- 7 weeks ago
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00:14Hello my name is Anshu and I'm from East London. I've created a business that's around
00:21sustainability and health and I'm a sort of newly fledged entrepreneur as well.
00:27When I started the business my kids were both under the age of five and it is a juggle but
00:34my eldest
00:35daughter said the loveliest thing and she was like one day I want to be the boss of the business
00:43and I hope she is one day I hope to make her proud.
00:55Hello dragons my name is Anshu and I'm the founder of Dabba Drop. Today I'm seeking
01:01£100,000 for 3% equity in the business. This is a Dabba, it means box in Hindi. These containers
01:10have
01:11kept the city of Mumbai my hometown fed for over a century as you can see they're plastic free and
01:17reusable and show that convenience can coexist with sustainability. Back in 2018 as a working mum I
01:24often ordered a takeaway as convenience and but I was left feeling disappointed by the low quality
01:30food and the plastic waste that came with it and inspired by the Dabba system of my hometown I
01:37decided to create Dabba Drop, a closed-loop subscription delivering wholesome ready-to-heat meals in the
01:43reusable tins. The tins go directly in the oven and in 30 minutes you have a zero prep dinner on
01:49your
01:50table and then you just swap out the empty tins for full ones on your next job and you get
01:57convenience
01:57and sustainability all in one. We currently deliver to London zones one to three and each Dabba Drop has
02:05four different dishes, has two servings, it costs £30 including delivery. So our vision for Dabba Drop is
02:14for it to be everywhere, first in the UK and then internationally. I hope you will join us on this
02:20journey and who wants to eat? A sustainable delivery service help yourself to a Dabba for oven ready meals
02:34in traditional Indian reusable tins is the offering from Anshu Ahuja. So they just unclasped from the
02:42side. That's clever. She's hoping for an investment of £100,000 in return for a three percent share
02:51of her company. That's our Punjabi menus. At the bottom you've got a chickpea curry and rice, then you've
02:59got a saab and you've got cauliflower and potato in the top tin. The food appears to have hit the
03:07spot
03:08but will the dragons find the business proposition just as tasty?
03:17Anshu. Yes. Can I just relate to you what I understand to be your model and you tell me if
03:22I've got that right. Yes. So as a customer I pay £30, I have a Dabba delivered with the beautiful
03:29food
03:30in and when you dropped off the Dabba I would return the old one. Yeah. So you sign up for
03:35a subscription
03:36and you say whether you want it weekly or fortnightly. And so do people generally have
03:43this as like a Friday or a Saturday night takeaway or you're finding a lot of your customer base are
03:47having this as one of their midweek meals? Friday is still our busiest day but Wednesday is fast
03:53growing which shows us that you know as a midweek option this could be yeah quite a good thing we
04:00currently deliver on Mondays. So £30 serves two people you buy it on subscription? Yes. Yeah. Can
04:06you give me an idea of the year-over-year sales and a view of profitability? Yeah. So in 2021
04:13we turned
04:14over £530,000 with a gross profit of £241,000 and a net profit of £75,000 and then in
04:272022 we turned
04:28over £630,000 with a gross profit of £245,000 and a net loss of £80,000. Yeah. So we
04:40turned over in 2023
04:42£530,000 with a gross profit of £340,000. Okay. Which brings us to 2024 we had a turnover of
04:56£875,000
04:58with a gross profit of £276,000 and losses of £76,000. So a loss of? £76,000. So we're
05:08now in a cash
05:09positive position for the last three months with between £7,000 to £4,000,000 net profit.
05:16Okay. I mean that's not amazing. What is holding this business back in terms of its growth in your
05:24view? Well we don't deliver London wide yet. We just delivered London zones one to three. Delivery
05:32costs are obviously sort of an expensive part of the business but at scale those you know we really
05:39see the effects of economies of scale and we can negotiate better rates with our delivery suppliers.
05:45So once we're delivering further to more postcodes with more menus we really believe this model could
05:50work. Thank you. Andrew I think your problem actually sits in your margin because you were
05:59making near around about 50% margin and then you had a catastrophic drop-off in 2023. Yeah. Can I
06:07ask
06:07you who are your delivery partners? So we have a hybrid model we have some of our own cyclists who
06:12deliver locally and then we work with Zedify and Xero. They're two cycle companies that deliver across
06:21London. So is there anything special about your delivery that says you couldn't roll it out of
06:26the big delivery you know? Well the tins obviously you know with the likes of Delivery or Just Eat you
06:31can't necessarily swap over the tins. Right okay so there is you've got an inbuilt issue around that. Yeah.
06:37Okay so my biggest I think and probably for me the crucial question is you had a collapse in margin
06:44in 2023 and you've only to date had a partial recovery. So you're still not back to your original
06:51margin level. Yeah. So can you explain to me is this the level at which margins are now going to
06:57stay
06:57or do you have a plan to increase your margins? Well absolutely we will be trying to improve our
07:03margins before we take our concept multi-city. So and so but I'm going to home in on that because
07:10this is really important this doesn't look good on your margins. I want to know why your margins
07:16improve going forward when the figures are telling me they actually took a downward turn and stayed there.
07:22Because we have much better control we have um we have a team in place that can deliver those
07:29margins and improve them. Also I'm much more. Is food cost coming down energy cost coming down what
07:35what is it? Yes so food costs are in a much better place so previously it was at 18 percent
07:40it's now
07:41between 13 to 15 percent. Because we're delivering further um and and there are more deliveries our
07:48delivery costs are between 14 to 15 percent so yes the costs are coming down. That's what I'm looking for.
07:53Yes okay. And so to come um hearing what I've heard your valuation is crazy three million pounds
08:04is that right? Yes. Or more than three? Well it's 3.3 million. 3.3 million oh oh and how
08:11do you underpin that?
08:13Well we have um we have we've obviously grown over the last year by 61 percent we have an 81
08:19percent repeat
08:20purchase rate and three times revenue we believe it is justified. Three times revenue but you haven't
08:28proven that you've made any money physically you have a short term for a couple of months but that
08:34could change. Could change but as the founder of the business I feel very confident that I can keep
08:39those margins but you know. Anzu you know what I think you've come in here today you know asking for
08:45a hundred thousand pounds for a business that well all we can look at is historic and historic doesn't
08:51look good unfortunately so I'm going to tell you that I'm out. Anzu, I think you've done really well to
09:01create a business I think you've done great to create a you know a a really intriguing brand but I
09:08wonder whether the very thing that you're the dabber itself is your is your is your issue um and whether
09:17you might have to pivot from a stainless steel type dabber to a product that is recyclable um
09:27in a similar vein to to a standard takeaway because then you're able to use Just Eat, Deliveroo and the
09:35people that could give you scale. But you wouldn't have the dabber? Well you would have a dabber but it
09:40would be a dabber that's you made of plastic made of would not made of plastic that you could recycle.
09:47How much do you know? For example at the moment I'm on a performance training regime at the moment and
09:52I have my food delivered and all of the products come in 100% recyclable packaging. And do you know
10:02if
10:02it gets recycled? Yeah 100% 100% 10% of recyclable plastics get recycled. One billion plastic food
10:11trays end up in landfill. Get him ladies. So yes you've gotten rid of it you put it in the
10:16bin you
10:16put it in the bag bin as far as you know. But what happens at the end of it? Mine
10:21goes into a recycling
10:22centre in Maidenhead and is recycled. You've been there yourself I believe. Everybody owns it. Have you
10:28been there? I haven't no because I don't live there but you know. Exactly well that's what happens.
10:33So that's a that's great that's the that's the concept that works. But I'm more intrigued about
10:37how this business scales and makes money. The big issue is the fact that you're running at even now
10:42a 30 32% gross margin. There's two things that are going to happen you're just going to have a
10:48slow death
10:49or you need to pivot this business model. So my suggestion there could be that the dabber itself could be
10:57your nemesis. But I think that there's a bit of a journey to go on here and you are asking
11:02for
11:02a lot of money so I'm sorry I'm going to say that I'm out. Thank you.
11:10Anshu if I were to ask all of your customers why they subscribe to Dabber Drop in a sentence what
11:16would they say? Um so they they they come to us because the tins the dabbers and then they stay
11:23because of the food. Okay yeah that's really that's really um at the heart of my concern I guess
11:29is that I look at the business and the only thing that I find to be unique is that it
11:34comes in a
11:34different tin. You know and that's really the heart of my concerns um because suggestions that have been
11:40made to drive margin improvement go straight for the tin. I think that actually just kills the business.
11:46you become everybody else. So I just feel like the business might need something more.
11:52So I'm going to say that I'm out. Thank you.
11:58Anshu um I think I'm going to struggle with the um level investment that you've asked and your valuation
12:09because Peter's bang on you just don't have enough margin in here to to to make any money.
12:16So it it's not an attractive investment for me so I'm afraid I won't be investing but I wish all
12:21the
12:21best but I'm out. Thank you. Anshu. Yes. So do you know what I think the problem is? I don't
12:29think they ate
12:30enough for the food. I know. I munched my way through almost that whole serving and it's absolutely
12:38gorgeous and I think you have the right things at the heart of your business. You told us when you
12:44came in this is about health convenience and sustainability. I honestly think you've got a
12:50fantastic business with the right things at the core with phenomenal food but the actual business
12:56is severely in distress and needs a lot of work. So I'm sorry but it's kind of made it impossible
13:02for me to invest today but I really hope you get it sorted because it is what you're doing is
13:07fantastic. So best of luck with all of it. Thank you. I'm so sorry I can't invest today. I'm out.
13:13Thanks. Good luck. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Take care.
13:21Disappointment for Anshu. While her meals were a hit,
13:24the Dragons found her struggling profits less palatable and she goes home empty-handed.
13:31I feel relieved it's over. Obviously very sad that the Dragons decided not to invest.
13:38I still very much believe in the dream that there could be a dabber job everywhere so
13:43I'm going to keep going and work out what's next for the business. I quite like the dabber though.
13:49Yeah, it's cool. Be nice at home. If I had that friends round, fill your boots. We know what to
13:53get
13:53Mr Jones for your next birthday. We do. Got it. Yeah.
14:10What's the matter? Yeah, I'm good. You're good. Yeah. Hi, I'm Max. I'm 11 years old and I am an
14:19inventor.
14:19I'm Matt, Max's dad and we're both from Derbyshire.
14:23Check your hairs all right?
14:26That's it. It's all right. Yeah.
14:28So, I mean, the business, it came from Max's idea, but yeah, I've dealt with any of things
14:31that he's too young to deal with. Like calculating the numbers, doing the orders,
14:37just all the boring stuff that I don't do.
14:41Fashion brand. You've got two code written all over this one.
14:45Fashion? Yeah. Let the judgment begin.
14:50Let's do it. Let's do it.
14:53I'll see you.
15:05Hi, Dragons. I'm Max. I'm 11 years old. I'm Neurodivergent and I'm the inventor of the fidget tea.
15:12Hi, Dragons. I'm Matt. I'm Max's dad. I'm also Neurodivergent and today we're asking for an
15:18investment of £50,000 for 10% equity. I've always struggled with the world around me,
15:24such as bright lights, loud noises or smelly people, which make me want to feel like I want
15:30to explode. Trying to keep the feeling in from this is a bit like being a bottle of pop.
15:35So bubbles start to build up and eventually they explode in a massive meltdown of emotions.
15:40But something that can help people to gently release the bubbles throughout the day are pop
15:44fidget toys. The little silicon fidget toys are a bit like infinite bubble wrap.
15:49One day I thought to myself, hmm, what if this pop was in my clothing? That way I could
15:54play with it no matter where I was. Max came and told us his idea and we thought it sounded
15:59amazing,
16:00but surely it must already exist. But we had a thorough search and we couldn't find anything.
16:05So we began the patent process straight away. We've now got a full UK patent granted and we believe
16:11it is the first clothing with pop fidget toys built into the clothing right here in the hem.
16:17We launched a Kickstarter just last year and we raised more than double our target.
16:21We got the first batch of stock in March and we sold out of the majority of the variations in
16:28two
16:28weeks and ended up turning over just under £19,000 in the two months. We've already had 500 of our
16:35second batch sold as pre-orders and most recently we've had contact with a major UK charity and we're
16:42now in discussion as to create a line with them, with Max's invention.
16:45Thank you dragons for your time and have a great rest of your day.
16:51A t-shirt with built-in pop fidget toys which aims to assist its neurodivergent wearers
16:58Here you go. Thank you.
17:00is the proposition from Matt Palfrey and his 11-year-old son Max.
17:06I have a sneaking suspicion that you might be sat up here in one of these chairs someday Max.
17:10That's the plan. Matt and Max are seeking £50,000 in return for a 10% share in their clothing
17:19business.
17:21Were you nervous about coming in the den to meet us?
17:23Yeah. See people think we're going to breathe fire but you know we only breathe fire when people
17:29don't know their numbers. Do you think your dad's going to be all right with his numbers?
17:33I don't know. It's been nice knowing you if not. Max thank you. Thanks Max.
17:39It's all down to your dad. See you in a bit. See you in a bit. Love you. Love you.
17:43His tender years have spared Max from a potential grilling. Open says me.
17:49But though his visit was brief, the young entrepreneur has made a big impression on Sarah Davies.
18:01Oh Matt you must be so proud of him. It's unbelievable. The idea was his. He's been in
18:06all the business meetings talking to like the people who helped sign the website. He's learning
18:10how to run a business and you know if I at 11 I don't think I could have you know
18:14done that so
18:15it's amazing. Clearly a very smart kid. He really is. So when did you kind of first have the idea?
18:20Yeah so he came up with the idea about two years ago. Started the patent process. It was quite a
18:26long
18:26process. We did get a grant from our local council for R&D for £13,000 and that was towards
18:33the patent
18:34cost so that's already in the in the account towards helping with that as well. So you've had £13,000
18:39as a grant from the local council. Yep. You've done a crowdfunding and how much money did you raise in
18:44total? So that was just under £7,000 so £6,800. Yeah. That was mainly pre-orders. We then
18:50had a period where we were we weren't actually promoting a brand we were getting them made
18:54but through word of mouth we still did about another £13,000 of sales through the website.
18:59Today we've sold over £1,500. So total revenue of? So from when we started the Kickstarter to the
19:07end of April £26,900. So you're very early stages in the business at the moment? Yes, yeah. Right.
19:17Hi Matt. Hello. What do they sell for? So we sell them for £20. Yeah. The reason is we want
19:23to keep
19:24the price as relatively low as possible because we're aware that a lot of our target market are on
19:28the lower end of the income bracket. Obviously because of the way it's made and the extra work
19:34that goes into it, the first batch costs £12.90 to be made. The future batches are planned to be
19:41around £10.36 and then there's obviously a discount for orders of £5,000, £10,000 and we're dropping
19:46down by about a pound each time as well. So I want to hear what our experts are on the
19:50end.
19:50Yeah. You shouldn't be paying no more than £5, £6 in my view. But what I would be looking at
20:01is
20:02just how big this market is and whether you can attract a big supermarket or a big chain to endorse
20:12this or sponsor it. Well, the adaptive clothing market was valued at £1.2 billion in 2022. So there's
20:20fair market there for adaptive clothing in general. I think the next step really on this is how do you
20:27create a collection? Yeah. You've got one product there which limits you to what you can sell. Yeah,
20:34absolutely. So it's to create a collection and then maybe get retailers to actually...
20:42Do you know what? I think, I don't know about that. I think you've gone to the trouble and to
20:48my
20:48amazement have got a patent. I don't think that you should be bringing out different ranges. I think
20:55you should license this to all retailers to get them completely involved rather than trying to
21:04build out a niche for yourself and build your own brand. I think you could literally have this
21:11radiated across a whole market.
21:16Matt, to answer, I guess, the question that's been asked there, what is the vision for this? What is
21:22the big vision? Is it to turn it into a brand or is it something else? So we want to
21:27kind of,
21:27with lots of different directions we could take it. We've thought of hospital gowns with pop fidget
21:33toys built in for kids who are having operations or anxious. Business attire for adults, you know,
21:37business meetings can be quite stressful. So the opportunities are endless.
21:42Is there any other way or system you've used to score whether people are using it, like it,
21:49gaining benefit from it, other than just the sort of anecdotal evidence that you provided?
21:54We've had reviews, we've mainly had reviews from people, like I say, and the purchase through the
21:59website and the views on social media and stuff is the main way we've been judging for you back at
22:04the moment. So wondering if there was some way to test it to some degree, just to give it a
22:09little
22:09bit more credibility in terms of the efficacy of having the poppets within the clothing. Because look,
22:15I totally get it. I guess I'm classed as a neurodivergent myself. I have ADHD.
22:20Yeah. It's just trying to understand the direction of this business and how it becomes an
22:24investable business for me as an investor. And that's why I need clarity and that sort of big
22:28vision. Are we trying to make a brand here? Is this like a product which we license? Is it something
22:33else? I think pop fidget toys are really popular with just kids in general. There's the opportunity to
22:38kind of almost feel like a flanker brand and just have a t-shirt that maybe had them built into
22:41it,
22:41like a mass market produced thing. And are you thinking about shorts and bracelets or other
22:46items? Yeah. So like I say, the big one we got asked for was a school uniform because so often
22:54it's misunderstood that it's because it's called fidget toys, but they're not toys for the people
22:59who need them. They're an aid. But I think that comes back to my point, which was
23:06how are you going to do? You can't cover all of these markets. You can't cover every single school
23:11uniform. You can't cover every single t-shirt. It's going to be really hard. So it has to,
23:16in my head, this has to become attached to some form of whatever you've got in terms of your pattern,
23:22but there has to be something there that could be licensed to people that could be incorporated into
23:27clothing as an option. Yeah. Otherwise, I'm struggling to see how you could build this out as an
23:33individual unique brand because there are so many routes to market that if every single school needs
23:39it in their school uniform, well, a lot of schools are attached to a supplier of uniform and you're
23:45told to go there to go and buy your uniform. So now that means you've got to go and sell
23:49to that
23:49supplier a completely different uniform under a completely different uniform. Well, then you have
23:55supermarkets like Asda who have a school uniform shop. They have the generic colours that the majority
23:59you've... Exactly. Yeah, so that's kind of what it is. Whereas if you now license this to Asda,
24:04they can incorporate it into their clothing. But what you're not doing then, by doing that,
24:08is you can incorporate it into Next, into M&S, into... Because you're giving it as a generic license.
24:14So I see this as a route and I'd urge you to do it. I congratulate you on even,
24:18and particularly your son, who is absolutely bloody adorable. Thank you. But I can't find a way to invest in
24:24this. So I'm going to say that I'm out. But please, I encourage you to see what you can do
24:30in the
24:30licensing front. Okay, thank you very much.
24:37It's a difficult one. The problem is unless you link up with somebody, a charity, a retailer,
24:47and make this much more aware of the problem. It's not a business. You know, I think you've come in
24:55here pitching a business rather than a cause. Yeah. This is a cause. The problem is, is commercially,
25:07it doesn't make sense. So for that reason, I'm out.
25:15I think what you've done is fantastic. But I, at the same time, I think you're so early in your
25:22journey that as an investor, it's hard for me to see the rest of the climb in my head.
25:30So for that reason, I'm going to say that, Matt. Thank you.
25:35And Matt, I'm going to tell you where I am. It isn't an investment as it is right now. But
25:43do the
25:44work with the charities. And I bet you, you will work this out. So all the best. And it was
25:50so great
25:51to meet your son. And I cannot imagine how proud you must be. So thanks for coming in. But I'm
25:57out.
25:58Thank you. Matt, you've come in here asking for £50,000. What did you want to do with the money?
26:05So that would allow us to begin the work on the school uniform, arrange and have stock with that.
26:10Yep. And your patent. Yep. How confident are you in defending that? Very, very confident. The patent
26:17covers us to produce any kind of clothing with pop fidget toys in. So I'll tell you where I am.
26:23Yep.
26:24I think obviously, you've come in here with a half a million pound valuation. Yep. And the business
26:30is in a very early stage. So it's really hard to justify a half a million pound valuation. Yep.
26:35You're also a very high risk business. Okay.
26:37So putting in 50,000, I would be looking to take a lot more than 10% of your business.
26:42Okay.
26:42You know, you might be looking at the 25, maybe 30% of your business. And based on everything I've
26:47heard from the other dragons today, I feel really, really strongly that your best route is exactly
26:53what Peter has said. And if your patent is as strong as what you think it is, and you can
26:58take
26:58that international, my word, this could be absolutely ginormous. All it needs is a couple of introductions
27:05to make some licensing. Yep. If I'm being really honest, it feels like the not right thing to do
27:11to take a massive stake in someone's business for the sake of opening a couple of doors. But I genuinely
27:18think you are onto something massive. Okay, thank you. So I'm going to say I don't feel like I can
27:22invest,
27:22and I'm out. Yep. But I'll be watching. Okay. Thank you very much. Good luck. Good luck.
27:27Thank you all very much. Thank you, Matt. Cheers, Matt. Good luck.
27:31Matt must leave the den empty handed. But despite their failure to clinch a deal,
27:37the lad and dad team behind this family business remain relatively upbeat.
27:43Disappointed, obviously, to not get an offer, but got some fantastic feedback. They all really
27:48loved the idea, which is great. To be honest, I'm not mad. I'm happy. Yeah.
27:56And, uh, yeah. Yeah. I thought Max was brilliant. Oh, my goodness. He was fantastic.
28:02Absolutely. Is he not the coolest entrepreneur we've ever seen in the day?
28:07I mean, one minute, I'm just sat in my room creating a T-shirt. Next minute, I'm on
28:13one of the biggest TV shows in all of Britain.
28:16And hopefully it'll show the neurodivergent kids that they can achieve anything.
28:21No matter what disability you have, you can always find something you can be good at.
28:27Exactly.
28:41My name is Jonathan Penner. I've been living in London for the past seven years, but originally I'm French.
28:47We're essentially making luxury skincare more accessible by making
28:50luxury skincare without the luxury price.
28:54Well, I wonder in what way this is going to revolutionise our skincare regime, Deborah.
28:58I wonder.
29:02For us, it's super important to receive investment, plus getting a dragon on board
29:06that have a lot of experience will be invaluable for our business.
29:10So I'm a bit stressed, but overall I'm super excited.
29:22Hello, Dragon. My name is Jonathan Penner, and I'm the founder of Asia Beauty, a brand that
29:27revolutionised the skincare industry by delivering luxury skincare without the luxury price tag.
29:33So during a trip to South Korea to visit some of the best skincare manufacturers in the world,
29:38we found that luxury skincare brands that we all know did actually manufacture the product there.
29:44And after learning about the cost structure and really how much it truly costs to build a luxury skincare product,
29:48we found that the same brand did add a significant markup on the product price.
29:52So the question is here. Why are luxury skincare products so expensive?
29:57And to be honest with you, the answer lies in an outdated, markup-heavy supply chain.
30:01And we at Asia Beauty are actively trying to challenge this.
30:05So we streamlined our operation by building a network of labs for better ingredient sourcing.
30:09We did embrace a direct consumer sales model, and we're using subscription to further reduce our price and pass the
30:15saving back to our customer.
30:16So based on stock, ingredient price, and demand, our price fluctuates, and we encourage our customers to locking their rate
30:24with the subscriptions.
30:25Our concept has already proven to be successful. We did achieve 5.4 million pound turnovers in two years.
30:31We have 7,000 subscribers growing at a 15% rate each month, but yet we are just getting started.
30:38So today, we are looking for more than just investment. We are looking for partners with expertise in retail,
30:43distributions, and international growth. So I'd like to offer you a 2.5% stake of equity for £50,000.
30:51I'm just going to bring you some product here.
30:57A range of high-end skincare products sourced with value in mind is the proposition from Jonathan Penner.
31:05So we have five products for now.
31:07Peter?
31:08It's one of those.
31:09Yep.
31:09Thank you very much.
31:10Jonathan is seeking £50,000 in return for a 2.5% share in his business.
31:16Sorry.
31:18And Stephen Bartlett is first to clarify exactly what's on offer.
31:28Jonathan?
31:29Yeah.
31:29Can I just confirm with you, the real sort of value proposition of this product is that what you've
31:36managed to do is get high-quality products and give them to the consumer at an affordable price.
31:43That's correct.
31:45The way a lot of the beauty brands manufacture the products, they generally have one contract
31:49manufacturer per product. And us, we have about 35 that all know how to manufacture our products.
31:54So based on demand, based on ingredient price and availability slots, we're then going to pick
32:01the most cost efficient on the day.
32:03So if I just take this intense firming face serum that's on the website now.
32:08So that is at £19.20.
32:11What is the average fluctuation on that product over a 12-month period?
32:16I'd say it's probably around £26, the median price. But sometimes it can go higher.
32:21Okay. And is this price fluctuation model used a lot in this industry and I'm just not familiar
32:26with it?
32:27Not at all. Not at all. We're actually working on developing something that will do this
32:30automatically, similar to what airline are essentially having. So for example, if we're
32:36running very low on stock on the face serum, we're going to simply sell it for a bit more.
32:44Okay. Can you run me through the revenue gross margin and profit so far?
32:51So the first year of business, we did about £2.2 million turnovers, £1.4 gross and a £61k net
32:59profit.
32:59And this year we did £3.2 million turnovers, £2 million gross, and we maintained a £51k net profit.
33:08So you're spending a lot of money on overhead. You know, £3.2 million turnover, £51k profit.
33:16So talk me through the big headlines.
33:19I guess marketing is obviously probably our biggest category of spend. We're spending £1 million in
33:26total, like last year. And in terms of your £1 million spend, because obviously you're in growth
33:33phase. So I presume you're throwing money at it at the moment to just build brand awareness. And you're
33:39not terribly worried as long as you're not losing too much money in the bottom line. That's the phase
33:43the business is throwing money at it. Have you worked out your most successful channels?
33:49So at the moment, pretty much 90% of our revenue is coming from our websites. And I guess the
33:56next
33:56growth phase for Azure will be to scale in retail. Our goal is to be presented in booths and everywhere.
34:03But we know that those really large companies have some very tight requirements that often
34:07startups like us cannot fulfil on the long term.
34:14Okay, so, Jonathan, I know a lot about retail. Now, if you go to Boots or you go to anybody,
34:21the first thing they'll say to you is, we'll put you on our website. Because the way I see this
34:26is,
34:26you know, there are websites who have marketplaces. People like Marks & Spencer's, John Lewis, Next.
34:35They've all got marketplaces, which is quite easily, you know, to get on if you know what
34:40you're doing. And I just wanted to make sure, is that a track that you would be very open to?
34:47It is. Not yet. Because of operational capacity to build the stock to supply all those orders,
34:54it will be quite hard to do from day one. So we decided to start by the smaller pharmacy,
34:59slowly build up a capacity to then be able to move to the large retailer. And it's all the process
35:07from start to finish that we need, ideally, some help on.
35:11So you want to go to pharmacies first, which is a harder slog, much more work intensive,
35:20because you need a team behind you to support them, especially if you're going direct one by one.
35:26Are you sure that's the right way? It might be the right way in a short term,
35:31just because simply we are still building the capacity in terms of production, etc.
35:35But that's why you need a dragon. Exactly.
35:41Jonathan, what's the biggest risk to your business in your perspective?
35:44So your biggest risk is that we have for now 90% of our revenue that's coming
35:49from our own website, and we're looking to bring this down to 30%.
35:52And what are your traffic sources? If I look to the back end of your website,
35:55where's the traffic coming from?
35:57Meta is about 40%. Google is about 30%. And then the rest is split equally between TikTok,
36:03Snapchats, and we do direct mail. So this is really a paid ads business?
36:10For now, yeah. What are you forecasting at the moment?
36:13For this year, £6 million. Okay. And what's the gross and net on that?
36:18I'm not too sure the gross, but the net profit will be around £300,000.
36:23Because when I was thinking about this business, sometimes if a business becomes a little bit
36:28addicted to digital ads, they can show these kinds of numbers. They can show very high revenue numbers,
36:34but then profitability isn't good. It's almost a bit of a trap where you need to get a return on
36:40your
36:40adverts. So paid advertising, digital ads on Meta and Google become the preference. And then the
36:46prices of those paid ads go up for a variety of different reasons, and businesses basically
36:50crumble. But then moving away to get other traffic from other sort of top of the funnel marketing,
36:55using influencer collaborations, using TikTok shopping, or other sort of creative organic social
37:01content, it's really, really hard to do. And it's so hard to do, in fact, that I think the only
37:06way
37:08this business would stand a chance is if myself and my team really, like, ran that for you.
37:17And that's not realistic. So you're incredibly impressive. Thank you. But in this case,
37:22this isn't an investment for me. So I'm going to say that I'm out.
37:24Jonathan, I'm going to tell you where I am.
37:32So you are really impressive. But I see troubles ahead. And those troubles are all about cash.
37:43And you're creating that problem by the low margin, which is the very USP that you're offering to the
37:51consumer, which is fantastic. But there's a reason why the other brands have so much margin. They don't
37:59keep it for themselves. They spend it. They spend it on visibility. So when the pharmacies or boots or any,
38:09any of them want to run any kind of promotion, and actually, they will insist on it,
38:16you've got to have the margin to enable them to do that. And you've got a tiny, tiny margin.
38:23So I'm afraid, despite the fact I would love to invest in you, this isn't one for me. So I'm
38:32afraid I'm out.
38:38Um, you have a business here that this is this is a brutal, brutal, I mean, every market's competitive at
38:46the moment, by the way. So it's hard to segment. However, highly, highly competitive world that you're entering.
38:54And I think it's going to come back to one thing, you need money, and a lot more money. So
38:59for that reason,
39:00sadly, I'm out. No problem, thank you. But all credit to you. Well done. Thank you.
39:08Jonathan. So, um, I love my skincare. I am really into it. And it was quite exciting when you came
39:18in
39:18the proposition. But then when I boil it down, it is just another skincare product in a really
39:26overcrowded market. So I'm sorry to say I'm out, but best of luck with it. Thank you very much.
39:36Jonathan, um, it's very apparent that the journey you're on now, you're like a hamster
39:45on a wheel. You're going up there, you're doing a turnover, but you can't make the profit.
39:51Having looked at this, um, I think you are forced to look at retail in one form or another.
40:00Um, I'm not sure whether you've got the manpower or the organisation to go to individual pharmacies.
40:09That's, that's hard work.
40:12I'm more, um, inclined to think that you need to go initially to the top end of retailers.
40:22John Lewis, Fenix, uh, even M&S online.
40:28It's because I, I, I think your price points, you know, you need to get this product into lots of
40:34people's hands and hopefully they come back to you on your website.
40:39That's right.
40:39You know, uh, that that's the cheaper way of marketing.
40:44If that makes sense?
40:45That makes sense.
40:47Um, and you need help, but, but I'm, I mean, 50,000 for two and a half percent.
40:52I mean, look, I'll make you an offer, but it's probably one that I think that I'm comfortable
40:58with in what you need.
41:00I'll give you all of the money, 50,000, um, for 10% and I'll include in that another 50
41:10,000 of a loan
41:11that you might need in the future for working capital for a year.
41:16But, but what, what, what I'll give you for that is I'll give you, uh, definitely intro into
41:26certain retailers and of course, open as many doors as we can.
41:36So in terms of like the valuations, I think we were pretty like generous and I'm happy to agree
41:45to the deal, but for 5% of the company.
41:53Make it seven.
41:54You got a deal.
41:55I'm sorry.
41:55Five percent.
41:56We're not my last words.
42:00And on, on that 5%, you would, you agree with my strategy?
42:07I agree on you.
42:08So JJ, again, I know you, you're the man in retail, so.
42:11Yeah.
42:14Okay, you got a deal.
42:15Yeah, he's got a deal.
42:20All right.
42:21Jonathan has done it.
42:23Thank you, everyone.
42:24Have a good day.
42:26Congratulations.
42:29He leaves the den with a hundred thousand pounds.
42:34And the backing of a dragon who's perfectly placed to help him conquer the high street.
42:41I'm super glad because we done a deal with Tuko, um, and our strategy is to go all into retail
42:47and
42:48looking forward to start working with him.
42:50Who's the man?
42:51You're the man.
42:53You're the man in retail.
42:54Bravo, Tuko.
42:55Well done.
43:06Water.
43:07Let's do this.
43:10My name's David Parr.
43:11I'm from Brighton.
43:13My name's Ahmed and I'm also from Brighton.
43:16And we've been friends for, ooh, getting on for 25 years now.
43:21And we run our business together.
43:24We don't ever fall out.
43:28We disagree on things, but we both see that as, as just a kind of iterative process of
43:33giving birth to an idea or getting it right.
43:36Yeah, we go back and forth and we talk about it.
43:39And then we decide that I'm right.
43:43Everything's fine.
43:43Yeah.
43:52Hello dragons.
43:53My name's Ahmed.
43:54And my name is David.
43:56We are the founders of Present.
43:59Present is a smartphone app that enables you to send a gift to anyone in your phone contacts
44:04instantly.
44:06Now imagine this.
44:07You find out it's a friend's birthday on a WhatsApp group.
44:10And in that moment, you've got no other option but to say,
44:12happy birthday, buddy.
44:14With Present, you can choose a gift from a marketplace of a brand they'll love,
44:18add a fun video message and text it to them instantly.
44:22Now obviously, it's not just for birthdays.
44:25Our data suggests that over 60% of our gifts sent are for just because moments.
44:29So for example, you could send someone a gift to say,
44:31thanks for investing in our company.
44:33The present moments are almost limitless.
44:36Since our launch, we've delivered just over 90,000 gifts through our go-to-market strategy
44:42called the gift of giving.
44:43This is where we gave people gifts to send to their friends and family,
44:47which created a wave of generosity that swept the UK as people paid the love forwards.
44:52Now perfected, our target is to hit 1 million gifts sent in the next six months.
44:57For the next chapter in our journey, we're asking for 90,000 pounds in return for a 4%
45:01investment in our company.
45:03Now, we'd like to do a live demonstration and Sara, we're going to send you a little gift
45:07and then we'll open the floor for questions.
45:11A smartphone app, which allows its users to send and receive instant gifts, is the offering from
45:18friends and business partners, Omid Moolemi and David Parr.
45:22So you open the app and there you are.
45:25Oh, there I am.
45:26So let's say I'll send you a coffee.
45:30You choose send, I can add a nice little video, I can even add a filter.
45:35So, hi Sara, here's a little coffee to get you through all the pictures today.
45:39So I've uploaded that and then you will get a nice little message,
45:43notification telling you you've received a gift.
45:46Omid and David are seeking 90,000 pounds.
45:50Oh, the gift has been received.
45:53In return for a 4% share in their company.
45:57So now if you scratch it away with your finger, so to reveal the gift beneath it.
46:02Hi Sara, here's a little coffee to get you through all the pictures today.
46:06Cute.
46:08Sara Davies has accepted her complimentary pick-me-up.
46:12But can Omid and David's app tempt any of the dragons into parting with a five-figure sum?
46:21Awesome.
46:23That's, um, that's really exciting.
46:26And so what, what, Sara's been sent there, she's been sent like a coupon to go and redeem.
46:30Yeah, in that instance.
46:32Yeah, it's a scan of a lasset that's recognised at the till of the brand.
46:36So, so what happens if I, I have the app, but who I send it to doesn't have the app,
46:42they need to download the app to receive the presents?
46:45Yes, yes.
46:45So if they're not in the app, then you just send it via your contact list.
46:48They'll receive the text message saying, Sara sent you a gift, follow here to redeem.
46:53They download the app and the gift will be there.
46:55Yeah.
46:55Okay.
46:56I think I get it.
46:57Will you just explain to me about this?
46:59You've had 90,000 people who've gifted, but you did that as a marketing.
47:05Yeah.
47:05So you haven't had 90,000 customers.
47:08Yeah.
47:08So one of the big challenges in the business was how do we build this network
47:13and how do we build it to a huge scale and very cheaply?
47:17So we partnered with O2 Priority and we then partnered with M&S to promote the gifts
47:25and send them out to people.
47:27Okay.
47:27So that big mobile phone company are sending, they're sharing their data with you.
47:34They are giving you access to their customers.
47:36They promote us.
47:38O2 say, hey, download present and get four free packs of Percy Pigs to share.
47:43And that starts creating your network within the app.
47:46Because the other people have to download the app.
47:48Exactly.
47:49So you've gifted 90,000 gifts.
47:51That's right.
47:52Which you haven't had to buy because you've partnered with retailers who also wanted it.
47:56They get football.
47:57Rather, I'm making a win-win round all of this marketing.
48:00Whoever came up with that, that was really smart.
48:03Thanks.
48:04Yep.
48:04It was all there, obviously.
48:05I love how we were brought to the credit there.
48:08Yeah.
48:11I like the fact that you're not spending a fortune on marketing
48:15to get all this data, that you're partnering up with retailers and companies.
48:23That's a great way of creating data.
48:26So your model is, you don't own any stock, correct?
48:30That's correct.
48:31Okay, so what percent do you get from your sales?
48:35So it varies from brand to brand.
48:39Average?
48:4022% we get a margin.
48:42Yeah, it's early days.
48:44It is.
48:45But all of the partners have said we can talk about margins as we go along.
48:52So, since you started the business, just talk me through your financials up to where we are today.
48:58So we've turned over £41,800 this year, and we've got a net loss, as it stands, of £200.
49:09Guys, what's your customer retention rate on the app?
49:12So when someone comes in the front door, and you do nothing, are they still there in six months time?
49:18They're there in a year time.
49:20And what frequency? How active are they?
49:22Every 40, so the 2% are using it frequently. They're spending every 47 days.
49:29So 2% of people come back every 47 days?
49:33And just to go back a step before, what we do know is over 60% of people that spend
49:42are the recipients of the free gift and not the actual sender.
49:46Hence why the network viral effects works really well.
49:48Yeah, but why are the percentage of those people not using the app once they've got it?
49:52The number's been built up.
49:53Because 2% is tiny.
49:54Okay, so we have been in six campaigns where we're very active.
49:59Yeah, but outside of your campaign, because your campaign is...
50:02But we're planning to be in campaign every day.
50:04No, I get that, because you're trying to incentivise people to join.
50:08But you're giving something away for nothing.
50:11Yes.
50:11Right, that doesn't make a business.
50:13No, but the...
50:15People that are not, because the question here is the people that are not necessarily receiving a free gift,
50:21what's the activity there across that user base of people using the app and spending money?
50:26So really 2%.
50:27It's 2%, but part of that is because of the nature of the app.
50:32This is your issue.
50:33But that's exactly where we are as a business.
50:35We're a small team.
50:37We had to prove that the go-to-market strategy of building network fast and cheap was possible.
50:43We've been concentrating on that.
50:45I have no question in my mind I can turn that 2% to 3% to 4% to
50:505%.
50:51That's critical.
50:53I have absolutely no...
50:56It's the sequence, isn't it?
50:56I am not worried about that in the slightest.
50:59That is my job.
51:00That's what I'm going to do next.
51:04Guys, I applaud you for all you've done.
51:07It's really, really interesting.
51:08And I have to give you a lot of credit because I think...
51:11I do think you went...
51:13You aimed at the difficult...
51:14One of the key difficult challenges, which is how do we acquire customers in an innovative way.
51:19But unfortunately, the retention problem is it's bedfellow.
51:27It's equally important.
51:28It's equally critical.
51:32So, to make an investment today, I'd be betting on you getting this group of people that came for Free
51:36Percy Pigs,
51:37getting them to then start adopting a brand new gifting behavior on a brand new application,
51:43which is, I just think, is such a big mountain to climb.
51:47And so, with that in mind, it feels a little bit early because I'm basically banking on two individuals
51:53pivoting towards a highly retentive, highly monetizable model that I haven't yet seen.
52:01So, for that reason, I'm going to say that I'm out.
52:03But I wish you the best.
52:04Thank you so much.
52:08Guys, I'll tell you what I think.
52:10I've been sitting here listening, and you are.
52:12You're really good.
52:13But I worry for you that you're going to end up as a really, really, really good service
52:23for all of the people who are putting their product onto your site.
52:28Because you have proven that you have a great mechanism for engaging with people,
52:33driving foot flow into the businesses that you've actually got listed.
52:39But that's very, very different from the getting people to pay.
52:44And I, without visibility of how you turn that into a model that can actually make money for you,
52:52I worry that you're going to have to work something else out.
52:57So, I'm really sorry, guys.
52:59And I really do wish you all the best.
53:00But I'm out.
53:06So, I really think you've got a lot of challenges here.
53:10I think some of the biggest challenges that Stephen's been mentioning, I actually agree with.
53:18But hearing you say specifically that you are very, very confident moving from the adoption to 2%,
53:27I kind of believe you.
53:29I think you've got a chance.
53:34There's no doubt that I could add huge value to this.
53:38Especially when you internationalise it.
53:40And the partnerships are really interesting.
53:45So, I'm going to make you an offer.
53:47The only thing is, it is going to upset you, the offer.
53:53So, it's going to be bittersweet.
53:55But then at least you've got a choice of whether you want to go ahead with the dragon or not.
54:01So, you've asked for £90,000 for 4%.
54:06I'm going to offer you all of the money.
54:10But I need to have 15% of the business.
54:15Thank you very much.
54:20Guys, I'm going to make it easy for you.
54:23I know what I connected to this.
54:26I think you guys know.
54:28We do.
54:29So, because I know how I can accelerate your journey,
54:35I'm going to make you an offer.
54:38And again, I'm going to offer you the same as Peter.
54:44I'll give you all of the money, the £90,000 for 15%.
54:48But I'm also willing to share with Peter, because I think we make an amazing duo for this project.
54:55Knowing that we're both in retail, we know everybody.
54:59So, that's my offer.
55:00Thank you very much.
55:05Guys, I'll tell you where I'm at.
55:07I like the product.
55:09And I can see so many ways I can help the business.
55:13So, I will offer you all of the money, £90,000,
55:18or 7% of the business.
55:23That's a gift.
55:26This is so hard.
55:28This is, yeah.
55:30Thank you, everyone.
55:31Thank you so much, really, to start with that.
55:33Yeah, I think, would there be a world in which the three of you would like to join us together?
55:40Split it three ways, and at 12%.
55:44I mean, I would jump at that.
55:50Yeah, no, I think it's too beneficial for Sarah.
55:53If we're splitting this three ways, I would want to have the highest share to be selfish about it.
56:00And I'll speak up to that end.
56:28Mm-hm.
56:29And be prepared to take a smaller stake, because I believe Peter brings more to the table than I do.
56:35So, I would genuinely be happy to split it on the offer that I gave.
56:40So, I would do £30,000 for 5%, and then it's up to Touka and Sarah, whatever they want to
56:47negotiate.
56:48I think I know what I can bring.
56:49And I would want to match Peter's offer, exactly, of £30,000 at 5%.
56:59And then the question becomes, what does Sarah get for a £30,000?
57:05So, I would offer £30,000 at 2.5%, if you split it three ways.
57:13Are you happy with that, Sarah?
57:14I offered that.
57:16OK.
57:16That's good.
57:17But that means you're giving away 12.5% of the business.
57:21Instead of 12.
57:26I could be tempted.
57:28Yeah.
57:29I think we'll do it.
57:30We've got to do it.
57:31Yeah?
57:31Great.
57:32OK.
57:35Ahmed and David have done it.
57:37You won't regret that.
57:39Thank you very much.
57:41Thank you, Debra.
57:41Thank you so much.
57:42Thank you, guys.
57:44The Dragons fought each other for the most favourable deal, but the entrepreneurs still depart with £90,000.
57:52I think it's the right decision.
57:53I think it is, too.
57:55And the backing of a trio with the cash, contacts and credibility to turn a promising present into a very
58:03bright future.
58:04Right on, buddy.
58:06It's been a long time, but we've got here.
58:07We've done it.
58:08Smashed it.
58:09Who'd have thought?
58:10Here we are in Dragon's Den and we've got three amazing dragons who are going to take presents in the
58:13next level.
58:14Sarah, I see why you did that.
58:16You got exactly the same as what you offered.
58:17Yes, actually, I've got a business which is way more valuable because it's got you two on board.
58:33Dragon's Den will return later in the year.
58:36I've got 50 years experience.
58:38You've got five years.
58:4050 years.
58:42This is the messiest set of negotiations I think I've ever had.
58:47You've remortgaged your houses.
58:49Yeah, yeah.
58:50I'm a gambling man and I want to take a punt on you.
58:52It kind of sounds like you're trying to employ me.
58:55I won't.
58:56Just let me finish speaking for just a second.
58:57I'm afraid this ain't gonna work.
59:00In that case, unfortunately, Deborah, you're out.
59:03Wow.
59:17Two days.
59:20We'll see you later on the day.
59:22Great.
59:24One day.
59:28Yeah.
59:32See you later.