00:00Let's see where Zach Meisel takes us.
00:02He's on the Wise Heart Write.
00:02We make a write call Kyle Write Hotline.
00:04He is a senior writer for The Athletic,
00:06covers the Cleveland Guardians.
00:08Zach, was Petey Halpin's home run,
00:10where does it rank for you in postseason home runs
00:12that you've seen live, that you've covered live?
00:16Third.
00:17Behind who?
00:19I don't know.
00:20I didn't know this question was coming.
00:21I don't have a list handy.
00:23God damn it.
00:23What if we played the power rank music?
00:26Would that buy you some time?
00:27Yeah, would that buy you some?
00:28I might.
00:30You get a David Frye.
00:31Yeah, here we go.
00:32Ooh, Lane Thomas was a good one, Zach.
00:35That might have been bigger.
00:37Oscar Gonzalez, was that bigger?
00:39No, that was...
00:41No, that was...
00:42It was cool, but that was the wild card round.
00:45Rajay?
00:46Rajay Davis, number one.
00:48They lost the game.
00:49That's going to be controversial to some people, yeah.
00:52I don't know.
00:53Maybe this was first.
00:55Lindor Santa Maria off the foul pole.
00:58They lost the series, though.
01:00And I caught hell the next day, or a couple days later.
01:03Well, we don't know how this series ends yet.
01:05Did I?
01:06If they win this series, you could probably argue it's certainly top two, right?
01:11Awesome.
01:11That I've seen.
01:12I mean, there were some big ones back in the day.
01:16Tony Fernandez.
01:18Yeah.
01:18That's tough to top.
01:19It does matter if you win the series or not.
01:22I think it does.
01:23All right.
01:23Zach Meisel joining us here on the Weissart Right.
01:25We make a right call, Kyle, right hotline.
01:28Vote came away looking brilliant after pulling Gavin Williams after five innings.
01:34Should I be?
01:35And I didn't know about the velo while the game was going on.
01:38I didn't see that.
01:39Should I be worried about Gavin Williams' velocity?
01:43No, I think everyone's just gassed.
01:46It's mid-October.
01:47And he did something in the previous series he had never done in his life.
01:53And it's incredible that he was able to come out of the bullpen and save Cade Smith in game four
02:00and then just look absolutely electric and sharp less than 48 hours later in game five.
02:06So they were super cautious with him all week anyway.
02:09It's why they didn't announce him as the starter until late Wednesday afternoon.
02:16They just wanted to make sure he was bouncing back and feeling okay.
02:19But I think they thought that this was possible, that the stuff wasn't going to hold for 100 pitches.
02:25So the velo dropped.
02:26And it was also the perfect time to go get Espino, who faced the same three guys he faced in
02:32game one,
02:33when he struck all of them out.
02:35So if he pitches again in a series, it's game seven and it's on regular rest.
02:39And I think they feel like he'll be fine for that.
02:44And, you know, even with him only throwing 70 pitches, like it, the bullpen was rested.
02:50Like it worked out perfectly.
02:52So you think if the velo was the same, he would have definitely come out?
02:57Or do you think they're still having an agonizing conversation about it?
03:00Yeah.
03:00Like if his velo held, I think he probably faces the top three in the order in the sixth,
03:05because ideally you want a right-hander against those three guys.
03:08And then you want a lefty against the rest of the lineup.
03:10So that would be my guess.
03:13But I think they could tell that the stuff was slipping a little bit.
03:16So they had a Espino warming.
03:18If they don't play today and game four gets pushed back, what's that mean for the starting rotation?
03:25Yeah, this is all a mess.
03:27It's a mess for both teams.
03:29You know, it's almost easier to work backwards where you could say, okay,
03:32if there's a game seven, it's Gavin Williams.
03:34That's Tuesday.
03:36If there's a game six, if they play tonight, Parker Messick is,
03:40is your game six starter Monday in Tampa, if there is one.
03:44If they don't play tonight, Messick could be ready on regular rest Sunday in Cleveland for game five.
03:53They're going to need a bullpen game at some point.
03:56That could be tonight.
03:57You know, there's a number of people who could start that.
04:00It could be Sean Armstrong.
04:01It could be Tanner Vibey.
04:03It could be Slade Ciccone.
04:04It could be, you know, you could go with Joey Cantillo in bulk at some point, a lot of ways
04:10to go.
04:12And then, you know, Foster Griffin started game one.
04:15So he could pitch Saturday or Sunday, depending on what you want to do with Messick, depending on when you
04:21play.
04:22Maybe use an opener for him because he was a little shaky against the very top of the Rays lineup.
04:27So this is a mess.
04:29The big thing is, if you play tonight, you have Sunday off, so you can really deploy your bullpen however
04:36you want.
04:37If you don't play tonight, there's the potential that you have to play four straight days if the series goes
04:43seven.
04:43And then it gets just a little dicey with, you know, how often and when you use Cade Smith and
04:49those guys.
04:50So we'll see.
04:52I know there was a point yesterday where we were kind of told, hey, you might want to, if you've
04:57got Sunday travel, you might want to look at pushing it to Monday.
05:00And then I think MLB and the teams met during the game and decided, let's actually table this conversation until
05:06Friday morning.
05:08And so we'll see.
05:10You know, the Dodgers and Brewers series ending means if they do play tonight, now it's at 8 p.m.
05:15I'm not a meteorologist, so I don't know what that means for the forecast.
05:18But, you know, they're evaluating all this stuff as we speak.
05:22Zach Meisel joining us from The Athletic.
05:24If you were managing the Guardians, would you, you wouldn't be talking to us right now, you'd make too much
05:29money.
05:30You'd be too successful.
05:31I mean, it's just that simple.
05:33I mean, he's fantastic.
05:35Who would you start in a opener role in game four if you made that decision?
05:44Maybe Sean Armstrong.
05:46He's been nailed in the postseason.
05:48He hasn't given up a run.
05:49He's pitched a lot.
05:50He's a veteran.
05:52I don't think he would be fazed by it.
05:55Like, Espino is the perfect prototype for it.
05:58But he, just because he did this in the Chicago series and it didn't go well.
06:04That's not to say it wouldn't go well here.
06:06But, I don't know, coming out of the bullpen and just facing the top three, he's been so good.
06:13So, those are probably the options.
06:15Like, the Bybee thing, I just, I don't know.
06:19I don't know what to expect with him and you've stayed away from him so much.
06:23The same with Matt Festa, where it's like, those guys, in Festa's case, he hasn't pitched at all.
06:29Those guys have barely pitched and I just don't know what to expect from them.
06:32Especially Bybee, who was on an every five-day routine all season and then you, you know, now he's not.
06:38So, maybe Armstrong, I guess.
06:41And then just have him go three batters.
06:43And then when you get a bunch of lefties in the Rays lineup, you switch over to Cantillo.
06:48Okay.
06:49Real quick, I'm sorry, Tone, but what is going on with Tanner Bybee?
06:54He had a rough year and, you know, I think the way the division series set up with the
07:00off days, you knew you could go with Williams and Messick for four of those five games.
07:05So, you only needed a third starter once.
07:10And I just, you know, you get to October and you're trying to limit out, you're counting
07:16outs, basically.
07:17And you're saying there's 27 outs and you only want to use your high leverage guys, you
07:22know, if you're in the game.
07:24And it's just, I think there's a level of trust here.
07:27There's a hierarchy and Bybee is a lot lower on it this year than he normally is.
07:33All right, Zach, the offense has been just good enough, but can it be this and them still
07:43advance to the World Series?
07:47I think so, just because I think the style that these teams play and going to play and
07:52have played is close, low scoring games, right?
07:55Like it was two to two in the seventh inning of game one before the offense got going there
08:00late.
08:00It was close, low scoring game in game two.
08:03It was the same thing yesterday.
08:04So, yeah, I think so.
08:06It's truly just going to be whichever team gets the key hit with runners in scoring position.
08:11And, you know, the Guardians have done such a better job of that over the last two months
08:15than they did in the first four.
08:18You know, that was that was their Achilles heel for a while.
08:21And then they added some good hitters with experience who, you know, Nate Lowe is a guy
08:26you send up there in a key moment and you just trust him, whether it's a lefty or a righty
08:31at this point.
08:32And they didn't have that with a lot of guys that they were trotting out there early in
08:37the season.
08:38And so, yeah, I think, you know, this is kind of the formula they used in 2016.
08:43Like yesterday was the most 2016 October game that they have played yet, where you got the
08:50starting pitching, you leaned on the bullpen and you got the one timely hit you needed at
08:54the right time.
08:55Like that's how they won all of those games in 2016.
08:58Um, but we've seen this offense turn it on, you know, they scored the nine runs in back
09:02to back games in Chicago.
09:03They scored seven runs in the opener in Tampa.
09:06So that's in there too.
09:07It's why I just think they're, they're so much more equipped to, to do this.
09:13Um, and they've shown so far, like it doesn't matter.
09:17It could be Jose Ramirez one day and it could be PD freaking helping one day.
09:21And you never know.
09:23Uh, Zach, obviously you weren't alone earlier in the year and basically every year for calling
09:29out, um, the organization for what they didn't do in the off season.
09:34Uh, we are in a situation now where the Brewers raise guardians, the last three teams standing
09:41and some people, the Jeff passes of the world are trying to make this part of a larger discussion
09:47about how baseball seems to be fine.
09:50Why do we need to go through any labor strife and talk about the lack of a salary cap or
09:55salary floor?
09:56Do you think that is very short sighted Zach?
10:01Yeah.
10:01I mean, there's a reason that this is the anomaly, right?
10:05I mean, it's, it's the Royals in 2015 are still the only, you know, team that didn't really
10:11spend to win a world series in the last 20 ish years.
10:15Um, look, I, this is going to be a talking point from the moment the world series ends
10:21until God knows when, uh, and who knows how this will shake out.
10:28Like I, I have no idea.
10:29And, and we spend so much time talking about the salary cap and the salary floor that we
10:35don't talk about like what else is going to come out of the CBA.
10:38There's a lot more that will get changed or needs to get changed or will be discussed
10:44about potentially being changed than just that.
10:46And this has obviously dominated the conversation and the way that the final four shook out this
10:52year is certainly going to fuel everybody's takes.
10:55But, you know, this is one year.
10:57Um, I think like nobody was the whole point was like literally a year ago, the Brewers
11:04were an awesome team that I think they were the one seed they faced the Dodgers and the
11:09LCS and the Dodgers swept them.
11:11And everyone was saying like, this is why we need a salary cap.
11:14Cause this is, you know, the, the Brewers maxed out.
11:16This is all they could do is get to this point.
11:18And then the Dodgers end up winning out.
11:20So, you know, these conversations change just based on convenience, um, and we'll see
11:27what it means.
11:27But I think the, the, the overarching point here is the final four teams are widely regarded
11:34as the four teams with the best front offices in baseball.
11:37It's like, that's not a coincidence.
11:40And it's also not a coincidence that there've been four managers in history to win back to
11:45back manager of the year awards.
11:47Three of them are still managing right now.
11:50Kevin cash with the rays, even vote with the guardians and Pat Murphy of the Brewers.
11:54So, you know, it's those three and Bobby Cox back with the Braves way back in the day.
11:59So that's it.
12:00Like that, that's, that's, it's not a coincidence.
12:02These three teams have done a lot of things really, really well to, to set themselves up
12:06to get to this point.
12:08Zach Meisel on the wise heart, right.
12:11We make a right call.
12:12Kyle, right.
12:12Hotline Zach.
12:13Thank you very much for the time.
12:15Hopefully we'll talk to you again shortly, my friend.
12:17You got it, boys.
12:18I also, I need to say this.
12:20I'm sorry I'm saying it on your show.
12:21It's just, I gave Nick Wilson a lot of crap.
12:23I credit him for his move yesterday, even though he had some spelling errors.
12:28Well, I'm going to fight him.
12:29You fought me on it.
12:30Fight him.
12:31Well, I said that you can't flip flop on your visceral reaction.
12:36That's your reaction.
12:37That was his feeling.
12:38You can't just change it out because a bunch of people jumped on you.
12:41But I said, hold on.
12:42I said that I thought he reversed engineered it.
12:44And, like, you say it, and then you're like, oh, gosh, what am I saying?
12:47No.
12:47Which is fine.
12:48I think he could have done that.
12:49But then he started trying to make arguments.
12:51And I'm going, well, now you're in it.
12:53Now you are in the fight.
12:55So, yeah, you could take that back.
12:56Can't you, Zach?
12:57Yeah, I just, this thing could go to a place, you know, you could be, I don't want to get
13:02ahead of ourselves.
13:03Like, you could be talking about a parade.
13:05And then Nick Wilson shows up to the parade.
13:06And everybody booze him.
13:07And he's been a Cleveland fan.
13:08Yeah.
13:08Exactly.
13:09You don't want to get out in front of us.
13:10Yeah, I agree.
13:11Zach, thank you.
13:12You brought more levity to it.
13:13Thank you so much.
13:14We agree he had to do it.
13:16The issue is, does he really believe it?
13:19Okay.
13:20Zach, Zach, I thank you.
13:23And, yeah, leave this to me.
13:24Are they going to win the World Series?
13:25Zach?
13:26Zach Meisel.
13:26Okay, we lost.
13:27Zach Meisel.
13:28Senior writer for The Athletic.
13:29Probably should have left with that one.
13:30On the wise heart.
13:31You had plenty of opportunities to ask him a question.
13:33Go ahead and ask him a question.
13:34Yeah, it only came to me at the end.
13:36I wonder if he thinks he'll win the World Series.
13:38Nathan Zagura coming up in five minutes.
13:41Ken Carman, Anthony Lima, live on the face.
