- 16 hours ago
Mike Florio joins the show to discuss his thoughts on the NFL potentially expanding internationally and some of the Bills new stadium issues.
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00:00Mike, you're on in D.C. Grant and Danny, great to have you back on the program.
00:03How are you?
00:04Guys, I'm doing great. How are you today?
00:05Very well.
00:06Doing well. I was thinking about you.
00:07Wanted to get you on because Roger Goodell, in an interview on German television,
00:12said that there's no doubt in his mind that there's going to be a team
00:17that plays all of its games out of an international, basically, home stadium.
00:22That there will be an international NFL team.
00:24Do you buy that, or is that posturing in some way?
00:28No, I think I do buy it.
00:29And he actually said teams.
00:31And I think if they would ever move a team or expand,
00:34and I think expansion is the far more likely outcome, to a place like London,
00:38I think they would put two teams in London.
00:41I can't imagine an odd number of teams.
00:43The NFL did that by necessity from 1999 through 2001.
00:49That was when the Browns came back, part of the negotiated exit from Cleveland
00:54when the Browns became the Ravens and the Browns became the Browns in 1999.
00:59And then the Texans arrived in 2002.
01:02So I think it would be two teams.
01:04And I believe it would be expansion.
01:07And I think the way I look at it is the statement that officially,
01:14asterisk, put the expansion on the table.
01:17Because that's the only way it would happen.
01:19I cannot imagine a team relocating, and it would be multiple teams.
01:24And I think it would come through expansion.
01:26Now, there's no timeline applied.
01:27So between now and infinity, yes.
01:31But it's the clearest statement I've ever seen any NFL official or team official make
01:37indicating that there will be a team on foreign soil.
01:42But, Mike, if you're going to add teams,
01:44why not give St. Louis and San Diego or some other market like Austin a team?
01:49Well, and who's to say they wouldn't ultimately do that, too?
01:52I think the long-term vision, and I think it'll take a while to get there,
01:57if they start adding teams beyond 32, would be 40.
02:00But I think they're going to look at these international markets.
02:04They saw what the World Cup did.
02:06They've seen what the international growth has done.
02:09They're committed to this for the long haul.
02:11This is something that if they could ever get the global crowd as excited about pro football
02:17as the American populace is, this billion-dollar business becomes a trillion-dollar business.
02:25And they see what soccer is.
02:27And I remember a time when people thought that football would never catch baseball in the U.S.
02:33And I lived through the decades where football systematically caught baseball in popularity
02:39and has since left it in the dust.
02:41So they're committed to this over the long haul.
02:44And it's just a question of the right time, the right moment to identify the proper venue.
02:53And they've got two NFL-ready stadiums in London right now.
02:57And really, any place in Europe where they play a game is technically NFL-ready
03:01because it has to have all the technology in place to allow the game to be played,
03:04to allow replay to happen in real time.
03:08So, yeah, I think that they see greater growth potential long-term for the sport
03:13if they would put teams outside of our borders.
03:18So, and Mike, and Mike Florio with us here on G&D, you just touched on the logistics of it.
03:22Because somebody brought up earlier, and we were just kind of kicking this around.
03:24Yeah, but who's going to build them a stadium?
03:26And I kind of thought it was to what you just said.
03:29Don't they kind of already have stadiums at the ready that can be football stadiums
03:33during, you know, English football or soccer to us during their off-seasons?
03:38Won't it already kind of be ready-made there?
03:40Yeah, it's ready to go.
03:41I think the logistical issues deal more with having a significant number of employees
03:48who are stationed full-time in these other countries.
03:53Will there be guys who get drafted by a non-U.S. team who say,
03:57screw that, I'm not going to London or Germany or wherever else there may be a team?
04:03And you have issues like exchange rates, tax rates, you've got travel,
04:07although there are efforts to bring back supersonic travel,
04:12and the NFL has been monitoring those.
04:13There was an item in the Wall Street Journal at some point in 2025
04:16regarding the NFL paying very close attention to that.
04:20And if they really want to do it, they'll just find a way to do it.
04:23They are chasing something bigger than how easy or difficult it would be
04:29to have teams in these places.
04:31They want the game to be global.
04:34I think the World Cup experience, if the NFL was paying attention,
04:38should have gotten their eyes open to what football could become
04:42with the proper investment, and they seem to be willing to make it.
04:44And then you find somebody who's extremely rich, it'll pay the expansion fee
04:49to have these teams in other countries.
04:52And once they start down that path, I don't think there'll be any stopping
04:55where the NFL goes.
04:56So one of the things I was thinking about also is I watch my sons, for example,
05:00and all their friends, and so many people in this area here in D.C.,
05:04Richmond, and beyond, they're fans of the English Premier League for soccer.
05:07They've never been to Tottenham.
05:08They've never been to Liverpool or any of these places,
05:10but they follow this league religiously, and there doesn't have to be a team
05:14here, though, for that.
05:15Is the NFL able to kind of export that way as well, but even kind of delay
05:19the groundwork for having a team maybe in London?
05:22Well, we're 20 years into this experiment where the NFL plays games that count
05:27in other countries.
05:29And look at where it's gone from one game a year to nine, ten.
05:33They want to get up to 16 under the CBA.
05:36That's one of the key concessions the NFL is looking to get from the union
05:39because currently the CBA limits the NFL to ten international games per year.
05:44So they've decided the only way to truly capture the imagination of fans is to
05:50give them a local team to rally around and to root for.
05:53I mean, really, anybody that loves the NFL, there aren't any Rob Lowe fans out
05:58there that go buy an NFL hat and wear it to games.
06:01They become a fan of a team.
06:03And the passion and that drama and the nonstop interest fuels their interest in
06:11the sport at large.
06:12So you've got to have a team that you get behind.
06:14And I think the NFL recognizes that may be the way to finally break through,
06:18to give these communities beyond our borders a reason to become very passionate
06:24about supporting their team and, in turn, consuming everything they can about the NFL.
06:29Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk.
06:31How surprised were you in 2026 that the Bills had as many issues with sight lines at their
06:36stadium than they did?
06:37Because as the commanders get ready to put shovels in the ground here in D.C.,
06:42you can imagine in town our eyes were on that story.
06:45Well, and the way that the architect of the stadium explains it, this was always part of
06:51the plan because they wanted to construct a stadium that got the crowd as close as possible
06:58to the field, in part to generate maximum noise that will enhance the home field advantage
07:05that the Bills will have in that new stadium.
07:07And I think the problem is, and this is why they've agreed to address the concerns raised
07:12by the fans, starting with the first practice they had in that stadium last Saturday night,
07:18the week before the preseason opener.
07:20They're going to look at every one of these concerns because when you sell the PSL through
07:24a virtual product that gives the people an idea of what the seat is going to look like
07:29and then they show up and it possibly looks very different because there's a big plexiglass
07:36panel and a railing in the way because the stairs are all pressed together with seats, that's
07:43when you have a problem.
07:44That's when you open yourself up to a potential claim that you sold me something that is very
07:48different from what I agreed to buy when I bought this 30-year PSL that gets attached
07:53to the price I have to pay for season tickets every year.
07:56So, you know, they downplayed it by saying it was less than 1% of the total PSL account
08:01holders, but one of the reporters in Buffalo said it affects about 500 seats.
08:05That's a lot.
08:06That's a lot.
08:07And they need to clean that up and clear that up, especially if they knew all along it was
08:11going to be an issue.
08:12And it's almost like they hoped it wouldn't become a big deal.
08:16But for those 500 people who showed up and sat down and were staring right at a railing
08:22or a big plexiglass sheet, it becomes an issue.
08:25Yeah.
08:26So let's say you do buy their numbers.
08:28Like if it's 1%, then maybe it's 50 people.
08:30Oh my God, 50 people are looking at railings.
08:33I got at your corner behind obstructions.
08:35It just, it really is unfathomable, especially with, with how, you know, boisterous the state
08:41was to say, yep, let's make sure we, you know, we're paying for this.
08:44That's, that's kind of the part that I wouldn't be able to, that wouldn't sit well with me
08:47if, if I was a bills fan there.
08:48Is there anything that New York state can do about it?
08:51Well, it's too late now.
08:52The stadium is built.
08:53They just need to take care of the people who have the concerns.
08:55And here's the reality.
08:57If you were, if you disclose this ahead of time and you price the seats accordingly, somebody's
09:02going to buy it, right?
09:03You know, they've got seats that, and there was one example, the AP writer up there found
09:08what he called the worst seat in the house.
09:09And you couldn't see the far end of the stadium, they're never going to sell that seat for
09:13football.
09:14They say that'll be available.
09:15If there's a concert where the stage is at the end of the structure where you can actually
09:20see what's going on, but there's somebody who's going to pay whatever the price is.
09:23You set the right price point.
09:25Somebody's going to pay to be part of the experience.
09:27They're going to pay to get there.
09:28The worst seat in the house is better than the best seat, not in the house.
09:32So I think it all comes down to acknowledging to yourself and to your customers that there
09:38is going to be a sightline issue, disclosing it, setting a price that makes it fair, and
09:43somebody's going to pay for it.
09:45Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk on Grant and Danny.
09:49Mike, as you can imagine here in the district, we've been talking a lot about Jaden Daniels
09:53being at odds with LSU over the last several days.
09:56I'm curious how you would have handled it differently if you were Daniels' camp.
10:02There are certain points where you just have to take the high road, and you just have to
10:06let something go, even if you're upset about it.
10:08I'll give you an example.
10:10Back when Jerry Rice was still playing and he signed with the Seahawks, he wanted to wear
10:14number 80.
10:15Number 80 is his number.
10:16That's the number he's always worn.
10:17Well, they've retired that number for Steve Largent.
10:19Steve Largent now, years after the fact, tells a funny story about how he never agreed
10:25to let his number be unretired.
10:27But next thing you know, he's agreed to let Jerry Rice wear number 80.
10:32And what did Steve Largent do about it?
10:34He did absolutely nothing.
10:35There's a point where you just have to accept the fact that nothing good comes from taking
10:40a position that some people will regard as petty and standing in the way of whatever
10:47the team is trying to do moving forward.
10:48Now, it's the team's fault always if they retire a number and then they unretire it.
10:53In the Daniels' situation, I think all flows to Brian Kelly.
10:57He made multiple promises that couldn't be kept because they conflict with each other.
11:01He smoothed it over last year, as smooth as he possibly could, by telling the guy that
11:06was issued number five that it's going to be number three instead.
11:09And now Lane Kiffin, he doesn't care.
11:11He wants his guy to stick around.
11:14And I guess that and I've heard rumblings, DJ Pickett was just going to leave if they didn't
11:18give him number five this year.
11:20So it's an LSU problem.
11:24But when you react to it, and in this case, it was an overreaction when you look at the
11:28letter from the lawyers and the statement that was issued by the camp, you just can't
11:32do that.
11:32You just have to lump it and move on.
11:34There's nothing that's going to come from it to your benefit.
11:37And if anything, if you say nothing, and then all of a sudden a guy's wearing number
11:42five, that's when others will say, hey, didn't they promise that to Jaden Daniels?
11:46And then the blowback's only going to hit LSU.
11:48When you're the one that comes out strong against it, you're just opening the door to
11:52get dragged.
11:53And look at how he's been dragged.
11:55I mean, he's never going to get past this.
11:57And it's been something that's been poked fun at by baseball teams, soccer teams, you
12:05name it.
12:06It's everywhere.
12:06And I don't think it's going to go away anytime soon.
12:09It's going to last well past the point that it's funny and everybody's getting in on it.
12:12So it's a valuable lesson to any other person who had a number retired for them officially
12:18or unofficially.
12:19When that thing gets reissued, your best play is to not say a word.
12:22From your law background, from the cease and desist standpoint, I'm wondering about the
12:28180-day period on using his NIL.
12:32I guess if that's in writing, that's winnable from his standpoint, right?
12:37Because there have been a lot of guys that have gone after schools after the fact and lost
12:41that would seem to me, after you've been somewhere and you've gotten millions from
12:45a program, they've got to be able to use your name, image, and likeness.
12:49But I guess that's just from when you were there.
12:51And then after 180 days, they can't use your highlights from your big performance against
12:56the Bengals on screen?
12:57How does that work?
12:59Hey, this all started.
13:01This whole NIL thing got rolling because of Ed O'Bannon suing EA Sports over his name,
13:09image, and likeness being used in the college basketball game that was out at the time.
13:16And I don't even think they've brought that back yet.
13:18And that was the thing where people first realized that there's a path to getting players
13:23paid through their name, image, and likeness.
13:26And it was just one domino after another that culminated in the entire college sports
13:30system being blown up and being exposed to the widespread antitrust violation that it
13:35is.
13:35And everything the NCAA does is an antitrust violation.
13:39So if you're not compensating someone after the fact, and it all comes down to what the
13:46contracts say and what the contract law is in the various states, and it may be ultimately
13:51toothless.
13:52It's all that maybe he had in order to push back.
13:55It was a way to manifest his frustration.
13:58So I don't know, and I haven't researched how Louisiana law would apply to this or how
14:05federal law would get involved.
14:07I just think it was a way to vent, and it was a way to just make it clear they
14:11weren't
14:12happy, and it was something tangible they could do to fight back when they felt like
14:15they'd been lied to, and they had been lied to.
14:17But again, you've got to be careful about that reaction, because if you overreact or if
14:21you react at all, you're opening yourself up to criticism.
14:24Mike, I'd ask you, what's the latest with Terry and Arnold's, his saga and the Seahawks
14:29flirtation that's kind of been, I'm surprised, frankly, it's been documented as it has on
14:33Hard Knocks.
14:34Even mentioning that just seems to open up a whole series of questions.
14:37What's going on there?
14:38None of this makes any sense.
14:40Look, if Terry and Arnold was good enough to justify keeping him around while these eight
14:47felony charges arising from an alleged armed robbery and kidnapping, which apparently
14:51happened.
14:52The question is, was Terry and Arnold involved in it?
14:55There was property stolen from a house he rented in Florida, and a group of people took
14:59matters into their own hands and went and tried to seize the stuff back, and it turns
15:04out the people that they targeted didn't even steal the stuff.
15:07It just sounds like a plot line from a Fargo series.
15:10But the fact that the Lions cut him, you know, that's the ultimate litmus test.
15:15Like, they've known him for two years.
15:17They know what he can do, and they cut him once this hit the fan, and I was surprised
15:21anybody was interested in him.
15:22But, you know, what happens is people fall back on their evaluation of a player coming
15:26out of school, and, you know, you can make the argument, well, Arnold didn't fit in the
15:30Lions defense.
15:31Maybe he'll fit better in a different defense.
15:33It's more premised on zone, yada, yada.
15:35But I knew all along there was a risk he's going to be put on the commissioner exempt list
15:39if and when he's on a team.
15:40And lo and behold, that's now coming out.
15:43And I don't know if the Seahawks misjudged it.
15:45On last week's Hard Knocks, the GM, John Schneider, was telling the coach that they believe he's
15:49going to be allowed to play in the preseason.
15:51Well, now it's coming out.
15:52No, he's going straight on the commissioner exempt list.
15:54So why are you paying somebody to be on your team?
15:57Why are you devoting salary cap space to that player?
16:00Even if it's the minimum salary, why are you doing that for a guy who can't play?
16:04Why not wait until he gets, if he gets, clearance to return to the NFL unaffected by these charges?
16:12So it just is weird to me.
16:14And the fact that Mike McDonald, the coach of the team, had been kind of equivocal in
16:20things he said last week.
16:21And now, I don't know if they're looking for an off-ramp from this.
16:24I don't know if they just misplayed their hand.
16:26And hovering over all of it is they got a new owner who's due to be approved next Wednesday.
16:31It's really not the kind of first impression you want to make.
16:34You don't want to come off as bumbling when a new owner is rolling up to assess everything.
16:39Even though they've just won the Super Bowl, a new owner is going to be paying attention.
16:43And this just seems like an unforced error by the Seahawks.
16:46It just makes no sense whatsoever for them to do this at a time when he's not going to
16:51be available to them.
16:52All he can do is attend meetings.
16:53He's not going to be able to practice.
16:55He's not going to be able to play.
16:56And there's no guarantee he's ever going to be able to practice and play until he gets
16:59this legal issue behind him.
17:01I didn't even think about the new owner element.
17:03That's an interesting layer.
17:04Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk.
17:06We'll let you go.
17:07Tell us, though, what you got coming up.
17:09I know it's the one-year anniversary of the book as well.
17:11Yeah, Big Shield's available actually for free today.
17:14Today's the one-year anniversary when it came out last year.
17:1799-cent e-book.
17:18Not the print edition.
17:19That's not free.
17:20Paper ain't cheap.
17:21But the e-book for 90, you can get it for nothing today.
17:26And we've got a few other things in the pipeline that are coming up.
17:29You know, the writing for me now, six years, it's just become the balance to the nonstop
17:34every day.
17:35And anybody who's worked in newspapers knows this.
17:38Like, everything you write today, by tomorrow, it doesn't mean anything.
17:40Everything you write tomorrow, by the next day, it doesn't mean anything.
17:42So I stumbled into a world where you can write something, if anyone ever does read it, they
17:47don't have to read it today.
17:48They can read it next week.
17:50They can read it next year.
17:51They can read it in 10 years.
17:53And it's a nice, refreshing break from this nonstop assembly line of covering the NFL,
17:58where it is content, content, content, every day, every day, every day.
18:02And we appreciate it in this business, as I'm sure you do, because it gives us plenty of
18:05stuff to talk about and write about.
18:07That's amazing.
18:07I don't know how you have the battery for it.
18:09It's incredible.
18:09It really is prolific that you're able to do it, Mike.
18:11I appreciate you, as always, man.
18:13Thanks, guys.
18:14Be good.
18:15There's Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk, the quickest hanger-upper in the game.
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