- 3 years ago
Join Former Director of ISRO Surendra Pal who shares his views on ISRO's Gaganyaan Project. What keeps the scientists and the engineers going and also the concept of Masala Dosa and Filter Coffee at ISRO. Watch The WHYs and The HOWs with Pankaj Mishra.
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#gaganyaan #isrogaganyaan #isro #gaganyaanlive #gaganyaanlaunch #englishnewslive
~HT.178~ED.102~GR.124~
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NewsTranscript
00:00 Omnisate the whole country and ISRO for the successful.
00:03 You see in ISRO, persons work because they want to work.
00:09 And when you are a scientist, you don't get the overtime.
00:13 Certain category of employees are entitled to overtime, but the overtime will be exhausted very fast.
00:19 Hello and welcome.
00:20 You're watching One India News and a red letter day indeed for ISRO, for India and for the world also as
00:28 Gaganyaan, the India's space program.
00:32 One step has been completed.
00:34 One box has been checked.
00:36 What is it exactly?
00:37 Why ISRO celebrates, why India is celebrating on this festive occasion of Saptami?
00:42 We are joined by former director of ISRO, Surinder Palji.
00:48 Surinder sir, obviously, thank you so much for speaking to us.
00:51 And what a day, what a day, red letter day.
00:54 Could you please share with us the significance of this particular step of crew safety as far as the Gaganyaan's bigger picture is concerned?
01:03 Yeah, first of all, I mean, you know, I must congratulate the whole country and ISRO for the successful.
01:13 Now, let us see.
01:14 They see any manned mission is a complex mission.
01:19 It's a system of systems where a lot of systems are there which are parallelly being developed and safety becomes the major part in it.
01:27 So we look for six sigma in every case, you know, majority of the cases and crew module where crew stays, you know, because it's a human life.
01:37 So everything goes in six.
01:38 Six sigma is like a three point seven mistakes in one million.
01:43 That's sort of a statistically approximately like that.
01:47 It comes from that.
01:48 So now suppose it's about something goes wrong.
01:54 You're I mean, persons are in the crew, astronauts or we call it govern not for anything you can call it.
02:02 Gaganyaan, and the module is down the thing.
02:07 So there can be two types of things can be there.
02:10 One is the launcher and the launch pad itself fails.
02:12 You know, if you must have read it, it has happened with Russians.
02:16 It has happened with Americans.
02:17 Many astronauts in the past have died of that.
02:21 Then for that, the pod pad aborts abortment.
02:26 That test was done somewhere in 2018.
02:29 Next is suppose it's launched, it goes to certain height.
02:34 They like it.
02:35 Now it is going to one point two five around 17 kilometers high.
02:39 So accelerations are very high from one that velocity.
02:43 If you take it, OK, when it goes to that, if you come down and there, the acceleration is of the order of
02:49 mean velocity is of the order of 150 meters per second.
02:52 OK, and if you take the accelerations are very high at that point.
02:57 So to see that place, what happens?
02:59 Those things also you have to go there.
03:01 You have to release the things and check it.
03:03 So those parameters will be up there.
03:05 Now that place it goes, something has gone.
03:09 So what is done is it has created a fault inside it and there is a crew escape module.
03:15 So there is a crew module about the cover, you know, because there are four motors are there.
03:23 There's eight to 16 motors are there on that one.
03:26 Also on that one.
03:28 So this crew escape module removed from the launcher.
03:32 Crew module, it's like pull up.
03:35 OK, separates it.
03:37 And then it goes to a certain height because a rocket is like a live bomb.
03:43 You don't regulate it.
03:45 If things are not regulated, if it's not regulated, then you get seen in the pictures from the US and other places how the
03:57 blast takes place.
03:58 We have seen the shuttle, etc.
04:00 So take care of that one.
04:02 It takes it quite far away.
04:04 So the debris does not fall on the crew.
04:07 It takes it to the crew escape module.
04:09 It takes it away.
04:10 But when it pulls away, it gives higher acceleration.
04:13 The accelerations are very high.
04:14 The velocities are very, very high.
04:16 And then from there it gives again details.
04:19 So the rocket falls somewhere around six kilometers distance from the launch pad.
04:26 This falls around 10 kilometers away.
04:28 So it's quite far away from the rocket.
04:30 From the impact.
04:31 Yes.
04:31 And the crew escape module, which has got a lot of motors, that falls quite far away.
04:36 I mean, 16 kilometers or 17 kilometers.
04:38 Right.
04:39 Right.
04:40 Here they have the crew escape module, which is a safety module.
04:44 And the crew module had all the features.
04:47 It was under the space, but I mean, like, you know, cover was there.
04:52 The fins were, four fins were there.
04:54 All motors were there.
04:56 There are almost 10 kilometers were there.
04:59 And gyros were there.
05:01 Total control system was there.
05:04 So now all these things have been tested just to see the safety.
05:10 So this test tells us our safety measures, what sort of planning to be successful.
05:15 Right.
05:16 Absolutely.
05:17 Absolutely, Srinath sir, you know, what a momentous day it is and the way you have
05:22 explained it to our viewers also that why this today's test was very important.
05:28 Secondly, you know, we saw in the morning at around eight o'clock when the first
05:32 effort was made, there was some glitch which was immediately rectified.
05:37 And the confidence of your colleagues and, you know, the ISRO chief, the body
05:44 language, absolutely confident, came back once again in two hours and did it.
05:48 So I just wanted to know from you what happens inside the control room when these
05:54 liftoffs, these big ticket launches happen, what is the atmosphere there, sir?
05:59 I'll tell you.
06:00 First case, there were two holes, we call it holes.
06:04 One was because of the weather.
06:06 You see, this is a southwest monsoon will be coming, you know.
06:10 And because of that monsoon, there was a weather inclement weather was there, it was
06:18 raining.
06:18 Weather clearance was so open because it has to splash in the sea.
06:23 So Navy also has the weather clearance.
06:24 First hole was because of that.
06:27 Second hole was after the ignition started, ignition was stopped because it's a liquid
06:33 motor. So there are two computers.
06:35 One is on-board computer, another is the ground computer.
06:39 And this launch is authorized by the ground computer.
06:42 OK, OK.
06:44 The small glitch was found and there was a measurement glitch, parameter glitch.
06:50 So immediately the team went into action and found out it's a measurement glitch.
06:55 So again, the automatic launch sequence was a B-hole and it was activated and then it
07:03 was launched perfectly.
07:04 Now there are two things are there.
07:06 One is the confidence of the team, confidence in the sense they know everything what
07:11 could have gone wrong. Because in space technology, we always go for failure mode
07:16 analysis. What could have occurred?
07:19 Right. Even Chandrayaan works.
07:21 Yeah, we don't go by 100% success based.
07:24 I mean, if failures are taken care, success will come.
07:27 The aim is life.
07:29 It's a life.
07:30 So unknowingly, we that our negative thing, the glitch became positive for us.
07:39 That our all logics are working.
07:42 Yes.
07:43 Success are working. There is a synchronization and that shows the confidence of the team.
07:47 Now you ask the question, under such circumstances, what happens in the control room or
07:53 in the, if suppose there is a satellite, something is going on, immediately the concerned
07:59 person sit together.
08:00 OK.
08:01 And they'll look into it.
08:03 There's not a single person and there will be a team and immediately the person who will be
08:08 coordinator, will be the chairman of the committee, they'll look into it.
08:10 In this particular case, it's a small thing.
08:13 So the computer person must have immediately told that this is a glitch.
08:16 So they are within one hour, they lost it.
08:19 One more thing about ISRO is, I joined ISRO in 1970.
08:26 From there onwards I can see, the confidence of the management in the engineers is very
08:35 high. There is freedom of work.
08:37 See, Swamnath, etc.
08:39 They are the third, fourth generation.
08:44 I think the days of Sathyaji when we are here.
08:46 No, no.
08:47 I mean, see, they have come through the drills.
08:49 They know how they have performed.
08:52 So how now they expect others to perform.
08:55 And they have the same confidence.
08:57 They have no discourages and the failures are never considered as a bad thing.
09:03 It's that they are considered really good.
09:06 Couple of things which I want to tell you, if you got time.
09:09 Yes, please.
09:11 You see, we went to the height of 11.1 km.
09:15 Right.
09:17 And the rocket was a rocket was a test.
09:21 This is a modified version of Vikas engine.
09:25 OK, this will be used for test flight.
09:28 You know, you can't use the whole GSLV for test.
09:31 So this was also tested.
09:33 OK, OK, OK.
09:35 Absolutely.
09:36 Second thing is the crew module was also tested.
09:39 All the things except it was not pressurized.
09:40 But there was a grip.
09:43 You know, its orientation was changed.
09:45 So there was a whole inertial system was there inside.
09:48 And after the crew module, there is a cover etc.
09:51 is there. Then the crew escape, you know, escape module, you know, crew
09:55 escape module.
09:57 The total module, that also consists of two things.
10:00 You know, it has got almost eight motors.
10:02 And then when it is a test, the crew module gets oriented.
10:09 The total launch is almost 12 degrees.
10:11 And then it gets oriented.
10:14 So it has to come towards the ground.
10:16 So when it gets oriented at that time, it is almost 1.25 Mach.
10:20 That is almost 15,000 km/hr of speed.
10:24 And that if you get 17 km height, when you come down,
10:28 the G levels are very high.
10:30 Right.
10:31 You have to reduce it.
10:33 So what is done is there will be
10:36 what we call a drogue parachute.
10:39 You can say brake parachute.
10:41 OK.
10:42 They are small, they are not large.
10:44 OK. OK.
10:46 But if you put a large one at that velocity, they may get torn.
10:49 Oh, OK. OK.
10:52 So it has to be small.
10:54 So there are motors are there to actuate them.
10:58 So a lot of actuators are there.
11:00 See, it's not a simple thing.
11:01 The actuators are there.
11:03 Then when it comes to the velocity gets reduced,
11:05 then those drogue modules are released.
11:11 Then the pilot parachutes are there.
11:14 OK.
11:16 The main parachute should not get entangled.
11:18 So pilot parachutes are there.
11:19 You must have seen small parachutes were there.
11:22 And after that,
11:24 150 km, almost 150 m/s
11:27 is the velocity.
11:29 So it comes down to 8 m/s, that sort of thing.
11:32 There with these parachutes.
11:33 So there are stages for it.
11:35 So those things also got tested.
11:37 And these things were tested in TBRL Chandigarh.
11:39 On the range, there were hills, you know, almost 1.5 km.
11:43 With high speed.
11:45 All those things have been tested.
11:46 How the parachutes work.
11:47 So everything was tested on the ground.
11:49 And now, it's also tested.
11:51 This is a D1, there will be D2.
11:53 Parallel, a lot of activities are going on.
11:55 D3 will be there.
11:56 D4 may contain almost the exact replica of two modules.
12:02 OK.
12:03 And it may go one orbit or so.
12:05 It has got some sort of a robot or a mannequin.
12:11 We can say with...
12:12 We will go there.
12:13 Yes.
12:14 It's a female.
12:15 Female.
12:16 We have Vyom.
12:18 Yes, Vyom Mitra.
12:20 Something like that.
12:21 That's wrong.
12:22 Why?
12:23 I mean, you know, we want to give importance to Shakti, you know, ladies.
12:27 So that's why this thing has done.
12:30 And we are in there.
12:32 A lot of importance is being given in the country.
12:35 And our ladies have done wonderfully.
12:37 We are lady engineers.
12:38 We saw it.
12:39 I was the director of communications.
12:41 I had almost 60% of the ladies working there.
12:45 And one of them is the director now, whom I recruited.
12:48 And these all persons were...
12:50 Aditya, Alvin, etc.
12:51 They were all recruited by me.
12:53 And...
12:53 Oh, wow.
12:54 ...promoted also.
12:56 So, you see, wonderful work has been done.
13:00 Hereafter, we must have seen a lot of lady engineers.
13:02 So, those things have been done.
13:04 So, that D4 will contain almost the same replica.
13:08 Okay.
13:09 And all the parameters will be measured.
13:10 Now, here one thing comes, you know, G.
13:13 G is the exercise factor.
13:15 Okay.
13:16 So, what G the crew will face.
13:21 So, there is a crew module.
13:23 Now, crew module is the cramped one.
13:26 Crew module has got service module.
13:28 It has got service module supported.
13:30 And it has to have oxygen, carbon dioxide.
13:35 So, it should be removed, recycled, water.
13:38 Three to four days, what for they stay.
13:40 All these things have to be there.
13:42 So, it's not so easy.
13:44 And it's a very complicated.
13:45 I call it a complex.
13:47 We have to look after.
13:49 We have to, you know, complex interplay of so many system of systems.
13:55 Absolutely, sir.
13:56 Absolutely.
13:57 We saw this, you know, everything coming together in case of Chandrayaan and then Aditya L1
14:04 also.
14:05 And now, Gaganyaan project is also coming.
14:07 Sharing experience, sir.
14:08 Yes.
14:09 About Chandrayaan.
14:10 Today's achievement is a great achievement.
14:14 And I think the country should rejoice.
14:16 We have a Durga Saptami.
14:18 Yes, yes.
14:19 We are in the auspicious time going on.
14:23 Absolutely.
14:24 So, with this, one final question before I let you go.
14:27 You know, many of our viewers in the comments box also ask and there is a general perception.
14:34 You know, there was talk about one thing is women power that you mentioned.
14:38 We saw it in almost all the projects that ISRO has done recently.
14:43 Also this concept of having dosa and filter coffee.
14:47 Is this correct that the ISRO scientists.
14:50 I mean, I have gone through that stage.
14:53 You see, in ISRO, persons work because they want to work.
15:00 OK.
15:01 Salaries, see whether it's ISRO scientists or a professor in IIT or a professor in some
15:06 engineering college, they get almost the same salary.
15:10 And when you are a scientist, you don't get the overtime.
15:15 Certain category of employees are entitled for overtime, but the overtime will be exhausted
15:19 very fast.
15:20 Because the time available to do the things is very small.
15:24 So, those persons also after the overtime is over, they will work.
15:29 What we used to do is that after the office hours, go and have a coffee, filter coffee
15:36 and one dosa.
15:37 One dosa.
15:38 Free.
15:39 And if you are staying beyond 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock, you will have lunch also.
15:44 And vehicles will be provided for all the things.
15:47 We also had one culture which is Christian culture, that the lady engineer has to be
15:54 dropped first.
15:55 Suppose there are two gents.
15:56 Yes, yes.
15:57 And lady engineer is there.
15:58 Even if the gents are staying very near to the office and lady is staying far away, the
16:07 gents have to go all the way to her house, drop her safely and then come to their place.
16:12 Right.
16:13 So, that's why I have never heard any complaint of any harassment.
16:19 Right.
16:20 No, no.
16:21 That's the coffee and dosa thing.
16:22 In Bangalore, South India, majority of the people have coffee and dosa.
16:28 Yes, you get it there.
16:29 Because we cannot say we are getting jalebi or eda also like that, you know.
16:34 Well, sir, trust me.
16:36 I mean, someone told me and I keep quoting it time and again that engineers make today
16:41 and scientists design tomorrow.
16:43 So, what you do is light years ahead of, you know, your thinking, your strategy, your planning
16:49 is not for us, although it benefits us also, but for the coming generation also.
16:53 So, hats off, Sunder sir, for all the yeoman's job that you have done, your team has done.
16:59 We have few seconds.
17:00 Yes, please.
17:01 When Aryabhatta, we were making it.
17:02 You know, in the evening, we were all young persons.
17:03 The total average age was 26 years.
17:04 Wow.
17:05 Young people.
17:06 Sir, nobody has seen the satellite.
17:07 So, in the evening, we used to get one, you know, multivitamin tablet, after that, coffee
17:08 and dosa.
17:09 To keep the energy levels up.
17:10 Yes.
17:11 Wow.
17:12 We were young boys.
17:13 So, wow, energy level was high.
17:14 But even one multivitamin tablet, we used to get.
17:15 So, we were young boys.
17:16 So, wow.
17:17 So, we were young boys.
17:18 So, wow.
17:19 So, we were young boys.
17:20 So, wow.
17:21 So, we were young boys.
17:22 So, wow.
17:23 So, we were young boys.
17:24 So, wow.
17:25 So, we were young boys.
17:26 So, wow.
17:27 So, we were young boys.
17:28 So, wow.
17:29 So, we were young boys.
17:30 So, wow, energy level was high.
17:32 But even one multivitamin tablet, we also used to be here.
17:36 Right sir.
17:37 Sir, you know, this, the role of young ISRO scientists, I come from a small town called
17:44 Bokaro Steel City and there, people used to vie for the IIT seats where they wanted to
17:50 go for aeronautics or, you know, try to go for ISRO, becoming a scientist also at times.
17:57 But there, how do you read the youngsters?
18:00 I mean, they are full of energy, they know the technology, they have a long career ahead
18:06 of them.
18:07 See, I was a Vice-Chancellor of Defence Industry, Pune.
18:11 Okay.
18:12 During ISRO, I became Vice-Chancellor after retirement.
18:15 I also know IITs, I know a lot of engineering colleges.
18:21 You see, 99% of the engineers in ISRO, DRDO, Atomic Energy are non-IIT or non-NIITs.
18:33 Okay.
18:34 Is it?
18:35 They are B.Techs from the general colleges.
18:36 They must have done M.Tech there.
18:39 So, it's not that intelligence, only intelligent persons go to IIT.
18:47 Others must have not got a chance, they got a chance everywhere else.
18:51 So, intelligence is available everywhere.
18:53 Wow!
18:54 This is, you know, keeping it part.
18:55 Nice.
18:56 Oh, man!
18:57 And not only this, we don't have foreign trained engineers also.
19:02 They must be hardly less than 20-30.
19:05 All of ISRO, they are all local brands, local engineering colleges and they have done wonderfully
19:14 well.
19:15 I know DRDO, I know same thing is there.
19:18 I was also associated with Atomic Energy and CSIR.
19:21 This is a long career I had with almost everybody.
19:27 So, our engineers are good.
19:29 The thing is that our engineers are not employable.
19:33 I don't know.
19:34 I mean, I have seen, yes, we have trained them.
19:38 But, even in IIT, you have to train.
19:42 He has to be trained.
19:46 Absolutely.
19:47 Practical life is different than the academic what we see in the books.
19:55 Absolutely, that we have also understood.
19:58 Yes, sir.
19:59 When I give a lecture on space technology to the students, I always tell them, your
20:05 books have to pass, get good numbers.
20:08 But practical experience...
20:10 I give you a passport that as soon as you go to the lab or industry, you will start
20:17 working.
20:18 You have to need to get...
20:20 You need to be trained by your seniors.
20:23 So, respect them what they tell because there is no substitute of experience.
20:28 Golden words, sir.
20:29 Golden words.
20:30 Absolutely, sir.
20:31 And we respect that.
20:32 We respect your experience.
20:33 We respect the knowledge that you impart.
20:35 And thank you so much, Mr. Sundarpal, for speaking to us.
20:39 Happy Shabtami and happy Durga Puja to you and your family.
20:42 Happy to you.
20:43 And congrats to you and to the whole country and ISRO for the wonderful achievement today
20:48 where even the failure has turned to positivity.
20:51 Absolutely, sir.
20:53 Absolutely.
20:54 Hats off.
20:55 Thank you so much.
20:56 Not only the failure, the glitch.
20:57 The glitch has become a positive aspect for us and it's a lovely thing.
21:01 It was a small glitch which has increased our knowledge in that direction.
21:10 It makes us richer only.
21:12 Thank you so much.
21:13 Thank you so much, sir.
21:14 Thank you.
21:15 Have a good evening.
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21:20 update.
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