00:00 I think it's what we expected.
00:04 We've known for some time, as has the ombudsman in reports over many years, that the use of
00:09 the drug detection dogs is fairly flawed.
00:12 And what it leads to is a program that's putting people, predominantly young people, through
00:17 a fairly traumatic experience for no reason at all.
00:20 And I think rather, I know the report was based on the level of training that's being
00:25 provided to officers for strip searching and undertaking searches, but the whole program
00:31 needs to be put under review and stopped while that review is happening.
00:36 So New South Wales Police claim that sniffer dogs do work.
00:39 Their basis for that is that they suggest that of the people who don't have drugs on
00:43 them, many do then admit to having recent contact with drugs.
00:47 But are you suggesting that they just shouldn't be used as evidence for searches?
00:51 No, I think that when you have a success rate, and no disrespect to the dogs, I'm sure they're
00:56 hard working and try hard, but a 75% failure rate on detection, that's not a good indicator
01:03 for police then to actually engage in a process with people where they take them behind a
01:08 screen and get them to remove all their clothes and search them for what they believe may
01:14 be drugs, when most of the time we know that's not going to work.
01:16 There just seems to be a lack of understanding about the trauma that creates for some people,
01:21 particularly those, and we've heard of many cases of this, particularly people who are
01:25 attending festivals who may have been in the past victims of sexual assault and the like,
01:30 they sort of, you know, you look nervous, the dog sat down and now you have to take
01:33 all your clothes off and undergo a body cavity search.
01:36 That's just abhorrent really.
01:38 So a police officer does need a reason to search someone for illicit drugs.
01:42 What do you think the bar should be, if not detection by a sniffer dog, what should be
01:48 the bar to give an officer reasonable suspicion?
01:52 Well they should be trained in order to ascertain from asking questions, from looking at the
01:57 person perhaps and understanding what their surroundings are, but it just comes back to
02:02 the fundamental targeting of people attending festivals and events.
02:07 The best analogy I can give you is at Melbourne Cup coming up at the moment, Spring Carnival
02:10 heading into our calendar shortly, we expect a lot of people to be intoxicated.
02:16 What we do is we put in programs to reduce or mitigate the risk, responsible service,
02:21 making sure people don't wander onto the road by having traffic barriers in place and extra
02:26 public transport to mitigate the risk that causes.
02:29 And I think we need that fundamental shift in how we approach drug use at festivals and
02:34 at other events.
02:35 As much as we say it shouldn't occur, we know it occurs, so let's make sure that people
02:40 don't get hurt.
02:41 And there's also the added problem that when you have these programs in place like drug
02:47 detection and lines of police you have to go through to get to a festival, some people
02:51 panic and in one tragic case in WA, the coroner reviewed, found that a young girl who had
02:58 a tablet for herself and a couple of others for her friends panicked, swallowed the lot
03:03 and ended up overdosing, a fatal overdose, at age 17 or 18.
03:09 That's a tragedy that should have been avoided.
03:12 There was a Law Enforcement Conduct Commission review published in New South Wales this week
03:16 into strip searches.
03:17 It found that most of the time records aren't being kept of strip searches to the required
03:22 standard, officers conducting them haven't done mandatory training most of the time.
03:27 Does that suggest anything to you about the attitude of police toward these searches?
03:32 I think because they've been able to get away with doing it for so long without any repercussions
03:37 or any real scrutiny that it's hard to break that.
03:40 But that's why I think the whole program has to stop.
03:43 I just wonder sometimes if people understand what's involved in this process of strip searching
03:49 people.
03:50 Perhaps we should position the dogs just outside New South Wales Parliament entrance and New
03:56 South Wales Police Headquarters and see if they actually stop and sit beside someone
04:00 and the people who advocate this program should maybe participate and understand what it means
04:05 to actually do this to people.
04:07 They seem to be having this worldview that it's always other people and it doesn't matter
04:11 because it's other people.
04:12 Well, they're our kids, our friends and our family and they deserve a bit more respect
04:17 than that, than a 75% failure rate.
04:20 And some people suggest that there's legal questions about the basis for these searches.
04:27 Is there any recourse or has anyone ever tried taking legal action after being strip searched
04:31 because a sniffer dog has sat next to them?
04:35 My understanding is that Redfern Legal Centre, which has a class action going through at
04:39 the moment, because there are a number of people and particularly, unfortunately, young
04:43 women who have been previous victims of sexual assault or that have been put through this
04:48 traumatic process for no reason other than they looked nervous or the dog sat down and
04:52 they weren't carrying any drugs nor had they been in contact with any illicit substances.
04:56 So they were put through that whole ordeal without proper process or a proper rationale
05:05 or reason for that to occur.
05:07 And in some cases, the way they were treated and spoke to only furthered that trauma.
05:12 I think New South Wales Police just have to stop this.
05:17 When you see this occurring and you just wonder about really what sort of society we have
05:22 where police can just say, don't like the look of you, don't like the way you acted,
05:27 come behind this screen, take all your clothes off, we're going to search you.
05:30 [BLANK_AUDIO]
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