- 34 minutes ago
The political confrontation between the INDIA bloc and the Bharatiya Janata Party has escalated over the Special Summary Revision process, Election Commission functioning, and voter roll controversies. Following a gathering by opposition parties at Delhi's Ramlila Maidan, the Bharatiya Janata Party organised counter-rallies, demonstrations, and padayatras across Hyderabad, Bihar, and West Bengal. Senior leaders, including Congress leader Renuka Chowdhury and BJP leader Sushmita Dev, traded arguments over turnout figures, public grievances, draft electoral rolls, and voter deletions. An India Today panel featuring Tavleen Singh, Ashutosh, and Rajat Sethi analyzed the political fallout, addressing allegations concerning Chief Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar, opposition demonstrations targeting constitutional bodies, and the question of contesting elections amid manipulation claims. The panelists examined street mobilization versus organizational readiness, regional strategies including the Samajwadi Party's focus on Uttar Pradesh, and the BJP's counter-measures ahead of upcoming assembly elections. The standoff highlights sharp disputes surrounding electoral integrity, crowd numbers, and narrative building across state battlegrounds.
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NewsTranscript
00:00All right, it is indeed a war of optics, isn't it viewers, where it comes down to narrative building from
00:05both sides where politics is concerned.
00:08Yesterday was a show of strength where the India Alliance was concerned on the 1st November Ramlila rally.
00:15Well, the BJP has also now built a counter-offensive and it's coming in from the streets.
00:21The political battle over SIR, the Election Commission and Vochori has now taken to the streets.
00:29Protest versus protest. Optics versus optics.
00:33The India Bloc bought its top guns together in Delhi while the BJP mounted a parallel show of strength across
00:39multiple cities with rallies, padhyatras, public impeachments and competing claims.
00:45Here's more.
00:47Watch out! Watch out! Watch out!
00:59The streets are now the battlefield and the war of optics is getting fiercer by the day.
01:08As the India Bloc turns up the heat over SIR and Vochori, the BJP is hitting back with a street
01:17offensive of its own.
01:19Rallies, padhyatras and political power shows.
01:23The battle for the narrative is now in full swing.
01:29Leading the BJP's counter-charge, Party Chief Nitin Nabeen held two padhyatras today.
01:34One in Bihar, another in Bengal.
01:37The message?
01:38Take on the opposition's Vochori charge head-on.
01:44And Amit Shah took the battle to Hyderabad as the BJP widens his counter-offensive.
01:50We are prepared to call the 17th parliament.
01:55We are ready to call the 17th parliament.
01:59But they will not call the 17th parliament.
02:04Because they know that from the NRC, from the RRQ,
02:12the Congress Party can keep your news in the debates.
02:19The BJP Street Offensive comes after the opposition's mega show of strength in Delhi.
02:25Rahul Gandhi, Sonia Gandhi, Priyanka Gandhi-Vadra, Akhilesh Yadav,
02:30Mohameda Banerjee and Faruk Abdullah, India block heavyweights shoulder-to-shoulder,
02:36launching a blistering attack on the BJP and the election commission from Ramlila Meidan.
02:41Narendra Modi, Amit Shah Ji, you understand this.
02:46Gyanesh Kumar کے بعد,
02:49ہم آپ کے سامنے کھڑے ہونے جا رہے ہیں.
02:51آپ کے خلاف, Narendra Modi کے خلاف,
02:55Amit Shah کے خلاف,
02:57Legal Kariwai ہوگی.
02:59ابھی لوگ سوا میں تھوڑی بہت بدائی کی ہے.
03:03لیکن آنے والے سمیں میں دوہجاز ستائیس میں
03:07ایسی بدائی ہوگی کہ دوبارہ بھارتی جنتہ پارٹی اور سیوگی
03:12لوگ لوٹ کر کے نہیں آ پائیں گے.
03:14ہم کا ساتھ سب کا بکار.
03:17آبھی لوگ کہتا ہے BJP کا ساتھ سب کا ستاناس.
03:22I would request you to...
03:24Before that, on Saturday,
03:25a three-hour public impeachment of the chief election commissioner.
03:41And as the India Blocks mega-rally played out on Sunday,
03:45the BJP mounted a parallel street blitz in the very same time frame,
03:49taking the political battle to the streets across multiple cities.
03:53From Amit Shah to Nitin Nabeen,
03:55Hardeep Singh Puri and Rekha Gupta,
03:58BJP heavyweights were out on the streets simultaneously,
04:02leading rallies, padhyatras and counter-protest.
04:05I would like to say to Rahul Ji,
04:08that you have to become a prime minister,
04:10then you have to become a whole life in the Mokh parliament.
04:15You have to never forget your number.
04:43Two sites, two competing narratives.
04:46One political background.
04:48And the battle now extends to the crowd count.
04:51How schools?
05:2010,000,000 to greater ہے.
05:21You are showing that these are the free kurses.
05:24This is 3-4 hours ago.
05:27People were ahead.
05:29But this is the world in the back and in the middle.
06:01All right, let's quickly bring in Renuka Choudhury, member of Rajya Sabha, leader of Congress.
06:06She's joining me live right now.
06:07Ms. Choudhury, it has indeed become a battle of optics.
06:10At one end, you have the BJP who is now lamenting that you couldn't even manage to gather in the
06:16numbers that you seem to suggest that you had, which was over 10 lakhs.
06:20Even the capacity of Ramdeela Maidan is not more than 75,000 people, ma'am.
06:26I want to tell you, these people are obviously terrified.
06:32The fact that they've had to stoop to this level, the fact that they want to go online, they want
06:37to have public programs and meetings to counter, they're terrified.
06:43Very good.
06:44I'm very happy that they've understood how real the situation on the ground is.
06:50Now, these people are sitting and counting kurses.
06:53Oh, good heavens.
06:53Don't they have any other job to do?
06:55I want to tell you, they should have walked like I did.
06:59I went to Connaught Police.
07:01I didn't go in the bus.
07:03I went with the crowds and I saw how many people were in all the traffic was jammed.
07:11There were lanes and by lanes where people were coming in.
07:14We had to use a lot of constraint to prevent people from storming onto the stage because they were all
07:20wanted to come in.
07:21So, if they can't see all that, I've always recommended that they have a Modi up in the problem.
07:27They should get their eyes tested.
07:29And if the Andhrabaks can't see, there is really not much I can do.
07:34And then they are going on constructing stories and giving out all of which are half-truths.
07:40Anyway, the more they protest, the more we know how scared they are.
07:46The fact of the matter is the rally was a runaway success.
07:50Yes, they obviously have intelligence failure if they don't know, if they're saying that there was no crowd there.
07:57I mean, it's really pathetic.
07:59Can't they think of a more intelligent way?
08:04Ms. Chaudhary, if you can hear me, I think we seem to have lost her.
08:08Can we connect back to…
08:09All right, we're going to try and connect back to Ms. Renuka Chaudhary the minute we have her.
08:14So, understandably, it is a war of optics.
08:17And at one end, you have the BJP and somewhere down the line, you know, there is a fixation of
08:23sorts where it comes down to the numbers that were present.
08:27Is it really about the numbers per se?
08:29Well, that needs to be debated.
08:31If we can connect again to Renuka Chaudhary for a quick comment.
08:35All right, we don't seem to have Renuka Chaudhary, but we will cut across to Sushmita Deb as well, Rajya
08:43Sabha MP now with the Bharatiya Janata Party in just about a minute.
08:47But viewers, I just want to put in perspective on what we witnessed in the last 24 hours, because now
08:54it's a very fierce war of narratives on either sides of the divide, be it at one end, the India
09:03alliance that came together in strength and in numbers.
09:07Now, they may be claims or counterclaims, but for many journalists who were on ground, at least Ramlila Maidan, and
09:12Ramlila Maidan has a capacity to the brim of about 75,000.
09:16And many journalists who were there on ground would vouch that at least Ramlila Maidan leave alone.
09:21Certain islands where, you know, there was sludge because of the rains earlier was pretty much packed to capacity and
09:27there were people outside.
09:28But once again, the capacity of Ramlila Maidan is about 75,000.
09:33One is just the fixation on numbers.
09:36On the other hand, it is also now, understandably, that the BJP and the government doesn't want to quite give
09:44the India alliance an upper hand where it comes down to building the political narrative.
09:50So, therefore, what we have really seen over the last 24 hours is optics versus optics, narrative versus narrative, even
09:58in the time frame of 12 to 5 p.m. yesterday, which was the given time for the rally or
10:05the time that was allowed by the Delhi police for the India alliance.
10:11Even during that, you had the home minister, you had the BJP party president, you had Mr. Hardeep Puri, you
10:18had even the Delhi chief minister attend various protests, rallies, sabhas, padhyatras in various parts of the country.
10:28I want to get a quick comment in from Renuka Chaudhary before we let her be.
10:32Renuka Chaudhary, you know, moving away from being fixated on numbers, I want to ask you one quick question.
10:37And that question stems from the fact that what now?
10:42Because now is Diwali.
10:44After that, you are going into political season where you have, you know, elections in states like Uttar Pradesh, Punjab.
10:51How do you carry forth what you have started in terms of a concerted attempt to try and corner the
10:56government on Vochori and the CEC, the chief election commission, Gyanesh Kumar?
11:11How do you carry on?
11:31The people in this whole thing has to be held accountable.
11:35There are no two things about it.
11:37How are we going to carry this forward?
11:39You will see every step that we'll take forward.
11:42I'm not going to tell you what we're going to do just now because we know how that pans out.
11:47And a government that is so constrained and everyone, the chief minister, Mr. Puri, everyone's running around trying to prop
11:55up this collapse that is happening and trying to convince people that we were a failure.
12:01I'm glad.
12:02I'm glad.
12:02The more they try to do this, the more they stand exposed.
12:08So, I suggest that they save their energies.
12:11We are in a good place.
12:13We are going forward.
12:14We are fighting for principles.
12:16We are talking about the ideological hook that has hurt the citizen.
12:20And we are going to go forward.
12:22There's no way back now.
12:24The only way is to go forward.
12:27But, Ms. Chowdhury, going forward here means what?
12:30Because you have elections to fight.
12:33You know, you have elections to fight.
12:35Understandably, some could argue that you've energized your cadre.
12:37Your cadre came out in numbers which has not been seen before, at least in the last 10 years, where
12:42the India Alliance is concerned.
12:44But, if you remain fixated on Vot Chowdhury and the CEC, what about the upcoming elections?
12:49Remember what happened in the state of Bihar, where a parallel yatra between Tejasvi Yadav and Rahul Gandhi was carried
12:56out in Vot Chowdhury.
12:57And we all know how the results panned out in the state of Bihar.
13:04We all also learn from history, don't we?
13:08So, it doesn't matter.
13:11The fact that this fire has ignited and it is spreading all over the country is what is burying the
13:18BJP.
13:19How will this pan out?
13:20It doesn't mean the same cadre is sitting at the polling booths.
13:24Guys, we have enough rank and file collectively as INDIA bloc and the Congress together.
13:31We are still the majority.
13:33Preeti, this government hasn't swept elections all over the country.
13:38They also know that.
13:40So, the percentage is very, very minimal.
13:43Tell them to worry about their rank and file.
13:46They know it.
13:47There's so many implosions happening.
13:48But, Mr. Chowdhury, this is a question I need to ask you.
13:51Home Minister of this country, Preeti.
13:54Yeah.
13:55No, no, this is a question.
13:56What?
13:56You may complete, but the question that I wanted to ask you is that how do you convert?
14:01What is the politics of protest to electoral politics?
14:05You will need to, somewhere down the line, take it to Uttar Pradesh.
14:08And if you do so, do you lose the momentum right now?
14:16You will see when things are put into place and we take action.
14:21You will watch it.
14:22We are not going to reveal our plans to them.
14:25They not only have an intelligence failure, they have a failure with intelligentsia also.
14:31So, these people can keep saying what they want.
14:34The fact that the whole party, the whole media, the whole nation is seized with the fact that there was
14:41a protest here and it turned out so many.
14:44People asked us this question even before the rally, saying that how will you manage it?
14:48Do you think so many people will come?
14:51Misinformation was spread everywhere.
14:54Police were standing around cleaning their teeth instead of pushing the traffic in Connaught Place.
14:59I was there.
15:01I was on the spot, on the ground.
15:03And I have been enough years on the ground for me to know what the pulse of the people is.
15:08I wish you had walked with me.
15:10I wish, maybe I can show you some camera footage where the common man, he is not a congress worker.
15:16The common man, the man who does the framing of your photographs, a tailor by the corner, a chapel repaired
15:23wala, all of them have united.
15:27Okay.
15:28It's a cause.
15:28But Ms. Chowdhury, one final question before we let you go.
15:30It's not just about electoral politics, that's mathematics.
15:33No, no, I just want to ask you one final question before we let you go.
15:36Because what happened yesterday seemed to be a united front by the opposition.
15:41And after a very long time, you could see that it was cohesive, it was united, and there was a
15:47flow to it.
15:48But having said that, just a day before, not all India Alliance members were on board where the mock parliament
15:54had taken place.
15:55Many of your India Alliance members were not in favor of the mock parliament.
15:59And you know that better than I, ma'am.
16:01So there is disenchantment, maybe not at the fore yesterday, but it's all not as good as it looks like.
16:11Look, if that's the belief system, I know for a fact that all parties were there, representatives, the senior lot
16:19didn't come in because they were reserving their presence for today.
16:22They couldn't take time off two days in a row.
16:25So that's fine.
16:26The fact is that the country sat, the world saw, and people have seen.
16:31And if that happened yesterday, then this happened today.
16:34So how do you know what's going to happen tomorrow?
16:38Today, the common man believes that, yes, this is the way forward.
16:43We have been cheated.
16:44We are unemployed.
16:45Our women are not safe.
16:47We are ill-treated.
16:48Our incomes have gone.
16:49The rupee has slid.
16:50The EMIs have become more expensive.
16:52There's no home.
16:53There's no survival.
16:55And that teaches us lessons.
16:58Nothing else is more valid than a common man's cause and fight for life.
17:04All right, ma'am.
17:05We'll know how that pans out.
17:06You say you don't want to really put your cards down on the table.
17:09But we'll see how the protest of politics moves forward and also electorally.
17:15You have elections coming up.
17:16You just see how this pans out.
17:17You just see, watch this space.
17:19Well, thank you, Ms. Choudhury, for joining us.
17:21I'm joined right now by Ms. Sushmita Deeb, Raju Sabha MP from the Bharatiya Janata Party.
17:26Ms. Deeb, I just have one question to ask you.
17:28Why is the BJP so fixated on the numbers?
17:31Let's say even if Ramdeela Maidan was full, because Ramdeela Maidan has become the fulcrum
17:35of this conversation.
17:36It still doesn't house more than 75,000 people.
17:38So why is there such an obsession to prove that Ramdeela Maidan wasn't full?
17:43It doesn't matter.
17:45No, it matters because it's one of the many bluffs of the Indian National Congress that
17:52had to be called out.
17:53The biggest bluff of the grand old party is that 13.36 crore voters have been deleted,
18:00whereas even a nursery school student of politics should know that this is a draft role which
18:10is not yet finalized.
18:12And in this 13.36 crore, you know very well, Preeti, because every debate it has been said
18:17how many are dead and how many have shifted.
18:19So coming back to your Ramdeela ground question, you see, when you have a national party and
18:26a meeting, a public meeting, which has been called on a serious issue like SIR by none
18:32less than the leader of the opposition of the Lok Sabha, and you put out a bluff like 10
18:38lakh people are coming, I think Parthia Janta party as a responsible party had to tell the
18:46people that that itself was the biggest lie.
18:51So politics is about public perception, you see.
18:56And today, Preeti, you are a journalist, you are in Ramdeela ground, I was seeing on TV,
19:02you and I still understand what is 20,000 and what is 1 lakh and what is 10 lakhs.
19:06But common people don't understand.
19:08So these bluffs have to be called.
19:11Okay, you know, fair point.
19:12Okay, so I was there and I'll tell you, yeah, you know, Ramdeela Maidan, you know,
19:15Ms. Deeb, as per me, was packed, but Ramdeela Maidan cannot house more than 70 to 75,000
19:21people.
19:22But, you know, it's limited to that.
19:24But having said that, let me ask you the other question, because if you're talking about
19:26bluffs, there's a constant refrain coming from the BJP on how the Congress is trying
19:31to, you know, it's ghospatia that they're trying to protect with the SIR.
19:37That number of ghospatia has never been given.
19:39Yesterday, Nitin Nabeenji in Rohtak said three crore ghospatias.
19:43Now, where are those numbers?
19:45Because when it comes to RTIs, when it comes to Parliament, those numbers are never quite
19:49given.
19:49But the refrain and the rhetoric is constant with ghospatias.
19:55See, Piti, I'll tell you something.
19:58That who are the people who are entitled to be in the voters list of a country?
20:03And who are the people who can vote?
20:06We all agree that you have to be a citizen of India.
20:09I think there's no disagreement on that.
20:11Even the Congress will agree that non-citizens can't vote.
20:15Now, the question is that why is the BJP constantly talking about cleaning the voters list?
20:22Because it is provided in the Constitution.
20:25Now, you are someone who's been debating this topic for very long now.
20:31And you know the breakup of the 13.36.
20:34Some have moved.
20:36Some have died.
20:38Some are untraceable.
20:40So, therefore, there are crores of names in the voters list.
20:45And people have been voting against that name.
20:51The same thing what Mr. Gandhi was saying, that these are fake voters.
20:55So, where are they?
20:57How can crores of people go untraceable?
21:00There are only two explanations for it.
21:03One is what?
21:04That they were fake voters.
21:06Or two, they are people who cannot show the documents to say that they are citizens of
21:11India or no.
21:12Now, please understand, Nitin Navin Ji is a politician, is a national president.
21:17Amit Shah Ji is the home minister.
21:19So, they believe that all these people who are untraceable could well be non-citizens.
21:25Now, Election Commission of India cannot decide on a question of fact and look at documents
21:31and declare somebody a foreigner, only a foreigners' tribunal can.
21:34But what is untraceable voters?
21:36I don't know why this has not been said on any channel before.
21:41That I, because I come from Assam, I know the process, I know what is foreigners and how
21:46they come onto the voters' list.
21:48How can people countraceable?
21:51Okay.
21:52One quick question, Ms. Deeb, before I let you go.
21:54And that question stems from the fact, I think this would be the first, that we've seen an
21:58incumbent government taken to the, you know, takes to the streets in protest.
22:03Usually, it's the opposition that protests.
22:05And the last couple of days, we've seen your party holding multiple rallies, multiple padhyatras
22:10in protest.
22:12How does that really work?
22:13Is it that the Congress is setting the narrative and you're catching up?
22:16That's the question I want to ask you.
22:19No, it's a multi-pronged strategy.
22:23One is that it is very simple.
22:26We have 30,000 to 35,000 people gathering in one district of Assam or one city of Bengal
22:33or one city of Andhra.
22:35Whereas the entire Indian alliance put together with all the regional satraps and everybody
22:42has built Ramvila ground.
22:43So, it is once again to show, it is a show of strength.
22:50It is a show of strength because this is not just Rahul Gandhi being launched again.
22:56It is India alliance being launched yet again.
22:59Let's not forget they've already fought an election against India, the last election.
23:03So, I think BJP as a party, they do not bat on the back foot.
23:11That's not their DNA.
23:13So, Amant Mishra Sharma or Mr. Amit Shah or Mr. Nitin Naveen will show their strength and
23:19on the ground.
23:21All right.
23:22Okay.
23:23Well, thank you, Ms. Deeb, for joining us this evening and putting your points forward.
23:27I appreciate it.
23:28Let's take all these questions to our political analyst this evening.
23:31Joining me, Tavleen Singh, senior journalist, columnist, author.
23:35I also have Ashutosh, political analyst.
23:37We'll soon be joined by Rajat Sethi, political analyst.
23:40I just off the bat want to get your opinion, the both of you.
23:43Who would want to go first?
23:45All right.
23:46Okay.
23:46Let's go with the lady first, Ms. Singh.
23:48What do you make of the rally yesterday, the India alliance rally?
23:54I was very impressed with the size of it.
23:58It doesn't matter whether it was 50 lakhs or 60 lakhs or 10 lakhs.
24:03The ground was full as far as I could see.
24:05I wasn't there, but I've covered many rallies in Ramali Ramadan.
24:09And the ground was full.
24:11So what I find a little bit embarrassing from the point of view of the BJP is that they should
24:17go on nitpicking about how many people were there.
24:20So, you know, I mean, as far as I'm concerned, I thought that the rally was, you know, not
24:26just a show of strength, but a show of considerable strength.
24:30You've always, because, you know, you had a divergent point of view on the mock parliament
24:34where you thought that was churlish, childish, and possibly the India alliance should not
24:39have gone that route.
24:40Yeah, I am very clear about this.
24:43I've said it at least three times today.
24:46I believe that when you have a strong democracy, it is a democracy that is based on its institutions.
24:54And so it's, you know, as I said before, we're not in Pakistan or Bangladesh where you have
25:00a very dwarf democracy, where the institutions are all compromised, where military rulers have
25:07controlled them.
25:07This has not happened in India except once during the emergency.
25:12So I think that when you make a mockery of a serious issue by having a mock impeachment of
25:19your chief election commissioner, you're making a mockery of India across the world.
25:23And, you know, I personally am very uncomfortable with that.
25:28All right.
25:29Ashutosh, to bring you in, we had you yesterday as well, but like you've had like 24 hours to
25:33reflect on numbers or the lack of numbers, the show of strength or what was going on behind
25:39the scene.
25:40What's your take of yesterday?
25:41See, I'll go by the BJP's estimate that there was hardly anybody in the Ranmila Maidan.
25:47And I accept the fact.
25:50So if somebody wants to live in some delusional world, what can you do?
25:54You can't do nothing.
25:56If there was hardly anybody in the Ranmila Maidan, there was no crowd at all.
25:59Then why Amit Shah is doing padhyatra in a different part of the country?
26:04Why?
26:05Why Nitin Naveen is doing that?
26:06Why the BJP is so hopelessly desperate today?
26:09That the issue is the BJP and entire leadership is hugely, hugely rattled.
26:15And it shows.
26:17Because not only Ranmila Maidan, but within three weeks, the Congress has galvanized its
26:22cadre.
26:23And you remember on 12th October, when from Barakamba to Supreme Court, there was a huge
26:29rally, huge, huge rally.
26:31In three months, in three weeks time, if a political party does that, that means that
26:36the ground is really fertile, people are unhappy, and there is a great restlessness.
26:44Unfortunately, BJP has to explain why they are hitting the street.
26:47Is it because of ghouspaitiyas?
26:49If there are ghouspaitiyas, then obviously BJP government has to be blamed.
26:54Is it because their national security is a threat?
26:57Then you are in the government for the last 12 years and still national security is a threat.
27:01If there are Hindus in danger, then Hindus in 2014 were in danger or before they were in danger?
27:08See, these are ridiculous.
27:11I think BJP has learned a few lessons in how to be ridiculed.
27:15How to ridicule yourself.
27:16Instead of doing that, they should take some course correction, they should do some soul
27:22searching, they should find out reasons why Congress has been, why we are witnessing a
27:29resurgent Congress, an emergence of Rahul Gandhi as a pole leader in entire opposition and
27:35the why BJP is so, so defensive today.
27:38They are failing to weave any narrative.
27:41That's unfortunate part of it.
27:43And if you think there is an anarchy on the road, you are in the government, you control
27:48that.
27:48If somebody is creating a national security problem, put him in jail.
27:52You are not able to do that.
27:54You are just trying to create a false narrative across the world.
27:57Who is going to believe this?
27:58All right.
27:59Okay.
27:59Allow me to bring in Ranjit.
28:00Ranjit, you know, once we are, like I said, everyone is fixated on the numbers on Ram
28:04Leela Maidan.
28:04I just want to put out there, even if the Ram Leela Maidan was full, it's still 70,000 capacity.
28:09And that is, if there are, if it is filled to capacity, then at best it's 70,000.
28:14So away from the numbers, Rajat, your biggest takeaways from yesterday, because we've had
28:20not just the opposition rally, but we've had in real time between 12 to 5, which was the
28:26given time for the opposition.
28:27We've had the Home Minister, we've had the BJP Party President, we've had the Delhi Chief
28:31Minister, we have the newly, once again, Rajya Sabha MP, Mr. Puri, and other BJP leaders
28:37who every half hour were either in a press conference or issuing statements.
28:43Well, Piti Ji, good evening to you and to the fellow panellists.
28:46It seems like it is not Diwali.
28:48It seems like this is a festival of protests happening around the country.
28:51Everybody is very angry, and everybody wants to hit the streets and try and puncture each
28:57other's narratives.
28:59The Congress Party, for a very long time, has been waiting for this desperate moment where
29:04they could finally anoint Rahul Gandhi as the leader of the India Alliance.
29:09And I don't remember, right from, I think, in 2023, when the India Alliance was created,
29:14they have ever had, you know, a common cause on which they could leave aside their zero-sum
29:19problems they had with the Congress Party and come onto the same platform.
29:25It is also partly because a lot of the leaders of India Alliance have lost their elections and
29:29have lost their bases completely.
29:31So I don't expect Mamata Banerjee having the institute or the organizational wherewithal
29:37to do a similar rally now in Kolkata.
29:39Similarly with Stalin, similarly with Arvind Kejriwal.
29:43So a lot of the leaders and Tejas Piyadav, a lot of these leaders have been cut to size
29:49because of the electoral losses.
29:51So I believe that Rahul Gandhi has now become that de facto face of India Alliance, which
29:56the Congress Party was trying so hard and it was beating resistance from leaders like
30:01Nitish Kumar first and then from Mamata Banerjee and then from a bunch of other leaders.
30:06Now he remains that de facto.
30:08Will he be the de jure leader of India Alliance?
30:10That needs to be seen because, you know, narrative, narrative, all of this drama is good.
30:14When the rubber hits the road, it is when you start asking for a pound of flesh from
30:19your Alliance partners.
30:20That is where the things get much more complicated.
30:23If you go with a demand of 170 seats from Samajwadi Party in Uttar Pradesh, what do you expect
30:30Samajwadi Party is going to do?
30:31If an Imran Masood, I think that's what Imran, I forget his last name.
30:36If he is unleashed to daily bicker and comment against the Samajwadi Party leaders, there
30:42will be pushback.
30:43So that is the more complex task.
30:45Narrative is one thing.
30:47Organization building is altogether different thing.
30:50You can still mobilize people because all you have to do is to speak about certain lies
30:53and then carry on a narrative.
30:55But how do you organize?
30:56That's the tough job.
30:58And I still believe that Congress Party does not want to do the hard work of organizational
31:03making.
31:04You know, having 10,000 people, you can effectively do Chakka Jam in Delhi, right?
31:07But that does not mean that you will, even when the elections of Delhi, even a simple,
31:11simple panchayat election of a neighboring state or a municipal election of Delhi, you
31:17won't do that.
31:18That will not happen because still you do not want to do the hard work of organization building.
31:23So live with this.
31:24And I believe BJP is very happy that this election issue can drag on for next three,
31:29four months.
31:29They are very comfortable in doing this counter-protest, protest, all of this is going to carry on.
31:34They are very happy through this because they can then rely on the organizational might
31:38and still win elections and let this Delhi, South Delhi-centric or Central Delhi-centric
31:44drama carry on.
31:46All right.
31:46Okay.
31:46But not entirely South Delhi, but okay.
31:48So while organization is big, there's also optics, there's also a play of chemistry.
31:53Some would think that this was also the launch of the Uttar Pradesh campaign for the
31:59India Alliance.
32:00I want to come back to Tavleen Singh on it.
32:02Tavleen Singh, you know, what's also interesting is with what is happening on ground, because
32:06and it's amusing as well, because you have a government that has hit the streets in protest.
32:11Usually you only see that coming in from the opposition.
32:14Do you think that this is foresight?
32:16This is the BJP, you know, that's answering point by point to the opposition?
32:21Or is it the opposition this time building narrative and BJP catching up?
32:28For the first time, I said that earlier on another show, for the first time, I see the
32:34Modi government on the back foot.
32:37And I see these rallies as desperation.
32:41And I think most people would see them as desperation, because the tone of the speeches
32:48shows that there's a kind of menace in the way that, you know, that they're talking about
32:54Rahul Gandhi.
32:55I mean, they've made Rahul Gandhi a bigger leader in the past two or three days than anyone
33:00could have done, because they've given him complete, they've just homed in on him to
33:04attack him.
33:05I'm no big fan of the dynasty, as you know, or of the Congress Party.
33:09But certainly, I would say to you that this is the first time that I see real pushback
33:16against the government.
33:16But, you know, Uttar Pradesh is when we'll find out.
33:20Mm-hmm.
33:22Well, you're right there, Uttar Pradesh is when we find out.
33:25And I just want to dip into the latest political battle from the macro picture of the protests
33:29taking place in the national capital.
33:31The micro picture, which is not quite really micro when you look at it on a larger scale.
33:35Let's listen in to these quick reactions on Uttar Pradesh, because the battle will now
33:39be Uttar Pradesh.
33:40Listen in, and we are back with our panelists.
33:46The young people have been forced to die.
33:49The people have died here, and the most important, the most important, the most important,
33:54the most important, the government of the government party, the government of the government.
34:00And yet, if you see Zaha, you have a job, it's been a lot to do.
34:16And if there was an opportunity exactly, you and there are people in Mccar sedan,
34:24they will always be able to editor the Song單.
34:26And the U.P. people, if they're good at it, they're better than the people.
34:37And now, there's a lot of people in the world.
34:42But in the meantime, in the 2027, there will be such a great people that the people of the people
34:49and the people will not be able to lose.
34:54All right, Ashutosh, now the politics of protest for the India Alliance especially need to go into the politics of
34:59electoral win.
35:01Now, I know you're a votary that it doesn't matter whether you win an election.
35:05But as an opposition, if you're trying to build together a cohesive unit, you are moving towards electoral wins.
35:11And Uttar Pradesh is not really far off. It's less than three months counting.
35:18See, Preeti, I think before we go to the U.P. election, the issue has to be settled whether the
35:23opposition would like to contest election if Mr. Gyanish Kumar is at the helm of the affair.
35:28But they've said they're contesting, Ashutosh.
35:31No, no. Let me answer this.
35:34Sure, sorry.
35:34If opposition is saying that Mr. Gyanish Kumar is a cheat and he should go to jail and still opposition
35:43decides to contest election, then is it not that opposition is trying to reverse its own logic?
35:52Then who is going to believe them? That for the last one year and so you are saying that the
35:57election commission is a cheat, election commission is working for the benefit of the opposition, benefit of the government, and
36:02we're still contesting elections.
36:04These two logics can't go together. So I think before U.P. elections, either the opposition decides to contest or
36:12not contest, they have to take a call on this.
36:14And the government has to take a call with Mr. Gyanish Kumar continue as a, as a, as a chief
36:19election commissioner or not.
36:21These, the election, the opposition contesting election and Gyanish Kumar helping at the, and being at the helm of affair,
36:26these two cannot go together.
36:28That's, that's the bottom line.
36:29So you're saying, Ashutosh, we've reached the crucible now, at least where the opposition is concerned.
36:33Absolutely.
36:33That they don't find themselves in that moral space to contest an election yet criticize the system.
36:41Preeti, I heard Rahul Gandhi very clearly.
36:44Mr. Gyanish Kumar, you will go to jail.
36:46That means Gyanish Kumar has committed a crime.
36:51And crime is what?
36:52Manipulation of elections.
36:54For whom?
36:54For the government and the BJP.
36:57And if you're still contesting election, when Gyanish Kumar is at the helm of the affair, that means opposition has
37:02been lying all through.
37:04Okay.
37:05Well, that's an interesting point.
37:06So the credibility of the opposition is at stake today.
37:07And the government also has to think about that whether the government, whether the government,
37:11when the BJP can afford to go for election, when opposition is not there.
37:15So I think this issue has to be, has to be settled first.
37:18So you're saying you've, one has reached that point.
37:20Because at least the Congress is very clear that they will have to defeat the BJP or at least the
37:25think tank is such through the electoral process.
37:28But you are saying that there is an electoral process if you're questioning the basic premise of it.
37:32Okay.
37:33Rajat, do you want to weigh in on this?
37:34The BJP situation is extremely fluid.
37:36And anything can happen in the next few weeks.
37:40All right.
37:40Okay.
37:42Rajat, do you want to weigh in on this?
37:43How do we define anything can happen?
37:45If anything is pointing to something like our neighboring countries, and that is a wrong slippery slope, because then, you
37:53know, there'll be a whole counterweight of people hitting the streets and ensuring that none of that happens to our
37:58country.
37:59But I agree with Ashutosh to the extent either the Congress party genuinely feels that it does not intellectually have
38:07basically aligned themselves.
38:09See, one thing is narrative and talking to the people.
38:11All right.
38:12But there's altogether different thing wherein you yourself are convinced with that logic, wherein you genuinely feel just like a
38:18BNP, Bangladesh Nationalist Party.
38:20You just stay out of election just to say and make a proof of point that, yes, this is a
38:24farcical exercise.
38:24I do not trust in that.
38:26I said this even in the previous election.
38:28This still carries on.
38:29But the problem is not this.
38:30The problem is that their alliance partner in UP, their principal alliance partner, Akhile Shahdav, does not agree with this.
38:36He never, ever is going to boycott the elections because he can smell victory.
38:41He can still feel that till the point there is something which is not tangibly proven in a neutral court,
38:47in a neutral arbiter, not of anybody's choice.
38:50Till that time, neither the BJP is going to yield to the point wherein a motion is admitted into the
38:56parliament, nor should the constitutional head of a body like the election commission should resign just like that.
39:02So this is not going to go away.
39:04So Congress Party does this primarily because they think, they honestly feel that this is one issue that they have
39:10got wherein they can hit the streets, which is a flawed understanding of our polity.
39:14There are many, many important issues which Congress does not give that much importance, primarily because they don't have the
39:19organizational strength.
39:20So they have latched on to this. They have anointed Mr. Rahul Gandhi. I think the bigger objective and takeaway
39:25for Congress Party is that let us somehow anoint him as the head of the India Alliance.
39:30That seems to be settled. But this bycotting and all, you need to be, you need to have some agreement
39:35within. You can't fool yourself when you're watching yourself in the mirror.
39:38I have a point there. And Ashutra, she does have a point there. And I want to bring in Tavleen
39:40Singh on it because it's an interesting, you know, thought, Tavleen Singh, because you're fighting against the electoral system in
39:47this country.
39:47You're fighting against the chief election commissioner. And yet you're preparing for elections in two months' time. It doesn't quite
39:53add up.
39:55Well, I actually wrote about that in my column yesterday. I said that if they have such little faith in
40:00the election commission, they should boycott the elections.
40:03But you see, what I'm very worried about as somebody who really cares about democracy is that I don't want
40:10the whole world to think that the institutions of democracy in India are so defective.
40:16And what the campaign of the past few months has done between the cockroaches and the Congress Party and, you
40:25know, just the people that they've managed to get onto the streets is create the impression that the institutions are
40:32not working, that there's a sort of semi-dictatorship.
40:35And there isn't. Look at us. We're sitting here. I mean, you know, and expressing our opinion. I express my
40:43opinion every week. And so far, I haven't really found that we have become a dictatorship yet.
40:48But I think that all of these guys in the opposition must actually sit down and think about whether it's
40:57not their fault that parliament isn't functioning, that the election commission is in trouble.
41:03And, you know, the election commissioners themselves need to worry about how they have managed to create so much disrespect.
41:12OK, fair point. Ashutosh, I have 20 seconds. I know you want to interject. I'll give 20 seconds to Rajat
41:18after that. Go ahead, Ashutosh.
41:19No, no, no. I'm saying if tomorrow, if opposition decides to boycott election, that's their democratic right to exercise their
41:27protest.
41:27And it is their right to delegitimize the government. Why they should be giving legitimacy to the government?
41:33But they're not on the same page, Ashutosh. And it is a point that Rajat raised. The Samajwadi party will
41:37never boycott elections.
41:39No, no, no. Priti, let me put my argument. I'm not a spokesperson of the Samajwadi party or the Congress
41:45party. What they are going to do is something else.
41:46See, the issue is, issue is very, very simple. If you have a serious doubts about electoral process, how can
41:53you, how can you participate in that process?
41:56The issue number one. It's very, very clear in my mind. Second issue is that even if the opposition decides
42:01to boycott election, it is their democratic right. It's not disrespecting.
42:06They are trying to bring back the respect and legitimacy of the whole people.
42:11You misunderstood me. I'm saying that the institutions are being disrespected.
42:17Okay.
42:17I think if I was them, I would boycott.
42:20All right. 20 seconds, Rajat. And I need to go into a break then.
42:23Well, I think this entire election thing has now come to a logical end. I don't think momentum can be
42:30built up from here.
42:31We are back to UP elections. We are back to the other four state elections, which are, again, very important.
42:35And I believe the T equal to zero for initiating the campaigns has officially started.
42:41And I believe from here onwards, it's all going to be a heavy, intense political season.
42:46All right. We will know, you know, in due time.
42:48But I thank all three panelists for taking the time out and joining us this evening.
42:52Thank you so much.