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00:04In 1977, Judy, a young disabled woman played by Ruth Madley,
00:10and a scrappy coalition of outsiders decide they've had enough.
00:15With no disabled access to schools, jobs, or even a way to get a wheelchair over a curb,
00:22the group decide to storm a federal building and insist on their rights.
00:28Ultimately, they pull off the longest sit-in in U.S. history,
00:33and that eventually led to the American Disability Act being passed,
00:38which made accessibility mandatory.
00:41This is a rock and roll story of a group of people who'd been ignored and passed over their whole
00:48lives.
00:49They came together, and they managed to pull off the seemingly impossible.
00:54Now, please welcome to the stage, writer, director, producer, Sian Hader.
01:06Producer, Kevin Walsh.
01:12Actor, Ruth Madley.
01:20Casting director, Bernard Telsey.
01:24And casting director, Adam Caldwell.
01:31Now, before we start the conversation, we're going to roll a clip.
01:37They see you in front of the stairs, and they think that you're the problem.
01:42Oh, look at that poor girl.
01:43Her legs don't work, okay?
01:44But you are not the problem.
01:47You are not the problem.
01:48You are not the problem.
01:49The stairs are the problem.
01:53And all they need to do is build a ramp, okay?
01:57That is not, that is not too much to ask.
02:06Okay, this has been, this has been uncomfortable and really hard.
02:14And it will continue to be.
02:19But this is so much bigger than us.
02:25And I am going to stay in this building
02:30until Califano signs those regulations without changing one word.
02:40I want to know who's with me.
03:01Yeah.
03:03Oh, yeah.
03:18Beautiful work there from Ruth.
03:21Congratulations.
03:22Thank you very, very much.
03:25Different accent now.
03:27Sound very different.
03:28A little bit.
03:29What an incredible story.
03:31Sean, I'd love to start with you.
03:34Tell me the story of how you came to know about Judy Heumann.
03:37And it's a little bit to do with Jim Lebrecht's Crip Camp documentary.
03:42Yes, absolutely.
03:43Also, the movie's really funny.
03:45That was a very, like, serious clip.
03:47But there's a lot of...
03:48No, I am funny in it.
03:49I am funny.
03:49Very funny.
03:50Ruth is very funny in this movie as well.
03:51You are still crying.
03:53No, I mean, I can't believe that I didn't know Judy's story.
03:57Judy's story, the story of the 504 and this protest,
04:00feels like it's something that I should have learned about in school,
04:03in, you know, civil rights history of understanding how our world came to look like it did.
04:08And I didn't know Judy's story.
04:10And I had made CODA, but it hadn't come out in the world yet.
04:15I had been finished my edit.
04:17But I'd had a very profound experience on CODA entering the deaf community
04:23and really understanding how many of these stories aren't told
04:28and that there were these incredible stories within the disability community
04:31and just was never represented.
04:35And a friend of mine was the accessibility coordinator for Crip Camp at Sundance.
04:40And she sent me a text message and said,
04:43I'm hanging out with this woman, Judy Heumann.
04:44She's the coolest woman on the planet and someone should make a movie about her
04:48and I think it should be you.
04:50And I'm like, I don't know who this woman is.
04:52I didn't, but I looked Judy up and then about a month later I saw Crip Camp
04:56and was so moved by the movie and really intrigued by Judy
05:00because she's so funny and she was this little woman with this Brooklyn accent
05:06and had kind of incredible, she was so self-possessed
05:10and so hilariously like in command of everybody.
05:15And in Crip Camp she was, you know, the scene that intrigued me
05:19was like her talking about lasagna in the cafeteria,
05:21but she was doing it with this like incredible force of nature attitude.
05:26And so I read Judy's memoir, Being Human,
05:29and when I got to the section on the 504 protest,
05:33I was like, this is the movie.
05:35This is an incredible story.
05:37It was this contained, very tense, funny, crazy story
05:43where they, you know, a hundred disabled people took over a federal building
05:47and held the building for 26 days
05:49and the Black Panthers showed up
05:51and the FBI cut off the building of food and water.
05:55Like it was just full of, but it was also full of joy and humor
05:59and they built a sex tent and a lot of people did drugs for the first time.
06:03And, you know, so I was like, this is an incredible story.
06:09And I sent Judy a cold email and just said,
06:11I'd love to tell your story
06:13and thinking maybe I'll hear back, maybe I won't.
06:16And she wrote me back like 20 minutes later
06:19and said, I am making a movie about my life
06:21and if you can meet with me by five o'clock today,
06:23you can be in the running to tell this story.
06:27And so I met with her and just felt instantly connected to her.
06:31I worked with her for about two years developing the story
06:35and doing research into the protest
06:37and she passed away suddenly two years into us working together.
06:41But she was an incredible person and a friend
06:44and I felt very much when she passed away,
06:48I called Jim LeBrecht, who's the director of Crip Camp,
06:51one of them, and Jim and Nicole.
06:53And I called Jim and just devastated
06:56and I said, I don't think I can tell this story now without Judy.
06:59And he said, Sean, I think you have to tell this story now.
07:02So I was lucky that had, you know,
07:05a lot of people from her life that helped me tell the story.
07:11It is such a moving, I mean, the theatre in Toronto
07:15when I saw this film, everyone was crying.
07:17But it is also funny.
07:18No, it is, I swear.
07:20There's all so much humour in there and light and joy
07:23and it's a whole mix of things
07:27and that's just a reflection of what life is like.
07:30I think so many people think that disability kind of just takes away
07:33any kind of joy and it's just not true
07:37and this was a beautiful way to show that.
07:41Kevin, I love to hear the story of how the film came together.
07:45As a producer, you know, you were looking at
07:47obviously a lot of roadblocks seriously
07:52in financial terms, in accessibility.
07:57You need this film to echo what the characters are asking for,
08:03which is, you know, do not have a film set without accessibility.
08:07That means persuading people to pay for that.
08:10So you've got a fight on your hands.
08:12Tell me about making sure this film got made
08:15and why you put all the heart and weight behind it.
08:19Yeah, I mean, it was a fight that Sean and I led together,
08:22you know, and she led it for longer than I did.
08:24But we really approached this film
08:27with the same kind of relentlessness that Judy approached her life
08:31and I think the two women on either side of me
08:33have a same similar relentlessness to Judy,
08:36which is shows in Ruth's performance
08:38but also in how this film got made.
08:40So there was a big aversion to making film with disabled actors.
08:45You know, we had 10 disabled leads,
08:47we had 40 disabled actors on set on any given day
08:50and we really took a lot of detail
08:53and a lot of time to make sure that we got it right.
08:58Our other producer, Diana Pokorny, who's not here with us today,
09:02you know, we were in Toronto, you know, whatever, 10 weeks early,
09:05laying out the plan for what this would be
09:07and we really, we created, I think, history
09:12in making a set that was accessible,
09:16making ramps that were accessible to trailers,
09:18you know, retrofitting hair and makeup trailers,
09:21you know, for disabled actors to be able to use.
09:24And we were as proud of that as we were,
09:27as we are of the movie.
09:29And it took a company like Apple to really support us
09:33and, you know, we went at them hard about what we needed
09:36and they listened.
09:37And so, you know, it, it, it was a big challenge.
09:41I always, I joked to Sean, you know,
09:43when we first met with the film,
09:44she said, why do you want to do this?
09:46I said, because I'm fucking terrified of the movie.
09:49It was why I want to do it.
09:49But I, I, I grew up with a dear friend who was disabled
09:53and, you know, saw his challenges that he had.
09:57And so I really wanted to make the film for him,
10:00this guy named Judd Bogard.
10:02And Sean and I talked about that in our first meeting.
10:04But I think that, that we were terrified
10:09of making sure we got it right
10:10because there were so many challenges
10:12and we had to adjust.
10:13We had to adjust on the fly.
10:16We had to amend our plan,
10:17but we tackled that side of the production
10:21with as much ferocity as we did the creative.
10:24And, you know, when something became overwhelming,
10:27you know, we, we used a great team of people.
10:29We had a disability coordinator,
10:31some of whom are here today,
10:33a team of 10 people that were there
10:34to help, help us with, with the, the crew.
10:36And so we really, we were supported by Apple,
10:40supported by our great team
10:41and led by, you know, Sean's ferocity
10:44to try and tell us the right way.
10:47Fantastic.
10:49Ruth.
10:50I have to say,
10:53I'm really haunted by something you told me at Toronto.
10:56And you told it as like-
10:57That's what I can say.
10:58I'm sorry.
11:00Oh God.
11:00No, you said it as sort of almost like
11:02an off-the-cuff anecdote,
11:04but it really stayed with me
11:05about how in your life as an actor
11:07before making this film,
11:09you'd learned not to drink water on sets.
11:12Yeah.
11:13Because there was never a bathroom for you.
11:15Yeah.
11:15Early on in my career.
11:17Yeah.
11:17I'd be like, don't worry.
11:19I just won't drink.
11:21Yeah.
11:23Well, so tell us what it's meant to you
11:26to play Judy
11:28and a little bit about
11:30how you built the character of her
11:32because as Sean said,
11:34you know, obviously she sadly passed away
11:36before the film could be made.
11:38Yeah.
11:40I guess, first of all,
11:42it was a case of
11:44one of the best things about this
11:46was my collaboration with Sean.
11:48I think Sean is so wonderful with actors
11:53and the work that we did together
11:55to kind of separate
11:58me idolizing Judy
12:00because she's an icon in our community.
12:03She is.
12:04It's impossible to not be aware of her
12:06if you're disabled
12:07and to kind of break all of that down
12:11and show the real person,
12:13the humanity,
12:14the humor,
12:15the vulnerability,
12:16the joy,
12:17all of those things
12:18that perhaps people didn't know about her
12:20because obviously she is a powerhouse
12:23and that was what the world knew her as.
12:26But to have the privilege of showing those quieter moments,
12:30the moments of humor,
12:31the moments of warmth,
12:33that that was such a joy and a privilege for me.
12:39And, I mean,
12:40even if this wasn't based on a true story,
12:45what a brilliant gift for an actor
12:47to play such a multitude of things.
12:50But I guess,
12:52aside from acting as a disabled person,
12:55some jobs just have a different,
12:57a deeper meaning.
12:59And this one for me truly did.
13:01And as well,
13:04not just in the work on the dialogue and the scenes,
13:08but to know that all of this,
13:10my job on set was to be an actor
13:14because these guys are taking care of everything else.
13:18And that is still really, really new in the industry.
13:22Like, I felt like I'd forgotten something half the time
13:27because I was like, I'm meant to be doing something else.
13:29I'm like, oh, no, it's taken care of.
13:31And that weight that you carry around with you
13:33was so,
13:34it was so liberating to not have to handle all of that as well.
13:39And then to,
13:41on top of that,
13:42to know that the work that these guys did
13:44in finding disabled actors
13:47when the industry constantly said,
13:49well, there just aren't any.
13:51There's just not any.
13:52Where did we find them?
13:52These guys found them.
13:54So it was, yeah,
13:55the whole thing as a package
13:56was just the biggest joy.
13:58And, I mean,
14:00what a privilege to play a legend every day
14:02on set for a moment in time.
14:04It doesn't get better than that for me.
14:07It really is fantastic.
14:09And I urge everyone to see this movie ASAP.
14:12So, speaking of casting,
14:15we've got a double threat over there
14:17with Bernard and Adam.
14:19How did you divide and conquer
14:22and figure this out?
14:23Because, I mean,
14:25as we were saying,
14:27there is an enormous cast
14:29of both actors, non-actors,
14:31and known actors, unknown actors.
14:34It was incredible.
14:36Yeah, I would just say
14:37one of the most fun things
14:39about casting
14:39is getting to know actors
14:41you don't know.
14:42And that's what
14:43this whole movie was about.
14:45I mean, yes,
14:45we knew some of them,
14:47but I feel like when Sean says,
14:49I'm so bummed I didn't know
14:50who Judy Heumann was,
14:51I'm so bummed I didn't know
14:53all these actors already.
14:54Because they're so amazing
14:57in this movie,
14:58and yet it just makes me realize,
15:00no matter how long
15:00I've been doing this,
15:02they don't have,
15:03they're not given the opportunity.
15:04Like, this woman is incredible
15:06in this movie,
15:07and she wasn't born yesterday.
15:10You know what I mean?
15:10We just,
15:11you know what I mean?
15:14You know,
15:14we're just always shutting
15:15those things down
15:16as a society
15:17and thinking,
15:18oh, they're not disabled,
15:19so they can't play
15:20an able-bodied person.
15:21Oh, you know,
15:21they're disabled,
15:22so they shouldn't play
15:23an able-bodied person.
15:24What they should do.
15:25Yeah, and it's so enlightening
15:27having been through this process
15:28and getting to know
15:29so many incredible actors.
15:32I mean, it was daunting,
15:34but it was exciting,
15:35because we had an opportunity here
15:37to do something
15:38that hadn't been done before.
15:41We talk about diversity
15:42all the time in casting.
15:43It's like our initial conversations
15:45about ethnicity and race,
15:47and sometimes we'll talk
15:48about body diversity,
15:49but this was on another level
15:51of diversity and disability
15:53and how we really hoped
15:55that we could capture
15:58the essence and the spirit
15:59of the real people
16:01who were at this event
16:02who each character
16:04could have had a movie about them.
16:05I mean, Judy's amazing.
16:06Right, these are all real people.
16:07There's Hale Zukas, Ed Roberts,
16:09like Brad Lomax.
16:10All these people were incredible,
16:11and so, yes,
16:12it was very daunting,
16:13but it was exciting, too,
16:15because we got to meet
16:16all these people
16:17and see them
16:18in their messy complications
16:20and their joy and...
16:22And to have been given the time
16:23with Sean and Kevin
16:24and everyone in Apple
16:26to really get to see people
16:28from all over the world.
16:29These guys refer to it
16:30as the casting Olympics
16:31at one point
16:32because there were
16:33so many challenges,
16:34and they met them,
16:35and it was incredible
16:37for us to go see
16:39a lot of these performances
16:40and see these people
16:41make these characters
16:42come to life in ways,
16:43like you said,
16:44they were undiscovered,
16:45but they shouldn't have been
16:47undiscovered.
16:48Yeah, the people are out there.
16:50If the roles are there,
16:51if the stories are there,
16:52we can find them.
16:54We just got to have the time
16:55and the permission
16:57to go and find them.
17:00Well, I'm sorry to say
17:01we're out of time.
17:02I love talking to you.
17:04I love this movie.
17:05Congratulations.
17:07Everybody, being human.