00:01It's really hard to know how to feel about it because we don't have any detail.
00:06They say the first step to solving any problem is identifying it and acknowledging it.
00:13So I'm glad we've taken the first step.
00:15But all we've heard is we want to solve a problem.
00:19We haven't heard how they intend to solve it.
00:23And I'm actually concerned even that they don't quite understand what the problem is.
00:27The problem is not just with people who are convicted.
00:31I mean, in both the Sylvani and Ralph Carr cases, we had two and three years respectively where
00:38there was complete secrecy over the identities of these people.
00:42So it's not just about when someone is convicted.
00:45That only lasted a few days.
00:47That's not the real problem.
00:49The problem is from start to finish, there should be openness and transparency.
00:53And there absolutely isn't in Victoria.
00:55Yeah.
00:56And that's your view on both the Labor and the opposition statements on this so far,
01:01is it?
01:02They're just both lacking a bit of detail?
01:04Well, look, the opposition statement is even less detailed.
01:11It just talked about the public's outrage.
01:13And I think James Newbury, the Shadow Attorney General said, he shares the public's outrage
01:19and we will fix it, is effectively what he said.
01:22At least Labor had something about it.
01:26But I must say I was concerned when I saw the press release today because it completely
01:31seemed to miss the issue.
01:33It talked about making sure the heading was unmasking convicted rapists.
01:48This year, there are more suppression orders in Victoria than in all the other states combined.
01:55Now, just think about that.
01:57More suppression orders in Victoria than all the other states combined.
02:00Now, if there were more road rage, sorry, more road deaths in Victoria than in all the
02:06other states combined, there'd be absolute outrage here.
02:09And we'd be changing the road laws immediately.
02:12But I don't think people quite realise what's actually going on.
02:17And certainly the press release from the government today suggested to me they don't quite get
02:22it.
02:22They were a little bit better when they did the press conference, the doorstop.
02:26The Attorney General, Sonia Kilkenny, had obviously been briefed and she talked about
02:30accused people, not just convicted rapists.
02:33But still, it was concerning.
02:34And so, as you understand it, at what stage in the legal process will the accused be named
02:40or is that that's kind of at the heart of your concerns about this?
02:43Look, the system has always been and is in all the other states that an accused is named
02:49from day dot.
02:51And you should only get, you should only get a suppression order in the most rare of success
02:57circumstances and with evidence and good reason and only when it's necessary.
03:02And so that is still supposedly the case.
03:06Now, what has happened, though, is really two things.
03:09One, we've had a lot of defendants using this mental well-being angle.
03:15It was never, the safety ground for making suppression order was never designed to protect someone
03:20who says, look, my mental well-being will be impacted if you identify me.
03:24But that's what's being happened.
03:26So we've had a whole heap of suppression orders using that ground.
03:29And that was the ground in both the Sylvani and the Carr cases.
03:33And then what's also happening on top of that, it's just this cultural issue and shift, both
03:40with Victorian criminal barristers and, I think, with magistrates and judges, where it's almost
03:47it's one of the things that you think about whenever you interview a prospective client
03:52or whether you have a defendant in front of you, do they need a suppression order?
03:56And, of course, if you ask anyone whether they're charged with murder, rape or drink
04:00driving, if you ask them, would you rather your name not be in the newspaper or on tonight's
04:03news, we all know what the answer is going to be.
04:06It's going to be, no, I don't want it on tonight's news.
04:08So I think there's a cultural issue.
04:10Yeah.
04:10And so how has that culture evolved in the Victorian legal system?
04:15And it's not really particularly recent, is it?
04:18No, look, no, it's not that recent.
04:20Look, I've been doing this job now for 29 years.
04:23This has been a staple area of my practice for that time.
04:27I think I might have done more suppression orders than anyone else in the country.
04:31Certainly I've done hundreds, if not maybe over a thousand suppression order hearings
04:37and opposed, always opposing them.
04:41My little theory on it is that there was a time, of course, when the gangland war happened
04:46in Victoria, and I'm talking sort of around the early 2000s, when there were cases crossing
04:51over each other.
04:52There were people literally being shot in the street.
04:55There were informers flipping and giving evidence for the police.
04:58And in those cases, the safety ground was very much justified.
05:03And I think what happened was there, that got in the psyche of judges and barristers.
05:09And it became almost something barristers asked their clients.
05:12And as I say, they're all going to say, yeah, I want my name suppressed.
05:15Yeah.
05:16Okay.
05:16So you'd like to see a lot more detail on this before it's finalised.
05:20We'll hear more after the election, I guess.
05:22But are there any other changes to Victorian laws that should be made in order to make a
05:26more open justice system?
05:28I should say, you're right, we will hear more of it after the election.
05:32But I hope that both parties put forward what it is they will do, because that's the only
05:37way people can actually decide this election on this particular issue, is to know what
05:42is proposed to be done.
05:43In terms of other things that can and should be done, I mean, look, 50 years ago, even 30
05:49years ago, all evidence and police summaries and what have you, cases were conducted orally.
05:54Documents weren't used anywhere near as much as they are now.
05:57Now, just about all the evidence is in a hand-up brief and it goes up to the judge and
06:03cases
06:03are conducted in a much more document-heavy manner.
06:07That means the journalists sitting at the back of the courtroom can't really follow it if
06:12they don't have access to the documents.
06:14And that means the public can't follow it if the journalists can't follow it.
06:18So I think there needs to be greater access to documents and we need to move our judicial
06:23system into 2026 and beyond and not be operating with laws for a system that existed 50, 30, 40
06:32years ago.
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