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On this broadcast of Battle Cry on India Today, host Gaurav Sawant convenes Lieutenant General Raj Shukla, Air Marshal M Matheswaran, and Sandeep Unnithan to assess how artificial intelligence, autonomous systems, and drone swarms are transforming contested battlefields.
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00:15Hello and welcome to a special edition of Battlecry. I'm Gaurav Savan. We're talking about the latest in warfare across
00:21the world and emerging technologies that are shaping the battlefield and the outcome.
00:27The US and the UK have test launched a torpedo from a US Navy extra large unmanned underwater vehicle as
00:36a concept trial. And this was done at the British Underwater Test and Evaluation Centre in Scotland earlier this week.
00:44The Royal Navy's experimental XLUUV XV Excalibur launched a US Mark 48 heavyweight torpedo at the British Underwater Test and
00:59Evaluation Centre.
01:00The trial, according to the UK, validated mechanical, electrical and software integration of a US kinetic payload onto an allied
01:12autonomous vessel.
01:14Unmanned systems. Are they now shaping not just the course but also the outcome of war across the world?
01:23From the Iran-US-Israel war in West Asia to the Russia-Ukraine conflict in Europe and of course increasingly
01:32playing a critical role closer home along our northern and our western borders.
01:38Take, for example, the Shahid 136. Now, this Iranian-designed one-way kamikaze drone mass deployed by Russia to strike
01:46critical infrastructure and exhaust Ukraine's air defence systems.
01:51Shahid 131. Smaller. Again, Iranian-supplied kamikaze drones used for precision and saturation strikes.
01:58By Raktor TB2. The Turkish-manufactured combat drones used effectively by Ukraine in the early stages of the invasion against
02:06the armoured columns and supply lines of Russia.
02:09Or the Ukrainian FPV and quadcopter drones. We saw these images that went viral across the world.
02:16Mass-produced first-person view and adapted commercial quadcopters used extensively for trench attacks.
02:25Tactical reconnaissance and even destroying heavy armour.
02:29Then, similarly, if we were to talk about what the Israelis are using, the Hermes 900 or the 450, Israeli
02:37-operated medium-multitude, long-endurance, unmanned aerial systems for intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, even mission strikes.
02:43So, the Heron, Israeli intelligence and surveillance UAVs, they've been used for regional theatre monitoring.
02:50Or the MQ-9B Reapers, the US turboprop, medium-multitude, long-endurance UAVs deployed for surveillance and targeted operations.
02:59Or the Lucas loitering drones, US countermeasure and strike loitering drones deployed via task force in West Asia.
03:09Now, closer hope, both before and post-Operation Sindur, the Indian Armed Forces are moving on a war footing on
03:16unmanned systems for the Army, Navy and Air Force.
03:19However, is the pace fast enough?
03:23Because the big question is, you don't just have to move with the system, but you have to stay ahead
03:30of the curve.
03:31And which brings us to that big question of the day.
03:33The Ukraine war and the Iran-US war have introduced us to the concept of precision mass.
03:40Is this here to stay?
03:42Or is that something that can be overcome with better defences?
03:45For example, ground-based lasers of the kind that's already been deployed along the Strait of Hormuz.
03:51Will robots completely take over hazardous missions or very difficult missions in contested battlefield?
03:58Can they make up, for example, shortfall of either submarines or fighter jets or even ground systems like tanks?
04:08Do we need a new doctrine to integrate robots or autonomous systems with our fighting arms in the Army, Navy
04:16and Air Force?
04:16And where are we on these multiple fronts?
04:19Joining me on this special broadcast, Lieutenant General Raj Shukla, former Army Commander
04:24and a commentator par excellence on future warfare.
04:29Air Marshal Matheshwaran, former Debris Chief of Integrated Defence Staff,
04:33someone who's looking at autonomous systems very closely,
04:36and my colleague Sandeep Unnithan.
04:38And General Shukla, may I begin by asking you, sir,
04:41Ukraine's Defence Ministry spoke of unmanned missions
04:45that rose from 2,900 in November 2025 to more than 9,000 in March 2026.
04:53Are machines increasingly taking over or at least augmenting tasks that were traditionally performed by soldiers?
05:01And is AI enabled multiple unmanned systems operating in tandem and changing this battlefield?
05:08Gaurav, you know what, all the instances that you recounted are actually a consequence of what I call
05:18is a national security epoch.
05:20It is one in two to three century moments of military technological revolution.
05:28It is as big as that.
05:30Now, let me just reinforce it with three data sets,
05:34and I'll just take one minute thereafter to make a comment.
05:38It is my observation that multi-billion dollar weapon programs
05:44that take five years to plan and deliver
05:48are getting defeated by technological innovation
05:52in front lines in a matter of four to six weeks.
05:57Admiral Paparo, the CNC of IPECOM,
06:01one of the few chaps in the American military
06:03who seems to have got it, has said this.
06:07He says,
06:08I have taken inspiration from Ukraine and Epic Fury
06:12of the fact that low-cost, cheap, precise drones and missiles
06:17are outperforming sophisticated interceptors,
06:21costly ships, and expensive cutting-edge fighters.
06:26To do what?
06:26He has decided to make the Taiwan Strait 355 into 150-odd kilometers
06:35into a hellscape of drone warfare.
06:39If I may quote him directly, he says,
06:43today for a Taiwan contingency,
06:45we need not gain air or maritime superiority of a space.
06:50We only need to deny it through the use of drones to the aggressor.
06:56Now, I haven't seen in my 30-40 years of service
07:00a moment as momentous as this.
07:03So just let me make just three, four points
07:06and then I'll yield the floor to a Marshall Mateshwaran.
07:09See, what is happening is that technologies today
07:13are scaling more rapidly than organizations.
07:17Technologies seem to have arrived,
07:19but the military doctrines have yet to find their feet.
07:23So look what's happening in the civil space
07:25and the military space.
07:27Amazon, which started off as an online book marketplace,
07:31online retailer,
07:32today is an AI company which is delivering drones
07:35to 500 cities in the United States.
07:39Xiaomi, which started off as a Chinese mobile company,
07:45switches to EVs,
07:47captures the European car market,
07:48is now doing robotics
07:50and is powering dark factories to manufacture ammunition.
07:56So HAL and BL, in my view,
07:59must make a similar swivel
08:00to become AI companies in their niche domains.
08:04And if I may just take 15 seconds more,
08:07Saronic, which is in this business
08:10of AI-enabled autonomous boats and factories,
08:14have just set up a shipyard
08:18of autonomous boats and ships,
08:22800 acres, $9.2 billion.
08:25And these robots are different
08:27because they don't perform repetitive tasks,
08:30but through recursive learning of AI,
08:32they constantly adapt and learn
08:35from the combat environment.
08:37Amazing.
08:38So it's not just artificial intelligence,
08:40it's artificial generative intelligence.
08:43And robotics.
08:45And why should Chinese,
08:47because they are ahead in robotics,
08:49they are challenging LLMs.
08:51Because LLMs is based on training of data,
08:54while robotics,
08:56they adapt and learn from the combat environment.
08:59So I can give dozens of more examples,
09:02and therefore I think we are in a real epoch,
09:05but I would love to hear
09:06what A. Marshall Mateshwaran has to say.
09:08Oh, absolutely.
09:09So speed.
09:10We need speed.
09:11We need to move really fast.
09:14A. Marshall Mateshwaran,
09:15are we already in the age of robotic warfare,
09:18and how this could fundamentally change
09:21the way wars are fought
09:23now and in the future?
09:26Absolutely.
09:27And I really agree with General Shukta,
09:30General Shukta.
09:31And we are at a very critical,
09:35or I would say revolutionary time frame,
09:39where the character of war
09:42is undergoing tremendous changes.
09:44So there are a few points that I would flag.
09:47You know, from the 1991,
09:50was a demonstration of New Age warfare.
09:54And, you know, the world went to town with,
09:57you know,
09:59debating the revolution in military affairs
10:02and revolution in warfare.
10:03Right?
10:04And that was all about precision weapons
10:08and ISR maturity in technologies.
10:12And therefore you have the principles of war
10:14which talks about, you know,
10:17concentration of force and mass.
10:20So that was given a different...
10:22It was turned on its head
10:24because as an eccentric warfare took shape,
10:27and now you are looking at, you know,
10:30getting your ability to have a real-time
10:33situational awareness
10:34and put your precision weapons on target
10:37effectively,
10:38which means smaller force
10:40can actually cover a much larger area
10:42and put that, you know,
10:45whole thing effectively,
10:47the weapons effectively onto the target.
10:49The implication of that was
10:51that the forces can now
10:53do much more with lesser number of weapons,
10:56but highly effective precision weapons
10:59and very, very costly weapons.
11:02Right?
11:02The fighters will have to have systems
11:04and the weapons themselves
11:06are very, very expensive.
11:07All that is, again,
11:08now being turned on its head
11:10with the maturity of the smaller drones.
11:13You know,
11:14the first-person-view drones
11:17and the way Ukraine actually
11:20broke that entire,
11:22you know,
11:23the stranglehold of great powers
11:25and much stronger military powers
11:27being able to rush through their country.
11:29the whole thing was, you know,
11:31turned around
11:32only because they had,
11:34one,
11:36the advantage of space-based
11:39situational awareness capability
11:41by the Americans
11:42and the enormous
11:43Starlink systems providing them.
11:45But more importantly,
11:46they were using the drones
11:48provided by Turkey
11:49as well as a few others.
11:51Ukraine itself had,
11:52I had visited Ukraine in 2016
11:54when this Donbass war was going on
11:55and they had demonstrated,
11:57they in fact claimed at that stage
11:58that these drones are going to make
12:00a major difference
12:01and they also claimed that our...
12:03And they've shown it,
12:03they've shown it between 2022 and 2026.
12:06We've seen it on ground
12:07from the testbed to the battlefield.
12:09It's happening in weeks
12:10and Sandeep,
12:11we saw a Chinese robotic competition,
12:14Sandeep.
12:15Some may have mocked it then,
12:17but isn't that not the future of combat?
12:20It is the combat that we will see.
12:23For example,
12:24on our northern borders
12:25in ultra-high altitude,
12:27it's these robots
12:28who could well be fighting
12:30the next war?
12:31Absolutely, Gaurav.
12:32And what we're seeing now
12:34is literally an epoch
12:35as our panelists were saying,
12:37General Shukla
12:37and Marshal Matej
12:40were speaking about this
12:41as an epoch in warfare.
12:43It is the single biggest transformation
12:45in warfighting
12:46since the atomic bomb of 1945
12:48in the last 80 years or so.
12:50So, you know,
12:51and the landmarks
12:52are literally coming up
12:54every few months.
12:55Like you mentioned,
12:56the XLUUV,
12:57which launched a Mark 48
12:58ADCAP torpedo,
13:00Gaurav,
13:01that is a torpedo
13:02which is fired
13:03by nuclear-powered attack submarines.
13:05It carries almost a quarter
13:06of a ton of high explosives.
13:09That is now being fired
13:11by robot submarines.
13:14You've seen drones launching
13:16surface-to-air missiles,
13:19UCAVs launching air-to-air missiles.
13:21This is a kind of transformation
13:22in warfare that we've not seen.
13:24Now, the Indian Armed Forces
13:26are also adapting to this.
13:27Air Chief Marshal AP Singh
13:29mentioned that
13:30during Operation Sindur,
13:31the biggest change was
13:32that drones went from being
13:34eyes in the sky
13:36to claws in the sky.
13:38So that was a big fundamental shift.
13:39And what we are seeing
13:40with the armed forces, Gaurav,
13:42is that the induction of drones
13:44over the last one year,
13:46the programs that we're seeing
13:47over the next five years,
13:48worth over $10 billion.
13:50That's one of the biggest
13:52transformations in capabilities
13:55in all the three services
13:56since the induction
13:57of the BrahMos missile
13:58nearly two decades ago.
13:59So we must not discount
14:03the possibility of, you know,
14:04robots, soldiers,
14:07robot soldiers
14:08with conventional soldiers,
14:10you know,
14:10coming over the Himalayas
14:12at us in a future conflict situation
14:15because robots don't get tired.
14:17They don't have to be acclimatized.
14:19They can fight tirelessly.
14:21What we're looking at
14:22as small quadcopters
14:24could soon become
14:25what we are seeing on screen now,
14:26Gaurav,
14:28mules,
14:29robot mules
14:29armed with machine guns,
14:31carrying portable artillery.
14:33These are very real scenarios
14:36that we are faced with, Gaurav.
14:38And we need to do this now,
14:40should have done it
14:40as on yesterday,
14:42and continue to reform
14:43or keep developing
14:44to stay ahead of the curve
14:46because General Shukla,
14:47this impacts us directly
14:49on our northern borders,
14:51on our western borders.
14:53Robots,
14:53as Sandeep was just pointing out,
14:54they don't need acclimatization,
14:56they don't need tire,
14:57they don't need,
14:58you know,
14:58they don't get tired,
14:59just change the batteries
15:01and they're good to go
15:02for a long duration.
15:03But is the adversary,
15:05at least on the northern borders,
15:07way ahead?
15:09So,
15:10I'll give you some data pieces
15:11and then let's decide.
15:12Look at the number of drones.
15:14This year,
15:15Ukraine,
15:168 million drones.
15:18Russia,
15:19having learned the lessons,
15:20turned the Shahid
15:21into a,
15:22you know,
15:22jet engine-powered Shahid
15:24under the Jeren program,
15:2610 million drones.
15:28The United States,
15:29they are behind,
15:31only 22,000 this year.
15:32Drone dominance initiatives,
15:3470 billion dollars,
15:36almost as large
15:37as the Indian defense budget.
15:38And this is the mind-boggling figure.
15:41China,
15:421 billion armed drones
15:44per year already.
15:46So,
15:46look at this.
15:47Second example.
15:48Could you have ever imagined
15:50on the 26th of February
15:53that Iran,
15:54with just 5,000 missiles,
15:57but 35 missile cities,
15:59carefully engineered
16:00with those Shahid drones,
16:03would strike at the root
16:04of American military power
16:06and highlight those 16 bases?
16:09Their aircraft carrier
16:10was left without a port of call?
16:12This is the power of asymmetry.
16:15So,
16:16the point that I really want
16:17to make is that
16:17we are doing a lot,
16:19as Sandeep said,
16:20but we haven't quite grasped
16:22the scale
16:23of the adaptation challenge.
16:24I would assert
16:25that the adaptation challenge
16:27is bigger
16:28than the China challenge.
16:30And if I may make
16:31one last point,
16:32such drones,
16:34dronery,
16:34cannot be procured.
16:36We need to really realize
16:38this in procurement.
16:39The Russians,
16:40under what they call
16:41a BFFB,
16:43Battlefield Feedback Program,
16:45not GSQR,
16:47developed,
16:48took a very raw Shahid,
16:50improved its navigations,
16:52communications,
16:54you know,
16:54the explosive stuff
16:56and all that,
16:57to make it into,
16:58so the concept is
17:01take a reasonable system,
17:04reiterate it continuously,
17:06and make it sophisticated.
17:07Not wait for the perfect system
17:09to induct.
17:10So these are the changes
17:12and dronery is complementing
17:14piloted air power.
17:15They are not contrarian impulses.
17:17And the ideal man
17:19to put these concepts under
17:21is somebody of the intellect
17:22and caliber of
17:23A. Marshall Mateshwaran.
17:24I have known him for years.
17:26We just need these kind of
17:28minds and voices.
17:29Oh, absolutely.
17:30Again, I come back to the point.
17:32Speed, skill and scale.
17:35A. Marshall Mateshwaran,
17:36when we look at future wars
17:38and future wars
17:39that we are looking at combating,
17:41and when you look at
17:43what's happening in Russia
17:43and Ukraine
17:44or Iran versus U.S.,
17:46do we need more
17:48mass-produced drones
17:50and less ultra-expensive
17:53fighter jets,
17:54more long-range missiles,
17:56more autonomous swarm drones
17:58than very expensive,
18:00but a fewer number
18:01of fighter jets?
18:04Well, Gaurav,
18:05we already have
18:07very few numbers
18:07and there is no question
18:09of sacrificing that part.
18:12But the most important point,
18:15as General Shukla pointed out,
18:16is the numbers.
18:17And the drones
18:18and the robotics
18:19provide you,
18:20at much lesser cost,
18:21a mass
18:23which will make
18:24a tremendous difference
18:26because they also bring in
18:27precision,
18:27they also bring in
18:28swarming
18:29and multi-directional
18:31approach to any battlefield.
18:33And therefore,
18:34the ability
18:35to actually scale up,
18:38firstly adapt
18:39and understand
18:40what the drone aspect
18:43and the artificial intelligence
18:44and the robotics
18:46are bringing onto the table.
18:47And therefore,
18:48your operational philosophy
18:49will have to adapt
18:50to that impact,
18:52firstly.
18:53And then,
18:54you will be able
18:54to balance
18:55the high-cost
18:56weapon systems
18:58with what will be
18:59more required
19:01in terms of
19:02larger numbers
19:03of drones
19:03and larger numbers
19:04of low-cost
19:05precision weapons.
19:06Now,
19:07what Ukraine
19:07and Iran
19:10has proved
19:10is that
19:11the asymmetric strategy
19:12with these changes
19:14has actually
19:15made a massive impact.
19:17So,
19:18a smaller
19:18state,
19:20a smaller weapon,
19:21a smaller nation state
19:22with lesser military capability
19:25in a conventional sense,
19:26but great capability
19:28in these segments
19:29of drone,
19:30artificial intelligence
19:30and robotics
19:31can actually withstand
19:33a bigger path
19:34quite effectively
19:35as Iran has actually proved.
19:37So,
19:37this is extremely important.
19:38This is something
19:38we have to do.
19:39Yeah.
19:40Keep scaling up.
19:41Keep improving.
19:42Mark 1,
19:42Mark 2,
19:43Mark 3.
19:44Sandeep,
19:44the way nature of warfare
19:45is changing,
19:46are we changing
19:48that fast
19:49to stay ahead
19:50of the curve?
19:51Again,
19:51that big question
19:53that the country
19:53is grappling with,
19:55do we need
19:55those gigantic
19:56aircraft carrier
19:57strike groups
19:58or focus more
19:59on submarines,
20:02undersea,
20:03unmanned
20:03underwater vehicles?
20:05How do we
20:06dominate
20:06the battlefield,
20:08whether on ground,
20:09in air,
20:10in space,
20:11and of course
20:11underwater?
20:13No question about it,
20:15Gaurav.
20:15We need both.
20:16We need both
20:17the manned platforms
20:18and the unmanned platforms.
20:19The manned platforms
20:20will serve as motherships.
20:22They will control
20:23these swarms.
20:24So we have concepts
20:25of a single soldier
20:27controlling 20
20:28and hundreds
20:29and then thousands
20:30of drones.
20:31So that kind of
20:32manned,
20:32unmanned teaming
20:33is what is being
20:33spoken about.
20:35But we need
20:36these programs
20:37to come in
20:38very quickly,
20:38Gaurav.
20:39A lot of our programs
20:40are in development.
20:41They're taking
20:41several years.
20:43The Excalibur
20:44that you're seeing
20:44on screen now,
20:45that was implemented
20:47in seven months,
20:48Gaurav.
20:48They began developing
20:49that in the beginning
20:50of 2026,
20:52around February.
20:53Within seven months,
20:54it's already fired
20:55a heavyweight torpedo.
20:56We need to look at
20:57quick turnaround solutions
20:58like this,
20:59and we have to do
21:00this quickly.
21:01The big gap
21:03that I see,
21:03as General Shukla
21:05was mentioning,
21:06we have to produce
21:07them in numbers.
21:08We unfortunately
21:08still do not have
21:10a large mass production
21:12program to produce
21:13these drones
21:14in the millions.
21:15We're still
21:16acquiring them,
21:17producing them
21:18in the thousands,
21:19in the tens of thousands,
21:20not in the millions,
21:21because you will be faced,
21:24we already have
21:25two live borders
21:26to the north
21:26and to the west,
21:27and our adversaries
21:28are going to look at this
21:29as a vulnerability
21:30and start building up numbers.
21:33We're already talking
21:33about a single-fused front
21:35in the future.
21:37Who knows?
21:37There could be millions
21:38of drones coming at us.
21:39We need to fight them
21:40on an equal footing,
21:43and for that,
21:43we need a very long
21:44large program.
21:44and the counter-drone systems.
21:46Absolutely.
21:47Again, speed, skill,
21:49and scale.
21:51General Shukla,
21:52are we doing this
21:53fast enough?
21:54Are we unable
21:55to do it fast enough?
21:56Are we still grappling
21:57with it,
21:57with a 20th century
21:59mindset that,
22:01you know,
22:01if we mass produce
22:02right now,
22:03if technology changes,
22:05are we in a position
22:06to scale up fast enough?
22:08Are we still grappling
22:09with a lot of these issues?
22:12The transformations
22:13are so huge
22:14that there are
22:15no easy answers.
22:16So I would strongly
22:17advocate the constitution
22:19of a case,
22:20Sugramaniam-type committee,
22:21which looks,
22:23you know,
22:24in a fast-paced manner
22:25over four to five,
22:26six months
22:26at the scale
22:28of the change
22:29that is required,
22:30a doctrinal,
22:30strategic reset.
22:32And see,
22:33why do I say that?
22:34Look how complex
22:35AD geometries
22:36are getting.
22:37The Americans
22:38could intercept
22:39much of the Iranian missiles,
22:41but they were
22:42hapless,
22:43helpless against the drones.
22:44The Ukrainians,
22:45in contrast,
22:46have been able to,
22:47because of the Merov system,
22:51intercept many
22:52of the Russian drones,
22:53but have been
22:54absolutely helpless,
22:55hapless,
22:56because they don't have
22:57Patriot interceptors.
22:58In the face
22:59of the Chinese
23:00rocket force challenge,
23:02their lexicon
23:03has to be
23:04missile defense.
23:06Defense from space,
23:07space-based interceptors,
23:09space-based missiles,
23:12hypersonics.
23:13So I think
23:14the scale of the change
23:16is so huge.
23:17It is beyond
23:17the service headquarters.
23:19It needs
23:19the national security
23:20community
23:21in that
23:22Subramaniam kind of
23:24moment to come together.
23:25And this is not
23:26just a challenge
23:26which faces India.
23:28This is a global
23:29national security epoch.
23:31So I will just
23:32end up by
23:33reasserting
23:33that the adaptation
23:35challenge is the
23:36biggest.
23:37Because we need
23:38cultural,
23:38structural,
23:39virtual reimagination
23:40of national security.
23:42It's nobody's fault.
23:43This is how
23:44the geopolitics
23:46and national security
23:47have evolved.
23:48so...
23:48Absolutely.
23:50You know,
23:51even when you look
23:51at the United States,
23:52the United States
23:53with 11 aircraft
23:54carrier strike groups
23:56with all their
23:57aircraft and the
23:58F-35s
23:59with the,
24:00you know,
24:00F-22s,
24:01they weren't able
24:02to deal
24:03as effectively
24:05with Iran.
24:06And Iran doesn't
24:07have an air force
24:07to talk of at all,
24:08eh,
24:09Marshal Mateshwaran?
24:09So that battlefield
24:10has changed so fast,
24:12America wasn't able
24:13to adapt to the
24:14new battlefield.
24:15But,
24:16you know,
24:16the challenges,
24:17I'd like to flag it
24:18with an example.
24:19Just a few days back,
24:20the government
24:21signed a contract
24:22for 810 crores
24:24for the saw weapons,
24:25right?
24:25Yes.
24:26That's a position weapon.
24:28And that's an important
24:30development for us
24:31to understand the,
24:32we are turning the corner.
24:34That's the most
24:36satisfying,
24:36you know,
24:37message I can give.
24:38You see,
24:39we looked at the
24:40spice weapon
24:41which we used
24:41in Balakot
24:42and the thing.
24:44But we saw the spice weapon
24:45first in 2005.
24:48By the time we procurated
24:49it as 2013,
24:5014,
24:5115 time frames.
24:52And the second lot
24:52came later.
24:53Right?
24:54So,
24:55the saw is a takeoff,
24:58at least we've learned
24:59from it
24:59and we've developed
25:00our own weapon.
25:01And faster, yes.
25:03While we have
25:04electronics in control,
25:05et cetera,
25:06the biggest challenge
25:06were the seeker heads
25:08and the integration
25:09into the platforms,
25:10et cetera.
25:11And now,
25:12I think it's,
25:13I'm quite happy
25:14to see that
25:14the saw with the
25:17electro-optical
25:18and imaging infrared
25:19seeker head
25:20is our own design
25:21one that's actually
25:22fitted on it
25:22is a good development.
25:24But we need to
25:25accelerate the whole process.
25:26We need to accelerate
25:27the set drive process.
25:28But it's taken now
25:2920 years for us
25:31to reach the stage.
25:33We need to cut that down
25:34to lesser time frames
25:36and wherein,
25:37I think,
25:37it needs a national effort
25:39in terms of understanding
25:40the research nuances.
25:41It requires a national effort.
25:42You're absolutely right.
25:44Last 30 seconds
25:45that I have on this part
25:45of the show.
25:46General Shukla,
25:46you wanted to come in, sir.
25:48Yeah,
25:48two quick points.
25:49You know,
25:50the U.S. military
25:51internal Pentagon assessment
25:53which has just come out
25:55or, sorry,
25:55it's got leaked
25:56says that the United States
25:59may be unprepared
26:00for a Taiwan contingency
26:02because it failed
26:03to make the transition
26:04to precise mass.
26:06The U.S. Navy
26:07got down 160
26:09Iranian naval ships
26:11but is unable
26:12to operate
26:13in the strait
26:13because it is not
26:14small enough,
26:15agile enough,
26:16autonomous enough.
26:18Air Chief Marshall Brown
26:19when he was the Air Chief,
26:20I was a mere colonel then,
26:21he steered this concept
26:23of a trial service
26:25space command
26:26and we were foolish
26:27enough to stall it.
26:29These are the consequences
26:31of, you know,
26:33shall I say,
26:35narrow ideation.
26:36Our principal challenge
26:38is ideation
26:39and if we can get
26:39the ideation right,
26:41the rest will flow.
26:41Absolutely.
26:42Oh, absolutely.
26:43Just think big,
26:44think future
26:45and implement quickly.
26:47We can continue
26:47to keep scaling it
26:48up but let's just
26:49start implementing
26:50perhaps is that
26:51the need of the
26:53current challenges
26:54and the future threats.
26:56I want to thank
26:57all our guests.
26:57Wonderful conversation.
26:59Perhaps we need
26:59a lot more conversation
27:00like this in the days
27:02and weeks ahead
27:02and Battlecry
27:03is your platform
27:04in India Today
27:05for that concept
27:06on matters military.
27:08General Shukla,
27:09Air Marshal,
27:09Matheshwaran
27:10and Sandeepun Neetan
27:11as always,
27:11many thanks for joining me.
27:13A quick break.
27:14News and updates
27:15continue on India Today.
27:17Stay with us.
27:17I, too.
27:29I have a chance
27:31I don't know if I'm
27:32a Finn today.
27:32If I find this
27:32Have a thrill.