We’re Back! State of the EV Industry + Deep Dive with Kyle Conner | The InEVitable - video Dailymotion

MotorTrend

WE’RE BACK! The InEVitable is unstoppable and back to ask and answer all sorts of questions about the future of the car

Transcript

00:00:00Biggest pile of crap that I've ever been in is really bad.

00:00:03Clearly, they didn't want to build it.

00:00:05The car drives of it, they didn't want to build it.

00:00:07And the lease prices are amazing.

00:00:09So when you evaluate it as an $80,000 car, terrible.

00:00:13When you evaluate it as $100 a month, nothing down, now it makes sense.

00:00:19Now we're talking.

00:00:21Welcome to The Inevitable, a podcast by Motor Trend.

00:00:30Hi there.

00:00:35We're back.

00:00:35Welcome to The Inevitable.

00:00:37This is Motor Trend's podcast, our vodcast about, well, it's really about the future of the car.

00:00:43Where are we going?

00:00:43How are we going to get there?

00:00:44What are we driving?

00:00:45As always, I'm joined by Ed Lowe, and Ed's got a lot to say.

00:00:49Yes.

00:00:49So say it.

00:00:50Yes.

00:00:50Where have we been?

00:00:51Where have we been?

00:00:51The Inevitable vodcast is brought to you by, well, nobody right now.

00:00:56We would love to have a sponsor.

00:00:58So if you're interested in sponsoring our podcast, you can do one episode, you can do

00:01:02three episodes, you can do a whole season.

00:01:04Hit me up, edward.loh, L-O-H, at hurst.com.

00:01:08You can also slide into our Instagram, DMs, or wherever you see us.

00:01:12Hit us up if you want to sponsor.

00:01:13We're actively seeking one.

00:01:15You'll notice I said Hurst.

00:01:17So yes, Motor Trend is now part of the Hurst Magazine's family.

00:01:21That explains the long pause of the break we took.

00:01:24Last episode, prior to this was, I think, end of February.

00:01:27February, and we've been spending the time sort of getting acquainted to the Hurst system

00:01:32and getting this thing back on its feet.

00:01:35So there have been several changes.

00:01:36We're no longer working with our good friends at Podcast One.

00:01:39We wish them well.

00:01:40They were awesome.

00:01:41They were the best.

00:01:41They were super great.

00:01:42Miss you guys.

00:01:43Miss you guys, Alistair, Sean, Gabby.

00:01:46Gabby.

00:01:46Miss Gabby the most.

00:01:47Miss Gabby.

00:01:47You're fine.

00:01:48Yes.

00:01:49Great production partners, but we're taking this one in-house and probably more on the road

00:01:54because our budget's a little smaller.

00:01:57For instance, now we're at Hyundai-Kia Proving Grounds.

00:02:00Unless we get a great sponsor.

00:02:01Unless we get a great sponsor.

00:02:02We're at Hyundai-Kia Proving Grounds up near Mojave, the Mojave Dutch in California.

00:02:08We're actually at SUV of the year.

00:02:09And we have a great triumphant return show for you today with a great guest who's been

00:02:16on multiple times before.

00:02:18The first time we had him on, we actually broke it up into two episodes because he had

00:02:22so much to talk about.

00:02:23Might happen again this time.

00:02:24We don't know.

00:02:25But let's get into it with our guest.

00:02:29The one, the only, the man, the myth, the legend, out of specs, Kyle Connor.

00:02:34Hooray, Kyle.

00:02:35Hey.

00:02:35How's it?

00:02:36All right.

00:02:37All right.

00:02:37First question.

00:02:38How many Rivings do you own now?

00:02:40Three.

00:02:40You just bought the, you just bought the lowest, the cheapest, the dual motor, $70,000.

00:02:48Is that right?

00:02:48Yeah.

00:02:48Cheapest you can get an R1S.

00:02:50No options.

00:02:51And?

00:02:51It's awesome.

00:02:52You love it.

00:02:53Yeah.

00:02:53It's all that you need, right?

00:02:54I've been saying, Johnny, you need a quad motor.

00:02:56Okay.

00:02:56We can discuss quad versus dual all day, but, you know, that, that dual motor can do so

00:03:02much that the quad can do.

00:03:04Not everything, but it's a huge price delta to go up to the quad.

00:03:07Hey, I'm not saying it's not cheap, but yeah.

00:03:09Yeah.

00:03:09Is, is the best, I'm a cheap person.

00:03:12I like to buy cars used.

00:03:13I know you like to buy a lot of used cars.

00:03:14Yeah.

00:03:15I talked to, I won't name him because I don't think he was, uh, is, it was technically off

00:03:19the record, but it's a person, um, we both know, we all know really well who used to work

00:03:23for the company.

00:03:24And he said the best Rivian to buy used is, well, the best Rivians are the current, the

00:03:33latest, the second generation R1T, R1S, and then R1T, and then at a very far bottom in

00:03:44like fifth place at a four would be the first gen R1S.

00:03:47Is that accurate?

00:03:47Yeah.

00:03:48That's totally accurate.

00:03:48Early R1Ss, not so great.

00:03:50Early R1Ts, awesome.

00:03:52The suspension, the, the, the, the pogoing suspension, right?

00:03:54Which you can't fix.

00:03:56You can't fix it.

00:03:57It's a, it's a hardware fix.

00:03:59And it wasn't even pogoing.

00:04:00It was like just weirdly stepping out.

00:04:02I totally agree.

00:04:03Yeah.

00:04:03Right.

00:04:03They were, they were awkward.

00:04:04Yeah.

00:04:04But you're, so in your estimation, get a first gen R1T and be happy.

00:04:08First gen R1T.

00:04:08I have an early one.

00:04:09Johnny has an early one.

00:04:10Ours are actually pretty similar.

00:04:12Yeah.

00:04:12And they're freaking, I, yeah, totally awesome.

00:04:14Yeah.

00:04:15Although I will say, I, I watch you like the amount of repairs yours has gone through.

00:04:20Yeah.

00:04:20Recently, it's been a little buggy.

00:04:22Like mine's been, I mean, I'm, I'm in, I can tell you exactly, I'm at like 38,000 miles

00:04:25or something like that.

00:04:25But like, I mean, knock on wood, the air conditioning went out at like 10,000 miles and that's sort

00:04:30of been it.

00:04:31But isn't, aren't those, because of what they did with the Gen 2s, aren't they sort of, uh,

00:04:36what, they're not future-proofed, right?

00:04:37They're not future-proofed.

00:04:38They're, they're not going to be updated.

00:04:39Correct.

00:04:39They've kind of reached, and I'm sure they'll add some features over time, but they, they're,

00:04:44Gen 1 and Gen 2 are pretty close right now in the function.

00:04:47So because I have both, I can get out of one and into the other.

00:04:50Almost no difference in terms of day-to-day living.

00:04:53From here on, Gen 2 is going to kind of get.

00:04:55The fork is coming.

00:04:56Yes.

00:04:56Yeah.

00:04:57But they're in a good spot.

00:04:58Like if, if my truck never got any real improvements, I'm, you know, the only thing I really want

00:05:03is rear steer and that's never going to happen.

00:05:04That's never coming.

00:05:05And, uh, it's like, it's, it's in a good spot.

00:05:08Well, I should say that they have a job opening for someone who's an expert in a rear steer.

00:05:11I saw that.

00:05:12I'm an expert in a rear steer.

00:05:12There you go.

00:05:13Just trying to work for it.

00:05:14Not mechanically, philosophically.

00:05:16You can have a lot of jokes there about expeditimum.

00:05:19Yeah.

00:05:19Okay.

00:05:20I, that was not going to be my first question.

00:05:22My first question is because we've been off, off the air since, uh, late February.

00:05:26And I actually recorded those earlier.

00:05:28Is what's going on in the EV industry?

00:05:32Any, any big changes going on here?

00:05:34Like, uh, it all, in all seriousness, right?

00:05:39Like you're, you're one of the foremost experts on the EV industry, on vehicles, but like all

00:05:47this, he knows about charging cables.

00:05:49I know, I know, but let's, let's talk about the bigger, the bigger picture here, which

00:05:54is the, the political climate, the business climate, the, the rollback of the supposed

00:06:00EV mandate.

00:06:01Is it still inevitable?

00:06:02We are.

00:06:03Yes.

00:06:03Is it still inevitable?

00:06:04Um, our EVs, how do you feel like what's, what's going on in your head?

00:06:09Um, so lucky enough to, at least since the last time I saw you guys traveled between,

00:06:13uh, China, Europe and here quite a bit.

00:06:16And so, uh, each market has a totally different vibe now.

00:06:20I mean, it was kind of two years ago, everyone was on the same page.

00:06:23Okay.

00:06:23Let's just keep pushing the electric thing.

00:06:25And there was like, okay, some markets are ahead of the others, but everyone knew even

00:06:30just general consumers electric is coming.

00:06:32Uh, now in the U S market, I would say the general consumer, um, feels like they probably

00:06:37have more choice, which in my opinion, a good thing.

00:06:40If they want an electric car, let them buy an electric car.

00:06:42If they don't, don't.

00:06:43That's my personal opinion in Europe.

00:06:45I don't think things have changed that much.

00:06:47They're still feeling the electric push.

00:06:49What Europe is feeling is a lot of Chinese influence right now.

00:06:52Uh, you know, you drive around Germany and you start seeing great wall motors or a funky

00:06:56cats and you're like, how is this in Germany?

00:06:59This is crazy.

00:06:59I was in, uh, England not long ago and, um, I wrote in like several Chinese EVs, uh, like,

00:07:06um, SUVs, um, just like being transported around, you know, but like several, I don't

00:07:11even know the names of them and they were all seeing real good.

00:07:14They all seemed like at the level of like what American consumers can buy from like Chevy

00:07:19right now.

00:07:20Yeah.

00:07:20Um, and I'm like, I, I'm a little, I'm staring.

00:07:22I'm like, I've never even heard of that one.

00:07:24I can't remember what it was, but yeah.

00:07:25I mean, there's a bunch of new brands.

00:07:26There's a hundred new car brands in China that are like still existing and going.

00:07:30And they keep like spawning sub brands.

00:07:32Like every, every five minutes, like a cell phone company looks up with Geely and they've

00:07:36got a new brand.

00:07:37Well, that, they're consolidation is coming.

00:07:39That brings us to China, which was hardcore EV three years ago, even two years ago.

00:07:45And now, uh, the, the massive competition has driven everyone to price wars and it's

00:07:51rooted out a lot of the folks who couldn't compete.

00:07:53So it's leaving some of the bigger, at least conglomerates, whether or not specific brands,

00:07:57but the bigger car organizations.

00:07:59And to be honest, it kind of feels like the Chinese market is actually kind of stagnating

00:08:04a little bit.

00:08:05Oh really?

00:08:05Which is unusual, but it does feel softer than it was.

00:08:09This part is stagnating.

00:08:10Sales of electric cars.

00:08:11Okay.

00:08:12No.

00:08:12Not going to combustion, just car sales in general.

00:08:15Yeah.

00:08:15I mean, we're probably heading globally into some sort of recession typey thing, but, but

00:08:20China was, I mean, they were selling over a million EVs a month.

00:08:24Yeah.

00:08:24Right.

00:08:24So the total car market in China, so U.S. is like 16, 17 million, 15 million, something

00:08:30like that, depending on the year.

00:08:31Right.

00:08:31China was like 26 million.

00:08:34Wow.

00:08:34And like half of that was EVs or something.

00:08:37Right.

00:08:37Or I can Google it, but it was, it was, it was big.

00:08:39But I haven't heard anyone else say it's stagnating.

00:08:42Yeah.

00:08:42I feel like the news and the conversation in the U.S. is always a year or two behind what

00:08:47is actually happening in China.

00:08:48Interesting.

00:08:49And every time I go there and now I have some really good friends that live there that

00:08:52are like into the EV thing.

00:08:54I'm just hearing like totally different reports from them, from what the general consensus

00:08:59is here and there.

00:08:59And the general, I mean, what's the general consensus is?

00:09:02Well, the general consensus is everything Kyle said in five years ago, right?

00:09:06There were something like, I don't know, you can, you can, various puns said 200, 400

00:09:11EV startups, big brands, little brands.

00:09:15Yeah.

00:09:15This is the great thing about, right?

00:09:17Authoritarian governments, right?

00:09:18They, they rule, they can set a target 30 years out and then they'll do things like

00:09:23incentivize the populace to switch to, you should say, that's a thing about, I know, I

00:09:27know, but it's not, it's, it's not like the U S where we're changing, we're changing our

00:09:33president every four years and the, and there's a dramatic pendulum swinging back and forth.

00:09:37Right.

00:09:37So China, the communist party, they master plan, all this stuff.

00:09:41They've basically are making all these brands fight like dogs, like, and only the strongest

00:09:47will survive.

00:09:48And the strongest one currently looks like BYD, you probably, uh, Xpeng's in there.

00:09:54There might be a couple of state owned ones.

00:09:56NIO's got some pretty cool tech.

00:09:58But then if you talk to some of our colleagues at Western OEMs, they're like, a lot of those

00:10:02Chinese brands that you love, they are not, they are not profitable at all.

00:10:05Actually, NIO's kind of maybe not going to, I don't know, we'll see.

00:10:08We'll see.

00:10:08It's not looking great right now.

00:10:09I mean, I'm, I'm just old enough to remember back in like the eighties and nineties when it

00:10:15was like, Japan's taking over.

00:10:16Japan, uh, they were going to destroy the U S car market.

00:10:19There won't be any more American cars.

00:10:21Um, they just bought Pebble Beach.

00:10:22They're going to buy the state of California.

00:10:24We will now like, it's, it's all doom and gloom.

00:10:27And then like 1996 happened.

00:10:28No one even thinks about Japan anymore.

00:10:30And I think there's some parallels there in the bigger picture problem as, as Kyle mentioned

00:10:34is like the sales are way down.

00:10:36There are, there are macroeconomic problems in China dealing with, uh, the aging population.

00:10:40There are a bunch of college aged, uh, college graduates that can't find jobs.

00:10:45They're all going back to school for graduate degrees or there, there's this whole phenomenon

00:10:48of lying flat where they're just deciding not to work.

00:10:51They're going to live at home.

00:10:52So, and the population, is that still an option?

00:10:55It's an option.

00:10:56It's an option.

00:10:57Right.

00:10:57So, but let's, let's pivot and focus a little bit more about on the U.S. side because China

00:11:02is like, China's China.

00:11:03I'm not really believing in any of their cars until they come here, but let's talk about

00:11:07cars.

00:11:07And crash test.

00:11:07I want to see crash test results.

00:11:08Oh, well, they're looking great in Europe, the crash test stuff so far.

00:11:11I want to see American crash test.

00:11:12I mean, yeah, Euro NCAP's harder than IHS, isn't it?

00:11:15No, no.

00:11:16No?

00:11:16Oh, no.

00:11:17No, IHS cranks it up constantly.

00:11:20Yeah, yeah.

00:11:21Well, let's start crashing stuff because everything looks too easy to me.

00:11:24Yeah.

00:11:24If everything gets five stars, how do you know it's better?

00:11:27Exactly.

00:11:27That's why IHS, not everything does get five stars.

00:11:30They actually keep ratcheting it.

00:11:31Well, yeah, but they're moving the goalposts, not so much on the physical, the structure

00:11:36stuff.

00:11:37They're moving it on the ADAS.

00:11:38Yeah, headlights.

00:11:39The headlights.

00:11:39That's important stuff.

00:11:40Yeah.

00:11:40Okay.

00:11:41But I want to talk about some recent to us news.

00:11:45One is which I keep getting served Tesla Instagram ads about how the $7,500 EV credits

00:11:54going away in like two weeks.

00:11:57And then I just heard that Ram is going to kill the Ram full battery electric.

00:12:05Which doesn't exist.

00:12:06They're only going to sell the E-Rev.

00:12:08Chargers look like they're all going to go back to being KME powered.

00:12:12Who's in the best shape from the U.S. car market?

00:12:18Not just U.S. brands.

00:12:20I'm including Toyota and the Germans and whatever, right?

00:12:22And then who's in the worst shape?

00:12:24Yeah, it's so hard.

00:12:25I mean, I'm so in the weeds on this stuff that it's a bit difficult to look at the actual

00:12:29sales numbers.

00:12:30What does it mean you're in the weeds?

00:12:31Like I'm into the actual product of what is the right or wrong car.

00:12:35In terms of what consumers actually do with that information and how does it affect a brand,

00:12:40that's not my area of expertise.

00:12:42But I can guess and spitball.

00:12:44Man, I just want to know what's going to happen in two weeks when the $7,500 credit goes

00:12:50away.

00:12:50So they're also doing this thing where you can get a binding contract before the end

00:12:55of this month and your tax credit will retain by the time you take delivery.

00:13:00Right.

00:13:00But let's go look at a year in the future.

00:13:02Meaning like you agree to buy one.

00:13:03Yeah.

00:13:04Like you sign something now and you can't take delivery until November or December.

00:13:07But let's go look at fast forward a year once the $7,500 credit.

00:13:10I don't actually think it makes that much of a difference though.

00:13:12Yeah, I don't think so either.

00:13:13I think the automakers will just have to do what they do, which is sell good products.

00:13:18And again, it just opens up more choice.

00:13:21I'm not a huge fan of deeply incentivizing the sale of an electric car.

00:13:25I understand combustion like fuels are deeply incentivized or subsidized.

00:13:31Did you see that report where it was like over $31 billion a year go to fossil fuels?

00:13:34It's insane.

00:13:35And then they're like, then that's probably a way under number.

00:13:38Like if you actually look at everything else.

00:13:40Totally.

00:13:40And I'm not a great macro economist, but I would say, you know, most people that are

00:13:45getting the $7,500 tax credit may not really need it towards their next car.

00:13:50Right.

00:13:50So I'm okay that that goes away.

00:13:52I think it means American automakers and, you know, any automaker that's selling here

00:13:57really needs to step it up and say, not only are you going to get an electric car,

00:14:01it's going to be a better experience than having a combustion car.

00:14:04Yeah.

00:14:04And they don't, they seem to be hesitant to do that.

00:14:06Yeah.

00:14:06When they're still selling combustion cars.

00:14:09A lot of that split brand right now is, in short term, probably puts brands in a good

00:14:14position because they can change the mix of what they're selling.

00:14:17Right.

00:14:17And that keeps them alive.

00:14:19Which way is the wind blowing.

00:14:20But then there's these new startup automakers that are electric only.

00:14:23Tesla, Rivian, Lucid come to mind.

00:14:25Damn, I don't know what's going to happen with them.

00:14:27I mean, I think Tesla probably should be okay.

00:14:32They've weathered worse storms.

00:14:34And, but then with Rivian and Lucid, that's going to be interesting.

00:14:39I would just say real quick, like most Rivians and Lucids aren't eligible.

00:14:42They're too expensive anyways.

00:14:43Unless you lease them.

00:14:45Oh, right.

00:14:45They added that in.

00:14:46Right.

00:14:46You know, lease is how everyone gets it.

00:14:47Right, right, right.

00:14:48No one is actually buying electric cars.

00:14:50I forget the numbers, but it's like an insane proportion of leasing.

00:14:53So then you just have manufacturer incentives and, you know, hopefully, you know, I don't

00:14:57know what that's going to do to the used car market, but it's going to be interesting.

00:15:01I'm going to be really keeping a close eye on it.

00:15:03I don't think anyone can predict the short-term effect.

00:15:06The long-term effect, I think, stays the same.

00:15:08We're eventually going to get to more EVs.

00:15:10That's going to be a thing.

00:15:11It just might get pushed a little bit.

00:15:13Okay.

00:15:13So you mentioned startups, and those are the established startups.

00:15:17I want to hear about three new brands.

00:15:20Tello, Slate, and then also Ford's F-U-E-V, which I'd love to name.

00:15:26What about Scout?

00:15:27Do we care about Scout?

00:15:27Oh, really?

00:15:29Yeah, I know.

00:15:30Well, let's start with Slate and Tello, or Tello first.

00:15:33Do you spend any time with those guys?

00:15:35Yeah.

00:15:36So my colleagues have done both of those cars.

00:15:39So Slate, first of all, that whole marketing campaign was based off of having the $7,500

00:15:44tax credit.

00:15:46And so now it's, you know, those are quite a big percentage difference.

00:15:48That's a big percentage.

00:15:49Then you've also got Ford making a direct competitor to that with a much larger engineering

00:15:55team and a much more established brand that we know can get it through to production.

00:15:59And also isn't, I mean, my problem with Slate, if you're not familiar, here's our $20,000

00:16:06car, right?

00:16:07Or a big truck thing.

00:16:09But then it's like, oh, it's got 150 miles of range.

00:16:14I don't want that.

00:16:15I want the bigger battery pack.

00:16:16There's no idea what it costs.

00:16:17They won't say.

00:16:18And so, like, the one that probably nobody except for you wants, the super cheapo one,

00:16:24like, the actual one might be double the price.

00:16:26Yeah, it might be $35,000, $38,000.

00:16:28$60,000 for the two motors and a big battery in an SUV back.

00:16:32Yeah, or like, I actually want a speaker in there.

00:16:35Right.

00:16:35So you're making fun of the modular, low-cost approach?

00:16:39I think it's cool.

00:16:40I think it's cool.

00:16:40I just, why not announce pricing?

00:16:42It just seems a little scammy to me.

00:16:44How could they in this environment?

00:16:45Well, or just say...

00:16:46Just they commit to it, right?

00:16:47I mean, they commit it to a base price.

00:16:49Also, let's recall the leading American EV manufacturer and their claims of pricing and how true they've kept.

00:16:58Like, a Cybertruck for $39,000.

00:17:01Or a Roadster.

00:17:02Go back.

00:17:03A Roadster 2.

00:17:03Go back.

00:17:04Oh, that's an amazing story.

00:17:05How is he not in prison?

00:17:07That's called theft.

00:17:08But if you go back to, remember when the Model S came out, and he was explaining how it was the same price as a Ford Taurus?

00:17:15And they're like, there was a whole bunch of variables in there.

00:17:17Then you had to value your time at like, what was it, like $500 an hour?

00:17:21Nice.

00:17:22Okay.

00:17:22Great.

00:17:22It's like, because you don't have to go to the gas station.

00:17:24Right.

00:17:25And if you value your time at $500 an hour...

00:17:27Okay, so we think Slate definitely has some problems.

00:17:32Tello.

00:17:32Tello, great design.

00:17:34Really cool looking truck.

00:17:36I mean, it should be fast.

00:17:37The thing is, there's like 12 people that work at Tello.

00:17:39And I'm not knocking them.

00:17:40They've done a lot for a really small team.

00:17:42It just isn't Ford Motor Company.

00:17:44You know what I mean?

00:17:45Like, they've got to get through homologation, durability testing, all of these things.

00:17:49Where are they at, though?

00:17:49Because we had them on the show.

00:17:51I don't know.

00:17:51Oh, we just had, I think we had our world's tallest man, Alex Lanz, go out and drive one.

00:17:57I agree.

00:17:58I also think the timing, I'm sure when, first of all, back on Slate, Slate's rollout was awesome for a number of reasons.

00:18:06A, they were like super stealth.

00:18:07Nobody had like heard of them.

00:18:08And then all of a sudden, these cars started popping up.

00:18:10And they put a ton of them out on the streets.

00:18:13And they were all mocked up differently in like different, you know, colorways.

00:18:17When they did their rollout, I think they pulled out like nine different prototype Tello vehicles.

00:18:22Sorry, Slate vehicles.

00:18:24I went to the Tello launch in LA.

00:18:27And they were like, here's our one.

00:18:28Yeah.

00:18:28And it's, and it was.

00:18:30Remember, Carole Shelby had one Shelby.

00:18:31He just kept painting it.

00:18:32So you can do it.

00:18:33To your point.

00:18:33At the end of the day, like, I wish all of these well.

00:18:35Because, in fact, like for my use case, the Tello, the Slate, the Ford thing, that's actually kind of the car I want to have.

00:18:43To just drive around town and do stuff, you know, at our spot and like move things around.

00:18:47Like, they're great.

00:18:48The Tello seems to be the most interesting to me.

00:18:51They're in 50 miles of range.

00:18:52It's supposed to have the interior cargo capacity of a Toyota Tacoma and the footprint of a Mini Cooper.

00:18:58Right.

00:19:00It's crazy short front end.

00:19:02How's it going to pass crash?

00:19:03And I know people want little K pickup trucks.

00:19:06That's something that.

00:19:06That's the white space.

00:19:07Yeah.

00:19:07Like a smaller pickup truck than what's currently.

00:19:10A Maverick.

00:19:12Well, maybe, yeah, just a little bit smaller than the Maverick.

00:19:14Because Tacomas, Colorado's, Rangers are all too big.

00:19:17They're big, but they also have no space.

00:19:19It's weird.

00:19:20It's like, like, the interior of the Colorado is like shocking to me.

00:19:23It's like there's nowhere to put sunglasses.

00:19:25I know.

00:19:26That is crazy.

00:19:27Yeah.

00:19:27So, anyways, but so I, like, same thing.

00:19:31Like, I want all these things to succeed.

00:19:33I'm just like, that Tello's like, where's it been?

00:19:36Like, what's.

00:19:36Well, that's the thing.

00:19:37It's hard to, like, get excited about something that clearly is not on the market and maybe a little bit farther away than the brands would like you to think.

00:19:44Right.

00:19:44Because we've even seen, like, for example, startup automakers like Lucid, I was driving the Gravity.

00:19:50Like, that is unfinished software at the moment.

00:19:52And so that's a pretty big established.

00:19:54Which, why?

00:19:55Because the AERIS software finally made it decent enough that it's like it's not the first thing owners talk about.

00:20:01I couldn't get the car to turn on for 20 minutes last night.

00:20:03So maybe I'm a little salty.

00:20:04But I was sitting in the back of a dark parking lot trying to move.

00:20:06You should be soft.

00:20:07The car should turn on.

00:20:08That's.

00:20:09I was like, just.

00:20:10I'm like, key card on the thing.

00:20:11We'll get to the gravity.

00:20:12We're actually going to get into the gravity in a second.

00:20:15So my thing is, like, it's.

00:20:16I try not to cover them too closely on my channels.

00:20:19And I try not to think about them too much.

00:20:21Because I desperately want any of them to work.

00:20:24And I will happily be one of the first customers to get in.

00:20:27Like, I'll reserve.

00:20:28I reserve the slate.

00:20:28Like, I'm in on that.

00:20:29I canceled my Cybertruck deposit and put it down on the Tello.

00:20:32Yeah.

00:20:33Cool.

00:20:33I'm in.

00:20:33That seems like the coolest one of the bunch, if I'm honest.

00:20:36I just, you know, kudos until they're on sale.

00:20:38Where are you on the.

00:20:39Well, yeah.

00:20:40The Ford.

00:20:41Where are you on the Ford?

00:20:42Because you seem to be bullish on the fact that Ford's got a lot of engineering might.

00:20:46But we've also discussed how some of these bigger companies can't get out of their own way on some of this stuff.

00:20:51Yeah.

00:20:51But I like how Ford locked that whole engineering team in a different building in California.

00:20:56Yeah.

00:20:56And just said, here's a check.

00:20:58Blank check.

00:20:59Go do what you got to do.

00:21:00Right.

00:21:01And then they hired, like, some pretty cool people.

00:21:03Doug Field, right.

00:21:04And, like, they are, I think, going to have the best opportunity to nail this one.

00:21:09I don't know if they will.

00:21:11Sometimes Fords are always, like, great, and then there's always the one but.

00:21:14Yeah.

00:21:14But.

00:21:15We call everything twice.

00:21:16Exactly.

00:21:17No, I remember we had, you know, Doug Field on.

00:21:19And we asked, we said, well, why do you have to have, like, two buildings with Ford?

00:21:24And he's like, look, some of our guys want to go to work in a bathroom.

00:21:26Like, that's fine.

00:21:29That doesn't fly in Dearborn.

00:21:30Sure.

00:21:30Exactly.

00:21:31Different cultures.

00:21:32Well, I just, I'm a little worried because, honestly, I saw the press release.

00:21:36And it's come through.

00:21:37And I was like, let's tune in.

00:21:38I saw Farley get up there and talk about it.

00:21:40And then Doug Field talked about it.

00:21:41This is now, like, what, five years into Doug's tenure since leaving Apple and Tesla.

00:21:48Now, he is, for those who don't know, Doug is a guy who did Model 3.

00:21:51Yeah.

00:21:51And the iPhone.

00:21:52And so, well, parts of the iPhone.

00:21:54So, like, or parts of the Apple car, actually.

00:21:56Where?

00:21:57Yeah, but the iPhone.

00:21:57Where's the thing?

00:21:58Because it's still not going to be out two years?

00:22:01Yeah, 2027.

00:22:02I don't know.

00:22:03That's the thing.

00:22:03It's just got to be good.

00:22:04It's hard to get excited about it.

00:22:05But I do think out of any of the brands you mentioned, Ford, for sure, can get it across

00:22:10the goalpost in terms of just money that they can throw at it.

00:22:13Sure.

00:22:13So, that's the big difference, I think, here.

00:22:16Slate also has some pretty strong financial backing and a lot of automaker executives working

00:22:22there.

00:22:22So, that's a very professional team.

00:22:23I mean, a lot of ex-Tesla.

00:22:25Yeah.

00:22:25A lot of people that kind of have left Tesla for all kinds of reasons.

00:22:28Late is an anagram for Tesla.

00:22:30Did you know that?

00:22:31Yes.

00:22:31I saw that in their presentation.

00:22:33Late.

00:22:33There's a whole bunch of people.

00:22:34I saw you saw this at IAA, and I think they don't come online until 2027, 2028, but Kia

00:22:41is sort of doing all this stuff.

00:22:45And remember, they have the SV, what are they calling it?

00:22:49The little Kia work vehicles?

00:22:51Oh, the PV.

00:22:52PV.

00:22:53Yeah.

00:22:53So, remember, they have a van body on it.

00:22:55Yes.

00:22:55And when I saw it at wherever I saw it, they can drop a pickup body on it.

00:23:01Yeah.

00:23:01And so, it's super modular.

00:23:02And I remember, what I like about Koreans is, like, I kind of feel like when they say

00:23:08they're going to do something, it just happens.

00:23:09Yeah.

00:23:10And I said, when are we going to see this?

00:23:11And they're like, 2028.

00:23:12You will totally, the crazy factory will be built.

00:23:15Yeah.

00:23:16And there will be level four autonomy on the roads, on sale in the U.S., 2028.

00:23:20Wow.

00:23:21Yeah.

00:23:21Did you?

00:23:22Don't know about timing.

00:23:23Did you learn anything about the PVs?

00:23:26Yeah.

00:23:26Not a good name.

00:23:26I looked at the PV5, which is the production one.

00:23:28That's a big van.

00:23:29I think the first one.

00:23:29It also debuts their new operating system, which is very Tesla-like, with, like, climate

00:23:33control on the bottom and map as the native home menu.

00:23:37I thought it was a really nice van.

00:23:39Storage was unbelievable.

00:23:41Oh, that's the one that's just cubby holes everywhere.

00:23:43Everything you touch opens.

00:23:44The floor opens up.

00:23:45It's just insane and looks great.

00:23:48It's a really approachable, friendly vehicle.

00:23:49I really think the Koreans, with their EGMP stuff, which isn't always high voltage, just,

00:23:54you know, that architecture.

00:23:56Man, they kind of nailed that thing.

00:23:58It's really good.

00:23:59Yeah.

00:23:59I don't really get excited about, like, you know, work vans.

00:24:03Right.

00:24:04I do, too, actually.

00:24:06Yeah.

00:24:07Whatever.

00:24:07It's, like, something I don't really have a need for in my life.

00:24:09But I remember looking at, like, they told me the whole ecosystem of the PV and how,

00:24:13like, the big giant van will go to one spot and the little vans will unload from it.

00:24:17And I'm, like, this is, like, as a little kid, you just, you know, you're playing with

00:24:21trucks.

00:24:21Let's bring it back to the original thesis, which is, like, where are we since we were

00:24:26off air?

00:24:27And since that February time frame, Charger EV has come out.

00:24:33Yeah.

00:24:34That was a disaster.

00:24:36Any other thoughts?

00:24:37Like, biggest pile of crap that I've ever been in is really bad.

00:24:40No, hang on, though.

00:24:41But because, you know, when you say biggest pile of crap, like, I actually go to the Dodge

00:24:45Nitro.

00:24:46So what was so, what was so extra crappy from your point of view about the Charger?

00:24:54Yeah.

00:24:54So, I mean, I can go on in the nitty-gritty of details forever.

00:24:58Five minutes.

00:24:59But the Dodge Charger EV, first of all, looks really cool.

00:25:02I think they did a nice job on the design.

00:25:04Do you like the two-door or the four-door there?

00:25:05I prefer the two-door, which is probably the only car I prefer a two-door in over a four-door

00:25:10because I'm a four-door guy.

00:25:11I'm weird.

00:25:12I also like the IQL over the IQ.

00:25:13You've gotten to stop talking about design.

00:25:15Yeah.

00:25:16Really, every video he does, I'm not a design guy.

00:25:18No kidding.

00:25:19Yeah.

00:25:19Yeah, I'm really not.

00:25:21But so from a fundamental standpoint, the Charger and Challenger has always been, to me,

00:25:27that is one of the last true muscle cars that we got in our market.

00:25:30I mean, big V8s.

00:25:31Sure.

00:25:32Love Hellcats.

00:25:33I'm a huge fan of all of that.

00:25:34They're great.

00:25:34I know it's not for this podcast, but I'm a...

00:25:36Hey, they're great.

00:25:37I haven't for a year.

00:25:38Yeah.

00:25:38I'm a Hellcat enthusiast.

00:25:39Love it.

00:25:40Yeah.

00:25:41So then you go and you say, okay, this is our electric one going out.

00:25:46So then it's got to be like, okay, if you had to make a muscle car electric, what is like

00:25:50the first thing it should be able to do?

00:25:52Burnout.

00:25:52Yeah.

00:25:53And it does spin the tires, but it spins the wrong tires.

00:25:57Oh, it spins the fronts?

00:25:57Spins the fronts.

00:25:58And so the weight comes off the front because they did equal power front and rear, and you're

00:26:02doing a front wheel burnout.

00:26:03So I'm sitting at the launch watching all these content creators, everyone going, wow,

00:26:06it spins the tires.

00:26:07I'm like, no, it's the wrong ones.

00:26:10What launch?

00:26:10Were you on the video launch or the journalist launch?

00:26:13Video launch.

00:26:14Because they have no idea about everything.

00:26:15Yeah.

00:26:16They're just like, what should I say about the car again?

00:26:18Okay.

00:26:19That's what I experienced.

00:26:20But anyway, it was just a, that's one thing.

00:26:24The other thing is driving dynamics wise, if you dig into it.

00:26:27I heard it was great, like on the freeway.

00:26:30Yeah.

00:26:30So it's a cruiser.

00:26:31Okay.

00:26:31Yeah.

00:26:31But then it, okay.

00:26:32So you have to evaluate it.

00:26:34Is it a muscle car?

00:26:35Is it an electric car?

00:26:37I talk about it as an EV.

00:26:38As an EV, there are some qualities to it.

00:26:41It's got a relatively big battery.

00:26:42Uh, it's a low voltage system architecture, even though Stella large can support high voltage.

00:26:47They chose to keep it low voltage, but it charges okay.

00:26:49Like it does 500 amps around 200 kilowatts, uh, you know, pretty deep in the pack.

00:26:53It's fine.

00:26:54There is zero route planning.

00:26:56Oh, there is.

00:26:57Why?

00:26:57Don't know.

00:26:58They tried telling me there was route planning.

00:27:00So I put in, you know, Colorado from where I was in Phoenix.

00:27:03And it's like, I'm at 80% state of charge.

00:27:05You can charge in six miles at a level two station.

00:27:07Like that is not how that works.

00:27:10Uh, so zero route planning in a brand new electric car that they're expecting a new

00:27:14audience.

00:27:14That's going to leave everyone stranded.

00:27:16Right.

00:27:16Then in terms of driving, uh, dynamics, the whole one pedal driving was terribly tuned.

00:27:21So you come off the throttle, the car decelerates, then it smooths out, it coasts, and then jams

00:27:26the friction brakes.

00:27:27I'm like, wow, how hard can it be to just tune a nice speed profile in the car?

00:27:31And the list goes on and on and on.

00:27:33Yeah.

00:27:34So it just seems as a general statement, like, um, not even Stellantis specifically, but

00:27:40like so many manufacturers are hesitant to just do good one pedal driving.

00:27:44All you gotta do is copy what Tesla does.

00:27:46They freaking nailed it.

00:27:47Just you see a red light or yellow light, you take your foot off the throttle.

00:27:51And by the time you get to the line, it's stopped.

00:27:54And it's been doing that for a decade.

00:27:55Yep.

00:27:55Like, how can that be hard to copy?

00:27:58I genuinely don't know.

00:27:59You know what I mean?

00:28:00It's so crazy to me.

00:28:01Um, what I heard from you and then a lot of other people that were on the Charger launch

00:28:06was that everyone who was employed by Dodge was like, oh, we're really sorry about this

00:28:13car.

00:28:13Like, yes, the good one's coming in a year.

00:28:15Yes.

00:28:16Like, what the hell is that?

00:28:17That was the whole, I spoke to as many EV people as I could on that.

00:28:21And I'm like, guys, what's the deal with this?

00:28:22I talked to the chief engineer who didn't know the difference between kilowatt and kilowatt

00:28:26hour.

00:28:26I'm sure she's a very nice person, but I was just like, she didn't know the speed of the

00:28:29capacity of the onboard charger and then gave me the wrong units.

00:28:32And I'm like, you just clearly aren't in it.

00:28:34And I think in order to build one, I even had a sidebar off the record conversation.

00:28:38I think now it's okay to say it with one of the powertrain engineers.

00:28:40I'm like, why don't you go work for a company that you can actually do good work at?

00:28:43He's like, I know I'm kind of looking.

00:28:45So it was really rough from a, uh, like clearly they didn't want to build it.

00:28:51The car drives as if they didn't want to build it.

00:28:53And the lease prices are amazing.

00:28:55So when you, when you evaluate it as an $80,000 car, terrible.

00:28:59When you evaluate it as a hundred bucks a month, nothing down.

00:29:04Now it makes sense.

00:29:05Now we're talking, now we're talking early, early in this launch.

00:29:08I had one in LA, uh, drove it around and people, they love it.

00:29:12They love the way it looks.

00:29:13Yeah, it looks good.

00:29:13When you get into parts of LA, they're like, what's under the hood?

00:29:16I'm like, it's electric.

00:29:17Then it goes.

00:29:17My lunch.

00:29:18With its optional front trunk.

00:29:20Yeah.

00:29:20Oh, that's so weird.

00:29:21Yeah.

00:29:21Why, and why not just do frunks?

00:29:23I don't like, there's so much weird hesitancy.

00:29:25Like, like, like do a frunk.

00:29:28Like, just like, like, like the Cadillac Vistic, which is an awesome EV in every way.

00:29:33Until you open the hood.

00:29:34You open the hood and it's like Darth Vader's chest plate got exploded.

00:29:38Like, you could, so the Vistic is a bloated Lyric and you can see where they stretched

00:29:43the metal over the Lyric body.

00:29:45Sure.

00:29:46But, but, but like, like, again, you know, Tesla, they figured out like the real fundamentals

00:29:52of the EV game.

00:29:53Like have a frunk.

00:29:54Yeah.

00:29:55That's why they're so popular.

00:29:56It just works.

00:29:57Yeah.

00:29:58It just works.

00:29:59And the software integration.

00:30:00It, it's no longer about a car.

00:30:01It's an entire ecosystem.

00:30:02Does it pair well with your phone?

00:30:03Can you share it to someone else?

00:30:04Right.

00:30:05It is like a mandatory requirement for, for my lifestyle and you still can't buy any

00:30:10legacy OE, uh, car with dog mode and VinFast has it.

00:30:15Oh, is VinFast still around?

00:30:17I don't know.

00:30:18But, uh.

00:30:19I see a lot of VinFast and Viskars, but I know there's free.

00:30:22Right.

00:30:23It might be now when this podcast airs.

00:30:25Like, we don't know.

00:30:26This is what kills VinFast.

00:30:27All right.

00:30:28Let me, let me pivot here real fast.

00:30:29Cause then I want to, I want us to try hopping into this gravity and go and then talk about

00:30:32that as we drive, which will be a new feature.

00:30:34But before we go, before we do that, um, cause you were talking about route planning and

00:30:38how terrible it was in the charger.

00:30:40Can you just talk about what's the state of charging in, in America?

00:30:45I mean, you do travel so much.

00:30:47Your road tripping is a real part of your, your content creation process.

00:30:49I mean, it's, it's gotten better, right?

00:30:52Naxx is, and that's actually a big one.

00:30:53Naxx is now on board and a lot of manufacturers that we now have adapters coming out of both

00:30:58ends.

00:30:59We have both NACS, NCC.

00:31:00We live in an adapter society now.

00:31:02Adapter society.

00:31:03What's it been like?

00:31:04Is it, is it going to be better?

00:31:07When does it get really good?

00:31:08Yeah.

00:31:09When, when do we just stop talking about how, but a paving ass charging is?

00:31:11I mean, I kind of feel like we're there.

00:31:13I mean, except until you get to California, then it goes to shit, which makes no sense.

00:31:17Yeah.

00:31:18I have a theory.

00:31:19I'll tell you my theory.

00:31:20Oh, back up.

00:31:21Really?

00:31:22Like what?

00:31:23It goes anywhere else except California, which is why I'm driving an M5 this week and not

00:31:26an EV.

00:31:27Let me give you the context of why that is though.

00:31:28Okay.

00:31:29So California has massive EV adoption.

00:31:31Yes.

00:31:3220% of new cars sold in California.

00:31:33We have too many.

00:31:34We have too many EV.

00:31:35For the last three years, every, every quarter, it's been over 20%.

00:31:40Like we like was the peak, I think was like the end of 24 was 21 point something percent.

00:31:46Even the third quarter of 25 was over 20%.

00:31:49Yeah.

00:31:50So we've added 3 million EVs in the last three years.

00:31:53The number of chargers have not a fast, we're talking about fast chargers here.

00:31:57Yes.

00:31:58Has not gone up.

00:31:59The number of renters has gone up and some people that rent, landlords never let you put

00:32:02in a charger.

00:32:04That's what you mean.

00:32:05This is the California problem.

00:32:06You mean fast chargers suck in California.

00:32:08Yeah.

00:32:09Fast chargers suck.

00:32:10I mean, if you have access to a home charger in the state of California, an EV works perfect

00:32:13because by the time you get to the range of where you need to recharge, you're out in

00:32:17the desert, you're somewhere else and you can charge easily out there.

00:32:19Yeah.

00:32:20Or you charge at night.

00:32:21You get, you get to where you're going and you plug in on level two at night.

00:32:22At your hotel.

00:32:23Yeah.

00:32:24Totally.

00:32:25It's when you're in LA and you're like, I can go five days on this charge and then you

00:32:28have to recharge.

00:32:30That's when it doesn't work.

00:32:31So I.

00:32:32It doesn't work because.

00:32:33When you are, when you do find an Electrify America or a charge point.

00:32:38It's full.

00:32:39Someone else is on it.

00:32:40With 10 cars.

00:32:41Yeah.

00:32:42Because they just get hammered so hardcore and people don't treat charging equipment nicely.

00:32:46It's not theirs.

00:32:47You know, cables get, get either stolen or broken.

00:32:49The connectors get knocked on the ground.

00:32:51The actual power modules are not maintained to the standard that they should be.

00:32:55So you get D rated.

00:32:56But.

00:32:57And lines.

00:32:58And there's three, like, like, like where I live 0.8 miles away is an EA station that

00:33:03has three.

00:33:04Is that La Kenyatta?

00:33:05Uh, no, I'm in, I'm near Glendale.

00:33:06Oh, okay.

00:33:07But there's three.

00:33:08And then if you go the other direction about, about a mile, there's three.

00:33:12And you go to anyone, 24 hours a day, they're all full and there's like six to eight cars

00:33:18waiting.

00:33:19Well, even one up in like Montrose or La Crescento, there's no people.

00:33:22But I want the latest.

00:33:23The NAX hasn't, the NAX adoption, the opening up of, of Tesla superchargers hasn't helped

00:33:28us at all?

00:33:29No, no.

00:33:30It definitely has.

00:33:31I just think also they're slammed in Southern California as well.

00:33:33You go to some of these big sites that they have and they're pretty busy.

00:33:35They're slammed, but also they haven't increased the cable length at all.

00:33:38So like, uh, you know, F1, Lightning's and Rivian's like, we can discuss that.

00:33:43Yeah.

00:33:44You know, and like, so like Tesla's dropping the ball there because we're paying them.

00:33:47Like it should, it should be able to, well, let's talk about superchargers then if it

00:33:50makes sense.

00:33:51So there's a couple, there's essentially three or four major generations of superchargers

00:33:55that, that kind of fit in this timeline.

00:33:58The first was version two superchargers, which uses one cabinet, one 150 kilowatt cabinet to

00:34:04feed two dispensers, one A, one B, two A, two B.

00:34:07And that was when you'd plug in two cars and it would just go to shit.

00:34:10It would go to 72 kilowatts.

00:34:11The thing is those, none of those are open to other automakers.

00:34:14Right.

00:34:15So a lot of Tesla's early infrastructure was centered around Southern California, the desert

00:34:20getting around.

00:34:21None of those chargers are open.

00:34:22Right.

00:34:23And there's a bunch of those.

00:34:24Yeah.

00:34:25There's a surprising number of them still around.

00:34:26Yeah.

00:34:27Then version three came out, which was one 360 kilowatt cabinet feeding four posts.

00:34:33And then they can do site level load balancing, which is nice.

00:34:36But the cables this long.

00:34:37So the cables this long, they are liquid cooled, but they overheat like this.

00:34:40They're crazy.

00:34:41So you plug in a, you know, Equinox EV that needs 500 amps.

00:34:45You might get a little boost in warm weather of 500 amps and then boom, now you're down

00:34:49to slow charging.

00:34:51And the cable length is a real problem because you have to pull the car right up on there.

00:34:55You have to block two stalls.

00:34:57These can all be retrofitted with version four dispensers.

00:35:00Okay.

00:35:01I don't know why Tesla has been so slow putting in the long cable dispensers to existing sites.

00:35:07New sites are built with that same charging hardware, but with the version four dispenser,

00:35:12those work pretty well.

00:35:13And those are up to 250?

00:35:14Yeah.

00:35:15Typically with Cybertruck, they can do more with pretty much any non-Tesla.

00:35:19They're around 200 kilowatts.

00:35:21Tesla can do 250.

00:35:22Okay.

00:35:23So if you need more than 500 amps, Tesla will not deliver more than 500 amps to a non-Tesla

00:35:28vehicle right now.

00:35:29And that's for safety or just like no one knows?

00:35:32Most adapters are rated at 500 amps.

00:35:34So it's all safety.

00:35:35And the only cars that would request it would be like, nope, that shouldn't do more than

00:35:39500, but Volvo EX90 and Polestar 3 want more than 600 or more than 500 Chinese stuff.

00:35:46And then they have the new, which we haven't seen installed yet, version four sight.

00:35:50So that is a version four cabinet and a version four dispenser.

00:35:53And you haven't seen any of those yet.

00:35:55They have not been installed yet at the time of this recording, very soon.

00:35:58Those are high voltage supporting.

00:36:00So those can actually do 500 kilowatt output then.

00:36:03And they do one.

00:36:04Really?

00:36:05One 1.2 megawatt cabinet can feed eight dispensers.

00:36:08You can link them all together, do sight stuff.

00:36:09It's really cool.

00:36:10That's the future.

00:36:11Do you know where the first one's going to be?

00:36:13No.

00:36:14But I know there's some big sights planned up and down the I-5 corridor.

00:36:17And I want to talk about, because I know you just, I watched it.

00:36:20I've seen an ad for them every time I watch one of your videos.

00:36:22Iona.

00:36:23Where the hell are they?

00:36:24I want Iona's.

00:36:25What's going on?

00:36:26I think they just opened their first one on the west coast.

00:36:28Yeah, but in Vista.

00:36:29You said it's a bad location.

00:36:30There's seven people.

00:36:31Who lives in Vista?

00:36:32It's like a suburb of San Diego.

00:36:33Yeah.

00:36:34Huh.

00:36:35Oh, yeah.

00:36:35I know Vista.

00:36:36There's an EV shop I recommend.

00:36:38They're QC charge.

00:36:39Not sponsored.

00:36:40But they're great.

00:36:41Lovely.

00:36:42What a beautiful quaint beach community.

00:36:43But go to where the massive people are if you're in the business of making money off charging cars.

00:36:48Go to where the EVs are.

00:36:51Right.

00:36:52So that's the thing with Iona.

00:36:53Right now they've been very much focused on corridor charging and not so much in inner

00:36:56city charging.

00:36:57That is changing and I think they will obviously power both of those situations.

00:37:03But the needs of inner city or urban EV charging is totally different than corridor charging.

00:37:08Totally different.

00:37:09Yeah.

00:37:10Just for the folks at home.

00:37:11Iona is the new network with eight OEM partners, eight car manufacturers, which include BMW, GM,

00:37:17Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes-Benz, Stellantis, and Toyota.

00:37:20And that's the bulk of the cars sold in the U.S. or those companies.

00:37:24You'd think like if you're trying to sell EVs just start popping them everywhere.

00:37:29Well, they are.

00:37:30So they're going as fast as they can.

00:37:31I think there's over 20 or 30 sites already in just a few months, which is, dude, it's

00:37:36so slow and so hard to put in fast charging infrastructure.

00:37:39What?

00:37:40Yeah, I know.

00:37:41I mean, we can do a whole episode on that.

00:37:42I know.

00:37:43I actually know why.

00:37:44I'm like, ah, come on.

00:37:45It's transformer upgrades.

00:37:46It's permitting.

00:37:47It's actual getting the chargers there.

00:37:49Laying the lines?

00:37:50I was on that AMG video you did where they literally put in their own substation at Nardo,

00:37:54which is crazy.

00:37:55Substation was insane.

00:37:56So yeah, I mean, getting power to the location is really hard.

00:38:00So then you see innovative solutions like battery-integrated charging, which we have

00:38:03one right over here, actually.

00:38:05And that type of solution starts to make sense, but not when you need a lot of throughput.

00:38:10When you have to charge a bunch of cars, you need big power.

00:38:13And that's what Iona's planning for, which is why it takes a minute.

00:38:15Carl's talking about, we have, for our SUV of the Year program, we talked to a vendor,

00:38:19ElectricFish, who brought basically a giant battery that you can plug into an outlet, fill

00:38:28it up, and then it will, up to 350 kilowatt output, can charge up very quickly.

00:38:36I think we were estimating like three and a half F-150 Lightnings before you would need

00:38:40to fill it up again.

00:38:42But this is a solution because it won't be, to your point, only works if you're just

00:38:47charging, topping off, doing occasional charging, not if it's a busy corridor and you have multiple

00:38:52cars.

00:38:53Yeah.

00:38:54So I have a solution like this at our office in Colorado.

00:38:55I have a 230 kilowatt hour battery with two dispensers.

00:38:57It's from X-Charge, similar idea.

00:39:00And that very rarely hits zero percent.

00:39:02And for that type of use case, we do like four or five sessions in like the morning and

00:39:06then maybe 10 or 12 in the afternoon.

00:39:09But like most people aren't going zero to 100.

00:39:11They're going 70 to 90 or 30 to 80 or whatever.

00:39:14So that works pretty well.

00:39:15So I want to talk, just one thing you said.

00:39:17So when you drive, you, again, you road trip everywhere.

00:39:19You drive in Europe, you road trip all over America.

00:39:22You're saying, and you're based in Fort Collins, right?

00:39:24Just come to North Carolina.

00:39:25I was going to say, yeah, you're back in North Carolina.

00:39:27Yeah.

00:39:28That's important.

00:39:29But in those, so in those different areas, you're saying it's, it's really easy now to

00:39:33get around.

00:39:34You don't have a problem.

00:39:35You don't have a problem basically anywhere.

00:39:37Yeah.

00:39:38Key West to Alaska.

00:39:39No problem.

00:39:40California.

00:39:41California.

00:39:42Southern California.

00:39:43Big problem.

00:39:44Northern California.

00:39:45It's still kind of a problem.

00:39:46Oh, hang on.

00:39:47So, so cause I was going to say, Vegas is also, Vegas is a disaster because everyone's

00:39:53got a model Y and they are also Uber drivers and they, all they do is live in EA stations.

00:39:58Yeah.

00:39:59And, but you know, the opening of the supercharger network really helped get throughput spread

00:40:04across the entire networks right now.

00:40:06And we can discuss, like you mentioned, NAXX, did, did NAXX make the difference?

00:40:10No, but opening up access to the network made the difference.

00:40:14And so that's the bigger thing than the actual connector itself.

00:40:17Oh, speaking of connectors, cause you were talking about, uh, how much power you can send

00:40:25through them.

00:40:26Do you trust the ones you get on Amazon?

00:40:28Are there any ones you would like not?

00:40:30Yeah.

00:40:31Some of them are really dangerous.

00:40:32There's with no temperature monitoring and yeah, would, you know, make sure you're, I

00:40:36think the officials.

00:40:37What should the guys at home look for?

00:40:38Or like, is there any like, like brands to avoid is my official stance?

00:40:43I still think even from a recommendation standpoint, it's just use the adapter that your automaker

00:40:47recommends.

00:40:48I think they buy the OEM accessory if you have to.

00:40:50Don't, don't go.

00:40:51I mean, you'll see in my videos very, I'll test some adapters, but in general, I try to

00:40:55use the manufacturer recommended adapter.

00:40:57And that's smart.

00:40:58That's just, it just covers you.

00:40:59There's one on the brand.

00:41:00Lectron makes it for a lot of OEMs.

00:41:01Yeah, of course.

00:41:02But the OE ones are different than the actual one they sell as well.

00:41:05Okay.

00:41:06The Ford branded Electron one has extra safety stuff in it than just the regular off the shelf

00:41:10Electron, not knocking them.

00:41:11Okay.

00:41:12And I'm sure it'll work fine.

00:41:13And most of them will work fine for like the first year or two, but then they'll get corroded.

00:41:18They start to build up resistance.

00:41:20And the way most of these adapters stop charging is they'll say, Hey, we have over temperature

00:41:25prevention.

00:41:26Okay.

00:41:27That's great.

00:41:28But they literally have like a thermistor in there that just stops the communication.

00:41:31And so the car has to blow the contactors open, the chargers under a huge back load, and

00:41:36it's super rough on the equipment when they stop charging.

00:41:39The proper way to do it is to do a D rate based off of temperature.

00:41:43If you have really good temperature monitoring, usually requires having a powered signal intercepting

00:41:48device.

00:41:49So we're starting to see some adapters that can do D rates rather than just straight breaking

00:41:53the whole thing.

00:41:54I just think, you know, because it's a known weak point, use the OEM one because you just

00:41:59don't want a fire.

00:42:00You don't want your whatever to break.

00:42:02Just use the OEM.

00:42:03It's easy.

00:42:04So however many millions of EVs there are in the road, there's going to be issues.

00:42:08So if you just use the factory stuff, then you can just blame the factory.

00:42:11Right.

00:42:12And that's so nice.

00:42:13And it's such good peace of mind to say, Hey, insurance company, I used the recommended

00:42:16thing following the recommended procedure.

00:42:19The likelihood of an issue is very low, but when one does happen, that's the most expensive

00:42:23thing you own.

00:42:24And you don't really want to mess with that, I think.

00:42:27Okay.

00:42:28Well, that was great.

00:42:30Let's go and do something we've never done before on this podcast.

00:42:33No, didn't we do it with the Nikola semi truck?

00:42:36Oh, yeah, we did a little bit of that.

00:42:37Oh, those are pretty fast, actually.

00:42:39They're rad.

00:42:40Yeah.

00:42:41We've never done it with a consumer grade.

00:42:42Let's go hop into...

00:42:45Around Beverly Hills.

00:42:46Oh, nice.

00:42:47Let's go hop into the Lucid Gravity.

00:42:50Gravity is inevitable.

00:42:51I wanted to make that joke.

00:42:52That's a good one, right?

00:42:53No, that's a bad joke.

00:42:54Let's get into the Lucid Gravity Grand Touring and go for a drive and just continue the conversation.

00:43:03All right.

00:43:04So to give you guys an idea of how far my star has fallen career wise, I was the very first

00:43:12non Lucid employee to drive an air and I'm just driving a Gravity now for the first time

00:43:17ever.

00:43:18In the pouring rain.

00:43:19In the pouring rain.

00:43:20On the oval, the six mile oval.

00:43:23Yeah.

00:43:24At Hyundai Proving Grounds.

00:43:26This is Kyle's first time here.

00:43:28Yes.

00:43:29We are sharing with some Hyundai drivers, so let's not freak them out too much.

00:43:33I'm going 85 in the 90s.

00:43:35Okay.

00:43:36Speed up.

00:43:37It's raining.

00:43:38If you can hear the little ticky tack, ticky tack.

00:43:40It's weirdly raining here during our SUV year program.

00:43:44Almost never happened.

00:43:45Yeah, I didn't know it rains in the middle of the desert.

00:43:47Yeah.

00:43:48Oh, flash flood.

00:43:49It's going to be awesome.

00:43:50Just wait till we get swept away.

00:43:51Drifting laps.

00:43:52Here we go.

00:43:53While I'm riding in the back, I actually have driven this.

00:43:56I drove it with a bunch of Lucid folks around their headquarters a couple months ago.

00:44:04I met the new CEO, come up with their PR guys.

00:44:08And then Kyle, had you driven this fire to showing up here?

00:44:13Yes.

00:44:14I've spent quite a bit of time with the gravity.

00:44:15Yep.

00:44:16In the Grand Touring and the Touring?

00:44:17Only the Grand Touring.

00:44:18Only the Grand Touring.

00:44:19And we're in the Grand Touring now.

00:44:21Yes.

00:44:22This is like 123,000.

00:44:23Pretty juicy spec.

00:44:25800...

00:44:2628 horsepower.

00:44:2728 horsepower.

00:44:28Yeah.

00:44:29How big is the battery?

00:44:31It's 118 kilowatt hours if I remember correctly.

00:44:34Oh, so it's bigger than the air.

00:44:35Yeah.

00:44:36It's basically a similar layout, but the chemistry is a bit more energy dense.

00:44:40So they got a few more kilowatt hours.

00:44:42And there are also charges, not only did they go up in energy density, they went way up in charging performance.

00:44:48Which is crazy, because in my mind, for stuff you can buy in the States, Lucid was always the best in terms of charging performance.

00:44:55Or I shouldn't say that, but like speed.

00:44:57You'd see huge kilowatts on the air.

00:45:00And then it would crash.

00:45:01Oh, okay.

00:45:02And so Taycan was always like, not as big power as the air, but would hold it pretty deep.

00:45:07Right.

00:45:08And air was also incredibly thermally sensitive.

00:45:11So if you did a lot of charging, driving, charging, driving, it would suffer a little bit.

00:45:14It seems like this new Panasonic cell is just a little bit more up to the task of handling stuff.

00:45:20I've done three or four zero to 100% charging sessions with gravity.

00:45:24Oh, wow.

00:45:25And it's been so stable, so predictable, which I could never say about the air.

00:45:29What is the charge curve like?

00:45:31Dude, it's really good, actually.

00:45:32So it's 405-ish kilowatt peak.

00:45:35Oh, wow.

00:45:36And it kind of sits wide open for like the first 20 or 30%.

00:45:39At around 50%, it's still doing over 200 kilowatts.

00:45:43I want to say 0% to 80 is around 20 minutes.

00:45:46So.

00:45:47From zero.

00:45:48Really?

00:45:49Which is really good.

00:45:50That's insane.

00:45:51Considering how much of an energy cell this is.

00:45:52That's insane, actually.

00:45:53That's great.

00:45:54Because, well, okay.

00:45:55So for people listening who maybe aren't.

00:45:57All right.

00:45:58What is, what is a gravity, right?

00:45:59Well, no, no, no, no.

00:46:00The gravity is a, it's a lucid SUV.

00:46:02No, I want to say like, like 400 kilowatts in is rad.

00:46:07Yes.

00:46:08Uh, what is 200?

00:46:09Is that, how do you rate that?

00:46:10Is that, how do you rate that?

00:46:11Is that.

00:46:12Yeah.

00:46:13That's the most Rivians can do, for example.

00:46:14And it's a little weak sauce.

00:46:15Yeah.

00:46:16Okay.

00:46:17So that, that doesn't really work.

00:46:18Like Rivians on a road trip, take a minute.

00:46:19But if you have families, like it's still fine.

00:46:21Um, totally, totally okay.

00:46:23It's just, I think this is the level in 2025 where we need to be for charging.

00:46:28And I think more than just the numbers, it's the repeatability, the predictability.

00:46:32Sure.

00:46:33And then also the software to help manage the battery temperature ahead of the charging session,

00:46:37that this really works well at compared to air.

00:46:40For American consumers, who's doing the best charging right now?

00:46:43If I want to buy a vehicle just based on, all I do is road trip.

00:46:46I'm Kyle Connor Jr.

00:46:47Uh, I just need fast charging on the road.

00:46:50Who's the best?

00:46:51Uh, so it's J12 Taycan or e-tron G2.

00:46:54Hell yeah, baby.

00:46:55And this.

00:46:56Okay.

00:46:57They're actually pretty close.

00:46:58Wow.

00:46:59This, this is probably considering the size and space and everything you get.

00:47:01This is probably the best road tripper from an on paper standpoint you can get.

00:47:06Also rides really well.

00:47:07It's quiet.

00:47:08Software needs some work.

00:47:09Right.

00:47:10Yeah.

00:47:11But that's been the lucid story from day one.

00:47:12Yeah.

00:47:13Let's, let's talk a little bit about the package first before we talk about the software.

00:47:16As I was trying to interject for those who are not familiar at all.

00:47:21This is the second vehicle from lucid.

00:47:25This is the three row SUV.

00:47:27A lot of water.

00:47:28I'm going to slow it down.

00:47:29It's all.

00:47:30Hydro place.

00:47:31Hydro place.

00:47:32I saw ESP kicking on there.

00:47:33Yeah.

00:47:34Yeah.

00:47:35It's like, I'm slowing it way down.

00:47:36Massive, massive amount of room.

00:47:38Second row is great.

00:47:39I sat in the third row during a stint around Northern California.

00:47:43Very comfortable environment.

00:47:46I do want to say it looks like a minivan.

00:47:48I get some strong kind of sienna vibes.

00:47:51Yeah.

00:47:52The design is.

00:47:53The outside.

00:47:54How do you guys feel as a, you know, you guys are Rivian homers and they have a pretty

00:47:58good hero.

00:47:59Oh, Rivian is way better.

00:48:00As a.

00:48:01As a what?

00:48:02Looks or package?

00:48:03Looks, looks, looks.

00:48:04Oh, looks.

00:48:05Oh yeah.

00:48:06R1T.

00:48:07Come on.

00:48:08Yeah.

00:48:09No, it's funny because I'm a real big fan of the air.

00:48:10I think it's like, it like basically a Citroen came out with a new DS.

00:48:14I think it would be the air in terms of design.

00:48:17I'm not from the, from the a pillar forward.

00:48:19I'm not crazy about the way it looks.

00:48:21It's, I wouldn't say minivan, but you know what it looks like.

00:48:24Remember the Chrysler Pacifica where it was like in between.

00:48:28Minivan?

00:48:29Not a minivan.

00:48:30Oh, you mean, you mean the original.

00:48:31Oh, okay.

00:48:32Okay.

00:48:33Sorry.

00:48:34Sorry.

00:48:35I meant the Chrysler Pacifica from 2003.

00:48:36I know what you mean.

00:48:37Sorry.

00:48:38It's like, it's like a smashed SUV.

00:48:40Yeah.

00:48:41It kind of looks a little.

00:48:42Yeah.

00:48:43I mean, I think from my perspective, the design is one thing.

00:48:45I think the packaging is, is clearly amazing in this car.

00:48:48Yeah.

00:48:49We would all agree.

00:48:50Huge.

00:48:51The thing is in the EV space that I live in, this has been kind of the holy grail everyone's been waiting for.

00:48:57Okay.

00:48:58And so I've driven it a few times throughout its production cycle.

00:49:02And so now really getting to spend more time with it.

00:49:05I drove one last night, for example, spending time with this car, the driving quality, the range, the charging, that all stacks up.

00:49:13What I'm a little bit disappointed with is the actual bugginess of the software, which this car went on sale.

00:49:21To be fair, I know Luce is a small company and they started small deliveries.

00:49:24This car has been on sale for nine months.

00:49:26Yeah, exactly.

00:49:27Yeah.

00:49:28And to me, no excuse to be this buggy.

00:49:32But that was sort of, I remember, you know, I actually talked a lot of people into buying dream editions, believe it or not.

00:49:38Yeah.

00:49:39Um, and, uh, I would talk to all of them.

00:49:42They're like, I just, the software sucks.

00:49:44And I'm like, ah, like, I hate hearing that.

00:49:47Cause like, you know, I did, I did that big road trip with Peter and it was awesome.

00:49:52And the car was fun.

00:49:54There was like one thing they're like, Hey, this doesn't work.

00:49:57And it was like, I don't know.

00:49:59It's like cruise control or something.

00:50:00All right.

00:50:01I won't mention cruise control.

00:50:02Fine.

00:50:03Whatever it was.

00:50:04Okay.

00:50:05Um, and it seemed fine.

00:50:06And then, and then every loose that I got after that for a while was like just a disaster.

00:50:10Like, but air is pretty solid now.

00:50:12Now it's super solid.

00:50:14Yeah.

00:50:15And I just like, but why is it like, shouldn't it be the same software at a core level?

00:50:22Not that there's no, there would be no sharing.

00:50:24There's, there's almost no sharing between this and air.

00:50:26Maybe some of the logic and graphics and design, but the system's totally different.

00:50:30This is way more powerful, way more headroom.

00:50:33Uh, and, and it actually like has very fast route planning and it has dog mode and it's

00:50:37got great features.

00:50:38It's enough where I would feel comfortable as a content creator to buy it and make videos

00:50:42about what they need to fix.

00:50:43Of course.

00:50:44Sure.

00:50:45But it's a hot, like they really need broken.

00:50:47Tell us what's broken.

00:50:48Well, you had an issue getting even starting.

00:50:50I made a list last night actually.

00:50:52And you know, I only drove this car for two hours and I've got all that.

00:50:56That's a different list.

00:50:57I've got, this was everything that went wrong.

00:50:59Show the camera.

00:51:00Show the camera.

00:51:01Oh yeah.

00:51:02So I will also say this though.

00:51:03Kyle seems to have bad luck with these breaking cars.

00:51:06I'm also nitpicky.

00:51:07Like I really like.

00:51:08You are very, yeah.

00:51:09Like there's some edging around the screen that didn't line up.

00:51:11Give us, give us the big bullet points.

00:51:13What needs to be fixed.

00:51:14So there was a couple of things where like the nav was completely freezing.

00:51:17Where like unless I pulled up nav on the bottom screen, the top screen wouldn't refresh.

00:51:21The headlights still make noise, which drives me insane.

00:51:24What do you mean the headlights?

00:51:25The air has this problem too and it.

00:51:26Oh, because of their high-tech headlights?

00:51:28Yeah, like the ECU drivers or they explained it to me at one point what it was.

00:51:31But for wherever you sit in the driver's seat, I can audibly tell when the headlights are on or off.

00:51:36Oh, that's sweet.

00:51:37Which is not appropriate for a car.

00:51:39You might have a little bit of like pee under the mattress princess syndrome.

00:51:43Yeah, there's something going on that's not right with me.

00:51:45But you know, the average age of a Lucid owner will never hear that noise.

00:51:50Right, right, right, right.

00:51:51But it still shouldn't be there.

00:51:52No, I agree.

00:51:53Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51:54And so that's kind of annoying.

00:51:55Yeah, they're like the power meter.

00:51:57If you go on cruise control, which we can set.

00:51:59Sorry for doing that.

00:52:00No, it's fine.

00:52:01Is that button there.

00:52:03Active cruise control.

00:52:04Why is it dropping to?

00:52:05Click that bottom right button again.

00:52:07Okay.

00:52:08How do you?

00:52:09You're good.

00:52:10But like this is a bit awkward as it's like centered with the road, but doesn't fit with the screen.

00:52:13So there's some things that I want them to move around.

00:52:15Design stuff.

00:52:16Yeah, stuff like that.

00:52:17Real functional things like I genuinely was stuck in the back of a parking lot for 20 minutes trying to get the car to turn on.

00:52:22No, those things happen.

00:52:23What did just not recognize?

00:52:24Wouldn't recognize the key itself or the key card both on the B pillar or down here.

00:52:30And the car was just on like but wouldn't go into gear.

00:52:33You know, I will say my biggest pet peeve with the air was that weird meter which just like showed you what your throttle was doing.

00:52:41Yes.

00:52:42And it was constantly doing this the whole time you drove.

00:52:44Unless you had the cruise control on standby.

00:52:46Yeah.

00:52:47And like they got rid of that.

00:52:48So that's my biggest gripe.

00:52:49Hey, next time.

00:52:50Yeah.

00:52:51Let's try the ride road.

00:52:52Oh, okay.

00:52:53Yeah.

00:52:54Let's see how this is going.

00:52:55Are we in the most comfortable setting?

00:52:56No, we can go here to smooth.

00:52:58Let's get into smooth.

00:52:59Oh, man.

00:53:00And then we got to raise up to standard.

00:53:01So this should be this is optioned with the performance package or whatever they call it.

00:53:05Triple chamber air suspension now.

00:53:07Oh.

00:53:08And so the ride quality of this car I think is unmatched in the segment.

00:53:12Okay.

00:53:13Bouncing around a little bit though could be.

00:53:14Well, we're on a something that hasn't been repaved in 20 years.

00:53:18Yeah, but you know.

00:53:19Yeah.

00:53:20I mean, the back seat might be totally different than the front as well.

00:53:23But at least in my limited experience driving this car from an evaluation standpoint, the car I took yesterday,

00:53:28did not have the performance dynamic handling package.

00:53:32I thought that was great too.

00:53:33So let's talk.

00:53:34Let's ask Johnny for just.

00:53:35Yeah.

00:53:36This is now you've been what?

00:53:37Seven minutes or so.

00:53:38Yeah.

00:53:39First time driving here.

00:53:40What are your initial impression to make sure you get in the right lane to get in the right road?

00:53:42Yeah, don't worry.

00:53:43We'll go a while for the road road.

00:53:44I'm the kid.

00:53:45I can dive bomb.

00:53:46Um, I mean, you know, I rolled down the window.

00:53:49It feels and you said it's been in production nine months.

00:53:52It feels kind of, I don't know, like startup-y.

00:53:56Um, like the window kind of went down in like a non-OEM way in my opinion.

00:54:01Yeah, they ramp speed with their windows.

00:54:03So they start really slow and then pick up.

00:54:05Volvo does that too.

00:54:06Oh, okay.

00:54:07Yeah.

00:54:08Um, it feels fine.

00:54:09It feels, look, I'm just on an oval so it's hard to say anything.

00:54:12The steering feels a little more numb than I remember from airs.

00:54:16Um, and I remember it's, it's also tough cause again, we're on an oval and we're in the rain.

00:54:20Yeah.

00:54:21But I always remember with airs, like getting in them and just being like, God damn, it's a good car.

00:54:25It's amazing.

00:54:26You know that?

00:54:27And I remember the one that blew my socks off was, I had it for a week.

00:54:30It was the, I think it was just called the Touring.

00:54:33It was, it was two motor, 600 horsepower.

00:54:36It was like, you know, almost a hundred grand.

00:54:38And I'm like, I, this car rules.

00:54:40Like this is 600 horsepower, by the way, is like M5 power.

00:54:43Yeah.

00:54:44You know, and it's like totally what you need.

00:54:46Um, squirting through traffic.

00:54:48All right.

00:54:49Here's the, um, this is supposed to mimic various freeways around LA.

00:54:53Yeah.

00:54:54The 110, the 10, the 710.

00:54:55710.

00:54:56Yeah.

00:54:57So you should get some tire slap here.

00:54:59All right.

00:55:00This is also for, uh, Kyle's edification.

00:55:02Yeah.

00:55:03Yeah.

00:55:04You got some pretty wicked.

00:55:05And we are on the biggest wheel and tire.

00:55:07Yeah.

00:55:08As we hydroplane over everything.

00:55:09Yeah.

00:55:10You know, we'll see how it goes.

00:55:12Yeah.

00:55:13This is actually not bad.

00:55:14This is not bad at all.

00:55:15Um, on bad cars, you can literally, you can hear the fuck.

00:55:18Yeah.

00:55:19Okay.

00:55:20Now we're switching freeways.

00:55:21So I think now we're on the 405.

00:55:23That was the 110.

00:55:25Somebody told me this like 15 years ago and no one's ever confirmed it.

00:55:30But the last one is supposed to the 710 and that's all the port traffic.

00:55:35Oh, all semi trucks.

00:55:36So it's just like the worst freeway surface in the universe.

00:55:40Um, and you can, you can see how bad it is.

00:55:43Yeah.

00:55:44This is really good suspension.

00:55:45Yeah.

00:55:46This is very good.

00:55:47You're very isolated.

00:55:48Um, yeah.

00:55:49Take, put them a con in like sport mode and race over this.

00:55:52Oh yeah.

00:55:53Actually Macon's on air suspension too.

00:55:55It is.

00:55:56I don't know what that's terrible.

00:55:57Find something that's bad suspension.

00:55:58Yo.

00:55:59Yeah.

00:56:00There's a few cars out there.

00:56:01Back to the, back to the sort of user experience.

00:56:03I know the software's got some bugs.

00:56:04Uh, a couple of the other guys mentioned that the, um, screens were freezing or blanking

00:56:10out on them.

00:56:11Yeah.

00:56:12But just in general, I spent time in a lucid air over the summer.

00:56:15Uh, and this is after I'd driven a bunch of Chinese cars and I, I'm struck by, you know,

00:56:20Lucid's premium.

00:56:21They got a lot of style.

00:56:22They got the California aesthetic.

00:56:24It's very, the, the palette, the color palette.

00:56:27Yeah.

00:56:28Interior is so cool.

00:56:29It's very, but is it enough?

00:56:31Like, oh, you went to, you spent a lot of time in, in China driving Chinese.

00:56:34Is there enough G whiz, whiz bang, cool features?

00:56:38You mean like quirks and features?

00:56:40Yeah.

00:56:41I mean, yeah, I don't know.

00:56:42Uh, to answer that question, I think that is drawn by the consumer.

00:56:44What I think Lucid needs to work on a little bit more.

00:56:47And I think they're close with the gravity.

00:56:49Like a lot of the bugs that we're experiencing, um, clearly doesn't seem to be a hardware problem

00:56:53with the car.

00:56:54No, it's software.

00:56:55It is just software.

00:56:56So I feel like give it another six months or a year, this should be dialed in and all

00:57:00of our points will be moot.

00:57:01But the problem is it's $120,000 car.

00:57:04You shouldn't have to wait for it to be good.

00:57:06Yeah.

00:57:07And that's why like, you know, again, I was getting accused of working for Riven.

00:57:11God, I wish they would pay me.

00:57:12Anyhow, like it was good from day one.

00:57:15And then every time they do an update, it gets better.

00:57:17But like you never really had buggy software, you know?

00:57:21Yeah.

00:57:22A lot of that is thanks to a seams team.

00:57:23I mean, like I've had my fair share of Riven problems and software bugs and things, but

00:57:27it's been nowhere near the level of what Lucid has gone with as someone who, you know, like

00:57:32my dad had an early air, for example.

00:57:34Okay.

00:57:35We're pretty familiar with that car.

00:57:36I'm actually really impressed with the stability over water with this car.

00:57:39I was at 120, by the way.

00:57:41I've seen Ed's face.

00:57:43I've seen his kid.

00:57:44I'm like, yeah, maybe we should make it back.

00:57:47But, you know, what I think in general the gravity offers is Lucid to really show the world that

00:57:54they are now a big boy automaker.

00:57:56The leniency that we gave them with the air is now kind of used up.

00:58:00Yes.

00:58:01And it was used up through their process.

00:58:02And so I think it's fair that everyone's a bit more, I don't know, nitpicky on this

00:58:08car because it really needs to be good.

00:58:10And little things like the headlight making noise drives me insane.

00:58:13But then you look at the overall package, so zoom out, and you go, wow, this is probably

00:58:17the best driving electric SUV on sale.

00:58:20It's certainly the best road tripping.

00:58:22It's an incredible space offering.

00:58:24And to me, it is still the top choice.

00:58:27All right.

00:58:28So really, you would take this hands down over in R1S?

00:58:34Yeah, absolutely.

00:58:35You park them next to each other, I'm taking this.

00:58:37What about, and I know this is a little bit unfair to Tesla because that car is so old

00:58:41at this point.

00:58:42Yeah.

00:58:43But Model X?

00:58:44Yeah, this all day.

00:58:45No competition.

00:58:46The one thing Model X has that I enjoy, I know I'm a nerd, is Tesla's FSD system.

00:58:51I really do like driving around town and just showing up in places.

00:58:55It's like I have my little space pod.

00:58:57It's cool.

00:58:58If this had that level of autonomy, it would be so perfect.

00:59:01And then last question before, because I know Johnny wants to jump in here.

00:59:04Yeah, yeah.

00:59:05Where, who is doing the mobile app experience the best?

00:59:09Of those three, or is anybody else even in contention, or is it still Tesla?

00:59:12Tesla.

00:59:13You think Rivian?

00:59:14Over Rivian?

00:59:15Oh yeah.

00:59:16Really?

00:59:17I can share a phone key to someone right now.

00:59:18Okay, now that's a problem.

00:59:19Because Rivian supposedly can do that?

00:59:20Never works.

00:59:21No, and you can't really, you can, but you can't like remote activate the car.

00:59:26So like for example, my Model S is sitting in front of my garage at their office.

00:59:29Okay.

00:59:30And we had like someone go to do a delivery, and I'm like, oh, just move the car out.

00:59:33I keep, I have my phone.

00:59:34Right.

00:59:35I just unlocked, remote started.

00:59:36Toe testing.

00:59:37Unlock, remote started, and then, you know, they were able to get in and move the car.

00:59:41There's dog mode, there's, and which Rivian has.

00:59:43But yeah, Tesla still has the best ecosystem by far.

00:59:47Second bet, second is Rivian?

00:59:48Yeah, probably Rivian.

00:59:50And Lucid is, has a pretty good new mobile app as well.

00:59:54They have like, you can view the cameras remotely.

00:59:56Yeah.

00:59:57That's how Rivian can kind of do that.

00:59:58Do you rate Ford or Hyundai at all?

01:00:00Yeah, they're really bad.

01:00:02Like the Hyundai-Kia app is really bad.

01:00:04It's bad.

01:00:05That one I know.

01:00:06The Ford app can't do anything really.

01:00:07Right.

01:00:08Yeah.

01:00:09I mean, Tesla, it's so simple though.

01:00:10The formula's been there for years.

01:00:12Just look at what's there and do that.

01:00:14How hard can it be?

01:00:15What's weird is because I know how automakers build cars and they benchmark and they actually

01:00:20literally say, they make the decision and it's just, it's just on a spreadsheet.

01:00:25Do we want to be best in segment or average in segment with our new product?

01:00:29And again, they literally are people who make the decision.

01:00:32Let's be average.

01:00:33Let's not be best in segment, which is weird.

01:00:35But like, none of this is hard.

01:00:37Like, like pet mode.

01:00:38Yeah.

01:00:39Not a hard thing.

01:00:40Right?

01:00:41Totally.

01:00:42It's weird.

01:00:43You know, I want to get back to one.

01:00:44Wait, did I hear the noise?

01:00:45Was that, was that, what are, I thought I just heard some noise off of the, no, never mind.

01:00:50I think that was rain or something.

01:00:51Um, all right.

01:00:52One thing to say, then I have a question to ask you.

01:00:54But so like, I happen to have a Mercedes on Halloween last year.

01:00:57So Rivian went absolutely bananas for Halloween.

01:01:00Yes.

01:01:01You had, you had Knight Rider, you had the Back to the Future time machine, or you had the

01:01:05creepy thing with bugs coming out.

01:01:06That's right.

01:01:07Of the screen.

01:01:08It made noises.

01:01:09It had new colors.

01:01:10Yeah.

01:01:11The front would turn green.

01:01:12Mercedes, you know what their Halloween thing was?

01:01:14I had a little pumpkin on the screen.

01:01:15A little pumpkin on the screen.

01:01:16A little pumpkin on the screen that was the size of my thumb.

01:01:18Yeah.

01:01:19And it's like.

01:01:20Graphical goodies, they call them.

01:01:22But like, literally it was like, it looked like a, it looked like a, like a, the internet

01:01:26in 1996.

01:01:28Yes.

01:01:29Pumpkin GIF.

01:01:30Well, that's the difference between building a car that has a screen versus a software experience

01:01:35that has wheels.

01:01:36Okay.

01:01:37And if you can make the software experience fantastic, which almost matters to consumers

01:01:41more than they are these days, to some consumers.

01:01:43Or in China, it matters more.

01:01:45In China, they really care about this stuff.

01:01:47But then if you can also make the car not even great, but good and passable, then you

01:01:52have yourself a sales success.

01:01:54And the thing with Rivian is they have really great software and an amazing product.

01:01:59And that's why that car works so well.

01:02:01It's still a premium price.

01:02:02It's still exclusive.

01:02:03You can't, you know, they're expensive, but yeah.

01:02:05Okay.

01:02:06So you're saying this is over the R1S.

01:02:08Now my new king of electric SUVs in terms of like, I just want to have this Escalade

01:02:15IQ.

01:02:16Hell yeah.

01:02:17I love that thing.

01:02:18Would you take, these are parked next to each other.

01:02:19You can't sell them.

01:02:20Just grab the key and go.

01:02:21Yeah.

01:02:22Which one are you taking?

01:02:23I'm taking this.

01:02:24Okay.

01:02:25Yeah.

01:02:26I think on the highway, the Escalade just makes you feel like a boss.

01:02:29And I love that thing.

01:02:30You put the sound system on and you're just, you know, you're the king of the road.

01:02:33The thing that it lacks that this surprisingly has is this insane athleticism.

01:02:39This car is an absolute monster on a back road.

01:02:42Okay.

01:02:43And it's unbelievable.

01:02:44I haven't got to experience that yet.

01:02:45I do value that as one of the reasons I like Rivian so much.

01:02:48Yes.

01:02:49And this will smoke a Rivian.

01:02:50Oh yeah, sure.

01:02:51Sure.

01:02:52But yeah, I've done a little bit.

01:02:54I think the, as the, the, the small Escalade IQ.

01:02:57Yeah.

01:02:58I took it on Angelus Crest.

01:02:59You're right.

01:03:00The non L.

01:03:01Yeah.

01:03:02It's, it's okay.

01:03:03It's fine.

01:03:04But it's not, you never said it's athletic.

01:03:05But, but like looking down on a Ford F two 50 while the car is driving itself.

01:03:11Well, you know, it's just, that's a different kind of a, yeah.

01:03:15So it's the American land.

01:03:16Price point, but price point, not really.

01:03:18Right.

01:03:19They actually are competitors.

01:03:20And I shot in my, when I first drove the Escalade IQ.

01:03:23Um, I went ahead of the media launch and stolen from a dealer because dealers got them before

01:03:28me.

01:03:29That's Cadillac's new thing.

01:03:30That's the way they launched cars.

01:03:31Yeah.

01:03:32And I'm not here to play game with that.

01:03:33So I went to a dealer and then I took it to Lucid's headquarters.

01:03:36Right.

01:03:37And they pulled up a gravity and dude, it looked like you could drive over the gravity with

01:03:41the Escalade.

01:03:42And we were with all the executives.

01:03:43We're driving both of them.

01:03:44Like this is hilarious.

01:03:45Yeah.

01:03:46I love the Escalade.

01:03:47Yeah.

01:03:48You should go with the dealer.

01:03:49Yeah.

01:03:50You ran into it.

01:03:51No, no, no.

01:03:52They're like, they, we know a lot of like our viewers work at dealers and stuff.

01:03:56Okay.

01:03:57And they're like, hey, we just got an Escalade in.

01:03:58I'm like, great.

01:03:59I'll fly there.

01:04:00You've got an amazing viewership.

01:04:01Yes.

01:04:02Because like I, I'll make a video, not me.

01:04:05Okay.

01:04:06Motor Trend will make a video about an electric car.

01:04:08Yeah.

01:04:09And you read the comments.

01:04:10We'll just get murdered.

01:04:11It's, it's just, it's just insanity.

01:04:12I'm just like, what, what planet are you guys on?

01:04:15You'll be like, oh yeah.

01:04:17Like the nerdiest, weirdest thing.

01:04:19And your commenters are like, be nerdier.

01:04:21You didn't, you only talked for 30 minutes about like a charge port.

01:04:25Yeah.

01:04:26Some of them, some of them like shorter videos, but I, it takes me a while to explain anything.

01:04:29So that works well.

01:04:30But I mean, I just, so shout out to your viewers.

01:04:33Totally.

01:04:34Very like, wow.

01:04:35This is a, we have found our niche.

01:04:36They are, we have the coolest viewers.

01:04:38It's really impressive.

01:04:39Well, they're like, I, a lot of them are in market shoppers who just want more information,

01:04:42but a lot of them also are engineers or just people that care about the little details

01:04:47and stuff.

01:04:48And one thing I'm trying to do a little bit more that you guys are really good at is like zooming

01:04:52out bigger picture stuff.

01:04:53I'm just so into like, oh, this little thing is annoying.

01:04:56So I hate the car.

01:04:57Oh yeah.

01:04:58See, I, it's, it's funny.

01:05:00So like, uh, I started my YouTube channel, but my, my partner that is this guy Rylake,

01:05:04and he's got his own channel, blah, blah, blah.

01:05:05Anyhow.

01:05:06But we had those things called, it's called a, off topic for a second, Ed, but it was

01:05:11McKellos.

01:05:12There was this little like Porsche tuner in San Diego.

01:05:14Yeah.

01:05:15They need an identity, but my God, they make good stuff.

01:05:17Right.

01:05:18Yep.

01:05:19And they, they had a 915 transmission.

01:05:20So it's, that was a period correct transmission.

01:05:22Right.

01:05:23And you gotta be, um, intentional.

01:05:25Like that's where third gear is.

01:05:26And I'm going to third gear and it takes muscle cars.

01:05:30Awesome.

01:05:31Right.

01:05:32And I let Riley drive it and he's like, I don't know, man, like the transmission.

01:05:35I'm like, okay, that's the one thing.

01:05:37Like, all right, maybe we're not used to that, but anything else is like, I just can't

01:05:40get past it.

01:05:41I'm like, yeah.

01:05:42What about how rad it is?

01:05:43It's so great.

01:05:44Like, yeah, but like, yeah.

01:05:46Yeah.

01:05:47So there's a few things that are like deal breakers for me.

01:05:49Pet mode is one of them.

01:05:50Like, I just can't understand how you can launch a car.

01:05:52Yeah.

01:05:53Someone who has like dogs and stuff.

01:05:54I got dogs.

01:05:55Yeah.

01:05:56But I, I bring them with me places and I want to leave them in the car.

01:05:58That's like such a needed thing.

01:05:59Okay.

01:06:00Um, other things as phone as a key.

01:06:02Um, I don't want to carry a key fob.

01:06:04I just want my cell phone to work like this.

01:06:06It works great on Fords.

01:06:08It works great on Tesla.

01:06:09Let's get this on record.

01:06:10How about start buttons on EVs?

01:06:12Yeah.

01:06:13I'm, I'm okay with, with that, but I think it's dumb.

01:06:15Okay.

01:06:16I don't.

01:06:17So I think Porsche does it best actually, which is you can choose to use the start button

01:06:20or not, but why have it?

01:06:22Right.

01:06:23Why have it?

01:06:24What about this new model Y Juniper, the predictive shifting.

01:06:27Do you like that?

01:06:28Yeah.

01:06:29In my car, I think it works like 99% of the time.

01:06:32It works most of the time.

01:06:33But the problem is you always have to look because the one time it doesn't work.

01:06:36Right.

01:06:37You're now into a someone's mailbox.

01:06:38Right.

01:06:39Um, okay.

01:06:40Okay.

01:06:41But even more than that is FSD.

01:06:42Go ahead.

01:06:43Uh, the new, like the last six months, I, I hated people going on about FSD forever.

01:06:47Now I'm one of those people, dude, I do not drive anymore.

01:06:50Like I love to drive for fun.

01:06:52Like give me a back road.

01:06:53Yeah.

01:06:54You've been with me on roads.

01:06:55Yeah.

01:06:56That's my tear it up.

01:06:57Love it.

01:06:58Uh, to go to like Starbucks in the morning.

01:07:00I just sit in my Tesla.

01:07:02Now I go in the driveway and then I'm like, Oh, I'm there.

01:07:05And so you're literally hitting Starbucks on the now.

01:07:07Yeah.

01:07:08And it drives.

01:07:09It pulls itself out of the driveway.

01:07:10It gets me to Starbucks.

01:07:11I'm, uh, I'm rapidly on board with that too.

01:07:14It's so good.

01:07:15It's so good.

01:07:16It's so good.

01:07:17On our model Y.

01:07:18And the FSD is, I know our colleague Alex Lien's had some several issues with it.

01:07:21Alex did.

01:07:22Yes.

01:07:23But so far it's been very, very impressive.

01:07:25Especially when you consider it is camera only.

01:07:27Yeah.

01:07:28And the things it can do in Los Angeles.

01:07:30And the camera only thing is proving out to actually kind of be the right way.

01:07:34Did you see this big D car Chinese, uh, driver assistance test?

01:07:37Yes.

01:07:38The Teslas did better than anyone else.

01:07:39Yes.

01:07:40And they all, all the guys who had LIDAR crashed into the trucks.

01:07:42So similar with on in the Tesla, cause I want to stay with this.

01:07:46And this also goes back to our early question about what's new and what's new in 2025.

01:07:51Where is out of spec Kyle on AI?

01:07:55Are you using Grok in the car?

01:07:57Do you use AI for your content creation?

01:07:59Are you on board?

01:08:00Are you also kind of a naysayer?

01:08:02Yeah.

01:08:03Uh, not a naysayer at all.

01:08:04I think I'm not, um, using AI to its full capabilities for what I do.

01:08:09I think there is, um, in the video space.

01:08:11So from a business perspective, I think there's going to be a real desire for genuine natural content.

01:08:17And what I mean by that is not AI editing crazy.

01:08:20And we already see that in a sense where heavily produced cinematic videos do way worse than a dude with an iPhone.

01:08:27Yeah.

01:08:28I mean, some of my biggest things that I've done is literally just like, you know, shooting vertical with an iPhone.

01:08:34I forgot to even set the frame rate correctly.

01:08:36Yep.

01:08:37And people want that like, oh, the authenticity.

01:08:40Yeah.

01:08:41So there's an inverse relationship between effort and views.

01:08:44Yeah.

01:08:45And so that's why my stuff is always just iPhone because it works.

01:08:48And it's just a dude with a phone, which is me.

01:08:50I'm not like a big top gear video producer.

01:08:52It's just Kyle's interested in a weird car.

01:08:54Let's film that.

01:08:55And I've been trying to, you know, get more people to understand.

01:08:58You don't need to go crazy with AI.

01:09:00I think it's going to be even more desirable to see.

01:09:03Right.

01:09:04Just a dude experiencing cars in our case or whatever it might be that they're reviewing.

01:09:09Yeah.

01:09:10I agree.

01:09:11But what I do use AI for is when I am like, here's a car, you have 10 minutes to go film

01:09:17it.

01:09:18Get the gist of stuff.

01:09:19You always have to check the specs, but just to get an idea of like where it stands up.

01:09:23And I use that.

01:09:24Oh, interesting.

01:09:25And what are you using?

01:09:26Are you using Perplexity or Gemini?

01:09:27So Perplexity is amazing.

01:09:28I use ChatGBT and Grok quite a bit.

01:09:31Grok I use in the car because it's built into my Tesla now.

01:09:34And I can have like full on conversations with it.

01:09:37As an example, I bought an R53 Mini Cooper S for a fun project for my channel.

01:09:41And I'm a huge mini enthusiast.

01:09:43Love it.

01:09:44It blew up 10 minutes after buying it for my best friend.

01:09:46And I was like, Grok, what should I do?

01:09:48Should I sell the car or scrap the car?

01:09:50Should I kill your best friend?

01:09:52Yeah.

01:09:53Should I put a new engine in it?

01:09:54What type of engine?

01:09:55Should I build a race motor?

01:09:56And I was just going to Starbucks one day and it walked me through the options.

01:09:59It said, here's the aftermarket parts you should consider.

01:10:01Here's the rough costs that you can expect to pay.

01:10:03And I'm just sitting in the car anyway.

01:10:05And I hate voice assistants with a passion.

01:10:08They don't work.

01:10:09Grok worked amazing driving there.

01:10:12The thing is, it has no vehicle function.

01:10:14What I think would be cool is to be like, Grok, what kind of car is that there?

01:10:17Or what is this building?

01:10:19Or once it starts tying in with the vehicle cameras.

01:10:21All that's supposed to be coming.

01:10:22Yeah.

01:10:23So you went into problems.

01:10:25This is even my problem.

01:10:26Whatever I do with AI, I do it wrong.

01:10:29And I always get, it's horrible and frustrating and I hate it.

01:10:32Yeah.

01:10:33But do you get bad information?

01:10:34Because now, constantly when I do a search on Google, you get the AI answer.

01:10:40Yeah.

01:10:41It's wrong.

01:10:42And I know I have a good brain for torque specs.

01:10:44Yes.

01:10:45And like, I got nailed actually on Spikes Car Radio, another podcast I do.

01:10:49Yeah.

01:10:50Me too.

01:10:52For the Thor's hammer mode and the GMC Sierra EV 84.

01:10:57Oh, sure.

01:10:58Right before we went on, I did a quick AI search.

01:11:00Yeah.

01:11:01And it said 885 pound feet of torque and it's 775.

01:11:04Oh, yeah.

01:11:05And I was like, and I didn't save it, but I remember it said 885.

01:11:09And I'm like, that makes sense because the Hummer's a thousand.

01:11:11Right.

01:11:12You know.

01:11:13Seems in the ballpark.

01:11:14Yeah.

01:11:15But like, do you worry about getting it wrong?

01:11:17Yeah.

01:11:18I don't really quote hardcore power figures and if I do, I grab them from manufacturer

01:11:22specs or from our desk numbers.

01:11:23Okay.

01:11:24I think it's more just to get the general idea of a car right now.

01:11:28Okay.

01:11:29Yeah.

01:11:30AI is, it's like, it could be so good it can get you into sticky situations.

01:11:33I think for anyone out there who's wanting to make content, keep it genuine.

01:11:37Yeah.

01:11:38That's the future of like, what people are going to want to consume in the future.

01:11:42Yep.

01:11:43Yep.

01:11:44Well said.

01:11:45Oh, we got another six miles.

01:11:48Well, yeah.

01:11:49Want to see top speed in the wet?

01:11:51Top speed sideways.

01:11:53Just kidding.

01:11:54Well, I can review the gravity a little bit more.

01:11:57Yeah.

01:11:58Is your massage still going?

01:11:59No.

01:12:00Why do massages turn off?

01:12:02I hate that so much.

01:12:04Like 20 minutes.

01:12:05This is the most entitled of like wine and cheese.

01:12:11Every complaint the hot rod guys ever had about Motor Trend.

01:12:14Why do massages turn off?

01:12:16Ever?

01:12:17Ah, thank you.

01:12:18Yes, you're welcome.

01:12:19Yeah.

01:12:20I was just in a car that doesn't shut off.

01:12:22And what was it?

01:12:23Because it was a reason to buy that car.

01:12:25BMW?

01:12:26No.

01:12:27God, I can't remember what I was driving.

01:12:29But it doesn't shut off.

01:12:30Oh, it's my Super Duty.

01:12:32A Ford Super Duty.

01:12:33Oh.

01:12:34This is my own car.

01:12:35Okay.

01:12:36And it stays on the whole time.

01:12:37This feature.

01:12:38That's still the weird air bladder massages?

01:12:40Yeah, but it feels like this.

01:12:41Okay.

01:12:42It's like got the little rollers in there.

01:12:43Oh, okay.

01:12:44I got a Limited, a nice one.

01:12:45Oh.

01:12:46And yeah.

01:12:47Wait, wait, wait.

01:12:48F250?

01:12:49350.

01:12:50Dually?

01:12:51No, I really wanted a 450.

01:12:52A dually?

01:12:53Why didn't you get one?

01:12:54Because it would put me over CDL with my trailer.

01:12:55Oh, yeah.

01:12:56So you actually have to get a less capable truck.

01:12:58Right.

01:12:59To be safer.

01:13:00Which makes no sense.

01:13:01I've seen you the way what you do for fun.

01:13:02You don't want CDL.

01:13:03No.

01:13:04No, you do not.

01:13:05So I don't want CDL.

01:13:06So that's commercial vehicle license.

01:13:07And what that means is like, if you're one mile and over and you get pulled over, you

01:13:12go to prison or they cut your hands off or something.

01:13:14Yeah, like insurance goes up like 500%.

01:13:16Yeah.

01:13:17If you get caught, like, you know, legal limit is like 0.08.

01:13:20If you get caught like 0.001, you'd just die.

01:13:23So I got a truck and trailer combo.

01:13:25Okay.

01:13:26That's one pound under CDL.

01:13:27Okay.

01:13:28What's, what is the CDL limit?

01:13:29It's 26,001 pounds.

01:13:31Okay.

01:13:32Gross combined vehicle weight rating, which means the maximum payload of both.

01:13:36Sure.

01:13:37And I'm 26,000.

01:13:38Okay.

01:13:39And so, so an F350 single wheel.

01:13:42It's 12.

01:13:43No, no, no.

01:13:44What's the truck weight?

01:13:45It's like, it's like, yeah, the truck itself weighs 8,000, but you'd go off of the GBWR.

01:13:49Yeah.

01:13:50So it's 12,000 on the truck and 14 on the trailer.

01:13:52Okay.

01:13:53It's crazy how a Dually adds a thousand pounds.

01:13:56Oh yeah.

01:13:57Dually could add more.

01:13:58I was like, yeah, it's insane.

01:13:59But the 450s look great, but I'm, I know it's an EV podcast, but I'm a diesel truck guy

01:14:04too.

01:14:05Right.

01:14:06Cause you gotta tow those.

01:14:07You gotta tow those damn electric cars.

01:14:09When you run them down to zero for fun.

01:14:12I got a mobile DC fast charger for that.

01:14:14Shout out charge rigs.

01:14:15They sent me this like, you know, a couple hundred kilowatt hour battery with two DC ports

01:14:19on it.

01:14:20So now I pull up, you know, I can tow it behind my R1S.

01:14:22Yeah.

01:14:23I can run a car out of charge and charge it off the side of the rip.

01:14:25I do love a good heavy duty pickup.

01:14:27I got light duty pickups.

01:14:28Like, but a heavy duty pickup there, there is kind of like we're talking about with the

01:14:33Escalade where you're just in your own world.

01:14:35Absolutely.

01:14:36It's your own universe.

01:14:37You see a trailer on the side of the road.

01:14:39I can tow that.

01:14:40No problem.

01:14:41I love it.

01:14:42I love big diesel V eights.

01:14:43Anyway.

01:14:44I just think they're great.

01:14:45Dying breed.

01:14:46Totally.

01:14:47All right.

01:14:48So let's finish up with, because we are at SV the year, Kyle's about to drive a bunch

01:14:53of vehicles.

01:14:54Johnny, you drive a bunch of vehicles.

01:14:56You're getting a new one in your driveway every other day.

01:14:58Every day.

01:14:59What, what are you most interested that's coming soon or you're about to drive?

01:15:04Something we haven't talked about yet.

01:15:06Is there any particular vehicle?

01:15:07EVs.

01:15:08Yeah, whatever.

01:15:09I was going to say Ford Expedition.

01:15:10I was going to say Ford GTD.

01:15:12Yeah.

01:15:13Well, there we go.

01:15:14Okay.

01:15:15We'd love to have a go on that.

01:15:16I also, also the big Corvettes.

01:15:18I'm very, I haven't got a ZR one or the zero, the horribly named fact machine zero one X.

01:15:24Right.

01:15:25There you go.

01:15:26All right.

01:15:27John is all performance.

01:15:28Yeah.

01:15:29So for SUV of the year, I think it's hilarious how a leaf is included in SUV of the year,

01:15:32but they Nissan classifies it as an SUV against the criteria.

01:15:36I actually think it's going to do really well because it's an incredible value.

01:15:39It's efficient.

01:15:40It's a huge upgrade for the leaf.

01:15:42And I'm sort of a leaf apologist.

01:15:44I think it's a great car.

01:15:45I have three Leafs.

01:15:46Look, the Aria, I think the Aria is a great car.

01:15:49The Aria just today.

01:15:50Did you see the news?

01:15:51I know.

01:15:52Did you hear about this?

01:15:53The Aria is not a great car.

01:15:54Oh, I like it a lot.

01:15:55Oh.

01:15:56What's wrong with the Aria?

01:15:57Wait, you like the Leaf and you don't like the Aria?

01:15:59Yeah, the Aria driving wise is actually surprisingly good.

01:16:02Yeah.

01:16:03But you get it's about the ecosystem of the car and it has a zero.

01:16:06No, no, no, no.

01:16:07I'm just saying I was shocked.

01:16:09I was like, I really like this.

01:16:10Yeah.

01:16:11I mean, I agree.

01:16:12I drove one.

01:16:13I'm like, wow, the all wheel drive has got like torque vectoring on the rear axle.

01:16:14It's pretty good.

01:16:15So Kyle's in the Leaf.

01:16:16Anything else?

01:16:17Yeah.

01:16:18Leaf.

01:16:19Q6 e-tron.

01:16:20My colleagues have done that.

01:16:21So I think that'll be interesting.

01:16:22I've driven that.

01:16:24I forgot I drove the A6 e-tron.

01:16:26Oh, this is a great story.

01:16:27Tell this story.

01:16:28This is wonderful.

01:16:29I went on the first drive of the A6 e-tron and I've shot a whole video, a nerd video.

01:16:32And then like three months goes by and I'm like, I saw someone else post an A6 video.

01:16:37I'm like, oh, I forgot.

01:16:38I drove that car and I forgot to post the video.

01:16:40It just had completely escaped my mind.

01:16:42Yeah.

01:16:43So sorry, Audi.

01:16:44I've had that happen.

01:16:45I mean, I almost, years ago, I almost rode like a mea culpa, but I call them dead soldiers.

01:16:49Like where I was going to ride something and just kind of never happened.

01:16:51Yeah.

01:16:52And nobody cared.

01:16:53Yeah.

01:16:54Nice.

01:16:55The OEM didn't care.

01:16:56Yeah.

01:16:57You know, I did that with a Macan when COVID hit.

01:16:59Oh yeah.

01:17:00Our photographer, Renz's first photo shoot with me driving around in the refreshed Macan

01:17:05and then I never.

01:17:06You know what I think is a secret.

01:17:07Let's actually drive up over here.

01:17:08You know what I think is kind of a secret competitor here that no one really expects

01:17:12is the Cadillac Vistic.

01:17:14Just spent a lot of time with the Vistic.

01:17:17It's real good.

01:17:18It's stable.

01:17:19It's real good.

01:17:20Like from a software perspective, it looks good.

01:17:22Yeah.

01:17:23It drives really well.

01:17:24It just is a battery and charging curve away from really being this.

01:17:29So what's funny is, I'm going to just do the VDA for a second.

01:17:32Hell yeah.

01:17:33Traction control off.

01:17:34Hold on.

01:17:35Ed's in the back.

01:17:36It's all right.

01:17:37Ed, buckle up.

01:17:38Hold on.

01:17:39I just want to do shout out to General Motors.

01:17:42And I'm saying this from the perspective of driving around LA constantly.

01:17:46The amount of Blazer EVs, Equinox EVs.

01:17:50Everything is off by the way.

01:17:52Okay.

01:17:53Just in case you're wondering.

01:17:54Blazer blah blah.

01:17:55Whatever.

01:17:56The Prologue is the electric one.

01:17:58The Acuras.

01:17:59The Cadillacs.

01:18:00Like GMEVs have silently like sort of taken over Southern California.

01:18:04Like there's still a lot of Teslas, of course.

01:18:06But like.

01:18:07The thing is they're like so good.

01:18:08They're not particularly great, but they're very good.

01:18:11Yeah.

01:18:12They're very, very good.

01:18:13Yeah.

01:18:14And they're.

01:18:15Where's the figure eight?

01:18:16You just passed it.

01:18:17They're starting to be priced according to you too.

01:18:19Yeah.

01:18:20The least deals are pretty good on them.

01:18:21Oh, that's the figure.

01:18:22Yep.

01:18:23I will just say.

01:18:24The vehicle I'm interested in.

01:18:26Only because I'm a consumer car nerd.

01:18:29Is the RAV4.

01:18:31Because.

01:18:32I'm hearing not good things.

01:18:33It is quite.

01:18:35It looks fast.

01:18:36We're.

01:18:37I can't.

01:18:38This is not the figure.

01:18:39You were to the right.

01:18:40Oh.

01:18:41All right.

01:18:42It's like a waistline of cones out here.

01:18:43Yeah.

01:18:44It's hard.

01:18:45Oh, now I kind of see where we are.

01:18:46Yeah.

01:18:47Looking for the opposite cone.

01:18:48The yellow cone.

01:18:49There you go.

01:18:50Yeah.

01:18:51Go to that cone.

01:18:52Okay.

01:18:53Cool.

01:18:54That's your gate.

01:18:55Oh, brakes.

01:18:56Yep.

01:18:57Quick steering ratio.

01:18:58Yeah.

01:18:59It's good.

01:19:00Yeah.

01:19:01Okay.

01:19:02I hit it.

01:19:03Oh, yeah.

01:19:04In the wet.

01:19:05Yeah.

01:19:06That was ABS.

01:19:07That was full pedal to the floor.

01:19:08Hell yeah.

01:19:09Yeah.

01:19:10Just nail it.

01:19:11She should slide.

01:19:12There we go.

01:19:13Oh, yeah.

01:19:14Yeah.

01:19:15Just nail it.

01:19:16Yeah, buddy.

01:19:17Nope.

01:19:18Nope.

01:19:19Nope.

01:19:20Nope.

01:19:21That's where you're improving.

01:19:22Now throttle throttle.

01:19:23We got it.

01:19:24Nope.

01:19:25Didn't do it.

01:19:26360s in gravity.

01:19:27That's how we end the podcast.

01:19:28So.

01:19:29Yeah.

01:19:30A little wet for that.

01:19:31That's the way to do it brother.

01:19:32Thank our guest.

01:19:33Yeah.

01:19:34Kyle Connor for coming on.

01:19:35Test the cars.

01:19:36Yeah.

01:19:37This has been an amazing.

01:19:38I haven't looped a car in many years.

01:19:39It's awesome.

01:19:40I love that you can do it though.

01:19:41They let you turn everything off.

01:19:42Yeah.

01:19:43No, that's a great point.

01:19:44Yeah.

01:19:45All right.

01:19:46Take us home.

01:19:47Thanks for coming out.

01:19:48Both to help guest judge on this video program and also help us kickstart our new season.

01:19:54New season.

01:19:55Rebirth under new management.

01:19:56This has been the inevitable.

01:19:57I don't have my bell button.

01:19:59Ding.

01:20:00Thanks everybody.

01:20:01Catch you on the next one.

01:20:02See ya.

We’re Back! State of the EV Industry + Deep Dive with Kyle Conner | The InEVitable

Category

Transcript

Be the first to comment

Recommended