Joni Pilgrim on UAD 3.6 and how AI could disrupt appraisals

Name: Joni Pilgrim on UAD 3.6 and how AI could disrupt appraisals
Uploaded: 2026-09-02T08:00:00+00:00
Duration: 22 min 37 s
Channel: HousingWire

00:10Welcome, everyone. My guest today is Joni Pilgrim, co-founder and CEO of Nationwide Appraisal

00:16Network for 22 years until the sale of NAND this summer. She now serves as the membership

00:22committee chair for the Florida Association of Mortgage Professionals, and she's the co-founder

00:26of RISE Women in Mortgage. I'm excited to talk to Joni about UAD 3.6, AI in appraisals,

00:33and more. Joni, welcome to the podcast.

00:36Sarah, thank you so much for having me.

00:39Great to have you on here. I got to be on a panel with you at the Florida Association of

00:45Mortgage Professionals, which was so much fun. It was a RISE panel, Women in Mortgage. We're

00:51going to get to that. But thank you so much for being on here and talking about appraisals.

00:56Happy to be here. Thanks for the invite. And yes, that panel was so much fun. So thanks

01:01for joining us for that.

01:03Absolutely. Okay, well, let's talk about, so, you know, I said in the intro, I mean, you've

01:06been in this business. I mean, you ran Nationwide Appraisal Network for 22 years. So that's not

01:13even like what you did before that. You've seen a lot of how this industry has changed. Tell

01:20me how you think the appraisal space is different now. What's the biggest thing that hits you?

01:25Versus when you started?

01:27Oh, my gosh. The appraisal industry looked completely different. Technology was nowhere

01:34near where it is today. I don't think appraisal management companies played the role that they do

01:40today. The amount of data available to lenders, to appraisers, to consumers especially, was

01:46incredibly limited compared to what we have today. Then you add in the financial crisis,

01:51you add in COVID, which obviously changed everything. There became a much bigger focus,

01:58I would say, on appraisal independence, compliance and risk management. I believe AMCs evolved

02:05tremendously during that time when we went from essentially just managing appraisal orders to

02:11becoming much more sophisticated organizations responsible for things like developing technology,

02:17having controls around compliance, quality control, managing vendors, looking at data and

02:24analytics, assessing risk situations. So we kind of went from being the middleman between the appraiser

02:32and the lender to becoming a much more valuable organization where we're truly adding value across

02:38across all streams there. And the technology transformation, I think, has probably been

02:44one of the biggest changes that I've witnessed over the past 22 years. I mean, property data is

02:50everywhere. We can identify trends and inconsistencies a lot faster. I think lenders have a lot more

02:57visibility into the process. Appraisers have better tools at their fingertips also. And I think the way that

03:05consumers kind of look at the overall loan transaction has changed, there's an expectation for things to

03:12move a lot faster, right? So massive shifts over the last 22 years.

03:19I love that you called out a couple of those milestones. Of course, 2008, huge change. And what appraisals look

03:26like, appraisal management companies, how we did appraisals changed after that. But then, you know, COVID.

03:32So, you know, when you think about a time when the spotlight, I felt like the spotlight was on

03:39appraisals in such a way because you had this massive, you know, like people bidding on homes,

03:45unseen, let's not forget, you know, multiple offers, all of these things. And a lot of times,

03:50what stood in the way was the appraisal. There just weren't enough appraisers in some areas,

03:56or it got backlogged. And so then you had the spotlight on appraisals again, that maybe we

04:02hadn't had in a while. And I feel like that's, that was the genesis of a lot of these changes

04:06of

04:07like, you know, why does this part of the process not move at the speed of the rest of it?

04:11And it's

04:11because it was being done in a really outdated way. Yeah. And I think also, you know,

04:19I remember March 17th, I think it was walking into the office and telling everyone, pack up your

04:26stuff. Everybody's going home, set up your desks, we'll figure it out, log in, you know, we'll figure

04:31it out. I don't know what's going to happen. But we're in this together kind of a thing. And

04:36states started shutting down and appraisers weren't able to go into houses. And frankly,

04:42consumers didn't want anybody in their house, we were all masked up and six feet apart. And,

04:47you know, that whole thing. But there was a concern that the mortgage,

04:53I guess, maybe that the industry was kind of stagnant, and basically came to a screeching

04:58halt. So when the Fed stepped in and slashed the rates, that's what really threw it into hyper

05:03overdrive, right? So now we're looking at, wow, we don't have enough appraisers to handle this volume.

05:09And what's going to happen? And there were three, two, three, four week turn times in some of the

05:14states, I can mention Washington and Oregon and hair on everybody's on the back of everybody's

05:19neck stands up like, Oh, my gosh, those states were, you know, it was so hard to get an appraisal

05:23done in those states. But, you know, everybody wanted to take advantage of the low rates,

05:28and that required appraisals. And we, you know, just because the rates lower doesn't mean that

05:33an influx of appraisers got to come into the industry and help us out. We still have the same

05:38number of appraisers performing these appraisals. So that really was a test. And I think what it

05:44highlighted was our dependency on the manual piece and the inspection piece. And so then you saw things

05:52like the hybrid appraisal come out. And it's like, okay, well, we can send a property data collector out to

05:57the property and have the appraiser kind of sit in the seat and do the actual analysis and appraisal

06:03piece and valuation piece. And so there was all these different things that were trying, that were

06:08out there. We were kind of testing the systems and testing whether or not that would be enough data

06:15or good, good enough data for lenders to make good lending decisions on. And now we kind of have evolved

06:20into newer reporting formats. And, you know, I'm sure we're going to talk about that soon. But yeah, the

06:28rate slash is really what kind of pushed that over the edge and really kind of highlighted that.

06:34Well, I think the appraisal is one of the parts of the whole application process that touches the

06:40consumer and is such a nervous, you know, point for them because they're like, is it going to come in

06:46at

06:47what I can get approved for? You know, there's all this uncertainty. And so it just heightened that when it

06:53was

06:53like three, four or five weeks where it's like, I don't even know what's happening, you know, but I,

06:57even in, even today in a more normal environment and things are much more, you know, back to normal,

07:02speed it up. I just think that's one of those things where everyone feels a lot of pressure.

07:07Absolutely. I mean, it's when you, when you buy a home, it's an emotional purchase, right? Because

07:13it's the largest purchase pretty, most of us are ever going to make in our lifetimes.

07:17Um, you're typically dealing with folks behind a screen, not in person, all the way through the,

07:25the mortgage cycle. And there's a lot on the line and some people have moving trucks packed and ready

07:31to rock and roll and they're ready to move. And most, sometimes you're waiting on the appraisal and

07:36sometimes you're waiting on other things. And, you know, so it's very emotional. And when you add

07:42weeks of turn time to that process, it can make things a little tricky for sure.

07:49Well, we learned a lot.

07:52Right. And, and, um, innovated a lot and found different ways of doing it. So let's talk,

07:58that brings us to UAD 3.6, right? A very big change for the appraisal industry of the mortgage

08:05industry coming everywhere. What? November 2nd, I think is the deadline where people have to

08:10start using UAD 3.6. Maybe with that background of like looking at where we've been from your

08:15perspective, how does UAD 3.6 change this for the better?

08:21Yeah. I mean, I think we shouldn't look at UAD 3.6 as simply a new appraisal and I'll say

08:28the four letter word form. It's a report now, but it is bigger than that. I think it's really about

08:34just modernizing the entire appraisal process. It's about moving appraisal reporting into a much

08:40more structured, standardized, and data-driven environment. I think historically appraisal

08:46reports have contained enormous amounts of information. Um, but so much of that information

08:53has lived in these kinds of static reports, right? Single family residence goes on a 1004.

08:58A condominium goes on a 1073. Individual fields for each of these reports. A lot of narrative

09:05commentary from the appraiser. And when you create a more structured data, suddenly you have

09:12a lot of opportunity to, um, improve quality control, uh, improve analytics, create more consistency

09:20and risk identification. I think ultimately all of this goes back to the consumer, um, and to the

09:27lender who can create better decision-making opportunities throughout the mortgage process

09:32because they have a report that is more data-driven and less commentary. So they're looking at facts.

09:44Um, but I also think that we have to be realistic about the implementation. Um, anytime you introduce

09:51change like this, there's going to be a level of disruption. You have appraisers who have to

09:57learn a new way of working. You have AMCs adapting their systems, adapting their workflows. You have

10:03lenders, technology providers, um, appraisal writing software companies, investors, kind of all

10:11preparing for this change. And there's a lot of moving pieces that kind of go into that. So I think

10:17implementation really matters here. And so we have to listen to the people that are actually doing the

10:22work and make sure that we're not creating complexity simply for the sake of modernization, but that

10:27these reports actually do what they're intended to do. You know, I'm coming from outside the mortgage

10:34industry. One of the things that was shocking to me was the complexity of something that seems

10:40straightforward, like, like, like this form or this process. And, and that makes me think of TRID. So I had

10:47been at Hasenware for a couple of years when, when TRID happened and I had no idea that we were

10:52going to

10:52spend two years writing about TRID because it took that long to, to get all the pieces in place for

11:00people to figure it out for the regulators to be on the same bridge. I mean, like it, it didn't

11:05seem

11:05like, like from the outside, I was like, Oh, okay. And then, you know, having lived through that go,

11:10wow, it's, it's so much more complicated than anyone outside the industry knows. Anytime you change a part of

11:15this process. Sure. I think that was one of the things that we always said at NAN is like the

11:20only constant in this industry is change. So let's all get used to it. Expect something always coming

11:26down the pike at some point. And especially like for the appraisers, like, you know, being, being in

11:33the AMC world for 22 years, that's long enough to remember a lot of changes that people thought

11:40were going to completely disrupt or even destroy the appraisal profession. You know, there's some

11:45resistance here and, you know, some pushback and questions and, you know, making sure that we

11:52were out in front of the UAD discussion and doing webinars and partnering with software providers and

11:58lenders on what the expectations would be really helped with that. And I think at every turn, you

12:05know, when we did see change like TRID or UAD 3.6, even the 1004MC form was something that really

12:12kind of

12:12disrupted things. I think every time we saw that, what we noticed was that the profession adapted,

12:19you know, it eventually caught up, it adapted, we ended up moving forward in a positive way. So,

12:25you know, there'll be a learning curve with UAD 3.6, but I think that the industry is just going

12:30to adapt

12:31again. So let's talk about potentially the biggest disruptor for a lot of jobs, right? And that's AI.

12:38And when I look at, you know, AI's role in appraisal and appraising, it's like, is this one of those

12:44professions where you think AI is going to take all the jobs? And, you know, let's get granular here.

12:50I mean, part of all that data collection and part of all those refis that we did on all these

12:54properties, now we have this record of what that property looked like at different times, which sort

13:00of lays a path to be like, how much do we really need someone to go out there in person?

13:04Yeah. And I hear this from so many different people. I think most, it doesn't matter what

13:11part of the mortgage piece you work in. I think everybody, unless you use AI and you really learn

13:18it and adapt it and embrace it, I think you're scared of it, right? But I don't think that AI

13:24is

13:25going to take all the appraisal jobs. I absolutely think AI is going to change the job of the appraiser.

13:31And I think that's true, again, for almost every profession in the mortgage industry.

13:35But I think AI is going to become incredibly good at things like analyzing large amounts of

13:44property data, looking at anomalies, reviewing reports, even creating quality control tools that

13:51implement AI to catch things that maybe the human eye is not going to catch after reading

13:55their 25th report for the day, recognizing certain patterns or identifying objects and photos,

14:02things like that, maybe even automating. And I think this is something that most large companies

14:07are looking at is automating repetitive work and assisting with that. So like, if you take

14:14out that those, you know, overdone activities that we all do, like this repetitious data entry piece

14:21of our job that we all hate to do, and you can implement AI to kind of take care of

14:26that for

14:26you, that's a really positive thing. So I think those are all areas where it can make us more,

14:33I'll say, efficient. But there's another part of the valuation that involves judgment. And I think

14:39that's really where the appraiser's expertise comes in. And this is where I say, you know, I don't think

14:45it's going to take over the appraiser's job, but I think it will change it. I think that a property

14:51isn't just a collection of data points. I think that condition matters, location matters, market nuances

14:58absolutely matter. And sometimes two homes that look almost identical on paper aren't actually

15:05comparable. And understanding why really requires that experience and the judgment of an appraiser who's

15:11familiar with that market. So I think the future is going to be a combination of technology with

15:16human expertise. And the appraiser who absolutely learns how to use AI effectively is going to have

15:24a tremendous advantage over the appraiser who refuses to engage with it. I think that's really

15:29smart and agree that this is throughout the mortgage industry. We're seeing this on all level of different

15:35jobs and that's title and real estate and mortgage and appraisal and, you know, it's housing,

15:41right? It's home building. It's everything because it's coming and it's here. And so we just have to

15:47figure that out. I, um, I was just at my sister's house in Colorado Springs. She is in the most

15:53gorgeous

15:54location in Colorado Springs or like tucked up into like, it looks like she's in the mountains,

15:58but she's in the middle of the city. Every time I go to her house, I was like, there's no

16:02way that you

16:03could appraise this property correctly unless you went inside. Because if you look at the comps in the

16:08neighborhood, maybe not, nobody is sold in that neighborhood for like 25 years. That's the other

16:13thing. Yeah. Um, and just the uniqueness of the site and what she can see. I, every time I go

16:18there,

16:18I was like, oh my gosh, there's no way this, this needs a human appraiser, you know, and this needs

16:22a,

16:22a human real estate person to see it because online it didn't look good. I mean, it's just all these

16:28things where you just go, you know, at the end of the day, it's like, there are a lot of

16:31nuances

16:31that are hard to put into, um, even the best report. Yeah. And I think your average consumer

16:38wants somebody with that level of experience in their home, taking the photos, measuring,

16:45looking at all of the things that have, that, that the home encompasses upgrades, you know,

16:50anything. So I don't think the consumer would be a hundred percent comfortable with AI completely

16:55taking over the appraisal process either. So again, I think it's going to be a balance of

16:59technology and expertise and appraisers. I've already seen the appraisers are embracing it.

17:06They are utilizing it. They're checking their work as we all should. If we're using chat GPT or,

17:11you know, anything like that, we know that the data coming out of that is not 100% reliable.

17:16Check the work, check the data that's coming out of it, but you can use it to get more efficient

17:20for

17:20sure. Okay. Well, I'd love to, Joni, kind of get into something that I know a lot of people are

17:26interested in, which is, you know, um, why, why you decided it was the right time to sell Nan and

17:31then to start Rise Women in Mortgage, um, at this point in your career, at this point in the industry.

17:37Great question. Um, selling a company that you've built from scratch over 22 year period is hard to

17:47describe. Um, I think for us, it was definitely a 20, uh, for us, it was definitely, um, a timing

17:55thing, a timing issue. Um, I think that the industry is definitely consolidating across the board. We're

18:01seeing a lot of that. I think we took Nan to the top. Um, we, we ended on a high

18:08note, um, when we

18:09decided to partner with someone to build what was next. Um, we ended up partnering with Stuart

18:15Valuation Intelligence and that team really understood what we were trying to do from

18:22evaluation management standpoint. And they had the financial backing and the technology to really

18:28kind of take it to the next level. And so when they came knocking, we just looked at the opportunity

18:33as great timing and, um, we just couldn't say no. So it was a great partnership. They're transitioning

18:41every single day. I hear new things coming out of, um, the company, the combined companies on a regular

18:46basis. It's really exciting. I'm so excited to see what they do. Um, but you know, I really kind of

18:53grew

18:53up while building that company in this industry and I raised two kids while building the company and

19:00it just kind of ended up being this like great period for me to kind of end that chapter. I

19:06have my,

19:07my, my daughter went off to college, um, just last week. She's starting the fall semester. My son just

19:13started high school and now I'm definitely in transition mode. So, um, all new things for me,

19:21especially this year, 2026 is a big year. Um, but started rise, uh, about four years ago with Linda

19:29Knowlton. She's amazing. And we kind of had this idea where, you know, we saw a genuine need for

19:37space specifically carved out for women in our industry. And we started this as an initiative

19:42with FAMP, the Florida Association of Mortgage Professionals. And we kind of looked at it as,

19:47you know, a place where women could come together, build relationships, learn from each other and truly

19:52help each other grow our business. And I think one of the reasons I'm so passionate about this is

19:57because I always say, I wish I would have had something like rise when I got into business for

20:05myself 22 years ago, it didn't exist. And I think about how valuable it would have been early in my

20:11career to have this entire community of women at my fingertips, women from different generations,

20:17different companies, different roles, different stages of their career that I could call and say,

20:22Hey, I ran across this issue. Have you ever dealt with this? How would you handle this?

20:27Can you introduce me to someone? Can I pick your brain on this topic? I think that in and of

20:33itself

20:33is incredibly powerful. And that's really at the heart of our mission with RISE. And at the end of

20:41the day, we just want to bring women across the mortgage finance industry together across generations.

20:45I always say this multi-generational term through things like intentional networking,

20:51education and opportunities to grow. And I think it's just really a great opportunity to spotlight

20:59the women in our industry. I think the women in our industry are the backbone of most of the

21:04organizations. And I think most would agree with me on that.

21:08I agree too. So is it open to just people in Florida? Is it open to, I mean, tell me,

21:14a little bit about who can join. Yeah, absolutely. Right now it's part of the Florida Association

21:21Mortgage Professional. So you have to be a FAMP member to be a RISE member and it's for women.

21:26And you don't have to be doing business just in the state of Florida. You can be doing business

21:31all over. But if you're like a licensed loan originator, then your license would be, you would

21:38have a license in Florida to be a FAMP member and that would allow you to be a RISE member.

21:42But we

21:42are looking at expanding RISE at some point. We've had so much great feedback from the women

21:49within the organization that make up the community that have said, hey, how can we expand this and

21:55make it bigger? Because I have women that would benefit from, in my circle, I have women in my circle

22:01that would benefit from being part of this community. And so can we brainstorm on that and strategize

22:06about it? And so that might be coming soon. So stay tuned there. Stay tuned. I love ending with

22:13a teaser. Joni, thank you so much for being on and talking about appraisals. I know it's a near and

22:19dear to your heart, always will be. And that, you know, what you're doing in this industry, we're just

22:23going to keep an eye on. Thank you so much for having me, Sarah. It was a blast.

22:37You

Joni Pilgrim on UAD 3.6 and how AI could disrupt appraisals

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