- 6 weeks ago
In this episode of The InEVitable by MotorTrend
Category
đźš—
MotorTranscript
00:00Internally, from their engineering standpoint,
00:03everybody said, you don't need a transmission
00:04mated to an EV motor.
00:06Are you creepy?
00:07Yeah, so.
00:09And again, before I drove it, 100% agree.
00:11Why would you?
00:12Why, why, why?
00:13Yeah, but it just works.
00:15This thing's great.
00:17It just felt like I was driving a classic car with punch.
00:21It's cool to have something this small and old that
00:25has torque.
00:26Yes.
00:26Because I've driven lots of stuff like this,
00:29and they're foamy.
00:30And this is just, boom.
00:33Welcome to The Inevitable, a podcast by Motor Trend.
00:46Hi there, and welcome to this episode of The Inevitable.
00:49This is Motor Trend's podcast, our vodcast
00:52about the future of cars, the future of transportation.
00:56Where are we going and how are we going to get there?
00:59I'm joined, as always, by my co-host, Ed Lowe.
01:02I'm Johnny Lieberman.
01:03Do you have a message?
01:04I do.
01:04The Inevitable vodcast is brought to you by nobody right now.
01:08We need a sponsor.
01:09So if you want to sponsor us, please shoot me an email,
01:13edward.loh at hearst.com, or slip into either of our Instagram DMs.
01:18You want to do one episode, the whole series, shoot us a note.
01:22Today, we're in a very special location.
01:25We are here at Bowls in Little Tokyo in downtown Los Angeles.
01:30This is an iconic shop supporting motorsports in Los Angeles, the import scene.
01:36They've been very kind to let us use their space to record, and also the curb out front,
01:41because we have a very special episode here with Toyota and Lexus International.
01:46Johnny and I just got to drive a very awesome Hachiroku AE86 Toyota.
01:53Toyota.
01:54This is an iconic vehicle known all across the Japanese motorsports scene.
02:00It's from the toge, from running in the mountains, also in drifting.
02:05It's big here in LA, too.
02:07Big here in LA, big here.
02:0986 life.
02:10Yes.
02:11Anybody who's into the import scene, into Japanese cars, into classic 80s vehicles,
02:17they know this vehicle.
02:18They love this vehicle.
02:19But this vehicle we got to drive has a unique angle, obviously.
02:22There's a twist.
02:23There's a twist.
02:24It's been electrified, and some of you folks might groan and say,
02:28why did they electrify a classic that's an inline four-cylinder, lightweight,
02:35rear-drive vehicle known for canyon carving and for drifting?
02:39Well, we just got to drive it.
02:42Yeah.
02:43Not to spoil it, but I felt the same way before I drive it.
02:46I say, of all the cars to pick, why this one?
02:49So we should talk just a little bit about the vehicle before we talk to our special guest.
02:53Again, it is an A86.
02:56It's a Toyota Corolla GTS.
02:59In this version, it's called, there were two versions.
03:02One's a Trueno.
03:03Another one's called a Levin.
03:05Those were only sold in Japan under those nameplates.
03:08We knew it as a Corolla GTS.
03:11But this one was a Levin because, and I'd known this car for like over 25 years.
03:16I didn't know that Levin actually, it comes from old English, it means lightning.
03:19Yeah.
03:20I just learned that too.
03:21Yes.
03:22There's EV in the name.
03:23There's EV in the name.
03:24Like our podcast.
03:25Like our podcast.
03:26And they turned the EV into like a green color.
03:28Very cute.
03:29But why electrify it and how do they electrify it?
03:33So we're going to talk to our guests about some of the reasons why, but as far as we know,
03:39they put the motor, 36 kilowatt motor from a Tundra hybrid under the hood of this Corolla.
03:48It literally bolted right onto the transmission.
03:51Right.
03:52The existing transmission, it just bolted right up.
03:54Well, strangely, it has a transmission.
03:56It's a six speed manual transmission from a current generation 86.
04:01Yeah, 86.
04:02Yeah.
04:03Which is also strange.
04:04The original had a five speed, so this is a six speed.
04:07It's a right hand drive.
04:08And then powering it is an 18.1 kilowatt hour lithium ion battery that's positioned in the trunk
04:14where you would find the rear seat and the cargo area.
04:18And from what we understand, the motor is out of a Tundra hybrid.
04:21Yep.
04:22And the battery is out of a Lexus NX.
04:24NX 450 H plug-in hybrid.
04:26Plug-in hybrid, yeah.
04:27Output is very similar to the original.
04:30And of course, this is a eighties era vehicle.
04:32So it's not up to modern day power standards, but about 127 horsepower and-
04:39But it only weighs about 2,300 pounds.
04:41Hang on.
04:42And 111 pound feet of torque.
04:43So you, yes, you skip to the plot.
04:45The power to weight is also very similar to the original.
04:49The original was around 2,100 pounds, 2,159 pounds.
04:55And this one is just over 2,300 pounds.
04:58So 2,300 and about 60 pounds.
05:01So about 200 pounds heavier than the original.
05:04But it has electric motor, big battery, and a six-speed manual.
05:09And you know, I drove the Hoonatron.
05:13So the Audi electric, you know, chem block car.
05:18And interesting, that was made up of four batteries out of the Q7 plug-in hybrid.
05:23Right.
05:24You know, much more powerful thing.
05:25But it's interesting that both manufacturers, you know, kind of approach it the same way.
05:29Like, do we have a small compact battery?
05:31Yeah, it's in our plug-in hybrid SUV.
05:33Right.
05:34Pull it out, stick it into a sports car.
05:35Right.
05:36So it's kind of interesting.
05:37So this vehicle debuted at the, I think the Tokyo Motor Show back in 2023.
05:41It's here now.
05:42We got to drive it somehow by some magic on the streets of little Tokyo.
05:47I got to go first.
05:48I only went up to second gear because I was sitting next to one of the engineers.
05:52I was a little nervous.
05:54I didn't.
05:55It's awesome.
05:56I drove it much faster.
05:57And he was like, oh, good, good.
05:58Yeah, okay.
05:59Well, it's a right-hand drive vehicle.
06:01So you're shifting with your left hand.
06:03I thought it was awesome.
06:04Yeah.
06:05The steering, amazing.
06:06It is set up like a race car.
06:08So it has a cage.
06:10Most of the interior has been stripped out.
06:12So there's diamond plate on the floor.
06:13Diamond plate on the floor is the best part.
06:14Yep.
06:15Very cool.
06:16So the suspension is pretty stiff, but I thought the steering was fantastic.
06:21It's very lightly assisted.
06:22I mean, look, here's what you want to know.
06:25What all old cars are, you know, they're very light.
06:28They're very small.
06:29And we miss that.
06:30Modern cars are very big.
06:31They're very heavy.
06:32However, all old cars, especially old sports cars, they're all, you know, small engines.
06:35You got to rev them out to like 7,000, 8,000 before anything happens.
06:38This is instant punch.
06:40You just get on it and it goes.
06:42And that, I wasn't expecting that.
06:43I mean, I should have thought about it, but it was like, it just, it felt so cool to shift
06:47it.
06:48It felt like a miniature muscle car.
06:50Like if you, if you think about something like a Camaro ZL1 manual, you know, it's like
06:55650 pound feet of torque and you shift it with that much torque.
06:58It's cool.
06:59And this was similar on a smaller, lighter scale, but I, you know, power to weight's
07:03not that off.
07:04And it was just, it was, it was very cool.
07:06Right.
07:07Very surprising.
07:08Very surprising.
07:09I think we, you know, EVs have been around for a long time.
07:14People converting EVs, not a new thing, right?
07:16People have been doing a VW buses since, since the beginning.
07:19And a lot of times you kind of look at it and you go, well, what are they doing here?
07:22They're taking an old chassis and they're putting, you know, putting in this motor and battery
07:26combination.
07:27I've read the specs also, you know, this thing is a little bit range limited.
07:30Uh, it gets about 60 miles of range on the battery, about 90 or so kilometers.
07:34Um, so there's some trade off here, but I think the most unique thing was that the power
07:39to weight matches up.
07:40So you really get that, you get that old school feeling.
07:43Um, we could talk forever about how it drove, uh, but we'd be ignoring our guests.
07:48So, uh, why don't we bring in our guests, the man who is responsible for this project.
07:55This is, uh, Kenji Arai, the chief engineer.
07:58So Arai-san.
07:59Arai-san.
08:00And with him is, uh, Toshi Hayama, who's gonna act as his translator.
08:02Uh, we should do a whole episode with Toshi.
08:04Actually, Toshi's been in the import scene for a long time.
08:06Uh, he knows a lot about this car, uh, as a, uh, a naturally aspirated, you know,
08:11JDM legend.
08:12Uh, but this is a great combination to talk about, um, this project.
08:16So, Arai-san, welcome, and thank you for coming.
08:19Yeah, thank you.
08:20And thank you for bringing this thing all the way from Japan.
08:22And letting us drive it.
08:23And letting us drive it.
08:24Um.
08:25First question.
08:26Is it in any way legal to drive here?
08:28First question.
08:29Is it in any way legal to drive here?
08:30Legal.
08:31Legal.
08:32Legal.
08:33Okay.
08:34Well, the only other, the only other, uh, vehicle we've ever driven on this podcast
08:39was, um, the Nikolai hydrogen semi-truck.
08:43Totally legal.
08:44We drove it around Beverly Hills.
08:46Oh, yeah.
08:47I have a question.
08:48I have a lot of questions.
08:49I have a lot of questions.
08:50I just want to keep it illegal.
08:51Yes.
08:52Um.
08:53Underground.
08:54Why?
08:55Why do this project?
08:57Why do it for the 2023 Tokyo Motor Show?
09:00Um.
09:01Um.
09:02Um.
09:03Um.
09:04Um.
09:05Um.
09:06Um.
09:07Um.
09:08Um.
09:09Um.
09:10Um.
09:11Um.
09:12Um.
09:13Um.
09:18Um.
09:19Um.
09:20Um.
09:21Uh.
09:22Um.
09:23What's going on is this.
09:24is because you have your own, you know, your Aisha, the car that you love, and you've
09:28driven it a long time. We want to make sure that there's a future for those cars moving forward
09:32so that you can continue to keep driving those cars. But why, why from Lexus? You guys are
09:37both wearing Lexus shirts, Lexus Electrified. So one of the things we were thinking is what can we do and
09:52how can we play our part moving forward to try to keep these cars on the road?
10:01And of course electrification is one of our core strengths from the Lexus brand.
10:10And so let's infuse more power, let's resurrect these older cars using our electrification
10:15technology. So did it start from this idea of making sure these older cars have like a future
10:25and then Lexus? Did you did you start by looking in what is available within the Lexus family and that's
10:32how you arrive at the NX450 battery? And then you pick a motor or how does how does the
10:38the brand? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. What other um yeah why not why not like you know SC400 or
10:50or uh SC400 or SC300. Yes, right? Yes. Keep it all Lexus. Yeah, all those are.
10:59So so first as you know starting in 1983 for 40 years the 86 has been you know the uh the iconic car.
11:1483 to 2003. Ah okay anniversary. Very good. Yes. And it represents what an Aisha or what your car
11:23is supposed to be. Okay. And so we and so we decide let's start there. Let's start there.
11:28Let's start with that car. And that allowed you because it was so light I'm going to assume.
11:32I mean that allows you to use the the tundra uh motor rather than if you'd use like a current 86 you
11:40wouldn't need a more powerful motor. And so right now Lexus has a very strong performance uh aspect to the brand
11:53and it gave us an opportunity to showcase that. Okay. And so the fun of
11:58really throwing the car around. The driver and the communication between the driver and the car.
12:05So. Okay. And the A86 is perfect match for that. And so let's use this car. Okay. So then
12:12you're a powertrain engineer for 40 almost 40 years with Toyota. Since 1986. Yes. Yes. He joined the company in 86. Wow.
12:31And then did you own a Hachiu Oki? Yes. Yes. Yes. Do you have one now? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. No. No. Not now. Okay. Uh.
12:39So, why put a manual? Why was it important to put a manual transmission in it?
12:46The reason why he really wanted to keep the manual transmission is a crucial element into operating and really throwing the car around and handling it.
13:05And so that was an element he didn't want to compromise.
13:09I noticed, we were talking earlier, but I noticed that when you were shifting, it was very intuitive.
13:17Without even thinking about it.
13:21I was listening to the electric motor and I knew when to shift based on the sound.
13:26So you must have engineered that in.
13:29Yes.
13:31Could you tell us about that?
13:33Using your five senses, your senses.
13:37And to really throw the car around, to operate the car.
13:40And that's the flavor of the AE86 itself.
13:45And that we wanted to preserve that.
13:48So it's real? All the motor engine noise?
13:51So the sound is the original sound?
13:53Yes.
13:54The sound is the original 4AG.
13:56So we recorded audio from a real 4AG engine.
13:59And we used the sound generation to include, obviously, vibration and everything as well.
14:03Oh, okay. Interesting. Okay.
14:05And then, okay.
14:06And then, okay, so then, how...
14:08We've lost so many questions.
14:09How does it work with the motor?
14:12You have the, the Tundra hybrid motor spinning at a certain RPM.
14:17No.
14:18Connected to...
14:19No.
14:20Connected to...
14:21No.
14:22No.
14:23Right engine.
14:24Oh, so...
14:25So it's not, obviously, constantly rotating.
14:27Okay.
14:28It's spinning like a motor, as if a motor.
14:29So the RPMs will go up.
14:30Okay.
14:31According to...
14:32And then you have it connected to just a standard, uh, GR86.
14:36That's a GR86.
14:37And then you have, on the...
14:42I noticed, on the TAC, you have an arrow at 6,000 shift point, right?
14:50Is it?
14:51What is that actually?
14:52It's not 6,000 RPM.
14:53It's not 6,000 RPM.
14:54It is a true 6,000 RPM of the motor.
14:57Oh, really?
14:58Yeah, they limited it.
14:59Ah, okay.
15:01How...
15:02What happens if you go...
15:03It's over-rev?
15:04It's over-rev?
15:05No, no, no.
15:06It's just a re-revolution limit.
15:08Oh, it just stops?
15:09Yeah, it just stops.
15:10Oh, okay.
15:11Software.
15:12Okay.
15:13So there is a real...
15:14It's not...
15:15There are some manufacturers who have put fake shifting in electric motor but this is genuine gear reduction...
15:22This is a real gear reduction, or...
15:23No, no.
15:25It's a real transmission.
15:27Real transmission.
15:29Real transmission.
15:30Yes, it's a mechanical transmission.
15:32How many other motor and battery combinations did you consider before arriving at this one?
15:40The combination of this is only one.
15:46Really? Yeah.
15:47You just look at the whole catalog of Toyota and Lexus.
15:51Oh, this one?
15:53Yeah.
15:55But what have you considered, since it's already an 86 transmission, using electrifying an 86?
16:02Is that something that could happen?
16:05If you're using the 86, there's a plan to make a modern brother for this car.
16:12Not currently.
16:14But of course, we're looking at the feedback from today, for instance, to see where we should go.
16:21Yeah, you should do it.
16:23More power, do it.
16:25Oh, it'll be good.
16:27So you've got the Lexus NX450 battery, you've got a hybrid motor, GR86.
16:34The battery, I saw some of this video that you can hot swap it, you can pull it out and put another one in.
16:42That's for drifting, motorsport?
16:47So, for example, there's an option for motorsports.
16:52As a motorsports option.
16:54As a motorsports option.
16:55So in a small amount of time, when you have to run in a time period that's shorter than the appropriate charging time, then you need to be able to swap it.
17:03How long does it take to swap?
17:0540 minutes.
17:06Oh, 40 minutes.
17:07Okay.
17:08How heavy is the battery?
17:09How much is the battery?
17:10140kg.
17:11140kg.
17:12140kg.
17:13So that's 345, 30g.
17:16How long does it take to charge?
17:18How long does it take to charge?
17:19How long does it take to charge?
17:216 hours.
17:226 hours on level 2?
17:24Or level 1 charge?
17:26Level 1.
17:27So the charge is based on a slow charge.
17:30On a slow charge.
17:32Yeah.
17:33And you can't, because it's a plug-in, there's no level 3 fast charge?
17:36PHM, so it's not.
17:37Yes.
17:38Correct.
17:39Correct.
17:40Correct.
17:41But you could obviously use a different battery.
17:43If you want to change the system, you can change the battery.
17:45Yes.
17:46Yes.
17:47Yes.
17:48This particular prototype.
17:49Right.
17:50And then the...
17:52Where is the inverter from?
17:54Where is the inverter from?
17:55Where is the inverter from?
17:56The inverter is from the NX.
18:00The NX.
18:01Yes.
18:02Okay.
18:03And then anything else complicated from BMS or any other controller?
18:07BMS or other controllers?
18:09What other controllers or controls are?
18:13I want to make the A-86 flavor of the A-86.
18:18So I want to make the flavor of the A-86.
18:23So one of the big challenges, I asked him what were the challenges system-wise.
18:26But he said really recreating the feel of the A-86 itself was the biggest challenge.
18:32So...
18:33Right.
18:34I mean, I'm asking this question because we have some guests on here.
18:37We have some people listening that maybe would want to try to do this DIY.
18:42Because I heard that they would want to try to do it DIY.
18:44Yes.
18:45So I wanted to try to do Tundra.
18:46We have Tundra here.
18:47We have Tundra.
18:48They have Tundra maybe.
18:49There are things such a skill that I designed.
18:52Is it possible?
18:53I think it could be that I can do it with us?
18:56Yes.
18:57No, I should not in the best.
18:58Of course, if you put your hardware, then you could, obviously.
19:02I think the software, the hardware is easy.
19:04The software would be a challenge.
19:06Of course, software would be a challenge.
19:08Maybe Arise-san wants to help and put a PDF?
19:12All of the...
19:14I see. I see where you're going.
19:18I mean, serious question, right?
19:20I think the Gazoo Racing GR is starting to produce old parts
19:26for vintage cars, right?
19:30Could it ever be, you would produce a kit?
19:34Yeah, retrofit.
19:36There's a chance to produce this kind of kit.
19:38Yes.
19:39You can see it in this way.
19:42You can get feedback and plan it.
19:44So really, yeah, the planning would depend on instances like this
19:47where we have the feedback and moving forward.
19:49Well, let's talk a little bit about it.
19:51Because I see the video of you here
19:53and our friend, Ken Gushi.
19:56So, I mean, did you get it?
19:58How fast did you get it, do you think?
20:00I have no idea, but good.
20:01I mean, we lost the chase car.
20:02Sorry.
20:03Okay.
20:04This car, I've seen it.
20:05I've seen Gushi drifting it.
20:08So it's...
20:10It can...
20:11It's high-performance driving, possible?
20:14Yeah.
20:15It's possible, right?
20:16Yes, absolutely.
20:17No problem, like clutch kick?
20:19Crutch kick.
20:20If you hit it or hit it, you can't get rid of the rear.
20:23It's okay.
20:24But the body is a little bit older.
20:26But the body is a little bit older.
20:28Yeah, but the roll cage is stiff.
20:30But the roll cage is stiff.
20:31But the roll cage is stiff.
20:32Well, it's okay.
20:33It's okay.
20:34Actually, what is the suspension?
20:35What are you using now?
20:36What are you using now?
20:37The foot is the inner pedal shock absorber.
20:40Yeah.
20:41Yeah.
20:42Yeah.
20:43Yeah.
20:44Yeah.
20:45Adjustable.
20:46Okay.
20:47Needs a big handbrake.
20:48Ah.
20:49I want a big side brake.
20:51Yeah.
20:52Yeah.
20:53Yeah.
20:54How's the...
20:55What's the fastest you've taken it around?
20:57What's the fastest you've taken it around?
20:59It's 155km.
21:01It's 155km.
21:03Okay.
21:04So it's 100 miles an hour.
21:05Okay.
21:06And that's all...
21:07And you need to go all the way to 6th gear?
21:08It's 6th gear.
21:09It's 6th gear.
21:10It's 6th gear.
21:11Okay.
21:12But it's a gear ratio.
21:13Gear ratio limit.
21:14Gear ratio limit.
21:15And power add power add.
21:16And what would happen...
21:17You've limited the motor to 6,000 RPM.
21:20What if...
21:21What if...
21:22The electric motors can spin to 20,000.
21:24What if you just...
21:26In 6th gear, let it spin to 20.
21:29What would happen?
21:30What would happen?
21:31We blow up the transmission as well.
21:33That's right.
21:35We go 7,000...
21:36Like an 86 goes to 7,000.
21:38So...
21:39Yeah.
21:40Unlock a little...
21:41That's a little more.
21:42Okay.
21:43Under development.
21:44Yeah.
21:45Special.
21:46So...
21:47Nice.
21:48When did you start?
21:49When did you start this?
21:50When did you start this?
21:52When did you start this?
21:53So...
21:54So...
21:55Lexus...
21:56I don't know if you're aware of...
21:57Initially had...
21:58Test pilot programs...
21:59To see what would happen...
22:00If we made it on a manual transmission...
22:01To an EV.
22:02Oh...
22:03I didn't know that.
22:04When did that start?
22:05When did that start?
22:06When did you start this?
22:07About 2021.
22:08Okay.
22:09Can you say what cars you were looking at?
22:11With the manual?
22:12Can you tell me what cars you were looking at?
22:14About 2021.
22:15About 2021.
22:16Okay.
22:17Can you say what cars you were looking at?
22:19Can you tell me what cars you were looking at?
22:20With the manual?
22:21Can you tell me what cars you were looking at?
22:22With the manual?
22:23I thought I saw a little bit of sports car type...
22:25I saw a little bit of sports car type...
22:27I saw a little bit of a car...
22:28I didn't actually make a car.
22:29So...
22:30At that time...
22:31They didn't actually have a working prototype.
22:33They were envisioning what it would be for a small compact sports car.
22:36Got it.
22:37Okay.
22:38So then this was a project for the 40th anniversary...
22:42It wasn't explicitly meant targeted...
22:47Before it just happened...
22:48So timing-like...
22:49Yes, yes.
22:50And then...
22:52What was the sort of response when it came out in 2023?
22:56What was the response when it came out in 2023?
22:57How did you get your feedback?
22:58At that time...
22:59Did you get your first test?
23:00Yes...
23:01When you first announced...
23:03Oh!
23:04In 2023...
23:05In 2023, right?
23:06Yes, yes.
23:07I got a lot of people.
23:08It was really good.
23:09I want to drive it.
23:10Everybody said...
23:11I want to drive it.
23:12I want to test it.
23:13In turn...
23:14So did everybody...
23:15Did Akio...
23:16Has Akio driven it?
23:17Yes.
23:18Yes.
23:19And...
23:20Yes.
23:21Yes.
23:22Okay.
23:23That's the big boss.
23:24Yes.
23:25Akio Toyota apparently has driven it...
23:26And gives a double thumbs up.
23:28So...
23:29So...
23:30Why...
23:31Why bring it to America?
23:32Why bring it to America now?
23:33Yeah.
23:34Why now?
23:35Why not?
23:36Why not?
23:37Well...
23:38Well...
23:39Well...
23:40In Japan, I've been working with a lot of customers...
23:42They've been working with a lot of customers...
23:43So...
23:44So...
23:45So...
23:46Actually...
23:47Up until now...
23:48The vehicle has made its rounds and tours in Japan...
23:49And so...
23:50It's given an opportunity for a lot of Japanese enthusiasts to drive...
23:52And so...
23:53It's given an opportunity for a lot of Japanese enthusiasts to drive...
23:55And so...
23:56At those Japanese events...
23:57There were American enthusiasts and customers who attended...
24:01Saying...
24:02I know this car...
24:03And it's really famous...
24:04And I want to drive...
24:05And I'm really excited about it...
24:06And so...
24:07Bring it to America please...
24:08And so...
24:09They got a lot of feedback for that...
24:10Oh...
24:11Okay...
24:12So...
24:13It's...
24:14It's now kind of doing a world tour?
24:15Now...
24:16World tour...
24:17Just Europe...
24:18Or...
24:19America...
24:20First time overseas...
24:22First time overseas...
24:23And...
24:24And...
24:25No plans yet...
24:26It's just...
24:27This is the first step down...
24:28Okay...
24:29And for what?
24:30To get feedback...
24:31You might...
24:32Feedback...
24:33You might...
24:34Feedback...
24:35Yeah...
24:36Feedback...
24:37Regarding the whole concept itself...
24:38Like...
24:39Just the...
24:40The vehicle as well...
24:41As it sounds...
24:42You know...
24:43Okay...
24:44Because...
24:45Maybe...
24:46There's...
24:47A vehicle...
24:48That could come out of...
24:49A production vehicle...
24:50That could come out of this...
24:51So...
24:52Everything inclusive...
24:53We're asking ourselves...
24:54What else do we need to do?
24:55What should be done?
24:56What did we do correct?
24:57By bringing the car here?
24:58I mean...
24:59The challenge would be to...
25:00In bringing something like this...
25:01Is going to be that weight...
25:02And...
25:03We don't drive...
25:04Vehicles that weigh less than...
25:054,000 pounds...
25:06Very often...
25:07Driving something under...
25:082,500 pounds...
25:09Is...
25:10Is...
25:11Is...
25:12Super...
25:13Incredible...
25:14Right?
25:15And I think...
25:16The...
25:17The range here...
25:18At 60 miles...
25:19Is...
25:20Pretty limited...
25:21Yeah...
25:22And...
25:23If you were to add...
25:24If you have 3 times the battery...
25:26And get to 180...
25:27It's still gonna be...
25:29Considerably...
25:30Heavier...
25:31The range here at 60 miles is pretty limited, and if you were to add three times the battery and get to 180, it's still going to be considerably heavier, and then everything changes.
25:47So, the balance of this car will grow better.
25:53So, really focusing on crafting cars that are fun, like just really fun to drive cars, is the whole purpose.
26:05And also protecting your car, your tuning car, or just your favorite car.
26:12And so, what technology do we at Lexus have, we ask ourselves.
26:19What are you looking like, you know, so it's 2025 now, Lexus has how many, like one pure BEV on sale in the US?
26:33Just the RZ, but I assume that you're working on future full BEVs.
26:41And is like the sportiness of this gonna, is it kind of informing the future Lexus?
26:50Of course.
26:52I think we need to learn a little bit about the fun car to create a fun car.
26:59So first, there's lots to be learned from this exercise of how to craft a fun car.
27:05And so, we're taking experience from that.
27:08Right.
27:09And really trying to apply that.
27:12Of course.
27:13Of course.
27:14Let's see, I want to talk a little bit about the sound.
27:16So, you recorded the RPM from the four AGE engine all the way through the RPM range.
27:24And then you match it to throttle position?
27:27Yes.
27:28To the foot?
27:30So, we have really detailed increments of engine RPM when we're recording it.
27:41And then of course we have throttle position on a vertical axis to match it.
27:46So, we've mapped it all out.
27:48We've mapped out the sound according to throttle position.
27:51And it comes through the speakers?
27:53The door speakers?
27:54The speakers are here.
27:56Okay.
27:57Yeah.
27:58It fooled me completely.
27:59I just assumed it was...
28:00I was hearing the...
28:01I don't know what I was assuming...
28:02But I just...
28:03I wasn't thinking about the sound.
28:04The sound is the speaker's one.
28:05Of course.
28:06I was just realizing, like, I can just listen to the shift.
28:08I don't have to look.
28:09It just...
28:10It felt supernatural.
28:11We were talking about the car.
28:13There's a certain way they laid out speakers.
28:16So, that was...
28:17The speaker's one.
28:18The speaker's one.
28:19The speaker's one.
28:20The speaker's one.
28:21The speaker's one.
28:22The speaker's one.
28:23The speaker's one.
28:24The speaker's one.
28:25The speaker's one.
28:26The speaker's one.
28:27The speaker's one.
28:28So, they made the speakers as close to the body.
28:29The chassis itself as possible.
28:31And that it sort of resonate.
28:33If you had no sound.
28:35What is it?
28:36What is it?
28:37Like a train.
28:39Like a train.
28:40He's saying like riding on a just normal train.
28:42Swing.
28:43But only a little bit from the motor.
28:46And a little bit from the transmission.
28:49But otherwise...
28:50Mostly silent.
28:51Right?
28:52Like a train.
28:53Yeah.
28:54This way.
28:55If you had no sound.
28:56If you had no sound.
28:57If you had no sound.
28:58If you had no sound.
28:59If you had no sound.
29:00If you had no sound.
29:01If you had no sound.
29:02Not fun.
29:03Not fun.
29:04But you don't know when to shift.
29:06Yeah.
29:07Or it's harder to shift.
29:08Yeah.
29:09If you had no sound.
29:10If you had no sound.
29:11So, it would be only visual cue.
29:12So, is there a future world where...
29:15With everything you've learned from this.
29:17You know, how to do electric motors.
29:19Where you live at the top speed.
29:21And it works fun.
29:23It's fun with the manual.
29:24Is there a future...
29:25Is there a world where there's a Lexus sports car.
29:28That would have a manual transmission?
29:31Or is this only to protect old cars?
29:34Or is this only to protect old cars?
29:35Or is this only to study?
29:38Or is this only to protect old cars?
29:39Or is this only to protect old cars?
29:40Or is this only to protect old cars?
29:41Or is this only to protect old cars?
29:42Or is this only to protect old cars?
29:43Or is this only to protect old cars?
29:44Yeah.
29:45So, while we study...
29:46Once again, you heard the word feedback.
29:47We're gonna take that feedback.
29:48And if it's something that we feel the customers really...
29:50There's a demand.
29:51Then of course we'll look at it.
29:52Yeah, I just...
29:53Cause I've tried a couple EVs with the fake shifts.
29:56And they just feel fake.
29:57And they are fake.
29:58And they are fake.
29:59And like with the Hyundai IONIQ 5N for instance.
30:07With the fake shift on, it's two seconds slower around the track.
30:11So it just slows the car down.
30:12It does nothing.
30:13But this is the first time I've experienced an EV with a manual where it totally makes sense.
30:22It's just electric powertrain.
30:24And you've already limited the motor anyways.
30:28So, you know, you have to use the transmission.
30:31So it just logically makes sense.
30:37It was very impressive.
30:38The weight balance is similar to the original 86?
30:42It's a little bit rear heavy.
30:45Because of the bag.
30:46Yes, yes.
30:47And the motor plus inverter weighs about the same as the 4AG.
30:54The motor and inverter is the same as the 4AG.
30:56The 4AG is the same as the 4AG.
30:58The 4AG is the same as the 4AG.
31:00Lighter than the 4AG.
31:02Slightly lighter.
31:03That's why you can...
31:04Just the batteries.
31:05Right.
31:06Because I'm sure you could probably found a smaller motor, but you don't need to...
31:10You actually want something.
31:13You want a bigger motor.
31:14You want a bigger motor.
31:15You want a bigger motor.
31:16You want a bigger motor.
31:17So he says this was perfect.
31:18Right.
31:19It fits.
31:20It fits really well.
31:21Here's what I think.
31:22My feedback is, this actually sounds crazy.
31:25This might be the future of enthusiast and like luxury cars.
31:31If you wait long enough for the battery cell technology to be where it is, the higher output, more storage in a same package or lighter, or faster charging, you might have a car where enthusiasts can drive it almost daily.
31:57In fact, if this battery has the same output, but charged in 2 or 3 minutes?
32:02Hmm.
32:03So we should just park the vehicle for 10, 20 years, and just plug in different batteries.
32:13But that's all.
32:14Yeah.
32:15Okay.
32:16Okay.
32:17Okay.
32:18Okay.
32:19But that's, I mean, that's all coming, you know, like, you know, everyone's talking solid state, cut the weight in half or double the size, but also, you know, Mercedes just did a megawatt charging session.
32:30So, you know, 1,000 kilowatts in 2 and a half minutes, you know.
32:35Does Toyota have any battery breakthrough that's coming?
32:41Yeah.
32:42That might make it.
32:43We can actually have a breakthrough out of the shuttle.
32:45Yeah.
32:46Hmm.
32:47Okay.
32:48Take that as a maybe.
32:49No, I mean, I'm serious. Like, do you think it's possible where we would be able to someday own a car like this, where you can get to this level of, I've always said on this podcast, the last, um, the last barrier for EVs will be weight.
33:11Ah, so.
33:12Because of the battery, basically.
33:14So, battery technology is daily evolving and progressing.
33:15Yeah.
33:16And it just has to cross with customer expectations.
33:21So, those two have to intersect.
33:24Yeah.
33:25It's gotta be either charge speed or density.
33:28And then, it just has to cross with customer expectations.
33:33So, those two have to intersect.
33:36Yeah.
33:37Yeah.
33:38It's gotta be either charge speed or density or energy density.
33:43That will be the barrier.
33:44So, yeah.
33:45At the current weight.
33:47Right?
33:48Yeah.
33:49I mean, the problem, as you know, is that, like, you know, a modern, uh, OEM can't really sell 1983 crash technology in America.
34:00That's...
34:01That's...
34:02That's...
34:03That becomes...
34:04That becomes the issue, right?
34:05Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:06That becomes the issue, yeah.
34:07Would it, would it have been, um, easier or better if you could have put the battery in the floor?
34:15Like a, like a skateboard chassis?
34:17Um.
34:18So, if you could have put the battery in the floor, like a, like a skateboard chassis?
34:21Um.
34:22Uh, so, this vehicle just basically didn't have space for it, so we could not...
34:27Uh, so, this vehicle just physically didn't have space for it, so we could not mount it there.
34:31And there's the drive shaft, right?
34:33And everything, and so...
34:34Okay.
34:35Why not put, uh, battery in the front, and motor at the rear?
34:40Did you know that?
34:41Did you know that?
34:42Did you know that?
34:43Did you know that?
34:44Did you know that?
34:45Did you know that?
34:46Did you know that?
34:47So, one, we didn't want to cut into the vehicle.
34:50We wanted to keep it as original as possible.
34:52Right.
34:53So, that was one of the...
34:54And you need a transaxle.
34:55You need the transmission in the back to...
34:56Yeah.
34:57Transaxle.
34:58That was also an idea.
34:59But they did think about that.
35:01They did, yeah, contemplate that.
35:03But when you do that, you have to first fabricate it from scratch, remake it, and...
35:10And this one, we wanted to be able to use already available items.
35:15So, you need to go reuse the key.
35:17Yeah.
35:18And it's also lowers cost, and it's faster, too.
35:21But now we know what to do with automatic Porsche 928s.
35:25Ah, so there are other Porsche 928s.
35:27Oh, so there are other Porsche 928s.
35:28And then, we wanted to give a hint.
35:30Yeah.
35:31So, how...
35:32I know...
35:33How much would this project cost to make?
35:37I've never counted before.
35:38He's never counted before.
35:40He's never added it up.
35:41Nice!
35:42Somebody asked us on the street.
35:43I just heard you just before.
35:44OK, where did you find the chassis?
35:46Where did you find the chassis?
35:47Where did you find the chassis?
35:48Where did the chassis come from?
35:49Where did the chassis come from?
35:50Where did the chassis come from?
35:51Where does the chassis come from?
35:52It's actually used car dealership.
35:54Oh, really?
35:55Oh, that's true.
35:56Originally, 11, or did you put the 11 in front of it?
35:58Yeah, originally, 11.
35:59Originally, 11.
36:00Oh, okay.
36:01It was funny, because a guy was...
36:03When I got out of the car, there was a guy walking by the street.
36:05He said, ah, I love these people!
36:07Oh, thanks.
36:08He goes, what does this cost?
36:09And I was like, I don't know.
36:11A million bucks?
36:12And he's like, what?!
36:14And I go, well, it's not what you think it is.
36:16It's probably a million is what they spend.
36:18Time.
36:20And it's about time and development costs.
36:22But what's that?
36:24What's that?
36:26It's about that.
36:28It's about that.
36:30But of course,
36:32the power units we reuse
36:34so that wasn't too much of a cost.
36:36I think it's more labor.
36:38It's more labor and knowledge.
36:40Knowledge costs.
36:42Yeah, when I was driving, there was a guy
36:44on the street going.
36:46Oh, yeah.
36:48But this is also the neighborhood for that.
36:50Yes.
36:52So where does the car go next?
36:56Who else?
36:58Who else?
37:00We'll take the cars and coffee.
37:04Fujiara Tofu Cafe.
37:06Fujiara Cafe.
37:08And also to the Japan concept car show.
37:10Ah, JCCS.
37:12Very cool.
37:14When is that?
37:16October 11th, I think.
37:20Shout out to JCCS.
37:22Great car show.
37:24Come out and check it out.
37:26Anything else on the car you want to tell us?
37:28Do you want to ask us questions about?
37:30Do you want to ask us questions about?
37:32Yeah, yeah. We'll answer questions.
37:34Yeah, we'll answer questions.
37:36So first, thank you very much for driving the car.
37:41When we go to the car, we don't need the transmission to the motor.
37:45So internally, from their engineering standpoint, everybody said,
37:49you don't need a transmission made it to an EV motor.
37:52Are you crazy?
37:53Yeah, so.
37:54And again, before I drove it, 100% agree.
37:57Why would you?
37:59Yeah, but it just works.
38:01Again, and...
38:03It just felt like I was driving a classic car with punch,
38:09which is unlike any other old 80s anything.
38:15You know, they're all high revs.
38:17And this was just punch.
38:19And this was just punch.
38:21So actually we have a team member, a co-worker.
38:27Oh, actually a bunch of co-workers who love the A86 within Lexus.
38:31They came together to do this project.
38:34And so it was a really fun project.
38:37And everybody just unleashed.
38:39They just say, let's do this, let's try this.
38:41They didn't...
38:43Surely some of them said,
38:45Mmm, don't do this.
38:46This is a curious, right?
38:48Or no, everybody was like...
38:50I think there was a negative negative reaction from the drive.
38:54But everyone went ahead and tried to do anything.
38:56Yeah, ahead and tried to do anything.
38:58So actually, let's take on a new challenge.
39:00So they were actually proactive, very proactive.
39:02Or the boss said, no, you do it.
39:04It wasn't a boss.
39:05It wasn't a boss.
39:06It wasn't a boss.
39:07It wasn't a boss.
39:08The boss was just sort of watching over us.
39:11Okay.
39:12Yeah, I agree with Johnny.
39:14You know, we have some cars in the industry that have the fake shifting.
39:19And for this to have such a unique and a real need, yeah.
39:26I didn't... I wasn't aware that that's how it works.
39:32So I was talking to your test driver like, I can just start this in any year.
39:35And he's like, no, no, no.
39:36No, no, no.
39:37No, no, no.
39:38No, no, no.
39:39So it's...
39:40And this is very, I think, emblematic of Lexus, right?
39:43The old tagline was relentless pursuit of perfection.
39:46Sweated all the details.
39:48All the details.
39:49All the details.
39:50The sound.
39:51Fun.
39:52The catch copy is the same.
39:54Also, just back to the driving for a second.
39:56Like, you can't stall it, which is fine.
39:58And then, I accidentally...
40:03I was at a red light and accidentally put it in third instead of first.
40:06There was enough torque to start in third.
40:09Whereas, the one behind us would have stalled instantly.
40:13It's a perfect car for a student driver.
40:17Yeah.
40:18It's a perfect car to have somebody...
40:20To learn how to drive manual.
40:23So we also added the element of idling.
40:27I didn't notice that.
40:29Yeah, I was wondering about that.
40:30Okay, that's interesting.
40:31And so we also give it a little bit of a shock once you start...
40:36When the clutch engage is in.
40:37And it feels like you're about to stall, but we also simulate that.
40:40We recreate that.
40:41Oh, so I thought it was funny because I reversed it.
40:45And I thought I stalled it for a second.
40:48And I was like, I don't know how it's going.
40:50So, awesome car.
40:53I just want to ask Arai-san a little bit about his 40-year career.
40:5740-year?
40:58No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
41:00So...
41:01And also, 86 was sort of when Lexus became Lexus, right?
41:06That was about the year it was founded.
41:08You were a Toyota?
41:09Yes.
41:10Starting in 1986.
41:12Okay, and then what was your first big project?
41:16First vehicle, program...
41:18First vehicle, program...
41:19First vehicle, program...
41:20First vehicle, program...
41:21What was the first vehicle?
41:22When I was in the first vehicle, Estima, Estima?
41:25He was the first generation Estima.
41:27No power train.
41:28Yeah, power train.
41:294x4 system.
41:30Okay.
41:314x4 system for the Estima.
41:32Oh, yeah?
41:33Oh, cool.
41:34And then, anything...
41:36Any powertrain vehicles come to the US?
41:40That came to the US.
41:42So, there were four by...
41:44Which is a Toyota main?
41:46What was the Toyota main...
41:47First vehicle, Estima?
41:49The first Estima?
41:50Okay.
41:51And...
41:52Hyrux?
41:53Hyrux?
41:54Okay.
41:55Oh, like a...
41:56Like...
41:57I don't know...
41:58It was a powertrain vehicle.
42:00Yes.
42:01And probably, all of them went to the car.
42:03Because he was on the powertrain side,
42:04his work has...
42:064x4 system?
42:07Most of the 4x4s that have come to the...
42:09Oh, really?
42:10So, Hyrux Surf?
42:11Like Forerunner, Camry, C&R, and then when did you go to Lexus?
42:22Lexus, when did you go to Lexus?
42:242021.
42:25Oh, so recent.
42:27Did you work on hybrid powertrain?
42:30No.
42:31No hybrids?
42:32No.
42:33Mostly the RZ, Direct4 system.
42:36Yeah, the RZ, the Direct4.
42:39Oh, right, Direct4.
42:41Do you have a favorite? Do you have a personal favorite Toyota or Lexus car?
42:48Do you have a favorite Toyota or Lexus car?
42:52My car is NX.
42:54Oh, NX.
42:55Currently NX.
42:56Okay.
42:57And the RZ is very easy to written.
43:00RZ?
43:01Okay.
43:02Driving?
43:03Not Alphard?
43:04It's not Alphard.
43:05He loves Alphard.
43:06He loves Alphard.
43:07I love Alphard.
43:08That's the one van I really like.
43:09That's the one van I really like.
43:10That's the one van I really like.
43:11I don't know.
43:12Lexus LM?
43:13Ah, LM.
43:14Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
43:15Any classic Toyota cars?
43:18There are some old Toyota cars that I like.
43:21Yeah.
43:22That's the one van I really like.
43:25You know, I was just in Japan in April.
43:29And you know, obviously lots of Japanese cars,
43:32Toyonians that never make it here, Alphard.
43:36Is there a JDM product that you'd like to see in the US?
43:42Besides the Alphard.
43:46Besides the Alphard, everybody.
43:47Is there an electric car that you'd like to drive in the US?
43:50Do you know what Toyota Lexus group is doing here?
43:53I think it's interesting to see here.
43:55There's Alphard, right?
43:57No Alphards over here.
43:59No Alphards over here.
44:01Alphard.
44:02So maybe he would choose Alphard.
44:03It'd be nice to see driving over here.
44:05I saw the Sentry SUV here.
44:08Ah, Sentry was in Japan.
44:10That might work, yeah.
44:11That was pretty cool in America.
44:13That was pretty cool.
44:15Okay, we got one more question.
44:19We're going to put you on the spot because you're both wearing Lexus shirts.
44:23This is a car you saw on Angelus Crest.
44:27That was also at Goodwood Festival of Speed.
44:31No, no, no, but then the one that was at the Quail is a different car.
44:36And there is also shown at Monterey Car Week.
44:38What was at the Quail?
44:39There is a Lexus.
44:41There was a Lexus Sport Concept.
44:42There was a Lexus Sport Concept.
44:44What is that?
44:45Can you tell us anything about the car?
44:47Anything about the power train?
44:48Can you tell us about the power train?
44:51Because the one that I saw and the one at Goodwood had tailpipe.
44:56The one at the Quail had tailpipe.
44:58And the one at the Quail had no tailpipe.
45:01It didn't have a tailpipe.
45:03There is something about the information that you can tell us about.
45:07I'm only in charge of that car in the back.
45:11That's a good answer.
45:13Good way.
45:14Good, good, good answer.
45:15Put the knife down, put the knife down.
45:17Okay.
45:18Well, this was awesome.
45:19So we want to thank Arai-san for coming.
45:23And for the amazing Levin EV.
45:25And Toshi for trying to say.
45:27Thank you for letting me help.
45:28That was awesome.
45:29So thank you.
45:30And yeah, check out.
45:32I hope we're going to put a whole bunch of video shots of the car moving.
45:36If not, check out our social media on this.
45:38Oh, and Johnny's write up.
45:39Because Johnny's going to write the first drive.
45:41That's right.
45:41On this piece.
45:42Awesome.
45:43Cool.
45:45See you on the next one.
Be the first to comment