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Poza zasięgiem? Spór europosłów o ośrodki powrotów migrantów w The Ring
W nowym wydaniu „The Ring” z Parlamentu Europejskiego w Brukseli Lena Düpont (EPL) i Juan Fernando López Aguilar (S&D) dyskutują, czy ośrodki powrotów przyspieszą odsyłanie nielegalnych migrantów.
CZYTAJ WIĘCEJ : http://pl.euronews.com/2026/04/09/poza-zasiegiem-spor-europoslow-o-osrodki-powrotow-migrantow-w-the-ring
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W nowym wydaniu „The Ring” z Parlamentu Europejskiego w Brukseli Lena Düpont (EPL) i Juan Fernando López Aguilar (S&D) dyskutują, czy ośrodki powrotów przyspieszą odsyłanie nielegalnych migrantów.
CZYTAJ WIĘCEJ : http://pl.euronews.com/2026/04/09/poza-zasiegiem-spor-europoslow-o-osrodki-powrotow-migrantow-w-the-ring
Zasubskrybuj nasz kanał.Euronews jest dostępny na Dailymotion w 12 językach
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NewsTranscript
00:07Hello there and welcome to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show, broadcasting here from the European Parliament in Brussels.
00:15On The Ring, elected members of the European Parliament go face-to-face on some of the biggest issues facing
00:23the European Union.
00:24Today we're focusing on migration, with new rules that allow deportation centres to be set up outside EU borders.
00:30Luis Alberto has more.
00:34On the 26th of March, the European Parliament adopted a reform enabling member states to set up migration return hubs
00:42in third countries for rejected asylum seekers.
00:46The measure marks a significant hardening of EU migration policy, allowing deportations to external facilities negotiated with partner states.
00:55The vote unfolded against escalating turmoil in the Middle East that has led to massive displacement in the region.
01:01In Lebanon alone, over one million people have been forced to flee their homes, according to the UN's International Organization
01:08for Migration.
01:11Although large-scale onward migration to Europe remains unlikely, the EU is moving towards stricter migration policies.
01:18In this context, German Chancellor Friedrich Merz faced widespread backlash after stating that over the longer term of the next
01:26three years,
01:2780% of the Syrians currently in Germany should return to their homeland.
01:33What does the European Parliament's rightward shift on migration mean for the future of asylum?
01:38And can the EU balance stricter migration policies with growing human rights concerns?
01:47They're the questions that we have for our contenders. Let's meet them.
01:52Lena Dupont, a German MEP from the Central Right European People's Party.
01:57She serves on the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs.
02:01Regarding returns in the third country concept, she said,
02:04The EU must speed up the rejection of clearly unfounded asylum applications.
02:09By applying the safe third country concept and an EU list of safe countries of origin,
02:13asylum procedures become faster and more efficient, while protecting those in real need.
02:19Juan Fernando López Aguilar, a Spanish MEP from the Socialists and Democrats Group.
02:24He serves in the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs,
02:27and is one of the European Parliament's most influential figures on migration and asylum policy.
02:33Before being an MEP, he served as Spain's Minister of Justice.
02:37Migration is a fact. It is not a threat.
02:40And walls are not the answer, said López Aguilar,
02:43highlighting the need to manage migration while respecting human rights.
02:48Juan Fernando López Aguilar and Lena Dupont, welcome to The Ring.
02:52The aim here is to give our viewers a glimpse of your debates inside the European Parliament,
02:57so you should feel right at home.
02:59So look, let's pick up on that vote.
03:01On these return hubs, you voted in favour.
03:04You say it's the missing piece of the puzzle. Why?
03:06Well, because it is the missing piece of the puzzle.
03:09We invested quite heavily in the previous term in the so-called Asylum and Migration Policy Pact,
03:14so the new Pact on Asylum and Migration.
03:16And that was always the missing part to that pact.
03:19It has been part of it before.
03:21It was taken out for political reasons, because we were not able to find an agreement.
03:25And in this term, we really need to make sure that this last missing piece of the pact is indeed
03:31implemented.
03:32But on the other hand, we've seen bodies like the Council of Europe
03:35warning that these hubs could create human rights black holes.
03:39Juan Fernando, what is your view here?
03:40Of course, we are concerned.
03:42Return hubs are not the answer,
03:45particularly when they are outside the borders of the European Union.
03:49Return hubs have no guarantees of respect to fundamental rights.
03:52They are not consistent with EU law.
03:54They are not consistent with the architecture we put in place
03:56when we adopted the Migration and Asylum Pact.
03:58And, of course, they give the chance to member states
04:01to, for an economic compensation,
04:04to some kind of a ruler outside the European Union,
04:08keep migrants out of our sight.
04:10And that's not the idea.
04:11Lena, how do you address these concerns?
04:13Well, first of all, your concerns were not just basically neglected or ignored.
04:18There have been part of the discussions.
04:20You have been, and your group have been on the table as well.
04:22But you decided to leave.
04:24You also did not support the compromise, for example, from the liberal rapporteur.
04:30And that was also not only about return hubs.
04:32Indeed, return hubs are in there, but still in the Parliament's mandate,
04:36we have the article on the fundamental rights,
04:38which are the basic assumption for the whole concept as such.
04:42We are speaking about security cases.
04:44We are speaking about really bringing the resources of the member states
04:47together with that of the European Union
04:50to make sure that afterwards more than one in five returnees actually is returned,
04:55which is the current case.
04:56But how can you be sure there will be oversight?
04:58On the return hubs as such, it's always based on agreements and arrangements
05:02which are bilateral or trilateral, multilateral.
05:05But do you really deep down trust these arrangements?
05:08Will it not be more kind of out of sight, out of mind?
05:10Well, if you look at the debate as such on return hubs,
05:14for example, when you're also debating with international organisations,
05:16they're also not saying it's not feasible.
05:19They're saying under certain conditions it is workable.
05:22And it stems from the fact that we know that most of the people
05:25actually do want to return to their region, to their country, if it's possible.
05:30But if it's not possible, and there are other opportunities
05:32in the vicinity of their home region,
05:34it should be feasible actually to also return people to there.
05:38But you fear people could be left in legal limbo.
05:40Of course. Let's make it clear.
05:43We socialists, we try to be part of the equation, but we're left aside.
05:48And the EPP preferred to join a majority with the far-right groups
05:53of the European Parliament, which are three far-right groups,
05:56and they were the ones to adopt this instrument.
05:59Of course, we understand that member states are concerned about returns.
06:05But return hubs, absolutely not, because they are externalizing the management
06:10of the whole issue.
06:11Besides, there are no guarantees to protect fundamental rights
06:14when they're outside the European Union, because those third states
06:19are not bound by EU law, are not bound by fundamental rights considerations.
06:23Besides, they're extending the time frame.
06:26There were 18 months, but now they are up to two years out of the...
06:32You're nodding your head in disagreement here,
06:34but Juan Fernando López has a point.
06:36In the past, you worked a lot, very closely with the socialists
06:39in this European Parliament, but now you're working much closer
06:43with the far-right.
06:44Well, let me do, probably get two things straight here.
06:47A, this question about the detention is not connected to return hubs.
06:51It's a different part of the legislation that we were discussing upon.
06:55And for security cases, I do think that there are credible reasons
06:59and credible examples in all member states why a prolonged detention
07:03sometimes can be not only necessary but needed.
07:06Second thing is, we have been proposing, and you speak about the concerns
07:11of the member states, the mandate we put forward for a vote
07:14is based on the council's position, on the commission proposal,
07:19where we thought that we needed to protect specifically the European angle
07:22of that proposal, and it's based on papers that the EPP had produced
07:26for a very long time, so known positions of ours.
07:30If we are not allowed to put that forward to a vote
07:33because someone else might jump on it, then actually we do have
07:37a bit of a difficult political discussion.
07:39And I very much respect the position of the S&D here.
07:42I know that it also has been a tough negotiations for them,
07:45but they were the ones deciding to leave the table.
07:47It was not us.
07:48We did our best, as we did, to be part of the majority,
07:53to adopt the Migration and Asylum Pact.
07:55But the thing is that, ever since this mandate started,
07:59there's been a new majority, the EPP leaning with three far-right
08:03political groups, and they have been the ones to somehow legalize
08:07the so-called Meloni practice with Albania.
08:10But it's not only Albania.
08:11It can be whatever, third country.
08:13Maybe in Africa.
08:15Why should a third country ruler accept that kind of a deal
08:19from a member state?
08:20Only because of economic compensation?
08:22Is that enough to protect the fundamental rights involved,
08:25to protect the minors, to protect the economic component minors,
08:28fundamental rights involved?
08:30Are there any legal considerations which are actually considered
08:33with the architecture that we finally adopted?
08:36No, the answer is not.
08:37Are there?
08:37We didn't have best to meet that concern, but they did not.
08:41All the models are based on a contractual, on a treaty basis.
08:46And that, of course, allows the European Union,
08:49the member states on their bilateral or multilateral level
08:52to really follow up.
08:54We have the attention and actually also, if needed,
08:57and I think that this is something that should be taken into consideration,
09:00also the support by the international organizations.
09:03So there will be a lot of emphasis.
09:05And describe a return hub to our viewers.
09:06How would it look like?
09:07Well, it depends on how the member states actually design it now,
09:10together with the Commission,
09:11as part of the, let's say, integral approach
09:14also to our third country corporation.
09:16And again, we're investing quite heavily in third countries,
09:19not only when it comes to border management
09:21and asylum capacities,
09:22but, for example, when it comes to economic prosperity,
09:25when it comes to fundamental rights,
09:26and so on and so forth.
09:27Does that not reassure you that the Commission
09:29and the member states together will design
09:30how these hubs should look?
09:31Not enough.
09:33Of course, we are aware that as to the so-called non-eligible people
09:38to stay, they are human beings.
09:40And they made it irregularly, never illegally.
09:45We object at cannibalisticology
09:47because they were not given the chance to make it regular.
09:50There have been no legal pathways,
09:52and that's been the very one demand of the S&D group
09:55right from the outset.
09:56Legal pathways should be open.
09:58Humanitarian corridors, humanitarian visas,
10:00legal pathways so that they don't have to risk their lives
10:03to make it irregularly to the European Union.
10:06Once they are here, of course,
10:08you have to tell the difference
10:09between those who are entitled
10:12to some kind of human rights consideration,
10:14particularly incumbent minors
10:15and women with minors and families in special conditions,
10:21so that they are given the proper treatment.
10:25But as to putting them out of our sight
10:28and making a deal with some third country ruler
10:31so that they can be somehow piled up
10:36for indefinite period of time
10:38in some return haps with no fundamental rights
10:41and with no binding legal considerations
10:44as to EU law,
10:45that's absolutely against the mandate
10:48of the European Union
10:49to respect international law,
10:51which includes humanitarian law,
10:52which includes human rights,
10:54as a first condition of EU external action
10:58and foreign policy.
10:59And the European Union, of course,
11:00fancies itself as a cheerleader
11:01of fundamental rights.
11:03Let me stop you there
11:04as we are just getting warmed up here.
11:10Now it is time for our viewers
11:11to get a real flavour
11:12of the European Parliament's chamber
11:14where MEPs ask questions directly to each other
11:16and sometimes it gets heated.
11:18So I would like to start with ladies first.
11:20Léna Dupont,
11:21you can address your very first question
11:22to Juan López Aguillard.
11:24Yes, for example,
11:25how do you actually get that together,
11:27that if Spain is going on
11:29such a huge regularisation programme
11:31that it will have repercussions
11:33for the rest of the European Union
11:35and then at the same time say
11:36we're looking for European solutions here?
11:38First of all,
11:39what Spain has done is not unprecedented.
11:41Many member states have resorted
11:42to regularisation.
11:43And have been criticised for that.
11:44And governments of different political colours
11:46have also resorted to regularisation.
11:47And have been criticised for that.
11:49It's a positive approach.
11:50Everyone, everyone is agreeing
11:53on that Spain is now the locomotive,
11:57the number one locomotive
11:58when it comes to economic growth
12:00and job creation,
12:01precisely because it has an alternative,
12:05positive view to migration,
12:07as opposed to the negative approach,
12:10which is the predominant,
12:11which is the prevailing site to migration
12:13and contaminates not only migrants,
12:15but also asylum seekers.
12:17So the thing is that
12:18when you have a positive approach to migration,
12:21when you give the chance to those
12:22who are already staying on Spanish soil
12:25and Spanish territory,
12:27and you give the chance to regularise,
12:28you're enhancing not only their human rights,
12:32but also the economy and job creation in Spain.
12:36Are you satisfied with that answer?
12:37Or would you like a follow-up?
12:38Well, it just basically creates
12:40another pull factor into the European Union.
12:43Quick reaction?
12:43And the Saxon thing is...
12:44Does that not create a pull factor?
12:45For me, it's more or less a sign
12:46of an overstretched capacity
12:48if you need to regularise things
12:50because you're not able
12:50to conclude procedures as such.
12:52I've been involved in migration debates
12:54for so long,
12:55and of course I understand
12:56it's a divisive issue.
12:57But having said this,
12:59there is nothing in the right
13:01and conservative rhetoric
13:03that does not lead to pull factor.
13:06Everything is pull factor
13:07to the negative approach to migration.
13:10When you treat them as human beings,
13:13that's pull factor.
13:14When you regularise them,
13:16that's pull factor.
13:17When you incorporate them
13:18into the job market,
13:19that's pull factor.
13:20Apparently, the only answer
13:22would be expelling them out
13:23or having them out of our side,
13:25whatever the cost,
13:26whatever it takes.
13:28And of course,
13:28that leads to an utter contradiction
13:31with the values
13:32and the EU law
13:33which you should be standing for.
13:35Juan Fernando López,
13:36has your opportunity now
13:37to address the question
13:38to Lena Dupont.
13:39Lena, I've known you for years.
13:41Are you happy
13:41that actually
13:42this return regulation
13:45was adopted by the EPP
13:47with the far right?
13:48I can picture the far right
13:50standing up
13:51in a standing ovation
13:52to themselves,
13:53happy of what they did.
13:56Are you happy
13:56with that legalisation
13:59of the Meloni practices,
14:00of externalising
14:01the migration management,
14:03of giving the third countries
14:05the chance
14:05to pile migrants
14:07and asylum seekers
14:08all together
14:09in indefinite time
14:11only for the sake
14:12of reassuring
14:14the member states
14:14that we will be somehow
14:16countering back
14:18the numbers of migrants
14:19which keep...
14:20So, three words.
14:21Are you happy?
14:23Well, of course,
14:24as you can say,
14:24it was a difficult decision.
14:27When we see
14:28that only one in five
14:29returnees,
14:30only 20% of those
14:31who do not have a right
14:32to stay within the European Union
14:33are still staying
14:35in the European Union.
14:36And it was always
14:37an integral part
14:38to the pact
14:38because on the one side
14:39of the medal
14:40you have the protection
14:42of those who are in need
14:44and granted protection.
14:45In the midst of the medal,
14:47you have the solidarity
14:48of the European Union
14:49taking care of responsibility
14:50and solidarity together.
14:52And on the other side
14:52of that coin,
14:53you have the return policies
14:55because the ones
14:56who do not have a right
14:57to stay within
14:58the European Union
14:59and this is not
15:00against a positive approach
15:01to migration
15:02or a treatment
15:03as non-humanitarian.
15:05It's just the simple
15:06following our own rules
15:08which has always been
15:09part of the pact,
15:10basically.
15:10And you know that
15:11because when we started
15:12negotiation on the pact,
15:13there were 12 regulations
15:14in there.
15:15And just because I'm aware
15:16you haven't answered
15:16the question,
15:17so I think you want
15:17to ask a follow-up.
15:18Let me make one point clear.
15:20Yes, the rate of returnees
15:22is low,
15:23but it's because of
15:24the lack of an architecture,
15:26diplomatic architecture
15:27of agreements
15:27being negotiated
15:29with third countries
15:30by the European Union
15:32in all
15:32which has got
15:33a single legal personality.
15:35And of course,
15:35those returns
15:36should be dignified,
15:38consistent with
15:39the fundamental rights
15:39and human rights involved
15:40and preferably voluntary.
15:43Okay, we've heard
15:43from our MEPs.
15:44Now it's time
15:45to bring in
15:46a new argument
15:47to this discussion.
15:51I would like
15:52to bring in
15:52the voice of
15:53Eve Getty,
15:54director of
15:54Amnesty International's
15:56EU office.
15:56She said that
15:57this vote
15:58marks a growing trend
15:59towards increasingly
16:01harmful,
16:02exclusionary
16:02and draconian
16:03policies on migration
16:04with worrying
16:05repercussions
16:06for due process
16:07and evidence-based
16:08policymaking.
16:09Far from reducing
16:10irregularity,
16:11these proposals
16:11risk trapping
16:12more people
16:13in precarious situation.
16:14Lena Dupont,
16:15that is the concerns
16:16that NGOs
16:17are having.
16:18Well, again,
16:19we are speaking
16:19about a process
16:21that has been
16:21followed through
16:22from the asylum
16:23application onwards
16:24to the
16:25rejection of
16:26the asylum claim
16:28and forward
16:29to the return
16:30procedure.
16:30So it's not like
16:32we are just
16:32basically rejecting
16:34people on
16:35unfounded base.
16:36But again,
16:36it's in the pact
16:37itself.
16:38It is said
16:39that a fact
16:40of protection
16:40needs to be
16:42there.
16:42and this
16:43is not only
16:44a moral
16:44obligation,
16:45but it's also
16:45a treaty
16:46obligation,
16:47a law
16:47obligation
16:48for every
16:48member state
16:49of the
16:49European Union
16:50and this
16:50is the
16:50principle
16:51of everything
16:52that can
16:52be done
16:53under the
16:53arrangements
16:54or agreements.
16:55And we've
16:55heard from
16:56Charlie
16:57Weimers,
16:57that's the
16:57Swedish
16:57negotiator
16:58from the
16:58right-wing
16:59party,
16:59the European
17:00conservatives
17:00and reformers
17:01hailing this
17:02as the new
17:02consensus
17:03in Europe,
17:04chanting
17:04the new
17:04era of
17:05deportations
17:06has begun.
17:07This is why
17:07NGOs are so
17:08concerned.
17:09Juan Fernando.
17:09I reject
17:10that kind
17:11of a rhetoric
17:12for sure.
17:13And I agree
17:14with the concerns
17:15that have been
17:15expressed by NGOs
17:16as to the flaws
17:18of this new
17:19policy and
17:20legislation that
17:21the European
17:21Union is putting
17:22in place with
17:23the cooperation
17:23of the right
17:24with the far
17:24right.
17:25It is the
17:25contrary.
17:26The thing
17:26is that
17:27for
17:29member states
17:30to have
17:31agreements
17:31with third
17:32countries,
17:33it deters
17:34the very
17:34possibility
17:35of the
17:35European
17:36Union
17:36deploying
17:37a diplomacy
17:37in itself.
17:38And it
17:38should be
17:39the European
17:39Union
17:39negotiating
17:40with countries
17:41of transit
17:42and origin
17:43so that
17:44that cooperation
17:45with countries
17:47of transit
17:47and origin
17:48would have
17:49as a result
17:49first
17:50giving
17:51opportunities
17:51for people
17:52to stay
17:53where they
17:53are born
17:54instead of
17:54doing
17:55whatever.
17:56Even
17:56resorting
17:57to human
17:57trafficking
17:58and international
17:59criminal
17:59organizations
18:00to make it
18:01to the
18:01European
18:01Union.
18:02But once
18:02they are
18:03in the
18:03European
18:03Union,
18:04I insist
18:05they are
18:06human
18:06beings
18:06and they
18:08are
18:08subject
18:08to the
18:09Charter
18:09of
18:09Fundamental
18:10Rights
18:10which
18:10protects
18:11not only
18:11European
18:12citizens
18:12but all
18:13human
18:13beings
18:14under
18:14EU
18:15law
18:15and they
18:16have
18:16been
18:16applied
18:17EU
18:17law
18:18they
18:18have
18:18been
18:18implemented
18:19EU
18:19law
18:20in the
18:20worst
18:20scenario
18:21in the
18:22worst
18:22possibility
18:23you might
18:24think of
18:24which is
18:25precisely
18:25that
18:26member states
18:26are now
18:27legalizing
18:28those
18:29practices
18:29with third
18:30countries
18:31with no
18:32legally
18:33binding
18:33agreements
18:34whatever
18:35no
18:36legally
18:37binding
18:37agreements
18:38just
18:38some
18:39kind
18:39of
18:39a
18:39deal
18:39suffices
18:40to keep
18:41human
18:42beings
18:42out of
18:43the
18:43European
18:43Union
18:43without
18:44human
18:44rights
18:44considerations
18:45just
18:46let me
18:46also
18:47from
18:47my
18:47understanding
18:47because
18:48I
18:48fully
18:48agree
18:48with
18:48you
18:49on
18:49the
18:49point
18:50of
18:50the
18:51diplomacy
18:51actually
18:52and I
18:52fully
18:52agree
18:53also
18:53with
18:53you
18:54on
18:54the
18:55redemption
18:56of
18:56that
18:56language
18:57because
18:57we're
18:57speaking
18:58about
18:58human
18:58beings
18:59whatever
18:59we
19:00did
19:00with
19:00the
19:00asylum
19:01and
19:01migration
19:01pact
19:02again
19:02returns
19:02being
19:03integral
19:03part
19:03of
19:03it
19:03we're
19:04speaking
19:04about
19:05human
19:05beings
19:05so
19:06this
19:06is
19:06the
19:07first
19:07thing
19:07second
19:07thing
19:08I
19:08agree
19:08with
19:08you
19:08on
19:08the
19:08migration
19:09diplomacy
19:09but
19:10if
19:10now
19:11member
19:11states
19:11together
19:11with
19:12the
19:12European
19:12Commission
19:12or
19:13bilaterally
19:14trilaterally
19:14are
19:15actually
19:15implementing
19:16those
19:16treaties
19:17and
19:17corporations
19:18that
19:18you
19:18called
19:19for
19:19with
19:19the
19:19migration
19:20diplomacy
19:20then
19:21how
19:21can
19:21it
19:21be
19:22bad
19:22because
19:23it
19:23is
19:23based
19:24on
19:24treaties
19:25and
19:25agreements
19:26and
19:26arrangements
19:26that
19:27are
19:27not
19:27only
19:27enforceable
19:28but
19:28also
19:28are
19:29able
19:29to
19:29follow
19:29up
19:29if
19:30we
19:30want
19:31to
19:31create
19:31more
19:32possibilities
19:32for
19:33people
19:33to
19:33stay
19:34in
19:34an
19:34area
19:34where
19:34they
19:35have
19:35a
19:35perspective
19:36where
19:37they
19:37are
19:37close
19:37to
19:37their
19:38region
19:38where
19:38they
19:38have
19:38safe
19:39and
19:39stable
19:39conditions
19:41before
19:41making
19:42the
19:42route
19:43to
19:43the
19:43European
19:43Union
19:44why
19:44shouldn't
19:44we
19:44do
19:45that
19:45we've
19:46heard
19:46from
19:46our
19:46MEPs
19:47now
19:47it
19:47is
19:47time
19:48to
19:48take
19:48a
19:48short
19:48break
19:48here
19:49on
19:49the
19:49ring
19:49but
19:49we'll
19:50be
19:50back
19:50very
19:50soon
19:51with
19:51some
19:51more
19:51political
19:52punch
20:00welcome
20:01back
20:01to
20:02the
20:02ring
20:02your
20:03news
20:03is
20:03weekly
20:03debate
20:04show
20:04broadcasting
20:04here
20:05from
20:05the
20:05parliament
20:05in
20:06Brussels
20:06I'm
20:07joined
20:07by
20:07the
20:07MEP
20:08Juan
20:08Fernando
20:08López
20:09Aguiar
20:09and
20:09Lena
20:10Dupont
20:10and
20:10this
20:11week
20:11we're
20:11focusing
20:11on
20:11the
20:12topic
20:12of
20:12migration
20:13and
20:13the
20:13point
20:14of
20:14return
20:14hubs
20:15and
20:15we
20:15wanted
20:15to
20:15share
20:16this
20:16data
20:16with
20:17you
20:18480
20:19000
20:19people
20:20were
20:20ordered
20:20to
20:20leave
20:20the
20:21European
20:21Union
20:21each
20:21year
20:22but
20:22only
20:22three
20:2220%
20:23or
20:2325%
20:24are
20:25actually
20:25returned
20:26and
20:26according
20:27to
20:27Eurostat
20:27in
20:272024
20:28it
20:29was
20:29Germany
20:29Spain
20:30Italy
20:30and
20:31France
20:31that
20:32received
20:3270
20:33to
20:3375%
20:34of
20:34all
20:35EU
20:35asylum
20:36claims
20:36and
20:37this
20:37comes
20:37as
20:371
20:37million
20:38asylum
20:38cases
20:39are
20:39pending
20:39across
20:40the
20:40European
20:41Union
20:41so
20:41why
20:42Juan
20:43Fernando
20:43do you
20:43think
20:44this
20:44is
20:44happening
20:45what
20:45is
20:45causing
20:45these
20:46delays
20:46because
20:47you
20:47need
20:48arrangements
20:49agreements
20:49legally
20:50binding
20:50agreements
20:51with
20:51countries
20:52of
20:52origin
20:53not
20:53with
20:53any
20:54country
20:54because
20:54if we
20:54didn't have
20:55these
20:55figures
20:55you wouldn't need
20:56the return
20:56of
20:56return
20:57regulation
20:57lacks every
20:59meaningful link
21:00with the country
21:01of origin
21:02it doesn't matter
21:03where do you belong
21:04as long as
21:05there's
21:06someone
21:06willing
21:07to
21:07keep
21:08you
21:08out
21:09of
21:09our
21:09sight
21:09meaning
21:10that
21:11maybe
21:12some
21:12sub
21:12Saharian
21:13Africa
21:13coming
21:14actually
21:14from
21:15let's
21:15say
21:16Mali
21:17or
21:17let's
21:17say
21:18Ghana
21:19can be
21:20returned
21:20to
21:21whatever
21:21country
21:22to
21:22Libya
21:23to
21:23Morocco
21:24to
21:24Tunisia
21:25as long
21:26as
21:27the ruler
21:27is willing
21:28to have
21:29them
21:29is that
21:30fair
21:30of course
21:31not
21:31what we
21:32need
21:32is a
21:33legal
21:33architecture
21:36with
21:36countries
21:36of
21:37origin
21:37so
21:37that
21:38you
21:38make
21:38certain
21:39that
21:39you
21:40actually
21:40returning
21:41someone
21:41to
21:42the
21:42country
21:42where
21:43that
21:43particular
21:44someone
21:45actually
21:45came
21:46from
21:46but
21:46you
21:47on
21:47the
21:47other
21:47hand
21:47believe
21:47that
21:48the
21:48return
21:48haps
21:48will
21:48increase
21:49efficiency
21:50and
21:50that
21:50in
21:50a
21:51couple
21:51of
21:51years
21:51those
21:51figures
21:52will
21:52be
21:52very
21:52different
21:53well
21:53first
21:53of
21:54all
21:54again
21:54return
21:55haps
21:55is
21:55not
21:55the
21:55only
21:56thing
21:56that
21:56is
21:56in
21:56return
21:57regulation
21:57as
21:57such
21:58we
21:58are
21:58also
21:58speaking
21:58about
21:59member
21:59states
21:59streamlining
22:00their
22:00procedures
22:01helping
22:01each
22:01other
22:02out
22:02with
22:02resources
22:03taking
22:03European
22:04do you
22:05trust
22:05member
22:05states
22:06will do
22:06that
22:06I mean
22:06member
22:07states
22:07are the
22:08ones
22:08asking
22:08for
22:09that
22:09so
22:09I
22:09assume
22:10they
22:10will
22:10also
22:10then
22:11follow
22:11up
22:11on
22:11your
22:11own
22:12proposals
22:12and
22:12because
22:12implementation
22:13is
22:13always
22:13the
22:14big
22:14challenge
22:14here
22:14right
22:15one
22:15thing
22:15is
22:15promising
22:16something
22:16of course
22:17it
22:17is
22:17implementation
22:18is
22:18the
22:18devil
22:19in
22:26than
22:27driving
22:27up
22:28what
22:28they
22:28have
22:28been
22:28asking
22:28for
22:29but
22:29again
22:29I
22:30mean
22:31your
22:31idea
22:32and
22:32to a
22:33certain
22:33extent
22:33I
22:33do
22:33subscribe
22:34to
22:34that
22:34but
22:34that
22:35would
22:35have
22:35already
22:36worked
22:36in
22:36the
22:36current
22:37cases
22:37because
22:37there
22:38is
22:38the
22:38international
22:38obligation
22:39to
22:40take
22:40back
22:40your
22:40own
22:41national
22:41citizens
22:41and
22:42this
22:42is
22:42what
22:42third
22:43countries
22:44are
22:44not
22:44doing
22:44in
22:44some
22:44cases
22:45so
22:45we
22:45need
22:45a
22:46leverage
22:46of
22:46course
22:46it
22:46is
22:47to
22:47the
22:47best
22:47use
22:48if
22:48we
22:48do
22:48it
22:48together
22:48at
22:49European
22:49level
22:49but
22:50we
22:50also
22:50know
22:50that
22:50member
22:51states
22:51have
22:51do
22:51some
22:53links
22:53to
22:53third
22:54countries
22:54where
22:54they
22:54have
22:55a
22:55good
22:55cooperation
22:55already
22:56and
22:56the
22:56last
22:56point
22:57actually
22:57on
22:57that
22:57it's
22:58about
22:58and
22:59this
22:59is
22:59the
22:59part
22:59of
23:00the
23:00agreement
23:00or
23:00the
23:01arrangement
23:01to
23:01really
23:02put
23:02forward
23:02perspectives
23:03for
23:03the
23:04people
23:04there
23:04so
23:04this
23:04is
23:05an
23:05integral
23:05part
23:05of
23:06the
23:06policy
23:06as
23:07such
23:07let
23:08me
23:08tell
23:08you
23:08something
23:08I
23:09chaired
23:09the
23:09committee
23:10of
23:10just
23:10and
23:10home
23:10affairs
23:11for
23:1110
23:11years
23:11and
23:12I
23:12represented
23:12the
23:12European
23:13Parliament
23:13the
23:13Council
23:13of
23:14Ministers
23:14of
23:14Interior
23:14I
23:15heard
23:15them
23:15saying
23:16live
23:17fly
23:18them
23:18to
23:18Rwanda
23:19and
23:19my
23:19question
23:20was
23:20why
23:21Rwanda
23:21because
23:22only
23:22do you
23:23think
23:23they're
23:23black
23:23they're
23:24indistinct
23:24in
23:24Rwanda
23:25and
23:25whatever
23:25African
23:26country
23:26no
23:27matter
23:27where
23:28they
23:28belong
23:28to
23:28the
23:29thing
23:29is
23:29that
23:29we
23:30need
23:30actually
23:31to
23:31change
23:32our
23:32look
23:38come
23:38to
23:39terms
23:39with
23:39countries
23:40of
23:40origin
23:40and
23:41needless
23:41to
23:42say
23:42transit
23:43to
23:43so
23:44that
23:44agreements
23:45are
23:46binding
23:47in
23:48the
23:48legal
23:48way
23:48and
23:49consistent
23:49with
23:50EU
23:50law
23:50not
23:51any
23:52agreement
23:53would
23:53suffice
23:54and
23:54this
23:54language
23:54Lena
23:55Dupont
23:55that
23:55we're
23:55hearing
23:55inside
23:56ministries
23:56meetings
23:57and
23:57used
23:57by
23:58politicians
23:58is
23:58having
23:58an
23:59impact
23:59in
23:59society
23:59we've
24:00seen
24:00an
24:00increase
24:00in
24:00racist
24:01attacks
24:01and
24:01xenophobic
24:02attacks
24:02in
24:03countries
24:03like
24:03Germany
24:03well
24:04this
24:04was
24:05mainly
24:08at
24:09national
24:10level
24:10we
24:11tend
24:11to
24:12not
24:12address
24:12the
24:13concerns
24:13of
24:13the
24:13citizens
24:14and
24:14there
24:14is
24:15an
24:15overstretch
24:16in
24:16capacities
24:17in
24:17almost
24:17all
24:18member
24:18states
24:18which
24:19is
24:19why
24:20it
24:20is
24:20so
24:20important
24:20that
24:20we
24:21have
24:21a
24:21distinction
24:21between
24:22asylum
24:23and
24:24migration
24:24because
24:25the
24:25people
24:26you're
24:26addressing
24:27are
24:27completely
24:28different
24:28the
24:28capacities
24:29the
24:29structures
24:30you
24:30need
24:30are
24:30completely
24:31different
24:31and
24:32I
24:32think
24:32that
24:32this
24:32is
24:32one
24:33of
24:33the
24:33starting
24:33points
24:33and
24:33what
24:34people
24:34experienced
24:35in
24:35the
24:35past
24:35is
24:36that
24:36people
24:36felt
24:37the
24:37need
24:37that
24:37actually
24:37we
24:38had
24:38lost
24:38control
24:39what
24:39we
24:39have
24:40been
24:40proposing
24:40here
24:41both
24:41in
24:41the
24:41pact
24:41and
24:42with
24:42the
24:42mandate
24:42of
24:43the
24:43parliament
24:43on
24:43returns
24:44is
24:44that
24:45we
24:45put
24:45forward
24:45a
24:46structured
24:46and
24:46ordered
24:47a
24:47humane
24:48way
24:48of
24:49organising
24:50asylum
24:50and
24:50migration
24:51and
24:52it
24:52is
24:52now
24:52time
24:52for
24:52the
24:53fifth
24:53and
24:53the
24:54final
24:54round
24:58so
24:58now
24:58it's
24:59time
24:59for
24:59something
24:59a
24:59little
25:00bit
25:00different
25:05answer
25:05yes
25:05or
25:06no
25:06okay
25:07let's
25:07begin
25:08our
25:09current
25:09EU
25:10returns
25:10too
25:10slow
25:11yes
25:11or
25:11no
25:12yes
25:13yes
25:13or
25:14no
25:14yes
25:14you
25:15both
25:16agree
25:16on
25:16that
25:16one
25:16should
25:17EU
25:17countries
25:17set up
25:18return
25:18hubs
25:18abroad
25:19yes
25:19or
25:19no
25:19yes
25:20no
25:21yes
25:21very
25:22clear
25:22no
25:22is
25:23irregular
25:23migration
25:24a threat
25:25today
25:25to the
25:26European
25:26Union
25:26yes
25:27or
25:27no
25:27not
25:28as
25:29such
25:29yes
25:30or
25:30no
25:30no
25:31definitely
25:31not
25:31it's
25:32a
25:32fact
25:32and
25:33asylum
25:33is
25:34a
25:34right
25:34but
25:35it
25:35needs
25:35to
25:35be
25:35in
25:36an
25:36ordered
25:36and
25:36structured
25:37way
25:37should
25:38rejected
25:38asylum
25:39seekers
25:39be
25:39returned
25:40to
25:40safe
25:40third
25:40countries
25:41yes
25:41or
25:41no
25:41yes
25:42no
25:44should
25:44miners
25:45be
25:45exempt
25:46from
25:46return
25:46hubs
25:47yes
25:47or
25:47no
25:47yes
25:49according
25:50to
25:50the
25:50mandate
25:50should
25:51the
25:51European
25:51Union
25:52prioritize
25:52efficiency
25:53over
25:54individual
25:54claims
25:55yes
25:55or
25:55no
25:55yes
25:56no
25:57should
25:58Frontex
25:58have
25:59greater
25:59powers
26:00yes
26:00or
26:00no
26:00in
26:01the
26:01returns
26:02process
26:02as
26:03such
26:03yes
26:03it
26:04should
26:04have
26:05a
26:05mandate
26:05to
26:05cooperate
26:06better
26:06with
26:07third
26:07countries
26:08is
26:08the
26:08EU's
26:09migration
26:10commissioner
26:10doing a
26:11good job
26:11Magnus Brunner
26:12yes or
26:12no
26:12yes
26:14well
26:16well
26:17well
26:17well
26:18well
26:18I mean
26:18it's
26:19not
26:19personal
26:19but
26:20I can
26:21only
26:21be
26:21sorry
26:21to
26:22see
26:22that
26:22his
26:23proposals
26:23have
26:24been
26:24endorsed
26:25with
26:26standing
26:26ovation
26:27by the
26:27far
26:27right
26:28could
26:29war
26:29in the
26:29war
26:29Middle East
26:30yes or
26:33no
26:33we
26:33are
26:34monitoring
26:35very
26:35actively
26:36the
26:36situation
26:36in the
26:37region
26:37and
26:37we
26:37are
26:37prepared
26:39yes
26:39yes
26:40and
26:41we
26:41shouldn't
26:41panic
26:42we
26:42can
26:42handle
26:43it
26:43well
26:43that
26:43was
26:43my
26:44next
26:44question
26:44is
26:44the
26:44European
26:45Union
26:45prepared
26:45for
26:46this
26:46scenario
26:46yes
26:46or
26:47no
26:47not
26:48in
26:48the
26:48current
26:48circumstances
26:49not
26:49in
26:50the
26:50current
26:50so
26:50called
26:51relation
26:51of
26:51forces
26:52but
26:52according
26:53to
26:53EU
26:54capacity
26:54for
26:55sure
26:55it
26:55should
26:56so
26:57we
26:57shouldn't
26:57panic
26:58we
26:58can
26:58handle
26:59it
26:59as
26:59long
26:59as
26:59we
27:00do
27:00it
27:00according
27:00to
27:00EU
27:00values
27:01and
27:01EU
27:01law
27:02what
27:03is
27:03of
27:03utmost
27:03importance
27:04is
27:04that
27:04we
27:04closely
27:05cooperate
27:05with
27:06our
27:06countries
27:07our
27:07partner
27:07countries
27:08that
27:08we
27:08have
27:08in
27:08the
27:09region
27:09final
27:10question
27:10did
27:10you
27:10agree
27:11with
27:11anything
27:12you
27:12heard
27:12from
27:12Lena
27:12Dupont
27:13yes
27:13or
27:13no
27:14yes
27:14and
27:15did
27:15you
27:15agree
27:15with
27:16anything
27:16you
27:16heard
27:16from
27:16Juan
27:17Fernando
27:17Lopez
27:17Aguiar
27:17yes
27:18not
27:18with
27:18everything
27:19but
27:19with
27:19anything
27:19yes
27:20yeah
27:20we
27:21give
27:21a
27:21glimpse
27:21there
27:21of
27:22how
27:22you
27:22actually
27:22can
27:23meet
27:23compromises
27:24here
27:24in
27:24the
27:24European
27:25Parliament
27:25Lena
27:25Dupont
27:25and
27:26Juan
27:26Fernando
27:26Lopez
27:26Aguiar
27:27thank you
27:27so
27:27much
27:27for
27:27joining
27:28us
27:28here
27:28on
27:29The
27:29Ring
27:29and
27:30thank you
27:30for
27:31tuning
27:32in
27:32you
27:32can
27:32write
27:33us
27:33your
27:33views
27:33or
27:34comments
27:34the
27:34ring
27:35at
27:35your
27:35news
27:35com
27:36that
27:36is
27:36our
27:36email
27:37address
27:37take
27:37care
27:47you
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