- 6 days ago
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00:03Here we are, Richard, Charlotte, Franke, welcome to the show.
00:07Now, Richard, we've got a lot to talk about.
00:09First of all, congratulations, you've made UK traitors history
00:12by being banished at the first round table as a traitor.
00:16How are you feeling now some time's passed?
00:18Well, Joseph Stalin also made history.
00:23Pre-empt what people are going to be saying to me.
00:25But it was so iconic, Richard.
00:26Honestly, the reaction to it's been amazing.
00:28I think people absolutely loved you in the castle.
00:30OK, Ed.
00:33I was just really hoping you were going to get away with it.
00:37It seemed like you were about to.
00:38It really did.
00:39And then your defence wasn't great, was it?
00:42There was no defence whatsoever.
00:45When I walked into the bar, I was in such a state of genuine shock
00:49that I had no memory that it was Joe Lysett who'd asked me that question.
00:55And, you know, when he asked me, I thought it was like that I Spartacus moment
00:58when somebody says, are you a traitor?
00:59And he said, well, yeah, of course I am.
01:01We could play that out for you now, Richard, if you want.
01:03If you say you're a traitor, then we'll all join in and say that we're traitors as well.
01:06Are you a traitor?
01:06Yes, I'm a traitor.
01:07Are you a traitor?
01:08Yes, I'm a traitor.
01:09I am a traitor.
01:10I am a traitor.
01:11I am a traitor.
01:12That's the only time I got to say it.
01:14Oh, that's how it should have gone.
01:16That's how it should have gone.
01:17It was a very bold tactic, admitting that you're a traitor in front of everyone.
01:21And you brought up the word tactic.
01:23There was no tactic.
01:24It was my 69th birthday present.
01:26And when Claudia tapped me on the shoulder, I thought, yes, I won the best birthday present
01:31of all until the bingo thing of everybody writes your name down.
01:34Talk us through that moment, though, when you said, yes, I am a traitor.
01:37And then when asked again, you said, I'm a traitor.
01:41What are you?
01:43Traitor.
01:48You're what?
01:49Traitor.
01:50You're a traitor.
01:51Are you?
01:52Yeah.
01:53Right.
01:57What's the point of being in the game if you're not?
01:59You know?
02:00Right.
02:01Yeah.
02:02OK.
02:03It's an interesting angle.
02:04Yeah.
02:06What was happening in your brain when that happened?
02:08OK, you will know from being on it that the round table bits, by the time that Claudia
02:13has walked around four times, you think, well, by that point, there's no chance now.
02:18So I was really feeling, oh, what have I done?
02:20You know, I'm going to have to be faithful.
02:22And when she tapped me on the shoulder, I thought, don't show any emotion at all whatsoever.
02:26Yeah.
02:27And, you know, you try your best not to.
02:29But, of course, Miranda Hart sitting Miss Marbling right next to me.
02:33I think she said she immediately could feel the vibrations of joy coming at you.
02:38Blindful.
02:39You know, I have no idea.
02:40I found watching it, it was like, what, it was like, you were so childlike and joyful
02:47that actually you just couldn't contain it.
02:49You couldn't stop smiling.
02:50You were like the cat who got the cream.
02:52The joy was literally just, like, emanating.
02:55You were so happy.
02:56Just straight after the round table, the broadest smile.
02:58Even after you'd said it and you got into the turret for the first time.
03:01Yeah.
03:01There's a moment where you are bolt upright and you start jiggling up and down.
03:05Just pure excitement.
03:07It's amazing.
03:07Poor Maya.
03:08You know, she had to contend with this.
03:10And then, of course, she stabbed me right, you know, hung, drawn, recorded.
03:13I stupidly thought when we chose James Acaster, because I thought his coffin statement where
03:18he was saying he was really going to stand by me, of course, it never crossed my mind at
03:22this moment of sheer panic that he would be the last person that would say anything to
03:27support me whatsoever, because he would dob himself in.
03:29Yeah.
03:29Of course, he didn't.
03:30It's one of my favourite moments in Traitor's history when you've admitted that and you
03:34go and Joe and Rob are talking and they say, we should share this with the group.
03:38And Jerry's watched everything happen and just goes, share what?
03:42Share what?
03:43But he just really wanted to be one.
03:45One of my favourite moments when Jerry said that she was very competitive and she won the
03:49teenage leg wrestling competition in Texas.
03:52Well, we don't know what the missions are going to be like later on in the series.
03:55Maybe there'll be some leg wrestling happening.
03:57Now, Richard, very intense round table, but you kept the group guessing right until the
04:01very end.
04:04Thank you for having me and for giving me an almost bingo full house of votes.
04:10I have always wanted to be a traitor, as you know, and sometimes in life your dreams
04:19do come true and sometimes they don't.
04:26I am a unfaithful traitor.
04:48Thanks, Maya.
04:50Good one there.
04:52It's such a wonderful moment because normally in that moment in the show, you see everyone
04:56round the round table and they're like, oh God, I hope we're right.
04:58I don't know if we're right or not.
05:00Every single face there is like, yeah, we know it is.
05:04When the plonker gives them the information right up front, you know.
05:08Frankie, everyone voted for Richard apart from three players, which is Joanne Jerry and
05:12James Blunt.
05:12Did you expect so many people to go for him at that round table?
05:16No, because I think I probably just would have wanted you just to stay in.
05:20I was surprised.
05:22There could have been an agreement amongst the faithful to maybe go, look, we know it's
05:25Richard, he said it's him, so let's just keep him in for a little bit longer.
05:29Yes, maybe, yeah, kind of like, we've got one in the bag.
05:32Yeah, we've got one in the bag.
05:32Let him have, you know, let's focus on some others for a bit.
05:36Yeah.
05:36So we've discussed it, but James and Maya, your fellow traitors, voted for you.
05:40Were you surprised by that in the moment or did you think it was inevitable?
05:43I thought that Maya would definitely stab me because I put her in an absolutely untenable
05:49position.
05:49So I perfectly understood because I would do that.
05:52But I was so convinced by James Acaster's determination not to kill me off when he gave
06:00his big plea in the church after Amol, that I naively thought, oh, well, you know, maybe
06:06James, because he's so trustworthy, he would come through for me.
06:10And then, of course, when I watched it, I thought, not one word came out of James' mouth
06:14to support me.
06:16When I watched him give that plea and him saying, oh, I'm going to defend you, Richard.
06:21You knew?
06:21Oh, there was not a single part of me that thought he's going to do that.
06:24Did you think Amol had a better argument?
06:26They both had similar arguments.
06:28Yeah.
06:28But I think Amol might be more likely to have actually gone in and tried to save you.
06:34I do.
06:35And get in amongst it.
06:36No, I think he would have done.
06:37But James is very hot on playing this game of he's been recruited, so he has to keep playing
06:41the same game that he was playing when he was a faithful now that he's a traitor.
06:44And the game he was playing when he was a faithful was sitting down opposite you when
06:48you were eating and just looking at you, saying you're a traitor.
06:52So I don't think there was any way he could change up.
06:54But also, Amol wanted to be a traitor.
06:57And I think that is quite an interesting juxtaposition for James, because I know that
07:02when I went in, I really did not want to be a traitor.
07:05Are you serious?
07:05Yeah, absolutely not.
07:06Did you not want to be a traitor?
07:07No.
07:08And I was terrified I'd be recruited.
07:09I thought I'd have to say no.
07:11Yeah.
07:11Yeah, but you have no control over anything if you're a faithful.
07:14But that's sort of the challenge.
07:16I think for that...
07:18Well, you both lasted longer than I did.
07:21And he's still got his job, so taxi.
07:25I do want to know what a faithful Richard E. Grant would have been like.
07:28How would you have approached the game were you not selected by Claudia?
07:31I think it would have been much easier, because then you're not trying to second-guess everything
07:36all the time.
07:37But you are.
07:38But you are as a faithful as well, because you're also having to play the game where
07:42you're watching everything that you say, because there's still suspicion on everybody.
07:49Yeah, but there's that thing where if you know that you are a faithful, then surely that
07:54you feel that your truth-o-meter is going to somehow get you through.
07:58Whereas, if you're a liar and pants on fire like I was, you just, my brain was like,
08:05as you saw.
08:06I reckon you would have said you're a traitor anyway.
08:08Yeah.
08:09Yeah, that's a good point.
08:11I think you just wanted to be so badly, you would have just pretended you were.
08:15That's absolutely, that's true.
08:17So the game would have gone exactly the same?
08:20Either way.
08:21Yeah.
08:21Oh, that would have been very satisfying if you stood up at the end and said,
08:24I am a traitorous faithful.
08:28That would have been a good way.
08:31Then there would have been tears into their cocoa.
08:34That would have been even more iconic if you just claimed to be a traitor publicly.
08:38I think that's what he would have done.
08:41Okay, now this third episode included two roundtable banishments and will be bringing
08:46my harla out shortly.
08:47But before that, there's been a recruitment and Hannah is now a traitor.
08:52Tomorrow is a fresh start.
08:54And a bit of a reset.
08:55Yeah.
08:56Exciting though.
08:57New generation.
08:58It is.
08:59It is.
09:00It's changing a lot, this traitors.
09:01It's like the sugar vapes.
09:04But we've got your back.
09:05Okay.
09:06Good luck.
09:08What do we think of the decision to recruit Hannah, Frankie?
09:13I think they've obviously done it because there's been a bit of heat on her.
09:16And so I fear she might be thrown under the bus a little bit.
09:19That's not the impression I got as to why they wanted to recruit her.
09:22No, they didn't say that at all.
09:24But I think they might potentially use that.
09:28But on the other hand, she's clearly a brilliant brain.
09:31And therefore, I think her tactics as a traitor could be exceptional.
09:36The difficult thing is she is someone else who, in the chat with Claudia at the beginning
09:40of the game, said she wanted to be faithful.
09:43Yeah.
09:43So this is another traitor in the turret, along with James Acaster, who wanted to be faithful.
09:48Yes.
09:49He was now a traitor.
09:50So do you think that's something that maybe Myra and James should have considered when
09:54they chose to recruit Hannah?
09:55Because they could have recruited from anyone.
09:57It wasn't just the choice between Hannah and Jerry.
09:59It could have been anyone.
10:00And there still would have been no murder.
10:01And there still would have been that suspicion.
10:03Who do you think they should have recruited?
10:04Well, someone who really wanted to be a traitor.
10:06Someone like, I mean, it's everyone else, really, isn't it?
10:09Hannah obviously makes loads of sense because she is the biggest strategic brain in there.
10:14So, you know, she's gaming the maths and the probabilities.
10:17I think you go Bella, you go Julie.
10:21Julie's got heat on her anyway because of this most trustworthy thing.
10:24And Hannah looked quite nervous at breakfast, I thought.
10:27Yeah.
10:27The thing with Hannah as well is Hannah has already, before she was recruited,
10:31shared loads of these statistical theories and all of the things that she's doing as
10:36a faithful, her spreadsheets, you know, whether she sees groups of people together,
10:40whether they're traitors or not.
10:42She'll have to maintain that as a traitor, surely.
10:44She'll have to keep bringing these statistical theories.
10:46But it could be brilliant.
10:47If she can just evade the heat that will come over the next couple of days,
10:53then she could be really well placed to see it through.
10:56I think people are rapidly finding out that really the only way to find traitors
10:59is if the traitor announces they are a traitor in the bar.
11:03I tend to agree with you on that.
11:05I know you could be under something.
11:07And I want to thank you, Richard, for proving that point.
11:10Well, let's see how Hannah gets on in tomorrow's episode.
11:13But for now, I think you've waited long enough.
11:15My Harla will be here right after we see the moment she discovered
11:18the identities of the traitors.
11:28Thank you so much for joining us on Uncloaked.
11:35Thank you for having me.
11:36Sorry to see you leave so early, of course.
11:39Me too.
11:39The second player to be banished.
11:41Horrible.
11:42The first faithful to be banished.
11:43Ridiculous.
11:44Absolutely ridiculous.
11:45How are you feeling right now?
11:47Grateful, most of all.
11:49Grateful to have been on the show.
11:51Pissed.
11:53That I'm not in that castle.
11:56Now, my Harla, big moment.
11:58You're about to find out who the traitors actually are.
12:00But before I put you out your misery,
12:02I do want to know who are you thinking?
12:05Who do you think it is and why?
12:06I thought from the beginning, the traitors could be Julie, Rob, and randomly, Sharon.
12:16And then pretty soon after, I thought it could be Bella.
12:19And after, surely the recruitment, I thought it was Jerry.
12:25And who are your definite faithfuls?
12:27I think Maya's faithful.
12:30Just because she's so pretty and cute.
12:35I think Kenny's faithful.
12:37Yeah.
12:37He just has a faithful face, you know.
12:41I love doing it based on prettiness and face as well.
12:44That's so funny.
12:45Listen.
12:45What else have we got at this stage?
12:49Nada.
12:49Look, let's put you out your misery.
12:51Let's find out who the traitors are.
12:54Okay.
12:54I've got the scroll for you right here.
12:57How are you feeling before I hand this over?
12:59Sick.
12:59You almost don't want to take this off me.
13:01I can see it in your face.
13:02Not really.
13:02Can you do it?
13:03No, absolutely not.
13:04There you go.
13:05This is your moment.
13:11James A.
13:14Oh my God, it's so good.
13:17It's so good.
13:19Oh, it's so good.
13:21How are you feeling?
13:23Oh, bless him.
13:25I hope he wins.
13:26I hope he wins.
13:27I think he might win.
13:28He could really win.
13:29So he's doing a good job from your perspective.
13:31Heck yeah, he's doing a good job.
13:33He's coming off as so noble.
13:36Oh, it's genius.
13:38Right.
13:38Unfold the next bit, please.
13:42I'm getting scared.
13:45Hannah.
13:46Yeah.
13:46Duh.
13:47She's playing an incredible game.
13:49She's a very smart lady.
13:51She's the smartest person in the room.
13:54Well, you may notice there's another name to be revealed.
14:09Am I going to cry?
14:15I can't breathe.
14:16Oh my God.
14:20It's Maya, damn it.
14:22Oh, Maya and Hannah and James A.
14:26Clearly not too pretty to be a traitor.
14:28No, of course not.
14:30They're going to win, you know.
14:31You think it's a traitor's victory, this series.
14:34Yeah.
14:35Oh, now I'm thinking back, thinking, what could it have been?
14:38Who got recruited?
14:39Who got this?
14:39Who got that?
14:40I'm thinking.
14:40Yeah, we've lost you now, haven't we?
14:41Yeah, I'm out of the room, actually.
14:43I'm somewhere else.
14:44I'm in the castle.
14:45If you could summarize your time in the castle in three words,
14:48what would you say?
14:50Oh my God.
14:55Oh my God.
14:56Perfect.
14:57Absolutely perfect.
15:01And joining us in the studio now, it's Maihalla.
15:06Thanks for having me.
15:08Welcome.
15:09Maihalla, of course, reunited with Richard.
15:11I know, thank God.
15:12You were sure was a faithful.
15:14Seeing him for the first time since you found out he was a traitor,
15:16how does that feel?
15:17I was so excited to see you.
15:19I was so happy.
15:21It was amazing.
15:21I was like, oh my God, my best friend.
15:22And then I was like, I remembered in the midst,
15:26I was like, you little so-and-so.
15:29But I don't blame you at all.
15:31Because like, I would have done the same.
15:35Well, I think it surprised me when you voted for Richard.
15:38Yeah.
15:38Because you were so defensive of him at that very round table.
15:42Maihalla had no choice.
15:43I think you perhaps could have voted for someone else
15:45because that would have been consistent with what you were talking about.
15:48Yeah.
15:49Because it was part of your downfall.
15:50A hundred percent.
15:51Along with the big wink.
15:53Yeah.
15:55Yeah, the big wink.
15:58Super duper subtle.
16:00No, the switch of the vote was a hundred percent me literally anticipating being that wrong
16:10because I was so convinced.
16:12I was like, there's no way that he's a traitor and I'm not.
16:15That wouldn't be fair.
16:16Like, I was like, if he really is a traitor and he's duped me this crazy,
16:21I will hate myself for the rest of my life.
16:24It's like, how dare you be a traitor?
16:27Now, Maihalla, obviously you winked at Richard and a few people picked up on this,
16:31especially Julie.
16:34Maihalla winked at him as she put her thing up.
16:38Maihalla.
16:42It was traitor on traitor.
16:43I've had to do this to save my skin.
16:46I saw it.
16:47I don't know if anybody else saw it.
16:49It was a wink of, I've tried my best to defend you,
16:52but I have to throw you under the bus in order to survive.
16:55And I am so, so excited because I truly believe we can get two in a row.
17:03Julie's come to play this game.
17:05Yeah.
17:05Yeah.
17:06She's committed.
17:07Julia's going at a hundred miles an hour for episode one.
17:08I can't wait for her to be killed.
17:13She was right in the sense that you winked at Richard and you were saying,
17:17I've tried to defend you at this round table,
17:19but I'm going to have to vote for you.
17:20But you were doing that from the perspective of a faithful.
17:24That wink was, honest to God, outside of the game.
17:29That was just for Richard.
17:30It was like a kindred spirit.
17:33Like, I see you.
17:34This has been really fun.
17:36I have loved playing with you.
17:38I know you're about to be gone and I'll see you on the other side is what that was.
17:42I don't know if you got it, but that's what it was meant to be just for him.
17:46That's lovely.
17:47But yeah, like you say, in a room for people.
17:49Yeah, right.
17:51Before you wink, you need to say, this is a non-game wink.
17:54Right.
17:54Yeah, I should have.
17:55Just get away, but it doesn't mean anything.
17:56Everyone ignore this.
17:58Everyone ignore this.
17:59Send it as a post-it.
18:00Yeah, I should have.
18:01Charlotte, in the castle,
18:02do you automatically think anything like a wink is suspicious?
18:05I mean, of course, like as soon as you did it, I was just like,
18:08oh, no, what are you doing, babes?
18:10Can you imagine if Ross had been winked at?
18:14He would have fell off his chair.
18:15He'd been a jelly.
18:16Oh, my God.
18:17He would have left.
18:18He would have got off and left.
18:20She winked at me.
18:21She winked at me.
18:22What does it mean?
18:23He would have looked like it was a big murder.
18:25He would have dropped dead, bless her.
18:27Oh, my.
18:28Did you pick up on the wink, Richard?
18:30Did you get all of the emotion in that wink?
18:32Yeah, I did, because we were twinned instantly the moment we met.
18:36Like, we're homies.
18:36Yeah, yeah.
18:37We get each other.
18:39This is obviously a game of relationships when you get in there,
18:42forming relationships, but also pre-existing relationships,
18:44certainly with the celebrity game.
18:46Did either of you two know anyone else before you went in there?
18:50I didn't.
18:51You didn't know anybody.
18:52I knew of Bella, and obviously I knew of you.
18:55What about you, Richard?
18:56We know, obviously, you knew Jerry before going in.
18:58Jerry, I'd met James Blunt, I'd met Michael Sheen,
19:00and I had obviously watched Mahala in industry a lot.
19:06So, and I'd been on James Acaster and Ramesh's podcast.
19:12It's my podcast, actually, Richard.
19:13Oh.
19:14Sorry, your podcast.
19:16Yes.
19:16I mean, it's not often I'm mistaken for Ramesh Ranganathan.
19:22How do you reflect on your time playing the game, Mahala?
19:24I'm really glad I met Richard, made a new friend.
19:27I made so many friends.
19:30It was, like, one of the most difficult things I've ever done,
19:34and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
19:37And, Richard, despite your early exit,
19:39you got to play your dream role of being a traitor.
19:42How did you find that experience?
19:44Unique.
19:51I love that now is the time you've chosen to say very little.
19:56Well, we've run out of time here,
19:58but the chat continues on BBC Sounds in our extra bonus episode.
20:01We've got so much more to get into,
20:03including Richard's thoughts on his replacement in the turret, Hannah.
20:05It's all in the bonus episode of the Celebrity Traitors
20:08Uncloaked in your BBC Sounds app right now.
20:10You can find that in your app store or scan the QR code on the screen now.
20:14We'll be back again tomorrow night after episode four,
20:16where I'll be joined by celebrity traitor hunter Joe Mahler
20:19and traitor Wilf from series one
20:20to unpack all the latest goings-on in the castle.
20:23Plus, we'll hear from either Bash, Bella or James Blunt,
20:26whoever the traitors decide to murder from their current shortlist.
20:28A massive thanks to Charlotte, Frankie, Myhala and Richard for joining me.
20:32I'm Ed Gamble.
20:32Stay faithful.
21:00I'm Ed Gamble.
21:03You
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