00:00 This is a news that is for everyone.
00:02 Privacy is everyone's right.
00:04 And secondly, we are talking about plastic money.
00:07 Means credit cards, debit cards, etc.
00:10 And with that kind of currency,
00:13 you cannot maintain a record of anything.
00:15 But this record, you understand,
00:17 is for your memory and a little ease of use.
00:20 But now, who did what, when did they eat,
00:24 when did they drink, where did they go,
00:26 where did they get petrol from,
00:27 and if they have paid,
00:28 then more than 20 lakh Pakistanis' data has been stolen.
00:33 Why do you need this data?
00:35 Who ate from where, and how much did they pay?
00:38 You can see it on food too.
00:39 I wonder, but this concern is much bigger than this.
00:43 Unknown hackers have attacked the customer database of hundreds of restaurants in Pakistan.
00:48 With the credit cards of the names of the restaurants,
00:50 and the samples of the mobile phone numbers,
00:52 they have also advertised the data for sale on the internet.
00:55 The data of lakhs of Pakistanis has been used for 2 bitcoins.
00:59 Who would want to buy 2 bitcoins?
01:01 I don't know, someone might have to.
01:03 Now, he is telling that the software used for this is special,
01:08 according to the FBI Cybercrime Circle,
01:10 there is no complaint about this.
01:13 But if there is so much access, then think,
01:15 it is not on online shopping, Ashfaq.
01:17 It is there too, there is a need to be careful.
01:20 So, let's talk about this.
01:22 We have with us the head of Cybercrime Wing, Amar Jafri.
01:27 Amar Jafri, it is always a pleasure to have you on the show.
01:30 Good morning.
01:31 Good morning, sir.
01:33 I won't say very good, because this news has come out,
01:36 and the news that is coming out.
01:38 Tell us, it is very concerning that this data is being stolen like this.
01:43 But I wanted to know,
01:45 that the data that the restaurants have,
01:48 does it have a PIN, etc., so that they can access our account?
01:53 Thank you very much for inviting me to this program.
01:58 It is a very important topic.
02:00 Let's go back a little.
02:02 20 years ago, if I gave my credit card to someone in a hotel,
02:08 there was a device, they used to swap it.
02:12 The criminals, the person sitting there,
02:15 they used to say, "Brother, put this device together."
02:18 It was called a scammer device.
02:20 When they put it together, when they swapped it,
02:23 the data was stored in that device, in a small device.
02:27 They used to take that device at night,
02:30 and in a blank white credit card,
02:34 there was a magnetic strip,
02:38 and all the data was stored in it.
02:40 They used to use that.
02:42 I remember that when I was the head of cybercrime,
02:45 we caught many such cases,
02:47 that how did they make it?
02:49 It was not a credit card, it was just a mime, a copy.
02:53 It was a code.
02:55 This is how it worked.
02:57 There was another fraud.
03:00 It was like ATM machines,
03:02 where you put in a card and withdraw money.
03:05 There, instead of an insertion,
03:07 they put a plastic cover on it,
03:09 so that no one knows what it is.
03:11 You just insert your card,
03:13 and the machine does its job,
03:15 withdrawing money.
03:17 But the device, the scammer device,
03:19 it took the card's image,
03:21 and then it used to withdraw money from it.
03:24 - Our neighbor, Dost Mulk, also had a similar device.
03:28 - Exactly.
03:29 This was the whole history.
03:31 What happened now?
03:33 Now, 2.2 million people's data is gone.
03:36 Why?
03:37 This data, the history I told you,
03:40 it didn't come from this.
03:42 It came from there.
03:44 Now, this is a big challenge for the banking industry.
03:47 Because the CVC, the three-pin card,
03:50 is a big secret, it is used everywhere.
03:53 Then your date of birth, your 50 details,
03:56 then your location, where were you at that time.
03:59 You were talking about the physical location,
04:02 what did you eat in the Sadaf Gah,
04:04 people are now looking at this,
04:06 what did you eat, what did you drink,
04:08 so that it can be used.
04:10 The problem is not that the world is being fraud.
04:13 I remember a very old story,
04:15 probably in 2004 or 2005,
04:17 I had a friend, he used to say,
04:19 "Tell me what you want, I'll give you a credit card right now."
04:22 In those days, there were RIC channels,
04:24 so he entered, "Hey, I need a credit card."
04:27 So his gang started giving him cards.
04:30 Okay, let's come to today's problem.
04:32 What has happened in the last few days?
04:34 This data has definitely been stolen from a cloud or a server.
04:38 I think this is the responsibility of the State Bank of Pakistan,
04:42 or whatever, a very big system is working on this,
04:45 the entire banking system is working on this,
04:47 to investigate.
04:48 The first thing is, what has happened?
04:51 Can it be seen?
04:52 How has it happened?
04:53 Can it be seen?
04:54 Now, the money they have asked for,
04:56 they have asked for Bitcoin.
04:58 They are asking for 2 Bitcoins,
05:00 but they are getting 65,000 or 70,000 according to the current rate.
05:04 Think about it yourself,
05:06 this is a very important thing I am telling you,
05:08 that the person will make a payment from here.
05:10 He is going to an ICO,
05:12 the ICO, Initial Coin Offering, the exchanges,
05:15 just like the stock exchanges in our world,
05:18 this is how it happens.
05:19 Now, it is very important to catch these people.
05:21 The law is present.
05:22 The PICA section 13 and 14 are dealing with 2 ICOs.
05:26 13 is dealing with 4G,
05:28 14 is dealing with 4G.
05:30 You read that section,
05:32 otherwise I will never send you.
05:34 Whatever is written in it.
05:36 Now, this means that the FIA has the law,
05:40 the incident has also happened.
05:42 Now, first of all, catch them,
05:44 that why is this credit card data on the server?
05:46 Call them, all the people related to the bank,
05:49 call them respectfully,
05:50 I think the FIA officer will call them.
05:52 But the FIA was saying that we have not received any complaint,
05:55 so now we have to...
05:56 This is Sadaf, this is Sadaf,
05:58 she is saying everything right.
05:59 ...for the citizens whose data is this.
06:01 Yes, yes, Sadaf is saying everything right,
06:04 the FIA officer, I am not protecting them.
06:07 It is an agency which takes cognizance of crime.
06:10 And this is its basic condition,
06:12 to take cognizance that there is a complaint.
06:14 So, I think, today we should voice-chase this program of yours,
06:19 that within the next 2 hours,
06:21 state bank or,
06:23 because it is a regulatory bank,
06:25 or all the banks which are running the credit card system,
06:28 should reach out to the FIA and request them,
06:30 that this incident has happened.
06:32 Look, we have to be proactive.
06:35 Because we are reactive,
06:37 we are still being reactive,
06:38 that this incident has happened, so we came to this.
06:40 Look, I don't know how much time is left in your program.
06:43 The section 2 which I have told you,
06:45 it also has a punishment of 3 years,
06:49 it also has a fine of 250,000 rupees,
06:51 which is less, but it should increase.
06:53 How can we trade? Sir, it is a hacker.
06:55 Sir, in this country, hackers are not known.
06:57 And especially those who are outside the country,
06:59 we don't have jurisdiction to them.
07:01 But in our restaurants,
07:03 this system can be made better,
07:05 the machine through which cards are swapped,
07:09 or credit cards are used.
07:11 And now, I will add one more thing, sir,
07:13 that look, banks have come a long way since that,
07:16 this magnetic strip, you know,
07:18 that it has become a chip-based system.
07:20 I remember that they had updated my card too,
07:22 and now there are security features too,
07:24 so what difference does it make?
07:26 And secondly, I had asked you a question,
07:28 that what is our PIN,
07:30 for example, when we are paying the bill,
07:32 they give you the PIN to generate,
07:34 so does your PIN also go with it?
07:37 No, it doesn't PIN.
07:39 Because if you see, the receipt you give,
07:41 if you put a petrol pump in the car,
07:43 it doesn't come full,
07:45 it comes after the last 4 hours,
07:47 it is in a little time.
07:49 Because, let me tell you,
07:51 first I will answer,
07:53 that the restaurant from which it has been charged,
07:56 it has a system,
07:58 a machine is installed,
08:00 and it brings it to your table,
08:02 all those things are linked.
08:04 So, on top of that, technology says,
08:06 that this chip is written in it,
08:08 you get a copy of it,
08:10 its record is made.
08:12 So, I think,
08:14 we should go as a try,
08:16 and send them 2 bitcoins,
08:18 and check, if it comes back,
08:20 if it is a fraud,
08:22 if it is in the process of taking bitcoins,
08:24 because criminals do this also,
08:26 they do this.
08:28 First he will say,
08:30 I will give you for 20,000,
08:32 then he will say more demand.
08:34 One related issue is a little different,
08:36 Mr. Amar,
08:38 we often see in the streets,
08:40 outside the shops,
08:42 they are giving free SIM cards,
08:44 and hence power banks,
08:46 because what is free,
08:48 in this time of inflation,
08:50 people jump in,
08:52 and this is also dangerous.
08:54 And they are taking your fingerprint.
08:56 Yes, it is very dangerous.
08:58 I will tell you,
09:00 I did a little research,
09:02 in the field,
09:04 a poor lady,
09:06 gets down from the bus,
09:08 like in Khanewal, Multan,
09:10 she says, mother,
09:12 I got a free SIM card,
09:14 what will happen,
09:16 mother, I want to keep a note,
09:18 now she will keep a note,
09:20 that this has to be verified,
09:22 you know what kind of material they use.
09:24 Now she will say,
09:26 mother, the note was not correct,
09:28 I will give you the address,
09:30 I will come to your house.
09:32 Now she has gone to her house,
09:34 she made this in the name of her mother.
09:36 You think for yourself,
09:38 you often do this program with me,
09:40 all these frauds,
09:42 they have made us aware.
09:44 When she was told,
09:46 whatever uncle,
09:48 I don't say much,
09:50 he said, I don't want to do it,
09:52 why don't we go,
09:54 we are ready to take everything for free.
09:56 You said, the charging,
09:58 I went to China a few days ago,
10:00 for this kind of activity,
10:02 I was coming back,
10:04 my charger,
10:06 which I used,
10:08 had a small crack,
10:10 I said, take it out,
10:12 throw it away,
10:14 I said, I have to go to Beijing,
10:16 I have time,
10:18 he said, look behind,
10:20 I saw behind,
10:22 it was written,
10:24 whoever argues here,
10:26 he will be arrested.
10:28 I am telling you two things from here,
10:30 one is, look at the rule of law,
10:32 although I had come to leave people
10:34 from the state of China,
10:36 I immediately presented it to him,
10:38 I said, whoever argues here,
10:40 he will be arrested.
10:42 Look at the rule of law,
10:44 he took the crack of my charger,
10:46 and said, take this.
10:48 So I think,
10:50 when you and I are talking,
10:52 we should work on this,
10:54 and all the people who will be involved in this,
10:56 I will give them a free offer,
10:58 absolutely free offer,
11:00 come, sit, meet and talk on this.
11:02 Okay. Thank you so much,
11:04 Amar Jafri Sahib,
11:06 International Director of FIA,
11:08 was with us. Thank you so much.
11:10 Your data is very valuable.
