00:07Wszelkie prawa zastrzeżone.
00:08Let's talk about the security situation facing Europe right now.
00:11In your eyes, who or what is Belgium's biggest threat?
00:15Russia.
00:16Can you expand on that?
00:19Russia.
00:19Air attack, air attack, air attack.
00:23So, this is the biggest threat.
00:25So we need air defense, air defense, air defense.
00:28We need Ukrainian technology to get to the European continent as soon as possible,
00:34and to Belgium as well, to NATO, to fight those jet-powered drones that come at 600 kilometers
00:41an hour.
00:42And we don't have too much.
00:44So, yes, we need really air defense.
00:47We need to scale up our air defenses.
00:49We need to have more stocks, more production, scale-up production, industrial base, and large
00:55industrial base.
00:57Everything has to go faster.
00:59And then again, yeah, hybrid threat, of course.
01:01There will be more hybrid threat actions.
01:03Next coming months, it will be a dark winter for Europe.
01:07Let's talk about the hybrid threats.
01:09Rewind 12 months ago, Belgium was seemingly inundated with drones.
01:14But it's my understanding that the Belgian Federal Prosecutor's Office is still determining
01:18roughly where 40 of these drones come from.
01:21What conclusion do you draw from this incident?
01:23Who is to blame here?
01:25Well, that is the definition of hybrid warfare.
01:28It's very difficult to find the actor when you don't find the instrument, the drone, or
01:33the pilot who is doing this.
01:35So, in Neipzig, the drones didn't explode.
01:38So, the German intelligence service could really work on those elements, on those systems.
01:44And they detected 100% sure, certain that it was Russia that was behind this hybrid attack
01:51on the Antonov airplane of NATO.
01:55So, yes, I'm looking in the same direction.
01:59But it's really difficult to have the proof.
02:02They're very, very smart.
02:03Hybrid warfare is not something that Russia is starting since two or three years.
02:08They're doing this for 50 years.
02:10This is something that Putin was really very good at.
02:13So, yeah, this is something that they have a lot of expertise in hybrid warfare.
02:17What has Belgium learnt in the years since this incident occurred?
02:22You talk about drones, but what technology or capabilities has Belgium put on the ground
02:28to protect citizens and those assets that we mentioned earlier?
02:31So, we bought a lot of counter-drone systems that are operational as we speak.
02:37And then we have an innovative partnership that has been launched for 1 billion euro.
02:44so we can always adapt and follow the trends.
02:48Because technology is going so fastly that we really need to follow the trends.
02:52And I don't want to have 200,000 drones somewhere in a stock
03:00where in two months you cannot even use them because they're outdated.
03:04So, we have to adapt.
03:05So, I want to have a partnership with our beautiful enterprises, Belgium, European, also American,
03:12to have, or maybe even Turkish, because they have very, very good drone systems,
03:18to, as soon as possible, have an innovative partnership that follows all the time the trends.
03:25Also, with Ukrainian engineering, with Ukraine as battlefields,
03:28we will normally conclude it by the end of the year.
03:31So, we're in the final phase.
03:32So, just speaking on drones once again, in a wide-ranging interview with the Flemish broadcaster,
03:37Robert Brovdy, who heads up Ukraine's Drone Defence Department,
03:42he told Belgium to take off its, quote, rose-tinted glasses
03:46and that Belgium, because it hosts NATO, the EU institutions and EuroClear,
03:52which is the financial institution that holds a big chunk of Russia's immobilised assets,
03:57this is what makes Belgium vulnerable.
04:00Do you think that you're doing enough to protect the country from these incursions?
04:03Do you share his assessment?
04:05I'm ministered for 19 months.
04:07We didn't, we were neglecting, we were like the worst pupil of NATO class.
04:11We had 1% GDP in defence.
04:14We are founding father of NATO, we're founding father of EU Belgium.
04:17So, I think that we always were there for diplomacy, for soft power,
04:24but when we talked hard power in Belgium, everybody was looking at the other direction.
04:29So, we didn't want to face reality.
04:32So, now we doubled the budget, we have the 2%.
04:35I know that we need to do more, but it's quite a process.
04:41We're investing highly, we're doing so much, what I cannot do in 18 months.
04:46I'm minister, I cannot do it in 18 months, what has been neglected for 40 years.
04:50Now Belgium is back again, but it takes time.
04:54I think that's, it's going in the right direction.
04:57Have we already all the capabilities that I want to have? No.
05:03It takes time also. Industry cannot follow.
05:05When I'm buying Patriots, I have to wait 10 years to get them.
05:08So, it is, we're in a very difficult position at this moment.
05:15Europe has been very good in investing in soft power, in social security,
05:20and it's beautiful to have a pension system, to have social welfare systems.
05:25When somebody's got sick, when somebody's lost his job, we have everything.
05:30But when there's war or when there's hybrid threats, we don't, we have anything.
05:35So, yeah, we were in a really difficult position and Belgium was a really bad pupil in the past.
05:40We're trying to step up. We have a stable government and trying to do what we need to do.
05:46Of course. And it's my understanding that NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte will be here today.
05:51What would you communicate to him about your plans to get Belgium on that 3.5% of GDP core
05:57defense spending target?
05:58Because, as you rightly pointed out, Belgium is not there yet.
06:01Two things. I think that's NATO capability targets will be.
06:07Normally, we have new NATO capability targets in 29.
06:11I think that we need an update sooner and faster.
06:15I think it's too slow.
06:17I think that's the things that Belgium needs to buy from NATO are not the things that will be useful
06:23when there's war.
06:24I'm afraid. So that is one thing that we need to talk about within NATO.
06:28And on Belgian budget, we have the worst budget of EU.
06:32We have the biggest, highest debt of EU.
06:34We're talking about the budget as we speak.
06:37But saying that Belgium will meet the 5% tomorrow, we won't.
06:41We have 3.5%. We have the 2% core spending, 1.5% broader spending on security issues.
06:47So we have 7 out of 10.
06:50When my girl comes home, she's 17 from school and she has a 7 out of 10.
06:54That's not too bad.
06:56But I know that the most difficult is the 1.5% core defense spending that we still need to
07:01do.
07:01So, yes, I'm working on it very, very hard. Believe me.
07:05One final question.
07:07Do you think the Prime Minister is receptive to your lobbying efforts to boost the defense budget?
07:12But my Prime Minister Bartu Bever is a very strong leader and he's a very intelligent guy.
07:19So he knows what's happening in the world.
07:21And he's telling me, yes, I know.
07:23And I'm asking for more money.
07:26He knows.
07:26But he's not alone in the government.
07:29Belgium is a federal country with five political parties in the government.
07:32You have the Dutch speaking, the French speaking.
07:35That is not always the same in Belgium.
07:36Quite interesting country we have.
07:39So it will be difficult.
07:42But I'm pushing for this.
07:43And Bart is pro-defense.
07:45100%.
07:45So, yeah.
07:46He knows.
07:47But he's the Prime Minister.
07:49You know, he has to make the compromise.
07:51Yeah, I guess he's the boss.
07:52Thank you so much, Defense Minister, for taking the time to talk to us.
07:54Thank you.
07:55Thank you.
07:55Thank you.
07:56Thank you.
07:56Thank you.
07:57Thank you.
07:57Thank you.
