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Priorità dell'Ue tra competitività e transizione verde: il duello a The Ring

In questa edizione del nostro programma di dibattito, gli eurodeputati Benedetta Scuderi (Verdi) dall’Italia e Markus Ferber (PPE) dalla Germania si confrontano sul tema decisivo per l’UE.

ALTRE INFORMAZIONI : http://it.euronews.com/2026/11/12/priorita-dellue-tra-competitivita-e-transizione-verde-il-duello-a-the-ring

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00:08Hello and welcome to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show broadcasting from the European
00:14Parliament in Brussels. I'm Stefan Grobe. On The Ring, debaters go face-to-face on some
00:19of the biggest political issues facing the EU. Today, we want to talk about the right
00:25priorities for Europe's future. Politically speaking, what should the EU focus on delivering
00:31before the end of its mandate? Luis Albertos has more.
00:39Europe wants to be greener, richer, safer and more competitive. But can it realistically
00:45deliver on all these ambitions at once? The challenges are enormous. An increasingly volatile
00:51geopolitical situation is forcing Europe to rethink its security and economic model.
00:56At the same time, European industries are struggling with high energy costs,
01:00excessive regulation and fierce global competition. Is it time for Brussels to put competitiveness
01:06first, even if that means slowing down the green transition? But there's another dilemma – money.
01:12Should Europe spend less, cut red tape and rain in its ambitions? Or should Europe have a bigger
01:17EU budget, more common investment and stronger social and climate policies? And does it have
01:23the political will to shape its own future?
01:29A lot to unpack here for our contenders. And here they are!
01:35Benedetta Scuderi, an Italian MEP from the Greens. She's a member of the Committees on Industry, Research
01:41and Energy and Women's Rights and Gender Equality. She says, One of the priorities is definitely to achieve
01:47European autonomy – not in terms of military spending, but in our energy, digital and industrial
01:52cleantech capacity. The goal is to phase out fossil fuels and re-industrialize our regions in a socially
01:57just way – thinking of our people and territories. And let's make polluters pay for this!
02:04Marco Swerber, a German MEP from the Central-Right European People's Party. A long-serving member of the European
02:10Parliament, he's the Vice-Chair of the Subcommittee on Tax Matters and a member of the Committee on
02:14Economic and Monetary Affairs. He says, The EU must prioritize competitiveness, economic growth and
02:21simplification – not deregulation. We need to achieve the same ambitious goals with less bureaucracy
02:26and paperwork – because only a strong economy can finance our climate ambitions, security and social model.
02:35So let me welcome to the ring Benedetta Scuderi and Marco Swerber. Great to have you here. Good to see
02:42you.
02:42Speaking of legislative priorities for 2027, is Brussels addressing the issues that really matter to
02:50European citizens or is it still setting its agenda from inside the Brussels bubble? What is the strategy, if there
02:58is any?
02:58The strategy is, in comparison to the last period where the Green Deal was the headline for five years,
03:04competitiveness is the headline of this five years period. And that means we have to get rid of
03:09bureaucracy. We have to take care on competitiveness of our industry and our SMEs as well. And if we
03:17have a growth on GDP, we have a growth on the European budget as well. That is the easiest thing
03:22to
03:22understand. And therefore, growth and competitiveness is number one, of course, to have sustainable growth,
03:28to, of course, to have social economy driven growth. But growth is the key answer.
03:34Benedetta, are you subscribing to this?
03:37Growth doesn't happen because we want it to happen. And Europe is a proof of it. With all the political
03:43powers that are investing in today's capacities, and Europe that is not investing in its capacity,
03:48is not investing in energy transition enough, is not investing in adaptation enough, is not investing
03:53in digital transition, is not investing in a social justice, because the investments we do are well
03:59below what we need, then we're never going to thrive as a continent, as a European Union, as a political
04:05union. If we are not a political union, first thing, then we're never going to thrive.
04:10So, Markus, is Europe investing in an old model rather than into digital economy, cyber technology?
04:18I think we have firstly to discuss who has to invest. If everything should be invested by the
04:23public, sorry, we will never be able to deliver. What we have to create is an environment where
04:27private investment takes place. And what we see at the moment is that the big investors of the world
04:33are moving away from Europe, from Germany as well, but from Europe in total as well. And so we have
04:39a
04:40lack of in foreign investments, but we have a lot of investments from European companies outside the
04:45European Union. And that is our main threat we are confronted with. And if you ask industry, why is
04:50that happening? Number one, high energy prices. Number two, high bureaucracy costs. Number three,
04:57the level of skills of the employees. And I think that are things we have to address.
05:04The point is that my country argument is his argument, because he said two of the three things
05:09that are stopping our companies to be able to invest in Europe are energy. And we need to invest in
05:13energy. Energy prices are super high because we are extremely dependent on gas and gas imports. And
05:20that's what is making our energy prices high. And that's what we need to invest. That's what we're saying.
05:24And I'm sorry, on these investments, these are, they need to come from public. They need to be
05:29publicly driven, cannot be only public, but they need to be publicly driven because we know where
05:33the market is going. They don't care about, about energy prices like the big fossil companies.
05:39They are making huge profits about from our crisis. They're not going to invest in what it will make
05:44us better. And we need to drive that. And the second thing, skills, who can make the skills? We, we
05:50have
05:50the skill, the union of skills. And we need to implement that, invest in that and make it
05:56right. So that means that we really need to be sure that the skills that we need are everywhere in
06:03every angle of Europe. So investing in skills, that sounds, sounds good to me, Marcus. Yeah,
06:08but the problem is who is responsible for what? And we cannot say every problem in Europe has to be
06:12addressed by the European Union. We need member states who really engage because education, social welfare,
06:18all this stuff is national competence. And according to the treaties, it's their obligation. On the
06:23other hand of energy, sorry, you come from a member state who is a net consumer on energy.
06:28Italy was never able even to deliver the own energy for its own industry. I come from a member state
06:34who could in the past, but now we are net consumers as well. If we have only net consumers in
06:39the European
06:39Union, we have a problem. So where are the possibilities to produce energy for the industry? And that will not
06:46be
06:46done only by photovoltaics and windmills. Sorry, we need other sources as well. And that is what we
06:51are not equipping for the moment because we have high bureaucratic burden for this investment, even
06:56for a windmill. In Germany, it takes one year only to get the allowance to construct a windmill. Sorry,
07:02we are far away from achieving our goals. Okay, Benedetta, your answer. Absolutely that we need to fasten
07:07up our permitting procedures. Absolutely. Our bureaucracy. But why are you against the omnibuses then?
07:13Because they are not simplification, they are deregulation. Omnibus, by the way, is not about cars.
07:18It's about deregulation, simplification. If you think that to make a windmill, we need to take
07:23away the due diligence of multinational companies, I don't think so. I don't think due diligence of
07:28multinational companies, that's where Omnibus that you bought it for. That's what you made into
07:33Omnibus. Well, as you made it into Omnibus, deeper restoration you made into an Omnibus. I never heard an
07:38Omnibus about the fastening up permitting of windmills, in my opinion, that there was not.
07:43Now we have a permitting fasting that is coming in the in the next in the next commission program,
07:49and I'm really willing to work on it. And as Greens, we're really willing to work on it.
07:52We had the red that was about fastening up permitting and the Greens were in it.
07:56But the point is fastening up permitting doesn't need to be for data center, doesn't need to be for big
08:02companies. It needs to be for what we actually need, like windmills, like a solar and solar energy.
08:09And so we don't need data centers.
08:10All right.
08:11All right.
08:11It needs to be just one second.
08:13You will not create growth without data centers.
08:16How do you think we can achieve growth?
08:17Look to the United States.
08:19The only driving force is AI.
08:21AI needs data centers.
08:23We don't have growth. We don't have competitiveness.
08:26I see. We're just getting warmed up here, which is which is really good.
08:29But now it's time for gloves off.
08:36Now we want viewers to get a real flavor of the European Parliament.
08:40We've already got this a little bit where members ask each other questions.
08:45And Benedetta, I'd like you to ask the first question to Marcus.
08:49So as we were getting into it, we have a huge need to achieve our digital autonomy
08:55and our digital strategy.
08:57So I'm just wondering, but we cannot do this if we are selling out our data, our resources to big
09:04American big tech.
09:06So I'm wondering if the EPP is fine to have a European Digital Strategy and Implementation Act,
09:13but most of all to have regulation and a clear authorization process for data center in order to not give
09:20our data and our energy and our water to big American big techs that will not do anything about digital
09:29autonomy.
09:29So do you want to have a strong regulation and a strong strategy for digital autonomy for having European data
09:36centers?
09:36I think that is not the right question. The question is even for European investors.
09:42And I have a few of them in Germany who really want to invest in data centers to safeguard, for
09:46example, the data protection regulation,
09:49which means data from Europe should stay in Europe and not misused by NSA in the United States.
09:56But they have a problem to get allowance to have the energy to get the allowance for the water.
10:02Sorry, if you make a strategy only protecting for other investments, but not taking care that the investments are taking
10:08place.
10:09Sorry, that is what you're doing because you don't grant the energy.
10:13We have only four places in Germany where you have enough energy to run a data center.
10:18Sorry, that is the challenge. It's not the question who is investing.
10:20No one can invest because the infrastructure is not appropriate.
10:25And you are defending that we can invest in the infrastructure, which is a public demand.
10:30But then private investors will come even from inside the European Union.
10:33That is the wrong approach.
10:35Sorry, but then if we see 90 percent of the data center that are asking and are doing the data
10:41center is American companies.
10:43It's not European companies. If you see an island where 20 percent of electricity is for American companies,
10:4820 percent of electricity is for data center. And most of it is for American companies.
10:52Look at Italy. Sorry, get out of Germany. If this is the situation in Germany, look at Europe, look at
10:56Finland.
10:57But Ireland is a very special problem, which we have for years.
11:00So if you don't have regulation against this, then you're not going to have...
11:03Sorry, if you know everything better, we can stop the discussion. It's now my turn to ask a question to
11:07you.
11:07On the contrary, Marcus, I want to ask Benedetta a question now.
11:12Yeah, that's what I wanted to do, but thanks that I have a chance.
11:15Your group, the Green Group, calls the program for next year, and I quote, an attack against nature.
11:22Are you really sure that you are reading correctly what the commission has proposed?
11:26Are you really sure if we are reviewing any regulation after five years?
11:31And we have, for example, the habitat regulation, which is older than 35 years.
11:36And a lot of things have changed that we have a look on that.
11:39And that is not an attack against nature, but really adjusting to a new situation.
11:45I think that adjusting to a new situation would be extremely great if you look at what is the situation.
11:50But it looks like the EPP is not looking at the climate collapse.
11:54You're not able to do anything about the climate.
11:57You're not able to do anything about the climate collapse.
11:58That is unacceptable.
12:01That is unacceptable, really.
12:02That is unacceptable, really.
12:03Because all the omnibus, as you really fight for them, are going against anything that would be a climate collapse.
12:09Which omnibus? Tell me, which omnibus?
12:11I told you, deforestation.
12:13The omnibus on deforestation is not in an omnibus.
12:16Sorry, don't tell stories which are not the truth.
12:19In which omnibus is deforestation?
12:22Tell me, it's not right what you are saying.
12:25Due diligence, then.
12:27It was one of the strongest things that we had for the climate collapse.
12:30Thunderlein said in 2019 that will be the rise to the moon.
12:34But the rise to the moon did not work with bureaucracy, it worked with technology.
12:39And that is what we are suffering.
12:40We don't need a rise to the moon.
12:40We need to protect this planet.
12:42We need to protect this planet.
12:44We don't need a rise to the moon.
12:45The moon is unlivable.
12:46And you want to make this planet unlivable as much as the moon, I think.
12:50That's what you want to do.
12:51All right.
12:52All right.
12:53If you like the moon, I don't want to make the F the moon.
12:55What was Ursula von der Leyen, as I said?
12:56Do you have, Marcus, just a second.
12:59Because I really regret that.
13:00Do you have another question for Marcus?
13:06Short one.
13:07For sure.
13:07Good one.
13:08So we have need for socially just Europe.
13:12And we have a huge amount of our population that is not able to sustain a living.
13:17Is not able to find a house.
13:18That regards young people, people of my age.
13:21That regards all the people.
13:22That regards workers.
13:24Workers in cities are not able to go and work in the city anymore.
13:28Because they cannot afford an apartment.
13:30They cannot even afford a room.
13:32So I'm wondering if the EPP is able to look at this problem.
13:35Not saying that we need to build more.
13:38because many of our cities have enough empty houses.
13:41So probably it's not the number of houses.
13:43But to say that we need to regulate Airbnb and to say that we need to have more public
13:50houses that are actually public and for actually low income people and solution for middle income
13:56people.
13:57Are you able to say that?
13:58Or we just need to build with deregulation?
14:00I'm a little bit surprised that you have taken EPP as we had the rapporteur on the housing
14:04committee.
14:05Let him answer.
14:06I would be very happy even to say one sentence without being disturbed.
14:14We had the rapporteur from EPP and he drafted a report which was adopted by a huge majority
14:20by the European Parliament.
14:22And one of the key quotes of this report is that we need to build more houses.
14:27Sorry, because we have a lack of that.
14:30We asked, and that part was not supported by the Greens, that we need less bureaucracy to build
14:37houses.
14:37Sorry, that's the same problem.
14:39In Germany it takes eight years when a city decides to make an area for construction
14:44till you have the right to construct something on that.
14:47The rest of the world does it in one to two years, even protecting environment and taking care
14:52of standards.
14:53Sorry, that is our problem.
14:55And that is the problem of the Green Group because you are refusing that we have an omnibus
14:59for the housing area.
15:01You will not be able to finance all this stuff by public investments.
15:04We need private investments for that and therefore we have to make it cheaper and therefore
15:08Europe can play a role.
15:10Okay, Marcus, one last question to Benedetta in this round.
15:14Yeah, so if we speak about autonomy and stuff like that, I think we have to speak about trade
15:19agreements as well.
15:20How Europe can create a rule-based world with trade partners around the globe.
15:26And I was wondering why, for example, the Green Group was voting against the Mercosur agreement,
15:31with the far right, by the way, and brought it to the Court of Justice without ratifying it.
15:38Sorry, I was surprised.
15:39That is the wrong answer for the demands we need and the Greens are asking for.
15:43Okay.
15:44It's funny that it's coming from an EPP member.
15:47It's not funny.
15:47I'm sorry for the far right, with the far right.
15:49No, you vote more with the far right than us.
15:51Sorry.
15:51Let her answer.
15:53Let her answer.
15:53But they actually made agreement with the far right to vote about migration.
16:01They brought it together, and now they are claiming to us that we voted in our long-standing
16:10position that was against this agreement on Mercosur, because it's first, it's damaging our people.
16:1725 years' negotiation is cast.
16:19Let her just develop this.
16:21On which planet are you living?
16:23Let her just develop this, please.
16:25Sorry, sorry.
16:26You calm down, because you didn't even hear what I said, and you're saying, which planet are you living?
16:30So what's your problem?
16:31Because if you hear what I say, if you hear what I say, and then you say that I live
16:39in another planet,
16:40then you can say it, but you don't even hear what I say, then you are in another planet,
16:44because you don't know what's my argument.
16:45You said we negotiated fast.
16:4825 years is fast for you.
16:50Good luck.
16:50You see, it's just 25 years, 25 years.
16:52We were against all along, because you make this deal just for profit.
16:56You don't make this deal for people here, and you don't make this deal for people in the Amazon.
17:00You don't make this deal for our farmers.
17:02That will be, and they're already asking the review of the deal, because they are damaged by unfair competition.
17:10You didn't make a deal with clear rules about what can come in,
17:14because now meat that is made with deforestation can come in, which is damaging our farmers.
17:20You are against free trade in total.
17:22And you didn't make this deal for the people in the Amazon.
17:23So you are against free trade in total.
17:25All right.
17:25We've got to take a break here.
17:26So that's my argument.
17:28So who is in another planet?
17:29It's you.
17:30I'm not against fair trade.
17:31Yes, you are.
17:32Because that's a problem.
17:34I'm against trade without fairness.
17:35We've got to take a break here.
17:36There is a fair trade agreement.
17:38Sorry.
17:38We've got to take a break here.
17:39Thank you very much so far to our guest.
17:42That's it for now on The Ring.
17:45Stay with us here on Euronews.
17:56Welcome to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show.
17:59I'm Stefan Grobet.
18:00I'm joined by two members of the European Parliament, Benedetta Scuderi from the Italian Greece
18:05and Markus Verberg, Christian Democrat from Germany.
18:08Today, we debated the political and legislative priorities of the EU.
18:13And we discussed whether Brussels is addressing the issues that matter to people, to European citizens.
18:20Now, what is important to Europeans?
18:22What are their worries?
18:23What are their demands?
18:25And here we have two recent Eurobarometer surveys that give a pretty good picture of what people are thinking.
18:31When asked, what should the European Parliament prioritize?
18:35Inflation, rising prices and cost of living.
18:4047% say that almost half of the population.
18:43When it comes to the economy and job creation, it's 35%.
18:47And a little less, 34%, say it's EU defense and security.
18:52And when asked how the EU's budget should be allocated, employment, social affairs and public health comes in on top.
19:0141%, a little less, 38%, say security and defense.
19:06And finally, 33% say the money should be allocated for education, training, youth, culture and media, go figure.
19:16So, the issue of inflation and increased cost of living is on top of the list.
19:22Not really surprising.
19:24Is the EU, are European governments doing enough to bring prices down and protect households and businesses?
19:30Markus, I'm going to start with you.
19:31Yeah, the fight on the inflation is a responsibility of the European Central Bank, to be very honest.
19:37It's not something we can do as politicians.
19:40Price stability is a mandate of the European Central Bank.
19:43And in my capacity as member of the Econ Committee, we are in direct exchange with Christine Lagarde.
19:50And I hope, as she has resigned, we will get someone who will really fight against inflation in the years
19:55to come, because that will be a key issue.
19:57And therefore, we have to do, as I said before, some investments to reduce the costs as we have high
20:03demands and low supply that is increasing costs and prices.
20:06Right.
20:08Benelida, we've been hearing these complaints about the high cost of living for quite some time now, but yet nothing
20:16has changed, nothing tangible has changed for European households, families and businesses.
20:22What's wrong here?
20:23I really think Europe should do a step up and should take a big part into this, because I'm a
20:29federalist and I believe that Europe has to have a big role into the well-being of people.
20:34And that's why we are asking for more social investments.
20:37That's why we're asking for investments in housing.
20:39That's why we're asking for investment in energy, because who is what is driving up the prices?
20:44Yeah, it's inflation, can be the central bank.
20:46But what is driving up inflation is the energy prices a lot, is the voice driving up the prices is
20:53the rent prices and so on and so forth.
20:55If we don't do investments into these things, then nothing's going to change for people.
20:59And I really think that the European Parliament should step up and should be clear in what is our direction.
21:07And that's why I was saying at the beginning, this work program is not clearly going into this direction and
21:11the budget of the European Union is not really going into this direction.
21:14The moment of crisis we're living now, we are even thinking about decreasing the current budget that is like pennies
21:23at the moment.
21:24I think we need to step up.
21:25You mentioned the EU budget.
21:27We have these heated talks going on for quite some time, probably until the end of the year.
21:32What should the EU budget focus on, Marcus?
21:36Yeah.
21:37What are the topics?
21:38Of course, it's not only one.
21:39If you would have here colleagues from the agri-committee, from agriculture policy, they would say, yes, it's very important
21:45to be resilient in the food supply and in the production.
21:48If you have people from the poor region, they would say regional policy is key, cohesion policy is key.
21:55If you ask me, coming from Germany, I say research and innovation is key.
22:00So we have to prioritize, of course, if we have limited resources and sorry, the budget, the public budgets have
22:06limited resources on national level and on European level.
22:09But to be very clear, as we have for the moment, 1.1 percent of the GDP.
22:15That's our budget.
22:16If we increase the GDP, we have more resources.
22:19So I think growth, competitiveness is a key element, even to have more resources available to fulfill all the obligations
22:26people are asking from the European Union.
22:28Okay. What about security and defense?
22:30How do we reconcile this with limited resources, as Marcus said, and now we need to spend more on defense?
22:37I first want to say that I'm a bit tired of this fairy tale of the market and the growth
22:42and everything is going to be fine.
22:44And in the meantime, people are going to be dead and starving.
22:47This is what is happening.
22:48If we wait for this growth that will come eventually and will save us all because the GDP is going
22:53to increase and then we're going to increase the budget, then our people are going to starve.
22:57They don't want this.
23:00They can't keep up anymore.
23:03So the point is we have resources.
23:05It's not true that we don't have resources because look at the money.
23:08Money is very much going to very small, very big pockets of very small amount of people.
23:15So the point is, are we strong enough to take resources from who has the resources?
23:21Because billionaires, because huge profits are increasing and increasing and increasing.
23:26These equalities are increasing and increasing.
23:27What we are telling to the people that now cannot afford to pay for the shop, for the grocery.
23:34We are telling them, sorry, let's make them richer, the 1% of the population, the 0.1% of
23:39the population richer.
23:40So maybe at some point with the tickle down, we all be richer.
23:44We say that's this for a century now.
23:46And what is happening is that inequalities are just increasing and people are worse.
23:51So maybe now it's time to say to the people, to 99%, sorry, we were wrong.
23:57We want to take the money from the smallest part of the population that has the billions, from the huge
24:02profits of who is actually damaging our planet.
24:05In that situation that you just described, sorry, in that situation that you just described,
24:10it makes it even tougher to increase defense and military spending.
24:15How do we reconcile this?
24:17I think we need to look at security as a broader thing when we talk about security.
24:24And one of the problems of the politics today in Europe and in many of our member states is that
24:29we look at security only as weapons.
24:31And if we think that we're going to be more secure just buying more weapons, then this is not the
24:37answer.
24:37We need to look at security as resilience.
24:40We need to look at security as digital cyber security.
24:43And I think these days are really telling us this.
24:45We need to look at security also as security from climate events.
24:49Like security is really a broader concept.
24:51And we need to increase our budget to be able to spend money on security as a broader content and
24:59on all the other priorities,
25:00because they are also extremely important.
25:02And the survey showed it.
25:03We cannot take from one to give to the other because that will not work.
25:07Okay.
25:08Markus, I'll give you the floor once we've reached the next round as it's time to move on and go
25:14to round number four.
25:20And this brings us to our quote of the week today from the EU Commissioner for Economy and Productivity, Valdis
25:27Dombrovskis.
25:27He said recently, and I quote, in 2027, we will go further in tackling unnecessary burdens and addressing implementation gaps
25:36in areas such as transport, housing and digital and accelerating permitting.
25:42Our goal is clear, less red tape and complexity for citizens and more scope for businesses to invest, innovate and
25:50grow.
25:51Markus, you've heard the commissioner.
25:54Do you agree with him?
25:56Yes, it's the right agenda because as we have a lack of investment, as we have a lack of productivity
26:02growth, we have to invest in the new technologies.
26:05And of course, we have to invest in decarbonization. That's why energy is key. If you want to decarbonize by
26:12electrification and you want to have investments in AI, for example, you need more electricity than in the past.
26:20And we don't have that at the moment. And we have to do it sustainable. So therefore, huge investments are
26:25needed and possibilities to do the investments.
26:29And that's why bureaucratic burden are one of the key elements we are confronted with on European level.
26:34And there we have to find a solution, but as well on member states, on regional level, because at the
26:39end for the entrepreneurs, for the local authorities, it's a huge bulk of bureaucracy burdens coming from each political level.
26:48So we have to deliver, but member states and regions as well.
26:51Where do you draw the line between deregulation and sort of less spending, less benefits for, you know, people like
27:02families, the people who benefit from the current, from the crisis?
27:06Deregulation, maybe the wrong word is simplification, make it easier, make it simpler, not make it less burdensome in the
27:14sense of misusing nature, misusing water, misusing.
27:18Deregulation, animal protection, biodiversity or whatever, even social systems.
27:23So simplification is the right answer. And that is one of the key problems.
27:27Inside the commission, you have silos of different general directories who do not know what the other is doing.
27:33But at the end, all this stuff comes to the people, comes to the local authorities, comes to the entrepreneurs
27:39and to get rid of these things, to achieve the main goals.
27:44But to simplify it, I think that is a key element. And the other thing is, of course, to create
27:49an environment where foreign investments will take place in the European Union as well.
27:53There we have really a lack. And that is what we have to address.
27:57OK, Bernadette, simplification, as Marco said, is that a concept you could adhere to?
28:02Absolutely. When simplification is simplification, we are all in as Greens. We want to be faster on the transition, but
28:11we need to be knowing where we're going.
28:13So not just step backwards into our goals, because it's important also for investments, not just to simplify, but to
28:20give a clear direction, which now is a bit unsure in this European Union.
28:25We need to simplify the bureaucratic processes and we need to simplify more than simplify to make efficient and more
28:33united what the commission is doing and what the territories are doing.
28:36What I'm wondering, though, is that why EPP is not doing this? Because you're running the European Commission.
28:42I wasn't using EPP.
28:43You're running the parliament. I mean, the EPP has had the president of the commission for the last seven years
28:49and a half now.
28:50And in this parliament, you're the biggest, the biggest group. So why is this not happening? Why the commission has
28:56not reformed?
28:56Because actually the commission now is even more divided into silos. It's even more complicated.
29:01Why are you not talking more with the territories? Why there's no more efficiencies?
29:05Like I am wondering why this is not happening already, because we are all agreeing.
29:09The problem is that sometimes behind the simplification, there's no difference in the bureaucratic process, but there's a lot of
29:17difference in the rules.
29:18And who is paying the price is local communities and nature. And this is the problem.
29:22Yeah. Sorry, it's not the EPP problem. To be very clear, it's a problem of the institution itself.
29:27Even in the parliament, you are sitting in the E3, I'm sitting in the Econ.
29:31When have we negotiated something, although we are dealing with roundabout the same things?
29:35Yeah. We do macroeconomic tools, you do industry policy, but there's a lot of interlinkage.
29:40We never discuss it. You make your legislation. The competitiveness fund, for example, Econ is fully out.
29:46Although there are a lot of things. State age rules, we are responsible. Competition rules, we are responsible.
29:51Tax rules, we are responsible. You don't take care. So don't blame EPP.
29:56It's a system problem which you are not addressing because you are misusing the system.
30:00How do we get out of this? That is what the Greens are doing.
30:02You live with this system because you can develop things which are really harming us.
30:07Do no significant harm is harming us. It's harming investments.
30:11You invented it and brought it to all committees and to all realities.
30:14The question is how do we get out of this?
30:16It's not EPP. It's the Greens who disturb it.
30:18You both describe the same problem maybe from a different perspective.
30:22So my question is how do we get out of this?
30:24How do we get out of a system that you describe as way too cumbersome, too bureaucratic,
30:28and to the detriment of the people?
30:33I think Europe should focus on the main issues which really are European issues
30:37and not a Christmas tree with promises to everyone and everything
30:42because we have local authorities with their responsibility.
30:46I come from a federal state, regional authorities with their competences,
30:50the national level and the European level.
30:52If we focus on the really big things on European level,
30:55we will have the support by the citizens and we will be able to deliver what is really demanded.
31:00So Parliament and Council are co-legislators, right?
31:05What happens if MEPs refuse to dilute legislation that the Commission wants to simplify?
31:13First of all, let me thank Marcus for the esteem he has in the Greens.
31:19Like we are the third smallest group in the Parliament
31:23and we are managing to decide the agenda of the whole European Union.
31:27This is incredible.
31:29It's an incredible result.
31:31I am so amazed to be part of this group, you know?
31:34Like they are the biggest party in the Parliament.
31:37They have the majority of the government and they have the President of the Commission
31:40but who is harming Europe is the decision of the Greens that are setting the agenda.
31:45This is an incredible achievement.
31:46But that is what happened in the last period with the majority, with Socialists, Renew and Communists.
31:51Sorry, that is what you did to deforestation with five votes ahead.
31:56Do not significant harm is an incredibly important principle that I thank the Greens.
32:02If it's really because of the Greens, I thank the Greens to excess,
32:06not because I'm part of it but because it's an incredibly important principle
32:09that I'm sorry but was taken on also from your President of the Commission.
32:13I want to remember, it's an EPP from Germany and she wanted it in.
32:17So, and this is actually supporting nature, supporting the people.
32:21Five votes ahead in the plenary.
32:22How can you say, do not significant harm is harming us.
32:26If it's harming, you should not do it and that is the basis of the principle.
32:30You brought it in with five votes majority in this period.
32:32Okay, okay.
32:33Sorry.
32:34Guys, I think there's disagreement, fair enough, right?
32:38Huge disagreement.
32:39Huge disagreement.
32:40And I thank you for that.
32:41On that note, we can close this point as it is time to move on to our fifth and final
32:46round.
32:50As we want to do something different, I'm going to ask you a set of questions
32:56and you can only answer with a yes or no.
33:00Okay?
33:01So, has the political centre lost control of the political agenda,
33:06the European agenda to the far right and the populists?
33:10Yes.
33:12Markus?
33:14No, of course not.
33:16Okay.
33:17Should defence spending take priority over climate spending?
33:21That's not the issue.
33:22Sorry.
33:24Climate spending is a European responsibility.
33:26Defence for the moment is a national one.
33:27Yes, but now we have a defence commissioner and somebody in general.
33:31Yeah, in general it's not so easy to answer as we don't have European projects.
33:34I would love to have European projects to finance, not to finance national budgets.
33:39Okay.
33:39So, in that case, we are responsible for climate, not for defence.
33:43Okay.
33:44Actually, we have the ECF, the majority of it is going into defence and a minority is going
33:49for climate.
33:49So, we have already the answer where the direction is going.
33:52and I would say no, it should not take over the climate.
33:56Okay.
33:57Good.
33:58Next one.
33:59Does Europe need a bigger EU budget?
34:01Absolutely, yes.
34:03No, more focused.
34:05Okay.
34:06Should the EU abandon its 20-40 climate ambitions if they undermine competitiveness?
34:13Absolutely, no.
34:14We have to achieve both, yes.
34:16Should member states be allowed to run bigger deficits to invest in defence?
34:21No.
34:21No.
34:22No.
34:23Okay.
34:25Climate protection?
34:26No, as well.
34:27Is common European debt necessary?
34:30Absolutely, yes.
34:32No.
34:32It transfers only the cost to another source which is not able to pay.
34:37Okay.
34:37Should agricultural subsidies be cut to finance European security?
34:41Only a little bit.
34:43I don't think, no.
34:45And last one.
34:47Is the EU doing enough to convince younger Europeans that the European project offers them a better future?
34:53Unfortunately, no at the moment.
34:56I think the EU is really pro-European and we should help them to continue being so.
35:01Okay.
35:03On that note, thank you very much.
35:05And that brings us to the end of this strong edition of The Ring.
35:10Thanks again to Benedetta Scudelli and Marcus Febber for a lively conversation here from the European Parliament.
35:16Thanks to our audience at home.
35:18If you like, you can continue the conversation by sending us your comments to thering at euronews.com.
35:25We'd love to have your feedback.
35:26That's it for today.
35:28I'm Stefan Grobe.
35:29Take care and see you soon here on euronews.

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