:06 you know, in a short time.

05:09 And I think there are already patterns

05:11 that you can see in the country,

05:13 where there are some places in the country

05:15 which are what you can consider water stress.

05:19 You will never think Malaysia is a water stress country,

05:21 but there are parts of Kedah which is water stressed.

05:24 Those, and that phenomenon can spread,

05:29 can move to other areas as well,

05:32 as a result of the changes in climate.

05:34 So therefore, we need to plan.

05:36 So for example, very quick in terms of planning,

05:39 and also allocation of resources,

05:41 for infrastructure development for Sarawak,

05:45 Labuan, as well as Kelantan,

05:48 the government has allocated something like 1.1,

05:51 1.2 billion ringgit.

05:54 But for building the LCS Naval Ship,

05:57 it is allocated anywhere between nine to 11 billion

06:00 over the next years.

06:02 But just, let's flip it, let's flip it and say,

06:05 if $11 billion goes towards infrastructure development,

06:10 or development for more water resources,

06:14 you know, we will be ready to face climate change

06:17 in the next two, three years.

06:18 So I urge the government, I ask the government to rethink.

06:21 You know, we are not going to use naval ships anytime soon.

06:26 I'm not sure where the enemy is

06:27 in this part of the world, though.

06:29 But clearly, we have a challenge called climate change.

06:33 And this is an uncertain, unpredictable enemy, if you want,

06:38 for lack of another way of saying it, though.

06:40 And that's something that we need to give priority to now.

06:44 Because infrastructure development takes time.

06:46 So you have to do it now to have it all ready

06:49 by the next five to 10 years.

06:52 Because you can be assured the weather is going to be harsh

06:57 in all our parts of the world going forward.

06:59 - Right, absolutely.

07:00 - I mean, look at sea level rise.

07:02 People are in denial that Malaysia

07:04 has got no sea level rise.

07:06 But look at the NARIM studies,

07:07 it clearly shows that some parts of Selangor,

07:10 some parts of, you know, Perak,

07:13 and some parts of Johor,

07:14 already are experiencing sea level rise.

07:18 It might not be a big measure,

07:21 but you already can see trends already there.

07:24 But we can't wait for it in the next 30 years

07:26 to do something about it,

07:27 when you've already lost the land.

07:28 - Sure.

07:29 - You have to do it now.

07:30 Water should be made a national security priority.

07:32 More money should be invested

07:36 so that Malaysians are protected.

07:38 The next generation is protected.

07:41 And it's the duty of this generation

07:43 to ensure that the next generation is protected.

07:46 - Right, absolutely.

07:47 - But you know, unfortunately,

07:48 in politics, it's always about tomorrow,

07:50 only the next elections.

07:52 So sometimes this is when, you know,

07:54 our members of parliament,

07:56 our leadership in government,

07:59 has to have this long view.

08:01 And this is really a call for the long view.

08:03 And not only in the area of water,

08:05 but also in other areas.

08:06 - Sure.

08:07 - I think this is something we have no choice.

08:08 We have to work towards it.

08:09 - I mean, if I could just move on to the next area,

08:12 which you touched upon,

08:13 and that is as an investment.

08:16 You know, as a country,

08:17 we're looking for foreign direct investment, FDIs.

08:19 Are there any sectors that can't come into our country

08:23 because we don't have consistent water supply?

08:26 Have you seen anybody who says they want to come in,

08:30 but then when they look at some of our issues,

08:32 which is consistent water supply,

08:34 say, "Well, we can't come in."

08:36 'Cause some sectors are very dependent on clean water

08:41 and consistent supply.

08:43 - Yeah.

08:43 Let me just share with you a recent discussion I had

08:46 with a consultant that was brought in

08:51 by the Federation of Malaysian Manufacturers

08:53 in a meeting with me 10 days ago.

08:57 This company, a European company,

09:00 is planning to invest something like

09:02 seven billion ringgit in Malaysia

09:05 in the next couple of years.

09:06 They are already in the process of putting up the building

09:09 and ready to go.

09:12 Let's put it that way, ready to go.

09:15 But they only can use 10% of their capacity.

09:18 And that is because they don't have water.

09:23 They don't have sufficient water.

09:25 So when I asked them, this particular consultant

09:29 who came to see us with FMM,

09:32 I said, "How come you didn't know that

09:34 "before investing, you need to do your due diligence,

09:37 "your environmental studies, and so on, so forth?"

09:42 He said, "Well, the agency concerned didn't tell us."

09:45 So now they're stuck.

09:46 Now, that's not only them,

09:50 but there are also other companies that are planning to come

09:53 but were curious whether we have sufficient water

09:56 to support them, especially data centers.

09:59 - Right.

10:00 - Data centers are water guzzlers.

10:02 They need cooling processes 24/7.

10:06 And apparently they can't recycle the water

10:09 that they're using at some period of time or something.

10:13 So they need lots of water.

10:15 So there are two data centers in Johor.

10:20 I think there's one company planning, CyberJaya,

10:24 and one company that came to talk to me in Kuala Lunga.

10:28 They want to know whether there's water or not.

10:31 So the question now is that water is also sufficient

10:34 and necessary for investments, for new kinds of investments,

10:38 and number two, for jobs.

10:40 - Yes.

10:41 - And therefore, then you need to think,

10:44 how do you manage this issue?

10:45 Countries have different experiences.

10:52 For example, in India, they use reclaimed water.

10:55 I also think that, I think maybe in Singapore too,

10:58 they might be using the same thing.

11:00 So I think we need to reprioritize.

11:03 So we need to have this broad policy going forward

11:06 in the next five years that industrial production,

11:09 maybe some agriculture practices

11:14 can start using reclaimed water.

11:17 - Right.

11:18 - So we only use processed water,

11:21 potable drinking water for drinking purposes.

11:24 We don't use potable drinking water

11:26 for industrial development.

11:28 So for construction, you can use reclaimed water.

11:31 For industrial use, you can use reclaimed water.

11:33 - They call it gray water, don't they?

11:35 Gray water versus white water.

11:37 They have different levels of water

11:38 that you can use within industry.

11:39 - Yeah.

11:40 So this one, this one in Sanway, it also came to us.

11:43 They too need lots of water,

11:45 and they don't think the present water provider

11:50 can actually give them sufficient amount of water

11:54 for their own use.

11:55 So you can see this scarcity part comes into play,

12:00 especially for businesses.

12:02 - Yeah.

12:03 - Right?

12:04 But as a government and as a regulator,

12:05 we need to figure out where the priority areas are.

12:10 People come first, businesses are there.

12:12 But if there's no businesses, there are no jobs.

12:14 - That's right.

12:15 - So you see, this is a circular kind of a movement now.

12:17 So everybody needs to be supported.

12:19 And how do you do that?

12:21 So you need to have this notion of all of government

12:23 and all of society that works together

12:26 to make sure that households have the water they need,

12:30 sufficient water for themselves,

12:32 as well as businesses have water for themselves.

12:35 So we need to think out of the box.

12:36 We need to look at reclaimed water.

12:38 We need to look at rainwater harvesting.

12:40 And businesses too must begin to invest

12:43 in rainwater harvesting, which they are not.

12:46 And I think this is now the time for everybody

12:48 to move in a certain direction.

12:50 We cannot play the fool anymore with climate change.

12:55 - You know, on one of my company visits,

12:57 I had gone down to see some of our rivers.

13:00 And what I could see was a lot of the plantation waste

13:04 and also chicken farm waste was being dumped

13:07 into the rivers.

13:08 And what was explained to me is that

13:11 the water treatment plants can't treat the water

13:15 if the levels of ammonia are too high.

13:19 And then they have to wait for rainfall

13:20 in order to dilute it before they can treat it.

13:23 And when it's dry, they just have to wait.

13:27 So I just wondered, is that because we're not investing

13:29 enough in our technology for and getting higher level,

13:33 you know, water treatment plants.

13:34 If many of you look in Singapore,

13:35 they are now using wastewater and treating it.

13:39 So I just wondered, is that an area that you would look

13:41 into under your purview?

13:44 - Spence job, for example,

13:46 starts from the intake point of the river.

13:49 So you have demarcation.

13:52 River comes under the ID,

13:55 drainage and irrigation department or JPS.

13:57 So it comes under them.

14:00 And I think, you know, of course we can't look at it,

14:04 we can't divorce it from your intake point

14:06 because intake point is part of the river.

14:08 - Yes.

14:09 - We can see that's your problem,

14:10 is of course our problem as well.

14:12 So I think the problem that we have is today,

14:14 as you clearly point out,

14:16 we have chicken droppings into the river.

14:20 We have plastics in the river as well.

14:22 And then we have what you call

14:24 pharmaceutical pollution as well.

14:26 And then you have sewage pollution as well.

14:29 Our river has now become a garbage bin

14:34 for businesses as well as for households.

14:38 So we dump our household stuff on the drain,

14:40 which takes it to the river,

14:41 and businesses dump their waste into the river as well.

14:45 So this actually calls for, one,

14:48 a massive priority in cleaning up rivers.

14:51 So a lot of money should go to clean

14:54 the water source that we have.

14:57 That will make your cost of treating the water cheaper.

15:01 - Right.

15:02 - Right now it's becoming an expensive affair.

15:04 And the operators are saying

15:06 it's becoming too expensive.

15:08 Because prices are going up

15:10 and they have to pay more to clean the water

15:12 and they have to dilute,

15:13 which even takes even more time.

15:16 So that's one.

15:17 I think also there's a question of enforcement.

15:20 There are existing laws already that says,

15:22 one, you need to have sufficient distance

15:25 from the river to the next industrial development

15:29 or any kind of development.

15:30 But we flaunt it all the time.

15:32 We only talk about it when there's a pollution.

15:35 And after that, it's all forgotten

15:37 and everything is hunky-dory.

15:39 This is wrong.

15:40 That's why I'm saying we need all of this government,

15:43 all government approach,

15:44 which I think is sadly lacking right now.

15:47 We also have to start looking at,

15:49 what do you call it,

15:51 third-party waste providers.

15:53 These are companies whose entire work

15:57 is to actually take a waste product from your factory

16:01 and process it in the way they need to be doing it.

16:06 But there's other companies

16:10 that actually take the waste and dump it into rivers.

16:15 And I've seen it, how it happens.

16:16 - Yeah, yeah, me too.

16:17 - So you cannot allow this unregistered

16:20 third-party waste cleaning companies to run viable.

16:25 So this is again enforcement,

16:27 but enforcement at two different levels.

16:28 One, state enforcement,

16:30 but more importantly,

16:32 the industry itself needs to rein in its own people

16:36 for actually flaunting the law.

16:38 Otherwise, you actually take a private cause

16:41 and socialize it for everybody.

16:43 I mean, the last time it happened,

16:44 the entire state of Sri Lanka was stranded.

16:46 - That's right.

16:48 - And that's not fair.

16:49 Just because one guy did it or one company did it,

16:53 now the entire five million people here are stuck.

16:57 So I think this is where government

16:58 really has to go very hard.

17:00 And industry itself has to rein in its own members

17:04 from violating the laws.

17:07 So you need to ensure, government needs to ensure

17:10 that there's sufficient space between the river

17:12 and the next industrial development area, for example.

17:15 That's number one.

17:16 And number two, waste disposable,

17:18 waste disposable third-party companies

17:23 need to be recognized and registered.

17:26 So if, and also need to be regulated.

17:29 So for example, they will have some kind

17:31 of a monitoring system in their trucks.

17:34 So if the trucks go in a certain direction

17:37 and it stops for one hour,

17:39 then you begin to ask,

17:41 why is that truck stopping for one hour though?

17:44 Because chances are it's unloading something though.

17:46 - But shouldn't be.

17:47 - Yeah, shouldn't be.

17:49 But in Malaysia, it's also possible because of traffic jam.

17:52 But the car is moving, it's moving.

17:54 But the thing is, it's stuck for one hour.

17:56 But sometimes it's just stuck,

17:57 which means that something else is happening.

17:59 - Right.

18:00 - That's what, so you need to monitor that.

18:02 So I think there's so much of technology

18:04 that has come into being,

18:05 it's just that we are trying every way to cut costs.

18:10 And the companies send a cut cost,

18:13 but what it doesn't realize is that cost is transferred

18:16 to the public, it is socialized to the public.

18:18 And therefore that becomes a problem.

18:20 And sometimes your loss maybe is only 1 million

18:23 because you are trying to find the cheaper way.

18:25 But cost to society and government can be 10 million.

18:29 So this is where government's enforcement

18:31 is really, really very important.

18:34 - If I just move, before we go into the public side,

18:37 if we can just talk a little bit about the tourism dollar.

18:40 As you know, tourism is a good foreign exchange earner.

18:45 And one of our biggest issues in the country is hygiene.

18:48 And having tourists come

18:51 and then they go to certain parts of the country

18:54 and then they turn on the taps and the taps have brown water

18:58 and they see buckets where they're washing plates in it

19:02 and it's dirty.

19:04 Malaysia has so many plus points.

19:07 You know, we have beautiful beaches,

19:09 we have wonderful wildlife, we have great food.

19:13 - Sure.

19:14 - How can we try to instill this, you know,

19:17 ensure that we can have clean water

19:20 to improve our overall hygiene levels?

19:23 - If you ask that question to an operator,

19:25 he or she will tell you that as far as they're concerned,

19:30 water that comes out of the treatment plants

19:33 and that comes right in front of your house,

19:36 that water is clean water.

19:38 And sometimes the problem is actually,

19:41 it is within the house itself.

19:43 - Oh, the pipes.

19:44 - The pipes.

19:45 So sometimes I say that is where the problem lies.

19:47 - Okay.

19:48 - That's how an operator will explain it.

19:51 But if you ask consumers, they will say,

19:53 "It makes no sense.

19:56 "I just bought a house in less than one year,

19:59 "I'm having this problem."

20:01 So you mean to say the pipes in between,

20:03 you know, the main intake, the main outside my house,

20:06 up to the sun has corroded within one year.

20:09 So it's, both have their arguments to make.

20:14 And I think basically this is where

20:16 we need to be vigilant, though.

20:18 We need to be vigilant.

20:19 And that is why I think there must be

20:21 some kind of a societal audit on the operator itself.

20:25 And there are many ways of doing that.

20:27 So for example, if I can suggest,

20:29 like I just received a letter from urban consumer

20:34 representing a whole variety of people in his area,

20:41 including big businesses and so on.

20:43 Why is there a water problem in that place?

20:47 So, and my view is I want to respond to that.

20:51 So we wrote to Aislingo and said,

20:55 "Hey, can you please explain this?"

20:57 Aislingo explained it.

20:59 So what I'm going to do now is

21:00 I'm going to bring both of them together.

21:02 Let's see how--

21:03 - Try and sort it out.

21:04 - Let's see whether we understand what's happening now.

21:07 And the whole point is not to find fault,

21:10 but to solve the problem.

21:11 - Exactly.

21:11 - To solve the problem.

21:12 And there are many problems that can be solved

21:14 just by talking to each other,

21:16 sitting with each other and resolving the problem.

21:19 And I think operators should be transparent

21:22 and people also should understand

21:24 that some things take time.

21:25 When you repair, for example, it takes time.

21:28 But also I think, you know,

21:29 since we're talking about pollution and waste,

21:34 wasting water, if you go to sometimes

21:37 our government departments, even the private sector,

21:40 the water will be leaking.

21:41 If you go into the bathrooms,

21:42 you know, the--

21:44 - It's dripping.

21:45 - It's dripping.

21:47 So I think that is why I think you need to ensure

21:51 that a water audit is done in almost every building.

21:55 Households should do it in their own house,

21:59 whether it's a small house or a big house.

22:01 Factories should be doing it.

22:03 Companies all should be doing it.

22:05 And I say that because this issue of water

22:08 is going to come back to bite us in a very big way.

22:11 So if we don't conserve now,

22:13 we're going to pay the price.

22:14 If, you know, businessmen might think,

22:16 oh, water is so cheap, it's not a big issue.

22:19 Yeah, but your grandson might not have water

22:22 when he's growing up, though.

22:24 So that's a connection that you have to keep in mind.

22:27 So in Malaysia, you know, everything's breakable.

22:30 You break, you can go and buy a new one.

22:32 But we don't realize that every time you break something,

22:34 it's a resource that somebody can use

22:36 that you're using now.

22:38 So I think that thinking has to change.

22:41 Number two, we need to go hard on pollution.

22:44 Our rivers are polluted beyond belief.

22:47 They're in our loss.

22:48 So Spain actually has now,

22:50 pollution we are going to increase

22:53 from 500,000 to 15 million.

22:56 And you have that, you can't be fine.

22:57 And I also think you can go one step forward,

23:00 the directors of those companies,

23:03 especially involved in pollution,

23:04 should be taken off.

23:07 Meaning that they should not be directors

23:09 in that particular industry for five years.

23:12 It's only then that people take it seriously.

23:14 When they realize that their incomes are going to be hurt,

23:18 their investments are going to be hurt,

23:19 then they will take things seriously.

23:21 - Absolutely.

23:22 - Otherwise, you know, it's always like,

23:23 I can pay off, I can do this.

23:24 And in a country where paying off becomes the norm,

23:27 it becomes a national disease.

23:29 Then everything, you know, everything can be solved.

23:32 So I think that has to be done.

23:35 Together, also what we need to be doing,

23:37 a third point that I think that you're alluding to,

23:41 is this notion of a different kind of an audit under ESG.

23:45 Alliance Bank, for example, did a study

23:47 of small and medium industries

23:51 on how, you know, the embracing of ESG

23:55 and what they have done,

23:56 what are the levels of priority.

23:58 So when it comes to E, the environment part,

24:01 the top priority is energy efficiency, though.

24:04 Zero carbon, that is the priority, though.

24:07 And, but whereas water is at the bottom.

24:09 So how come water, which is so important,

24:12 gets to the bottom and energy becomes on top, though?

24:15 Okay, so this has to change.

24:17 And I think water should sit same together with energy,

24:21 even for higher itself.

24:22 So the way we look at auditing itself has to change.

24:25 - Right.

24:26 - It has to change, because without water,

24:28 factories can't run.

24:30 So why is energy more important than water?

24:34 - Yeah.

24:35 I mean, you've been on record talking

24:36 about our aging dams as well, right?

24:39 So you're already warning, you know,

24:42 that we may and we will face further supply disruptions

24:46 or even no water for longer periods.

24:49 If I could just talk to you a little bit,

24:51 I've seen recently that they're talking about now tariffs

24:54 could be implemented for households as well as businesses.

24:59 Do you think this is the answer

25:00 so that we can have improved technology?

25:02 Is that where the tariffs are gonna go to?

25:04 Is it pipes?

25:06 What are your thoughts about imposing tariffs at this point?

25:10 - I think there are two issues that you have raised.

25:14 One is involving businesses

25:16 and the other involving consumers, households.

25:20 The one involving tariff increase for businesses

25:24 has already been implemented.

25:26 It's already been done.

25:27 Now, it's actually for households.

25:32 I think just to be clear,

25:34 the prerogative of the power to increase tariffs

25:37 lies with the minister and by extension cabinet.

25:42 The minister has the power to increase tariffs.

25:47 Spend really has no role in making that decision.

25:51 That decision is made by the minister

25:53 and how he views it.

25:55 But as a regulator,

26:00 what we do is we have consultations throughout the year,

26:04 asking people for comments,

26:06 asking people for their views on A, B, C, D.

26:11 One is on the quality of water,

26:13 one on access to water,

26:14 issues that they have with water

26:16 and of course tariffs as well.

26:18 I think generally, generally the perception is

26:21 we do not mind paying for water

26:24 provided there is no corruption, no leakages

26:29 and more efficiency on the part of operators.

26:33 And where will the tariffs go?

26:36 Do you know what they're going to be using the tariffs for?

26:38 Is it for technology?

26:39 Well, by and large, actually,

26:41 a good number of them are making losses.

26:43 That's the sad part.

26:45 See, for example, in the case of Pahang,

26:49 tariffs have not increased in the last 40 years.

26:54 That's a long time.

26:56 Whereas the prices of your chemicals,

27:01 your pipes, worker salaries,

27:04 capacity building for your staff

27:06 has increased by 50, 60, 70%.

27:10 But the tariff has not increased.

27:13 And then I think in the case of Kedah,

27:16 in the case of Trinidad, it's about 20 years,

27:18 it has not increased.

27:20 And I think it's also true for Kedah as well.

27:22 So a lot of our operators are actually not making money.

27:26 And that is why government has to pump money

27:28 into their coffers in order to keep them afloat.

27:32 So there comes a point that they can't take it anymore.

27:36 And so if you ask the operator,

27:39 he will say, "Look, I can't even pay my staff adequately.

27:43 "I can't even pay my, what do you call it,

27:45 "the NRW, the non-revenue water contractor,

27:48 "sufficiently though."

27:49 So some part of that has been taken off from the state

27:53 to the federal.

27:54 I mean, the government pays for it.

27:55 So the government has a different approach

27:56 in managing NRW, but we are still far behind,

27:59 really far behind.

28:01 Like for example, in the case of Perlis.

28:03 Perlis NRW is 60%.

28:08 60%.

28:09 You know, that means for every $100,

28:11 60 ringgit is wasted.

28:15 - Right.

28:16 - So they need all the help they can get.

28:19 And Kedah needs all the help they can get.

28:22 Klantan needs all the help.

28:24 Pahang as well as Tringanore.

28:26 All of them need lots of help.

28:28 The ones that are doing better financially

28:31 will be the Penang, Selangor, Perak, as well as Johor.

28:36 - And will the tariffs be the same?

28:40 So will we pay for water regardless

28:41 of which state we're in?

28:42 - No, I think it'll be different.

28:44 - It'll be different.

28:45 - I'm logically saying it's different,

28:47 but that decision will remain by the minister.

28:49 - I see, okay.

28:50 Well Charles, thank you very much for being with us today.

28:53 I think this has been really very informative.

28:55 And hopefully, you know, they take on board

28:57 all that you have said, you know,

29:00 about the audits and about enforcement.

29:02 You know, you've really given us a lot of nuggets

29:04 of great information.

29:06 So thank you very much.

29:06 - Part of my work, you know.

29:09 But thanks for having me.

29:09 I really appreciate it.

29:10 - No, no, thank you.

29:11 Thank you.

29:12 And that was my conversation

29:16 with the straight-talking Charles Santiago,

29:18 who shared his views about how the quality

29:21 and the quantity of water impacts both households

29:23 and businesses, and how our strategic planning

29:26 is crucial to curb potential problems in the future.

29:29 Will industry take on board the warnings

29:33 and suggestions on how we can future-proof

29:36 our water supply for society and businesses alike?

29:39 I am Shirin Muhyiddin.

29:42 See you next time on Stakeholders with Shirin.

29:45 (upbeat music)

29:48 (upbeat music)

29:50 (upbeat music)

29:53 you

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