- 29 minutes ago
Trainer Graham Motion joins this week’s TDN Writers’ Room to talk E.P. Taylor winner Gimme a Nother, as well as a bonanza start to the Keeneland September Sale. The Writers’ Room team also debriefed Notable Speech’s Woodbine Mile victory and looked ahead to Forever Young’s bid in this weekend’s Jockey Club Gold Cup Stakes.
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00:00:18Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room presented by Keeneland.
00:00:23My name is Bill Finley, but you already know that because you've been watching this podcast
00:00:26for quite some time, and we appreciate that. And I also write for the TDN. I'm a correspondent,
00:00:33and I co-host the Down the Stretch radio show every week with a legendary, and I do mean
00:00:38legendary, Dave Johnson. Hola, mi amigo Bill. Mi nombre es Randolfo Moss of NBC Sports and the
00:00:47Buyer's Speed Figure team. Thought I'd insert a little culture, multicultural introduction there.
00:00:53Hola, mi llamo Soy. Hola, ¿qué pasa? ¿Todo bien? I'm here at Keeneland. I work for
00:01:01First Racing and First TV. I'm actually in the 1936 room, brand new room. Look how fabulous
00:01:10this is. It goes all the way down there. You can rent this and then go over here. Oh, I
00:01:18think
00:01:18that's Mr. Bob Feld at the bar. Hello. He's drinking water. Of course he is. And we're all
00:01:24in here. So come to Keeneland and check out the 1936 room, aptly named for the first year
00:01:30that Keeneland opened. Been around an awful long time. Very nice. Oh, we will get to the Keeneland
00:01:37sales shortly, but let's start off with the major action on the racetrack last weekend. And the
00:01:43highlight, and we knew this going in, was going to be the Woodbine Mile because this really
00:01:48fascinating showdown between Deterministic, the best miler, turf miler in the U.S., and Notable
00:01:55Speech, the best turf miler, not only in Europe, but last year's Breeders' Cup mile winner. And the
00:02:02result is this. Notable Speech wins by a length and a quarter. But that was misleading to me because,
00:02:09man, he was good. Deterministic, and we thought this would probably happen. As good a horse as
00:02:16Deterministic is, he got to the front in 24-1, 47-4. Meanwhile, Notable Speech was fifth in the early
00:02:25going. That he not only ran down Deterministic, but did so rather easily. It just shows, once again,
00:02:32what a tremendous horse this guy is. There's lots more to talk about the race, and in particular,
00:02:39Charlie Appleby and the magic that he weaves every time he goes to Woodbine. But I'll start with you,
00:02:45Randy. Are you on board with me in labeling this? It's a terrific performance.
00:02:51Oh, yes. Yes and no. The buyer's speed figure comes back 1-0-1, which is not especially strong,
00:03:01but I think it tells us a couple of things. First of all, the race, given the pace situation,
00:03:06was not really run to Notable Speech's liking. I mean, he had zero pace in front of him,
00:03:12and he was kind of bottled up behind horses until, what, about the 3-16s bowl or so when he
00:03:18finally shook free and then unleashed that devastating burst of speed. So, obviously,
00:03:23he's capable of running a much faster number with a better kind of pace setup than he got at Woodbine.
00:03:30And also, part two of this, I don't think Deterministic ran his very best race, and I don't
00:03:37think he's at his best at Woodbine. Here's my theory, and Zoe can shoot this down if she wants,
00:03:44but, you know, Kentucky Downs is obviously the most European-style racetrack we have in North
00:03:50America. Woodbine's turf course would be next on that list. Mile-and-a-half oval, very gentle sweeping
00:03:58turns, which favors Europeans, a very long stretch run, which favors Europeans. Deterministic is a nimble,
00:04:07quick speed horse, speed-type horse who has always been at his best at race track.
00:04:13At turf courses like in Saratoga and elsewhere, where the turns are a little bit tighter,
00:04:17where his speed can be a little bit more of an advantage. And I just don't think his running
00:04:22style is as advantageous at a track, at a course like Woodbine, as it is at a smaller turf course
00:04:30around the country. Having said that, he still ran really well to finish second, but I think he will
00:04:36be better served at a racetrack like Keeneland, for example, in the Breeders' Cup there.
00:04:41All right. I agree with everything that Randy said and more, but come on, guys. Speed is a weapon.
00:04:47Use it. That was his one chance to try and beat notable speech. Now, I'm not saying he's probably
00:04:53going to run second anyway, but he's strangling going 23, 24.36, 47.89. Get a jump on him. Get
00:05:02going. Speed is a weapon. Use it. I firmly believe that you're actually helping superior closers by going
00:05:10slower. You go slow. He can sit closer. Now, American closers don't have the turn of foot
00:05:18that Europeans do, so they need that pace up front to close into. Europeans don't need that pace. They
00:05:25don't get it over there. If you're a really good closer and you can sit closer, it's going to help
00:05:30you every single time. And that is exactly what happened with notable speech. Now, it's probably
00:05:34going to be second anyway. Deterministic ran a great race. But if I was Kendrick and I'm riding
00:05:40that horse and speed is a weapon, I'm going. I'm going 46 and change. Catch me if you can.
00:05:47Oh, an interesting take on that as well. I think you guys are underselling a little bit notable
00:05:54speeches performance, but that's why we get on this podcast to hash out our opinions and whatnot.
00:06:00Okay, so the other story. Oh, by the way, I just want to add one thing. Randy, you had mentioned
00:06:08that perhaps Miguel Clement with deterministic, if he got beat by notable speech, would take a look
00:06:14at the Breeders' Cup turf at a mile and a half. Just to prepare for the podcast, I texted Miguel
00:06:20and he said the Breeders' Cup mile is most likely where they're going. So they're not going,
00:06:28apparently not going to experiment with a mile and a half. Okay, Charlie Appleby. My goodness,
00:06:33what this guy does, I mean, what he does in North America, period, has just been off the charts.
00:06:39But he also won a grade one with some horse in the summer stakes. I'm not even going to try
00:06:44to
00:06:45pronounce the name Al-Uda-Biba, something like that. This is his dream. I'm sorry.
00:06:51You ever, never do. It's a good horse trained by Charlie Appleby. Let's just leave it at that.
00:06:58These numbers are off the charts at Woodbine. In his career, he's 12 for 24. All 12 races
00:07:08are grade one wins. Zoe, is it because, you know, obviously as good as he is,
00:07:18there's something about Woodbine that brings out the best of his horses. Now, let's get back to
00:07:22something that we were talking about earlier. Could it be, like Randy said, that Woodbine,
00:07:28after Kentucky Downs, is most similar to any turf course in England and in Europe that we have in
00:07:37North America? Is that part of the equation? Why is this guy, when he comes into Woodbine,
00:07:42just almost unbeatable? It's a little easier at Woodbine. I mean, I'm not saying any grade one
00:07:49is easier, but he knows what to take there. So he had a lean couple of years, kind of bringing
00:07:55C-strings, expecting them to win, and they didn't. So now he's bringing really good horses,
00:08:00and he's bringing them to Woodbine, and they're all winning. And yes, Randy hit the nail on the head.
00:08:05The European-style turf course is definitely helping him, especially with those big sweeping
00:08:10turns up there. It enables those closers to just be a little bit closer and pounce,
00:08:17stalk, pounce, and go on with it. He has won, Appleby's won 12 Breeders' Cup races out of only
00:08:2432 starters, which is an incredible percentage there. Those are obviously grade ones. But then
00:08:29in addition to that, he's won 21 other grade one races in the United States since he began invading
00:08:38in earnest back in 2021. And of course, of those 21 grade ones, 12 of them, as Bill said,
00:08:44have been at Woodbine. But 12 Breeders' Cup races, 38 other stakes races in America that he's won,
00:08:5237 of those graded. So, I mean, when he brings horses over, obviously it goes without saying
00:08:58they need a little extra, extra, extra attention.
00:09:02Well, he's not perfect because he actually did have a loser. He had the favorite in the
00:09:08E.P. Taylor in Diamond Reign. And that horse was a disappointment, finishing fifth. The winner was
00:09:15Give Me Another, trained by Grand Motion, a horse born on the same country that Zoe Cadman was,
00:09:23by the way, South Africa. How about that? And I think this horse has been a little bit overlooked.
00:09:29First grade one win, I understand. But she's won four straight races. She is Breeders' Cup
00:09:35eligible, which is a little bit unusual for South African bread. I'm not sure how they made that
00:09:40happen. But nonetheless, Zoe, your horse from your country of birth, she's underrated. And might she
00:09:51be one to keep an eye on the Breeders' Cup Philly and Mayor Turf?
00:09:54Most definitely. And Graham is so good. When horses are good, he has the ability to just keep
00:09:59them good. And she's not only staying good, she's getting incrementally better each time. Now,
00:10:05she was privy to a Hall of Fame ride by the Hall of Famer in Johnny V. He stuck to
00:10:11the paint the
00:10:11whole way around, sat in the perfect pocket trip. Now, he could have swung out the head of the lane,
00:10:16but he didn't. I think he knew he needed to save every inch of ground. And I don't believe that
00:10:22she
00:10:22was probably the best, most talented horse in the race. But she got such a good trip. She split
00:10:28horses. He did not miss a beat. Johnny V is just riding in the form of his life right now.
00:10:36For a guy
00:10:36who's 50-something years old, he looks as good on a horse. In fact, he probably looks better. I think
00:10:41he's riding shorter now than he ever did. He looks as good as he's ever been. That was a terrific
00:10:46ride
00:10:47on a really good six-year-old mare. Now, she's six years old. Obviously, you've got the Southern
00:10:53Hemisphere to put in there as well. But terrific ride by him. Great training job by Graham to keep
00:10:59her just steadily going along, winning four on the bounce. Couldn't agree more with everything Zoe
00:11:05said. Give me another head. The absolute, quintessential, perfect trip. Now, she's won four
00:11:14races in a row. So, I mean, she knows what she's doing. And she's got the talent to capitalize on
00:11:19those perfect trips. But from a handicapping perspective, from a gambling perspective,
00:11:23if you're looking at the E.P. Taylor, you've got to come away with the conclusion that next time,
00:11:30if those horses get together all in the same race, you'd bet the runner-up see the fire,
00:11:35who hesitated at the start, who was back in the pack, threw a half in 51.77 and six
00:11:43furlongs and won 16.60 and still was eating up ground through the stretch to lose to give me
00:11:50another by only a neck with give me another having that beautiful rail trip. But still, I mean,
00:11:57give give me another credit. She's got the tenacity to get the job done. 96 buyer speed figure with
00:12:04that perfect trip is not going to cut it when the Europeans come to Keeneland for the Philly and
00:12:09Mayor Turf. So, she'll have to step up her game a little bit. But she is, you know, she's got
00:12:15a lot
00:12:16of determination. So, that counts. Normally, we don't talk about grade three races on this show,
00:12:22but we have to talk about the Iroquois stakes on Saturday at Churchill Downs. It was the first
00:12:27points race for the Kentucky Derby. It also became a little bit of an easier race when the horse,
00:12:35Blessed Flyer with Scratch. Having said that, Bob Baffert, who right now probably has the best
00:12:43two-year-old colt in the country in Hughes, it's got another one you have to take a look at
00:12:48and pay
00:12:48a lot of attention to. And that's Saludin. And the story was really the start of the race. I mean,
00:12:55this horse. So, you're laughing. Did I butcher that name as well?
00:12:58I think it's Salahuddin.
00:13:01Okay. Like I said, this is not my thing pronouncing these weird names. But that Baffert
00:13:07trained horse that was really good. Randy, again, you know, give us the buyer number when we get a
00:13:16chance. I don't know what it was. But, you know, this horse overcame a really bad start. And one,
00:13:21to me, means Baffert right now looks like he's got two very serious two-year-olds aiming for the
00:13:28Breeders' Cup Juvenile. Yeah. The buyer's speed figure comes back in 83. It could have been a
00:13:34little higher than that. But really, it's almost irrelevant given the way the race developed. You
00:13:40talked about the start. I mean, he was six lengths back at one point down the backstretch. And they
00:13:45certainly didn't need to wipe the dirt off of his face after the race because he was even money.
00:13:50Jose Ortiz rode him like he was one to 20. He never even thought about tucking in and saving
00:13:56ground. He kept him in the forepath all the way around the turn. You know, still had enough left
00:14:02to maintain a safe lead over a decent horse. And he is no lie shipping from the East Coast or
00:14:08from
00:14:08the West Coast, rather, for Doug O'Neill. He's, you know, he's probably not Bob's best two-year-old
00:14:15prospect. But, Zoe, he's been getting better with each race. Yeah, he was good. The only troubling
00:14:22part to me is the start because we saw him get left. If you watch the drone shot, which
00:14:28is now my most favorite view of anything, Jose Ortiz is really asking him, like he broke
00:14:33a step slow and he is slapping him and slapping him, slapping him. And this horse did not want
00:14:38to go at all. That to me is just a little bit troubling. But he was really asking him.
00:14:43Most horses, if you get after him that much when they break slowly, they take off, right?
00:14:47And it's a terrible ride because then they're on the lead. This guy wanted no par of any early
00:14:51speed whatsoever. He was like, no, you wait. I don't know if he got a bit of kickback and
00:14:57he didn't like it. And that's why he was so wide. But he was definitely not happy where
00:15:03he was to begin with. So I have a feeling that's probably part of why Jose kept him so
00:15:10wide. He was very good. Now, he's no lie was his game as a pebble. I think Salahuddin was
00:15:15perhaps just toying with him towards the wire because he's no lie was running the best race
00:15:21of his life right there. And Salahuddin was just here. Okay, well, okay, little he's no lie. You
00:15:26just stay there and I'm going to win. Good race. I think we need to mention, we mentioned USS Valor
00:15:33last week. So we need to mention Coach Pope, son of Tappet, trained by Kenny McPeak, who was the
00:15:40TDN Rising Star, comes out of the same race on August the 8th. Goudreau, he's going to run in the
00:15:47champagne for Chad Brown. He won that race. Coach Pope was second. USS Valor was third. There was a
00:15:54horse who ran last in that race by the name of Hemingway, a Constitution cult, who won by eight
00:16:01and a half at Kentucky Downs. That may be one of the livest key races that I think we're going
00:16:07to see all year long, that maiden race on August the 8th. So what did he run? What kind of
00:16:13number
00:16:13did Coach Pope? He got an 86. Zoe, I'm looking at that going forward from a handicapping perspective
00:16:20is more like a 98 to 100. I think he was, I think he was that, he was that impressive.
00:16:25I mean, he was
00:16:26behind horses, behind horses, behind horses, waiting, waiting, waiting, got a seam at the quarter pole
00:16:33and he just, oh, it was before the quarter pole, but he just blew, just blew through the, through the,
00:16:39the opening. Looked like a really, really good horse, a very professional horse, which he'd shown
00:16:45in the past. And he won with just a very minimum of encouragement. So Coach Pope named after the
00:16:52head basketball coach at Kentucky, by the way, Mark Pope, who was at the Kentucky Alabama football
00:16:57game and tweeted a picture of himself watching his namesake run on his phone, standing in the end
00:17:04zone at halftime. So yeah, there's a lot of good stories. Yeah. Good stories behind it. He's very
00:17:09well-bred. He's by Tappet out of a mare that was a very talented stakes winner in Canada named
00:17:16Gamble's Ghost. So Coach Pope ticks off a lot of boxes and man, was he visually impressive.
00:17:23All right. Some good two-year-olds to look forward to as we head towards Breeders' Cup day.
00:17:27We're going to take a break and we're going to hear more about what's going on at Keeneland.
00:17:31And Randy will reveal the fastest, actually this week, the fastest horses of the week. Stay with
00:17:39us. We'll be right back. I do want to remind you that each and every week, the TDN Rice's room
00:17:43is
00:17:44brought to you by Keeneland. Now we're recording this on Tuesday morning. Well, it's about lunchtime
00:17:49right now. So we're just getting ready to kick off a day two of book one at Keeneland September.
00:17:55Yesterday, I've got to tell you, was absolutely insane. We'll talk more about that just a little
00:18:01bit later. But for the first session, 97 yearlings sold for a total of 71 million and change. The
00:18:09average of 739,000 was up 13.3% from the 2025 opening session. And the median was up a
00:18:18whopping 16.3%
00:18:21up to $625,000. There were more than 18 horses that sold for more than a million or more. We'll
00:18:31talk
00:18:31about some more takeaways just a little bit later on. But day one was absolutely amazing. We've got
00:18:37much more to look forward to it. Keeneland. Learn more at www.keeneland.com.
00:18:44We do this so your granddaughter can work on a farm someday.
00:18:48So the stands will still be packed in 50 years. That's why we come to work every day. Obsess over
00:18:57every
00:18:57single detail. Because the story of racing is written one moment at a time. And the future of
00:19:06our industry deserves nothing less. Keeneland. Every moment matters.
00:19:13The fastest horse of the week brought to you by the fast sires at one star farm. This week,
00:19:19our spotlight is on audible. Sire of Splendora, who was once again, brilliant winning the grade
00:19:26two locust grove steaks at Churchill Downs on her way to another Breeders' Cup distaffs.
00:19:33Splendora strolled to a five and a quarter length win in that mile at a 16th race. She's a five
00:19:38year old and she's been sensational this year, winning five of six starts, all in graded stakes.
00:19:45Audible is the sire of 14 stake sources in 2026 with progeny earnings of over 5.5 million dollars.
00:19:55And Audible, of course, stands at Windstar Farm. Now, the fastest horse of the week. This week,
00:20:00we have dual fastest horses, both with buyer speed figures of 101. We've already talked about
00:20:06notable speech in his win in the Woodbine Mile. The other 101 buyer went to Kentucky Bell,
00:20:14the three-year-old daughter of Justify, who followed up her win in the Saratoga Oaks with the win
00:20:20last Wednesday in the dueling ground Oaks at Kentucky Downs. For that, she upped her buyer
00:20:27from 91 at Saratoga to 101 at Kentucky Downs. Kentucky Bell now four for seven. Lifetime.
00:20:35She joins notable speech as the co-fastest horse of the week.
00:20:46Welcome to now the Gaines Way Guest of the Week. And it's always fun to talk to Graham Motion,
00:20:51but no better time to talk to him than now after he's coming off a grade one win in the
00:20:57EP Taylor
00:20:58with Give Me Another. Graham, congratulations on the big win Saturday at Woodbine. Thanks for joining
00:21:03us. And first of all, I want to back up a little bit. And this isn't the only horse you've
00:21:10had a
00:21:10lot of success with out of South Africa. You had a horse by the name of Beach Bomb win some
00:21:14stakes
00:21:14races. And Randy and Zoe always make fun of me because I butcher all sorts of names, but I don't
00:21:20even
00:21:20begin to know how to pronounce Iza Vungu Vungu. Yeah, you're better at this than I. So tell us
00:21:28about your South African connections. How did the South African people find you? How did you find
00:21:34them? Yeah, I mean, I think originally the connection was through Team Valor. I had a mayor for them many
00:21:40years ago from South Africa, which Gaynor Rupert was a part of. And two years ago, they opted to send
00:21:51a shipment over from South Africa to try and, you know, get some of the South African breeding back
00:21:55on the map. The quarantine has been so difficult. Finally, they've actually made the quarantine a
00:22:02little bit easier. Give Me Another was one of the give me another and actually was one of the first
00:22:08ones to come over under the new system whereby they do a month in South Africa and they do two
00:22:14months in Europe where they're able to train before they come to me, which makes life a lot easier.
00:22:20The original group that came over did a month in South Africa and then two months in quarantine in
00:22:25Newburgh where they weren't able to leave the stalls. So that was very difficult for the first
00:22:31group, which was Beach Balm and Izzy Bunga Bunga, as you said. And One Stripe obviously had a lot of
00:22:37success. The recently retired One Stripe in the mile division. So going back a pretty long way,
00:22:44I remember guys like Ron McAnally talking about the South American horses from Argentina and Brazil
00:22:51and how they seemed, they were trained differently and seemed to be a bit more rugged maybe than the
00:22:57American horses. What about the ones from South Africa in that regard? Yeah, I mean, I think that's
00:23:02possible. I just have been so impressed with how competitive they've been right across the board.
00:23:07I mean, even the ones that you may not have picked up on that have been very competitive in their
00:23:11own
00:23:11right. You know, the ones that we've mentioned are the ones that have stood out obviously and came to
00:23:17me with expectations. So I've just been very impressed with how competitive they've been. I
00:23:23mean, what Give Me Another has accomplished on two continents is pretty extraordinary, I think. And
00:23:29probably, I can't imagine it's been done many times before, quite honestly.
00:23:34And Graham, not that she got off to, I wouldn't call it a bad start, but she did lose her
00:23:39first four
00:23:39starts in the U.S. and now has won four straight, including a grade one. Was there anything in
00:23:45particular that helped her turn around? Why is she perhaps a better horse this year than she was
00:23:52last year? I think with all of them, it took a little while, maybe for me to figure them out
00:24:00or
00:24:00for them to figure out racing. You know, one strike was a perfect example. I ran him up in Canada
00:24:06last
00:24:06year, which was a tough spot, but it was sort of a trying to get him, get to know him
00:24:11race. And then
00:24:12we ran him in the Breeders' Cup, which was a disaster. After that, we really got on track and
00:24:17he proved that he's a grade one horse in America. This mare, you know, I think it took a couple
00:24:22of
00:24:22races. Her race at Churchill was very good. She was beaten by, I think, the filly that went on to
00:24:29be
00:24:29the horse of the year, the filly of the year, Cherise. So we then were planning to get her to
00:24:37the
00:24:38Breeders' Cup last year and she came up with a little issue, which might have been a blessing
00:24:41in disguise because we gave her some time. We also found over the winter that she had two teeth that
00:24:47had significant problems and both had to be removed, which I had never done before in my entire career,
00:24:53had to actually send horses in for surgery to have teeth removed. And they were definitely bothering
00:24:58her. And I'd like to think that that, with the combination of the time, has really turned her around.
00:25:05Typically, and for good reason, when we talk about American-based turf horses headed to the
00:25:12Breeders' Cup, you know, we say, okay, they may be great in America, but, you know, now they're going
00:25:16to have to hook up with the Europeans at the Breeders' Cup and we know how that ends up typically.
00:25:21But
00:25:21with Gimme Another in the E.P. Taylor, the second, third, fourth, and fifth place finishers in that race
00:25:28all came over from Europe. So she's already had success against the Europeans. How encouraging
00:25:33is that as you look ahead to Keeneland? Yeah, very. I mean, look, I was a little
00:25:38disappointed when I saw the horses that were coming over for the E.P. Taylor, to be honest.
00:25:44I thought it was a really good test for her. And I'm actually not sure that she wasn't better on
00:25:50Saturday. You know, Johnny said she was more aggressive. At Colonial, he really kind of had to
00:25:57ask her to get in gear to finish up in that race. And so often, second race off a layoff
00:26:03like she was
00:26:04having when she ran in the Beverly D. You know, so often that's sort of a bounce race. It's often
00:26:09a
00:26:09below-par race. So I think you could make a case for the fact that she was maybe better on
00:26:14Saturday.
00:26:15The same card in the summer and Natalma, in the two-year-old grade one races. You had third-place
00:26:21finishers in both of those with induction and emboutillage. I hope I pronounced that correctly.
00:26:27Are they breeder's cup possibilities as well? I think so. Look, emboutillage is a filly that I've
00:26:35thought was probably the best tier that I have in my barn. She was so impressive leading up to her
00:26:40first start. Won very nicely. I was a little worried stretching her out to a mile because she's quite
00:26:46aggressive. The Kingmans tend to be sort of seven-eighths to a mile horses. But I thought
00:26:51she handled the race Saturday really well. I mean, obviously, you want to win, but to be placed in
00:26:57that grade one with the way she did it and the way she galloped out, I was pretty happy with
00:27:01her.
00:27:02And I'd like to think we can go on to the Breeders' Cup. And I thought the Colt ran great.
00:27:08I mean,
00:27:09Junior said he kind of had to get him going a little bit. He was so settled. I think the
00:27:14two
00:27:15turns will really help him. And, you know, fantastic for Pino to have a stallion, first-year
00:27:20stallion scalding, having a, you know, a possible, A, a competitor in the grade one, and B, possibly
00:27:27a starter in the Breeders' Cup.
00:27:29And, Graham, going into the E.P. Taylor, the story all day long, no surprise to anybody,
00:27:37Charlie Appleby and, you know, the fabulous run by notable speech. He won the race for the
00:27:43two-year-old Colts that Randy was just talking about. Now, you're going up against him in the
00:27:48E.P. Taylor. He's got the heavy favorite. At this point, he's saying, my goodness, can anybody beat
00:27:53this guy? Is it? You don't seem like the type of person that gets intimidated by things, but
00:27:59did it look to be a little bit of a daunting task considering the success he has had not only
00:28:05on the
00:28:05day, but overall it would be.
00:28:08Yeah, definitely. I certainly do get intimidated. But, yes, I mean, I was certainly concerned,
00:28:15but I must say I have tremendous confidence in this mare. She's very special. She could not have
00:28:21come up to this race better. I just felt like, you know, things were kind of lined up, and I
00:28:25just
00:28:26thought it was a great opportunity for her to prove that she belongs. And, you know, I didn't know for
00:28:30sure she was going to do that, but she certainly did. So, before the South African horses in America
00:28:39became associated with gray emotion, whenever we heard about horses from South Africa, it just
00:28:46conjured up the name Michael Dukak, the legendary South African trainer that still is saddling winners
00:28:51in South Africa. He was the previous trainer of Gimme Another before she came to the United States.
00:28:56How much interaction do you have with a guy like Dukak with these South African horses when they prepare
00:29:02to be sent to you?
00:29:04Quite a bit. He's been extremely supportive of what we're trying to do. I know it's corny, but it really
00:29:13is a bit of a team effort, you know, between the Hollywood group who had Izivumgabumgu and one stripe
00:29:18and that one with Jess and Steve. You know, he's always had confidence. He's always given me confidence
00:29:25that this mayor would stretch out. We talked about her plenty, and he always felt that a mile and a
00:29:31quarter, the further distances were going to help her. He knows the family so well. So, yeah, I mean,
00:29:37we text a lot. He's very supportive. Always the first to congratulate me, which has really been a big
00:29:43help.
00:29:44A great, a grand before you came on, Mr. Moss was very complimentary. Randy, I hope I'm not stealing
00:29:52your question, but I'll go right ahead. Anyways, very complimentary about John Velasquez and the ride
00:29:58he gave your mayor in the EP Taylor. And of course, you guys have a long history together. You won
00:30:03the
00:30:03Kentucky Derby with Animal Kingdom. How good was the ride? How good is Johnny right now? And by all
00:30:11appearances, he hasn't aged a bit in so far as, as his riding ability.
00:30:16I think, I really believe Johnny is riding better now than ever. I think he has no,
00:30:22he has no pressure. I think he's riding because he wants to ride. I think he's riding because he
00:30:27enjoys to ride. He never struggles with his weight. That's never been an issue. Sometimes in the summer,
00:30:33he actually has to eat to keep up his weight because he loses weight. I think Johnny's a happier,
00:30:42more content rider, riding with no pressure. I think he's riding better than ever. I really do.
00:30:47And not that he hasn't ridden well before, but I think you know what I mean.
00:30:51So give me another one at Del Mar. And that seems to be a pretty familiar theme with you, Graham.
00:30:59A lot of the Eastern base trainers just focus on Saratoga and the East Coast racetracks in the
00:31:04summer. You've won 15 stakes races, including four grade ones and five grade twos at Del Mar,
00:31:11shipping from East to West. What, what, what's gone into that, to that element of your, of your
00:31:17racing stable?
00:31:20Look, I think it's something that we've always tended to focus on. I must say, I was a little
00:31:24anxious before we ran, um, the last Philly out there, Bronte, uh, when I was told that we were,
00:31:31we were undefeated for like the last four years in Del Mar summer meet. Um, but look, I think it's
00:31:38no secret. I think Saratoga has become more difficult. Certainly from my point of view,
00:31:42it has the races I compete in the graded stakes on the grass. Um, Chad is so strong in Saratoga.
00:31:49You know, often when we go in these graded stakes in Saratoga, Chad might have two or even three in
00:31:55there. And I think that makes it very competitive. And I think to be able to escape from that,
00:31:59I think California has been a little easier the last few years. It's no secret that they,
00:32:04they have a horse shortage out there. Um, so we've tried to take advantage of that.
00:32:09And I think just, we have a, we have a really good system. You know, Alice Clapham has done all
00:32:12the
00:32:13traveling for me. I have so much confidence in her. She's worked for me for a very long time and
00:32:17to be
00:32:17able to pack her up, you know, four or five days out, send her off on a FedEx to California
00:32:23and know
00:32:24that things are going to be done so well. And also they've been really helpful to us, um, in,
00:32:29in making this happen. So, uh, it's just been very easy to do. It's not much different for us to
00:32:35ship
00:32:35to Del Mar as it is to send a horse up to Woodbine, quite honestly. Now I would often be
00:32:40found on a
00:32:41boogie board out there on Del Mar beach. Do you, do you, do you ever get any beach time when
00:32:45you get to
00:32:45Del Mar? I really don't. I haven't made it out there this summer. I would love to. I,
00:32:52I love having the breeders cup in California. I think that's a whole nother topic, but we won't
00:32:56get onto that. But I think it's, uh, you know, often we'll stay after them. If we're, if we're
00:33:01in the breeders cup at Del Mar, we're often stay up after there and keep a string for the meat.
00:33:06Um, and I, I love going out there, but honestly, no, I haven't made it on a boogie board yet.
00:33:09It's cold. The water, Randy.
00:33:12It's pretty, it can be pretty cold.
00:33:14Yes, it is. So, uh, Graham, a couple of other follow-up questions I have. First of all,
00:33:19fill us in on test score. The one, the Del Mar handicap, uh, breeders cup bound, and it's kind
00:33:23of a, a tweener a little bit. If he is going to the breeders cup, would it be the mile
00:33:28or the turf?
00:33:29No, definitely the turf after what he did the other day. I mean, that sort of, I was struggling
00:33:34to figure out what was his best trip. I honestly believe you could make a case for, he might even
00:33:39be
00:33:39better now going a mile and a half. I was always worried about that before, but I think the way
00:33:43he handled the mile and three eighths and I didn't necessarily go to California because it was a
00:33:48win and you're in, that was a bonus. I really wanted to test him at a high level, um, going
00:33:54a
00:33:55distance of ground. And I think he answered the questions for me that day. And he's, listen,
00:33:59this has been a really cool horse. I know he's had a couple of, uh, disappointing races this year,
00:34:03which one of which I really struggled to explain the race at Churchill. Um, he's a horse that very
00:34:10much is sort of pace dependent. Um, but he is a hard knocking blue collar horse. He is just so
00:34:15cool.
00:34:16And I feel very fortunate to have him. So, uh, you are at the, we're recording this on, um,
00:34:23Wednesday. We recorded our previous segment on Tuesday. Um, so let's ask you at Keeneland. So
00:34:27let's ask you a couple of Keeneland sales questions. First of all, I have two parts questions. So, uh,
00:34:32the first part is, you know, just give us your take on what's going on and, and, and why, uh,
00:34:39when, uh, some other aspects, in fact, many other aspects of the, of the, uh, industry aren't doing
00:34:44very well. The sales industry has, has, has just shot through the roof. You're reading our take on
00:34:51that. Yeah. I mean, look, I don't have a lot of involvement at this high end of the sales. Um,
00:34:57I'm certainly fortunate that some of the partnerships will send me horses. I'm not that involved in the
00:35:02process. Um, I think the, the prices are extraordinary. I mean, it is really hard to
00:35:09comprehend the scale of our business when people are still prepared to spend so much money on
00:35:15yearlings where there's so much sort of negativity about our sport. But I think, look, obviously it
00:35:21has a lot to do with the tax breaks. Um, but I think ultimately this is a good thing. The
00:35:25fact that
00:35:26there's so much enthusiasm, it's a positive, I do worry that there's so much in our, in
00:35:32our industry geared towards the sales. I think, you know, ultimately what we need to do is
00:35:38be geared towards the racing. I worry about the fact that, uh, we get it. We're preparing
00:35:43these horses for sales rather than racing, if you like, but, you know, ultimately this
00:35:47is positive. The fact that people are prepared to jump in the game, spend extraordinary amounts
00:35:51of money. There's a lot of positive things in our business right now. You know, Belmont opening
00:35:56this week. I think the excitement of seeing this facility, which is remarkable to be, to
00:36:02be opening up on Friday. I think, I think it's really exciting. Yeah. And Graham, as you mentioned,
00:36:06I mean, you have good clients, but you don't have any clients that are going to be slugging
00:36:10it out for the $2 million gun runner. Um, is that a little bit frustrating that, uh, you
00:36:15know, at the end of the day, um, you know, the super trainers, uh, the same guy seemed
00:36:20to wind up with all these horses and, uh, wouldn't you love to have those $2 million
00:36:24gun runners? Yeah, I did make the comment to my wife last night, but it does amuse me
00:36:29that we did actually win the Kentucky Derby and yet we're still not sort of somebody that
00:36:33somebody wants to send a dirt horse to, but look, I love the grass racing. It's better
00:36:38to be known for something than nothing. I, I, I love having these grass raced horses and
00:36:43I feel extremely fortunate to have the horses and the clients that I do. Look, I train for
00:36:47a lot of breeders. Um, and I, I'm, I'm very fortunate in that respect.
00:36:52Well, Graham, I'll tell you what, if I hit power ball, uh, I'm going to go to the sales
00:36:56and buy a $2 million gun runner and I'm going to give them or an into mischief and I'm going
00:37:00to give them to you. Uh, that that's my promise to you. Uh, thanks so much for joining us as
00:37:05the Gainesway guest of the week. Congratulations on a terrific performance by give me another
00:37:09and we'll see her in the breeders cup.
00:37:11I look forward to that bill. Thank you.
00:37:13Thank you so much, Graham. Our guest of the week brought to you by Gainesway home to stallion
00:37:18McKenzie, the leading third crop sire currently by grade one winners and also by total graded
00:37:24stakes winners on dirt. Those grade one winners are all from McKenzie's first crop, which puts
00:37:30him in good company with sires like gun runner, tap it, uncle Mo and Bernardini for McKenzie,
00:37:36a serious grade one dirt sire in the making. This is just the beginning. Gainesway power,
00:37:42passion, performance.
00:37:46McKenzie in a dominant performance.
00:37:55Tim has won the forego.
00:37:58Baeza gets his moment in the sun in the Pennsylvania Derby.
00:38:02Chancer, McPatrick wins the champagne impressively.
00:38:06Spectacular display from Scottish Lassie who's in front by 15 lengths.
00:38:15The Pennsylvania breeding program is the best program in the country. The stallion awards,
00:38:21the owner bonuses, also the restrictive races and the stakes races for Pennsylvania breeds.
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00:38:34over $100,000. We have the best program in the country. Take advantage of the fantastic program that we have.
00:38:43Learn more at PABread.com.
00:38:46TD and Riders Room, also brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association, the PHBA.
00:38:52Pennsylvania bred Heavy Pore, a homebred for Richard Bossard, shipped to Woodbine from Presque Isle Downs and promptly took them
00:39:00gate to wire in the grade three $175,000 vigil stakes.
00:39:04That was Heavy Pore's fourth victory in a row.
00:39:08And earlier that day at Delaware Park, another Pennsylvania bred shipper struck in the first state dash.
00:39:15For two-year-olds, that was strong suspicion bred by Dr. and Mrs. William Riddle, proving that Pennsylvania breads can
00:39:24win anywhere.
00:39:25To learn more about the PABread program, you can contact Brian Sanfratello at 610-444-1050 or log on to
00:39:34PABread.com.
00:39:36Well, when she was opening the show and doing the Keeneland Reads, Zoe Cadman gave us all the pertinent statistics
00:39:43from Keeneland day one.
00:39:45Now, we are recording this on Tuesday before day two, the results are in, but based on what happened on
00:39:54day one, obviously there's going to be more fireworks at the sale today.
00:39:59Zoe, you already gave us the statistics, and again, you're our person.
00:40:04You're actually on the grounds, and you're a lot better, more knowledgeable about this than both Randy and I, which
00:40:09we readily admit.
00:40:10So we're going to ask you to do a little bit of the heavy lifting here.
00:40:13But one thing that I did notice was that Gunrunner, as a sire, was the story of the day.
00:40:23Three of the four top horses, including the sales topper, were all by Gunrunner.
00:40:29And that was, to me, to a guy, again, who doesn't pay a ton of attention to this, was a
00:40:36little bit of a surprise because, you know, there's so many good sires out there, including in Domitius, by the
00:40:41way, the sale topper went for $2.8 million.
00:40:43So, you know, go with this and run with it.
00:40:47But certainly Gunrunner had to be one of the stories of day one.
00:40:52You want to buy an athlete?
00:40:53You need to buy a Gunrunner.
00:40:54I mean, there's plenty at the top, but they were just standing out in book one.
00:40:59The horse made $2.8 million by Gunrunner, sold to RTM Racing.
00:41:05That is Mahoud Mooney.
00:41:08Everyone's trying to win the Kentucky Derby, so they're forming all these massive partnerships.
00:41:13We'll hear about West Point's partnership with St. Elias and et al and everybody else.
00:41:18Everyone wants to win the Derby.
00:41:20So you're going to see a lot of these high-priced colts sell for an awful lot of money.
00:41:24I think there were $7 million-plus Gunrunners that sold yesterday, $18 million horses in all.
00:41:32The average was up 16%, the median $625,000.
00:41:38Now, the buyback rate was 30%.
00:41:40Last year, at this time, it was 20%.
00:41:43And we'll see that drop because there will be some post-sale horses.
00:41:48But because it's so hard to buy a horse right now, a lot of these breeders that breed to race
00:41:53and breed to sell are like,
00:41:55I love that horse.
00:41:56I can't buy a horse like that to replace it, so I'm going to keep it.
00:42:00And I think we're going to see a little bit more of that, people just hanging on to horses
00:42:03or perhaps just putting ridiculous reserves on them.
00:42:08It carries on.
00:42:09This is probably the highest-grossing day one since 2006,
00:42:15which is actually a little bit scary when you think about what happened in 2007.
00:42:20Let's hope that doesn't happen.
00:42:22But there's a lot more to come, and it's day one.
00:42:24We have 11 more days that are just about to get underway today.
00:42:28It's fun.
00:42:29It's been packed out here.
00:42:30They're walking around with cocktails.
00:42:32They're handing you biscuits and all kinds of things down there.
00:42:35They've got music playing.
00:42:36It really is the September place to be.
00:42:39It's fabulous.
00:42:40And we've probably got, let me think, 4,000 more horses to look at.
00:42:46You guys need to come.
00:42:49The thought that everyone's looking for a Kentucky Derby horse is just accentuated, I think,
00:42:54by the fact that Gunrunner is first and foremost a dirt stallion.
00:43:02You have a much better chance with an Into Mischief or a Not This Time of getting a stakes winner
00:43:08on grass than you do with Gunrunner.
00:43:11But Gunrunner is just such a superior dirt stallion that you saw the results in day one.
00:43:17It's pretty wild.
00:43:20It's insane.
00:43:21And it's fabulous.
00:43:22It's good for everyone, right?
00:43:24It's good for the game.
00:43:25All right.
00:43:26Now, we're going to move on to something that I've been ranting about for 25 years or so.
00:43:34It just drives me crazy that of this mentality that is seeped in in horse racing, that the horses, the
00:43:43good horses, should run five times a year and have six to seven weeks or whatever between starts.
00:43:49So I hope everybody's been paying attention to what's been going on, not just this year, but over the years
00:43:55at Kentucky Downs.
00:43:56Now, Kentucky Downs, as I said, I wrote in the TDN, trainers will do things there that they wouldn't normally
00:44:03do because it's a short meet, compact meet, and the purses are so outrageous that trainers are willing to run
00:44:12their horses back on short rest.
00:44:14You don't really see much of that anyplace else.
00:44:16So on Wednesday at Kentucky Downs, how's this for an exacto in the Kentucky Downs Juvenile Mile?
00:44:22How's Al today and Jass, both coming back in 11 days, run 1-2?
00:44:28Of course, at the same meet, we talked about it earlier, Caroline Street beat, won the Nashville Derby on six
00:44:35weeks rest.
00:44:36This follows.
00:44:37Here's some other ones for you.
00:44:38How about 2024?
00:44:39Goliad wins the millions, six days rest for Hall of Famer Dick Mandela.
00:44:46And actually, this was the third straight year that this particular race, the Kentucky Downs Juvenile Mile, was won by
00:44:54horses coming back in 11 days or less.
00:44:58So it puts a smile on my face.
00:45:01It gives me evidence that what has happened is absolutely insane.
00:45:05I don't get it.
00:45:06I don't train horses, but I just don't get it.
00:45:09Now, let me carry on before I get to you, because I thought this was really cool.
00:45:13There was a posting underneath my story, my week in review story in the TDN.
00:45:20And Randy, I'm sure you know this fellow quite well, John and Anthony, because you both have.
00:45:25Very well.
00:45:26Yes.
00:45:26Very well.
00:45:26You both are Arkansas guys.
00:45:29And here's what he posted on the comment section.
00:45:33Can horses win off a short rest?
00:45:35Of course they can.
00:45:37And it was once common.
00:45:39In my 50 plus years of racing, I've seen trainers move to the three to six week rotation to the
00:45:46detriment of the sport.
00:45:47In the 70s to the 90s, a race every 10 to 14 days was routine.
00:45:53Woody won the Met on Monday and the Belmont Stakes on Saturday with Conquistore Cielo.
00:45:59Joe Canty raced Temperance Hill three times in 13 days and won the Belmont on the third.
00:46:06Champion horses don't run any faster or safe down any better or longer nowadays.
00:46:11They just run less.
00:46:13Less fun for the owners and fans.
00:46:15Trainers today are proud to declare, I only ran him three times in a year and I just won the
00:46:21X.
00:46:21Go, John, Ed, Randy.
00:46:24I love that comment.
00:46:29By the way, you mentioned the name Howzal today.
00:46:34Charlie Appleby better bring a bear to the Breeders' Cup because Howzal today looks like, to me, he's going to
00:46:41win the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf.
00:46:43He looked that good at Kentucky Downs.
00:46:45But look, I think Zoe can piggyback on this.
00:46:50It is easier to bring horses back on short rest running on grass than running on dirt because grass is
00:46:58a much less demanding surface than having to slog through sand.
00:47:03And dirt takes a lot more out of a horse than running on grass does.
00:47:07That's one thing.
00:47:08And also in turf races, they tend to be longer races, which are a little bit less stressful on horses
00:47:15because the pace is a little bit less brutal than a dirt sprint, let's say.
00:47:21But, you know, about the short rest thing, there is no one, you would think, theoretically, there's no one who
00:47:31would be better off running more frequently with the purse money available today, let's say, in Kentucky than owners and
00:47:41trainers.
00:47:42No one has more incentive to run horses more frequently with the purses that we're seeing today.
00:47:48But yet they still don't.
00:47:50And I think there's a reason for that.
00:47:53I think trainers have seen firsthand.
00:47:55They have seen that their horses do not stand up as well when they run that frequently.
00:48:02I think that's the reason why we're seeing this.
00:48:06I think it's just, you know, empirical evidence that the trainers are seeing with their own eyes.
00:48:12And it's not, by the way, one more thing, and I'll hand it off to Zoe.
00:48:18It's not, and trainers will tell you this, it's not that horses can't win running back in a week or
00:48:25six days or seven days, right?
00:48:27Some can't, but a lot of the really good horses, the more robust horses, can certainly do that.
00:48:31The key is what happens after that.
00:48:35That's what trainers will tell you.
00:48:36That's not the concern running back in seven days.
00:48:39It's what you're going to have to do coming out of that seven-day rest and how much time you're
00:48:45going to have to give the horse then to recover from running back so quickly.
00:48:49At Kentucky Downs, the purses are so huge, they're willing to take that gamble and roll the dice like that
00:48:55and give the horse all the time he needs on the back end, he or she, just because the purses
00:49:00are so massive.
00:49:03What he said, basically.
00:49:05And Kentucky Downs, for sure, because it's such a short meet.
00:49:08Your horse runs well opening weekend.
00:49:10What have you got to lose?
00:49:12Run back.
00:49:13And turf is so much easier on horses.
00:49:16And especially shipping down into Kentucky Downs, yeah, you've got to beat the heat because it's usually pretty warm down
00:49:21there.
00:49:22But it's a field atmosphere.
00:49:25It's not nearly so stressful as horses walking down the racetrack to go into the paddock to be saddled in
00:49:33a racetrack setting.
00:49:34This is a new setting, and it's just kind of, ooh.
00:49:37I don't think most horses have the wherewithal to get so nervous and so pent up down there because it's
00:49:43a county fair kind of atmosphere, what goes on.
00:49:47It's pretty quiet down there.
00:49:48It's just a great place to run your horse back quickly.
00:49:51I've ridden several horses that ran back within 10 days, two weeks.
00:49:55And I think they all won.
00:49:57It's kind of horse for course angle down there.
00:49:59They love it.
00:50:00Run them back as soon as you can or at least just hit the board.
00:50:04But tough is the answer.
00:50:06Yeah.
00:50:06Well, just think of how much more money owners and trainers could make if their horses average running 22 times
00:50:11a year instead of seven or eight times a year.
00:50:14And it would be incredible how much money they could make.
00:50:17There's a reason why they don't do that.
00:50:22And the reason why is they've drank the Kool-Aid.
00:50:24It's a bunch of hogwash and absolutely no reason why horses can't run 15 to 16 times a year.
00:50:30There you go.
00:50:31So that's what the soapbox I have been on.
00:50:35And I will continue to man that soapbox until my dying day unless this nonsense stops.
00:50:42Okay.
00:50:43On Friday, I will be stuck in traffic on the Belt Parkway, which is my least favorite thing in life.
00:50:49But I've got to do it because it's opening day at Belmont, the new Belmont Park.
00:50:54And I can't wait.
00:50:56And I'll see if you guys want to add something to the equation because we all know what's happening.
00:51:01But, you know, it's going to be a special day for New York racing.
00:51:05And I've toured the facility in June.
00:51:08It was a little hard to get a feel for it because, you know, there was so much yet to
00:51:12be built and there was scaffolding everywhere and you had to trip over wires and all that.
00:51:17But just getting my initial impressions of this place is going to be great.
00:51:24The courses, the new dirt course, the new turf courses, which they invested a ton of money in, even way
00:51:30back in June, looked fantastic.
00:51:33My only concern is how are they going to make this a facility that both works for the Belmont Stakes
00:51:42and the Breeders' Cup, which they're now going to be part of the rotation, and also work in February when,
00:51:51you know, frankly, there might be 1,200 people or so kicking around the grandstand.
00:51:56But we'll know more as things progress.
00:51:58Only the first two floors will be open.
00:52:01They say that the full facility should be open by Wood Memorial Day.
00:52:06But, Randy, I'm really looking forward to it.
00:52:08I'm going to report on it in the TDN.
00:52:10And I love the old Belmont Park, but it was time to move on and get a new facility.
00:52:17And my initial impressions are this place is going to be really great.
00:52:21Yeah.
00:52:21Well, let me get my sarcastic comment out of the way first.
00:52:25Since the only time they have huge crowds at the Belmont Stakes is when there's a Triple Crown at stake
00:52:29and they're blowing up the Triple Crown.
00:52:30Yeah, and I guess they don't have to worry about that.
00:52:33Secondly, look, Naira put up the money, and it wasn't cheap, to completely renovate a grandstand and do it in
00:52:45a first-class way.
00:52:46They deserve to have a tremendous amount of success with the new Belmont Park, and I hope they do.
00:52:52I hope the fans respond to it.
00:52:54I hope it completely rejuvenates racing at Belmont Park on a year-round basis and the sport in New York
00:53:01because they deserve success rolling the dice and doing what they did.
00:53:07I echo those sentiments completely.
00:53:09I actually can't wait to see it.
00:53:11I've seen the outside of it, and it's beautiful.
00:53:15It's absolutely beautiful.
00:53:16And, you know, I'm sitting here at Keeneland.
00:53:18It's beautiful.
00:53:19I mean, this is what this sport needs, these brand-new, huge facilities, which, like Randy said, will be full
00:53:26during Breeders' Cup.
00:53:28Although Keeneland does good trade pretty much on their boutique meets because it's boutique.
00:53:32People like to come to boutique meets.
00:53:34But I am looking forward to it for sure.
00:53:37And before we go to break, let me add a snarky comment as well, Randy.
00:53:40There is no more Triple Crown.
00:53:42Let's move on, guys.
00:53:43Okay.
00:53:44What we're going to do is take a break, and we're going to hear from what's going on with West
00:53:48Point.
00:53:49And one of the highlights of the show is the first TV work of the week.
00:53:53We come back, we'll take a look at the major races coming up, including the Jockey Club Gold Cup, which
00:53:59will be run on Friday and broadcast live on Fox on a Friday afternoon.
00:54:04That's pretty cool.
00:54:05And will be the marquee race on opening day at the new Belmont Park.
00:54:10Stay with us.
00:54:11The TDN Writers' Room Work of the Week is brought to you by First TV.
00:54:15Now, the 2025 Breeders' Cup Juvenile Phillies winner, Super Corridora, continues to work towards her return in the Grade II
00:54:23$200,000 Zenyatta Stakes at Santa Anita on September the 27th.
00:54:29Here she is working a bullet.
00:54:31Five furlongs in 58 and 4 could not be going any easier this just this past Friday at Santa Anita
00:54:38for trainer John Sadler,
00:54:40who is pointing the champion Juvenile Philly towards the Milan 16th contest after freshening her following her spring campaign.
00:54:48The race deserves a key prep and win and you're in qualifier for the Breeders' Cup Distaff at Keeneland on
00:54:54October 31st.
00:54:56We'll be right back after this message from First TV.
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00:56:05Of course, as we know, the Keeneland September yearling sale is underway.
00:56:09Everybody's there except me and Bill.
00:56:11And West Point Thoroughbreds has joined forces with Vinnie Viola's St. Elias Stable, Woodford Racing, and Belladonna Racing to assemble
00:56:20a group of promising young horses.
00:56:22Those yearlings will be entrusted to Kentucky Derby winning trainer Cherie DeVoe.
00:56:28Meanwhile, West Point, certainly familiar with the kind of talent that can emerge from Keeneland September.
00:56:33Reigning champion two-year-old Philly Super Corridora, for example.
00:56:37Purchased at that sale in 2024.
00:56:39Is now on the comeback trail for West Point and trainer John Sadler.
00:56:43And preparing for her first start since March.
00:56:46As we heard in the first TV work of the week, the daughter of Gunrunner targeting the Zenyatta Stakes at
00:56:52Santa Anita, September 27th.
00:56:54Where a Breeders' Cup win and you're in berth for the Distaff will be on the line.
00:57:05Well, the Jockey Club Gold Cup obviously lost some of its juice when Bill Mott announced.
00:57:11And no surprise that he's just not going to make it with sovereignty.
00:57:13And we were all looking forward to a showdown between sovereignty and, of course, Forever Young.
00:57:20And then there was a possibility nitrogen might go in there.
00:57:24And that's not going to happen either.
00:57:25She's going in the Beldame.
00:57:26So, Randy, the star of the show is, of course, Forever Young.
00:57:33And I don't see him getting beat.
00:57:36He's awful good.
00:57:37We know that.
00:57:38I'm stating the obvious.
00:57:40And this should be, to me, looks like a, should be a victory on his way to the Breeders' Cup
00:57:47Classic.
00:57:48What do you think?
00:57:48I mean, he's obviously the worst to beat.
00:57:50He's going to be odds on.
00:57:52He's three to five in the program.
00:57:54But, look, he hasn't run since March.
00:57:56The previous two years, when they shipped into the Breeders' Cup, they gave him a prep race in Japan.
00:58:02He won both of those prep races against subpar competition and wasn't unbelievably impressive in winning either of those races.
00:58:13But they were prep races.
00:58:14And they used those races to get the horse right up to form for the Breeders' Cup.
00:58:20Is that what they're doing here?
00:58:22If they're intending to use the Jockey Club Gold Cup, again, as a richer prep race to the Breeders' Cup,
00:58:30then we might not see the very best Forever Young on Saturday.
00:58:35And with that possibility in mind, since he's going to be three to five, I mean, why not take a
00:58:41shot with Baeza?
00:58:42No, he's not the most reliable horse in the world.
00:58:46Even if he breaks, he's not necessarily reliable.
00:58:49But if he runs back to his Stephen Foster from two races back when he didn't break, he wasn't quite
00:58:57as good, obviously, in the Whitney.
00:58:58But if he runs back to his Stephen Foster, I think he'll probably beat a comebacking Forever Young.
00:59:04And by the way, Phileas Fogg is no slouch either if he can get the early lead, but there is
00:59:11plenty of competing speed in there with a chunk of gold to his inside.
00:59:16So I kind of question whether Phileas Fogg will get the same sort of trip that he got last time
00:59:22out.
00:59:22Randy, Randy.
00:59:23Yeah.
00:59:24Chunk of gold is going to be scratched and go to Churchill Downs.
00:59:28Oh.
00:59:28Along with banishing.
00:59:31So it looks like Phileas Fogg will be out there on his own.
00:59:35And if he gets a loose lead, they've been pointing towards this race.
00:59:39They gave him the time between his last start.
00:59:41There you go.
00:59:41He missed an intended start.
00:59:44He's a big strapping horse and trains very well.
00:59:46So he could well get loose.
00:59:48But let's go back to Forever Young because he looks about as good as I've ever seen him.
00:59:55And look, they put the meta glasses.
00:59:57Can you see that?
00:59:59On the rider this morning?
01:00:01And you can ride along with Forever Young.
01:00:04How cool is that?
01:00:06It's cool.
01:00:07It's really cool, isn't it?
01:00:09It's having a good old gallop around there as it is, flicking backwards and forwards.
01:00:12I love that.
01:00:14He's by far the horse to beat.
01:00:16But watch out for Phileas Fogg with the scratches of those two.
01:00:19Yeah.
01:00:20With that bit of added information, those were the only two horses with competing speed at all.
01:00:25Correct.
01:00:26So, heck, a comeback in Forever Young.
01:00:29You know how much I love Forever Young.
01:00:30You know, he and Dermas Sotagake.
01:00:36But he doesn't have to run his best race.
01:00:38So why not?
01:00:39Get a Phileas Fogg, Baeza, Xacta, and put Forever Young in the third spot in the try and try to
01:00:46kill the world.
01:00:47I mean, you're looking for value, and that's definitely the value play, I think.
01:00:51Randy, you want to have a bet with me?
01:00:53What do you want?
01:00:54What do you want?
01:00:55How well does Baeza come out of the gate?
01:00:57Does he leave the gate or not?
01:01:01Blinkers off.
01:01:02They're trying whatever they can try.
01:01:05You know, Richie Migliore had a good idea on Fox when he was talking about Baeza and his troubles.
01:01:11Daniel O'Kara?
01:01:13No, but what do you think about this?
01:01:15Richie believes that it's time to try something different, obviously.
01:01:19Take the handler out of the gate.
01:01:21Let him in there.
01:01:23Leave him in there on his own.
01:01:24No distractions.
01:01:26Let Joel Rosario deal with whatever he's got to deal with in the starting gate without an assistant starter hold
01:01:32of his head.
01:01:33And try that and see what happens.
01:01:37I think the blinkers are going to help.
01:01:39Off.
01:01:39Blinkers off are going to help.
01:01:41Yeah.
01:01:42Okay.
01:01:42I really do.
01:01:43Also interesting to note that Bill Mott is going to his main man, Junior Alvarado, after Flavion Pratt rode the
01:01:51horse in previous starts.
01:01:52Flavion Pratt will be at Belmont.
01:01:54He does not have him out in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
01:01:56So, you know, obviously.
01:01:58I said Joel Rosario.
01:01:59Yeah, it's Alvarado.
01:02:01Right.
01:02:01With the equipment change and the jockey change, I think you guys are right.
01:02:06Mott is just going back to the drawing board with his horse and, you know, trying to see what he
01:02:11can do to solve this gate problem.
01:02:14All right.
01:02:14The big card on Saturday is at Parks.
01:02:17Two grade one races worth a million dollars each.
01:02:19Let's start with the Cotillion.
01:02:22And Al was a runner.
01:02:23The Kentucky Oaks winner, who couldn't handle counting stars, will be the headliner in there.
01:02:31I actually got kind of a sneaky horse that I'm going to pick in here is Bodacious Bay.
01:02:37The first time Saffy Joseph angle, to me, is always a good play.
01:02:42This looks like an improving horse.
01:02:44Ran second in the Monmouth Oaks last time out.
01:02:46And, Randy, I'll throw this to you because see what you think about this.
01:02:52I'm not going to, you know, be foolish enough to say that Al is a runner has no chance.
01:02:57But I think she's a bet against because in the buyer numbers, she's, you know, there's several horses in here
01:03:02that are really kind of run the same kind of numbers.
01:03:05If she's going to be heavily favored in there, you know, why not take a chance on another horse?
01:03:10Of course, I've come up with a horse that is kind of an, you know, off the wall pick.
01:03:14But how do you look at this?
01:03:17Well, yeah, I mean, you always look for value when you're gambling, obviously.
01:03:20And always a runner's eight to five in the program.
01:03:22She'll probably go lower than that since she was three for three lifetime until she ran into counting stars.
01:03:28And now counting stars has beaten her twice in a row.
01:03:30There's no counting stars in this spot.
01:03:32But, you know, so she's going to be a pretty doggone heavy favorite.
01:03:36But, you know, there are some horses with numbers in there that are competitive.
01:03:40And I'm with you, Bill.
01:03:42I mean, why not take a shot to beat her?
01:03:44I might take a shot with my Miss Moe, Tyler Gafleon from the rail.
01:03:49Going to show a little bit of speed there.
01:03:52Why not?
01:03:52This race does not overwhelm me by any means.
01:03:57Well, you might say the same thing about the Pennsylvania Derby, which after basically everyone who mattered ran in the
01:04:04Travers.
01:04:05And, of course, no trainer would dare bring their horse back.
01:04:07What, in four weeks or whatever it is?
01:04:09That would be insanity to run in a $1 million grade one race.
01:04:13You know, I mean, it's no secret that this is not a stellar rendition of the Pennsylvania Derby, which was
01:04:20won right by Baeza last year.
01:04:22He actually got out of the gate and won the PA Derby.
01:04:26I got a horse here, though, from a gambling standpoint, I actually kind of like quite a lot.
01:04:30That's Our Money Man.
01:04:32Take a look back at his Indiana Derby, where he was beaten by Leading Change, who came back to win
01:04:38the Travers.
01:04:39And, Randy, you don't agree with what I've said today, but maybe you will here.
01:04:45I thought he was the best horse in the race because he got squeezed badly at the start and lost
01:04:52several lengths there and lost by only a neck or whatever it was in the race.
01:05:01A key jockey change, nothing wrong with Axel Concepcion, but they go to Manny Franco in here.
01:05:08And that's, you know, you have to say that's a positive jockey change, as well as Franco's been riding coming
01:05:14off Saratoga.
01:05:15But, Randy, why don't you give us your thoughts on the Pennsylvania Derby?
01:05:21Other than the Bluegrass Stakes win, for further ado, I don't think he has run a race that would make
01:05:30me think he's a good bet against a horse like the Puma.
01:05:37Fourth in the Travers, fourth in the Haskell, ahead of further ado in the Haskell, although it was a sloppy
01:05:43racetrack.
01:05:44And I'm sure that might be a legitimate excuse for further ado's disappointing performance.
01:05:49But Gustavo Delgado is trying the blinkers on now for the Puma, the Puma.
01:05:55There are some other horses in here.
01:05:57Our money man's a nice horse.
01:05:58Igniter and Rick Dutrow look pretty good winning the Ellis Park Derby in what was a pretty fast race.
01:06:04Iron Honor.
01:06:05Chad Brown's putting the blinkers on Iron Honor with Jose Ortiz.
01:06:09He ran pretty well in the Haskell and Preakness.
01:06:12He beat both those horses we talked about in the Haskell.
01:06:15So there are plenty of options other than the favorite further ado.
01:06:19And I think it's a good race to take a swing again against the favorite.
01:06:23I have to agree.
01:06:25I like our money man.
01:06:26Have to root for my good pal, Brett Calhoun.
01:06:29This horse is a really good guy.
01:06:32And he ran a good race.
01:06:33I'm not sure the troubled start really would have made any difference.
01:06:37Leading Change was very, very good that day.
01:06:40But I'm going for him.
01:06:42And how about some Sass Master in here?
01:06:45Massive step up in class for him, for trainer Todd Pletcher.
01:06:48But this is a horse, a curling colt, who's always trained in the morning like a really good horse.
01:06:53I think he could step forward in a big way.
01:06:56His sloppy effort at Churchill Downs 2-back was a 96-by-a-speed figure, which is way on par
01:07:01with all of these.
01:07:03He ran a 92 last time from the rail at Saratoga and won very nicely.
01:07:07I like me some Sass Master in here.
01:07:11You know, there's also, and I'll be writing about this later on in the week, hopefully for the TDN.
01:07:18But there's a possibility.
01:07:19I don't think this horse is going to win.
01:07:21But what a story would be if Micanopy, coming off a win in the Smarty Jones stakes, which is the
01:07:27prep for this race,
01:07:29who is claimed for $8,000 in April, could possibly win this race.
01:07:37That would be an absolutely incredible story for trainer Michael Simone.
01:07:42He's having a real good year, one of the kingpins at Delaware Park.
01:07:47So keep an eye.
01:07:48I don't think the horse will win, but wow, what a cool story that would be.
01:07:51All right, let's wrap up this week's show.
01:07:53I want to thank our guest, and I also want to thank my team, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabin.
01:08:01And as they say each and every week, we've got to give a shout out to the people that work
01:08:05behind the scenes, the editors and producers.
01:08:07And they are the ones that really, when the show comes out, make it look so good.
01:08:13And we appreciate the work of Sue Finley, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.
01:08:19Enjoy the weekend of racing, especially the big day at Belmont Park.
01:08:24It'll be fascinating to see what happens in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
01:08:28And, Randy, what do you have to say here?
01:08:29Here's one second.
01:08:31You're right.
01:08:32Me Canopy.
01:08:34Oh, I got that.
01:08:36Me Canopy.
01:08:37I would have said my canopy.
01:08:38Me Canopy.
01:08:39Good job, Bill.
01:08:40Do you know where the name is?
01:08:41Yabba Dabba Doo.
01:08:42What?
01:08:42It's in Florida.
01:08:44It's a name of a town in Florida.
01:08:47Yeah, it's close to Ocala.
01:08:48It's an actual place.
01:08:49Okay.
01:08:49I think it's near, it's up in northern Florida.
01:08:53It's near Ocala.
01:08:53No, it's central.
01:08:55It's near Gainesville or something like that.
01:08:57Yeah, Me Canopy.
01:08:58All right.
01:08:58Guys, I'll work on this.
01:09:01I'll work on this.
01:09:02I'll try harder to pronounce these bizarre names that some of these horses come up with.
01:09:06Yabba Dabba Doo.
01:09:08That's it.
01:09:09All right.
01:09:10Once again, thanks for tuning us in.
01:09:12And we'll see you next week on the TDN Riders Room podcast presented by Keeneland.
01:09:18activian totalmente, and we'll see you next week on Monday.
01:09:19We'll see you next week on Monday.
01:09:23Bye.
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