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00:00:08And now I ask for your full attention because, wow, what a harvest of photos this week has been!
00:00:14They're always interesting, but these have something extra.
00:00:17The first was an airplane photographed with an Olympus D-600, authored by Juan José Villariño, an airplane in Copenhagen.
00:00:26An airplane in which these spectators who sent us the photograph were traveling.
00:00:32This photograph is giving us a lot of headaches, because as we can see, there is an anomaly.
00:00:38Let's enlarge the image so you can see it perfectly.
00:00:42According to the email they sent us, everyone had already left the plane.
00:00:47They were heading towards the exit in the first-class area, that's what they told us.
00:00:52And just when there were no more flight attendants or anyone else, they took the photograph.
00:00:57Can I zoom in further?
00:00:58Yes, I'll expand it right now.
00:01:00There we see the anomaly, which appears to be the face of a child.
00:01:05It looks perfect, right?
00:01:06But why doesn't it cause any headaches?
00:01:09Well, firstly, because it's not a physical person, it's like a flat surface.
00:01:13It could be a projection, but what were they doing projecting something when the plane was already on the ground?
00:01:18Now, let's look at the details. Here we can clearly see that face, which looks like a child's.
00:01:26We can even see the hair.
00:01:28Well, it's perfectly visible here.
00:01:30Guillermo León shows us this perfectly, right?
00:01:33What could it be? A projection? It couldn't be anymore.
00:01:35A movie? Nope.
00:01:37The plane had landed, let's remember.
00:01:39So, what are we talking about?
00:01:41Well, but also look at her expression, Carmen, an expression like one of melancholy.
00:01:44Look, we've inverted the colors in the analysis done by our computer scientist, Guillermo León, and you can still see that.
00:01:51image.
00:01:51It was something that was there, we don't know what it could be.
00:01:55We ask for your help.
00:01:56If you are pilots, flight attendants, if you know what kind of projections, for example, are shown when flying to Copenhagen, please,
00:02:03Give us a solution, because we haven't found one yet.
00:02:06Some kind of... let's get closer again, sure, let's get closer perhaps with that very image of investment
00:02:10in colors, let's see what effect the approximation of the figure gives, because it really is surprising.
00:02:16Get as close as you can.
00:02:17It could be a random stain on the wall that caused that, or it really just gives the impression of
00:02:25a child almost, almost hidden.
00:02:26And speaking of apparitions resembling the silhouette of a child, we go to the Comillas cemetery in Cantabria, there
00:02:34There was a photographer from Cuarto Milenio, a viewer named Fran, and he encountered a surprise when he had to
00:02:42Seeing the result, I certainly don't know if he let out a scream, but it's something to do, really.
00:02:47Well, also, our viewer Fran told us that some strange things happened, that he was taking several photographs with his camera
00:02:55In cemeteries, the truth is that in our country there are some very curious ones, like this one in Comillas.
00:03:01And when he was taking the photographs, he says that the battery was fully charged, and that he was sure of it.
00:03:07He suddenly got off quickly, so he couldn't see the pictures he had taken at that moment.
00:03:13And we have had to illuminate some areas, as we can see here, to find that supposed image that told us
00:03:22that appeared right here.
00:03:24Let's go to the expansion.
00:03:25In the foreground, as we can see, look, it was dark, right? But when we brighten it by applying filters, we find that there are
00:03:33a very curious character there.
00:03:35We're seeing it here, in two enlargements, which Guillermo León has made for us. We're going to enlarge it even more.
00:03:42Yes, yes, full speed ahead, full speed ahead.
00:03:42The children, on Cuarto Milenio today, are...
00:03:45Look, look, look, look, look at this extension for...
00:03:47Let's lower it.
00:03:48Here we see it.
00:03:49It looks perfect, doesn't it? It even looks like it's laughing.
00:03:54Well, the analyses...
00:03:55Let's see, let's see, let's see, come down there, impressive, really, a child, but a child who looks like he's made of flesh and blood and
00:03:58bone, but what an accidental composition of the photo.
00:04:01The boy, I don't know if he meant to scare anyone, but he certainly succeeded, didn't he?
00:04:04Well, accidental or not, because we really don't know.
00:04:09We don't know if our viewer actually knew there was a child there, because if they told us there was nobody there
00:04:15Besides, what would a child do hiding at the cemetery gates?
00:04:19I really had to be there and I could be someone who went with them.
00:04:23Get a little closer because you can even see the blue anorak, right? Typical of that Cantabrian climate.
00:04:29There's the child, well, hidden, right, right in the area of the columns.
00:04:35The columns prove that he was either hiding or is certainly the most obvious ghost in the flesh.
00:04:42from the history of the fourth millennium.
00:04:43Well, that's a surprising photograph. We'll have more later, Carmen, towards the end of the program.
00:04:48And now we talk about dreams. It's incredible, as with the photos, the reception of the new section, which is
00:04:53It opens tonight.
00:04:54We ask for your cooperation with the two usual addresses. You already know them, you can see them, write them down carefully, because there
00:05:00We are receiving hundreds of dreams.
00:05:01And also, Carmen, if you'd like, we can compile a list of which dream groups are most frequently repeated. Perhaps that will tell us something.
00:05:09Perhaps that reflects a common feeling, certain fears.
00:05:13This next one seems to be a premonitory dream. Let's analyze it, let's experience it, and immediately two more will follow.
00:05:19specialists to tell us, perhaps to correctly interpret for us, this mystery that happens every night and in which we are always immersed,
00:05:28Whether we like it or not.
00:05:29Dreams.
00:05:31Monica was my best friend from school. We shared teenage confidences and were practically inseparable.
00:05:42When we finished primary school and secondary school started, I lost all contact with my primary school classmates.
00:05:49And I never saw my friend Monica again, until one winter night, she came to visit me.
00:06:07In my dream, Monica asked me for help so that what she called the light could not reach her.
00:06:19Hand in hand, we ran and ran through alleyways and hiding places.
00:06:30We tried to make as little noise as possible so that the light that was chasing us couldn't reach us.
00:06:56From time to time, exhausted, we would stop and cry from sheer anguish, until the light reached us.
00:07:06And we had to flee again.
00:07:11Without knowing how, I lost contact with Monica.
00:07:15And I found myself alone in that unknown place.
00:07:18With the threat of that cursed light that he knew was hiding somewhere.
00:07:27Finally, I reached a place where there was a metal gate, behind which I saw Monica.
00:07:36I yelled at him to run, to escape from there and come to my side before the light returned
00:07:42to appear.
00:07:45In my desperation, I grabbed her hand and tried to pull her towards me.
00:07:51Monica looked at the light again, and when I saw her face again, something had changed.
00:08:01He told me not to be afraid, that he now understood that the light was not a bad thing, and he asked for my forgiveness.
00:08:08for scaring me like that.
00:08:12My friend then let go of my hand, said goodbye, and the light began to merge with her, enveloping her.
00:08:22And that's when I woke up.
00:08:28A week later, I ran into an old friend from school,
00:08:33who told me that Monica had died precisely the night I had had that dream.
00:08:40She was hospitalized due to anorexia, of which she knew nothing.
00:08:45and that it had led her first to a coma and then to death.
00:08:50Her name was Monica.
00:08:53A 17-year-old girl who for some reason chose me to come from the world of
00:08:59dreams
00:09:00will accompany her in her final moments.
00:09:10The truth is that dreams, of course, we immerse ourselves in them every night; some are remembered, others are not.
00:09:17Our idea is not to be dogmatic or anything like that, but simply to have two good friends.
00:09:21each from their own perspective and let them teach us a little.
00:09:24And you all should continue to collaborate, because as I said, we will do that study in which we try to see if there are certain dreams
00:09:31that are repeated,
00:09:32that they want to tell us something.
00:09:34Perhaps there is a message there, and we can understand it too.
00:09:38Manuel Almendro, PhD in psychology, a good friend of this program.
00:09:43Welcome, Manuel.
00:09:44Hello.
00:09:46Well, this book, which we have recommended on several occasions, and because our friends here today have endorsed it,
00:09:50Well, his work and experience, but for hugely successful books.
00:09:54And really, highly recommended for getting into the world of dreams and everything that surrounds it.
00:09:58Transpersonal Psychology and Psychotherapy, published by Kairos, the last one I'm reading, Manuel Shamanism,
00:10:04We'll talk about that another day.
00:10:06And Clara Tagoces, welcome to this fourth season.
00:10:10His dream dictionary was also a huge success.
00:10:13Because, of course, interpreting dreams can't be easy.
00:10:16I don't know offhand, you can start a debate at any time.
00:10:20What does this story suggest to you—that someone has lived, dreamed, and that it also means something very powerful to her?
00:10:29A true story, that is, it is not a dream that has been recreated.
00:10:32No, no, no, it was exactly like that.
00:10:35Well, I find it quite interesting from a supposedly paranormal point of view.
00:10:42Let's say, taking into account that we lack elements to know if the dream could be made into a category
00:10:49within this nature, but it could be some kind of telepathy.
00:10:56In other words, telepathy?
00:10:57Yes, perhaps there is a very strong bond between these friends that has become evident in the recreation of the
00:11:04dream
00:11:04And at a certain point, a distress call comes in, because the dream doesn't happen and then the friend, let's say, passes away.
00:11:13But it seems to happen on the same day, at the same time, right?
00:11:16Otherwise, it would be a type of premonitory dream, which is also what happens afterwards, right?
00:11:21It's a possibility, it's a possibility that it was a premonitory dream, that is, that he had access to a
00:11:26knowledge,
00:11:27to something that escapes us, because the mechanism is unknown.
00:11:30In fact, many people do not accept premonitory dreams, do not accept phenomena of another nature, such as clairvoyance, etc.
00:11:38Well, it seems that in dreams it's also difficult to accept this, isn't it?
00:11:41But in this case, the fact that she didn't know her friend was hospitalized, that she was sick in
00:11:47a hospital, suffering,
00:11:49But that link still existed.
00:11:51And then there's something else that's very casual, Iker, and that's the fact that she had access to that
00:11:55information later,
00:11:56That is, that she had an encounter with a former friend or colleague who informed her of this situation,
00:12:01Because maybe he would never have found out, right?
00:12:03It would have gone from a mere anecdote of a dream with a friend, but I would not have known the fatal outcome.
00:12:09How interesting, and that information from the friend also coincides with her saying it's the same day, doesn't it?
00:12:14She did, immediately.
00:12:15Manuel, first diagnosis, in quotes, of course.
00:12:17Sure, well, let's see, in principle, diagnosis wouldn't necessarily be necessary if what we intend is to qualify, right?
00:12:27A pathology that in this case is not one at all, right?
00:12:31So, I think that what you're talking about has an important point, which is the objective data.
00:12:35In other words, there seems to be a synchronicity, since we have spoken of synchronicity.
00:12:40between a dream and a real, objective fact as presented in the images, right?
00:12:46Regarding the second point, I believe that what is being conveyed here is the deepest level of sleep.
00:12:53because dreams have different levels.
00:12:56And the deepest level is that in which one enters a state of consciousness.
00:13:01In a non-ordinary state of consciousness, an expanded state of awareness,
00:13:07which is characterized by entering a transpersonal field.
00:13:11In other words, it is a field that is beyond space and time.
00:13:15So, when you enter that level, you can enter through sleep,
00:13:18And not only is sleep a means to enter there, you can enter in different ways.
00:13:24Because we are now entering a place, we might say, a slightly more delicate concept,
00:13:28into which almost all ancient wisdom has sought to enter.
00:13:34Travelers through dreams, right? To those states.
00:13:36Absolutely. That's why I'm telling you it's very important to understand that there are different levels of sleep.
00:13:43and even when interpreting it we will already be talking about different octaves.
00:13:46But then, in that deep sleep, we access certain truths that later come true.
00:13:51My opinion is yes. At least they are subjective truths.
00:13:57Although they may not be public truths, at least they are private truths.
00:14:01And above all, they are private truths when people live them, and, as dreams have one fundamental aspect,
00:14:08The thing is, we all dream. Therefore, this topic is of interest to everyone.
00:14:12We are, that is to say, it is profoundly democratic.
00:14:15Here there are no social classes when it comes to dreaming; rich and poor, experts and inexperienced, even animals dream.
00:14:22In other words, everyone dreams and everyone has an interest.
00:14:26So, another way is, we might say, to see if everyone is interested in being self-aware.
00:14:34Well, look, Manuel, Clara, and it could be very interesting because even one day, and it makes sense,
00:14:39We will do a monograph on the enigma of sleep in general.
00:14:41But we have received such a flood of prophetic, premonitory, or telepathic dreams, as in this one...
00:14:46So, let's see, we've seen that a lot of people are distressed, I don't know if we can throw them a
00:14:51message,
00:14:52because what they dreamed of has come true, or they interpret it as having come true,
00:14:56Whether it is an accident, it is usually more associated with tragic or dramatic events.
00:15:01That's why they leave us with anguish, rather than great happiness, right?
00:15:04And they fear it will happen again, or that that message will suddenly reappear in the middle of the night, right?
00:15:09Could we say something to these people?
00:15:11Well, that kind of transcendence, so to speak, isn't something that people handle in a very natural way.
00:15:22pleasure,
00:15:22Normally, that is, except for people who are prepared to access that type of knowledge,
00:15:29Not everyone does it consciously, so it's unlikely to be repeated.
00:15:34But it is true that there is one interesting thing from the point of view of case law,
00:15:39And the fact is that people who generally have these types of dreams tend to have them more frequently throughout
00:15:46life,
00:15:46Perhaps not with such momentous events as deaths, but with casual occurrences that somehow shape that personality.
00:15:56What is that person like who has that content, that ease of access to other worlds, right?
00:16:01Other realities, or even information that's already there, right?
00:16:05But I would always tell them no, try not to worry, because there are also many dreams that are confused with dreams
00:16:12premonitory,
00:16:13and that they are really coincidences, and that sometimes they are analyzed, and one realizes that the unconscious
00:16:18He is wiser than we think.
00:16:19and that we take note of practically everything that happens around us,
00:16:23even if we are not aware of it, let's say, quite obviously,
00:16:26And yet in the dream it's telling us, isn't it?
00:16:31There are some cases, for example, of a woman who dreams of a balcony collapsing,
00:16:35And then the balcony breaks, it falls and all that, and then she thinks,
00:16:39My God, this is going to happen to me, this is something that is going to come true.
00:16:42And suddenly he looks out onto the balcony and notices that there is a crack in the balcony,
00:16:45That is, something he had probably noticed during the vigil, and yet had not taken note of it.
00:16:49It's interesting, and it's repeated to him at night as information, isn't it?
00:16:52Exactly, that is, there are many recurring dreams, and that is clearly a message from the unconscious.
00:16:59It's clear, because for those of us who work in the clinical world, it's quite common.
00:17:05that patients and people in the process come with a desire for a dream.
00:17:12In fact, of course, I think that in principle, what are dreams, we could say?
00:17:17Of course, dreams are symbolic organizations, which are processed in the realm of the unconscious.
00:17:24That is to say, organizations means that they are not trivial things, that they are not things done haphazardly,
00:17:30In other words, they are things that have an order within that chaos.
00:17:33Symbolic means that when one dreams that one is Napoleon,
00:17:37He knows perfectly well, the next morning, that he is not Napoleon, right?
00:17:42But the dream is still related to power, that is, that's what a symbol is.
00:17:46That's why symbols are difficult to define and explain.
00:17:50Because between the symbol and what it symbolizes, there is a very complex path.
00:17:56And perhaps a symbol means one thing to one person and another thing to another.
00:18:00Obviously, for example, it is very common that sometimes in consultations
00:18:03People come to you worried because I dream that my teeth are falling out.
00:18:06There are some dreams that are collective.
00:18:08By the way, Manuel, one of the classics: losing your teeth or being at a conference
00:18:12Being in front of the public and suddenly being naked has been top fears.
00:18:15Or that someone is chasing you and so on.
00:18:18Or that flies away.
00:18:18But with several, there are interesting facts.
00:18:20I was reading about a neurologist I really like, his name is Luis Barraquer.
00:18:24And in a study of people with Parkinson's, 52% of them
00:18:29They had felt it in their dreams, they had been attacked in their dreams by characters, etc., etc.
00:18:35What this means about these symbolic organizations is that they are transmitting something to us.
00:18:41Manuel, Clara, the light, I say to say something for the moment, even if it's just a brushstroke,
00:18:45to this person who had this dream.
00:18:47There are two elements that really catch my attention.
00:18:49Light, a fence, and the reintroduction of a friend, right?
00:18:53That important time, childhood, adolescence, right?
00:18:56Where we meet people who suddenly disappear, right?
00:18:58We lost contact, but it remains in our memory.
00:19:00Completely.
00:19:01It's back again with tremendous force, isn't it?
00:19:04I imagine that feelings we wanted to forget about them are resurfacing within us.
00:19:09And that sort of halo, right? Of luminosity that follows us.
00:19:14I don't know if in your study, in the book, light is usually present.
00:19:19Man, light is a symbol of knowledge, of accessing information,
00:19:22Of course, in this case, in my personal opinion I interpret it more as a symbol in this.
00:19:30When someone crosses a threshold, they cross the threshold and go to the other side, right?
00:19:36It's where everything forbidden to mortals is, it's the great mystery, among other things, isn't it?
00:19:41Whether there is something beyond.
00:19:43And that fence would perhaps define the space between the worlds.
00:19:46Of course, it's saying your participation ends here, you can no longer access this knowledge.
00:19:51to this other truth, to this other, what lies behind life, if there is one, right?
00:19:57But in any case, it marks, let's say, an interpretation, in my opinion,
00:20:02In this case, light can be very positive in dreams,
00:20:06Here he talks about a change, a drastic change, of course.
00:20:10Importantly, you have recorded thousands of dreams for your studies, to compile them,
00:20:15And I don't know if the premonitory dream, that is, the one that comes true 100%,
00:20:18the one that, as in this case, seems to be beyond doubt, that is to say,
00:20:21You dream about a friend you haven't seen in years, and she happens to die on the day you're dreaming about her.
00:20:24with her,
00:20:25Call it coincidence, Yumbian synchronicity, whatever you like,
00:20:27But they are common in broad concepts, aren't they?
00:20:32Not only perhaps with death, but one dreams of an earthquake and it occurs in their town,
00:20:36You dream about it, your pet dies and it actually does, that happens.
00:20:39They are more common than people think.
00:20:42More common.
00:20:43Exactly, because there's a logical reason for that too, isn't there?
00:20:46That is, as we all dream, that is, and there are thousands and millions of people in the world,
00:20:52Well, they are, let's say, nighttime access points, incursions into that other state, let's say.
00:20:57from our unconscious, which can sometimes access information previously unknown to us
00:21:03or that terrifies us because it often contains negative content,
00:21:07Because maybe we don't know how to handle that, right?
00:21:09We don't yet know how to function in such a way that we apply our dreams to our benefit.
00:21:15instead of it becoming something negative, right?
00:21:18But they are much more common than people think
00:21:20and sometimes with very precise details that obviously give one pause for thought
00:21:25These aren't just simple coincidences, are they?
00:21:28I can even tell you about a family dream, if you'll allow me.
00:21:32Of course.
00:21:32A family dream that, well, since my grandmother has already died, I don't think she'd mind me telling about it.
00:21:36But she had a friend, she lived in the north, she's already come to Madrid.
00:21:42She hadn't seen her friend for 20 years; it's a dream similar to this one.
00:21:45That's why I wanted to mention it, and then one night he dreamed about her,
00:21:52that he met her in the street and that she came to say goodbye, that she came to say goodbye,
00:21:56It's been a pleasure meeting you, delighted to have seen you, etc.
00:22:01And, well, the next day she found her friend's obituary in the newspaper.
00:22:06I think that with Clara and Manuel it's going to be very interesting, dreams and health.
00:22:11Who knows, right?
00:22:12There are things, there are people who say that our health is indicating things to us through a certain type of dream,
00:22:15dreams and symbols about our future, about the decisions, as you said, Manuel, of our lives.
00:22:20And be careful with that, because many people get anxious, since you were also asking earlier,
00:22:24because he dreams of death, his own death, someone else's death.
00:22:27Death, often sleep, is nothing more than a transformation.
00:22:30It is a transformation of personality, it is not death.
00:22:32Of course, the person dreams that they are dying and wakes up and gets a huge fright, right?
00:22:38And so what he dreams of, the death of oneself, is a dream of transformation.
00:22:42I think we're going to learn, Manuel, because there are so many lucid dreams.
00:22:46Remembering what we dream, being able to truly interpret it, and achieving objective learning.
00:22:51And then we'll have some dreams that are coming to us, where many people are going to feel like they're flying.
00:22:55Who hasn't dreamed about it?
00:22:56Man, what does that mean?
00:22:57And to fall, right?
00:22:58Me, for example, don't tell me, but being on a street where the bulls come,
00:23:04a frenzied running of bulls that chase you.
00:23:06Because?
00:23:07And many others agree with me.
00:23:09But it's going to be very interesting, really.
00:23:10This is a gradual process, like the steps of knowledge, right?
00:23:13And surely, from what we've seen, the reception is going to be just as fantastic.
00:23:16which we will clear away, and whenever you want, of course, you can be there with us,
00:23:22Some dreams may be different and may have a completely different analysis.
00:23:27And they can, above all, which I believe is the virtue you have, right?
00:23:30Contribute something to us.
00:23:31Not to fill ourselves with anguish alone, but to contribute something, even though the first dream was quite shocking.
00:23:36Dr. Manuel Almendro, as always, it's a real pleasure to learn from you.
00:23:39Thanks my friend.
00:23:39Well, we're here for whatever you need.
00:23:42It's really going to be very interesting.
00:23:43I invite you to the next dream, what will it be?
00:23:45Nobody knows that.
00:23:46It's up to you.
00:23:47And Clara, truly, as always, it's a pleasure to be with you.
00:23:49Thank you very much, Javier.
00:23:50Until next time.
00:23:51I think we're going to enjoy it, because as Manuel Almendro said,
00:23:54This happens to all of us.
00:23:55No one gets away with it here.
00:23:57Here we can all learn, which is what's important.
00:23:59In a few minutes, the mystery ship will be transformed into a kind of art gallery.
00:24:03It's an art that impresses, but also has its lessons and its meaning.
00:24:07Post-mortem photography.
00:24:08You know, just a few minutes, here in the mystery ship.
00:24:22If you'd like, let's join in a skywatch.
00:24:26It's a new, curious phenomenon.
00:24:28It's generating a lot of buzz online, in forums, with people getting together to monitor what's happening.
00:24:32They are not, precisely, looking for UFOs or celestial phenomena.
00:24:35There's talk of chemtrails, of chemical traces, in some way.
00:24:40That's what they think, and there are many theories.
00:24:42I don't know what this is, but it comes from here, from Spain.
00:24:45It's happening right now, Carmen.
00:24:46It's happening here and many people have alerted us.
00:24:50There are already many forums dedicated to recording the skies of their cities for 24 hours.
00:24:55from their localities and record these strange stelae.
00:24:58At first glance, we might think that these are just ordinary commercial airplanes.
00:25:02that they leave behind when passing over a city.
00:25:05But when they start to intersect, when they appear every day in cities like this
00:25:11From León, our friend Lucas sent us this curious video.
00:25:15in which we can see this perfectly, that is, so that we can see how those chemtrails are passing by.
00:25:21The video is sped up, otherwise it would take many hours to watch.
00:25:24And he also sent us photographs that he had taken himself.
00:25:29What could it be? People are talking about all sorts of things, Iker.
00:25:32Since it involves planes breaking through the clouds to make it rain,
00:25:36even those who say it's another series of liquids or powders for,
00:25:41And that's the point, controlling diseases.
00:25:47Controlled spread of diseases, that's what our friend tells us.
00:25:50In other words, pure conspiracy, pure conspiracy.
00:25:52This is getting a little scary, yes, totally conspiracy-theory.
00:25:54Of course, although we say this is incredible and it probably won't be.
00:25:58And it is the most fevered mind that imagines these things.
00:26:00Now then, in 20 years, imagine some report like the ones Santicamá brings here.
00:26:04And not only that.
00:26:05And let them say that there were experiments.
00:26:06It was talked about a lot in Soria, remember?
00:26:08Of the small planes that broke through the clouds.
00:26:09There were controversies at the level of the Spanish Parliament.
00:26:13Sending certain solutions, certain elements into the atmosphere to diffuse the presence of clouds,
00:26:20to make things disappear, climate control, in short.
00:26:24But this, I don't know, people are watching the skies.
00:26:26It also says that they add aluminum and barium, which increases the conductivity of the air,
00:26:30to later bombard with HAARP, with waves, microwaves,
00:26:35and thus warm the clouds, make them rise and disappear.
00:26:38Well, the controversy is served.
00:26:41The truth is that if we travel along the roads, we often come across these trails.
00:26:46that we don't know what they are.
00:26:48There are all sorts of hypotheses, Iker, but we'll leave it up in the air for now.
00:26:52If those forums want to show us more photos, more videos,
00:26:55Like the one our friend Lucas sent us, well, there are two ways to contact him to do it.
00:27:00I certainly don't believe it, that it's anything unusual.
00:27:02They'll be reactor stars, I've always thought the same, but of course.
00:27:06Stay alert, keep a watchful eye, and we'll see.
00:27:07Even from the luminosity produced by two suns.
00:27:11We want your videos, we want your videos like we want the news, the current events.
00:27:15Music, always so closely linked to spirituality, plays a prominent role.
00:27:20Aztec music, meat.
00:27:21A German archaeologist and musicologist has managed to reveal unknown aspects of Aztec music.
00:27:28The specialist analyzed the air movements inside flutes and whistles.
00:27:32through a computed tomography scan that allowed him to discover how its particular sound was produced,
00:27:38which is similar to gusts of wind and the sound of storms.
00:27:41Apparently, these instruments possess construction characteristics
00:27:45which is not found in any other well-known musical.
00:27:48These very particular sounds are produced when inside the flutes
00:27:52two diametrically opposed air currents collide
00:27:55inside what he has called a chamber of chaos.
00:27:58These are flutes shaped like skulls that would represent the union of two divine beings,
00:28:03Mikante Kutli, god of the underworld, and Ehekal, god of the wind.
00:28:07These investigations showed that the instruments reproduced the sound
00:28:11that the ancient inhabitants of Mesoamerica believed existed in the underworld.
00:28:15They also believed that the north wind came from the land of the dead.
00:28:19And we continue with discoveries. Look at these frescoes.
00:28:22During the restorations that were being carried out in a Lebanese church
00:28:27There has been a real discovery.
00:28:29That temple was closed for several centuries, and now look at the pictorial discovery.
00:28:35The specialists found it embedded in a false attic
00:28:38a mural painting depicting the head of the Virgin and that of the archangel Gabriel.
00:28:43It is a series of valuable frescoes from the 11th, 12th and 13th centuries.
00:28:47After cleaning the walls, the specialists found figures of saints,
00:28:51Among them were Sergius and Bacchus, soldiers, martyrs of early Christianity,
00:28:56in addition to apostles and archangels who held up the vaults.
00:29:00Writings in Aramaic, Greek, and Arabic were discovered on the friezes.
00:29:04with the names of the disciples of Jesus Christ depicted in mural paintings.
00:29:09The convent, mentioned in some 9th-century texts,
00:29:12It is a construction of white stones placed over several stages.
00:29:16Its chapel possesses an icon that displays, in one of its parts, a 10th-century virgin.
00:29:20and on the other the baptism of Christ, which dates from the 13th century.
00:29:24And from very primitive Christianity we go to the Inca world.
00:29:27You'll see the number of objects that have been discovered here.
00:29:30The amount, you said.
00:29:32More than 19,000 ceremonial objects have been found in the Inca fortress of Saxahuamán.
00:29:39According to the National Institute of Culture,
00:29:41Among the objects, two small anthropomorphic gold images stand out.
00:29:45who are in a position of supplication.
00:29:47In the area, archaeologists also discovered the tomb of a person
00:29:50placed squatting, next to a pot, a ceremonial plate
00:29:54and a small Inca-style jug.
00:29:57In addition, 18 metal and quartz objects stand out,
00:30:00between tupus or clothespins,
00:30:02whose smoky quartz crystals,
00:30:05and other religious accessories.
00:30:07Thousands of beads made of different materials were also found,
00:30:11among them 859 made from spondylus,
00:30:15a spiny shell that was highly valued in pre-Columbian times.
00:30:19The Saxahuamán fortress was one of the main strongholds of pre-Columbian Peru
00:30:23and guarded the entrance to what was the capital of the Inca empire.
00:30:27In Cuzco, one of the most impressive fortresses,
00:30:30He still doesn't know how some of the stones were polished.
00:30:33and how they were transported to those heights.
00:30:35It's unusual, like what's coming now, an unusual world.
00:30:44You have all probably heard of crop circles,
00:30:47those that became so famous in England a few years ago.
00:30:51Well, now there are circles, but on the ice.
00:30:54This isn't the first time it's happened.
00:30:55But in Russia, they have been left waiting with bated breath after seeing these images.
00:30:59They are seeing concentric circles
00:31:02that can support the weight of a person.
00:31:04What causes them? Changes in temperature?
00:31:07Scientists have proven that this is not the case.
00:31:09So how are those perfect circles made inside the ice?
00:31:15And now we come to an unusual study, carried out by the University of Scotland.
00:31:19A study on music and people's personalities,
00:31:23of the humans who listen to that music.
00:31:25For example, heavy metal fans, those who listen to that loud music,
00:31:30They seem to get too excited about her.
00:31:33Well, quite the opposite.
00:31:35According to this study, they are kind and very creative people.
00:31:39People who listen to jazz, for example, also
00:31:42It tells us that they have a good level of self-esteem.
00:31:45If you like country music, then you'll be a good worker.
00:31:49but somewhat shy.
00:31:51And if your favorite music is the show,
00:31:53then he will feel very encouraged by this study,
00:31:57because he is sociable, creative, and friendly.
00:31:59and above all, he likes himself a lot.
00:32:02And the last of the unusual news stories takes us to a football match.
00:32:07And why is that unusual?
00:32:08Well, because apparently one of the players performed black magic.
00:32:12And what does that have to do with anything?
00:32:14Well, the result was tragic.
00:32:16Thirteen people died.
00:32:18most of them young people between the ages of 14 and 19.
00:32:23They were watching that football match
00:32:25when one of the players, right in the middle of the field,
00:32:28He began to perform a strange ritual that they say is black magic.
00:32:32From then on, they started fighting and hitting each other.
00:32:35and we've even seen deaths.
00:32:37Football and black magic don't always mix well.
00:32:41And look, Carmen, what I have here.
00:32:42This also has something unusual about it, typical of your section.
00:32:48UFO research in Spain.
00:32:50Yes, yes, they are comics.
00:32:51And they were fundamental in the history of magazines in the 1970s.
00:32:55Why? What were they saying?
00:32:56We'll analyze them in the newspaper archives.
00:33:08What we unearthed from the great archive of the Spanish press
00:33:11This time it's a real rarity, a little gem.
00:33:15Such was the interest in the UFO phenomenon in Spain in the 70s
00:33:18that the popular magazine Diez Minutos dedicated several installments signed by the prodigious pen of Builla
00:33:25to recount several cases.
00:33:28Famous cases of encounters with alleged unidentified flying objects.
00:33:32But some of them truly are prodigious works.
00:33:35It's the comic of the unusual.
00:33:37The first one that really existed in Spain, later came José María Caideda,
00:33:41But the first one was Diez Minutos and here we have stories that we have told in Cuarto Milenio.
00:33:46Famous stories, Carmen, like the ones you have there.
00:33:48Stories like that of Aracena, the UFO of Aracena in Huelva.
00:33:52You will remember July 6, 1969.
00:33:56Strange lights were seen in the skies and even Iker ended up cutting off the power to some of the houses.
00:34:02We have suffered those tremendous blackouts in the capital of Spain.
00:34:07In this case, it wasn't due to unidentified flying objects, as was the case in Aracena.
00:34:11Well, and Galdar, for example...
00:34:12The press here perfectly reflected how the case had been.
00:34:16The witnesses, how were the characters in that comic watching television.
00:34:21Or as Iker rightly said, Galdar.
00:34:23That case in which alleged humanoids were seen inside a large sphere.
00:34:27Well, and some cases, not so famous, like that of Granja de Torre Hermosa, Badajoz,
00:34:31which the friends of 10 minutes titled as the little green martians.
00:34:34Then with all kinds of data, dates, real witnesses, and drawn exactly as it should have been.
00:34:40It's a bit like the prelude to the recreations on Cuarto Milenio, but taken to what they call the ninth art, right?
00:34:45The comic.
00:34:46First example in Spain, 10 minutes, UFO investigation.
00:34:50No more, no less.
00:34:51I wish initiatives like this would return.
00:34:54They were sure to be successful.
00:34:55Given my conviction, what kind of success will the next space have?
00:35:00The mystery ship, I assure you, is transforming.
00:35:13And after the newspaper archives, at this time of night, what could be better than a good chat?
00:35:16Our chameleon-like mystery ship is capable of transforming itself, as you can see.
00:35:19Well, here we have a room, a somewhat 19th-century room, almost an old art gallery or auction house,
00:35:26But nothing will be bought or sold; it will simply be observed and learned.
00:35:30That's what matters.
00:35:30And also, with good friends, Flaminio, good evening, he's going to help us get certain documents reviewed.
00:35:38Post-mortem photography, what a subject, you're going to be impressed, that's for sure.
00:35:41That's why I've warned that, well, anyone who is particularly sensitive needs to be careful.
00:35:48Because before introducing our friends, what better way than to present the type of material they are going to see.
00:35:53An ancient tradition, an anthropological way of seeing life and death, and one that was practiced in our country.
00:35:59And perhaps it is still practiced, although certainly in this 20th century almost nobody wants to know anything about death.
00:36:04In this 21st century, virtually any possibility of connecting with her has been abandoned.
00:36:09But the photographs, let's see, Flaminio, please, show us the mirror of an ancient art.
00:36:17Photography represented a new eye, a different way of seeing reality.
00:36:22And for some, the soul of the deceased, even if it was a child as in this case, remained trapped and present.
00:36:29To discuss all of that, we have experts of the highest caliber.
00:36:33Alfonso García, tenured professor at the University of La Laguna, and also president of the Spanish Society of Thanatology.
00:36:38Fascinating world. Welcome, friend. Good night.
00:36:41Good night.
00:36:42Thank you for all the material you've brought us. Someone will be showing it to us. It's impressive.
00:36:47Gabriel Buñiz, journalist, photographer. Welcome, friend.
00:36:50Thank you very much, welcome.
00:36:51Thank you for doing a fabulous report in Más Allá magazine.
00:36:56which has impressed us and prompted tonight's discussion. Thank you, Gabriel.
00:37:01And, of course, Diego Caballo, editor-in-chief of the graphics department at the legendary EFE news agency,
00:37:08the most important in our country, without a doubt, and professor at the San Pablo CEU University.
00:37:13A man who knows a lot about image, about its power, who is here with us. Good night.
00:37:17Good night.
00:37:17And with the three of us we're going to try, well, to express things, because you no longer exist with me, which is the first thing we...
00:37:24This type of photography is shown
00:37:27It's a kind of rejection, a fear, a dread, and a strange melancholy too, isn't it?
00:37:32We could start, Gabriel, with these images, what exactly are they? Where do they come from? What era might they be from?
00:37:38And why were they done? We don't understand it today.
00:37:41Well, the representation of the deceased has a long history, dating back many centuries, to ancient Egypt and even earlier.
00:37:51Then there were also a number of mask representations, I know, the Maya, with their jade masks,
00:37:59And then plaster masks also became very common.
00:38:04Thanks to plaster masks, we have immortalized the faces of some very important historical figures.
00:38:11Post-mortem photography is really part of post-mortem painting, we could say, which comes from
00:38:20Renaissance.
00:38:22In the Renaissance there is one, from the Renaissance onwards there is a kind of vindication or return,
00:38:29It became especially pronounced from the 19th century onwards, a return somewhat to the sentimentality that surrounded
00:38:37Death in the Middle Ages.
00:38:39We should understand that there is a great fascination with the world of photography at this time,
00:38:44Such a realistic image must have shocked people of that time in a significant way.
00:38:52And then, of course, we are in the midst of Romanticism; there is a very heightened sentimentality surrounding death.
00:39:00Gabriel, perfect presentation, and one thing in case anyone needs it clarified, because it was something that needed clarifying within the team itself.
00:39:05The thing is, this child is dead, that is, it's not a pose of a living child, we're talking about that.
00:39:10of the deceased who somehow wanted to remain present.
00:39:14At first glance, Alfonso, Diego, first impression, first feeling, although you know this world perfectly well,
00:39:21who is now calmly looking at this image and others that we are going to see.
00:39:26What is the first thing that touches the soul when you see these kinds of images?
00:39:31Perhaps, perhaps knowing a little, as may be our case,
00:39:37It makes you think, well, about the way that photograph was taken, which could have been in the place where
00:39:43had died,
00:39:44or it was taken to the photographic studio.
00:39:49Knowing about those preparations, I was saying, perhaps the impact is less, but even so, as soon as I discovered it,
00:39:57The first thing that comes to mind is that total loneliness, absence of life, and also the forced nature of it.
00:40:07It doesn't happen in other photographs, but in this one specifically it does; you can see that there is absolutely nothing of what
00:40:16We understand those life restrictions.
00:40:20Even if they were surrounding him at a certain moment with a serious illness, it's already clear that the child
00:40:30has died.
00:40:30That's the first thing he suggested to me.
00:40:32There are even some decorations, flowers.
00:40:35Alfonso?
00:40:36Yes, really, well, perhaps a really strong and difficult photograph, assimilated, which is what happens with post-photography
00:40:45-mortem.
00:40:45But I think it's also interesting to understand a little about the world in which all of this took place.
00:40:53post-mortem photography,
00:40:55Let's turn to the ideas of Bruno Latour, that is, human beings construct their interobjectivity through understanding
00:41:02objects, people, and instruments.
00:41:05This is how one can construct what one feels and experiences, one's intersubjectivity, how one relates to others.
00:41:10The instrument here is photography. In this case, it has been modified.
00:41:15The child's eyes are open. It is normal for a deceased child to have their eyes closed.
00:41:19And it is, we would say, an anachronism in this photograph.
00:41:21Would they know? Was there a technique, let's say?
00:41:24Yes, yes. In this case it's an artificial construct.
00:41:27Most of the photographs I have of children and of Mexican children,
00:41:32They all have their eyes closed and are in positions that we will see have more to do with religious meanings.
00:41:36of being lying down or dreaming. And regarding the environment, as you rightly pointed out,
00:41:42In this case, they are in a position that resembles life; they are always surrounded by flowers.
00:41:47There are a series of atmospheric symbols that bring it to life, because ultimately what the photography tries to generate is...
00:41:53is
00:41:56that we transmit death. And death, like the body, is transmitted when there is flexion.
00:42:02In other words, there is no movement here, no change of position. Therefore, it is a position that conveys death.
00:42:09And it conveys it clearly. I believe it conveys that situation which, at its core, is the paradigm.
00:42:17of death.
00:42:17That is, the mystery it hides behind. That it goes from this world to a world in which
00:42:23What he seeks is perhaps the magic of death.
00:42:25And speaking of magic, Flaminio, let's put up the second image.
00:42:28Speaking of magic, and we're opening up the debate, you can intervene at any time, because the motivation behind this is to learn.
00:42:34For many people, of course, this is a bit of a taboo. Yes, it remains the last great taboo.
00:42:37In a society where it seems that everything is available, where we are absolutely free to choose anything,
00:42:43Death, you think, remains the last great frontier.
00:42:45And I believe that in those times, the idea of capturing the memento mori, which you called the memory of death,
00:42:52It was as if death was part of everyday life.
00:42:55In Gabriel's report, I read something that surprised me.
00:42:59From the 20th century onwards, cemeteries became increasingly distant, the dead moved further away from the living.
00:43:05But until not too long ago, that union, and we'll see this in the photos, was much more
00:43:10fine.
00:43:10It's interesting now that you mention the expression memento mori; it's important.
00:43:18The expression originated in Rome, it's ancient Latin, and it had a very curious meaning at the time.
00:43:24and it literally meant remember death.
00:43:28Remember death.
00:43:30Remember death.
00:43:31And so it came to mean, it was even used with legionaries,
00:43:36with the legionary generals who came from the victorious campaigns,
00:43:40And they paraded through Rome, triumphant and all, they came as if they were gods.
00:43:46There was even a servant who stood at the back in those parades.
00:43:51And he would whisper these words, or very similar ones, behind her back,
00:43:57which meant, remember death, or turn back,
00:44:00And you'll realize that you're still a man.
00:44:03In a way, it's saying, don't be a god, you're not God.
00:44:08So, it was necessary to remind him.
00:44:10That meaning was lost; it has since been translated as "remember death."
00:44:15Remember me when I die, but that meaning of remember death,
00:44:20It should be, in some way, the one that applies to us, the inhabitants.
00:44:24to the beings of the 21st century, because in some way,
00:44:28That's why these photographs cause us so much repulsion.
00:44:32Because we have completely banished any presence of death.
00:44:35We have turned death into something sterile and distant, something we don't want to see.
00:44:38And if we see it, we want to see it in the other.
00:44:40How can there be psychological doubt?
00:44:42There's an old advertisement, from the end of the 19th century, Diego, that said,
00:44:47We photograph corpses at home for affordable prices.
00:44:51In other words, there was a profession, it must be said.
00:44:53In other words, this thing that impresses us so much was a profession that many people relied on for a living.
00:44:58And then, if you like, we can talk about, impressive, isn't it?, the appearance of,
00:45:01Then you can tell me, Alfonso, why you seem to be asleep.
00:45:04In this case, there are no open eyes if something was being pursued in this kind of age-old dream,
00:45:09Right? Like this girl, for example, who's older now.
00:45:11But there was a job, Diego.
00:45:13Yes, there was an official document, and in relation to what Gabriel was saying,
00:45:17which I find tremendously interesting,
00:45:19I wanted to link the birth of photography a little with life and, of course, with death.
00:45:25In other words, the mystery of photography itself, the black box, the inverted image,
00:45:32Aristotelian observations, which state that images are transmitted,
00:45:37The images pass through and, depending on whether the hole is larger or smaller, they are projected onto the ground.
00:45:43In relation to those beginnings, photography also tries to resemble painting,
00:45:50Therefore, there are some touch-ups, it's colored, it tries to look like watercolor.
00:45:55All of that is also transmitted to the post-mortem portrait.
00:45:59The post-mortem portrait, where in many cases it was the only photo of that person who had just passed away.
00:46:06There was only one photo because it was an expensive system.
00:46:09It was expensive, and so, let's just say that photo proved that that person had lived.
00:46:17So, when someone died, the photographer was called or the deceased was taken to the photographer.
00:46:22The photograph was taken, and that was the photo he remembered, the photo that the family then kept.
00:46:28And he did this either by photographing only the deceased or by placing him in a familiar setting,
00:46:36which could be while having dinner, in quotes, of course, which could be in their favorite corner,
00:46:43It could be with the objects he had wanted.
00:46:47In other words, they were placed in an environment that was the most precious to the person who was there.
00:46:54This image, for example, is quite bucolic, isn't it? Alfonso gives a very different impression of how terrible it was.
00:46:58other,
00:46:59which was very shocking, very impactful, and this is like a young lady who is dreaming.
00:47:03Yes, because that's really what images usually look like.
00:47:07What the photograph was really aiming for was that it wasn't an external device,
00:47:12Rather, it is something that is part of our lives and that tries to capture memory
00:47:15to build from there the story of that being.
00:47:20In fact, we realize that body and death are both the object and subject of the study
00:47:25And the medium we have used is photography.
00:47:27A photograph without technical flourishes, without strange shots, without such unsophisticated lighting.
00:47:33A casual, everyday photograph was what they were looking for.
00:47:36In the case of sleep, it's normal.
00:47:39because what it really captured was the image of that person in the situation they were in.
00:47:42It captured the mystery of the situation.
00:47:45The photography unfolds on a side that would be, we might say, the physical and the animalistic,
00:47:50to one side that would be the opposite, that would be the magic
00:47:55and the side of mystery or the side of the sacred, ultimately.
00:48:01In fact, the ones you mentioned, which are very common,
00:48:03You actually bring some very common and very typical photos of us,
00:48:06In Mexico, in Huayaca, in Jalisco, there are photographers today.
00:48:10Let's see if you can show us the camera, Alfonso.
00:48:13Well, this particular photo is very similar to that one.
00:48:15This one is very much ours, because of course, we'll be talking about photos from European countries.
00:48:21And this one is from a town in the south of Tenerife, San Miguel, 30 years ago.
00:48:25In other words, 30 years ago, in the south of Tenerife, that tradition continued.
00:48:28In fact, we continue to photograph our loved ones.
00:48:33The problem is that this isn't talked about much.
00:48:35That is to say, I currently work with parents who have lost children,
00:48:38Most parents who have lost children have photos of their deceased children.
00:48:41In other words, it's normal.
00:48:42The thing is, it's true that our society seems to give, in quotes,
00:48:47permission to advertise those photos.
00:48:49These are photos that reveal an intimate moment.
00:48:51They are that being who is now in another place, who has transcended.
00:48:54In Van Guenet's approach to rituals, I would say that this world has passed, that it has died.
00:49:00But another world is born.
00:49:01And that is what it faithfully reflects.
00:49:02For example, some from Jalisco, which could be an image of twins who passed away.
00:49:07Twins, that's very rare, isn't it?
00:49:09Yes, also...
00:49:09And always with those decorations that mean something, right?
00:49:12Yeah.
00:49:12In the meantime, let's move on to the next photograph.
00:49:15Decorations, why?
00:49:17Because their livelihood, probably, would be the wake for little angels.
00:49:23A wake for little angels?
00:49:23The wake for little angels, or the dead girl, ultimately, the holy death.
00:49:28The thing is, when a child dies, there's a whole ritual surrounding the death of children.
00:49:33The children are carrying, we see tuberoses, or we see that they have a palm, we see that they have a crown.
00:49:39They are symbols that belong to the church, really to the Catholic Church.
00:49:42They have to do with holiness, with the Virgin, fundamentally with the Virgin Mary, the crown,
00:49:48And with virginity, palm hearts and tuberoses.
00:49:52He is truly a pure child who was born and who, upon dying, transcends.
00:49:57He stops being a child and becomes a little angel.
00:50:00It becomes something sacred.
00:50:02He is the one we will meet later, further down the line.
00:50:04One very curious thing, I'm also going to ask for your first impressions, because here we are faced with another one of the
00:50:08of impact.
00:50:10Gabriel mentioned in his report that initially, and you three know this perfectly well,
00:50:14The photos are very simple, as Alfonso said, very simple.
00:50:18Often the deceased is in a bed or with arms outstretched in a cross position.
00:50:21And little by little, in those portraits, those decorative elements emerge, along with the participation of the family.
00:50:29This is very powerful, it's a very powerful image.
00:50:32There can be few things as intense, as powerful, as tremendous,
00:50:37like a father posing with his son, with his own son who has passed away.
00:50:42But the father's face, the father's face also has a commentary, doesn't it?
00:50:47Not just the child's.
00:50:48The father really catches my attention, doesn't he?
00:50:51Especially knowing that the family itself was the one demanding that they open their eyes, for example.
00:50:58In other words, it wasn't something imposed by the photographer, it wasn't an artistic matter, but rather, in principle...
00:51:03Why was that done, Gabriel?
00:51:04Why was it done openly?
00:51:05Well, in the case of children, especially, because children, particularly in Latin America,
00:51:12Until the age of three or four, the death of a child could be considered a blessing.
00:51:18What we called a party was, in reality, a duel, of course.
00:51:21But a child who died at that young age had a direct passport to heaven, of course.
00:51:29and was considered a kind of guardian angel.
00:51:32A bit of a blessing, isn't it?
00:51:33Yes, that photograph was passing by somewhere, it was like a kind of...
00:51:37It was a relic, and it was like a holy card.
00:51:41Those little cards then circulated from hand to hand.
00:51:43It wasn't something kept private by the family, but rather something that was
00:51:49exhibited.
00:51:49I, in this photo, look very different from what I saw at first.
00:51:56First, we need to understand that photography of this era involved very long exposures,
00:52:04In other words, they had to remain posing for quite some time.
00:52:07Sometimes it was several minutes, sometimes...
00:52:10Sometimes the weather, of course, was uncomfortable for the person posing.
00:52:16So what was happening?
00:52:17That at the moment the camera shot, at that moment was precisely when he closed his eyes, to the
00:52:22better.
00:52:23The good post-mortem portrait, then, was because, among other things,
00:52:27You could stay in the exposure for as long as you wanted.
00:52:31And they were certain that it would always be a good portrait.
00:52:35But in this photo I think we need to distinguish two very clear things, in my opinion.
00:52:39First, the visual impact is on the father, not on the dead girl,
00:52:46even if it is for us the impact of the photograph.
00:52:49Of course, if we cover this photo and then uncover it again,
00:52:53The first thing we see is the father's face, and we don't see it.
00:52:55Let's do it, Flaminio.
00:52:58We'll reveal the impact, so pay close attention.
00:53:00Exactly. Now, when we uncover it, let's all see what the first thing we see is.
00:53:06the first thing we have as an impact on this.
00:53:13After viewing the entire photo, the visual impact on the face is striking.
00:53:18A face of melancholy, resignation, or I don't know.
00:53:20I think that sometimes death was like a kind of relief too.
00:53:27We would need to know about the agony, the illness, how long it would last, etc.
00:53:31And on the other hand, here, the father is more involved in taking the photograph than in the death of the
00:53:37child.
00:53:37The father is absent, that father's face is absent.
00:53:41He's so worried about the pose and how long he has to pose for the camera,
00:53:46There are actually two main sections in photography.
00:53:53The fact of the capture and the death of the child, that is what truly transcends.
00:53:59Let's move on to the next ones.
00:54:01It gives the impression, and it's very curious, it gives the impression that there is a certain moment,
00:54:07For example, in our country, let's talk about Spain,
00:54:08Do you have any data? Is it known when that type of photography stopped being done in Spain?
00:54:12When do photographers of the dead start losing clients?
00:54:15When do you stop wanting to take those kinds of photos?
00:54:18Will there be a turning point?
00:54:19Podemos, Alfonso said, 30 years ago in Ternife,
00:54:24But this was a booming business at one point.
00:54:26When does it end? Why does it end? Is it known?
00:54:29Because, as he mentioned, everyone already has access to the photo.
00:54:32Not that prosthesis, but something that is part of your life,
00:54:35which you can openly use to photograph the living and the dead and your usual situations.
00:54:39When cameras get smaller, imagine, and become more democratic,
00:54:42Everyone has photos of the person when they were alive, right?
00:54:44There's no need to remove this photo anymore, it was probably the only one.
00:54:46But instead, something interesting and different is also developing,
00:54:53And the post-mortem photograph is of an important person,
00:54:56because he is one of the only ones for whom a wake is being held now.
00:54:58In other words, this is being abandoned, but if we remember, for example,
00:55:03a photograph that I think we all have in mind right now,
00:55:08It is the wake for Eugene Smith in Deleitosa,
00:55:12where you can see that group of ladies wearing black scarves.
00:55:16The Spanish wake, right?
00:55:17Exactly.
00:55:18So, it's 1950.
00:55:20I mean, it's not something that's abandoned, as some people think.
00:55:24at the beginning of the 20th century.
00:55:25But it remains.
00:55:26And that at this time, in some parts of Spain as well.
00:55:29If you mention when, I remember about a month ago,
00:55:32A young woman lost both her children in an intensive care unit.
00:55:35And then, after preparing and bathing him, he photographed him.
00:55:39In other words, it's not an element of professionalism.
00:55:41It is an element of intimacy that connects you with your loved one.
00:55:46And these are the ones.
00:55:47The professionals have a different perspective.
00:55:50I believe this is the perspective of the members who are part of it
00:55:53and that they want to have something that connects them,
00:55:55and on what is fundamental, probably,
00:55:57their meanings to give sense to the loss, in this case, of a son.
00:56:01Because, deep down, just by looking at their eyes,
00:56:03We know that they are the parents who have lost their child.
00:56:06It clearly transcends.
00:56:07There's no need...
00:56:07But look at the big difference between this photo and the previous one, of the father.
00:56:11Because?
00:56:11Because here all eyes are turned inwards.
00:56:15The focus is on the girl, she's a girl, isn't she?
00:56:18In the dead girl.
00:56:20In contrast, in the other one, notice the total absence that there was
00:56:23of the father's face in the painting, in the photograph.
00:56:27It's curious because it also gives the impression that there's an attempt,
00:56:31You were talking, Gabriel, about sometimes deceiving death, weren't you?
00:56:34Because even many viewers,
00:56:36If you connect to our program right now,
00:56:38They might think, they might think she's a sleeping child, really.
00:56:40Well, the boundary between life and death is gradually becoming blurred.
00:56:45And when they finally arrive...
00:56:47Because, of course, some of the photographs are very well done.
00:56:49In other cases, the results are pathetic.
00:56:52But there are some with the children with their eyes open
00:56:55and situated in a specific position,
00:56:59with a toy or by reading a book,
00:57:01surrounded by their family, taking the spotlight away from them.
00:57:04There comes a point when you say, well, the boundary between life and death
00:57:07It's completely broken.
00:57:08The feeling that life goes on, somehow.
00:57:10Clear.
00:57:11So, it's cheating death, so to speak.
00:57:15It's a fantasy, of course.
00:57:16But in this case, in the photograph, this photograph is wonderful.
00:57:20This one we just saw.
00:57:21And of course, yes, because we know that she is a dead girl,
00:57:25But in other cases, something similar would happen.
00:57:27That girl who was in the rocking chair earlier,
00:57:29You can show it to anyone...
00:57:31The sleeping girl.
00:57:32And it doesn't cause him...
00:57:32That clearly demonstrates something, doesn't it?
00:57:35In other words, if you...
00:57:36Death itself is not actually ugly.
00:57:40The sight of death itself is not ugly.
00:57:42as long as we remove all those components
00:57:45that make us think of something unpleasant.
00:57:47But if we didn't know, there was no reason why we would.
00:57:50And what do you say about the type of compositions?
00:57:51What do you say?
00:57:52Because this might surprise you.
00:57:54Because, of course, and besides, I think it's practically the 1930s now,
00:57:571920s, 1930s, compositions.
00:58:00Of course, and we all guessed that, right?
00:58:01who is the little brother of all those brothers.
00:58:04One of the clan has appeared, hasn't he?
00:58:06It's very curious that these performances were made
00:58:08that can now truly frighten us because of their impact.
00:58:11But I think the same thing is happening.
00:58:13which happens often on Cuarto Milenio,
00:58:14that the interest of what you are saying
00:58:16It even takes away some of that initial morbid fascination.
00:58:19that there might be from seeing something so shocking.
00:58:21Because it made sense to do this,
00:58:22There was a reason for doing this.
00:58:23Of course, the central metaphor here,
00:58:25Although we speak of death, it is sleep.
00:58:28Because the support is the body.
00:58:30And the body rests.
00:58:32And we would say, it has no movement.
00:58:35In a way, it's not macabre at all.
00:58:37If we start to dwell on the emotional aspect
00:58:40and to the topic of what it meant for the family
00:58:43and to the burden and the change it produced,
00:58:45produced and we sympathized,
00:58:48We would realize that it's tremendous, wouldn't we?
00:58:50But if we only analyze the photo,
00:58:52We discovered that death is simply a situation
00:58:56in which we suddenly disappear to a world,
00:58:58But we are born for another world.
00:58:59And in this case, moreover,
00:59:00His family circle, including his siblings, is his immediate circle.
00:59:03That's quite common at wakes for little angels.
00:59:06at the wakes for little angels.
00:59:07Let the brother appear alive.
00:59:08The living brothers appear, the godparents appear,
00:59:11The younger siblings and their mother appear together, for example.
00:59:15In Mexico, other, more religious elements always appear.
00:59:19And flowers appear that change, we might say,
00:59:22what would be the filth of death,
00:59:25which would be the smell, the smell of twilight.
00:59:26This photo shows the child who died only recently.
00:59:28But in Mexico, some of these, perhaps,
00:59:29They had been dead for six or seven days.
00:59:31And then there was already a smell.
00:59:33But it's like maintaining family unity beyond death.
00:59:36No, it's just saying that our dead
00:59:39they will always be with us
00:59:41and that build our identity
00:59:43and they build our lives
00:59:44And they will be there to welcome us when we are no longer here.
00:59:47Well, some, I think.
00:59:48This one we're going to bring now, Flaminio,
00:59:50I think it's going to be another shock.
00:59:52like the first one we had,
00:59:53because there were all kinds of photographs
00:59:55and the expression that comes from each of them,
00:59:57Well, it's different.
00:59:58And this one, I don't know, you did a wonderful job,
01:00:03Living is not just being alive.
01:00:07You also toured those cenotaphs,
01:00:09roadside shrines that we were talking about not too long ago,
01:00:11Right, Diego?
01:00:12In some countries, death has come at an untimely time.
01:00:15That's what children, for example,
01:00:18The feeling remains that the split
01:00:20It has been too soon
01:00:21and a somewhat strange halo remains there,
01:00:24Some still worship her,
01:00:26and some took photos like this,
01:00:29You have to tell me about this.
01:00:31because it seemed to me, without a doubt,
01:00:32one of the most impressive
01:00:34that exist of post-mortem photos,
01:00:36because it has a whole composition,
01:00:38That's really cheating death.
01:00:41But that individual is already in the afterlife.
01:00:43I don't know if that's the impact.
01:00:44of untimely death.
01:00:45What do you see in this photograph?
01:00:48Which is certainly...
01:00:50Undoubtedly the result is quite bad,
01:00:53the result is quite pathetic
01:00:54because the child's gaze
01:00:56It fails to deceive.
01:00:59That hand in the pocket
01:01:02It's very forced too,
01:01:04the way of sitting.
01:01:04So, you think the intention was to deceive,
01:01:06But isn't the result?
01:01:07The intention was to deceive,
01:01:07But of course, the photographer can control it.
01:01:11The opening of the eyes could be controlled,
01:01:13But for example,
01:01:14and in this case the lips are still there,
01:01:17but due to rigor mortis
01:01:19It was very difficult, for example,
01:01:20Manipulating the lips, right?
01:01:22And even if you placed your eyes
01:01:24in the position you were looking for,
01:01:28It was very difficult to achieve the effect.
01:01:31I think that's precisely why.
01:01:32They are being added
01:01:35Articles and things in the photograph
01:01:38to divert attention a little.
01:01:39and distract.
01:01:41This one is very naked,
01:01:42He is holding a piece of paper for her,
01:01:44It's like it's interrupting the reading,
01:01:47But the result is quite...
01:01:49It's like a doll,
01:01:50Can't you see the position of the feet?
01:01:53This is...
01:01:54Depending on the region of the world
01:01:56where...
01:01:57Because he was actually born in Europe.
01:01:58this custom
01:01:59and it spread to Latin America.
01:02:01It began, as we said before,
01:02:02with the simplest photograph,
01:02:04which was the dead man's
01:02:06in position in bed,
01:02:08surrounded by flowers,
01:02:09if anything,
01:02:10with the arms,
01:02:11with one hand on top of the other,
01:02:12It was eternal rest, wasn't it?
01:02:14What it was trying to symbolize.
01:02:16Little by little, that is being refined.
01:02:17iconographic elements are gradually being combined,
01:02:22the rose turned inside out
01:02:24with the stem cut,
01:02:26in the case that it was a young man
01:02:27the one who had died
01:02:28because of the brevity of life,
01:02:30They even put on,
01:02:31Clocks were used
01:02:33in which the exact time was set
01:02:35in which the model had died.
01:02:39And then it begins to exist
01:02:42an ever-increasing demand
01:02:43and we're getting closer
01:02:44to that border
01:02:45in which one cannot distinguish very well
01:02:48The death of life, isn't it?
01:02:49What are they looking for this time?
01:02:50Speaking of the clock,
01:02:51We'll continue discussing,
01:02:52Let's take this opportunity to,
01:02:53without uncovering this,
01:02:55show these two little ones
01:02:56that we had here,
01:02:57because this would be a little
01:02:58the post-mortem photo today,
01:03:00or some experiments
01:03:04trying to recover,
01:03:04I don't know if the macabre,
01:03:05Now you tell me
01:03:06Who is this individual?
01:03:07And why is he doing this?
01:03:08but with traces of Mordes in Mexico,
01:03:10And we'll leave this for last,
01:03:11because it's very hard,
01:03:12We're going to take both out,
01:03:13exactly the same,
01:03:14one and two,
01:03:15because it surprised me
01:03:16what Gabriel said about the clock,
01:03:17No?,
01:03:17marking the exact time,
01:03:19I didn't know that.
01:03:20in which the individual died.
01:03:23This type of still life
01:03:24absolutely bizarre and macabre,
01:03:26I don't know if they have an artistic sense,
01:03:28if it means reviving this ancient tradition,
01:03:30And if these are the latest samples
01:03:31of this type of art,
01:03:32in quotation marks,
01:03:33photographic,
01:03:33today.
01:03:34I don't know what you think.
01:03:35It's Peter Wittgen, isn't it?
01:03:37Peter Wittgen, really,
01:03:38I think it works
01:03:40whether post-mortem photography
01:03:43work on something,
01:03:44is close to human
01:03:45and close to the sacred,
01:03:47and Peter Wittgen works,
01:03:48we would say, close
01:03:49to what is non-human,
01:03:50Like animals, right?
01:03:51and uses dismemberment.
01:03:52I think it has little to do with it
01:03:53with post-mortem photos.
01:03:54What do you think?
01:03:54What is a simple provocation?
01:03:56which has nothing to do with it,
01:03:57Is it to attract attention?
01:03:58I think it has something to do with it
01:03:58with post-mortem photography,
01:03:59It is not a post-mortem photograph,
01:04:00But it would be the result.
01:04:03from the rejection of post-mortem photography.
01:04:05To us in the post-mortem photograph
01:04:07we see morbid curiosity,
01:04:08And that gentleman, that artist,
01:04:10It's exploiting that morbid curiosity.
01:04:12What we did want tonight,
01:04:13in the company of these three friends
01:04:15and experts,
01:04:16It's to dust off,
01:04:17as Flaminio has done today,
01:04:18thank you,
01:04:20removing the black cloths
01:04:21of an old taboo,
01:04:23which was a trade,
01:04:24And I believe that,
01:04:25Despite that awe,
01:04:27that has affected everyone
01:04:28And it gives us something when we see it,
01:04:30as you're commenting
01:04:31And as we see,
01:04:32I think we're connecting.
01:04:33with the old spirit,
01:04:35that it wasn't so macabre,
01:04:36that this type of work caused,
01:04:38which was to continue being with our loved ones,
01:04:40that they didn't leave completely,
01:04:41and that they remained there,
01:04:43and above all,
01:04:44that now lost concept
01:04:45that death is part of existence,
01:04:47of reality,
01:04:48that it shouldn't be hidden.
01:04:49It will be a pleasure to chat again.
01:04:50in a room like this,
01:04:51of such interesting things as these, Diego.
01:04:53Diego, Gabriel, Alfonso,
01:04:55It's a pleasure, truly.
01:04:56Thank you to all three of you.
01:04:57Thank you so much.
01:04:57Thank you to all three of you.
01:04:58And now,
01:04:59Look at that connection, right?
01:05:00Let's look at these photos
01:05:01from about 100 years ago
01:05:03to the current ones,
01:05:04those that you command,
01:05:05photos from Cuarto Milenio.
01:05:17It's time to move on
01:05:18of post-mortem photographs,
01:05:20photographs
01:05:21from ancient times,
01:05:23daguerreotypes,
01:05:24that sepia tone
01:05:25which is also impressive,
01:05:27to the most modern technology.
01:05:28Analyze on this magic screen
01:05:30some photos
01:05:31that you send us
01:05:32and that also have the mystery,
01:05:34as we just saw them
01:05:34in our exhibition,
01:05:36in our auction,
01:05:37in quotation marks.
01:05:38Well,
01:05:38This was sent by Elisa Quintero,
01:05:40It was obtained in Westford,
01:05:42in Ireland,
01:05:43And I think it is
01:05:44of the mysterious,
01:05:45Carmen.
01:05:46A photograph
01:05:47very interesting,
01:05:48the one that reached us
01:05:49to our email address.
01:05:50You already know there are two ways
01:05:51contact
01:05:52where can they send us?
01:05:53photographs like this,
01:05:55also their dreams,
01:05:55their experiences,
01:05:57fourth millennium
01:05:57at4.com
01:05:59and the post office box
01:06:0118189
01:06:01with the postal code of Madrid
01:06:0428080.
01:06:05And we're going to analyze
01:06:06this photograph
01:06:07for what we don't have
01:06:08an explanation.
01:06:10We are seeing
01:06:11a meeting of friends,
01:06:13a trip,
01:06:14They had left,
01:06:14If I remember correctly,
01:06:15Mariker,
01:06:15to Ireland.
01:06:17Westford.
01:06:18And here we see
01:06:18how are they taking something
01:06:20in one place,
01:06:21well,
01:06:21full of nature,
01:06:22But there is an anomaly.
01:06:24We're going to outline,
01:06:26Here it is,
01:06:27We're going to illuminate the area
01:06:28where a face appears
01:06:29which seems to be
01:06:31of a woman.
01:06:32We see it here
01:06:33like a nebula,
01:06:34That too, right?
01:06:34Let's see if we can expand,
01:06:35Carmen,
01:06:36the nebula.
01:06:37Let's get to work
01:06:38There it is
01:06:39framed for viewing,
01:06:41so that they can see it perfectly.
01:06:42There's the group of friends.
01:06:44that is there peacefully.
01:06:45And Guillermo León
01:06:46It also reminded us,
01:06:47that one very similar
01:06:48we received in the first season
01:06:50from Cuarto Milenio.
01:06:51Gee,
01:06:51It looks like he's laughing.
01:06:53It was at a wedding, wasn't it?
01:06:53Yeah.
01:06:54And there was a character
01:06:55that he wasn't invited.
01:06:57Here again,
01:06:58It also seems to be
01:06:59who is a woman.
01:07:01We even see
01:07:01big eyes
01:07:03as if they were
01:07:03empty basins,
01:07:06the hair.
01:07:06Blacks.
01:07:07And this,
01:07:08the body that is already lost,
01:07:10It is lost in extreme brightness.
01:07:12And also the feeling
01:07:13that if you keep moving away,
01:07:15It's perfectly visible.
01:07:16There it has been given
01:07:16a kind of volume.
01:07:17We applied more filters,
01:07:18look,
01:07:18volume filters.
01:07:20We see that this figure
01:07:21It has no volume,
01:07:22that is flat.
01:07:22It's there.
01:07:23Compared to people
01:07:25that are right below.
01:07:27Guillermo told us
01:07:28which it could be,
01:07:29probably,
01:07:30as always happens,
01:07:31that at the last moment
01:07:31someone will remove
01:07:33from the photograph,
01:07:34TRUE?
01:07:34Uh-huh.
01:07:35But in this case,
01:07:36after analyzing
01:07:38thoroughly
01:07:38the image...
01:07:39Look, look.
01:07:40Here we have the face.
01:07:41It's visible there.
01:07:42...to expand it
01:07:43up to the maximum,
01:07:44as we are seeing,
01:07:45we have not been able to identify
01:07:46to the person
01:07:47which could be
01:07:48some of those that were
01:07:49seated at the table,
01:07:50that they put
01:07:50the camera
01:07:52So that they all left,
01:07:53They know what to expect
01:07:54a few seconds
01:07:54and one sits down
01:07:56to go out too
01:07:57in the photograph.
01:07:58In this case,
01:07:58Guillermo says,
01:07:59that couldn't be either.
01:08:00Therefore,
01:08:01another of the photographs
01:08:03that are inside
01:08:04of which we have not
01:08:05I was able to explain.
01:08:06Well,
01:08:06So we said goodbye
01:08:07today's program.
01:08:09This great series
01:08:10of photographs,
01:08:11the image of mystery,
01:08:12protagonist once again,
01:08:14And see it,
01:08:15that powerful contrast
01:08:16among the photos
01:08:17from yesterday
01:08:18and today's.
01:08:19With their help,
01:08:20with their constant collaboration,
01:08:22We will continue to have tests.
01:08:24to analyze,
01:08:24in this case,
01:08:25It's not bad at all,
01:08:26two photos
01:08:26that we cannot explain.
01:08:28As I was saying,
01:08:29this week's harvest
01:08:30It has been very good.
01:08:33Let's hope the next one
01:08:34the same thing happens to us
01:08:35and let's all be here
01:08:36waiting for a solution.
01:08:38Sometimes we can't find it.
01:08:39In seven days,
01:08:40everyone here,
01:08:41We look forward to seeing you.
01:08:42in our beloved
01:08:43mystery ship.
01:09:10Subscribe to the channel!
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