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Kryzys migracyjny w Ceucie sprawdza solidarność Europy: starcie europosłów w „The Ring”
Ten tydzień w „The Ring”: eurodeputowani spierają się o kryzys migracyjny w Ceucie, rolę Maroka, reakcję Hiszpanii i solidarność innych państw UE.
CZYTAJ WIĘCEJ : http://pl.euronews.com/2026/09/11/kryzys-migracyjny-w-ceucie-sprawdza-solidarnosc-europy-starcie-europoslow-w-the-ring
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Ten tydzień w „The Ring”: eurodeputowani spierają się o kryzys migracyjny w Ceucie, rolę Maroka, reakcję Hiszpanii i solidarność innych państw UE.
CZYTAJ WIĘCEJ : http://pl.euronews.com/2026/09/11/kryzys-migracyjny-w-ceucie-sprawdza-solidarnosc-europy-starcie-europoslow-w-the-ring
Zasubskrybuj nasz kanał.Euronews jest dostępny na Dailymotion w 12 językach
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03:16are you who responsible for this mass illegal border crossing back at the end of July?
03:20No, we don't have clear evidence, but after years that we see, I think there are different
03:26actors who again and again try to test European Union and its values. So it might be third
03:31countries, governments, criminal gangs, social media, Internet and with that also big
03:38tech companies.
03:39więc to jest mixtień i nie jesteśmy jeszcze tam, żeby dokładnie znaleźć, kto robił to wszystko w ocenie Ceuta.
03:48A jak would you assess Spaniena z tą sytuacją?
03:52Muszę powiedzieć, że nieprawiam się z tą konclusią.
03:58Tak, oczywiście, mamy wielu aktorów, którzy są odpowiedzialni za tą sytuację,
04:02ale także mamy polityczną odpowiedzialność, a to jest odpowiedzialność Spaniena, Mr. Sánchez.
04:11On był informowany przed tą sytuacją od Spaniena z tą inteligencji.
04:16On miał możliwość dać jakieś forcesy.
04:21Więc co powinni on zrobić?
04:23On nie reagował na sytuację.
04:26Co powinni on zrobić?
04:26Co powinni on zrobić?
04:27On powinno mieć świadomość, kto jest teraz w Ceuta.
04:33On musi przeczytać z tych ludzi.
04:36On musi decideć...
04:38Co powinni on zrobić?
04:39To jest ogromne.
04:40Mamy około 80 tysięcy ludzi.
04:43On musi mieć kontrolę o Ceuta.
04:46On musi negoczyć z Marokko.
04:48To jest problem, który jest na dwóch strach.
04:52Spanien i Marokko.
04:54Pedro Sánchez, oczywiście, part of your political family.
04:57The socialists.
04:57Did he mishandle this crisis?
04:59Do you think?
05:00I don't care who is in government and from which political party.
05:03But whenever things like that are happening to what country ever.
05:07The first thing that we have to do is show solidarity.
05:11Which is also part of the common European asylum system.
05:15Which should be implemented and enforced since the 12th of June this year.
05:19And if you really believe something has been done from any member state within European Union, you can check.
05:26But the first reaction also is showing solidarity.
05:29Because otherwise we tell third countries you can test us.
05:33We are weak.
05:33And therefore I miss solidarity.
05:36There was no solidarity.
05:37Let's be honest.
05:38It was during the summer vacation as well that this instant happened.
05:41We didn't see any solidarity from any countries.
05:43But sorry, how we can show the solidarity if Spain doesn't ask us for what they needed from us.
05:52They said we have everything under the control.
05:55Was that a mistake?
05:55There is no one in there.
05:57Was that a mistake to ask so late for help?
05:58I think the Spanish government did what they could do in that concrete situation.
06:03Because yes, nearly 80,000 people arrived irregularly.
06:07But the big majority of them could be returned to Morocco within only hours.
06:13So I think they did their best in the very concrete situation.
06:16But of course, as still some people are remaining in Ceuta, which is a very small part.
06:23So they still need support how to deal with those who are still staying there.
06:28I disagree with them because I was in a mission in Melilla last week with EPP.
06:35We had it there really many MEPs.
06:39We are experienced in immigration issues.
06:43And in this time we asked, because we had a meeting also with policemen,
06:49what were present on our meetings.
06:52And we asked Pedro Sanchez for bringing Frontex to Melilla and Ceuta to help with the situation.
07:01What was his reaction?
07:02It was a reaction that no one will dictate him what he will do.
07:07And now his reaction is to take only 10 people to Ceuta to proceed,
07:13who is who, and proceed the situation and return the people back to Morocco.
07:19I think it's...
07:19You want to respond to that?
07:21I had to laugh a little bit because you did not answer the question
07:24what precisely Sanchez should have done in the situation when the people were upon arrived.
07:30Now you say he should have asked Frontex to come.
07:33But for what purpose?
07:35To hinder people to leave the sea and enter the country?
07:38And to shoot them down?
07:40I don't understand what Frontex could have done to improve the situation.
07:43Sorry, but I will respond it now very clearly.
07:48If you have an emergency situation, first what you have to do is make the situation secure and clear.
07:57And I think this is to send 500 soldiers or 500 policemen to Ceuta to find...
08:05And is it unrealistic also to think that one country alone can manage an EU external border
08:09when this kind of episode happens?
08:10And it's good to remind our viewers this is not the first time we've seen this happen.
08:15That's true. That's why I would like to repeat again and again.
08:20This is not really only a question on migration.
08:23Third country actors are testing us.
08:26We have seen it at, for example, at the Polish Belarus border.
08:30We have people, human beings were abused, were pushed and brought to the border.
08:35Now we see the same thing in Ceuta.
08:38And I think the question therefore is much broader.
08:41And we have to ask the question why third country actors are doing that, why they are testing us.
08:47And that's even more a reason to be united in solidarity.
08:51Well, on that very point, we did see the president and the mayor of Ceuta.
08:55He was here in Brussels this week with a cry for help, saying that his city is, quote, on the
09:00edge of the abyss.
09:01Speaking to the press, Juan Jesus Vivas, a member of the European People's Party, said that the Ceuta Institute should
09:09prompt Brussels to reconsider its collaboration with Morocco. Take a look.
09:19This behavior and this event, from our point of view, was possible due to the complicity of Morocco or the
09:25consent of Morocco, one or the other.
09:33And I think it's a very serious situation, because this means that their behavior is entirely unacceptable and it is
09:39a lack of respect to Ceuta, to Spain and to the European Union.
09:45.
09:45Juan Jesus Vivas there. What exactly can concretely the EU do now, apart from, of course, engaging in this blame
09:51game?
09:52We can help to find the bridges between Spain and Morocco, because the communication, how do you see, doesn't function
10:00very well in this moment.
10:02Do you trust Morocco?
10:03Yes, I trust Morocco, because Morocco, it's really a partner in many issues and especially in security help us a
10:11lot to fight the Islamic terrorists.
10:14Also, they give us many information. This is why we have to talk with Morocco.
10:19Now, first of all, I'm surprised that my colleague says he trusts Morocco, but Spain should stop cooperation with Morocco.
10:26But if they would have stopped cooperation, how could they have brought back people?
10:31I think what we have to do now, today in the current situation, is to help Ceuta.
10:36And one question could be, what should we do with the people who are still staying there?
10:41Do we have places within Ceuta and do they need more money, more staff to deal with them?
10:46Or is it having in mind that we are mostly talking about unaccompanied minors, even children, that they should brought
10:53to European member states,
10:56according to the Pact of Migration, as a matter of solidarity, so that their procedures will be done there, and
11:03then to decide if they can stay or have to go back.
11:06OK, that is another debate, of course, that's being held right now in Brussels on whether or not that solidarity
11:11mechanism exists or not.
11:13But now it is time to move on to the next round.
11:19So now it is time to get a real flavour of how the European Parliament chamber really works,
11:24when members of the European Parliament ask direct questions to each other.
11:28So I would like to start with ladies first and allow you please to address your first question to Tomáš.
11:33Thank you very much. And I will come back to something I mentioned just a minute ago.
11:37And I would like to ask you if you would agree to support a relocation of unaccompanied minors, children,
11:44to help SOTA and calm down the situation and thus also using the solidarity mechanism in the European Pact of
11:53Migration.
11:54Yes, I will respond to you directly. If there are some children and women in SOTA, of course,
12:01we can send them directly to Spain and proceed them if they are illegal migrants or they are refugees.
12:09But my response will be that really I have very good evidence about the situation in SOTA
12:16and 99% of people who cross the borders are men who are there illegally and they don't need our
12:25solidarity
12:26and they don't need our help. They need to be proceeded and return back to Morocco. It's clear answer.
12:33But that's not true. There are children remaining in SOTA and we should not ignore that.
12:37Yes, but it's really very small.
12:41Would the Czech Republic welcome these children?
12:42In the Czech Republic we are prepared to help Spain to solve the situation.
12:46We are prepared to send it there our policemen who will proceed these people and who will control who can
12:52cross the borders.
12:53But not welcome unaccompanied minors?
12:54No, no, no. We are absolutely strict against these quotas.
12:57This quota system helps only extremists to grow up in the European Union.
13:03Sorry, but we are not talking about extremists. You cannot say they are all extremists without having any proof.
13:11And now you say you are not willing to enforce the European impact on migration which needs to be used
13:19since the 12th of June.
13:21So you are going even against European legislation?
13:24No. I am saying that we have three types of help, how we can help the states.
13:30And one of the types of help is sending there. We can send there our forces and really bring the
13:38situation to the normal.
13:39Okay. And now your question please?
13:41My question is very easy. Do you think that really Spanish government did his work and they respond on the
13:48situation adequately?
13:52Now, first of all, we have to understand, having in mind that within hours 80.000 people arrived in Ceuta.
14:00The reaction was very good. And I think it was helpful that the people at the front opened the doors
14:06of the fences because otherwise even more people would have died.
14:10And it was very helpful that immediately the Spanish government took contact to Morocco and that also again, it feels
14:19like ours, most of the people could be returned.
14:22So yes, in the current situation they reacted perfectly. And now let's see what together as European Union we can
14:30do with the remaining people.
14:31Follow up?
14:33Yes. My second question. Do you think that all these people who cross the borders with Ceutas are refugees or
14:41how big percentage of the people who cross the borders with Ceutas are really, real refugees?
14:49Now, I don't know what you mean with real refugees. I think the big number of people that arrived within
14:56only hours only shows that there must have been a kind of orchestration
15:03Misinformation that was organized to bring the people. So I'm quite convinced that not everybody is an asylum seeker and
15:11needs international protection.
15:13Many were coming maybe to have another perspective, economic refugees, but that's something that we have to elaborate.
15:21We have to check who needs international protection, who not. And those who don't have a right to stay, of
15:28course, have to be brought back to Morocco if they are Moroccans.
15:31One final last question for Thomas.
15:33Now, I also would like to know how you see the situation. You fuel the debate about disinformation, saying this
15:41has happened because of regularization of migrants.
15:47But this did happen already a long time ago. And other member states also did regularize people. So why do
15:55you see a connection between regularization of people and in this case of Spain they mainly were coming from South
16:03America with the current situation?
16:07I have to say thank you very much for this question. I responded many times. I said there is many
16:12disinformation what we have to fight. This is why really I was very active in UDS.
16:19And I am fully supporting stop stop for anonymize accounts what can really be so strong as normal accounts and
16:34they have the same responsibility as our normal accounts in the social media.
16:40Because many of these things happen thanks to disinformation from the third actors. And then about the situation in Spain,
16:49the people from the South America came to Spain for long times.
16:57The problem of Spain is that the government doesn't react and doesn't return these people back if they don't have
17:06visas or they don't have permission to stay.
17:09That is the views. May I react? Because they arrived with a visa, but they started working and obviously they
17:16are needed in Spain. That's why they were regularized.
17:19But I'm happy that you say maybe regularization was not the problem, but misinformation. And I hope here we could
17:26work together.
17:27By the way, I don't think the problem is anonymous accounts because I see more and more people doing ugly
17:34things in the net while using their real name.
17:38Now we're getting a real. Now we're getting that later. And now it is time to hear from another voice.
17:46I'd like to bring in the voice now of the U.S. President Donald Trump. He's been getting involved in
17:51this conversation about Celta.
17:53He's spoken out sharply against Spain, declaring that it is, quote, very sad what is happening in Spain, a country
18:00with zero control over its borders.
18:04So why is Donald Trump getting involved in this conversation?
18:07No, I think there is a long history. Donald Trump has a big interest in weakening European Union.
18:13He's not only doing pressure with tariffs. He's accusing us whenever we try to force, for example, Big Tech to
18:22follow our rules, our legislation.
18:25He's saying we are acting back. And a weak European Union, a union that is split, is good for the
18:31American president,
18:32because Trump wants to make deals individually with each and every member state.
18:37So he has an economic aim in this.
18:39And this is a direct attack, of course, on Pedro Sánchez, the prime minister of Spain.
18:44We know that Donald Trump hates Pedro Sánchez.
18:48He doesn't have a very good relation with him and with current Spanish government.
18:52So he has every time claims something against Spain.
18:57And I would like to say part of this tweet was true, but I am absolutely sure that really he
19:05politicized much more this debate from his view,
19:10from U.S. view to show Pedro Sánchez that he is the loser of the situation.
19:16I think if you, as a big leader of a big country, need to call another political leader a loser,
19:26this shows back to yourself.
19:28And I think the real argument is he hates that Sánchez is not trying to charm him to get something,
19:35but he has taken a strong position.
19:37I describe only the situation. I don't charge Mr. Trump or Mr. Sánchez.
19:41Well, Trump, of course, facing midterm elections in just two months.
19:45But on that point, we can close this conversation on Donald Trump weighing into this debate.
19:49But stay with us here on The Ring as we take a very short break.
20:02Welcome back to The Ring, Eurie News' weekly debate show.
20:05I'm Maeve McMahon, and for this episode, I'm joined by the MEPs Tom Masatovsky and Birgit Sippel.
20:11And we're taking a closer look at the Southall migration crisis and how it's actually impacted the whole European Union.
20:18We also saw this week Denmark hosting talks with four EU countries on how to speed up the creation of
20:23migrant return hubs outside the European Union.
20:27But according to the EU border agency Frontex, the number of returns actually went up this year.
20:3333,000 people were returned to non-EU countries in the first half of this year.
20:38That's up from 30,000 in the first half of last year, an increase in around 10 percent.
20:43And around two-thirds returned voluntarily, 21,000 compared with 19,000 this year.
20:50So we don't really have a crisis on our hands, right, Tomáš?
20:53Yes, we have to continue with returns.
20:55I think it's very good news that the number is growing, but really it's very important to send a very
21:04strong signal.
21:05If you are not here legal, you have to go back to your country.
21:11Your reaction to that?
21:12I think, first of all, we have to realize that in the last two years the number of the overall
21:17arrivals already went down.
21:20Nevertheless, if people have no right to stay, it's okay that we return them to their country of origin.
21:26The return hubs are a totally different question because return hub means we bring people to a place they don't
21:32know where they have never been.
21:34It's expensive, and we make ourselves relying on third countries to do that.
21:41I think that's not a good option.
21:43I think it's really an Australian solution.
21:46They have the same solution, and we are inspired by some countries.
21:52I think that it's not optimal, but what is it optimal?
21:56Are you inspired by the Australian solution?
21:58Of course, I was in many countries to inspire how to proceed the migration, and I think after many debates
22:06here in European Parliament, I'm here 13 years.
22:09Also, I think that it's really one of the solutions, what we have to do.
22:15I don't agree, and if I may add one sentence linked to the return hubs.
22:20It's not only that I believe the return hubs are totally ineffective, will not help, but it's also the procedure
22:28that was decided to bring people in the return regulation that we deny very fundamental rights to people and simply
22:36bring them back.
22:37So there is some things to do to protect the foundation of European Union, which is rule of law and
22:43fundamental rights.
22:44Just last week, we saw the AFZ do very well in Saxony-Anhalt.
22:49Is that due to migration one of the major issues that they kind of won the elections on?
22:54I think the result in the elections has many grounds.
22:58It's true to one hand, the issue of migration was very popular, was very often mentioned, but at the same
23:04time, especially Saxony-Anhalt is a part of Germany where you hardly find many migrants.
23:10So that's not an issue, but I think this also adds into a feeling that people believe that politicians don't
23:19show interest in their real-life situation.
23:22And on the other hand, you have a political party like AFD, who is very far right-wing and is
23:28purely lying into the faces of people.
23:31And unfortunately, they don't realize that.
23:33And have our integration policies failed?
23:36Tomáš?
23:37I don't think so.
23:39You can see the situation in the Czech Republic.
23:41We had 500,000 of refugees from Ukraine, and they are fully involved in the Czech society.
23:49Also, we have it here really half a million of people, who are working, who are living with us.
23:56They have it, the children go to the schools, and they are fully integrated.
24:02But on the other side of the coin, you believe that all those arrived in Thauta are, quote, extremists, as
24:06you said earlier.
24:06No, I don't say that they are extremists.
24:09I said that many of them have a criminal history, and they really went from Morocco for the purpose to
24:17have a better life.
24:19If I'm correct, you just said many of the 80,000 irregular migrants have criminal backgrounds.
24:26We have it, there are many of the people, which you can check with them.
24:30Is there evidence of that?
24:31No.
24:32Yes.
24:32There was no screening done, no questioning of the people, especially regarding the big majority who already went back to
24:40Morocco.
24:41No one asked them questions about their background.
24:43So you can't say the majority has a criminal background.
24:47Sorry, we have it, many instruments.
24:48I was also a soldier.
24:50I was on the borders.
24:51Also, you have it, many instruments, how to screen the people.
24:54When you don't have it data, I need only your face, and I can really check where the people is
25:02from,
25:02and what he will do here, and where he was last, last two days.
25:07Okay.
25:08Well, now it is time to move on to our fifth, and our final round here on The Ring.
25:17As always, now for the fifth round, we like to do something a little bit different.
25:20I'm going to ask our guest, Emi Pisa, a set of questions, and you are allowed reply with either yes
25:25or no.
25:26Oh, God.
25:27Is that the oval?
25:28Okay.
25:29You can give it a shot.
25:30First question.
25:31Did Spain lose control of its external EU border?
25:33Yes or no?
25:34Yes.
25:35No.
25:35Yes or no?
25:36No.
25:37Could Pedro Sánchez resign because of this crisis?
25:39Yes or no?
25:40Yes.
25:40No.
25:42Did Brussels leave Spain alone?
25:44Yes or no?
25:46Member states left Spain alone.
25:48Did Brussels?
25:49No.
25:50Did member states leave Spain alone?
25:51Yes or no?
25:52We helped them with all the information and all the support what they asked.
25:57Did Morocco use migration for political leverage?
26:00Yes or no?
26:01Yet no evidence for that.
26:03Yes or no?
26:03We have to investigate them.
26:06Is another FAUTE incident inevitable?
26:08Yes or no?
26:10Without solidarity of European Union, it can happen again?
26:14No.
26:17Was Italy right to suspend Schengen temporarily?
26:20Yes or no?
26:20It was ridiculous.
26:22Yes, I agree.
26:24I think it was a very good idea.
26:26So you disagree?
26:27I disagree because really in the situation when systematically really there is no dialogue
26:35between the Spanish government and other member states about illegal migration and about
26:40the situation what they are now doing.
26:42But sorry, it's ridiculous.
26:44Ceuta is not even on the European continent.
26:48They are not even part of the Schengen area.
26:51So none of those people ever arrived in Spain.
26:54So why are you willing to control any kind of travel reaction?
26:58No, it's only the reaction to say that Spain have to take control above the borders.
27:04That's not a reason to start for the controls.
27:06That's against the legislation.
27:08Is Schengen in serious trouble?
27:10Yes or no?
27:11If member states act wrongly, then yes.
27:16Yes.
27:17Okay.
27:18And did you agree with anything you've heard from Tomáš today?
27:21Not much.
27:22And did you agree with anything?
27:24Yes, I think two, three percentage of the words that I heard.
27:28That's the view from the MEPs.
27:29We would love to hear your opinion on this debate.
27:32Please reach out.
27:33The ring at eurinews.com.
27:35That is our email address.
27:37In the meantime, thank you so much to you both for joining us.
27:39Thank you so much for watching.
27:40Take care and stay with us here on Euronews.
27:43Thank you.
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