- 50 minutes ago
Nara Lokesh said he chose the education portfolio to contribute at scale. He stressed exam reforms, AI and quantum courses, and a 20-lakh jobs target. He backed proportional representation in delimitation and flagged AP's low fertility rate of 1.5.
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00:00Ladies and gentlemen to the India Today South Conclave here in the lovely city of Kochi
00:05where we are joined by a very special guest someone who represents the
00:09gen next of leaders in this country. His father is the senior most chief minister
00:17that India has at the moment and he is seen as the face of the future. Please welcome
00:22the Telugu Desim leader Nara Lokesh, minister for HRD, IT, electronics and communications
00:28and real-time governance. Good to have you Lokesh on the show. I want to start by two
00:35hot button topics which are resonating nationally not just in Andhra Pradesh but
00:39across the country. The first is the election commission. Where does the TDP
00:45stand because immediately after when this entire election commission issue blew up
00:52your leader of the Lok Sabha who's probably here said that the EC should clarify
00:58in the interest of transparency. Now it seems all is well. The TDP seems to have
01:05suddenly no problem with the EC. Where does the TDP stand? Do you believe that Gyanesh
01:11Kumar ji should step down as the rest of the opposition is demanding?
01:16Thank you very much for having me in the session and I love the first question. It is a hot
01:22topic. I believe that there is responsibility on the people also who are questioning the system.
01:29Now you see a lot of political parties also questioning regarding SAR. As a political party, the Telugu
01:36Desim party has always sought clarifications on various subjects related to SAR in opposition even
01:44when we are in power. In fact as recently as about a year back we sought a lot of clarification
01:49because we
01:50also went through our own SAR process. So is the system perfect? Absolutely not. There are areas of
01:56improvement like any system is. But is the intent there to make it better to resolve the issues that
02:02need resolution? That is in place. So as a party we've seen the letter that the election commission has put
02:08out. We believe that is in order and as we go forward we will give our input on how to
02:14make it even better.
02:14Now the fact that over 13 crore voters as of today don't don't find themselves on the draft roll. Some
02:22of them may have passed away. Some of them may have shifted residence. But isn't that a whopping number?
02:27Should that not concern you that this exercise perhaps has been carried in a manner whatever the
02:32intentions in a manner that leaves a lot of scope put out and suspicion on the seemingly neutral umpire?
02:39If you look at it, maximum number of votes were also deleted in Gujarat. In Andhra Pradesh,
02:44we went through our SAR process. 92% of the votes got mapped. We did that. We were very active.
02:51As a
02:51political party we were very active in the field. We have our booth in charges. It is an activity that
02:57the election commission along with the BLOs, BLAs of all political parties, they work together and they
03:03work on mapping it. See if you look at it in this SAR, our votes were in Hyderabad in 2002
03:09because we were
03:10a combined state. So we had to submit documents. We had to submit documents. We did it. We were able
03:15to map ourselves like that. Everyone can and in Andhra Pradesh we have done it. So you don't agree
03:19with the Rahul Gandhi view that the EC is working at the behest of the BJP or the UPA or
03:25the NDA
03:25leadership that the Gyanesh Kumar Ji has been put there as a hatchet man to ensure that every
03:32election is won by the BJP according to him irrespective of anti-incumbency.
03:37He won elections in Kerala, Karnataka, Talangana. So there there is no role of SIR. If you lose
03:47there is a role of SIR. I mean where is your organization to even look at votes? Where votes
03:52are getting added? Have you done any homework? Where is your booth level organization? In
03:57absence of it you are blaming the election commission? You know let me ask you a slightly
04:02contentious question. It seems where you stand in politics depends on where you sit. Your father
04:07Chandra Babu Naiduji was in alliance with the Congress in 2019. There is a tweet of him which
04:11still stands where he said that the EC is destroying democracy along with the BJP. Now today you are
04:18coming out in defense of the EC and the BJP. It seems in Indian politics where you stand depends on
04:22where you sit. In our case we believe based on facts and data. Our belief system is quite clear.
04:30Thanks could not have been different location 2019 to 2026.
04:34But we continue to fight. Who said we don't? We have expressed our opinions. We have gone to
04:38election commission multiple times. We have stated that you know SIR should be done in a certain way.
04:43We have our opinion at the table. We continue to voice our opinion. Who said that our opinion has
04:49disappeared on it? So I want to understand what is the TDP's role? Are you a constructive
04:54critic within the government? Do you all have a voice within the government? Because one perception
04:59is this government is a one and a half man show that the allies no longer really matter. Do you
05:03all
05:03matter? I found it interesting for example before the monsoon session many of your TDP MPs reportedly
05:09objected to the Viksit Bharat education bill for example which was then pulled back. On work board you
05:14all gave various suggestions. What is the TDP stand within the NDA? Are you completely committed to the
05:20BJP and Narendra Modi ji or are you all constructive critics within this framework?
05:25We are an ally of NDA. We have an opinion on a subject. We will voice it within the four
05:31walls.
05:32And similarly the work of bill went to JPC. We gave our input. In various other matters we have
05:38given our input and we will continue to do it. We will continue to play a role in the NDA
05:43government.
05:44We will continue to give our feedback to the government. So you are very clear that when the opposition
05:48calls for the impeachment of the CEC, when the opposition starts says that they are going to
05:53have a jailbaro andolan or street-wide protest, TDP will stand firmly by the Narendra Modi government
06:01on this issue. You don't see that the BJP has tried to game the system or fix the system to
06:06ensure that
06:07they win elections. If they gamed and fixed the system then why did they lose Kerala? Because the BJP is
06:13not a major
06:13force in Kerala. The BJP, you could argue that Congress and the BRS were the top two forces.
06:20Can you say that if you look at it in the parliament elections, majority of the MP seats were won
06:24by BJP.
06:26Same thing in Kerala. So see it's very, it's political convenience to blame. But then do you have
06:31an institutional framework in the field to ensure that the voting is mapped? It's not there for Congress.
06:37It's easy to blame when you lose on election commission. When you win you can say that there are
06:42various other reasons that you won an election. So you're saying parties with superior organization
06:46can do the mapping, can ensure that their voters are on the electoral rolls? I'm saying it's important
06:51that every eligible voter is on the electoral rolls. And as a political party we've understood the power
06:57of the voter list. From day one we've been very focused. Even in opposition we raised our opinion
07:02with election commission regarding the voter list. And we worked through the entire process.
07:07Let's turn to Gen Z. In many ways, I don't know where you qualify. You're 43. You're a millennial.
07:15But I want to understand where do you stand on this Gen Z and the angst of a younger India,
07:22which seems after particularly the rise of the Cockroach Janta party to be railing against the system.
07:28They become anti-establishment. Do you believe Gen Z has a genuine reason to be angry?
07:34Gen Z. Fundamentally I believe that we are seeing a new movement in India where
07:39it has nothing to do with caste, religion or region. It has to do with a demographic
07:44where there is a set of youngsters who believe that the system has to be transformed.
07:49I believe that are there areas to improve? Absolutely. Even in our own government I believe
07:55that there are multiple areas that we can do better. So what really excites me is that now we've
07:59identified the problems. We understand where we stand. As youngsters, all of us can come together
08:05and find solutions to those problems. And that's what excites me today.
08:09What do you think are the problems? Because you are seen as a young leader. You're looking at areas
08:14which are the areas of the future as a minister, including HRD. I'm told you started something
08:20called canteen pe charcha. Kind of you're going to school, college canteens across Andhra Pradesh.
08:25What are the young telling you? Jobs, jobs and jobs. The single point
08:32that today the youth of India is asking is create more and more jobs. So that is the single agenda
08:38with which my government is also working. We are all working together. So if you look at it,
08:42that's where the idea of creating 20 lakh jobs came about. So it's a single agenda from the Honorable
08:49Chief Minister himself to the last mile functionary. They're all about creating jobs.
08:54But isn't that the big challenge? Because you know, when before you came to the polls of 2024,
09:00you all made various promises to the young, including cash transfers that would be given to unemployed.
09:06You all promised lakhs of jobs. It's not happened. The young are still waiting for jobs.
09:11You're yourself admitting here today that when you meet them, they say jobs, jobs, jobs.
09:16You tell me, what are you doing to address the concerns of jobs, jobs, jobs in a state like Andhra
09:21Pradesh?
09:22One, it starts with education. Mapping what's the requirement of the industry and the market
09:27to the entire curriculum. Working on a curriculum revamp, number one. Number two, creating our ITIs
09:33closer to the ecosystem, the industrial ecosystem. That's been a great focus for us in Andhra Pradesh.
09:39And that is what will differentiate us from various other states. Three is actually
09:44working with the industry, attracting investments to create jobs. If you look at it in the last
09:48one year, Andhra Pradesh has attracted 25% of the investments that have come to India.
09:53That sets us apart. And if you look at it, we have created. LG is now going operational.
09:59Premier Energy has already gone operational. So we are not about MOUs. We are about grounding these projects,
10:04creating jobs in the local economy and ensuring that the youth of Andhra Pradesh have the skills
10:09that is required by these industrial ecosystems. And that is what is bringing us close.
10:14But is it possible to sort of cater to the kind of jobs that are required? Because it's not just
10:19about
10:20providing jobs, but high quality jobs or getting people who are qualified to do those jobs. You're
10:25bringing in investments. Is that enough to create labor intensive jobs in a state like Andhra Pradesh?
10:32I believe a state like Andhra Pradesh should attract investments across all sectors. If you look at it,
10:37ranging from horticulture to quantum computing, end to end. And we should have a clear cluster-based
10:43approach with a mission and with a focus to attract all investments into that cluster. And we have done it.
10:49That's how we have landed Skyroot before majority of us in the room even knew who Skyroot was. We landed
10:55them.
10:55Like this, across sectors, we are hunting for investments. We are chasing companies down to
11:00build the entire ecosystem and backing it up with a proper research ecosystem. That is what I believe
11:05will differentiate Andhra Pradesh to other states. You know, while you mentioned jobs, jobs, jobs,
11:10one of the things that emerged during the Gen Z movement was also exams, exams, exams. The way exams are
11:17conducted and you have also faced the fire because your opposition YSRCP has been alleging irregularities
11:24in the large-scale teacher recruitment process. They've hit the street on the on that issue. Do you
11:30believe the way examinations are conducted in this country needs a complete relook, a review,
11:35the way government conducted exams are done in particular, because every exam seemingly,
11:39there is some controversy or the other that emerges. First, let's start from Gali. And Andhra Pradesh,
11:46if you look at our DSE examination, it was done to the highest ethical order. And political
11:55unemployment employees are coming and talking about DSE. It's sad that the former chief minister doesn't
12:00even know the difference between DSE and APPSC. And he's questioning me. He's not conducted one teacher
12:06exam in the last five years. And he's questioning me. He's gone to the court. There were 300 cases
12:11filed against the DSE process. Not even one allegation has been proved. So we have held DSE
12:17examination to the highest order. And it's a computer-based testing. There's no…
12:22He's saying fake backward class and sports quota certificates were used by candidates,
12:26questioned their selection involving participation certificates, wants a CBI inquiry.
12:31Those certificates were given by his own ministers. The certificates were given by his own sports
12:38minister, his MLA. There are photos where, you know, students who qualified through sports quota
12:43got their certificates from the YCP government. So when you're in power, it is right. When you're
12:49in opposition, it is wrong. On sports quota, they went to court and they haven't been able to prove it.
12:53In the court, they filed a case saying that they want a CBI investigation. And the court has not said,
12:58there's no facts here. Are you open to an independent probe? When I've done nothing wrong,
13:05they can go to the court and take a direction. Absolutely, I'm fine with it. But do you believe
13:09that Gen Z's concerns over the way exams are conducted needs a relook? You know, that's because
13:14we saw it, we've seen it with the NEET exam became the flashpoint. But we've seen it from time to
13:20time.
13:20Ironically, IIT JE is one of the exams that doesn't seem to suffer from the same infirmities. So it's
13:25possible to do an exam properly. You've studied abroad. And one of the criticisms is a lot of
13:31politicians send their children abroad because they have no faith in our education system. Respond to
13:36that. Do you believe that we need a complete revamping of the education system of this country,
13:41including the way exams are conducted? Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with you on that. I believe
13:47that the education system has to be realigned with the requirements of Bharat of tomorrow, not of
13:54yesterday. And as education minister, I'm taking it head on. I've done teacher recruitment 16,000.
14:01Teachers have been recruited in the most transparent fair process. Today, I have a data set where every
14:06child is tracked. So we ensure that there are no dropouts because dropout is where potentially
14:12they take diversions from society. They can become drug peddlers, so on and so forth. So we are very
14:16conscious of it. So we have already done a lot of reforms in the education system. As far as examination
14:23conduct is considered, do we need reforms? Absolutely. No second thoughts about it. There are areas that we
14:28can do better. As you rightly said, the IIT exams are a great example where it's done very well. DSE
14:34exams is
14:34completely computer-based testing. It's not manual. We have shown the way in teacher recruitment to other
14:41states. So I think there's a lot that we can learn and improve. How important is it to align this
14:46Gen Z
14:47to the changing ecosystem where AI is going to become central to a lot of the professional
14:53challenges of the future? How do you train, for example, young children in a rural school in
14:58in Andhra Pradesh or across the state to equip them to be AI friendly students who can compete
15:04with the best in India and the world? Because Andhra's great quality has been that you all were
15:10able to embrace the IT revolution. How do you now embrace the AI revolution? So the Honorable Chief
15:15Minister has given taken a stand that every family should either be a user of AI or should have a
15:21use
15:21case for AI. This has been the stand. And we are working through the education department, our own
15:26department, of creating mechanisms where you can expose students to the next frontier technologies
15:32ranging from AI all the way to quantum. So we are doing micro-courses. We are now building out our
15:38computer labs. And if you have seen, we have modernized quite a few schools in our ecosystem where labs have
15:43come in. Exposure is now started. But I believe this is just the beginning. Education system cannot be
15:48reformed overnight. It requires a decade, at least a decade of investment. And as a state, we are now
15:54doing that investments. Just for a moment to come back to the Gen Z point, it seems that the government
15:59has said that MPs, ministers should all go to universities across the country, interact with
16:04students. Rather than interact, should they start listening to students? You know, putting up
16:09Instagram Reels. I don't know whether you're also an Instagrammer. You put up Reels, but do you believe
16:15that's the way to connect with the young as the government wants, but actually to listen to what
16:20the young really want? I believe every government should listen, irrespective to the age group.
16:25Is this government listening? Is the Modi government listening to the voices of the young?
16:30In Andhra Pradesh, we are doing it. Our MPs are now going to colleges. I am also going to colleges.
16:35With no agenda, we are sitting there, having an open conversation. That is where great ideas actually
16:40end up coming. You know, there is specific advice given on quantum. When I went to Narsarop at a
16:46constituency and I went to the university there, the kids asked me that they want courses in quantum
16:51computing. And that's where I worked backwards with IBM to bring about capsule courses for the
16:55kids there. And they get credit for it. So once you, you know, create this practice of just sharing
17:00them out, there are a lot of ideas that we can put together. So is that an advice that you
17:04are in
17:04a way giving? Because you said in Andhra Pradesh we are doing it. Is that the advice you would give
17:08to the center rather than rely on one minute Reels, Instagram Reels? The way actually is to go on the
17:13ground, listen to the students and then build the infrastructure to make them AI friendly for the
17:17future? I believe we are already doing it. Can we do it? Meaning is the central government doing it
17:24or is the Andhra government doing it? In central government, we have one cabinet minister,
17:27we have one minister of state. Their feedback to me is that they are also going to the field.
17:31They are interacting with the youngsters across board. And I believe that this is just the beginning.
17:37Greater discussion should happen. You know, it's a very interesting time. And the way you just
17:42mentioned quantum computing, there's talk about making what Amravati a quantum valley. I mean,
17:48is this Chandra Babu Naidu's great dream? Now, there are two views to it. I, you know,
17:52you've been saying my leader, my leader is also, uh, you know, your, your father. He's also someone
17:58who really positioned Hyderabad as an IT capital. All those years ago, he was ahead of his time.
18:05Absolutely. No doubt about it. Can he really do with Amravati what he did with Hyderabad? Or is this
18:12some Tughlaqian dream that I don't have Hyderabad? I need to convert Amravati in the middle of
18:18Andhra Pradesh into an AI or a quantum computing hub. A lot of people have the same opinion when
18:23he spoke about IT revolution in Hyderabad. They said Bangalore is so far ahead, but then it takes
18:30one leader to transform any economy. Look at it globally. It took one leak, one year to transfer
18:35Singapore. Mr. Naidu is known to do it, and he continues to do it. So quantum is not a figment
18:42of imagination. The computers here, we just heard our advisor for defense, Satish Redikar, who spoke
18:48about it, threadbare. Next frontier is actually going to be quantum. And we are embracing it.
18:54India had a quantum mission. No state actually took it up. Andhra Pradesh is lapping it up. We are
18:59bringing the first 150 qubit quantum computer from IBM to be positioned in Amravati, where we can do our
19:05use cases. Then we can learn from it, do material sciences. Cryogenic technology can be developed
19:10in India and build the entire ecosystem of quantum. That's the next frontier and we are embracing it.
19:16So what is Andhra doing to get all the, you know, there's a huge competition going between states
19:21to attract these kind of prized investments. What is your secret mantra? What are you offering them?
19:27Concessions in terms of land? What is it that you're offering these
19:33global companies to come to Andhra Pradesh and no other state?
19:36I call it the, call it the 3S mantra. The what mantra? 3S mantra. 3S mantra.
19:42Okay. Speed, service, stability. Speed of doing business. You know, Andhra Pradesh is setting benchmarks
19:51at the speed at which you are able to clear proposals. Second is service. I update them
19:57periodically on the status of the projects in Andhra Pradesh. There's a mechanism that we've
20:02created. There's an entire ERP system where every project is reviewed and we update the promoter
20:07or the entrepreneur on the status of the project. Third is stability. Stability of policy framework
20:13that we have provided. Even when the governments change, the biggest question an entrepreneur has
20:18is that, is the policy going to stand the test of time in politics? And Mr. Naidu from his fourth
20:23term,
20:24first term, sorry, to the fourth term today, he's proven that his policies stand the test of time in
20:28politics. So we provide the 3S and that's how we are able to attract 25.3% of investments in
20:34India.
20:34You know, because much of this involves massive data center investments that you are doing. You've
20:41got what a $15 billion Google hub, which is being seen as the showpiece. You've got a Reliance 1.5GW
20:49center, which is coming out. Google coming to Vizag, would you compare it to Microsoft choosing
20:58Hyderabad in the late nineties? Is this your, is this a similar moment where data centers become
21:05the next driver for a, for a city like Vishakhapatnam? Absolutely. I believe that it's the catalyst,
21:11but that's just the beginning because Google has landed. Now you're seeing a lot of AI companies
21:17coming, you're seeing a lot of domestic IT companies now coming and investing into Andhra
21:21Pradesh. You're seeing investments made from TCS, Infosys, Cognizant, now even Deloitte is
21:26doubling down on Vishakhapatnam. But see, we are not just attracting investments in data center.
21:32While that gets highlighted because it's Google or XYZ, we're attracting investments in steel,
21:38cement, aqua, pharma, medical devices manufacturing, AMCA project is now landed in Andhra Pradesh,
21:45solar energy, renewable energy projects are coming to Andhra Pradesh. So across board,
21:50as I said, from agriculture to quantum, we've been attracting investments across 23 clusters.
21:54There is a belief that is Andhra ready to, does it have the infrastructure for these big ticket
22:00data centers? Do you have the water? Do you have the power? Will you inevitably find yourself
22:05in a crisis with water resources, with the kind of power that you will need to power these data
22:09centers? Have you thought it through? Or is, is Chandrababu Naidu ji in Chandrababu Naidu 4.0
22:16and Nara Lokesh 1.0, men in a hurry? You just want to have those headlines. Have you thought it
22:23through as to the infrastructure, back-end infrastructure that you're going to need
22:27to sustain Andhra Pradesh as this big data center hub?
22:31To your first question, are we in a hurry? Absolutely. Because we only have five years.
22:36And the current generation, if you look at it, the Gen Z are also in a hurry. They want to
22:41see
22:41changes as of yesterday. Are you saying that you'll be out of power in five years? No, no,
22:44please allow me to finish it. Okay. Please allow me to finish it. I'm saying the youngsters are also
22:48in a hurry. They want us to show results. So I want to show results. And speed is our hallmark,
22:53number one. Number two, we are also doing it in a cluster-based approach. If you look at it,
22:57we're not peppering data centers across the state. We're very systematic. We're planning our water,
23:02our energy requirement. And majority of the data centers are actually going to be air-cooled data
23:06centers. And the water that they're going to use is equivalent to our water that's going to be used
23:10by an IT center. They're not very different. Yes, we are planning for it. That's why I said 23 clusters,
23:16where it's not just about attracting investments. It's about attracting all the verticals that go into
23:20building a cluster. And the horizontal where we look at skilling, testing, certification,
23:26end-to-end is what we need to bring in. That is what is going to make Andhra Pradesh different
23:30from other states. Interesting. In a way, listening to you is almost a rewind to how your father would
23:37speak 30 years ago. So some of the genes have obviously passed on from one generation to the next.
23:43But you know, I spoke about Gen Z. You're also education minister. So you've got to deal with
23:50Gen Alpha. And one wonders whether Gen Alpha's... Kokhrut Janata Party interestingly wants to start an
23:57agitation on improving schools now, the quality of schools. Now, I remember Jagan Mohan Reddy telling me
24:03he's going to make Andhra schools that are going to be completely ready for even bring them to
24:09American standards. Are you also throwing up those similar visions or do you accept that our school
24:14system also is in bad shape, including in rural Andhra, in large parts of Andhra? Why just rural? And therefore,
24:22one of your big challenges is improving the quality of education, teacher training, and those critical
24:27skills that will be required for Gen Alpha. One, have you made changes in the education
24:32system? Absolutely. I'm being a Stanford MBA, that's why I chose the education as a portfolio,
24:37saying that I can contribute back to society at scale. If you look at it, the outcome of what
24:44we have done in the last two years is 1,10,000 students have moved from private schools to a
24:48government school. A single outcome number I would like to leave the audience with. 1,10,000 students
24:53have moved from private schools to government schools. Because when Jagan Mohan Reddy was in
25:01power, he said, I am making my students SAT ready. That's why he lost 12 lakh students to the private
25:08sector. So 12 lakh students moved from government schools to the private schools during his tenure.
25:14Out of that, 1,10,000 students have come back from private schools to government schools now.
25:20With all due respect to him, he couldn't even get the fundamentals right. If there are no teachers,
25:27what are we even talking? He didn't even recruit teachers in 5 years. The first decision we took
25:32was teacher recruitment. 16,000 teachers have been recruited, trained. Now they have been deployed.
25:38We have restored dignity to our own teachers now. Our teachers are very motivated. If you look at our
25:44performance last year, our past performance has been far better. I believe we have to now move from
25:50past performance to excellence. We are taking those steps very systematically. And in that direction,
25:56we are making the transformation. And results are speaking for themselves.
26:00You have a portfolio that I don't know any other chief, any other minister in this country
26:05has, real-time governance. What is this real-time governance portfolio? Is it just, again,
26:10just clever marketing? What does the real-time governance ministry actually do?
26:17So, RTG is actually a ministry. RTGS is where we consolidate all the data coming from different
26:23ministries and create a data lake layer. And then we advise, we give alerts, advisory notes to different
26:31ministers and ministries on areas that require their attention and focus. So it could be from El Nino,
26:37to energy, to ranging from ensuring that there's sufficient medicines in government hospitals. So
26:43we do a lot of data crunching. And that is what is making us different from other states.
26:48You know, the reason I'm asking you that it's difficult to govern any state in this country.
26:55This year, for example, you're facing a drought or large parts of Andhra are facing a drought,
26:59as indeed are Karnataka, as indeed are Maharashtra. How does real-time governance help you in those
27:04situations? You've got a serious drought crisis in these states. Are there limits to what technology
27:12can do for a farmer, let's say, who's in Karnal district or anyone in the interior Andhra? Can
27:19they actually work? As I said, are there limits to what you can do through real-time governance? Give
27:25me an example of how you're actually bettering the lives of those farmers.
27:29Water management is a great example. Moving water, based on forecasts from Godavari, from Krishna,
27:36water needs to move to which parts of the state and how can we mitigate it. That's a great example.
27:42Second is advisory to the farmers themselves that don't sow. We'll give you guidance on when to sow
27:47and what to sow, based on forecast of weather, is another great example of it. Then advisory to our
27:54energy department. We have El Nino coming up, so the energy demands will rise and we need to be
28:00prepared to it. Could we have done it better? Absolutely. I think we are also learning as a
28:05department. Energy is a great example where we haven't been able to deliver the results up to my
28:10satisfaction. We missed the bus on energy planning as much as I thought we should do. We missed it.
28:16So these are learnings for us. Every day is a challenge for us and that's why we're building up
28:21that capacity to understand the requirements of the farming community, of the energy requirements.
28:27And that's how we're able to advise. You know, I want to ask you this question,
28:31Lokesh, which is I think a question that perhaps should also be asked to finance ministers in the
28:35country. But there is a major challenge that almost all states are facing, which is a fiscal challenge.
28:40When you look at the number, you are actually, Andhra Pradesh is ranked 17th among 18 major states
28:46by the Neeti Aayog fiscal health index, its lowest position in a decade. Clearly you're struggling to
28:53get the resources for the various expenditures you put in all the guarantee schemes. Do you believe
29:00this country is heading for a major fiscal crisis? You're a management graduate, you know numbers.
29:04Is this something that, you know, before elections, you make big promises. Then when it actually comes
29:09to delivery, you find that the treasury is empty. Is that a big challenge that you're facing?
29:14Is it a challenge for the states? It is a challenge. No questions about it. But look at the other
29:19side. Andhra Pradesh is now one of the fastest growing economies. Our GST is almost double-digit
29:25growth rate. We are about close north of 17-18 percent. We're waiting for this month results.
29:31I think they'll come in a week's time. Similarly, energy demand minus the El Nino impact, if you look at
29:36even energy growth rate is almost north of 25 percent. El Nino, put it on a different level,
29:42which is almost 45-50 percent growth rate. But we're at 25 percent. So the state is also growing.
29:47And I believe in the long term, we will be able to service our debt obligations. No second thoughts?
29:52No, but should governments be more conscious before they make these large
29:55announcements before elections that involve cash transfers, given the fiscal health in this country?
30:00I believe that it's a two-way street. Even the electorate also has to get responsible. So does
30:05the government. If today voting patterns are emerging based on poll promises, then why are you
30:12only blaming the politicians? It's easy to always blame a politician. It's equally responsible on both
30:18sides of the aisle to say that, yes, we need a government. I want to see a society where once
30:25they've come out of the cycle of the poverty, they'll say that, yes, we don't need welfare anymore.
30:30We are already out. We have jobs. We are able to manage our ends. We're happy. And that we have
30:35to get
30:35to there. I had the deputy chief minister of Telangana on the show, on the conclave. And he said that
30:42the
30:43southern states feel discriminated against, that the double engine model is only benefiting North
30:48India because the BJP is in power in North India as center. The southern states are losing out. We
30:53contribute more to the national exchequer, we get much less. TDP is very silent on this. Why? Is this
31:00where you stand depends on where you sit. Therefore, you don't want to upset Mr. Modi and the government
31:05by saying, no, no, we are not with the rest of the southern states. Do you agree with him when
31:09he
31:09says southern states are losing out? If you look at it, states that require hand-holding are being
31:15provided for. And this is nothing new. It's also happened during Congress, when Congress was in power.
31:21They also did the same and now they're conveniently lecturing the rest of India. However, I also believe
31:27that performing states should be given also equally preference. They should be supported. So in my own
31:33ministry, for example, education, I have brought in a lot of reforms. They are showing learning
31:36outcomes. A great example is centralized kitchens, where the entire midday meal currently gets
31:41cooked at a school level. There are a lot of quality issues, inventory management issues. In one
31:48district, we did a model where we said we will do cluster-based kitchens and yielded amazing results.
31:52The quality of food has gone up. Nutritional values have gone up. So I believe this has to be rolled
31:57out
31:57to the rest of the state. That's where I look forward to working with the Government of India,
32:00getting more money and resources, so that we can create these models of excellence. Similarly in
32:06other areas. No, because the fear is political power is concentrated in the North, economic power
32:11in the South. And the Southern states fear, particularly post delimitation, they will lose out.
32:15Do you share those fears? Do you believe economically advanced states should be rewarded for what they've
32:21done and what they've achieved? Absolutely. Performing states should be encouraged, number one. Number two,
32:26if you look at delimitation, with all due respect to Congress, if you look at it, they have created
32:31all this mess. It's very clear that if we do not act on it as of yesterday, 2026 census will
32:40be used
32:40for delimitation. Then who's going to lose? South India is going to lose. And that is why, as a
32:45political party, we have said proportional representation. Whatever representation that
32:49we currently have in Parliament shall be maintained. And that's always been Tel Guedesam Party's
32:54and it was that condition with which the bill would have moved. 50% uniform across states. Across
32:59states. And you will support it if it comes out tomorrow. Absolutely. With 33% reservation for
33:03women. In fact, it is TDP who brought reservation for women. It is our founding father NTRG who got
33:10reservation for women in local bodies. So we, it's not today, it's been 40 years since he's done it.
33:14So for us, this is nothing new. We have done it and we walked the talk. You know, one thing
33:19Chandra Babu Naiduji's Gadu said the other day which surprised me. He went in public and he said
33:24it more than once now, that people should have more than two children. Whatever happened to
33:28Hum Do, Humare Do. You see, now you're, it's almost as if Andhra Pradesh is worried that you'll get
33:34overwhelmed by the rising populations of the North Indian states and he's gone completely against
33:39what all demographers have said over the years. Very unusual for a leader like that. Why would you
33:44say that? Is this a statement that you think a statesman like politician should make?
33:51Demographic management is the single challenge, single biggest challenge that countries like Japan,
33:57Singapore are already facing. Please don't look at Andhra. I mean, India has one India.
34:03North India is moving at a certain pace in terms of replacement rates. South India is at a different
34:07place. In South, states are at a different level. If you look at it, Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu,
34:14are at the lowest level. And it will get further worse before it improves.
34:19So, therefore, Mr. Naidu is alluding to the fact that demographic management is important. We have
34:24to maintain our replacement rate, which is 2.1. Andhra is now at 1.5. And it's going to go
34:31down
34:31further before it gets better. And this is not something he spoke about today. He spoke about it in
34:352019. And he continues to talk about it. He's drawing attention of India to a subject that is
34:43going to be of paramount importance as we go down the road. But if we cannot provide sufficient jobs
34:48for the India of today, how will we provide sufficient jobs for the India of tomorrow,
34:52if you start asking families to have three kids? I mean, you know, there is an affordability
34:57question. There are income questions involved. It's not such an easy solution. And most demographers
35:02say it's a bad idea. Improve quality of education. That's much better. Focus on that rather than
35:07asking people to have three kids. Are we improving quality of education? Absolutely.
35:12No second thoughts. Andhra is already doing it.
35:14Two, are we providing jobs? Yes. Have we done 100% justice? No. We are in the way. The journey
35:20has
35:20started. We are attracting investments. Projects are actually getting grounded. And we are not about
35:24MOEs. We are not just about announcements. We are about grounding these projects to create jobs.
35:29So as a state, we have shown that we can do and we have created jobs. Look at the legacy
35:33with which we
35:33started. Between 19 and 24, how much my state suffered. We have rebounded and we are able to create the
35:38jobs.
35:38I just have two minutes. I thought I would ask you something more personal.
35:43From 2024, when you all won this election and you became a minister for the first time to now,
35:49what is the one thing you've learned? What is the one lesson you've learned in these two years
35:53about politics and public life? You were never a minister, first time minister. What have you learned
35:57in these two years? So this is actually my second term as a minister. But what I've learned is that
36:02we
36:03should have enormous patience to listen. Listen to your electorate, listen to youngsters, listen to the
36:10middle age. Take feedback. There's a lot we can learn. And no system is perfect. If you want to
36:16correct, if you want to improve a system, there are always areas of improvement. And that is one
36:19thing I've learned. I see you using a mobile with your app, my TDP app, and you're constantly
36:27responding to your karyakartas all the time. Where do you get the time to do it? You're a young man,
36:32you've got a family. You seem to spend more time responding to karyakartas than probably spending
36:37time with your family. Is that something you're comfortable with? It's not something I'm comfortable
36:42with. But I'm married lucky. I have a wife who supports me during my padiyatra, even now as a
36:49minister and as a party working president. She's always stood with me. She's always supported me.
36:53That's why I'm able to do what I'm able to do. And yes, my TDP is a great way where
36:58I get feedback
36:58from my karyakarta also. So she's the power behind you. Yeah, absolutely. She's your income
37:03earner, your breadwinner. She does all the real work and you interact with karyakartas. I love the way
37:10you're saying I'm not doing real work. All I'm saying is that when you came to, you know, people,
37:18if I may use the word, and I think I've said this to you before, when you came, people saw
37:22you as a
37:22nepo kid. You know, he's there because he's Chandra Babu Naidu's son and it's something you and your
37:27NTR's grandson. It's something you had to live with. It's not your fault.
37:31Do you believe that's still a burden that you have to live with? You feel constantly daily,
37:36I have to prove myself before I'm accepted possibly as deputy chief minister or maybe
37:41chief minister of Andhra one day. I don't look at it like that. I've never aspired for higher
37:46office. I've aspired to win the hearts of the people. Oh, come on. I've always been very focused.
37:49You don't want to be chief minister of Andhra? That's not my priority. My priority is to change
37:53the education system as of yesterday. That is what drives me day in, day out. That's what keeps me
37:59awake at night. You know, when there are examinations, I mean, the entire team is up. We are monitoring it
38:05like no tomorrow because we don't want any mistakes to happen. Because it's the kids' future. So we're
38:09very focused about it. So I have enough of work on my hands and on my head. And I love
38:14what I'm doing.
38:15I do it day in, day out. I breathe it. I live it. And I have a very understanding wife
38:19who supports me all the way.
38:20Do you miss anything in this 24 by 7 life of yours? I see you occasionally at T20 cricket matches.
38:26I see
38:26young Andhra players now doing very well. You've got Sheikh Rashid could be a future India player.
38:32Are you, are you, do you miss all that? Watching sport, doing, being a little normal life.
38:38This is my life and I'm very normal. I enjoy what I'm doing and I won't change anything about it.
38:44I always believe ABC always be closing. Always? Be closing. What does that mean?
38:50So I go to a cricket match, close an investment for Andhra Pradesh. And you'll be surprised how
38:56many industrialists and entrepreneurs I met at a T20 match and how many deals got done there. And they
39:01come and invested in Andhra. So ABC always be closing. Okay. That's the Andhra way. No wonder you had a
39:07term
39:07which was once used called Andhra Pranar. So you are an Andhra Pranar of the new generation who's closing
39:15deals at cricket matches. The other piece of advice I would give people after seeing what
39:20Lokesh was doing here last night is that if you have technology power, you can really use it to build
39:26an organization at times using modern technology, connecting to boots, 40,000 boots in your state,
39:34connecting them. And maybe there is a recipe there. So Chandra Babu Naidu's legacy of trying to marry tech
39:40to governance appears safe in your hands. Good to have you taking on all our questions and
39:47we wish you and your state very well. Thank you very much Nara Lokesh for joining us here on this
39:53fireside chat at the India Today South Conclave. Give him a big hand ladies and gentlemen. Good to
39:59have a young leader taking all the questions without asking for the questions in advance.
40:04Thank you Rajdeep. Thanks for having me.
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