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00:00Hello and welcome to the Celebrity Traitors Uncloaked, the official video podcast hosted
00:04by me, Ed Gamble. This episode is full of spoilers from episode three of the Celebrity
00:08Traitors. It would be a real shame if we ruined it for you, so head to BBC iPlayer now to
00:13catch
00:13up, then come back here to join us. Now we've got that out of the way, I can safely say
00:17that
00:17I didn't think we'd be playing this so soon into the series. You heard it right, that's
00:24the traitor's siren, and that's because our first traitor has been caught. Richard has
00:28made UK Traitors history by being banished at the first round table, and I cannot wait
00:33to chat to him all about that. Coming up, Celebrity Faithful Charlotte Church and Frankie from Series
00:383 are here to unpack everything from this jam-packed episode. Our first traitor of the series, Richard
00:43E. Grant, will be with us in the studio, and Faithful Myhala will be here to discuss her
00:48banishment and her time playing the game. Plus, we'll see the moment she found out who the
00:52traitor's work. Here we are, Richard, Charlotte, Frankie, welcome to the show. Now, Richard,
01:02we've got a lot to talk about. First of all, congratulations, you've made UK Traitors history
01:07by being banished at the first round table as a traitor. How are you feeling now some time's
01:12passed?
01:13Well, Joseph Stalin also made history. Pre-empt what people are going to be saying to me.
01:19But it was so iconic, Richard. Honestly, the reaction to it has been amazing. I think people
01:23absolutely loved you in the castle. Okay, Ed. I was just really hoping you were going to
01:29get away with it. It seemed like you were about to. It really did. And then your defence wasn't
01:36great, was it? There was no defence whatsoever. When I walked into the bar, I was in such
01:42a state of genuine shock that I had no memory that it was Joe Lysett who'd asked me that
01:48question. And, you know, when he asked me, I thought it was like that I Spartacus moment
01:53when somebody says, are you a traitor? And he says, well, yeah, of course I am.
01:55We could play that out for you now, Richard, if you want. If you say you're a traitor, then
01:58we'll all join in and say that we're traitors as well. Are you a traitor?
02:01Yes, I'm a traitor. Are you a traitor?
02:03Yes, I'm a traitor. I am a traitor.
02:05I am a traitor. I am a traitor. That's the only time I got to say it.
02:09Oh, that's how it should have gone. That's how it should have gone.
02:12It was a very bold tactic, admitting that you're a traitor in front of everyone.
02:16Ed, you brought up the word tactic. There was no tactic. It was my 69th birthday present.
02:21And when Claudia tapped me on the shoulder, I thought, yes, I won the best birthday present
02:25at all until the bingo thing of everybody writes your name down.
02:29Talk us through that moment, though, when you said, yes, I am a traitor. And then when asked
02:33again, you said, I'm a traitor.
02:36What are you?
02:37Traitor.
02:43You're what?
02:44Traitor.
02:45He's a traitor.
02:46Are you?
02:47Yeah.
02:48Right.
02:51What's the point of being in the game if you're not?
02:54You know?
02:55Right.
02:56Okay.
02:57It's an interesting angle.
02:59Yeah.
03:01What was happening in your brain when that happened?
03:03Okay.
03:04You will know from being on it that the round table bits, by the time that Claudia has walked
03:08around four times, you think, well, by that point, there's no chance now.
03:12So I was really feeling, oh, what have I done?
03:15You know, I'm going to have to be faithful.
03:17And when she tapped me on the shoulder, I thought, don't show any emotion at all, whatsoever.
03:21Yeah.
03:22And, you know, you try your best not to.
03:24But, of course, Miranda Hart sitting Miss Marbling right next to me.
03:27I think she said she immediately could feel the vibrations of joy coming at you.
03:33Blindful.
03:34You know, I have no idea.
03:35I found watching it, it was like, what, it was like, you were so childlike and joyful
03:41that actually you just couldn't contain it.
03:43You couldn't stop smiling.
03:45You were like the cat who got the cream.
03:47The joy was literally just, like, emanating.
03:50You were so happy.
03:51Just straight after the round table, the broadest smile.
03:53Even after you'd said it and you got into the turret for the first time.
03:56Yeah.
03:56There's a moment where you are bolt upright and you start jiggling up and down.
04:00Just pure excitement.
04:01It's amazing.
04:02Poor Maya.
04:03You know, she had to contend with this.
04:05And, of course, she stabbed me right, you know, hung, drawn and caught it.
04:08I stupidly thought when we chose James Acaster, because I thought his coffin statement where
04:13he was saying he was really going to stand by me, of course, it never crossed my mind at
04:17this moment of sheer panic that he would be the last person that would say anything to
04:21support me whatsoever, because he would dob himself in.
04:24Yeah.
04:24Of course, he didn't.
04:25It's one of my favourite moments in Trader's history when you've admitted that and you
04:29go and Joe and Rob are talking and they say, we should share this with the group.
04:33And Jerry's watched everything happen and just goes, share what?
04:37Share what?
04:37But he just really wanted to be one.
04:40One of my favourite moments when Jerry said that she was very competitive and she won the
04:44teenage leg wrestling competition in Texas.
04:47Well, we don't know what the missions are going to be like later on in the series.
04:50Maybe there'll be some leg wrestling happening.
04:51Now, Richard, very intense roundtable, but you kept the group guessing right until the very
04:56end.
04:59Thank you for having me and for giving me an almost bingo full house of votes.
05:05I have always wanted to be a traitor, as you know.
05:10And sometimes in life, your dreams do come true, and sometimes they don't.
05:21I am a unfaithful traitor.
05:43Thanks, Maya.
05:45Good one there.
05:46It's such a wonderful moment, because normally in that moment in the show, you see everyone
05:51round the roundtable and they're like, oh God, I hope we're right.
05:53I don't know if we're right or not.
05:54Every single face there is like, yeah, we know it is.
05:58There's no nerves.
05:59The bunker gives them the information right up front, you know.
06:02Frankie, everyone voted for Richard apart from three players, which are Joanne Jerry
06:06and James Blunt.
06:07Did you expect so many people to go for him at that roundtable?
06:11No, because I think I probably just would have wanted you just to stay in.
06:15I was surprised.
06:16There could have been an agreement amongst the faithful to maybe go, look, we know it's
06:20Richard, he said it's him, so let's just keep him in for a little bit longer.
06:24Yes, maybe kind of like, we've got one in the bag.
06:27Yeah, we've got one.
06:27Let him have, you know, let's focus on some others for a bit.
06:30Yeah.
06:31So we've discussed it, but James and Maya, your fellow traitors, voted for you.
06:35Were you surprised by that in the moment or did you think it was inevitable?
06:38I thought that Maya would definitely stab me because I put her in an absolutely untenable
06:44position.
06:44So I perfectly understood because I would do that.
06:47But I was so convinced by James Acaster's determination not to kill me off when he gave his big plea
06:56in the church after Amol, that I naively thought, oh, well, you know, maybe James, because he's
07:02so trustworthy, he would come through for me.
07:04And then, of course, when I watched it, I thought not one word came out of James' mouth
07:09to support me.
07:11When I watched him give that plea and him saying, oh, I'm going to defend you, Richard.
07:15You knew?
07:16Oh, there was not a single part of me that thought he's going to do that.
07:19Did you think Amol had a better argument?
07:21They both had similar arguments.
07:23Yeah.
07:23But I think Amol might be more likely to have actually gone in and tried to save you.
07:29I do.
07:30And get in amongst it.
07:30No, I think he would have done.
07:31But James is very hot on playing this game of he's been recruited, so he has to keep playing
07:36the same game that he was playing when he was a faithful now that he's a traitor.
07:39Yeah.
07:39And the game he was playing when he was a faithful was sitting down opposite you when you were
07:43eating and just looking at you, saying you're a traitor.
07:46So I don't think there was any way he could change up.
07:49But also, Amol wanted to be a traitor, and I think that is quite an interesting juxtaposition
07:54for James, because I know that when I went in, I really did not want to be a traitor.
07:59Are you serious?
08:00Yeah, absolutely not.
08:01Did you not want to be a traitor?
08:02No.
08:02And I was terrified I'd be recruited.
08:04I thought I'd have to say no.
08:06Yeah.
08:06Yeah, but you have no control over anything if you're a faithful.
08:09But that's sort of the challenge.
08:11I think for that...
08:13Well, you both lasted longer than I did.
08:15James Gamble's still got his job, so taxi.
08:20I do want to know what a faithful Richard E. Grant would have been like.
08:23How would you have approached the game were you not selected by Claudia?
08:26I think it would have been much easier, because then you're not trying to second-guess everything
08:31all the time.
08:32But you are.
08:33But you are as a faithful as well, because you're also having to play the game where
08:37you're watching everything that you say, because there's still suspicion on everybody.
08:43Yeah, but there's that thing where if you know that you are a faithful, then surely
08:49that you feel that your truth-o-meter is going to somehow get you through, whereas if you're
08:55a liar and pants on fire like I was, you're just...
08:58My brain was like...
09:01I reckon you would have said you're a traitor anyway if you'd be a faithful.
09:04Yeah, that's a good point.
09:06I think you just wanted to...
09:07I think that's absolutely right.
09:08I think you wanted to be so badly, you would have just pretended you were.
09:10That's absolutely...
09:11That's true.
09:11So the game would have gone exactly the same?
09:15Either way.
09:16Oh, that would have been very satisfying if you stood up at the end and said,
09:18I am a traitorous faithful.
09:23That would have been a good way.
09:25Then there would have been tears into their cocoa.
09:29That would have been even more iconic if you just claimed to be a traitor publicly.
09:33Can we go back?
09:33I think that's what he would have done.
09:36Okay, now this third episode included two roundtable banishments and we'll be bringing
09:41my harla out shortly.
09:42But before that, there's been a recruitment and Hannah is now a traitor.
09:47Tomorrow is a fresh start and a bit of a reset.
09:50Yeah.
09:50Exciting though.
09:52New generation.
09:53It is.
09:54It is.
09:54It's changing a lot, this trailer.
09:56It's like the sugar vapes.
09:58But we've got you back.
10:00Okay.
10:01Good luck.
10:03What do we think of the decision to recruit Hannah, Frankie?
10:07I think they've obviously done it because there's been a bit of heat on her and so I fear she
10:12might
10:12be thrown under the bus a little bit.
10:13That's not the impression I got as to why they wanted to recruit her.
10:17No, they didn't say that at all.
10:18But I think they might potentially use that.
10:22But on the other hand, she's clearly a brilliant brain and therefore it's, you know, I think
10:28her tactics as a traitor could be exceptional.
10:31The difficult thing is, is she is someone else who in the chat with Claudia at the beginning
10:35of the game said she wanted to be faithful.
10:38Yeah.
10:38So this is another traitor in the turret along with James Acaster who wanted to be faithful.
10:43Yes.
10:43He was now a traitor.
10:44So do you think that's something that maybe Maya and James should have considered when
10:48they chose to recruit Hannah?
10:50Because they could have recruited from anyone.
10:51It wasn't just the choice between Hannah and Jerry.
10:54It could have been anyone and there still would have been no murder and there still would have
10:57been that suspicion.
10:58Who do you think they should have recruited?
10:59Well, someone who really wanted to be a traitor.
11:01Someone like, I mean, it's everyone else really, isn't it?
11:04Hannah obviously makes loads of sense because she is the biggest strategic brain in there.
11:09So if, you know, she's gaming the maths and the probabilities.
11:11Yeah.
11:12I think you go Bella, you go Julie.
11:15Julie's got heat on her anyway because of this most trustworthy thing.
11:19And Hannah looked quite nervous at breakfast, I thought.
11:22Yeah.
11:22The thing with Hannah as well is Hannah has already, before she was recruited, shared loads
11:27of these statistical theories and all of the things that she's doing as a faithful.
11:31Her spreadsheets, you know, whether she sees groups of people together, whether they're
11:35traitors or not.
11:37She'll have to maintain that as a traitor, surely.
11:39She'll have to keep bringing these statistical theories.
11:41But it could be brilliant.
11:42If she can just evade the heat that will come over the next couple of days, then she could
11:48be really well placed to see it through.
11:51I think people are rapidly finding out that really the only way to find traitors is if
11:54the traitor announces they are a traitor in the bar.
11:57I tend to agree with you on that.
12:00I think you could be under something.
12:01And I want to thank you, Richard, for proving that point.
12:04Well, let's see how Hannah gets on in tomorrow's episode.
12:08But for now, I think you've waited long enough.
12:10My Hala will be here right after we see the moment she discovered the identities of the
12:14traitors.
12:22Welcome.
12:23Welcome, my Hannah.
12:24It was sliding in.
12:28Thank you so much for joining us on Uncloaked.
12:30Thank you for having me.
12:31Sorry to see you leave so early, of course.
12:34Me too.
12:34The second player to be banished.
12:36Horrible.
12:36The first faithful to be banished.
12:38Ridiculous.
12:39Absolutely ridiculous.
12:40How are you feeling right now?
12:43Grateful, most of all.
12:44Grateful to have been on the show.
12:46Pissed.
12:48That I'm not in that castle.
12:50Now, my Hala, big moment.
12:52You're about to find out who the traitors actually are.
12:54But before I put you out your misery, I do want to know, who are you thinking?
13:00Who do you think it is and why?
13:02I thought from the beginning, the traitors could be Julie, Rob, and randomly, Sharon.
13:11And then pretty soon after, I thought it could be Bella.
13:15And after, surely, the recruitment, I thought it was Jerry.
13:20And who are your definite faithfuls?
13:22I think Maya's faithful.
13:25Just because she's so pretty and cute.
13:30I think Kenny's faithful.
13:31Yeah.
13:32He just has a faithful face, you know.
13:35I love doing it based on prettiness and face as well.
13:38Listen.
13:39That's so funny.
13:39Listen, what else have we got at this stage?
13:44Nada.
13:44Look, let's put you out your misery.
13:46Let's find out who the traitors are.
13:48Okay.
13:49I've got the scroll for you right here.
13:52How are you feeling before I hand this over?
13:53Sick.
13:54You almost don't want to take this off me.
13:55I can see it in your face.
13:56Not really.
13:57Can you do it?
13:57No, absolutely not.
13:59There you go.
14:00This is your moment.
14:05James A.
14:09Oh, my God, it's so good.
14:12It's so good.
14:14Oh, it's so good.
14:16How are you feeling?
14:18Oh, bless him.
14:20I hope he wins.
14:21I hope he wins.
14:22I think he might win.
14:23He could really win.
14:24So he's doing a good job from your perspective?
14:26Heck yeah, he's doing a good job.
14:28He's coming off as so noble.
14:31Oh, it's genius.
14:33Right.
14:33Unfold the next bit, please.
14:36I'm getting scared.
14:40Hannah, yeah, duh.
14:42She's playing an incredible game.
14:44She's a very smart lady.
14:46She's the smartest person in the room.
14:49Well, you may notice there's another name to be revealed.
15:03Am I going to cry?
15:10I can't breathe.
15:11Oh, my God.
15:15It's Maya, damn it.
15:17Oh, Maya and Hannah and James A.
15:21Clearly not too pretty to be a traitor.
15:23No, of course not.
15:25They're going to win, you know.
15:26You think it's a traitor's victory, this series?
15:29Yeah.
15:30Oh, now I'm thinking back, thinking, what could it have been?
15:33Who got recruited?
15:34Who got this?
15:34Who got that?
15:35I'm thinking.
15:35Yeah, we've lost you now, haven't we?
15:36Yeah, I'm out of the room, actually.
15:38I'm somewhere else.
15:39I'm in the castle.
15:40If you could summarize your time in the castle in three words, what would you say?
15:46Oh, my God.
15:50Oh, my God.
15:51Perfect.
15:52Absolutely perfect.
15:56And joining us in the studio now, it's Maihalla.
16:01Thanks for having me.
16:02Welcome.
16:04Maihalla, of course, reunited with Richard.
16:06I know, thank God.
16:07You were sure was a faithful, seeing him for the first time since you found out he was
16:11a traitor.
16:11How does that feel?
16:12I was so excited to see you.
16:14I was so happy.
16:15It was amazing.
16:16I was like, oh, my God, my best friend.
16:17And then I was like, I remembered in the midst, I was like, you little so-and-so.
16:24But I don't blame you at all.
16:26Because, like, I would have done the same.
16:30Well, I think it surprised me when you voted for Richard.
16:33Yeah.
16:33Because you were so defensive of him at that very round table.
16:37And Maihalla had no choice.
16:38I think you perhaps could have voted for someone else because that would have been consistent
16:41with what you were talking about.
16:43Yeah.
16:43Because it was part of your downfall.
16:45A hundred percent.
16:46Along with the big wink.
16:48Yeah.
16:50Yeah, the big wink.
16:52Super duper subtle.
16:55No, the switch of the vote was a hundred percent.
17:00Me literally anticipating being that wrong because I was so convinced.
17:06I was like, there's no way that he's a traitor and I'm not.
17:10That wouldn't be fair.
17:11Like, I was like, if he really is a traitor and he's duped me this crazy,
17:16I will hate myself for the rest of my life.
17:19It's like, how dare you be a traitor?
17:21Now, Maihalla, obviously, you winked at Richard and a few people picked up on this,
17:25especially Julie.
17:29Maihalla winked at him as she put her thing up.
17:33Maihalla.
17:37It was traitor on traitor.
17:39I've had to do this to save my skin.
17:41I saw it.
17:42I don't know if anybody else saw it.
17:43It was a wink of, I've tried my best to defend you,
17:47but I have to throw you under the bus in order to survive.
17:50And I am so, so excited because I truly believe we can get two in a row.
17:57I am.
17:58Julie's come to play this game.
18:00Yeah.
18:00Yeah.
18:00She's committed.
18:01Julie is going at 100 miles an hour for episode one.
18:03I can't wait for her to be killed.
18:08She was right in the sense that you winked at Richard and you were saying,
18:12I've tried to defend you at this round table, but I'm going to have to vote for you.
18:15But you were doing that from the perspective of a faithful.
18:18That wink was, honest to God, outside of the game.
18:24That was just for Richard.
18:25It was like a kindred spirit.
18:28Like, I see you.
18:29Yeah.
18:29This has been really fun.
18:31Oh.
18:31I have loved playing with you.
18:33I know you're about to be gone and I'll see you on the other side, is what that was.
18:37I don't know if you got it, but that's what it was meant to be just for him.
18:41That's lovely.
18:41But yeah, like you say, in a room for people.
18:44Yeah, right.
18:45You can't, before you wink, you need to say, this is a non-game wink.
18:48Right.
18:49Yeah, I should have.
18:50Just get away, but it doesn't mean anything.
18:51Everyone ignore this.
18:52Yeah.
18:53Everyone ignore this.
18:54Send it as a post-it.
18:55Yeah, I should have.
18:56Charlotte, in the castle, do you automatically think anything like a wink is suspicious?
19:00I mean, of course.
19:01Like, as soon as you did it, I was just like, oh, no.
19:04Are you too in pain?
19:05Can you imagine if Ross had been winked at?
19:08Oh, he would have fell off his chair.
19:10He would have been a jelly.
19:11Oh, my God.
19:12He would have left.
19:13He would have got off and left.
19:15She winked at me.
19:16She winked at me.
19:16What does it mean?
19:17He would have literally thought it was a wink murder and, like, peeled over.
19:20He would have dropped dead, bless his heart.
19:22Oh, my.
19:23Did you pick up on the wink, Richard?
19:25Did you get all of the emotion in that wink?
19:27Yeah, I did.
19:28Because we were twinned instantly the moment we met.
19:30Like, we're homies.
19:31Yeah, yeah.
19:32We get each other.
19:33This is obviously a game of relationships when you get in there, forming relationships,
19:37but also pre-existing relationships, certainly with a celebrity game.
19:41Did either of you two know anyone else before you went in there?
19:45I didn't.
19:46You didn't know anybody.
19:46I knew of Bella and, obviously, I knew of you.
19:50What about you, Richard?
19:50We know, obviously, you knew Jerry before going in there.
19:53I knew Jerry.
19:53I'd met James Blunt.
19:54I'd met Michael Sheen.
19:57And I had, obviously, watched Mahala in industry a lot.
20:01So, and I'd been on James Acaster and Ramesh's podcast.
20:06It's my podcast, actually, Richard.
20:08Oh.
20:08Sorry, your podcast.
20:12I mean, it's not often I'm mistaken for Ramesh Ranganathan.
20:17How do you reflect on your time playing the game, Mahala?
20:19I'm really glad I met Richard, made a new friend.
20:22I made so many friends.
20:24It was, like, one of the most difficult things I've ever done, and I would do it again in
20:31a heartbeat.
20:31And, Richard, despite your early exit, you got to play your dream role of being a traitor.
20:37How did you find that experience?
20:39Unique.
20:45I love that now is the time you've chosen to say very little.
20:49Yes.
20:51Well, we've run out of time here, but the chat continues on BBC Sounds in our extra bonus episode.
20:56We've got so much more to get into, including Richard's thoughts on his replacement in the
20:59turret, Hannah.
21:00It's all in the bonus episode of the Celebrity Traitors Uncloaked in your BBC Sounds app
21:04right now.
21:05You can find that in your app store or scan the QR code on the screen now.
21:08We'll be back again tomorrow night after episode four, where I'll be joined by celebrity
21:12traitor hunter Joe Mahler and traitor Wilf from series one to unpack all the latest goings
21:17on in the castle.
21:18Plus, we'll hear from either Bash, Bella or James Blunt, whoever the traitors decide to
21:22murder from their current shortlist.
21:23A massive thanks to Charlotte, Frankie, Mahala and Richard for joining me.
21:26I'm Ed Gamble.
21:27Stay faithful.
21:28Thank you so much.
21:56That was so wonderful.