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Rachel Comey's cult-like womenswear brand has unwittingly become the new face of real, unpretentious American fashion; one that's personal, artistic, and most importantly, self-made.
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00:01Welcome to Unstyled. I'm your host, Christine Barbrick, co-founder and global editor-in-chief
00:06of Refinery29. Each week, I invite a notable person to come in and talk with us as we explore
00:12the funny, inspiring, sometimes heartbreaking tales of life, work, and love, as told through
00:19the things that we wear. Rachel Comey is one of those clandestine rockumentary-style origin stories.
00:32She wasn't even a formal designer yet, spending her free time costuming scrappy local bands here
00:37in New York City, when the thin white duke himself, yes, David Bowie, saw a handmade shirt of hers and
00:43wanted one for himself. She was just a freelance production assistant and charged him what she
00:48then perceived as, quote, a lot of money. It was $200. That was 15 years ago, and today it's not
00:55just the late, beautiful Bowie who became such a fan of her quietly iconic line. Parker Posey,
01:00Cindy Sherman, Maggie Gyllenhaal, they're all part of Comey's eclectic crew. And it was Vogue magazine
01:06who recently referred to her now-collectible Legion jeans among the most tenor-setting denim styles
01:11in recent memory. Her 10 million-plus annual business no longer has menswear on offer, but it's the roots
01:17of these early, sedately, stylish pieces that have given her cult-like womenswear brand a rare,
01:22enduring fascination. She's never taken seed money and funded her first few years on interest-free
01:27credit cards. She's never taken out an ad, and over the course of almost two decades, she's managed,
01:33at one point or another, nearly every aspect of her business. In a time when brands are cutting back
01:38or shutting down with regularity, Rachel Comey, now with two flagship stores on both coasts,
01:43has unwittingly become the face of a new brand of American fashion, one that's personal, reverent,
01:49artistic, and most importantly for her, self-made.
01:57Hi, Rachel. Good morning.
01:59Hi.
01:59Thank you so much for being a guest on UnStyled today.
02:02I'm excited.
02:04I wanted to start with an image that I have in my head that whenever I think about you,
02:09for some reason, this image comes up often. You were showing your collection at a gymnasium at a
02:14public school on the Lower East Side. Do you remember that?
02:17Yeah, I love that gym.
02:18Even in those early days, I'd never been to a show that was in a space like that before,
02:23that was in kind of an unexpected location that gave you an experience. It wasn't just about the
02:29clothes. And I would love to have you tell us about that experience and when you were planning that show.
02:34Thank you so much, first of all. That show, yeah, was in the gymnasium. We had that surf rock band
02:42from Vermont play. Early on, I didn't know anything about anything in fashion, to be honest. And so
02:50I was just trying to do things however seemed right to me, just kind of following my gut instincts and
02:57finding weird spaces and finding models that intrigue me in a different way beyond just being beautiful.
03:03all of those elements together obviously create a more interesting experience. So I think I was just
03:10following whatever track I could find at the time. Did you think it was like a form of performance art?
03:17I mean, I think that there's an exchange happening in any kind of show fashion or otherwise. So I think
03:24that the audience is just as important as the, you know, designer or the model or the makeup artist.
03:33It's like an exchange. And I think that's so much about what clothing design and style is about.
03:39Communication. And I think that the clearer and more human I can make the show experiences,
03:47the better, really. Because I wanted the whole evening of our shows of the recent ones at the
03:53dinners to be about that total experience. So I wanted the tables to be like really interesting
03:58dialogue and people that maybe didn't know each other cross reference each other in different ways,
04:04bring them together and then have the performance, have the clothes, have the food, have the, you know.
04:09Speaking of performance, the way that you collaborate with other kinds of artists and other kinds of
04:13mediums, your guest role on, on high maintenance. And you've worked with everyone from Tracee Ellis
04:20Ross to Justin Vivian Bond, Heather Lawless. Oh yeah. And I always think of those moments,
04:28the way that you create more of an experience. So it's not just about the clothes, but it gives the
04:31clothes real context. Tell me about those collaborations and like why you like to do that. Why you like to
04:36bring other people into those performances. Usually I just find their work interesting and
04:44I'm trying to have an interesting career and, or just life in general. And if I, you know,
04:50like with high maintenance, I didn't know them at all. I just, one of the women that worked for me,
04:56young woman, she introduced me to the show and I just thought it was so great. And I was so
05:03relieved
05:03to see something about New York that felt so relevant and real. And now, so I just wrote them and
05:09I said,
05:09I love your work. Like, it's just great. Good job. Keep going. You know, they wrote back like,
05:15oh my God, you know, we're huge fans of yours and you know, let's meet. And so we met and
05:19we were
05:19like, oh, Hey, wow. Cool. You guys are awesome. Good to know you. And, um, a few months later they
05:25wrote, they wrote me and we're like, you know, like we had an idea that we wanted to run it
05:30by you.
05:30And then they just sent me the script for that episode that they did, you know, called Rachel.
05:34So, and he wears your clothes too. Remember when he dresses up in all of your clothes?
05:38Yeah. I mean in the show. Yeah. Yeah. Dan Stevens. Yeah. Well in real life,
05:41he wears all your clothes too. In real life he does too. I know he looks great in them. He's
05:45like
05:45sample size. So you've been in business now for, is it 15 years? Yeah. 15 this year.
05:53What do you think the hardest part has been in not just growing your business, but really
05:59staying true to, to what you've been wanting to accomplish as an entrepreneur and as a designer,
06:06what do you think the toughest things have been? There's been so many hurdles. Took me six years
06:10to get out of debt. I was just, you know, when I started, I'd gotten fired from my job for
06:16doing
06:16this on the side, but that was kind of a blessing disguise. Cause I was always like a really hard
06:21worker. You know, someone says like, clean the toilet. I'd be like, okay, here we go. So,
06:26so it was kind of good because then I, I got on unemployment. I was like, I just have to
06:30go for
06:31it. I'm just gonna, I think I'm going to have a show. You know, I didn't even know what I
06:34was
06:34doing. And then 9-11 happened and they extended unemployment. So I had eight months of unemployment
06:41and then I started moving stuff from one credit card to another credit card, to another credit
06:46card, no credit card. And then free. No investment. No, no. All on your own. Yeah. And then freelancing on
06:52the side at like the gap where they would call me in and I got, I remember that they paid
06:56me $75 an
06:57hour. And my job was to make like color copies and like mood boards and stuff. It was so insanely
07:03easy for, I thought I was getting paid like so much money. I couldn't believe it. And I would on
07:08the
07:08side, you know, like at the photocopy machine, get on the phone with my intern and be like, pick up
07:12the
07:12fabric and bring it over there. And I did that for like two years, probably on and off, you know,
07:18different kinds of costume jobs and whatever. And then after six years, like crawled out of debt
07:24and hired my first employee. What's her name? Let's give her a shout out. Michelle, Michelle Garrett
07:29and Allison Hill. Those are my first two employees and they still work with me, which is awesome.
07:35When you're building a business, a lot of times it takes a lot of convincing of yourself
07:40about what it is you're trying to accomplish, what it is you want to put out there into the world.
07:44Do you have any, any moments like that? I'm sure you have a lot of them, but tell us about
07:48one of
07:48them. Before I started my line, which when I started was men's shirts, button down shirts just
07:54seemed like a really nice basic place to start where I could learn and, you know, I could make
07:59design decisions based on my personal aesthetic, but simultaneously learn because it, you know,
08:05I wasn't adding like a third sleeve or anything. Before that, I was experimenting and just making
08:10things for performers and, you know, kind of costume stuff. And, uh, I had a boyfriend at
08:16the time that was musician. He was always wearing our stuff on stage, my stuff on stage. And, and
08:21then I had a friend who was a stylist, Avina Gallagher. And she came to me and said, do you
08:26have any more of those shirts that you're making for your boyfriend? You know, I'm styling Bowie
08:30for this tour that's coming up. And I was like, sure. Yeah, whatever. And I gave her, you know,
08:35some stuff to take to him. And a week later she calls me and says, Bowie loves them. He's
08:39wearing them to this and to that, to this and that. And he wants to buy them. And how
08:44much do you want to sell them for? She was like, it's David Bowie. So don't worry about
08:48it. He's got a lot of money. Just charge whatever you want. And I like the most expensive thing
08:53I could think of was $200. So she was like, okay, you know, whatever. So that was kind of
09:01the beginning. And then that made me think like, wow, you know, people want, men need
09:07shirts, you know. You know, we started introducing women's, but still all these stores that I liked
09:14and related to on a personal level, weren't buying the collection. And I thought, what
09:19is going on? You know, at some point we decided to take the sales in-house. And that's when
09:24Isha started working with me. We have another great employee and friend, Taisa Sokolski.
09:29Um, so she came and worked with me and we were like, we know that we're wearing this
09:34stuff. So there's gotta be other people out there. Like, you know, it was just a moment
09:39of saying like, wait, we have to do this ourselves for a second and trust our own instincts here
09:46and see what we can do. And so we just started from scratch and then started reaching out
09:51to stores we liked and it worked and, you know, we've just been kind of growing from there.
09:56But it's that moment of kind of listening to what the market is telling, you know, or
10:01what the industry is telling you and trying to figure out what that means for you. And
10:05then realizing, wait, I can just do what means makes sense for me. And the industry can decide
10:12later like what they think, you know, like making your own rules. Yeah. So your Legion
10:18pant, they really kind of launched this sort of frenzy. And I don't think I've ever seen
10:22in recent times, other than with maybe a few it bags, a piece that had got knocked off
10:28so much. It was like minutes after we saw it in your show. How does that make you feel?
10:34In general, I find it flattering. But I mean, I was kind of bummed because at the beginning
10:42moment, like we couldn't manufacture quick enough because I can't compete with those big
10:46box stores. So I felt like we lost out in some ways. But I mean, it was a surprise though
10:51to me because I thought that when we made that item that people would think it was crazy.
10:56That item was inspired by growing up in the 70s. And, you know, I'm kind of on the shorter
11:01side. My mom would hem up hem up my pants like four inches or something, you know, and then
11:06as you grew, you just took the hem out. And I was always kind of humiliated that I would
11:10have like a darker wash. And it was obvious that the hem was taken out and stuff. Of course,
11:15I would never hem my kids pants. Now I just like cut them and like have fun. And if
11:19they're short, they're short and they're long though. So it was kind of something I
11:22was a little bit embarrassed about growing up. So when we designed it as a thing, it
11:27was like a therapeutic release or something.
11:31I love that this episode is focused on making a business, you know, really having control
11:37of it and having it really be a true reflection of what you want it to be. How has that
11:42been
11:42having two small children? You have a daughter and a son. How has that changed you as an
11:48entrepreneur? Well, my goal always from a young age was to just have an interesting career
11:54and an interesting life. And it really isn't about, you know, winning this month or next
12:00year or like having 200 stores or, you know, it's really about the creative day to day and
12:07the environment that I work in and the people I work with and the stuff we're making. Is it
12:12exciting? Does it inspire me? Does it feel fresh? Does it feel interesting? Am I learning?
12:17All that stuff. So then when, you know, become a parent, that just kind of becomes part of
12:23the situation. So now it's just more, a little more complicated and I rely on a lot more people.
12:31You know, my partner in life is super generous and really kind of gave up his career to come
12:38and work with me and to help parent our children. So he's huge support in both the business and with
12:45the children. And that is, makes things possible. And, you know, and as people that I work with and
12:51my team, they become mothers and fathers, like that's just comes, becomes part of the equation.
12:56And we just all have to kind of support each other. And that kind of thinking helps to balance
13:01everything for me, you know, and it's not like a brand thing, you know, it's about just being
13:07a designer and enjoying the journey or whatever, you know, people.
13:11Do you think your kids have made you more creative?
13:14Yeah, sure. Why not? They, um,
13:17I'll give it to them.
13:17Yeah, yeah, sure. They help me see things differently, which is always so fun as a creative
13:23person in general. I probably, you agree, but, um, you know, making you look at something
13:28backwards or, you know, different. You're like, oh yeah, okay.
13:32You've never taken an investment in Rachel Comey.
13:35No.
13:35Has it been stressful really, you know, in the beginning bootstrapping it, but also
13:40really managing the financial health of the company?
13:44Yes. Very stressful.
13:46Yeah. Super stressful.
13:48What's your advice to people that are doing that and really navigating it for the first time?
13:52How do you get it right?
13:52Right. I mean, I have been very conservative over the years and I think that was really
14:00super smart and helpful the first 10 years. But now as we grow, I realize that we have to kind
14:06of
14:06think about how to change our financial model and not be so, so conservative, you know, because I
14:12need to take some risks and I'm learning how to do that a little bit, but it's scary for me,
14:17honestly. In the early days, I was advised so many times to just kind of keep repeating silhouettes
14:24that were selling and fabrics that were selling. And I remember thinking, oh God, it's so boring.
14:31I already did it. I want to do a new thing. And I think that that was my decision to
14:38try to keep
14:39exploring was probably not the best business decision, but the best, but definitely the best
14:45creative decision, I think. So that was like a major hurdle and not giving up. Well, I mean,
14:51one thing that I do like about fashion in particular, as opposed to art or, you know,
14:55other types of creative pursuits that take longer or in a way is the demands of the deadline
15:01in the early years really train you, you know, and you have to like get over a failure and move
15:07on
15:08if you're going to do it. The demands of the pace just keep pushing you forward because,
15:13you know, otherwise you might be like, why did I ship all those pants that don't pull up over your
15:18hips, you know, or something, you know, this is so much to learn and, and figure out if you're
15:24doing it like I did, which was like, you know, self-taught and just trying to figure it out along
15:28the way. You took, I would say that you waited, you know, a lot longer than a lot of designers
15:33do
15:34to open up a store. And, um, it's beautiful. It's such a destination. If anyone is in New York,
15:42in Soho, please stop by. It's just really such an experience and a treasure. And there's just so
15:47much in terms of sensation and stimulation. It's not just clothes. It's like there's,
15:53there's shag carpeting on a wall in a dressing room. And there's just a lot of thought and
15:59consideration and how you actually made that store. I mean, what was, what was your vision?
16:04Like what would, what did you want to accomplish with the, with your first store?
16:07With the store in New York? I didn't ever really wanted to get into retail because I was,
16:12you know, so interested in product development and clothing design and shoes and all this other
16:17stuff that takes a lot of effort and time to figure out. But after a certain amount of time,
16:24I realized that there was a big disconnect between me and the customers because I would only get it
16:30secondhand through all the wholesalers. And I was always trying to interpret and, and every store
16:36that we sell to is different. So I would be thinking about that store's customers when I was designing.
16:42So, um, when the place became available on Crosby street, it was this old rug store and I always loved
16:48the building so much. Anyways, I was a customer of the rug store and it, you know, it's a one
16:53story
16:54building that has no stores above it and nice skylights. So all this natural light pours in,
16:59which is so rare in New York. I, you know, I've lived in New York for 20 years and that's
17:04a really
17:04rare thing to walk into a space and have this natural light coming down and also kind of an old
17:09scrappy building, which appeals to me anyway, and in a neighborhood that I've lived and worked in
17:14forever. So, so I loved the building. And then when I was thinking about the space and the,
17:21the elements of my work that seemed to be still running threads, I started to think about applying
17:28those ideas to the, to the environment and the space. So that was like concrete. I love poured
17:32concrete. I love cast concrete. And then the shag carpet, like the soft and hard and those rich
17:39Bordeaux leather sofas. And anyway, so playing with all those things and then building out that space was
17:45one thing, but then finding the staff was another thing, you know, finding people that really were
17:51inspiring and could represent the brand in a way was so huge. And we have such a great team in
17:57there
17:57now. And, you know, I was trying to, I originally, I guess, thinking about one of my favorite kind of
18:02spaces in New York, what are they? And it's like going to a great restaurant or something when the
18:08lighting's right and the food's great and the conversation is good. And that's what I was trying to
18:12kind of come together with the store. Like, how are you going to be there and be like, God,
18:16that was a great New York experience. And I think that's kind of, I take a lot of pride in
18:20our city
18:21in a way too. So I feel like it's important to have establishments that contribute and are meaningful
18:29or something, you know, so maybe lofty goals, but you just opened your second flagship store in Los
18:35Angeles. I'm going out to LA next week. I'm so excited. I can't wait to see it for the first
18:39time.
18:40Are you inspired by Los Angeles?
18:42Well, a couple of things. One of the, my first employee, Michelle moved out there and we started
18:48doing our denim production there because LA is a big denim production place. So that was kind of
18:53exciting in its own right because the capabilities out there are so much bigger than they are in New
18:59York. And, you know, we produce everything in New York city, which we're really proud of, you know,
19:03we don't do any Far East productions. So we have like one-on-one relationships with all our
19:08factories and stuff, which is great. And we've been selling there for, for, since we started,
19:13you know, really growing domestically. And we found this great spot on Melrose Place. This is,
19:19you know, such a great street in West Hollywood that has all these other women designers on the
19:25street, you know, like Maria Cornejo and Isabel Moran and Chloe and Marnie, Irene Newworth. And I was like,
19:34this is kind of an interesting, cool pocket of female thinkers and a nice place for customers to
19:41go and explore. I love that you chose that location based on, you know, the fact that
19:47they would have this like interaction with other female designers in the, in the area. It wasn't
19:52just about you. And I think that that's always such a nice quality about you is that you're always
19:56looking for other people to kind of, I don't know, sort of bounce your own kind of ideas off of,
20:03you know, using them as like a catalyst in a way. What other women entrepreneurs do you look up to?
20:08Whose, whose businesses do you really admire?
20:11Good question.
20:13Is it?
20:14Kind of. I mean, I think it's so hard to find mentors, you know? Um, it has been for me.
20:20We've
20:20talked about that before. Um, I mean, I mean, I can think of in terms of business, I don't know
20:30exactly.
20:31I mean, I could think of female designers. You introduced me to Norma and that we had that great
20:36lunch a couple of weeks ago and I'm still talking about that to my friends because it was so
20:39interesting and fun.
20:41Having lunch with her is like, it's really like a, it's almost like a spiritual experience. You do
20:46really feel like you're in the presence of greatness when you spend time with her.
20:49Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much.
20:51Anytime.
20:51For introducing me.
20:52She loves you too.
20:53Yeah. No, she was so cool. She, you know, we talked about so many things and, you know,
20:58I don't know that many, I mean, I know other designers in my generation kind of, but I don't
21:04know that many at that point in their career. And she was so open and it was really such a
21:10great experience to talk to her about things. So it was cool. Rare. When I reflect on the
21:1615 years, I see so many different kind of moments that represent a time or, or a collaboration
21:24or a period or something and so many different explorations, some that were better than others
21:30for sure. But I think, and I hope that, that we've been able to establish that. So our customers
21:35know when they come back to our stores that they're going to see something fresh. It's not
21:39going to be the usual or something, you know,
21:42Rachel Comey. It's so good to have you on Unstyled as a guest and I hope you'll come
21:46back again.
21:47Thank you so much, Christine.
21:48Thanks.
21:49I hope you're inspired after hearing Rachel Comey's story. For even more Unstyled extras,
21:54check out Refinery29 or my Instagram at Christine Barbrick. You can also join the conversation using
22:00the hashtag Unstyled across your social media. And of course, we'd be super grateful if you'd
22:05please subscribe to Unstyled on iTunes and rate us while you're there. You can head to
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22:15newsletter delivered straight to your inbox every week. Our show today was produced and edited by
22:20Elisa Kreisinger with production assistance from Rebecca Easley for Refinery29. Copy and research
22:26support provided by Lila Brilsen. Our theme music today is by the artist Koth. Hannes Brown produced
22:32our episode music. And we recorded Unstyled with Paul Ruist. We'll see you back here next Monday
22:38for a conversation with Piera Gilardi, my co-founder at Refinery29 on living a creative life.