- 2 years ago
On this episode of The Downshift
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MotorTranscript
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00:32 Our car of the year carries nearly as much gear
00:35 as a Ford Explorer.
00:36 Yet it is more high tech and efficient
00:38 than the latest Prius plug-in.
00:40 So just what is Motor Trend's 2013 car of the year?
00:44 The electrifying Tesla Model S.
00:54 So we just finished up one of the most, if not the most,
00:56 important event that we do each year,
00:58 and that is Car of the Year.
01:00 And today we're going to address some of the comments,
01:01 questions, and controversy surrounding our decision.
01:04 So one of the things that people took issue with
01:06 was the fact that the car has no history.
01:08 It's not tried and true.
01:09 We don't know the resale value.
01:11 We don't know how reliable they will be.
01:13 What's our response to that?
01:15 Well, I think we were fairly clear with that to start with.
01:18 We can only know what we know.
01:20 And as the car we judged during Car of the Year
01:23 met all the criteria-- no, we don't
01:25 know the long-term durability and reliability.
01:27 And to be honest, it's fair to say that with every car that
01:32 wins Car of the Year, because Car of the Year,
01:34 it's not a comparison test.
01:36 It's new or significantly improved vehicles.
01:38 And when someone launches a brand new vehicle,
01:40 like, say, the F30 BMW, we have no idea
01:43 what its history might be.
01:44 There might be some components in there that work well,
01:46 but really, we don't know what that car's going
01:49 to be like five years from now.
01:50 No one can.
01:51 We're not voting on best business case of the year
01:54 or anything like that.
01:54 It's the actual physical product, the car.
01:57 And that's what mattered.
01:59 Another thing people took issue with was the price tag.
02:01 They said, this is a pipe dream.
02:02 This is unaffordable.
02:03 This is not an accessible vehicle for most Americans.
02:06 Well, we get that every year, no matter what we choose.
02:09 We pick Passat, and then we got the cries of, oh my god,
02:11 it's so boring.
02:13 Who wants that?
02:13 This is totally unsexy.
02:15 Well, now we pick something that's a good-looking car,
02:18 competes against vehicles like the 5 Series, the E-Class,
02:22 the Panamera, let's say.
02:24 And now we're getting dinged that it's too expensive.
02:26 We're going to get that no matter what we choose every year.
02:29 That's what I tell people.
02:30 There is a value statement with the Tesla.
02:32 When you think about the segment that it competes in,
02:34 against A6 and Panamera and 5 Series,
02:38 the performance is on par when you go north of $100,000
02:41 for an M5 or an S6.
02:45 The argument is invalid.
02:46 It's actually a bargain.
02:48 Think what batteries cost and the rest
02:50 of the architecture of that car.
02:51 It's a huge value argument for that car.
02:54 Plus efficiency.
02:55 I mean, just the cost to run it.
02:56 And I know that if you're spending $90,000 on a car,
02:59 you probably don't care that much.
03:01 But I mean, 100 miles per gallon equivalent is very efficient.
03:05 So it's just your costs are way down.
03:06 What about the claim that there's not even
03:08 an infrastructure to support this vehicle currently
03:11 in the States?
03:12 My big thing with that is that we
03:14 know that the car has a well over 200-mile range.
03:18 And if people are honest--
03:20 now, that's hard.
03:21 But if people are actually honest,
03:22 how many times a year do you drive more than 200 miles
03:26 if you're not--
03:27 If you don't work at Motor Trend.
03:28 If you don't work at Motor Trend.
03:30 It's kind of a freakish thing.
03:31 Now, look, if you do do that, don't buy the Model S.
03:35 The battery's so big, you don't need the charging
03:37 infrastructure.
03:38 And Franz von Hohhausen was telling us
03:41 that they've been monitoring the way customers are using
03:43 the cars.
03:44 And so for the first week, everyone, every second,
03:46 they plug the thing in.
03:47 Plug it in.
03:48 Plug it in.
03:48 Always plug it in.
03:49 And then they realize you don't need to plug it in all the time.
03:51 As the next week, they plug it in less.
03:53 And by the third week, they barely
03:55 plug it in because you can go 250 miles on one charge.
03:59 That's more than you could go on a CTS-V.
04:01 Way more.
04:02 A Land Rover Evolution or even the Focus ST.
04:05 Yeah, it's a great arrangement, all those.
04:08 And the whole infrastructure argument.
04:09 I mean, if we all thought like that,
04:10 we'd still be riding horses.
04:12 Because in 1902, there was no gasoline infrastructure either.
04:16 So it's a little bit build it and they will come.
04:19 Eventually, if enough people are buying electric vehicles,
04:22 an electric vehicle infrastructure
04:23 will come in place because there'll be a commercial reason
04:26 to have one.
04:27 Did everyone agree with the Chosen Car of the Year decision?
04:30 Yeah, it was a unanimous choice.
04:33 I think it becomes clearer, too, the more we've
04:35 had a chance to think about it and talk with our colleagues
04:38 in the industry.
04:38 I mean, not only our most important award,
04:41 but it's received several other industry accolades.
04:43 It's funny, I think, because in the industry,
04:46 the car guys, the car journalists,
04:48 are basically now a cheerleading section.
04:50 If you've driven the car, if you spend any time with it,
04:53 you're automatically converted.
04:54 It's that significant.
04:56 So I think a lot of the naysayers
04:58 are the ones who haven't spent any time with it
05:00 or haven't driven it and just like to throw rocks
05:02 from the sidelines.
05:02 I've yet to talk to anyone who's driven the car
05:04 and has a bad thing to say about it.
05:06 Well, I have a bad thing to say or two about it.
05:08 But--
05:09 The door handles aren't great.
05:10 No.
05:10 I'd like to walk up and present you.
05:12 I don't like the center console either,
05:14 that big bin at the bottom.
05:15 And you know.
05:16 I love that.
05:17 I mean, that's a nitpick.
05:18 That's a nitpick.
05:19 That's what it comes down to.
05:21 It is.
05:21 That's what it comes down to.
05:22 No, the car, there are things to improve.
05:24 Look.
05:24 Sure.
05:25 Sure.
05:25 There is no such thing as a perfect car.
05:27 And you can always find stuff that should be.
05:29 But out of the box, a first up effort
05:32 from a company that's never designed a car before,
05:34 I mean, it's truly astonishing.
05:36 And of course, the perennial question that we get,
05:38 why not this car?
05:39 Why not that car?
05:40 Well, Car of the Year is for any new or significantly improved
05:44 vehicle launched during the year.
05:46 So it's not a comparison test.
05:48 So there are people saying, well,
05:49 why didn't you put this car in the comparison test?
05:51 Not a comparison test.
05:52 And a car that was launched two years ago, not eligible.
05:58 Because it was in Car of the Year two years ago.
06:00 Exactly.
06:00 And then we also get, why wasn't the Viper there?
06:03 Well, because it wasn't there.
06:04 It wasn't available.
06:05 We only can test what they give us.
06:08 And if the car doesn't exist yet, we can't test it.
06:11 [AUDIO OUT]
06:18 All right.
06:19 Now let's move from Car of the Year
06:20 to one of the most controversial comparisons we have ever done.
06:25 You're looking at me?
06:25 Yes, I'm looking at you.
06:27 BMW ATS Mercedes-Benz.
06:30 OK, a lot of history here.
06:31 So basically, we did a three-way on head-to-head.
06:34 We did the V6 automatic versions of the BMW 335i Sport,
06:40 the Mercedes C350 Sport, and the Cadillac ATS 3.6.
06:44 There was no ATS at this point.
06:46 We'd never seen the car before.
06:48 And so, I know, Angus, you can speak to this some more.
06:51 But this Cadillac was developed in Germany,
06:54 pretty much exclusively, at least chassis-wise,
06:57 in Germany on the Nürburgring on German roads.
06:59 And they stole the formula from BMW, essentially.
07:03 The 3 Series was the benchmark car.
07:05 If you look at an ATS, it's within millimeters
07:08 of a 3 Series in every single dimension.
07:12 Finally, Cadillac has woken up.
07:14 Remember, the CTS was kind of like halfway
07:16 between a 3 and a 5.
07:17 Well, suddenly, they realized they
07:19 don't have to reinvent the wheel.
07:20 There's the formula.
07:21 BMW's done it.
07:22 And just go and copy it and make it better.
07:24 And I think the controversy this time
07:26 was, in terms of the six-cylinder versions,
07:29 the ATS is a better car than the 3 Series.
07:33 Chassis is incredibly stiff.
07:35 The suspension's better.
07:36 It's got just as much power in the real world.
07:38 And like we found in our figure 8 test, straight line, OK,
07:41 the 335i with that twin turbo is super fast.
07:45 It's over half a second faster than both cars.
07:47 Figure 8, it's a tenth of a second.
07:49 So all that straight line advantage
07:51 is mitigated once you start turning the wheel.
07:53 Well, I don't know why people are so shocked, though.
07:55 We know how good the V stuff is.
07:57 But now this looks like, hey, Cadillac has finally
08:00 focused in on this particular segment
08:02 and really thrown all the resources at pursuing
08:05 3 Series BMW.
08:06 And that being said, ATS is not perfect.
08:08 I mean, I think out of Car of the Year,
08:10 we've had a lot of discussion about vertical movement
08:12 in the chassis, particularly on the winding road and how--
08:15 Queue.
08:15 And how-- yeah, queue, exactly.
08:17 And I particularly don't like the rear seat packaging.
08:19 But when you talk about enthusiasts driving and--
08:23 Which is why BMW, for 30 years, has dominated the comparison
08:26 test.
08:27 They drive better.
08:27 Driving those cars back to back, I never thought ever
08:30 I would see the day where I could
08:32 say that a Cadillac had better steering than a BMW.
08:35 And that is absolutely the case with any ATS
08:38 versus any 3 Series.
08:40 This totally flies in the face of the argument
08:42 that Motortrend's bought off.
08:43 I mean, what, did BMW's check not clear?
08:45 No?
08:45 Cadillac's is bigger.
08:46 Cadillac's is bigger.
08:47 [INTERPOSING VOICES]
08:49 We're never going to win in the conversations.
08:50 No, I know.
08:51 I know.
08:51 It's hilarious.
08:52 And that was most of the feedback,
08:54 was I can't believe you're saying
08:55 BMW's in last place.
08:57 I just can't believe this.
08:59 50 years ago, BMW was building--
09:02 Zed is.
09:02 Under-licensed.
09:03 Bubble cars under-licensed from an Italian car company.
09:06 It was broke.
09:07 It took it years to discover who it was, which was the 2002,
09:11 to find the company.
09:12 They said, that's us.
09:13 That's who we're going to be.
09:14 And everything they've done's been a riff on that.
09:16 Now, I think they're trying to figure out, well, OK,
09:19 we've played that for as much as we can play.
09:22 We need to expand who we are.
09:24 So I think what we're seeing is BMW's going a little bit
09:27 softer.
09:27 We're seeing it in the steering.
09:29 I mean, the 5 Series is--
09:31 it looks better than the last one,
09:32 but it's not as much fun to drive.
09:34 It's not as much of a driver's car.
09:37 They went backwards.
09:38 They took the aluminum front end off it.
09:40 It's all steel now.
09:41 It's heavier.
09:43 BMW's trying to go more mainstream.
09:45 And I'm not sure that's right for BMW.
09:47 And you know this, to turn a car company around--
09:49 because Cadillac was awful for a very, very long time.
09:52 But it takes two generations.
09:54 It takes a decade to actually build good products.
09:57 Then it takes another decade to convince people that you've
09:59 built good products.
10:01 And Cadillac's not out of the woods.
10:02 Here's my--
10:02 No, no.
10:03 Here's my fear with General Motors
10:04 is that they're going to think, hey,
10:06 they're going to be doing high fives around the ATS, job done,
10:09 and not follow through.
10:12 For that car to be a global competitor to the 3 Series,
10:15 we need the ATS wagon, which I hear is being canceled.
10:18 We need the ATS convertible.
10:20 We need the ATS coupe.
10:22 So let's end by talking about which vehicle we found
10:24 most inspiring at the LA Auto Show.
10:26 I know one of the ones I most want to drive
10:28 is the new Cayman.
10:29 Cayman, yes.
10:29 I just--
10:32 The Boxster was such a step up from the previous car
10:35 and such a sublime chassis.
10:37 I'm kind of-- I prefer coupes to convertibles.
10:40 I would say that the car I'm kind of most interested in,
10:44 just because it seems like one of the smartest cars there,
10:47 is the new RAV4.
10:48 I mean, talk about going for like the throat of that segment.
10:50 Certainly.
10:51 Got rid of the V6.
10:52 So that means across the range, fuel economy's over 30 miles
10:55 a gallon for a hot--
10:57 [GASPS]
10:57 Yes, of course.
10:59 Of course.
11:00 And I would counter your argument
11:01 by saying that I think Subaru Forester is a nice foil
11:05 to that, because that was a previous SUV of the year
11:07 winner for us.
11:08 We tend to like what Subaru does, maybe more
11:12 on the SUV side than the sedan side.
11:14 But I thought there were a lot of clever tricks
11:16 that that car has against the RAV4.
11:17 But yeah.
11:18 Well, the problem is that if the Forester is the greatest
11:22 car of all time, they'll sell 50,000.
11:25 And the RAV4, if it catches on fire when you open the door,
11:28 they'll sell 800,000.
11:29 So I'm just saying just in terms of a segment.
11:32 So they're adding some excitement to the RAV4 then?
11:34 No.
11:35 No, there's no excitement.
11:36 [LAUGHTER]
11:37 There's no excitement.
11:38 I'm just saying from an industry point of view,
11:41 I was intrigued by that car.
11:43 I thought the new Kia, the little sedan--
11:46 The Forte looked good.
11:47 I thought the car--
11:49 Kia is really nailing--
11:51 Peter Schreyer's work at Kia is outstanding.
11:54 One of the problems a lot of Asian brands
11:56 have is with design.
11:58 They're all over the map.
11:59 The cars tend to be fussy.
12:01 You look at--
12:01 Look at Lexus.
12:02 Lexus.
12:03 You look at Subaru.
12:04 Honda.
12:05 Well, Subaru claims they don't even have designers.
12:07 And they--
12:08 Oh, it looks like it.
12:09 They send that cost back to the customer.
12:11 It shows.
12:11 But Kia is absolutely the exception.
12:14 That car is a fabulous looking little small car.
12:18 Just really classy.
12:19 Great proportion stance.
12:21 The surfacing on it.
12:22 That was a real standout.
12:24 Here's hoping it drives nicely.
12:26 Well, if that thing drove, if that thing had the chassis,
12:28 say, that Ford puts under a Focus, it'd be terrific.
12:32 It'd be, hands down, the best car in the segment.
12:35 I think the thing that really struck me,
12:38 because we're in the know and looking at what's coming,
12:41 is that all the sexy stuff is actually
12:43 going to be at Detroit this year.
12:45 It's going to be insane.
12:46 Somebody asked me, what are you most looking forward to?
12:48 And at the top of my head, I was like, well, the Corvette.
12:50 Because that's the next seven years of our magazine's cover.
12:52 Because that's what we really care about.
12:55 And that's not until Detroit.
12:57 All right, well, on to Detroit.
12:59 Go team.
12:59 Detroit.
13:00 Cheers.
13:00 We need to start doing this later,
13:01 so we don't have coffee in our cups.
13:03 I was really into the lack of beer.
13:05 I know it's 11, but--
13:09 It's after 12.
13:09 We can't be judged.
13:10 It's 5 o'clock somewhere.
13:11 Yeah.
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