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00:05Oh god it never gets old I've seen that a few times and it is so funny Danny I'm
00:11gonna start with you hello so first of all can you start us off by saying how
00:17did you come to James's story to working with James on his play and having
00:21adapted to screen what's the background of that I saw I saw the I saw the play
00:26in the West End not far from here in the West End and it was a wonderful evening
00:30and it was weird because I really enjoyed the evening I learnt quite a lot
00:34about theatre because it was an extraordinary kind of celebration of
00:38live performance it was a an incredible performance by Bertie Carvell playing
00:43Rupert Murdoch and but I thought no it isn't really about him is it the plays
00:49actually about the other guy Larry Lamb and so that was my first reaction and the
00:54same reaction was to do with it's it that he didn't feel to me it didn't feel
00:58like a period story even though it's set in 1969 and so that was something that we
01:04came on to later in the film that we do it to try and make it a contemporary make
01:08it feel like a contemporary film and and then James sent the screenplay and that
01:14he'd adapted and we were on I thought well let's try and raise the money and it
01:18was very difficult to raise the money weirdly you can read into that whatever
01:22you want in terms of conspiracy theories why was it very difficult to raise the
01:27money for an incredibly successful stage play could you elaborate on the
01:31conspiracy on the you just go finance what was the finance gonna come from and
01:36why couldn't we raise any money for it and I've got to say a big shout out to
01:40Studio Canal who did give us the money and then they partnered up with Netflix and
01:44you know so we got there but it was very tough yeah we didn't have enough money
01:47which was great because we had a kind of siege mentality making it that nobody
01:51really wants us to do this do they so we thought we would do it yeah you know
02:03you have said in another interview with Deadline that you looked at some other
02:06adaptations like Amadeus and Dangerous Liaisons from play to screen what did
02:11you kind of keep in mind when taking something from stage to screen that was
02:15specific just just those were there's a general tendency to feel that stage
02:22plays don't make very good films they're a bit stagey you know we all know that
02:27thing but I wanted to concentrate on two brilliant ones which and it was that of
02:32course it was the original writers who'd adapted them so it's Peter Schaeffer he
02:36adapted Amadeus and it was Christopher Hampton who adapted and you go go with the
02:41writing you know don't kind of go all chuck the writing out and make a cinema of it go with
02:46the
02:47writing and you can see in a scene like that it's brilliant writing it's just like glorious kind of
02:54thoroughbred horses for actors to ride so it was we embrace the dialogue you know and we'll try and make
03:00cinematic in it that in itself will make it cinematic speaking of brilliant writing James
03:06good morning good morning thank you for having me thank you for being here I love this film it was
03:11just like such a ride it was a rock and roll rip roaring ride through tabloid life how did you
03:19put
03:19together the detail in something like the clip we just saw there's another fantastic scene where
03:27Larry Lamb is kind of drawing up on a board what's going to go in the sun and he just
03:34goes around
03:35I'm not going to spoil it for anybody but he goes around and says what's important to you forget what
03:40you're supposed to be reading what do you want to read tv sex violence and it's such a great detailed
03:47scene so where do you mine that kind of information who do you talk to and how did you figure
03:53out that
03:53detail it's the thing I love the most in the world is that it's the best privilege of being a
03:58writer
03:59a playwright or a screenwriter it's amazing how often you can write to people chancellors of the
04:04exchequer people who own a newspaper and say I'm writing a play or a movie can I come in and
04:09most of
04:09the time because people are basically narcissists they say yes you want to do a play about me oh my
04:14god
04:14yeah come in um so you just have to be really really cheeky and I'm not like a extroverted cheeky
04:20person
04:20by nature but but you just have to sort of force your way in the door and so I love
04:24that I mean
04:24I know some some writers I think sometimes um understandably outsource that research because
04:29it can feel quite academic and daunting but to me that's where you get the strange detail and it is
04:35it is the weird stuff like um you know people whenever I walk into a meeting I think people think
04:40I want to talk about the philosophy of what is news and I say things like no but where'd you
04:44park your car
04:45where'd you get your coffee uh what pussy week how did you come up with that idea and it's it's
04:49the
04:49strange detail where you find the humor and and the life but as you say I mean the reason you
04:54say
04:54yes memoirs meetings we had um Danny organized what felt like actually a huge privilege that you get in
05:00the theater but you don't always get in a in a movie we had about a two-week rehearsal period
05:05which
05:06actually I was working on the script I was very very closely with Jack on on on the dialogue and
05:11the
05:11script particularly the last scene and that was great to me so you're coming in with new pages every
05:16day and trying them out and trying out new lines but in that we got to research um an incredible
05:21amount of talent from Fleet Street for those of you young enough not to remember Fleet Street is an
05:27extraordinary idea it's I think there's nowhere else like it in the world except the UK which has
05:33all had all of its newspapers in one strip of land between uh the Royal Courts of Justice that side
05:40and then the uh some pause that side so between justice and God you have Fleet Street trying to
05:45balance the two sometimes unsuccessfully and and it was like a wild west of restaurants and spas and bars
05:52and all newspapers on top of each other and Danny invited in all these incredible people Eve Pollard
05:58who was the first ever female editor of a tablo and newspaper we've got people from the print room who
06:02could talk about the grimy dirty mess of winning a newspaper and that's that is just that's such a
06:08privilege to hear from from people the lived experience of that moment and then the final
06:12thing you have to do is you implied is then how do you connect all that history and all that
06:17research
06:17from a time and a place and make it feel like it's going to speak to what I hope it
06:21will speak to the
06:22anxieties of today about truth and about information and about the platforms in which we share our
06:28information well so well said not surprising for a writer but the first draft I'll work on it and I'll
06:35get
06:35better at it but thank you Jack had you seen the play before you signed on to this and tell
06:41me what
06:42you knew about the story beforehand um no actually I had unbelievable I mean let me take it I put
06:54you
06:54on the spot there didn't I he doesn't talk to me I've said um I'd love to I would have
06:59loved to have
07:00been there I've seen other James Graham plays in fact there's one out at the moment um which I'm
07:06hoping to get to if if he speaks to me again I might be able to glean a ticket your
07:10discount it's fine
07:11yeah um what did I know about the story not not a great deal to be honest I didn't know
07:17who uh Larry
07:18Lamb the uh newspaper editor was um and so yeah coming to it anew which is in a lot of
07:28ways it's
07:29it's quite a treat um my grandma could talk about this guy my grandma still has an edition of the
07:37sun
07:37newspaper on her um kitchen table every day she doesn't leave the house but there's somehow a brand
07:45new uh edition of the sun I've tried to talk to her about it um but you know she's she's
07:53nearly 90
07:53so um so has she seen the film please say she has she she will do she will do um
08:01so but it's it's
08:05significance I think as as a publication in our culture is something that I knew about and was
08:11fascinated in and um to learn about the the individuals in in in charge of that including
08:19Murdoch I suppose and to learn different things about Rupert Murdoch I think was uh part of the
08:26overall fascination um but yeah he is is a very influential figure I think sir Larry Lamb and um to
08:35us all I think he's impacted all of our lives in in some way uh to to steal Danny's quip
08:40um this is
08:42set the same time uh that we NASA sent a team of astronauts to the moon and in a lot
08:52of ways I think
08:52this meeting this this uh this chain of events is perhaps more influential to us uh on a personal
09:00scale than that um absolutely agree I also you know think about the fact that and this is for all
09:08of you really is that the film has a really strong kind of sense of good and evil every good
09:14story does
09:15because there's moments where I think Larry is almost devilish you know he's kind of this pusher of
09:21dopamine because he's he's kind of ignoring the existing intellectualism or integrity um of the
09:32newspapers the old guard you know and he just makes it into this indulgent dopamine hit from the paper
09:39and that's what's created the way things are today in some ways so I would ask you all maybe James
09:47you
09:48could start us off how how much do you think they're responsible for the way we consume these
09:53today or would it have happened even if Murdoch and Lamb had never met that's a really good question
10:00uh obviously you want to center your narrative and events and like to think that it's really
10:06impactful but I I really do think it is I mean they they they they their concept um at the
10:13time which
10:13was which was rejected and I think that's why it's important to go back and and ask these
10:17questions and just to name it in the room the the sun is obviously still very emotive for a lot
10:22of
10:22people it's um it's a controversial publication it became the most uh well-read newspaper in the
10:30english-speaking world and I think all of us collectively um thought it was a worthwhile
10:35question asking why what what what about it did it appeal particularly like as Jack's alluded to
10:42class Englishness and class is a huge part of this and why it cut through certain communities
10:46including mine I come from a mining village in Nottinghamshire that read the sum and their simple
10:51idea uh was rather than just telling people what we thought they should hear about the world and
10:56about politics um that wreathian BBC philosophy of the news educate and entertain they believe that
11:03we should be asking what do people want and that's not a non noble question what do people want in
11:08their daily pleasures in their lives what's even some of the the darkness in your soul that needs
11:13sating satisfying whether it's about sex whether it's about you know these questions they asked
11:17they came up with a model a template for popular sensationalist news um and the film explores the
11:24cost and the benefits to that and I think the cost is clear to this day I mean that it's
11:30literally
11:30the model that the internet runs on it's if it's popular it means it's good and obviously we all know
11:35just because it's popular doesn't necessarily mean that it is good just the thing that gets shared the
11:38most is not necessarily doesn't have the most value uh how much you can trace that back exclusively to
11:45the meeting between Larry Lamb and Rupert Murdoch in this restaurant I don't know but I I think
11:51they they picked up something that that that 60 years later is now the exclusive soul model in which
11:58we exchange information culture and ideas and clearly the the balance has gone too far the other way
12:06and rather than just centering doing a story about what's happening right now I think we thought
12:12there was a value in taking the long view and going right the way back to the first time anyone
12:16ever said
12:17uh what if the most important thing is what the most popular thing is
12:24again amazingly said um Danny Jack what do you think do you feel that there was a responsibility there that
12:33they they they kind of changed history for all of us I think there's such thing as standard
12:40um and I think if if you are the if if if you have an outreach of of so many
12:46I think there is a
12:46responsibility but the the analogy uh race to the bottom is one that's really sort of stuck with me and
12:54um yeah there is uh there is perhaps some um materialistic capitalistic gain in in in uh cheap
13:05selling cheap material cheap news clickbait for instance but I I think that that's that's uh
13:15neglecting some responsibility I feel like if if there is supposed to be a standard bearer
13:22and it feels like there perhaps um was was more of a standard in in in this uh era I
13:29don't know I
13:30wasn't there but it it it feels to me being part of the internet generation that there perhaps
13:37was a system in place to uh affect accountability and that that I think that has just sort of vanished
13:47almost absolutely in a post-truth world that we we seem to all subscribe to post-truth is right
13:55you know Danny how about you so so one of the challenges of the film which was really interesting
14:00was to try and not let to try and avoid people being too judgmental walking into it because it's
14:06about the sun which people have a very uh it's very marmite opinion about and also because it's about
14:13Murdoch which people have a really marmite entirely loathing uh you're worried about people going in
14:20bringing that modern day judgment to it so we tried to make the film as entertaining as possible as you
14:25can see from that clip that you just saw and it's and there's a real purpose in that and it's
14:30to make
14:30us all complicit in it because the sun whatever you think about it it ended up being the biggest
14:36selling newspaper in the world and those four five million people aren't stupid and they didn't buy
14:43it because it was a bad paper there was something in it that spoke to them and it's it's the
14:50it's a
14:50carousel or a slide that you're on I think and you lose sight of certain things what Jack was talking
14:57about standards you lose sight but you're not aware you're doing it at the time and we wanted to try
15:01make that rather than feeling superior to it and judgmental of it to begin with we wanted to lure
15:07people in as an experience so that something emerges when you watch the film as a consequence of
15:13everything that's gone before and the consequences of to my mind what Jack was saying about it's more
15:21important than the trip to the moon is all the things that we are addicted to now twitter x you
15:30know
15:30social media generally only fans if I dare mention that you know the the everybody's addicted to are
15:38a consequence and if you come and see the film you'll see that that's where the film delivers you
15:43to so I believe it's a contemporary film ultimately by actually playing fast and loose with this
15:50extraordinary period that these these two get there's extraordinary technique that these guys
15:56initiated as the tabloid language well I've gone over time because honestly I could talk to you
16:03for hours about this film I urge everyone here to see it it is truly fantastic and as you saw
16:08hilarious
16:09and informative at the same time congratulations to you all thank you so much thank you
16:16thank you