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The sensational real story behind the Oscar winner's meeting with the Mexican drug lord, and the famous Hollywood figure who was pulling the strings back in Hollywood.
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00:06THE END
00:06Joaquin Archivaldo Guzman, the richest, most feared drug lord in the world, dreamed of his name in lights.
00:16Hollywood was going to immortalize him.
00:19He stood only 5 feet 6 inches tall.
00:22But with help from two glamorous movie starlets and an Oscar-winning actor,
00:28El Chapo would be bigger than Pablo Escobar, bigger than Scarface.
00:36Then, suddenly, the lights went out.
00:39And it was Hollywood's rebel with a thousand causes who flicked the switch.
00:45If any Hollywood celebrity would get mixed up in a caper like this, it would have to be Sean Penn.
00:50It's crazy.
00:56Hey, we need another one more.
00:58We need another one more.
00:59We need another one more.
01:03January 8, 2016.
01:06Mexican Navy Special Forces, Army, and Federal Police converge on a house in northern Sinaloa, Mexico.
01:13Inside is the most wanted man in the Western Hemisphere.
01:17A man considered to be the wealthiest and most dangerous drug trafficker in the world.
01:22A man who's embarrassed the Mexican government by escaping from two of its maximum security prisons.
01:32Amid the gunfire, the suspect slips away through a hidden tunnel.
01:36But he's captured in the street after hijacking a car.
01:41A few hours later, the suspect is paraded for the media.
01:47Then, he's returned to the prison he'd escaped from six months earlier.
01:56Joaquin Archivaldo Guzman, public enemy number one, has come to the end of his last tunnel.
02:02And the saga of the murderous drug lord, they call El Chapo, seems to finally be over.
02:09But, not so fast.
02:12Within hours of his capture, a bizarre only-in-Hollywood story would emerge about what transpired while El Chapo was
02:20on the run.
02:20If his capture had all the elements of an action movie, this story has even more.
02:27There's action, alright.
02:28Along with mystery, drama, intrigue, romance, even comedy.
02:39And, there's a woman in the picture.
02:41In fact, there are two.
02:44But the big news is his male co-star, a two-time Oscar winner.
02:53As the official story has it, Sean Penn met the fugitive El Chapo for an interview that he hoped would
03:00reopen a dialogue about drugs in America.
03:03He came away with something very different.
03:13And the story of what really happened behind the scenes, who was involved, and what everyone got from it, has
03:20never been told.
03:22Until now.
03:23It's the kind of story you really couldn't make it up.
03:27A Hollywood actor sitting in a five-star hotel gets this idea to go interview a drug lord for a
03:34rock and roll magazine.
03:35And then the police capture the guy who's on the lam, who escaped from prison by digging a tunnel through
03:42his shower.
03:43I mean, you really couldn't make this up.
03:48El Chapo, or Shorty, because he never grew above 5'6", and Sean Penn, who settled in at 5'8",
03:56lived dramatically different lives.
03:59But in some ways, theirs were parallel lives.
04:02And the fact that they'd star together in this real-life tragicomedy was almost predestined.
04:09Chapo is a mythological figure in Mexico.
04:11He's like Robin Hood.
04:13In Mexico, there are 32 families that own the country.
04:15And if you're not born into one of those families, your chances of success are rare or nil.
04:21And so he is seen as a folk hero because he was able to break out of his impoverished situation
04:27and become a megastar.
04:28Sean Penn's a pretty unusual character.
04:31I can't speak for Middle America, but my guess is that he's perceived as somebody who's one of those Hollywood
04:38liberals.
04:40Who's a little bit of a loose cannon.
04:42Who is kind of this rogue guy who's going off and doing kind of crazy things.
04:48But he doesn't care what Middle America thinks, for sure, anyway.
04:52So...
04:54El Chapo was born into a poor family, either on Christmas Day 1954 or in 1957.
05:01The records are sketchy.
05:03In Sinaloa State, Mexico.
05:06A small town called La Tuna.
05:10Sean Penn was born in 1960 into a well-to-do showbiz family.
05:15And raised on Point Doom in exclusive Malibu, California.
05:19Not far from Tuna Canyon.
05:23Sean Penn does come across as this really kind of scrappy, very intense guy.
05:28And you would think that he's grown up on the sort of mean streets.
05:31But actually, he had a pretty lovely childhood.
05:34He grew up in kind of paradise, really.
05:36He had a loving family.
05:37He had two nice brothers.
05:39They made home movies together.
05:40But he did have this kind of dark side to him.
05:43And there were issues there.
05:45El Chapo's father was a cattle rancher who farmed opium poppies on the side.
05:50Sean Penn's father was an actor and director who was blacklisted in the 1950s.
05:56And really, he was something of a war hero during World War II.
05:58But he was blacklisted after he wouldn't name names during the Red Scare.
06:02After he was blacklisted, he had to turn from acting to directing to make a living.
06:06And while Sean Penn got his first TV role at 13, his father cast him in Little House on the
06:12Prairie.
06:13El Chapo was 15 when he started up his first marijuana plantation.
06:19mass of drugs is a white fighter.
06:20Look, as far as people there are concerned, it is very...
06:25of America to blame these people that had no other option but to sell drugs.
06:31The problem with drugs is that the immense amount of money that it brings corrupts everything,
06:38from the corner cop to the president.
06:40You know, yeah, you could do something else, you know, that's an excuse.
06:44But I'll tell you, Sinaloa is a state in Mexico that has always been famous for this.
06:50Before Chapo, you had Caro Quintero, and before him, you had the...
06:54Sorry, I went through the plane, sorry.
06:57That's El Chapo.
07:00By the early 1980s, Sean Penn's future interview subject, El Chapo,
07:05was coordinating shipments for one of Mexico's major drug lords.
07:10Sean Penn was making his mark on Hollywood in the movie Fast Times at Ridgemont High.
07:15He started out as this very iconic character, as Jeff Spicoli,
07:18which is sort of this image of this pothead, idiot guy.
07:221985 was a game-changing year for both men.
07:26The murder of an American DEA agent led to the arrest of the leader of the Guadalajara Drug Cartel
07:33and El Chapo's rise as a drug trafficker.
07:36And an encounter with a pop star led to the near downfall of Sean Penn.
07:47It was January on a Hollywood soundstage when he met Madonna.
07:52She was shooting the video for Material Girl, the song that would define her image.
07:57So she was this kind of sexual revolutionary who really thrived on attention and drama, really.
08:02And he was this kind of Hollywood kid who, you know, had a bit of a chip on his shoulder.
08:07And it was an incredibly volatile mix.
08:09They were married eight months later, outdoors in Malibu.
08:12The wedding took place on her 27th birthday and just a day before his 25th.
08:17There was a huge amount of press attention.
08:19There were photographers circling in helicopters above.
08:22And legend has it that Sean fired off a pistol at one of the helicopters.
08:27The marriage ended after four years.
08:30But in his time with Madonna, Penn's life and reputation changed drastically.
08:35His public image went from intense, brilliant young actor to spoiled, violent Hollywood brat.
08:43Sean and Madonna back in the 80s really were the hot couple of Hollywood.
08:47They were the kind of Kim and Kanye's or the Brad and Angelina's of the day.
08:51They really were tabloid fodder and people just couldn't get enough of their crazy love story.
08:56Madonna really lapped up the attention.
08:58But for Sean, he was just too much of a hothead back then to really handle it.
09:01He lashed out at the paparazzi.
09:06He threw rocks at them.
09:09He served jail time after punching someone on set.
09:13So it really was a very, very dark time for Sean.
09:20By the end of the 80s, the man who'd be Sean Penn's second most controversial partner
09:25was running his own Sinaloa cartel, running drugs through 60 tunnels he'd built between Tijuana and San Diego.
09:33Meanwhile, Sean Penn was running from his tabloid image.
09:37He announced he'd quit acting because he really wanted to direct.
09:41He'd really had enough by that point of all of the attention, all of the tabloid headlines,
09:46and the whole Hollywood scene.
09:48And he realized that he'd just become a bit of a joke.
09:52He wanted to be taken seriously.
09:551993, El Chapo was arrested and sentenced to 20 years for drug trafficking and bribery.
10:01That year, Sean returned to acting in Carlito's Way, playing the attorney for a drug kingpin.
10:08With his shaved forehead and permed hair, he was unrecognizable.
10:15And with his next role, the real-life Sean Penn took on some changes as well.
10:20His desire to be taken seriously in the real world had led to a new career as a liberal Hollywood
10:26activist.
10:27He had his wild child period, and he's come through that.
10:32And I think he's matured and channeled that sort of wild child part of him
10:37to do really serious issues in his acting.
10:39He's a dead man walking, which takes on the issue of capital punishment, the death penalty.
10:44And he's also matured into his directing roles.
10:47And he has, in parallel, become an activist, a social activist.
10:55But perhaps nothing affected Sean Penn more than the death of his father, Leo, in 1998.
11:03Sean remembered him as a patriot whose country turned against him.
11:07And it seems that that's what set Sean off on his own journey to become a revolutionary, to become an
11:12activist.
11:14And with the new century and administration, Sean Penn's activism was about to take a turn
11:19that would culminate in his meeting with El Chapo.
11:31And all of a sudden, I see him.
11:33I see Sean Penn there, waiting for the suitcases.
11:36One thing led to the other one.
11:38He called me a pig, and I called him a communist.
11:47In 2001, to the great embarrassment of Mexican authorities, El Chapo bribed some guards and
11:54escaped from the maximum security Puente Grande prison in a cart of dirty laundry.
11:59He'd remain on the run for 13 years, picking up folk hero status among Mexico's poor.
12:05A Robin Hood, helping villages with roads and schools, while his cartel expanded from cocaine
12:12and marijuana to heroin, ecstasy, and crystal meth.
12:17That year, George W. Bush took office, and Sean Penn began running in a direction that would
12:23eventually lead straight into El Chapo's arms.
12:27Or at least that handshake.
12:31With George winning, and then I think the twists and turns of political events where suddenly
12:35you have 9-11 happen, and then suddenly it's, oh, we're going to Afghanistan, which makes
12:41sense, and then suddenly you have this strange pivot where you're going into Iraq, which doesn't
12:44make sense.
12:45You know, I think Sean saw the folly in the Iraq war long before, you know, mainstream media
12:51ever did.
12:52With Hollywood supporters cheering him on, Sean Penn would pull so many left-wing political
12:57stunts, we could easily forget he had time to pick up two Oscars for best actor along
13:03the way.
13:05He's very involved in matters of social justice and politics, and he also sometimes sees himself
13:13as a kind of self-appointed emissary of change in certain cases.
13:18Shouldn't you guys be out killing a princess somewhere?
13:21It seems that acting's never quite been enough for him.
13:24He wants to be a revolutionary.
13:26He wants to be a real-life hero.
13:27I think whether Sean was or wasn't an actor, I think he would still be an activist.
13:36December 2002.
13:38Sean Penn visits Iraq to protest the Bush administration's plan for a military strike.
13:442003.
13:45Back to Iraq.
13:472005.
13:48Iran.
13:49Both times as celebrity reporter for the San Francisco Chronicle.
13:53The editor who gave Sean Penn his press credentials was Sharon Stone's ex-husband, Phil Bronstein.
14:00So he knew a little something about the whole Hollywood world and the power of celebrity.
14:04And even though there was quite a lot of backlash from real journalists who went berserk when Sean
14:09Penn went to Iraq and Iran, Phil knew that it would get the clicks.
14:14And these days in journalism, clicks is really what it's all about.
14:202007.
14:21Penn delivers this memorable message to President Bush at a town hall meeting in Oakland, California.
14:28We cower as you point your fingers, telling us to support our troops.
14:32Will you and the smarmy pundits in your pocket, those who, those who bathe in the moisture
14:40of your soiled and blood-soaked underwear can take that noise and shove it?
14:47That same year, Sean Penn meets with Venezuela's president, Hugo Chavez, in Caracas.
14:53The Marxist Chavez praises Penn for urging Americans to impeach President Bush.
14:59It's this relationship that leads to a public confrontation, one that reveals a split, not
15:05only among Sean Penn's viewing public, but his colleagues in Hollywood.
15:10I compare Chavez to any devil that has been out there or there still is there.
15:15When I see him together, I couldn't believe it.
15:19And I tried to get a hold of Sean.
15:21He never wanted to talk to me.
15:22We co-starred in Colors, and we got along great, great.
15:27You know, he's an amazing actor, and we never spoke politics.
15:31I went to pick up my mother at the LAX, and she was coming from Miami.
15:36And all of a sudden, I see him.
15:38I see Sean Penn there waiting for the suitcases.
15:42I gotta say that I did get a little bit of anxiety, and oh my God, oh my God, what
15:47do I do?
15:47Should I go to him and finally talk to him?
15:50Oh my God, you know, because I know his temper, especially when our issues that, you know, that, like this,
15:58about politics, where, you know, they destroy people's lives.
16:03So I said to him, you know, it must be great to grow up as a communist the way you
16:09live.
16:11One thing led to the other one.
16:13He called me a pig, and I called him a communist.
16:19No.
16:20Sean is far from a ****.
16:22Sean is actually one of probably the truly most giving and truly charitable and truly decent human beings I've ever
16:34met in my life.
16:34He's far from a ****.
16:35I turn around to walk towards my mother, and he's screaming at me.
16:41Everybody there was so quiet.
16:44Must have been in shock.
16:45People were like, they couldn't believe what they were seeing.
16:49And I just turn around, and I scream with all my strength, communist ****.
16:57And I continue walking, and that was it.
17:01My mother, she started clapping.
17:062008.
17:07Sean Penn surfaces in Cuba.
17:10The Cub Reporter interviews President Raul Castro.
17:13A communist ****.
17:16Right, he's usually on the side of the left in some way, and often, you know, in opposition to whatever
17:24the position of the American government might be.
17:26And along the way, Sean Penn plays real-life action hero.
17:31In the wake of Hurricane Katrina, he flies to New Orleans and personally pulls people out of the floodwaters.
17:38He brings along two macho accessories, a shotgun and a personal photographer.
17:44Critics call it a PR stunt.
17:46If it is, the stunt backfires when his dinghy springs a leak.
17:55Then there's Haiti.
17:57After the 2010 earthquake, Penn wings in to the rescue.
18:01He brings in medicine and doctors.
18:03Personally runs a camp for thousands of homeless.
18:07He moves there, always armed with a Glock pistol in his waistband.
18:122012, in Pakistan, visiting flood-stricken villages.
18:182013, helps free an American from a Bolivian prison.
18:21He's not afraid to go down and get dirty and make things happen in the name of helping people.
18:28I think anybody that was sitting back, you know, behind a news desk or, you know, sitting in an air
18:33-conditioned room,
18:34making fun of Sean Penn for going out and helping people, I think those people need to look themselves in
18:39the mirror.
18:41I think his heart is in the right place and good for him, you know.
18:45He decided to do something social with his fame and for that you've got to give him credit.
18:50I'm not kissing his ass.
18:51I personally, I think his politics is whack.
18:55But, you know, he means well.
18:58He at least is trying to do something with his fame and for that, here.
19:05For that I take my hat off to Spicoli.
19:12And then comes February 22nd, 2014, the fifth anniversary of the night Sean Penn received his second Oscar for Best
19:21Actor.
19:22El Chapo, on the run since 2001, is trapped in a beachside condo in Mazatlan, Sinaloa.
19:29When the Feds bust in, he's naked in bed with his beauty queen wife and an AK-47.
19:36He's arrested and taken to the Federal Readaptation Center No. 1, the maximum security prison.
19:44He won't be there long.
19:46While in hiding, he'd made a new friend, a glamorous Penn pal he hopes will make him immortal.
19:53And the wheels are about to be set in motion for Sean Penn's greatest and most controversial adventure yet.
20:04Amongst the drug dealers and gangsters that I work with, El Chapo is somewhat of a hero because he stuck
20:12it to the man.
20:16While El Chapo was on the run for 13 years, he was described by the U.S. Treasury Department as
20:23the most powerful and wealthy drug trafficker in the world.
20:27Forbes magazine listed his worth at a billion dollars.
20:30And the FBI claimed he was responsible for 70,000 deaths.
20:40El Chapo was a legend throughout Mexico.
20:51He was even something of a pop star, subject of many narco-corritos, folk songs glorifying his crimes.
20:58He even paid to have some written.
21:04But to El Chapo, like many criminal figures before him, he would never be truly legendary until his story played
21:12out on the silver screen.
21:14Amongst the drug dealers and the gangsters that I work with, El Chapo is somewhat of a folk hero because
21:22he stuck it to the man.
21:23So I don't think that El Chapo didn't think that he made it, but he's up against many other cartels,
21:30and he wants to be the number one cartel and the number one drug dealer.
21:34And of course he wants a film made about himself.
21:37In hiding, he could look to his late Colombian counterpart, Pablo Escobar.
21:42For Colombia during that time, when I was very young, for Pablo Escobar, he was somebody to be reckoned with.
21:48It was fear.
21:50I think many people were afraid.
21:52That kind of reputation, the lawlessness, I think the stereotype of what a Colombian was, that that's exactly what led
22:01me to the law.
22:01An immigrant is not a violent drug lord.
22:04An immigrant's not a criminal.
22:06An immigrant, especially Latinos, were not poor and uneducated and heartless human beings.
22:14El Chapo moved more drugs and a larger variety to more places in the world than Escobar.
22:21But Pablo Escobar had been portrayed in many movies and television shows, including the sprawling Colombian series Escobar, El Patron
22:31del Mal, and most recently, the Netflix series Narcos.
22:35I spoke with a friend of mine who's one of the people whose life rights we had for Narcos, and
22:43he's involved with the DEA.
22:44And he said, El Chapo saw Narcos while on the run.
22:48Obviously, these guys have access to computers.
22:51And quite honestly, he probably had a lot of time on his hands with half the country looking for him.
22:59In his mind, El Chapo needed to go Hollywood and do it his way.
23:04I don't know if El Chapo wanted to be like Pablo Escobar, but I think they were probably cut from
23:10the same cloth.
23:11There's no doubt that there's a personality makeup of a cartel leader that certainly is boastful and wants attention.
23:20But there's another more practical reason for a desire to be represented as a larger-than-life figure in the
23:27media, which is this.
23:28To run a cartel requires intimidating your rivals.
23:33El Chapo doesn't have to do that.
23:36You can take my word for it, there will be many movies done of you when you're no longer with
23:42us.
23:43Pablo Escobar never worried about that.
23:45And yet, how many? He's on Netflix 24 hours a day.
23:48Look, if OJ can get a movie, Chapo can get many movies, you know.
23:53El Chapo saw his chance when he struck up a friendship with another Mexican drug lord.
23:58A beautiful one.
24:00A make-believe one on Mexican television.
24:03La Reina del Sur is a soap opera about a drug lord's wife who, after his death, decides to follow
24:12in his footsteps and take over the family business and does so.
24:16And so this soap opera was very novel for Mexican television because this is a soap opera where a woman
24:23was empowered.
24:24Drug trafficker Teresa Mendoza was played by a woman named Kate del Castillo, a veteran Mexican actress on the edge
24:32of 40.
24:33Kate del Castillo is a very beautiful, talented actress from Mexico City.
24:38And she started off in soap operas, which they call telenovelas.
24:44Kate is, I would maybe make a comparison to Jane Fonda because her father, Eric del Castillo, is a very,
24:55very respected, distinguished, leading man, actor from both television and film.
25:01And so she was Mexico's version of Hollywood royalty, Hanoi-Jane, Mexico style.
25:08Kate had found some success in the States in films and shows like Jane the Virgin and Showtime's Weeds, playing
25:16another crime boss.
25:17But her role in La Reina del Sur made her a superstar in Mexico.
25:22The character in La Reina del Sur is a ruthless, murderous drug lord because that's just the nature of that
25:28business.
25:29People liked her character and it was a beloved character.
25:34She had also something that was very unusual for a Mexican soap opera.
25:38She had kind of torrid love affairs.
25:40She would have a one-night stands and things that, you know, in Mexico, at least on their television shows,
25:46are just kind of taboo.
25:48Hi, I'm Kate del Castillo for PIDA.
25:50If you're thinking about going to a circus that uses animals, please reconsider.
25:56As a celebrity, Kate had her causes.
25:59But nothing like what she announced in 2012, the year after her show premiered.
26:04She went to her Twitter feed to announce that she trusted El Chapo more than the Mexican government.
26:10And she challenged the real-life fugitive drug lord to traffic in love.
26:16Well, having lived in Hollywood now for over 10 years, it's hard to discern when people are doing things for
26:24shock value.
26:26So, perhaps she saw the moment or sees the moment because of her fame in Mexico to make a statement
26:36that would maybe rumple some feathers or get people titillated by her comment.
26:42Next thing you know, Kate heard from El Chapo's lawyers.
26:46El Chapo wanted to send her flowers.
26:50Perhaps Chapo Guzman, from watching the show, Reina del Sur, or growing up watching her on soap operas, felt that
26:57he had some nexus or connection or friendship with her.
27:00The virtual relationship blossomed with flirty, sexy texts.
27:04We'll drink tequila and champagne. I'll take care of everything so you're comfortable.
27:10I will take care of you more than I do my own eyes.
27:13I am so moved to hear that you will take care of me. No one has ever taken care of
27:18me.
27:19Thank you for being such a great person. You are so beautiful in every way.
27:24I'm telling you, I feel safe for the first time in my life.
27:29My mother wants to meet you. I told her about you. Don't worry, nothing serious. Everything will be great.
27:36The Mexican government apparently has something similar to a wiretap law, and they were able to tap the communications of
27:47Chapo Guzman with Kate del Castillo.
27:49And therefore, Kate's texts were caught in this back and forth between Chapo and Kate.
27:57After El Chapo's recapture in 2014, he had a proposal for Kate. Not a wedding proposal, but a business one.
28:05He wanted his life made into a movie. A Hollywood movie. And he wanted Kate del Castillo to set it
28:12up and produce it.
28:14And that's when Kate was suggesting, perhaps, to Chapo that she could put together this dream team of Hollywood it
28:20people to put together this biopic film.
28:24Meanwhile, the man who'd broken out of prison once before was about to do it again.
28:29On July 11th, 2015, in El Chapo's cell at the Maximum Security Prison, a hole appeared in the floor of
28:37the shower stall.
28:39A security camera showed El Chapo stroll casually into the stall and drop out of sight.
28:46Talk about Hollywood.
28:49El Chapo's team of engineers had spent three months in Germany studying techniques for digging a tunnel, avoiding underground water
28:58platforms.
28:58The tunnel cost a few million dollars.
29:02It had lights, ventilation, and a rail line on which a mounted motorcycle would speed him to a construction site
29:09a mile away.
29:10Once he was able to escape, Chapo's lawyers sent a text to Kate saying he got out.
29:18And she said, yes, I know. I couldn't be happier.
29:22The escape didn't put the brakes on the movie plans.
29:25Kate found a Hollywood producer and asked him to be her partner on the project.
29:30Fernando Sulichen brought in his partner, Jose Ibañez.
29:34Both Argentinians who are big-time players in Hollywood.
29:38They work often with director Oliver Stone.
29:42The next step was setting up a meeting with El Chapo to make things official.
29:47And this was where another Mexican actress stepped in.
29:51Yolanda Andrade is a famous television personality in Mexico.
29:56She's a very beautiful, bubbly, vivacious person.
29:59And she has girlfriends.
30:01Yolanda is very much out to the public.
30:04She has one, if not two, talk shows on Spanish television.
30:08And she's also very beloved by Mexico.
30:12Not to the level of Kate, but similar.
30:16Yolanda's father, Rolando, allegedly had connections to El Chapo's cartel.
30:21Reports say that she helped arrange the meeting.
30:24Yolanda and Kate are rebels.
30:26Yes.
30:26Perhaps rebels with a cause.
30:28Everything was set.
30:30Kate was ready to present her Hollywood dream team.
30:33But there were a couple of complications.
30:35For one, Kate represented a tequila brand called Honor.
30:40And she was looking for investors.
30:43Maybe, perhaps, she thought that, you know, there would be some way to get him to invest in this business
30:49with her.
30:49Now, there are texts that the Mexican government has uncovered that talk about, you know, bring your tequila.
30:55You could go down to any corner store in Mexico and get a bottle of tequila.
30:57So, that leads me to believe it could only be the tequila that she was trying to promote to let
31:03him taste it or see if there was any interest on his part.
31:07And there was an even bigger complication.
31:10Sean Penn got word of the meeting and asked to come along.
31:14As far as Kate knew, it wasn't a bad idea.
31:17He was a Hollywood player who could definitely get her El Chapo movie made.
31:23So, Sean Penn goes down to Mexico with one agenda.
31:27His agenda is, let's see if we can meet this man and get his life rights and perhaps make either
31:32a documentary film or a Hollywood blockbuster.
31:35And Kate has that plan as well.
31:37But Kate perhaps has a second agenda.
31:40And the second agenda is this tequila bottle that she takes with her to this meeting.
31:44Now, remember, the official story is that Sean Penn flew into the Mexican jungle to write an article for Rolling
31:51Stone magazine.
31:52But the clues to his ultimate aim may be in that lengthy, windy, Rolling Stone piece.
31:59Penn writes of his mysterious connections and traveling companions in the El Chapo saga.
32:05One he called Espinosa, the owl who flies among falcons.
32:10The other, El Alto, a big man, worldly and well-connected.
32:15Espinosa is Fernando Zulicin, El Alto, José Abáñez, both Oliver Stone's producers.
32:24Word on the boulevard is that Stone was ready to put up $6 million for El Chapo's life rights.
32:32Was Sean Penn doing research to play El Chapo in an Oliver Stone film?
32:38Oliver Stone refused to comment.
32:44October 2nd, 2015.
32:49Van Nuys Airport.
32:51Sean Penn, Kate Del Castillo, and the Oliver Stone producers fly out in a leased Beechcraft Hawker business jet
32:59and set off for what would come to be known as the Bungle in the Jungle.
33:09Let's cut to the chase here.
33:11The whole thing is very much through the looking glass.
33:13At the end of the day, he sat there with a fugitive drug lord for seven hours or whatever it
33:18was and didn't interview him.
33:20They sat around and, you know, drank beers and ate tacos.
33:26The private jet carrying Sean Penn, Kate Del Castillo, and the Oliver Stone producers lands at an undisclosed airport in
33:34mid-Mexico.
33:35Flight records will say it's Guadalajara International.
33:38The group is then taken by minivan to a hotel.
33:42Penn will write that he's sure the DEA and Mexican government are tracking their movements.
33:47He's correct.
33:52At the hotel, the group is herded into a convoy of armored SUVs and driven an hour and a half
33:59to a smaller dirt airfield.
34:01One of the drivers is El Chapo's 29-year-old son, Alfredo.
34:06They board two small planes for a two-hour flight into the jungle of Sierra Madre.
34:12It's another exhausting 10-hour truck ride before Penn and his group arrive in a jungle clearing.
34:18And finally, there before him, the little man himself, El Chapo Guzman.
34:24Sean Penn had no idea what he was walking into.
34:27There was no way he could know what kind of temperament El Chapo could have, if he's a hothead, if
34:34he's been up for four days, if he's using his own product.
34:39He's a murderer.
34:40He's a drug dealer.
34:41He's definitely to be feared.
34:45This is the first time El Chapo has met Kate.
34:49Penn writes that he greets her like a daughter returning from college.
34:54Kate acts as Penn's translator in a seven-hour interview without notebook or tape recorder.
35:02Penn writes that El Chapo reminds him of Tony Montana, Al Pacino's character in Scarface.
35:12Written by Oliver Stone.
35:14Let's cut to the chase here.
35:16The whole thing is very much through the looking glass.
35:18At the end of the day, he sat there with a fugitive drug lord for seven hours or whatever it
35:23was, and didn't interview him.
35:25They sat around and, you know, drank beers and ate tacos.
35:28It may not have helped his Rolling Stone article, but I'm sure it helped him as an actor tremendously to
35:34see what his mannerisms are like, how he walks, how he talks.
35:39The seven hours of somebody, I'm sure, is a great study.
35:43When it's time to leave, Penn asks to take a photo to prove the meeting took place.
35:48It's his idea not to smile.
35:52Sean Penn and El Chapo make plans to meet in eight days for a more formal interview.
35:58But the authorities who had been watching make their move.
36:02As Penn and Kate wing back to Los Angeles, the Mexican military and DEA begin raids on El Chapo's strongholds
36:10in Sinaloa.
36:11El Chapo escapes with face and leg wounds.
36:17As the world closes in, El Chapo hides out in the coastal town of Los Mochis.
36:23He will not make the reunion with Sean Penn, but through text messages to Kate del Castillo from a satellite
36:30phone,
36:31he agrees to honor his promise to give Penn an interview.
36:35Sort of.
36:36This will fall far short of El Chapo and Sean Penn's dreams.
36:40Sean Penn will submit questions, which will be translated into Spanish and read to El Chapo by one of his
36:47men.
36:48El Chapo agrees to respond to the written questions on video.
36:53This is the result.
37:02The video runs 17 minutes.
37:05Sean Penn provides the questions he apparently presumes everyone wants to ask
37:09the most powerful, wealthiest drug lord in the world.
37:12A man with one billion dollars, responsible for 70,000 deaths.
37:27He asks very penetrating things like,
37:31what's your attitude toward violence?
37:39Really, that's not an interview.
37:41It is definitely a scoop.
37:43He's definitely a get.
37:44But he just gets to choose what he says, and there's no follow-up, and there's no context.
37:48It's a pale facsimile of a proper interview.
37:52Because Sean wasn't there, they phoned it in.
37:54And the guy who was asking the questions really was put in a situation where, you know,
38:00those questions, if they offend Chapo, his life would have been in peril, right?
38:05So you could tell his hesitation as he was asking them in Spanish.
38:16And Chapo would look at him, and let me rephrase that.
38:21I would have loved to, you know, to see Sean Penn sit down next to El Chapo and go,
38:25you see my movies?
38:26Huh?
38:27What do you think of Richmond High and Dead Man Walking?
38:30But maybe not Dead Man Walking.
38:31That would have been weird.
38:32In this list of questions, which, again, is not an interview, really, it's more like
38:39back page of the New York Times Magazine, fun Q&A with so-and-so, an interview is when
38:45you ask someone a question, they give you an answer, you come back again, and then you
38:50continue to probe somebody, right, to the degree that you feel is possible and understanding
38:56that you are a little bit captive in a captive situation where there's probably armed gunmen
39:02all around you to make sure you don't want to be rude, you don't want to be hostile in
39:05any way, but you, at the same time, want to ask a question.
39:08That was not what was going on.
39:10Sean Penn submits his article to El Chapo for approval.
39:14Then he submits it to his editors, and he waits for the world to discover his journalistic
39:19triumph.
39:23And perhaps Sean was advised by his lawyer to say, look, man, you better run out and write
39:29an article of Rolling Stone about this thing, so you can be protected under the First Amendment.
39:38On January 8, 2016, the military and police descend on El Chapo's hideout.
39:48Five of the drug lord's men are killed in the gun battle.
39:54But Shorty and one of his henchmen scramble into a tunnel, hidden by a mirror.
39:59They hide in a sewer for four hours before emerging out a manhole onto a busy street.
40:06They hijack a white car at gunpoint.
40:10And when the car breaks down in a cloud of smoke, El Chapo hijacks a red SUV.
40:16On a busy highway a few miles away, he's surrounded and arrested.
40:22The soldiers keep him in a hotel room until the smoke clears.
40:26His pretty shirt is gone.
40:32The next day, Rolling Stone publishes Sean Penn's article.
40:37It admits that El Chapo was given editorial approval, but claims he requested no changes.
40:44Reaction is swift and negative.
40:49This article was 10,000 words long, but it was mainly about Sean Penn.
40:53He talked about his genitals, about flatulence, about El Chapo's fashion.
40:57It really wasn't a journalistic piece as we know it.
41:00It's definitely problematic to show an article ahead of publication to the subject of that article.
41:08And generally speaking, no self-respecting publication will do that.
41:11If you know in advance that the subject you're writing about is going to have approval over the piece before
41:16you write it,
41:16then there's a good chance you're going to be more careful and more selective about what you put in the
41:21piece.
41:22When news breaks, Sean Penn is at a Haiti benefit at a posh Beverly Hills hotel.
41:28His date is Madonna.
41:30Madonna right here, Madonna.
41:32Criticism intensifies in the days to follow, along with an allegation from a U.S. government official
41:37that the Rolling Stone article was just a protective cover-up.
41:41The source tells Fox News that Penn could have faced criminal charges in the States
41:46for trying to make a movie deal with a significant narcotics trafficker.
41:51If I put on my lawyer hat for a minute, this could be two people running away from an incident
41:58and every man for themself.
42:00And perhaps Sean was advised by his lawyer to say,
42:04look, man, you better run out and write an article of Rolling Stone about this thing
42:07so you can be protected under the First Amendment freedom of the press
42:11because the freedom of the press protects interviews like this.
42:14But if you don't do this and it was just the movie deal,
42:17they may be able to nab you for something.
42:19Within days, Penn finds a sympathetic journalist to hear his side.
42:25Charlie Rose treats the actor very gently, about as gently as Penn was with El Chapo.
42:30Penn tells him he considers his big El Chapo-approved Rolling Stone article to be a failure.
42:37When Sean said it was a failure, I understood exactly what he meant.
42:41Everybody was talking about Sean Penn interviewing El Chapo
42:45instead of having the more important conversation of how are El Chapo's created.
42:51In the end, Sean Penn is left licking his wounds in Hollywood,
42:55working on his latest directing effort.
42:58Mexico's Attorney General has confirmed that Penn was essential in El Chapo's capture.
43:04I think Sean Penn didn't get a chance to, as he says,
43:08to get to the questions that he really wanted to ask,
43:12and I'm curious to know what those were.
43:14Kate now claims she was blindsided by Penn's plans for the Rolling Stone article
43:19and that he left her exposed and in danger.
43:24She's concerned that the Sinaloa cartel wants to punish her for the El Chapo debacle,
43:29and she's under investigation by the Mexican government for her dealings with him.
43:35She's living in Los Angeles and resisting Mexican government demands to return to Mexico.
43:47And then there's El Chapo, waiting to see if he'll be extradited to a prison in the United States,
43:53where a third escape would be less likely.
43:57In prison, he complains that the barking of guard dogs and a nightlight interfere with his sleep.
44:04And for the first time, El Chapo is not allowed conjugal visits.
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