- 1 week ago
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:01I will!
00:20Come on, Ronnie. Good boy.
00:24Come on, Ronnie.
00:26Hi, I'm Chris Roberts, otherwise known as Ranger Chris.
00:29I'm from Aberdeer, and I'm 43 years old.
00:32Come on, Eva.
00:34I've always had a passion for prehistoric life,
00:36so I really wanted to do something that I enjoy doing and loved.
00:40And they're going to meet the dragons.
00:42You excited?
00:44Whatever you do, don't eat them, OK?
00:46You as well, don't eat them.
00:48Wow!
00:50Chris's dinosaurs aren't the only blast from the past
00:53to hit the den tonight,
00:56as Joe Wicks makes a welcome return as a guest dragon.
01:00Joe, I'm glad you came back.
01:02The dragons didn't scare you off.
01:03No, you didn't scare me off. I loved it.
01:05And I'm just really grateful that you've invited me back,
01:06so I thought, you know, you're going to get me in once,
01:08then kick me out and say no.
01:09But, you know, I'm here,
01:10so I'm ready to get going again. Let's invest.
01:12Let's do it.
01:13Once that goes green, we're walking, OK?
01:16And let's go.
01:16We've been trading for eight years,
01:19and it is time to take the business forward to the next level.
01:23This is it.
01:24I'm well-versed at taming dinosaurs,
01:27and today I'm hoping I can tame those dragons.
01:30Good luck, Eva.
01:32Good luck, Ronnie.
01:37Wow.
01:42Wow.
01:44Oh.
01:49Look at that.
01:51Woo!
01:52Easy.
01:57Back it up.
01:58Back it up.
01:59Come on, Ronnie.
02:00Come on, Eva.
02:00Back it up a little bit for me.
02:02Woo!
02:03Hello, dragons.
02:04My name is Ranger Chris,
02:06and I'm the proud owner of Dinomania.
02:10Dinomania, we use these amazing puppets
02:13that you see in front of you,
02:14and many others, actually,
02:15to entertain and educate children all over the UK.
02:19We don't just educate, though.
02:21We actually also visit many festivals.
02:25We go to lots and lots of different events and museums,
02:28and we even have our own very special Dinomania tour.
02:33That tours the UK selling tickets to our amazing show
02:36where these dinosaurs come up close and personal
02:39to all of the children and adults who come along.
02:42And we now are becoming one of the largest dinosaur
02:45entertainment businesses in the UK.
02:48And to date,
02:48we currently have over 3 million combined followers online.
02:52So, why am I here today, you may ask?
02:54Well, we're thinking of actually opening up our very own Dinomania base camp.
02:59A fixed location where children and adults can come along
03:02and learn more about dinosaurs and the prehistoric world.
03:06Wow.
03:06So, dragons.
03:08I'm looking for £100,000 for 15% of Dinomania in this entirety.
03:14And we're hoping that today...
03:16Well, you know what?
03:17I've been taming these dinosaurs for a long time.
03:19We're hoping to tame some of you dragons today.
03:21So, no, behave.
03:23But does anyone want to come up and maybe...?
03:26Could I...?
03:26Yeah, of course you can, of course you can.
03:28I'd love to.
03:28Do you want to come forward? Come on.
03:29You behave though.
03:30I give them a little bit of a...
03:31Bringing dinosaurs to life through educational tours and workshops
03:35is the offering from Chris Roberts.
03:38The eyes are amazing. They're so good.
03:41He's looking for a £100,000 investment...
03:45Good girl. Well, she doesn't bite there.
03:48..in return for a 15% share of his business.
03:51Well done.
03:52Come on, then, you.
03:53Guest dragon Joe Wicks...
03:54Thank you, guys. Well done.
03:56..is first up with the questions.
03:58Oh.
04:02Ranger Chris, what a pitch, mate.
04:04I absolutely love that you've got me captivated.
04:06And your personality and your energy
04:08and your presentation of that is incredible.
04:10So, I want to know, like, what's your background
04:11and how did you become Ranger Chris?
04:13Um, it's a long story.
04:15My background's actually in window fitting.
04:17Oh.
04:18Yeah.
04:18Did you see that one coming?
04:19And I didn't really like it, to be honest.
04:22But when I first saw one of these dinosaurs on YouTube,
04:25funny enough, I actually thought, I need to get one.
04:28And the story started there, really,
04:30when I got my first dinosaur, Ronnie the T-Rex.
04:32It's amazing.
04:33They're so realistic.
04:35And, obviously, I've got four kids myself
04:36and they love anything dinosaur.
04:39It's such an imagination thing.
04:40It really brings its life seeing them move as well.
04:42Of course, yeah.
04:42And that's one of the key aspects of the business.
04:44When you're sitting there as a child with your toys,
04:47playing with dinosaurs,
04:48and you just want them to become real again.
04:51And that's one of the things we've gone for in the business.
04:54So, talking about real, tell me the numbers.
04:56Give me some hard numbers about the business,
04:58the growth, what you've been doing.
04:59So, just before COVID, we would turn over 150,000.
05:02And we netted a small profit of 7,000, I believe.
05:08And then, of course, COVID hit.
05:10That year, we only turned over 23,000 with a net of minus 37.
05:16But the next year, we took it up to 280,000 in turnover.
05:24The net was 90.
05:26And then the year after, we'd done a 268 turnover.
05:30The net was minus 27.
05:33And now, we currently are looking at 270,000 with a net of around 30.
05:43When I look at the growth profile of your business from a revenue perspective,
05:47over the last three years, you've been pretty much stagnant.
05:49Stagnant. You're correct. Yeah.
05:50And so, as an investor, for me to get a return anytime soon in the next sort of five, six
05:56years, we need to see some pretty considerable growth.
05:58Yes.
05:58How big do you think this business can be? And how do you prove that to me?
06:02So, I'm a one-man band. I've been doing it all on my own for the past eight years.
06:07And there's only one of me. And I've started to learn that now.
06:11And I think we need to make more teams that can go to different festivals.
06:15We do loads of festivals.
06:17So, your idea is to hire more Chris's around the country?
06:22Not just more Chris's, more teams that can go into schools.
06:24Okay.
06:25Educational-wise.
06:26And how big do you think this business could be?
06:28The business, with regards to...
06:31We talked about the base camp at the beginning, making a fixed location.
06:34I think that fixed location can be a huge success with even a 60% capacity.
06:41You're talking about the base camp turning over about 1.2 million.
06:44You said you have 3 million followers online.
06:47Mm-hmm.
06:47What platform were you referring to?
06:49So, we got 1.5 million on YouTube.
06:54Okay.
06:55Oh, sorry. 1.6 million when I... Sorry.
06:58Subscribers?
06:58Subscribers.
06:59That's amazing.
06:59And we've got 1.5 million on TikTok.
07:04Okay.
07:04What is the average view you get on a YouTube video?
07:07On a YouTube video, on a short, the average view on a short can be anywhere between
07:1320,000 to 30,000.
07:16But we've had some massive ones as well.
07:18On a long-form video.
07:19Long-form is terrible.
07:20Okay.
07:20So, on a long-form video, what's your average view?
07:22Average view, 2,000.
07:24Okay.
07:24So...
07:25There's the problem.
07:25Yeah.
07:26So, something's happened with your YouTube channel.
07:27Because a channel with 1.6 million subscribers should never be getting 2,000 views.
07:31I often look at it myself and I've been sort of trying to work it out.
07:34This is one of the reasons I'm here today, to be honest.
07:37Shorts, what happened was YouTube promoted shorts and it really pumped everyone's channels.
07:40But the real important thing is that longer-term sort of average view time.
07:44How many of the videos are shorts?
07:45Most of them.
07:46Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
07:47I'm going to say 90%.
07:50Okay.
07:51So, that's an explanation.
07:52Yeah.
07:52We do a lot of shorts.
07:53Ranger Chris.
07:54Hello.
07:54Your actual plan for growth is this Basecamp.
07:57Yes, yeah.
07:58And where would it be and what are the characteristics that you're looking for in order to put it
08:04in a particular location?
08:05So, I'm looking for somewhere with a high footfall.
08:07That would be quite important.
08:09We have looked for one venue in Swansea.
08:13That's very good links, a very good parking.
08:16And what would that cost you?
08:17It was...
08:208,000 a month.
08:228,000 a month?
08:23Yeah.
08:23Okay.
08:24Okay, that's doable.
08:25And what would be the set-up cost?
08:28The overall set-up cost, we're looking at around 80,000 to 100,000.
08:32So, I've got to say 80,000 to 100,000 sounds really tiny when you're looking at a theme
08:37park to attract people.
08:40I'm not going to call it a theme park as such.
08:42Okay.
08:42What is it then?
08:43A base camp.
08:44So, it's an indoor...
08:44Yeah, you might call it a base camp.
08:45All right.
08:46I'm just talking generic.
08:47Okay.
08:48So, if we look at it in other respects, sort of, where you'd see kids go into a soft play
08:52area, it would be like that, where there's dig pits for kids and things like that, but
08:58they'd have the added extra of the walk-around dinosaurs.
09:03Lots of, sort of, interactive animatronics and things like that.
09:08Ranger Chris Tuka.
09:09Hello, Tuka.
09:10Well, one-man band.
09:14Yes.
09:14You've been amazing.
09:15Thank you very much.
09:16You've been amazing.
09:17So, first of all, are you taking a salary out of all this?
09:21I am, yes, yeah.
09:22My salary at the moment is about 1,000 pound a month.
09:26And can you live on that?
09:27No, no.
09:28Luckily enough, I've got a fantastic wife who has a fantastic job.
09:33She works very hard.
09:34And she's supporting you.
09:36She is doing an amazing job of supporting me, yeah.
09:39So, I'm very curious about this fixed location.
09:42Yes.
09:44Assuming you walk out of this den, you get an investment from one or whatever dragon,
09:49how does that first two or three years in that one location look like financially?
09:55The fixed location, the first base camp, if we opened, I'm going to say for the first job,
10:00you're looking at a net profit of about 300k.
10:05So, in other words, from the 300 profit, you could think about opening number two?
10:10Definitely.
10:11Definitely base camp number two, base camp number three.
10:14So, basically, how many do you believe you yourself could actually grow this to?
10:20So, if we're going into year one, and let's say every year you open one for three or four years,
10:27how big can this get?
10:29If we did open one per year, for instance, I think we could easily do five to six different venues
10:35in the UK.
10:35OK.
10:36So, that would have been five million, six million?
10:38Um, yes, yeah.
10:40You would obviously...
10:41You would have worked out some...
10:42Just to give us an idea of...
10:44Yeah, of course.
10:44So, say we open three, for instance.
10:47Yeah.
10:47Then, I think, realistically, then you're looking at around about four million.
11:00Ranger Chris, I've got to jump in.
11:03Peter.
11:04This is a bit of a dinosaur of a business.
11:07I mean, you've spent a long time trying to build a business here.
11:11Yes.
11:11And you're now giving forecasts that I think are, frankly, impossible.
11:14OK.
11:16The reality is that you have created a really interesting business for you.
11:23Yes.
11:23And you have created a business that has not given you much income.
11:29However, it's probably brought a lot of joy to a lot of young people.
11:33For this to have any opportunity of becoming a business at all, you have to have one thing.
11:39Scale.
11:41And there is no question that one person can get scale.
11:44You know, look what Joe has done.
11:45Yes.
11:45He brought the whole nation together at a time when we desperately needed something.
11:49Yeah.
11:49And he had the most amazing impact, not just because of his personality.
11:53It was because he was bringing something to the community.
11:56And you can clearly see that he was passionate about doing that.
11:59Yeah.
11:59And I think you're that person too.
12:02And I think that's where we're at.
12:04But how do we scale this?
12:06How do we scale this?
12:08How do we scale this?
12:08Is what I'm questioning.
12:09Because that's what I'm concerned about.
12:10Of course.
12:10Having a venue, I don't think is the answer for you.
12:13Because you're going to have for £80,000, you'll have a piece of land and a Terrapin.
12:18And that's not good enough.
12:19So I can't invest because I just don't see there's room for an investor here.
12:23I'm going to say that I'm out.
12:24But thanks for bringing some dinosaurs into the den to meet some dragons.
12:29Thank you, Peter.
12:31Chris.
12:32Hi.
12:33And I am getting massive deja vu from when you were talking about the projections and
12:40the business and the fixer.
12:41So we, in my business, we had a successful business and we decided to open fixed premises.
12:47And if we could take X amount turnover, we had a fixed overhead base, making this amount
12:51of profit and then we'd roll and one would fund the next and would fund the next.
12:55Exactly what you just explained to Tuga.
12:57And I got wrapped up in when we were doing it and I got really excited.
13:02But then the reality, you know, if you don't hit that 1.2 million and you only hit a million,
13:07that 200 is straight off your bottom line because you've got your fixed overheads.
13:10Yeah.
13:10And it so quickly can become what looks so great on paper, the reality is starkly different.
13:17So I'm really worried for you on the new business front.
13:20But your existing business, you've done a great job getting it where it's got to,
13:24building that business, making it profitable, everything.
13:26Yeah.
13:26You are a successful businessman.
13:28Hold on to that.
13:29Take that forward and make a bigger success of the business that you've got.
13:33But I can't invest.
13:34So I'm going to say I'm out.
13:36I wish you all the luck.
13:41You know, as I've sat here and listened to this conversation,
13:43we're spending all of our time interrogating the financials of a new business.
13:47And so we're not investing in the product we have in front of us.
13:49We're investing in a promise.
13:51We're not investing in the business, we're investing in your belief.
13:54And that's really an issue as an investor.
13:56Because even well-intentioned beliefs and well-intentioned promises don't always come true.
14:00Okay.
14:00So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you the best.
14:06Ranger Chris, I would urge you, you have got something that people want.
14:11You know, and it is, you're brilliant.
14:14They're brilliant.
14:16So I'd use what you've got.
14:17Use what you've got.
14:18And it's you.
14:19It's those amazing dinosaurs.
14:20Yeah.
14:21You know, and your ability to be agile and move around and show these to loads of different people.
14:27So I wish you all of the best.
14:29And I know you're going to find a way to it.
14:31But I won't be investing.
14:32I'm out.
14:39Well, Tuca, you've come here pitching a business you've already got.
14:44Yes.
14:45And I helped you a little bit.
14:46I always say it's like making a movie without a script in your head.
14:49Yeah.
14:50That's what I did for you.
14:51How big could it be?
14:52Yeah, yeah.
14:53Right?
14:53But the script wasn't really there.
14:55And because you've got your passion, and because this is your business, I don't think you want an investor.
15:02Honestly.
15:04But I like you.
15:06And I hope you go far.
15:08But today, I'm not going to join in that journey.
15:11And I'm out.
15:13Thank you, Tuca.
15:16Ranger Chris, before I do my close, I just want to ask you a question.
15:19Are you a dad?
15:19Have you got kids?
15:20Yeah.
15:21I bet you're an amazing dad.
15:22I can see you on YouTube doing longer form content.
15:25I can see you, like, if you can capture that excitement and education.
15:29Because I'm always looking for channels where my kids can learn and watch and have fun at the same time.
15:34So I would, if I were you, if I was in your position with your kind of passion and all
15:37these amazing, you know, assets you've got, the dinosaurs,
15:40I would try and focus on longer form YouTube content.
15:42Because if you worked hard, before you know it, you could be earning two, three, four, five grand a month.
15:47It's really possible.
15:48Yeah.
15:49You don't need millions of views to have a really good channel.
15:51And so I would focus on that, you know, do what you're doing and try and bring that into longer
15:55form content, like little seven or eight minute episodes.
15:57It could be amazing.
15:59And I'd tune in, me and my kids would be watching it.
16:01So, yeah, I want to wish you the best of luck.
16:03This is a business I don't think I can invest in, but you, I think you're going to do amazing.
16:07So good luck and I'm out.
16:10Thank you very much.
16:11Thank you very much, mate.
16:15That's it for Ranger Chris, whose time in the den draws to a close, leaving his chances of investment with
16:22a dragon as dead as the dinosaurs.
16:25Of course, I'm a little bit disappointed, but I think that they really did love the dinosaurs.
16:30They loved me as well, which is what the ultimate aim was.
16:33I thought your point about long form YouTube was really on the money.
16:36Yeah.
16:37We're going to go and do a show tomorrow, which is going to be amazing.
16:41And it has inspired me a little bit to push myself a little bit harder and maybe prove them wrong.
16:47Wow.
16:49I love my business and it's going to continue with or without the dragons.
17:06Hi, my name's Steve and I'm from Swindon and this is my business partner, Sam, and he's from East London.
17:11Energy.
17:13Our product is trying to shake up the way things have always been done in a particular industry.
17:17And also it's an alternative to dairy for those on a plant based diet.
17:23Oh, interesting.
17:24What's nooch?
17:26Plant based seasoning.
17:28Cool.
17:28I like the brand. It's pretty cool.
17:30We're hoping for Jo and Deborah.
17:33Deborah can bring a lot of experience in the, especially in the vegan food and drink space.
17:38And Jo is, you know, nutritionist, sports, all that sort of thing.
17:42So it's, you know, great fit for us.
17:45My heart just went crazy.
17:47Absolutely crazy.
17:48Me too.
17:49You ready to face the dragons?
17:50Yes, let's do it.
17:53Okay.
17:54What are you doing?
17:55Hot potatoes.
17:56Boom.
18:07Hi dragons.
18:08My name is Sam.
18:09And I'm Steve.
18:10And we're the co-founders of Notorious Nooch.
18:13We're here today asking for a £100,000 investment in exchange for 20% equity in our fast growing vegan
18:20food brand.
18:20We would love to reinvent the way people get their essential vitamin B12 using our delicious plant based nutritional yeast
18:29seasonings.
18:30Our range includes three flavours, cheesy, smoky bacon, and grilled chicken.
18:36They're all packed with protein, B vitamins, vitamin B12, and they're all plant based.
18:42Our Nooch is naturally flavoured and, sorry, Nooch, nutritional yeast, Nooch for short.
18:49It's naturally flavoured and designed to be used by the handful.
18:51So you can throw it on beans, soups, salads, pasta.
18:54It makes a great cheese pasta sauce.
18:56We flavour our nutritional yeast with yeast extract and a teaspoon will give you 94% of your daily recommended
19:04intake of vitamin B12 and over two grams of complete protein.
19:08Within just four years, we've managed to get stocked in over 600 stores nationwide, including major retailers such as Holland
19:15and Barrett and Whole Foods.
19:16There's hundreds of independent whole food stores via our ten trade distributors.
19:21The market opportunity for Notorious Nooch is huge.
19:24From vegans and vegetarians looking for B12 to flexitarians and meat eaters looking for more plant based nutrition in their
19:30diet.
19:31Thank you so much for your time today. We're going to give you guys some samples.
19:35Lovely.
19:36A plant based nutritional yeast seasoning rich in vitamin B12 and protein is the offering from Steve Wildish and Sam
19:45Fresco.
19:47Shall I take one of them?
19:48Yes, yeah, just take one. It's got the cheesy seasoning on you.
19:51They're seeking £100,000 in exchange for 20% of their company.
19:56Now what's on this?
19:57That's still got the cheesy seasoning on you. Thank you.
19:59The samples have garnered a healthy response from guest dragon Joe Wicks.
20:04I like the taste of it. It's really nice.
20:07But can the pair persuade the dragons to nourish their company's coffers with cash?
20:15Well, Sam and Steve, thank you for that lovely presentation.
20:19It's funny because I keep seeing this stuff pop up on Instagram.
20:22People making cheesy sauces and like, you know, pastas with this.
20:25What I always think it looks like fish food that you spring into the top of the tank.
20:29I don't know what it is.
20:30What is nutritional yeast and where do you get it?
20:34Yeah, so it's yeast essentially.
20:36So there's a factory in Paris where we source our yeast.
20:41I think it's baker's yeast.
20:43And it's grown in a tank of molasses and then they dry it out
20:47and they then take the yeast flakes and they toast them to different temperatures,
20:52which provides different flavourings.
20:55Incredible.
20:55So if you want to tell me a little bit about your life,
20:57how long have you been running for and what your numbers have been?
20:59We're running for four years, our year in September.
21:02So year one, we did 18K.
21:04In year two, we did 39K.
21:06And in year three, we did 77K.
21:08So strong 90% growth year on year.
21:11Yeah, so 135K as of last September.
21:15That's brilliant.
21:15And so how big is the opportunity in the UK?
21:18I mean, it feels like a niche kind of, is it a vegan product?
21:22Or can anyone use this?
21:22And will you start to see this being used in all kinds of recipes?
21:26Anyone can use it.
21:27But vegans typically use it to have a B12 supplement.
21:30So it's very popular in the vegan community and vegans are our primary consumer.
21:35I love the branding.
21:36Tell me a little bit about how you got to this.
21:38So you've got a design background or did you get an agency to it?
21:42Yes.
21:42So we are also the agency too.
21:44So we designed it ourselves.
21:46It's amazing.
21:47It's quite fun.
21:47Yeah, it's a fun packaging.
21:48Pretty cool.
21:49You've got a design agency.
21:50How big is the design agency?
21:52It's about 15 people now.
21:54Okay.
21:54You've been running that together for a long time?
21:56About five years.
21:57Yeah, about five.
21:57Five years.
21:57So what size is that business in terms of revenue?
22:01About 1.5.
22:021.5 billion.
22:04Okay.
22:04It's quite typical of agency owners.
22:06Yeah.
22:06To launch a product after getting sick and tired of working with other people's brands.
22:10But what's your gross margin in that first year when you did 18k?
22:14First year was minus seven gross profit loss.
22:17Second year lost 7k.
22:19And third year lost 100 quid.
22:21Minus seven year one minus...
22:23And what's your net?
22:24Net minus 47 year one.
22:26Minus 83 year two.
22:28Minus 70 year three.
22:30If I was a client of yours, and I came to you with this, and I said in three years'
22:35time
22:36with all your skills as a design and marketing agency, how much money are we going to be
22:40making?
22:40You wouldn't say to me we could be losing 70k and making 70k revenue.
22:44Correct, yeah.
22:44So something I don't understand what's going on, because you have the skill sets.
22:47You've just revealed to me that you have marketing skills, branding skills.
22:50This is a side project.
22:51You're making 1 point something million doing something else.
22:54So I don't blame you for not being focused, because I wouldn't be if I was making 1 point
22:57something million somewhere else.
22:58Sure.
22:58So are we investing in your hobby?
23:01No, no, we're very focused on this.
23:03And essentially trying to create something new and trying to bring a new brand to market.
23:06So we're not making this on our kitchen table kind of thing.
23:08We've partnered with some of the biggest players in the space.
23:10The idea is we're basically focusing on building that distribution network.
23:14Obviously the brand distribution are kind of key to this being something we can grow
23:17over the next three to five years and build a business of real value.
23:23Sam, Steve.
23:25Is this a new category?
23:27Is this out there already, this type of product?
23:30Yeah.
23:30The existing main competitor has been around on the market for about 30 years.
23:34It's in basically every single major supermarket.
23:37Okay, so people know what Looch is.
23:38That is terrible branding.
23:43It's like Kentucky Fried Chicken gone wrong.
23:47I don't even get your, I love the name Notorious Nooch.
23:51But that should be, there should be something about that.
23:55Can you do me a favour?
23:57Will you take this?
23:59Yeah.
24:00What I want you to do is just think about it for 10 seconds.
24:04And I want one of you to give me a 30 second advert.
24:09Oh, that's brutal.
24:15So you're now, this is, this is now you, it's an advert for this business.
24:22Give me the 30 second elevator advert.
24:24Okay, that's going to go out to consumers.
24:31Okay.
24:32This is our flavoured nutritional yeast.
24:34This is the grilled chicken seasoning.
24:36You can sprinkle it on anything.
24:37There's no recipe required.
24:39And it's the only niche you need in your diet.
24:44Okay, what have we missed here by doing that?
24:48There's two things.
24:49One, I'm a consumer.
24:51I've got no call to action.
24:53The second thing is I haven't, I haven't received your why.
24:57And I think that's what this lacks.
24:59This lacks a little bit of your why.
25:02I'll take that back.
25:03I'll answer the question in a second.
25:04But what I want you to share with me is what is your why for this product?
25:08Why do I care and why should I buy it?
25:12You might not buy it, but those on a vegan diet probably would,
25:15because they need B12 on a diet.
25:18So isn't now this starting to get your why?
25:21You go out there with why this is important.
25:24Yeah.
25:24You have to have this in your diet because.
25:27Exactly.
25:27Yeah.
25:27This is the best seasoning product in the market because.
25:30And if you buy this, this is what will happen.
25:34I don't know.
25:35But do you...
25:35Yeah.
25:36I'm not getting the why.
25:37Well, that was really important for me because not being vegan,
25:40I don't really understand it, but I understand how to sell.
25:46Have we got any vegans here?
25:48Might have.
25:50So they're absolutely right.
25:52I always have a ton of nutritional yeast.
25:54I actually do quite enjoy it.
25:56But what do we worry about?
25:57We worry about B12 and protein.
26:00And this does both of those things.
26:03I also kind of agree with Joe and Peter.
26:08Mm-hmm.
26:08I think this is good branding.
26:10And I think it's terrible branding.
26:14And I think it's good branding because that to me looks like a set of goods.
26:18Mm-hmm.
26:18If you had those on the shelf, I would know they belong to the same family.
26:23And I would get to know what that family was.
26:27But they undersell your name and your name tells everybody exactly what it is.
26:33So what's the thinking behind that?
26:35Why have you hidden your name?
26:36So we initially had the name Cheesy Nooch or Nutritional Yeast Flakes right at the top.
26:42But we found like from some kind of market research and feedback that people were slightly confused with what to
26:49do with it.
26:50So we added in the word seasoning.
26:52So it's cheesy seasoning, which kind of opens it up into its actual use.
26:56Okay.
26:56So that starts to...
26:57Yeah.
26:57That actually does start to make sense.
27:00Yeah.
27:01Looking at that, I know where.
27:05How do I know that's plant-based?
27:07Your biggest selling point, I know how you know, because down there is the tiniest...
27:14See that?
27:15Yeah, I would have missed it.
27:17Illegible little badge that says it's plant-based.
27:20I would go straight past that.
27:21I think, oh, that's smoky bacon seasoning.
27:23That's not going to be plant-based, is it?
27:25So I completely see why you're not growing.
27:28I think that's confusing.
27:30I think it's really, really confusing.
27:31And I'm your customer.
27:33Absolutely your customer.
27:37Is it not the case that you're kind of caught between two positions?
27:40You talk about branding and positioning.
27:42But maybe one position, the left pole of the positioning is nooch, which is for vegans.
27:47And then the right pole of positioning is healthy seasoning.
27:52And that's for everybody.
27:54And so you're in this weird spot in the middle where, you know,
27:56I tasted it and thought, this is really lovely.
27:58I looked at the back.
27:59I thought, oh, my God, look at that nutritional profile.
28:01The amount of protein in this.
28:03And it tastes that good.
28:04I was like, oh, my God, you should have just come in and said, this is healthy seasoning.
28:08You know, but you said nooch.
28:09So my brain positioned you over it as this vegan nooch product that I've never heard of before.
28:13But you're given Gen Zeni or packaging.
28:16And so I'm a bit confused.
28:18And I think sometimes when your positioning isn't super clear,
28:22and when you do take the risky approach of trying to create basically a new position,
28:26the education that has to come with it is difficult.
28:30I don't need to be a vegan or a nootcher to want to put this on my food.
28:35But again, I didn't know it was for me.
28:37Because you walked in and it says vegan there, you said vegan, nootch, nootch, nootch.
28:40No idea what that is.
28:41So I would never pick that off a shelf.
28:44So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you the very best.
28:46Cool, thank you.
28:51Firstly, this whole category is, like, food and beverage is really challenging.
28:55It's so competitive.
28:56So I really love that you've tried to take something that's a pretty boring-looking ingredient on a shelf.
29:01And you've made it cool.
29:02And I think it's quite fun.
29:03It's quite Gen Z, isn't it?
29:04Like, the design, and I suppose, you know, veganism is on the rise.
29:08But I still do feel like it's quite niche.
29:10So I find this really hard.
29:13This is the hardest.
29:14I'm finding this one quite hard because I really love what you've done.
29:17And actually, emotionally, I'd love to invest in you because I think you're doing something different.
29:22But I think practically, I'm just thinking it does feel so niche.
29:26And the kind of volume you've got to do for it to be successful, like, you know, hundreds of thousands
29:30of units to really make it a success.
29:32And I'm kind of worried that you're going to just put so much into it.
29:35And I'd hate to see, you know, you put more and more into it and it not succeed.
29:39And therefore, I know that I would emotionally just want to keep pumping money into it myself because I'm quite
29:44sensitive in that sense.
29:45So I think I'd end up giving you a lot more than the 100k you want to get it where
29:49you need it to be.
29:49So I want to wish you the best of luck, but just let you know that I'm out on this
29:52one.
29:54Good luck, guys.
29:57Sam and Steve.
29:59Do you know what?
30:00I'm not sure it's a reflection of you as people.
30:03You've got an agency background.
30:05I think you've basically created a product in your spare time throughout your agency and you've taken it to market.
30:12You've done probably one thing that many, many people will never do.
30:17I don't think you probably need to spend a lot more money now because you're there.
30:22It's a market-ready product.
30:24You've taken great feedback today, clearly, on the branding.
30:27You know what you need to change.
30:29You know the messages that you need to be clearly selling this product.
30:33I think, hopefully, that's the thing that you're going to walk away with today.
30:36And you're an agency that can create your own advert for this business, I'm sure.
30:42So for that reason, I'm out.
30:44But thanks for bringing it to my attention today.
30:49I'll tell you where I am.
30:51Most entrepreneurs that come in the den are not in a position that you're in.
30:56With a fallback.
30:59They come in here and it's their dream.
31:02They're passionate about it.
31:04And that is it.
31:06It's even make or break in a lot of cases.
31:09You know?
31:12And, first of all, I don't see that in you guys.
31:14You have something to fall back on.
31:16You're lucky.
31:17So my advice is very simple.
31:20Don't give up your day job.
31:22Stick to your day job because you might need that in the future.
31:25But this is not investable.
31:27For that reason, I'm out.
31:32Sam and Steve.
31:34Tuka touched on something there, actually, which really hit a chord for me.
31:38It's passion.
31:40I always say when I sit in this chair, I don't invest in the business.
31:44I invest in the entrepreneur.
31:46You haven't instilled in me that you've got the passion, the drive, and the excitement for this business or this
31:51product.
31:52And I think the product's great.
31:54So, actually, the product's won me over.
31:57It's you guys that haven't won me over.
31:59And that's a real shame.
32:02So I'm sorry.
32:03It's not an investment for me today.
32:04I'm out.
32:11I would definitely be a customer for this.
32:15However, I think this is muddled.
32:17I think you've lost your way a little bit on this.
32:19And I think what's happened is that it's gone onto the shelves.
32:22It hasn't sold through as well as you've expected it to sell through.
32:25You've tried to find out why that is.
32:27You've kept changing things.
32:29It's kind of ended up in a place that's lost its reason to be.
32:32So I think you do need to sharpen.
32:34You've got to decide what you're trying to say on that front.
32:38If it is for vegan, shout that it's vegan.
32:40If it's for nutrition, shout that it's nutrition.
32:44But they are lovely.
32:45I cannot criticise the taste.
32:46They're very nice.
32:47They deliver exactly what a vegan wants delivered.
32:50But I'm afraid I won't be investing.
32:52I'm out.
32:56Thanks, guys.
32:57Good luck.
32:58Good luck.
32:58Good luck.
33:00That's it for Sam and Steve.
33:03Who's product failed to whet the dragon's appetite to invest.
33:07But the entrepreneurs leave the den with plenty of food for thought.
33:12Yeah, I think we've got a bit to think about around positioning, messaging, how we communicate it.
33:17And if, yeah, if it's not landing with them, then clearly some bits need to be tweaked.
33:34Next to face the dragons were Andrew Telfer and Jill Erskine.
33:39The husband and wife team were seeking £40,000 in return for a 10% share in their business, wildstrong.
33:48What do you reckon?
33:50Parkour in the park.
33:52Do you know what parkour is?
33:54No.
33:54It's when they're like...
33:56Parkour!
33:57Parkour!
33:59Parkour!
34:01Are you all right?
34:06Outdoor movement and strength classes, intended to improve joint health, flexibility and endurance,
34:13were the actual offering.
34:16And the dragons were keen to put a typical exercise to the test.
34:21So, Debra, if you could just stand over here.
34:23I want you to imagine you're a cat burglar.
34:24And these right here, believe it or not, are lasers.
34:26And what I want you to do is I want you to get from point A to point B.
34:29Okay.
34:30Okay.
34:30And he is going to help you.
34:32I'll get out of your way if you want to stand there.
34:34I'll go nice and easy to begin with.
34:35Okay.
34:41Come on, come on, come on.
34:42Speed up.
34:43Yeah, don't be too kind.
34:44Don't be too kind.
34:44Yeah, get her low a little bit.
34:47Great.
34:47And she's made it over to their side.
34:49I'll take those.
34:50Debra Meaden may have been light on her feet.
34:53Watch her.
34:53She'll be bugling her out.
34:55But Tuukka Suleiman was more interested in maths than mobility.
35:01Jill and Andrew, let's get some idea of numbers.
35:06So, the year ending 2023, we had a turnover of 21,700 and a loss of 7,200 pounds.
35:19And then the year ending 2024, we had a turnover of 24,000 and a loss of 6,000.
35:28About 6,000.
35:30This year, we're on track to have a revenue of, I think, 54,000.
35:35And we'll have a net profit this year of about 4,500.
35:39How are you living?
35:40We're working on this on the side.
35:42So, you want us to invest in a business where you're not full-time.
35:47Yeah.
35:47You've got a very small turnover.
35:50How do I get my money back?
35:52So, if we can scale up our team so that we can offer more courses, projected revenue would be $262
36:00,000.
36:00$262,000, that's right.
36:02The part-time entrepreneur's modest turnover rang alarm bells with Peter Jones.
36:08This is no more than a bit of a side play, sort of get outside, have a bit of fun
36:12and come and join my club.
36:15That doesn't make this a business at the moment.
36:18If I may, we've identified a gap in the market.
36:20Within that, currently, we are oversubscribed.
36:24But you might have identified a gap in the market, but at the moment, there's no market in that gap.
36:29Sorry, I disagree.
36:30We've sort of consciously tried not to scale up too quickly because we really wanted to make sure we were
36:35ready before we got investment.
36:39The couple believed their business was in good shape to clinch a deal.
36:43Would fitness guru Joe Wicks agree?
36:47I started my career running a boot camp in Old Deer Park in Richmond, so I love this concept.
36:53And you can see, look at her hanging from the tree, she loves it, doesn't she?
36:56But it's not really a business that I can put $40,000 into because you're going to iron it out
37:00real quick.
37:01And you're going to say, Joe, I need another $40,000.
37:03And so, I hate saying no, but I don't think I can invest in this one.
37:08So, good luck, but I'm out.
37:13Sadly for Andrew and Jill, none of the dragons felt moved to invest.
37:18But it wasn't just the entrepreneurs who were left feeling the strain.
37:23It's tough being a dragon, Joe, isn't it?
37:25It is tough, yeah, because you want to give everyone a chance, don't you?
37:36This is it.
37:38Hi, my name's Amelia.
37:40And I'm Lydia, and we're sisters and co-founders from London.
37:43How are you feeling?
37:45A bit nervous.
37:46We got this.
37:46This year has been such a whirlwind.
37:49We left our jobs and we essentially launched a business, which is kind of daunting.
37:54Here we go.
37:56Here we go.
37:58We're first-time founders, and although it's been a massive learning curve, with the help
38:03of one of the dragons, we know that we can make it really far, really quickly.
38:08This business is so close to our hearts, and we're so, so passionate about this area.
38:13You can't shut us up.
38:21Hello, dragons.
38:23My name is Lydia.
38:25And I'm Amelia.
38:25And we are the founders of Ivy, and we're here today to ask for £75,000 in return for a
38:333% equity stake in our company.
38:35So to start with, I'm going to tell you about Carol, who for 12 years worked her way up the
38:42career ladder to a senior leadership position before she decided to take a career break to have three daughters.
38:50When she felt eager to return to work, she hit a wall.
38:54The application process was a minefield.
38:57As a result, she ended up taking a massive salary cut for a role far below her qualifications, and her
39:06potential was wasted.
39:08Two of Carol's daughters are standing here before you.
39:12Witnessing our mum's struggle firsthand inspired us to build Ivy, a community-driven marketplace that connects women returning to work
39:20with companies eager to access this untapped talent.
39:23Because this isn't just our mum's story.
39:26It's the story of millions and millions of women.
39:29In the UK alone, seven out of every ten women will struggle to return to work.
39:35The majority taking lower-paying roles into fields that stunt their career trajectory.
39:41First and foremost, Ivy is a community where women can openly discuss their return-to-work challenges.
39:47Through Ivy, you can build confidence through accessing career guides, templates, and resources to put you in a position where
39:56you feel confident to not only apply for, but to land roles.
40:00So, just like Carol, you can create a profile on the Ivy platform and start browsing for roles based on
40:07the flexibility that you need.
40:09Every company has a returner rating, which spotlights the key important policies that are often quite difficult to find.
40:17We use behavioural nudge theory to actually encourage you to apply where you otherwise might not have had the confidence
40:23to do so.
40:24For example, highlighting if you're a top match.
40:26And if you still have questions, we have our AI career guide, which is here to help, providing specific content
40:32that is tailored to your career break length, your industry, and your skill set.
40:38At Ivy, we envision a world where a career break is just a break, not a reset.
40:43Now, it's too late for our mum, but we are here to fix it for the next generation and make
40:48returning to work, work.
40:53An online platform to help people back into the workplace after a pause in their career is the brainchild of
41:00sisters Amelia and Lydia Miller.
41:03They're seeking £75,000 in return for a 3% share of their business.
41:10First to find out more is Stephen Bartley.
41:17Lydia in the media, that was such a fantastic pitch.
41:20Thanks.
41:21I really want to understand the business and what the actual product is here because I work with LinkedIn Recruiter.
41:27I've spent some of my life building social networks, so I understand the complexities of network effects and user acquisition
41:32and all the troubles that you'll be facing.
41:33So is this a recruitment platform for women at that stage of their life where they're returning to work?
41:40Is that really what it is?
41:41Yeah, so women that are returning to work, so this is not from maternity leave, but they're out of the
41:47workforce, they do not have a job, and they're looking to return back into work.
41:50This usually happens when their first child goes to nursery, when they have that time again.
41:54At this point, they're in the job market, and there are key problems that keep coming up every time.
41:59The biggest one is confidence, and so that's why we're not just a jobs board.
42:04We offer community, we offer upskilling, we help them understand what they've missed on, let's say they've been out for
42:10three years.
42:10Yeah.
42:12What's AI?
42:13If you've been out for three years, you wouldn't know that.
42:15You know, it's so interesting.
42:16So the product itself, though, so...
42:18Yeah, so the journey as a returner is you sign up, you can access the community, you can then use
42:23our jobs platform to browse the roles that are live.
42:26The only roles that go on there are from pre-vetted companies that will be paying us a subscription to
42:32post their roles and to hire from this talent pool.
42:35Okay.
42:38Amelia, Lydia, hi.
42:40Oh.
42:40Hello.
42:42Music to my ears.
42:43Honestly, I talk to so many brilliant women who somehow, when they're returning to work, have lost all the confidence
42:50they've built up through their career,
42:52and somehow believe that they have lost their value.
42:55You know, so honestly, absolutely music to my ears.
42:58The question is, is this going to help them?
43:01Now, this is currently in use, you say?
43:04Yes.
43:04Okay, so we're out of testing phase?
43:06We're still in the testing phase, I'd say.
43:08We launched, we started trading one month ago.
43:11Oh, okay.
43:12And so who's on there?
43:13Who's using it at the moment?
43:15So in terms of the paying company clients that we have, we've gone for four very different clients.
43:20The reason being, we want to test it on different sized companies and in different industries.
43:25On the returner side, our marketing channel has been directed at women who are returning to marketing, finance, sales, customer
43:35service, and consultancy.
43:40Girls, you've absolutely smashed this pitch.
43:42I love your energy.
43:43I can tell your sisters, I can just bounce off each other, I can just see how much this means
43:47to you.
43:47What a great idea.
43:48So I want to ask the question, you know, what do you do for a living?
43:51Have you both got jobs?
43:52Yeah, so we actually left our jobs four months ago, which has been quite scary.
43:56I love that.
43:57I love quitters, you know, because quitting's hard, right?
43:59Yeah, I completely agree.
44:00Yeah, quitting's awesome.
44:01Look at you.
44:01So go on, you quit your job.
44:02So what were you doing for work before?
44:04So I am a published psychologist by trade through the University of Cambridge.
44:09After I left Cambridge, I did a massive 180 and went into banking.
44:12I then did another 180 and joined a health startup, doing a little bit of everything as a team member.
44:17And that hopefully has put me in a really good position to then jump and become a founder.
44:22And what about yourself?
44:23Yeah, so I was with Deloitte Ventures Corporate Venture Capital Fund, where we invested in a load of startups, which
44:29was really fun.
44:29Absolutely loved it.
44:30You were a mini dragon, aren't you?
44:31Yeah, one day.
44:32Oh, no, I can't beat him.
44:34Can you give him, stump him, come on?
44:35I'm going to try, so...
44:36Please don't, no.
44:37Hold my drink, hold my drink.
44:38Nice, come on.
44:39Hold my beer.
44:40So it's so wonderful because you're so wonderful.
44:42And it's so easy to be positive and optimistic when we're talking about plans and dreams.
44:47But the reality of scaling a social network is like chewing glass.
44:52It really is.
44:53Because everybody wants to acquire customers, the same customers you want for their social network, their recruitment site, whatever.
44:59Because I know LinkedIn recruitment.
45:01They've been pretty deep conversations with me about supporting them on a number of things.
45:05And I've also spent a long time scaling social networks, and I've chewed the glass, and I've gone through the
45:10pain.
45:10What are you going to do to beat out all of these other recruitment sites, communities, social networks that are
45:15trying to steal that customer?
45:17Yeah, it's a really good question.
45:18And to answer that, I'd say, you know, you found it so difficult.
45:20You did it, you know, and you did it well.
45:22Yeah, I had to chew glass for 12 years since I was 18 in San Francisco.
45:25Yeah, we can chew glass.
45:26Yeah, but...
45:27I didn't burn cash.
45:28My software company in San Francisco has raised $31 million now.
45:32And it's probably, you know, burned $15 million of that just on the customer acquisition point.
45:37Yeah, yeah, 100%.
45:38I totally agree with everything you've raised to that point.
45:42Providing genuine value through not only our community, but the jobs and the caliber of companies we have on the
45:47platform will lead to organic, waterfall, word of mouth referrals.
45:51Word of mouth referrals is zero cost.
45:54We're not funneling loads of spend into performance marketing, which a lot of startups at an early stage fall into
45:59the trap of doing.
46:00We know that.
46:01We don't want to do that.
46:02And my last question is, are we part of a broader capital raise or is this...
46:05We closed off the round in March.
46:07What was the valuation?
46:08That was $2 million.
46:09$2 million.
46:10And you're going to need to raise a lot more capital.
46:12Yeah, we're going out to raise again next year.
46:14How much?
46:15Between $1.5 and $2 million.
46:18Hmm.
46:20I think you might need to raise a little bit more.
46:24And that's quite important to know now when you're asking for what you're asking for for just 3%.
46:29Because whatever's going to happen, we've got to clearly either double down and follow on at a higher,
46:35much higher valuations or be diluted to a very small amount.
46:39Yeah.
46:43Lydia and Amelia, you two are brilliant.
46:47But I'm sitting on the fence and saying, what is the potential of this?
46:53Give me the figures for the next two years of what you believe you're genuinely going to generate.
47:00Or are you here just a bit early?
47:03So, we'll be operating at a loss this year.
47:05So, it will be...
47:06So, it will be an £82,000, roughly, £1,000 loss this year.
47:1082?
47:1082.
47:11So, year two?
47:12Still a loss.
47:13Our aim is to hit profitability in between four and five years' time.
47:18How long?
47:19Four and five years' time.
47:21God.
47:21So, in three years' time, we'll be at a £12 million annual recurring revenue.
47:28And in five years' time, where we scaled globally, we'll be at a £367 million annual net revenue business.
47:38Well, I'm going to tell you where I am.
47:41I do believe in you.
47:46Unfortunately, I don't believe in your journey.
47:48It's too long.
47:50I think you'll get there eventually, with determination, but you're going to need a lot of money.
47:55And I can't see myself putting more money in and more money in, because I think the return at the
48:00end will be very minute.
48:02So, I'm going to say to you, I'm not going to join you on this journey.
48:05I'm out.
48:06Thank you very much.
48:11Lydia, Amelia, I'll tell you where I am.
48:13I think that the issue is scale over valuation.
48:17And investing at even 5% at a £1.5 million valuation with what you need, I believe that you're
48:24going to need the best part of £5 to £10 million to get this to a decent place.
48:31Which means a lot more money going in after me investing, if I was to make you an offer today.
48:37So, I'm sorry.
48:39I'm going to say that I'm out.
48:43Lydia and Amelia.
48:46Valuation is hard.
48:47It's really hard.
48:47And this is the thing that's holding me back, because I like to be really excited.
48:52You know, and I like it.
48:53I like a business to be the thing I'm thinking about in the shower, on the dog walk, you know,
48:58because I think that that's how you show up best as an investor.
49:01You really start to get obsessed with it.
49:04Bartlett, come on, give him a chance.
49:05Don't talk yourself out of it.
49:07Stick with that train of thought.
49:08Give him a chance too.
49:08You're the king of community.
49:10I'm going to follow you.
49:10You're going to follow me.
49:11I just think you'd be a great dragon for this.
49:14I really do.
49:15I think you'd be a great dragon for this.
49:15Thanks for backing us up.
49:16Yeah, I'm with you.
49:17You're the king of community.
49:18Sorry, no, finish.
49:18I wasn't trying to interrupt.
49:19I was just saying, I think they're great.
49:20And I think, you're going to try and talk yourself out of it, I think.
49:24I'm fighting for you, I'm rooting for you.
49:30Where's my bloody notes?
49:33It's the valuation.
49:34It's annoying me.
49:35Yeah, what's holding back?
49:36Purely valuation.
49:44Girls, look, I'm going to get the ball rolling, okay?
49:46I'm a gambling man and I want to take a punt on you.
49:49And look, I know you might not want my money because I'm just a fitness guy, but I know
49:53about digital acquisition.
49:54I've got a great team who could definitely help.
49:56So, you've asked for £75,000 for 3%.
49:59I'd like to offer you the cash, £75,000 for 5% of the business.
50:04And yeah, I'll leave you with that.
50:06And obviously, let's see what the dragons say.
50:07But hopefully, they might jump on now and see how much of a great investment this could be.
50:12Thank you so much for the effort.
50:15Lydia and Amelia, I'm sure you are not remotely surprised to hear that I absolutely love this.
50:21And this is something very close to my heart.
50:23And the work that I do in this area, I don't know if you know, but I'm an ambassador of
50:28SmartWorks.
50:29Our purpose is to get women back into work.
50:31And also, I do a lot of speaking and consulting with bigger businesses who are working hard
50:38on solving this problem in their company.
50:42Now, I don't have experience in building social networks.
50:46A lot of what you said today felt like Swahili to me.
50:48It really did.
50:50However, I can tell you now, there is no better person sitting in this den who knows this problem
50:54first hand, who is really an advocate and a voice out there for this.
50:59So, I am prepared to make you an offer.
51:02However, I won't offer you all of the money.
51:05I am prepared to offer you £25,000.
51:09But for my £25,000, I would want 2% of the business, which means you'll still need to
51:15get the remaining £50,000 from one or more dragons.
51:19Thank you very much.
51:20Interesting.
51:21Very interesting.
51:24So, Lydia, Amelia, I disagree with Sarah.
51:28I think I equally have, and have long-term, had a voice.
51:33I mean, whenever I talk to any organisation, particularly the women, you know, I talk to
51:39them all the time about how difficult it is for them to get back into the war, has been,
51:44how difficult it is once they get there.
51:47So, I know I've got a big audience in this.
51:51And I would love to be part of this.
51:53So, I'm going to make you an offer and I'm going to offer you all of the money.
51:57And I, too, want 5% of the business.
52:01Thank you very much for your offer.
52:06It's just me, isn't it?
52:07Bloody hell.
52:08I wasn't done thinking.
52:12Yeah, I think it's great.
52:14I think you're great.
52:16Okay.
52:17I really like what you're doing.
52:18And I like it for so many reasons.
52:20In terms of where I find myself in my career, where I'm a part owner in a recruitment business
52:26and my background in technology.
52:28I first started working in San Francisco when I was 18.
52:31I've chewed all the glass.
52:33And I've chewed the glass so that you guys don't have to.
52:36So, when I look at a business like this, the thing that I can add is I know the set
52:40of
52:40key problems that you're going to face.
52:42So, I think I'm the perfect investor for you.
52:46So, I am going to make you an offer.
52:49I'm going to make you an offer for the money you've asked for, for 7.5%.
52:57Well, thank you very much.
52:58Four dragons.
53:00Do you want to go to the wall?
53:00We're going to have a chat.
53:01We'll go to the wall.
53:02Good luck.
53:02Take your time.
53:03No rush.
53:05Lydia and Amelia have received four rival bids.
53:11And that was so dense.
53:12So dense.
53:14Sarah Davies has offered a third of the money for 2%, but that relies on teaming up with
53:20other dragons.
53:21So, we're happy to give away 6% of the company.
53:24That's the limit I said we'd go to.
53:26Offering the full £75,000, Joe Wicks and Deborah Meaden both want a 5% stake for themselves.
53:34Big negotiation.
53:36We could say could we have you both half the money each?
53:386%.
53:39It's risky.
53:41That's halving our valuation.
53:42That's halving our valuation.
53:44Yeah.
53:45While Stephen Bartlett wants a higher share of 7.5%, citing his experience in recruitment
53:52and tech as his key selling points.
53:557.5% is really steep.
53:567.5% is really steep.
53:58Okay, let's do it.
54:06We're back.
54:07That took a while.
54:08That's alright.
54:10First of all, thank you for your offers.
54:13We will say that we did come in here with two dragons in mind.
54:18And those dragons are Deborah and Stephen.
54:23And so, what we'd like to propose is potentially a joint investment from you both.
54:30We were thinking the way it would work would be half of the money each for 6%.
54:36And Stephen, I know this is slightly less than you originally asked.
54:40We think this would be an amazing partnership.
54:44I'm happy.
54:53What were you expecting, though?
54:55I mean, that's kind of the only thing they could do.
54:59How do I get to the levels that I want to get to?
55:03Because that would leave me effectively with 3%.
55:05So typically, the minimum I would do it would be about 5% for a company at this level.
55:11I really think I can change this business.
55:13But I also think I could offer you a floor in my office, which is an isolated penthouse
55:17floor in my central HQ in London, surrounded by exceptional people who have done what you're
55:22trying to do.
55:23And I'll include that in the deal.
55:24So I'm going to stick to my original offer.
55:26I like my original offer.
55:28So my offer is $75,000 for 7.5% of the business.
55:34You know, really, I would love the expertise of Deborah as well as part of this deal.
55:40And I think that's what's, for me, hesitating.
55:42Yeah, I was going to say, Stephen, is there a way we could encompass everything you've just
55:48said?
55:48Yeah.
55:49Essentially scale it all back from that 7.5% to a 5% investment today.
55:55So essentially taking the $75,000 down.
55:59I would do that at $50,000 investment today.
56:01At $50,000 investment today.
56:03But then with the, I'll give you the floor in the office.
56:06And could we have that floor for two years?
56:12I'd like you to be in there.
56:15Okay, here's what I'll do.
56:17I'll do the $50,000 for 5% and I'll give you four desks for 12 months.
56:25Okay, so I'm offering you $37,500 for the 3%.
56:29Yes.
56:30Okay, and then the additional bit is the office space, sir, Steve.
56:34I'm very happy with that.
56:35Perfect.
56:36Perfect.
56:37You've got a deal?
56:37Make a deal.
56:38Excellent.
56:39Well done.
56:40Thank you so much.
56:43Success for the sisters.
56:44Yeah, well done.
56:45As they win the backing of two dragons.
56:48Well done, guys.
56:49Thank you so much.
56:50Thank you so much for listening to us.
56:52Congratulations.
56:54With their expertise and profile behind this business, the sky's the limit.
57:04My brain.
57:06And this pair are already scaling new heights.
57:09Did we just get the penthouse in Stephen Bartlett's London office?
57:12Yeah, I'm kind of in shock at that.
57:15Well, Stephen and Debra, well done.
57:18Founders like that, you just have to invest in.
57:22Grab them.
57:23Grab them.
57:23You have to invest in.
57:25Stephen, they're a force.
57:26They're a force.
57:27I'm happy with that.
57:28I'm happy with that.
57:28We've got our two favourite dragons.
57:30We've got our two favourite dragons.
57:31We're epic.
57:31What are we going to do to celebrate?
57:33I don't know.
57:34Just try and digest everything and then call our mum, tell her the good news as well.
57:39That's probably the first thing we need to do.
57:40Yeah, we need to do that now.
57:42So happy.
57:43Yeah, on cloud nine.
57:44That was amazing.
57:56Next time, the return of a special guest.
57:59Look who's back, missus.
58:01Nice to see you again.
58:03What did you think?
58:04Be honest.
58:05It gets worse before it gets better.
58:07I've heard that before.
58:08Isn't that the biggest investment ever on Dragon's Den?
58:11Woo-hoo!
58:11Woo-hoo!
58:41We'll see you next time.