Trump PANICS as DEFIANCE Mission Launches | Scott Goodstein

Name: Trump PANICS as DEFIANCE Mission Launches | Scott Goodstein
Uploaded: 2026-08-10T13:46:10+00:00
Duration: 1 h 21 min 23 s
Channel: Scott Goodstein
Description: Trump's pressure on our troops MUST BE STOPPED. DEFIANCE members are joined by expert panelists and organizations delivering real measures to support our military in DEFYING Trump.

00:00:02This is Defiance Daily, Dispatches for the Defiant.

00:00:05Hello, I am your host, Miles Taylor, and as always, Wednesday is a special day.

00:00:11This is our weekly mission briefing.

00:00:13This is the day of the week where we talk about real actions we are taking.

00:00:17This is the day where we take doom scrolling and we put it to the side for a little bit

00:00:21and we talk about real, actual, concrete things we can do and you can do

00:00:25to push back against abuses of power and the lawlessness that we are seeing in our country.

00:00:32Now, that doesn't mean we're going to not talk about the news because we're going to do that first.

00:00:35We're going to talk about why this week's mission is so important,

00:00:39and our first panel will discuss that.

00:00:41But our focus today, our focus this week is on illegal orders.

00:00:46Our focus is on this controversy that has been bubbling up in Washington

00:00:52about the potential that members of the military are on the receiving end of manifestly unlawful orders.

00:00:59A lot of concern about this on Capitol Hill.

00:01:02A lot of concern about this in the mid to lower ranks inside the Pentagon.

00:01:06And so we're going to discuss that today.

00:01:08And first, we'll do that on a panel where we have special guests.

00:01:11We will be joined by former Republican Congressman Denver Riggleman.

00:01:15We will be joined by the incredible Glenn Kirshner, backed by popular demand, by the way.

00:01:21So many Defiance.org members wanted to see Glenn again, and we are thrilled to have him.

00:01:25And we'll also be joined by Seneca Project founder and former Lincoln Project senior advisor, Tara Setmeyer.

00:01:33And then after that, we've got a conversation with the team that's going to be working with Defiance.org

00:01:40to go and implement the campaign that we announced yesterday,

00:01:44but which we're going to give you the full details on today.

00:01:47We will also be joined by Scott Goodstein, Barack Obama's former social media guy,

00:01:52to talk about how we are going to raise public awareness across the country

00:01:56to make sure U.S. service members know their rights and have access to legal resources if they need it.

00:02:04And then you will get reminded why this program every Wednesday turns into Pro-Democracy Oprah,

00:02:11because we will make an announcement.

00:02:13And if you already thought that we put it all out there, well, we didn't yet.

00:02:17There's still more to tell you about this campaign than we've put out publicly,

00:02:21so stay tuned for that later in the program.

00:02:25And finally, our daily segment, Who is Joining the Defiance?

00:02:30We have another surprise today.

00:02:31I did not think this was going to be a name I would utter in the same sentence as the

00:02:36word defiance,

00:02:37at least not in a good way.

00:02:38But here we are.

00:02:41Well, then finally, finally, we'll talk a little bit more about the president's speech tonight.

00:02:46And if you want to stay up late with us, you can.

00:02:49The president is scheduled to make an address to the nation in the Oval Office at 9 p.m. Eastern.

00:02:54We will be covering that live and then afterwards assessing the speech.

00:03:00So if you want to join us later for a special edition of Defiance Daily,

00:03:04you can do that tonight during the president's speech and afterwards.

00:03:08Okay, first, let me take us into what we do at the top end of this program every Wednesday.

00:03:13What is the defiance win of the week?

00:03:16And I will tell you this, as the deadline narrows to extend the Affordable Care Act subsidies,

00:03:22right, these are the health care insurance subsidies everyone's been worried about.

00:03:26You, me, anyone who has health care and doesn't want to see that check jump at the top of the

00:03:32year.

00:03:33Well, here's what happened today.

00:03:34Speaker Mike Johnson was hit from inside his own party with defiance.

00:03:41CBS News tells the story.

00:03:43Breaking news at this hour, in defiance of Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson,

00:03:48four Republicans signed on to a Democrat petition to force a vote on extending Affordable Care Act tax credits set

00:03:54to expire January 1.

00:03:56Check your watch, everybody.

00:03:57That's very soon.

00:03:58Once that happens, that expiration, without a deal in Congress,

00:04:01health care premiums for millions of Americans are expected to do this, go way up.

00:04:06Last night, a House committee moved to vote on a GOP health care plan that excluded those Affordable Care Act

00:04:11credits.

00:04:11Well, today's move likely sets up a vote on an ACA extension, at least kicking the can down the road

00:04:17to early January.

00:04:18One of those defying House Speaker Mike Johnson is New York Republican Mike Lawler.

00:04:23Here's what he had to say on the takeout last night on GOP efforts to stop the extension vote.

00:04:30It's idiotic and it's political malpractice.

00:04:33To me, this is the height of absurdity.

00:04:36It is precisely why things don't get done in this place, because people would rather the upper hand or the

00:04:42issue or the political win rather than the hard work of bipartisan compromise.

00:04:48So let me give you the details here, folks.

00:04:50There are four Republicans who broke with GOP leadership.

00:04:53One was Mike Lawler of New York.

00:04:55You just saw him in the clip.

00:04:56Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania.

00:04:58Rob Bresnahan of Pennsylvania.

00:05:00And Ryan McKenzie of Pennsylvania.

00:05:02There's some defiance in the water there in Pennsylvania.

00:05:04And yesterday, Speaker Mike Johnson admitted that about a dozen Republicans wanted a vote, even though he refused to allow

00:05:13one.

00:05:13Now, here's the reality check. While this move does give Democrats the votes needed to force an action, the vote

00:05:19will likely not take place before Congress adjourns for the two week holiday recess.

00:05:24That's not good news for you and me and anyone else who's worried about those subsidies.

00:05:28House rules require seven legislative days before a discharge petition like this can happen.

00:05:33So this isn't going to go anywhere until the new year, and it's not going to go anywhere before those

00:05:38subsidies expire.

00:05:39However, what I will say is the takeaway here is that we're not doomed because the Republican Party under Donald

00:05:48Trump says that they don't want to do anything on health care and they don't want to vote.

00:05:52There are enough defiant members still in that caucus speaking out and willing to do something.

00:05:58And as I noted, Lawler isn't the only one who's doing that speaking out.

00:06:02Brian Fitzpatrick told reporters this today in responding to the news.

00:06:05Unfortunately, he said it is House leadership themselves that have forced this outcome.

00:06:12It's pretty extraordinary right now in Donald Trump's Washington, where Republican leaders see themselves as Darth Vader with a vice

00:06:18like chokehold on their party members to have those party members break, break ranks and call them out.

00:06:25Now, Lawler and Johnson were seen today in what seemed to be a heated argument on the floor.

00:06:29And upon his exit from the floor, the press swarmed Speaker Johnson.

00:06:33And this is what he had to say.

00:06:35Have you lost control of the House?

00:06:37I have not lost control.

00:06:38Because this is the third time.

00:06:40There are, look, we have the smallest majority in U.S. history.

00:06:45These are not normal times.

00:06:47There are processes and procedures in the House that are less frequently used when there are larger majorities.

00:06:54So when you have the luxury of having 10 or 15 people who disagree on something, you know, you don't

00:07:00have to deal with it.

00:07:02I have not lost control of the House.

00:07:05That's the type of quote you say when you have lost control of the House.

00:07:09But we'll get to that another time.

00:07:11Anyway, the defiance win of the week is that we are seeing Republican members of Congress break ranks, stand up

00:07:18for what's right and force the issue.

00:07:21Okay, folks, that takes us into our conversation today about the weekly mission.

00:07:28And our weekly mission is focused on this campaign that Defiance.org is going to be launching with our partners

00:07:34at WhistleblowerAid.org.

00:07:36That campaign is called Obey Only Lawful Orders.

00:07:39We're going to give you the details on that in a little bit.

00:07:42But first, I want to talk about the latest with the boat strike controversy because this is what prompted all

00:07:49of this.

00:07:49This is what prompted us to think about what could we do in response to the president's efforts to intimidate

00:07:55service members, to get them to shut up, to get them to be afraid of exposing the possibility of manifestly

00:08:03illegal conduct.

00:08:04And we decided on this campaign.

00:08:06And that controversy that led to this only gets worse.

00:08:10And I want to talk about that today with our guests.

00:08:13First, let me bring in Denver Riggleman, former Republican congressman.

00:08:17This man knows a thing or two about being a defiant Republican member of Congress.

00:08:21Denver, I assume you had some flashbacks as you saw that first segment.

00:08:25I did.

00:08:26You know, I know Brian pretty well, Fitzpatrick.

00:08:29So it was pretty incredible to see that.

00:08:30But again, he's got to win, right?

00:08:32So stupidity is terminal.

00:08:34And I think that Mike Johnson's finding out pretty quick.

00:08:37Well, it looks like they've gotten a little bit of courage through osmosis with you as their friend, Denver.

00:08:43Let's also bring in Glenn Kirshner, former federal prosecutor, just a total rock star.

00:08:51And I got to tell you, I wasn't sure if I was going to say this right at the top

00:08:54end.

00:08:55But Glenn is responsible in large part for what we're going to be talking about today, because a few weeks

00:09:01ago, you may remember Glenn seeded this idea in our minds about doing something on this issue.

00:09:07of unlawful orders.

00:09:10So, you know, Glenn, I don't know if you're going to want to take credit or not, but here we

00:09:13are.

00:09:14You know what?

00:09:14I will take credit for anything that helps service members navigate the dangerous circumstances that the Trump administration is putting

00:09:22them in.

00:09:24And so I'm all in giving accurate information to our service members to keep them from getting jammed up.

00:09:32Because, Miles, and as Denver well knows, if you disobey what turns out to be a lawful order, you could

00:09:38be court-martialed.

00:09:39If you obey what turns out to be an unlawful order, you can be court-martialed.

00:09:44I know because I was an active-duty Army JAG prosecutor for six and a half years before joining the

00:09:50Department of Justice.

00:09:51This is to help service members avoid getting themselves in trouble, because the Trump administration is endangering our military members.

00:10:01There you have it, folks.

00:10:02Well, you know, Glenn, you're going to get more than a participation trophy from us for all of that.

00:10:07Let me also bring in our third guest, Tara Setmeyer, founder of the Seneca Project.

00:10:12Hello, my friend.

00:10:13How are you?

00:10:13Gosh, you always just have the most delightful, festive holiday setup there.

00:10:17Look at that.

00:10:17You make Denver look like a total slop tart.

00:10:20Thanks a lot, Miles.

00:10:22Oh, my gosh.

00:10:23Well, I love Denver, and he could never be such things.

00:10:27But thank you.

00:10:28Listen, we all need a little holiday cheer.

00:10:31It's been a tough year.

00:10:32It's been a tough holiday season.

00:10:34And I'm always here to bring a bit of a bright spot to that.

00:10:37I love it.

00:10:38It's great to have you guys.

00:10:39And we're actually going to expand this group.

00:10:41This is going to be like the new Fox 5, because we've got one more person to add in, because

00:10:45of scheduled conflicts on our end.

00:10:47We're welcoming the remarkable Andrew Bacay, former CIA officer, former intelligence officer, world-class lawyer, whistleblower attorney, and a guy

00:10:56who knows what it means to defend people who want to stand up for what's right.

00:11:00Andrew, welcome, and thank you for joining us, my friend.

00:11:02Thank you for having me on.

00:11:04This is a pleasant surprise.

00:11:05Guys, some of my favorite people are all on screen together.

00:11:08Yeah, it just kind of happens, you know?

00:11:09We should just leave while we're ahead.

00:11:11What a great panel, guys.

00:11:12This was fantastic.

00:11:13Thank you for joining us today.

00:11:15This was fantastic.

00:11:17Let's jump in.

00:11:17Look, Denver, I'm going to start with you, because I'll play this clip first, and I want your reaction on

00:11:22the back end.

00:11:23This is what Pete Hegseth had to say about all of the controversy around the boat strikes and this strike

00:11:29on September 2nd, and the video, the video of that second strike that's been so debated, where it allegedly shows

00:11:37two people on an overturned boat, unarmed, probably trying to save their own lives before they're hit with another airstrike.

00:11:44And here's what Pete Hegseth had to say about why they can't release that video to the public.

00:11:48We're also going to, tomorrow, allow the Hask and Sask to see the unedited video of the September 2nd, alongside

00:11:56with Admiral Bradley, who has done a fantastic job, has made all the right calls, and we're glad he'll be

00:12:01there to do it.

00:12:02But in keeping with longstanding Department of War policy, Department of Defense policy, of course, we're not going to release

00:12:09a top-secret, full, unedited video of that to the general public.

00:12:14Hask and Sask and appropriate committees will see it, but not the general public.

00:12:25Denver, why are they hiding the ball?

00:12:28Well, let me tell you.

00:12:29First of all, you know, maybe they should be on signal chat.

00:12:32We'd figure it all out right now.

00:12:33But I think the real issue that I have with all this, Miles, and I'll be honest, is that I

00:12:38was on the other end.

00:12:39It's incredible to have this panel, especially JAG officers, intelligence.

00:12:44You know, Tara, I don't know if you know, she has a long history in government service.

00:12:47But I was the one, you know, a week after 9-11, I had to deploy to Diego Garcia with

00:12:51the B-1s and the B-52s.

00:12:53And I did the mission planning with the JAG over my shoulder.

00:12:56And even after 9-11, we were able to, you know, literally do legal things.

00:13:02And, of course, we were very angry.

00:13:04But looking at collateral damage, you're looking at rainbow patterns and frag patterns for bombs, whatever type of bombs they

00:13:09are.

00:13:10I find it amazing when Hegseth comes on there and says he actually can't declassify when they've showed all these

00:13:15other videos.

00:13:16And my guess is this, they can declassify it.

00:13:19I wonder what kind of ordinance they used as a dump target type of ordinance.

00:13:22Let me explain this, Miles.

00:13:23So at the beginning, you have specific types of ordinance you're going to lay down on a target.

00:13:27If they're doing a come around, right, they have to get, they have ROE, or they have to get permission

00:13:31in order to engage that target.

00:13:33And I'm wondering if they're not showing it because the engagement of that target would show the helplessness of the

00:13:37individuals,

00:13:38because it's very easy to redact or to blur out the specific type of weaponry or what they're looking at

00:13:44specifically on their HUD,

00:13:45their heads-up display, or actually on their targeting platform.

00:13:48So, you know, I'm sorry I got a little bit technical there, Miles, but that's the issue that I have

00:13:51with this.

00:13:52And, of course, you get that.

00:13:54And if you can show the other strikes, there's no other reason not to show this strike unless there's some

00:13:59really bad stuff in it.

00:14:00And I know that's a technical term, the really bad stuff.

00:14:02But as a mission planner and somebody who knows ordinance, I have to tell you, I think the reason they're

00:14:07not shown isn't because of classification,

00:14:09because it's, I would say it's because of the horror of what the American people would witness.

00:14:13Well, we got a JAG here with us.

00:14:15You know, Glenn, what do you make of Denver's assessment and speculation about why they might not be doing this?

00:14:22Yeah, a couple of things.

00:14:24So I think it is the horror.

00:14:26I think they understand that it will galvanize, you know, the opposition.

00:14:31And the opposition are people who are against not just homicide, but murder.

00:14:37Homicide is simply death at the hands of another.

00:14:40It doesn't connote criminal conduct.

00:14:42But what they did in international waters is murder.

00:14:45And I'm only sorry that we're getting distracted by the second tap, the so-called second tap, because all of

00:14:51the first taps were murder as well.

00:14:53There are military experts that we may be getting into that when we talk about your new project here, Miles.

00:14:59But, you know, guys like Dan Maurer, who taught constitutional law and criminal law at West Point.

00:15:05He's currently a law professor.

00:15:06Guys like Frank Rosenblatt, the president of the National Institute of Military Justice.

00:15:11I mean, when you talk to the experts in this area, there is no lawful justification under domestic law, international

00:15:19law, the law of war, the law of armed conflict, which this ain't.

00:15:23There's no justification for it.

00:15:25So when Pete Hegseth, you know, releases every damn video that looks like a video game where they're blowing, you

00:15:32know, boats out of the water, but you don't see the carnage.

00:15:35You don't see the human suffering.

00:15:37So, you know, maybe the murder isn't front and center.

00:15:41And then when he has one where I suspect the murder is front and center, he makes up reasons.

00:15:46I don't believe a word that comes out of Pete Hegseth's mouth.

00:15:49But the other thing that Denver said is when when he was engaged in, you know, war planning, he had

00:15:54the Jags, you know, standing, you know, shoulder to shoulder with him to make sure we were doing it lawfully.

00:16:00And, you know, what what has Pete Hegseth said?

00:16:03He doesn't want the Jags anywhere near military operations because they're obstacles, they're impediments to his maximum lethality.

00:16:13The problem is Hegseth wants maximum lethality with minimum legality or no legality at all.

00:16:20He's doing a disservice not only to the people that he's murdering, ordered murdered in international waters, but he's endangering

00:16:27our troops in the process.

00:16:29Well, so, Tara, I've got a question for you in a second.

00:16:32I want to show you a clip of one of the center senators who's seen the video and get your

00:16:36reaction to it.

00:16:37But but first, Andrew Bakai, I want to throw a question to you, which is that amidst all of this,

00:16:44Donald Trump's response has been threats and intimidation truly at a level that we've never seen from an American president.

00:16:52We've never, ever in the history of the republic seen an American president sit there and accuse sitting U.S.

00:17:00senators and congressmen of sedition and that they should be hanged simply because they restated the law.

00:17:07They just restated something written in the law and now that's happened and it's created this quite extraordinary chilling effect.

00:17:14I want to know how you assess that chilling effect.

00:17:17I mean, you are on the front lines of representing whistleblowers.

00:17:20You yourself have been a whistleblower.

00:17:22You have served in government.

00:17:23Is this making people afraid to come forward and sound the alarm about potentially illegal conduct?

00:17:30I think the answer is probably yes and no.

00:17:33I mean, first, Donald Trump is all bluster.

00:17:36We see that he attacks people, personally attacks people online, in the press, in speeches.

00:17:45That's who he is.

00:17:47But when when when it comes down to it, he's he's more bark than bite.

00:17:52With respect to the chilling effect of the whistleblowers coming forward, I have to say that we've actually seen a

00:17:57lot of whistleblowers come forward.

00:17:59And more importantly, we've seen senior officials come forward because the because that's effectively who's left in the government now.

00:18:07Right. I mean, he has terminated.

00:18:09He's fired a ton of federal employees.

00:18:14The the one thing that I will say that we've seen is that, you know, this is where we're trying

00:18:18to mitigate the fear is that there is a way for whistleblowers to come forward anonymously.

00:18:23So, you know, in the past, and I've done this in the Ukraine whistleblower matter, is that we've been able

00:18:28to protect the identity of the whistleblower.

00:18:30So that way they don't face retribution, whether it is through adverse personnel actions or being doxed online.

00:18:39So, for example, I've recently been able to facilitate disclosures to various offices, both in the executive branch and to

00:18:49Capitol Hill, where I'm the relator of the information.

00:18:52And if there needs to be clarifying, you know, evidence being produced, the congressional offices or the investigators can reach

00:19:02out to me and I can facilitate that information.

00:19:04So there is a way for people to come forward lawfully and in a secure way.

00:19:10And I will say, look, you know, there's the old adage where there's smoke, there's fire, and there is a

00:19:17whole lot of fire somewhere here in this administration.

00:19:19We are seeing so many indications of illegality and y'all, Andrew, are the firefighters at whistleblower aid.

00:19:28And so you're the ones who respond and you do that in a very disciplined way that protects people, as

00:19:33you noted.

00:19:34I want to get back to that in a moment.

00:19:35But first, Tara, like I said, I want to play this clip because Senator Tammy Duckworth has seen this video.

00:19:42None of us here have seen the video.

00:19:43We've only heard the speculation.

00:19:45She has seen the video of that strike.

00:19:48And here's what she had to say yesterday.

00:19:51Joining us, Illinois Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth.

00:19:54Duckworth is a member of both the armed services and the foreign affairs committees.

00:19:59Thank you very much for joining us, Senator.

00:20:01Can you give us a rundown on what you heard today?

00:20:06Well, I heard a lot of chest-thumping, but not a lot of answers to the questions that I still

00:20:11have.

00:20:12And I would have to agree with the discussion you're having right now, which is I think the president is

00:20:17trying to lead us into yet another forever war that Americans don't want.

00:20:20If this is justifiable, then come to Congress.

00:20:23We have the power to declare a war.

00:20:26Come to us and ask for an authorization for use of military force.

00:20:29The fact of the matter is they're not doing that.

00:20:32And if they truly were going to go after drug traffickers and the president would not have pardoned the former

00:20:37president of Honduras who trafficked over 400 tons of cocaine into the United States.

00:20:42So what exactly is he trying to do here?

00:20:45So Duckworth there, of course, talking about how these strikes are being used as a partial predicate predicate to escalate

00:20:53things in Venezuela and lead us to war.

00:20:55Duckworth also, Tara, later in the day came out and said, based on what she has seen, these orders look

00:21:04to her to be illegal.

00:21:06What she saw in that video looks illegal.

00:21:08And then, Tara, we saw Senator Chris Murphy from Connecticut come out and say the same thing.

00:21:15He said, based on what I have seen, this looks like it's unlawful.

00:21:19We saw Ed Markey say the same thing.

00:21:21We saw Senator Richard Blumenthal basically say the same thing.

00:21:24I mean, senator after senator, congressman after congressman is coming forward and saying, look, I'm getting brief behind closed doors

00:21:30and looks like an awful lot of lawbreaking here.

00:21:33Do you think this is going to boil over to the point that the public is going to be able

00:21:39to see this?

00:21:41Well, first of all, I want to acknowledge that Senator Duckworth is an American hero who lost her legs in

00:21:48combat as a helicopter pilot, Purple Heart recipient, and is more of a warrior and exhibits the warrior ethos than

00:21:57cosplaying G.I.

00:21:58Joe wannabe Pete Hegseth any day.

00:22:01So I'm going to take her word and what she saw and her perspective over Pete Hegseth's.

00:22:07That's number one.

00:22:08Number two, they don't have anything.

00:22:11These senators who have come out, who have seen this video, have nothing to lose or run cover for by

00:22:19being honest and telling us what they saw.

00:22:21The Republican senators have a political agenda.

00:22:25They're trying to run cover for Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth and the illegality that they're involved in.

00:22:31Because guess what? Every single one of those people voted for this.

00:22:36They voted Pete Hegseth into office.

00:22:38They voted for this level of incompetence, this extrajudicial approach to doing things.

00:22:44They were warned.

00:22:45They knew how Donald Trump felt about the military, how he feels about the Constitution, how he feels about the

00:22:51rule of law.

00:22:51He's a felon.

00:22:53He's you know, Miles, and the people who follow, you know how Donald Trump approaches these types of things.

00:23:00Why can't you just shoot him in the leg or why can't we put up a, you know, a moat

00:23:03with alligators?

00:23:04He doesn't care what the law is.

00:23:06And he made sure someone like Pete Hegseth would be installed in that position and then gets rid of all

00:23:12of the people who would hold them accountable in the legal space so they can do just this.

00:23:17They are going to do everything they can to make sure the American people never see the actual video come

00:23:23to light.

00:23:24Because if they do, to the same point everyone else is making here, most people will be horrified.

00:23:29And it will be difficult for all of the legal eagle eyes who know better to sit there and justify

00:23:37it.

00:23:38It's they can't.

00:23:39When you see it in real time, it's much more difficult to defend.

00:23:43This way you can still have the allure, it's interpretation, it's behind closed doors.

00:23:47But I would tend to lean on the side of the people who don't have any kind of political, any

00:23:54kind of politics to gain from lying about it.

00:23:57Well, I will say one caveat there, and maybe this is a bright light in all of this, is today

00:24:06Donald Trump got spanked by the U.S. Senate on this.

00:24:10The defense bill came up, and in a 77 to 20 vote, they voted to send it to the president's

00:24:18desk.

00:24:18And in that bill, there is a condition that demands that the video be released.

00:24:26And now, look, I mean, my caveat here is I think what they did in that demand is they're going

00:24:31to hold part of Pete Hegseth's travel budget hostage until they release that video.

00:24:37So there's plenty of time they could drag this out.

00:24:40I think it's 25% of his travel budget.

00:24:42So I don't know, you do the math on that, you know, Pete Hegseth could go three-fourths of the

00:24:46way into the next fiscal year without having to worry about his plane getting grounded before they need to make

00:24:51some sort of decision.

00:24:52But it's at least something.

00:24:54And so, Denver, I want to throw that one to you because you voted on those defense bills before.

00:24:58Do you think this is going to be enough leverage to get them to do the right thing here?

00:25:04Or do you think the administration is going to keep playing the shell game with this thing?

00:25:09Do I think they'll give enough leverage?

00:25:10No, no, it's going to stay the same with the shell game.

00:25:15And I think you're going to have a protector over in the House and Mike Johnson.

00:25:17And I think they're just going to go back and forth as much as they can on redaction.

00:25:21And I wonder what type of legal, and I'm glad we have lawyers on here, you know, if I'm in

00:25:25Congress, I'm saying what type of legal action are they going to take with executive privilege?

00:25:29What are they going to do to try to, you know, slow roll this?

00:25:32What is a professional slow roll long play?

00:25:35And we're looking at Hegseth with a 25% cut in his travel budget.

00:25:38I mean, I don't think people realize too, and, you know, I know that we have military, other military on

00:25:44here, is that I just wonder if he's going to just pick up a, you know, an AMC or Mac

00:25:47flight, right?

00:25:48And, you know, fly on a C-17 somewhere, or he's going to just use Kash Patel's budget miles when

00:25:53he goes to see his girlfriend.

00:25:54But I think, you know, I think really the issue comes down to, I just don't see them moving on

00:25:59this.

00:26:00I don't think they can.

00:26:01I just don't see how they're going to be able to release that video.

00:26:04It comes to the same thing with the Epstein files, all this awful things that you see back there, the

00:26:08incompetency and the sycopency, the ignorance, right?

00:26:13The hubris, the arrogance and the ignorance of this administration, I think, prevents them from following the law.

00:26:18And I think they'll just try to keep wrapping it in some kind of obscure, opaque type of legal argument

00:26:23or try to push it back to the president where he uses whatever privilege he has to suppress it.

00:26:27I mean, I think that's what they've been doing.

00:26:29I just think they're going to follow that same game plan, Miles.

00:26:32Glenn, can I ask you big picture here?

00:26:35You know, we've focused so much in the past few weeks on that second strike and, you know, whether a

00:26:42war crime was committed or just the law was broken and murder was committed in a second strike.

00:26:48But it detracts from the much bigger picture here, the much bigger picture around this campaign, which is that the

00:26:56administration has made the case that these individuals are enemy combatants in a war, that they're on a battlefield.

00:27:06And they represent an imminent threat to the United States as narco terrorists.

00:27:11This whole campaign, a hundred people killed who otherwise would have normally just been arrested.

00:27:16That's normally what we do in these drug cases.

00:27:18You send a boat, you arrest them.

00:27:19It works very well.

00:27:19It happens every day.

00:27:20But instead, they're being killed.

00:27:23What do you make of the overall campaign here?

00:27:25I mean, certainly this one episode is indicative of what's happening big picture.

00:27:30But it's it's coming into sharper and sharper relief with almost every single strike.

00:27:35You know, I think the administration's arguments fall under the weight of their own frivolity.

00:27:40You know, to argue that these are, you know, armed narco terrorists who are, you know, preparing to flood the

00:27:48American streets with narcotics.

00:27:51I mean, how many ways is that rebutted?

00:27:54These tiny little boats.

00:27:55We don't even know that the folks are armed.

00:27:58But we have heard information creep out from some of the behind closed doors testimony.

00:28:05I believe it was by Admiral Bradley, if I'm not mistaken.

00:28:09One of these boats wasn't headed to the U.S., at least one of them.

00:28:12It was going to reportedly rendezvous with another boat that was going to take drugs to a third country.

00:28:18So please explain to me how we are combating narco terrorists who are involved in armed conflict.

00:28:26When one, we don't know they're armed and two, at least one boat wasn't even headed to the U.S.

00:28:31And then there is another data point that contradicts this nonsense.

00:28:35Some of the members of a boat or from an earlier strike reportedly survived.

00:28:41And what did they do?

00:28:42They repatriated them.

00:28:44Now, there was some additional reporting that after they repatriated them, they tried to get them over to the Seacott

00:28:51terrorism prison in El Salvador, presumably to shut them up, perhaps permanently.

00:28:57But if they were so dangerous that we have to murder them on the high seas, we repatriate them?

00:29:04What?

00:29:05So they can re-up and give it another try?

00:29:07I mean, all of these arguments fall under the weight of their own frivolity.

00:29:12You know, I don't know.

00:29:13And he's using it all as some kind of a pretext to launch a war that nobody wants and that

00:29:18we should not embroil the U.S. in.

00:29:20And, you know, not to mix Trump criminal apples and oranges.

00:29:23But, you know, I mean, he's got how many fruits and vegetables of crime going at the same time that

00:29:28he's juggling.

00:29:29But it all reminds me of what federal court judges are saying about Donald Trump when his administration makes these

00:29:36arguments.

00:29:36You know, whether it's Karen Judge Karen Immergut, who is a Trump appointee, saying that Trump and his administration's assertions

00:29:44are untethered to the facts.

00:29:47That could apply equally with the nonsense they're trying to sell us with respect to these boat strikes in international

00:29:54waters.

00:29:55It was Judge, I think, April Perry in Chicago, another federal court judge who said that Trump is pouring fuel

00:30:03on a fire he started, you know, and chaos reigns, which is what he wants.

00:30:09So I don't buy any of it.

00:30:11If any of these arguments ever move into a court of law proper, you know, Donald Trump may be able

00:30:16to get some traction, Miles, in the court of public opinion.

00:30:19But when any of this moves into a court proper, he loses badly, spectacularly.

00:30:26And that's why we need to drag the Trump administration into court early and often in every case that we

00:30:33can.

00:30:35That's absolutely right.

00:30:37And speaking of fruits and vegetables, we did lose Andrew because he turned into a pumpkin at 530.

00:30:44But we're going to talk on the back end here in a little bit with some of his colleagues about

00:30:49the other whistleblower aspects of this.

00:30:52You know, Denver, I want to throw you and Tara a question as we round out the conversation here about

00:30:58that bigger picture of apples and oranges that Glenn mentions of illegality in this administration and ask you what the

00:31:07consequences are if there is not accountability on this boat strike controversy.

00:31:14What does it mean for all of the other things that Donald Trump is trying to do to evade the

00:31:20law?

00:31:20Tara, why don't I throw that one to you first?

00:31:23Well, I think that's why you see so many people raising the alarm, sounding the alarm here, including Republicans, because

00:31:31they see this as a slippery slope.

00:31:33I mean, this administration is involved in so many questionably legal actions, whether it's this to what's happening with ICE

00:31:41and the amount of civil rights violations happening virtually daily on the streets of our cities across the country, perpetrated

00:31:50by this Department of Homeland Security,

00:31:52whether it's cover that's being run for Donald Trump on the Epstein issue with with Pam Bondi, whether it's going

00:31:59after his political enemies with these frivolous and absurd prosecutions like against James and James Comey and on down the

00:32:09abuse of power.

00:32:10The list is so long. And that doesn't even get into the financial misdeeds that are going on between Trump's

00:32:17family and the crypto world and these pardons, the pay to play there,

00:32:22the billions of dollars that Trump and his family have amassed because of the the wild, wild west that is

00:32:28the crypto business.

00:32:29That's clearly that clearly has no regulation and they're not interested in and having any oversight there.

00:32:34I mean, the list is so long that I think people are starting, particularly Republicans, because they're the ones in

00:32:42charge for now.

00:32:43They're really starting to recognize if we don't do something or stand up somewhere and say something about something that

00:32:51when the shoe is on the other foot, we're in big trouble.

00:32:53We cannot lose the full rule of law here and just what is so obvious on certain things.

00:33:00And so whether there's enforcement or not, it's up to the it's up to the Department of Justice, which is

00:33:06Pam Bondi.

00:33:07I'm not I'm not going to hold my breath thinking that we're going to see any of these people actually

00:33:11held accountable during this current administration.

00:33:14However, next year, when there is an opportunity to switch the Congress and get it out of the hands of

00:33:21the Republicans,

00:33:22then you can start seeing some accountability in Congress.

00:33:25And then in twenty eight, when they're voted out, we need to see Nuremberg style trials for some of the

00:33:30things that these people are doing.

00:33:31It's so outrageous and beneath what the American Constitution represents.

00:33:36Denver, what do you think a future Democratic Congress is going to do on all of this?

00:33:42Is it going to be, you know, the largest federal investigation we've ever seen?

00:33:46You were a part of the January 6th Select Committee, which was a huge, sprawling, congressionally directed investigation that, of

00:33:53course, then led into Jack Smith's investigation at the Justice Department.

00:33:58Should we expect something even bigger is coming if they win the House?

00:34:03I don't think it would happen until twenty eight.

00:34:06I think twenty six, you'll hear the rumblings.

00:34:08And I think if you're Democrats, it depends on the majority.

00:34:11Right, Miles?

00:34:12That's the one thing.

00:34:14And it depends on how much sepsis is in MAGA.

00:34:16And I think listening to Tara, let me explain that really quickly.

00:34:19I never thought that it was going to get worse before it gets better.

00:34:22You know, you've heard me, Miles, sometimes on my shows or when I'm in interviews, I'll always sort of make

00:34:26a joke.

00:34:27It's going to get worse before it gets worse.

00:34:29And now I can think I can say it's going to get worse before it's going to get better, because

00:34:33I think there's three simultaneous infections that I did not foresee.

00:34:38I think the first one is the Epstein files and the lack of the release of those.

00:34:42I think that's the first hit, right?

00:34:43When you got the first cut, right?

00:34:45And you're looking at it, they're starting to bleed a little bit.

00:34:47I think the second is actually health care and the economy.

00:34:50I think when you're looking at red states, right?

00:34:52I was in a rural district.

00:34:53When you're looking at red rural districts, you know that I would say R plus north of R plus eight

00:34:58on the PBI, right?

00:34:59On the political voting index.

00:35:00I would say that that's the second cut, right?

00:35:03That's a little bit deeper than even Epstein, right?

00:35:06Where people are like, oh my gosh, taking away our health care, the economy is in the toilet.

00:35:10They won't release the things, right?

00:35:12And MAGA is not paying attention as much as we are, like Tara is right, like bonding and stuff like

00:35:16that.

00:35:16They're not going to do anything.

00:35:17But the voters, what if there's a third thing?

00:35:20And what if that third thing is war?

00:35:22What if that third thing is going through the inherent nationalistic nature of MAGA itself?

00:35:28And I'm wondering the Democrats have to make that calculation.

00:35:32If I'm in there as a blue dog Democrat, I'm saying, okay, we got to do some investigations here.

00:35:37We got to look at this.

00:35:37But it's holding them accountable on the funding.

00:35:39And it's making sure they take back their Article I powers.

00:35:42Get freaking strong.

00:35:43Stop being wimpy, right?

00:35:45Go, you know, go for it.

00:35:46But I do believe they got to see how many seats they actually take.

00:35:49If it's north of 40, I think you're going to see some big investigations.

00:35:51If it's lower than 40, it's going to be tough.

00:35:53And I also think that they're going to be waiting for 28 a little bit too.

00:35:56They can't wait too long, though.

00:35:58But I do think, Miles, I just feel like I never thought I'd say this.

00:36:01I think the infection in MAGA is real.

00:36:04And, you know, it's in the polling and things like that.

00:36:06So listening to Tara, listening to Glenn, I just got this feeling it's starting to boil over.

00:36:11And I think if they pop that boil, it's going to get really bad.

00:36:13And I think war is the third leg of this grotesqueness that you see right now in MAGA.

00:36:20There is no replacement for Denver Riggleman's lexicon.

00:36:24No one like him.

00:36:26Glenn Kirshner, quick final word.

00:36:29You know, Denver says that the Dems have got to stop being wimpy on this.

00:36:34Will they?

00:36:36I hope we are all learning our lesson.

00:36:40It is a lack of accountability.

00:36:42It is the lack of consequences that have brought us to exactly where we are today.

00:36:48You know, one of my beefs with my beloved home for decades, the Department of Justice, is federal prosecutors don't

00:36:56like to run the risk of losing cases.

00:36:59And that will be the death knell of a law enforcement agency.

00:37:03Because if you've got the facts and you've got the law, even if it's not a bulletproof case, spoiler alert,

00:37:09there's no such thing as a bulletproof case.

00:37:12If it's a righteous case, you have to pursue it.

00:37:16Win, lose or draw.

00:37:18If you don't, you're doing a disservice to the victims of the crime and in Donald Trump's crime.

00:37:23And the crimes, you know, basically, I prosecuted RICO cases in federal court in Washington, D.C.

00:37:29The Trump administration looks a lot to me like a criminal enterprise, right?

00:37:34RICO is racketeer-influenced and corrupt organizations.

00:37:38I've seen them before.

00:37:40We're seeing it in the Trump administration.

00:37:42And I'm going to give Tara the amen chorus, because if we don't have our version of the Nuremberg trials

00:37:49to attack the rampant lawlessness that's victimizing the American people right now, then guess what?

00:37:55We don't deserve to keep our republic.

00:37:58So how about we get our justice on as soon as we have the opportunity?

00:38:03Get our justice on.

00:38:05I love it.

00:38:05Look, folks, you're probably looking at a future White House senior staff right here or a cabinet meeting.

00:38:13I think each of these individuals would be considered for those posts in the future, and I hope they are.

00:38:19The incredible Denver Riggleman, Tara Setmeyer, and Glenn Kirshner.

00:38:24If you are not following these three people, you're left out, my friends.

00:38:28You're left out.

00:38:29Thank you, you guys.

00:38:29I appreciate your insights, your incisiveness, and your courage.

00:38:33Thanks for joining us today.

00:38:35Thanks, Miles.

00:38:36Thanks, buddy.

00:38:36Thanks, Miles.

00:38:37We're going to bring in now my co-founder of Defiance.org, Xander Schultz, the most hated person on the

00:38:44program anytime we bring him on.

00:38:46Our numbers usually tank when Denver comes onto the screen.

00:38:49Sorry, Xander Schultz, not Denver.

00:38:51Denver's terrible.

00:38:52Everyone knows that.

00:38:53But Xander's very, very bad.

00:38:54And this is where people will start to leave the live stream.

00:38:57I think it's usually what we've usually found.

00:39:00How are you, brother?

00:39:01I'm doing good.

00:39:02I mean, I was better 20 seconds ago before that intro, but I'm doing all right.

00:39:06Yeah, sorry.

00:39:06I decided today I'm not going to be your hype man.

00:39:08I'm just going to nag you.

00:39:11Okay.

00:39:12What do you got on your mind?

00:39:13We've got some pretty big things to discuss today on this episode.

00:39:17Yeah.

00:39:18I mean, look, internally, you've really taken the lead on this campaign.

00:39:22And I'd love for you to have a chance to just share at a high level.

00:39:29I kind of had two questions.

00:39:30One, just an overview.

00:39:31What is this campaign?

00:39:33What are we doing?

00:39:34And two, this is a first for our club.

00:39:36In terms of previous weekly briefings have centered existing efforts.

00:39:42In this case, you decided really, and we all leaned in together, to be catalytic.

00:39:48And I want to know why you thought this was a moment where we need to take that step and

00:39:53not just support the ecosystem, but bring the ecosystem together, including the partners

00:39:56that we're going to see here, and be catalytic in this moment.

00:39:59Yeah, look, I mean, this is all very, very real.

00:40:02And when we had Glenn Kirshner on a few weeks ago, he talked about a number of different

00:40:07organizations that were thinking about how they could cobble together a legal defense

00:40:13network for U.S. service members concerned about illegal orders.

00:40:17And since we had had that conversation with Glenn, these controversies had gotten worse

00:40:22and worse and worse.

00:40:24And more and more members of Congress who are privy to some of that information behind the

00:40:29scenes had come out publicly and said, look, something very illegal is happening here, something

00:40:34very illegal.

00:40:35And the American people need to see those underlying documents from the Justice Department that are

00:40:40classified.

00:40:41They need to see those underlying videos that haven't been shown to the American people

00:40:45because, as these members of Congress indicated, if people used their own judgment and saw

00:40:51the things they have seen behind the scenes, they would come to the same conclusion that

00:40:55laws are being broken here.

00:40:57And then you couple that, Xander, with all of the reporting of members of the military, lawyers

00:41:02across the executive branch who were concerned they were being directed to do illegal things.

00:41:07And you've got to say, well, look, we can't just let the president tell them, shut your

00:41:11mouths.

00:41:12And that's what the president did.

00:41:13And it was worse than shut your mouths.

00:41:16The president of the United States was telling people when he went after these lawmakers that

00:41:22if you try to exercise your rights, if you dare to even think about refusing a manifestly

00:41:29illegal order, we're going to court martial you.

00:41:31We're going to take away your freedoms.

00:41:32We're going to put you in prison that is terrifying, that that by design intimidates

00:41:38the people who might have the information needed to disclose misconduct.

00:41:43It does a very, very, very big disservice to the men and women in uniform in the long

00:41:49haul, not just on this issue, because it says to them under no circumstances do you

00:41:54question an illegal order.

00:41:56That has happened before in American history that people have decided I don't want to question

00:42:00an illegal order.

00:42:02And you know what happens when that when that goes down?

00:42:04In some cases, innocent people die.

00:42:07Then those people who refuse to question those orders, they go to prison anyway.

00:42:11So as Glenn said, I know it puts our service members in a really difficult spot, but there

00:42:15are those competing obligations, one to generally assume that all orders are lawful.

00:42:20But if something is the direction of a the clear direction of the commission of a crime,

00:42:25you can't abide it and you have another obligation.

00:42:28And so we felt like Xander in looking at this controversy as it was ballooning, no one was

00:42:35stepping forward and saying, hey, by the way, for that actual man or woman who has that issue

00:42:40right now, who is morally conflicted, there are real things we can do to help you out.

00:42:44There are real lawyers, real resources, real pro bono actions that are there ready for you

00:42:51to take advantage of them again, confidentially and lawfully and securely.

00:42:56And we wanted to make that happen.

00:42:59Now, I know that in doing this, we might draw Donald Trump's ire.

00:43:03That's not what we're trying to do.

00:43:04But clearly he has shown he's got a bone to pick with anyone who wants to remind people

00:43:10of their obligations and their rights under the law.

00:43:14But we happen to be a group of people who are willing to do that.

00:43:17We're willing to take that risk because we want to defend good people who've served this

00:43:22country and make sure they don't end up in a position where they're coerced into doing

00:43:27something that doesn't just violate their conscience, but violates the Constitution.

00:43:32And Miles, just to take a step back real quick, when you say doing this, what are we doing?

00:43:36That's a great question.

00:43:39You're fired up.

00:43:40I like the energy.

00:43:41Let's break it down, though.

00:43:42If folks don't know, while I'm talking about this, you can pull up a window and go to defiance.org

00:43:48slash troops.

00:43:50So NBC News announced last night, they broke the story on this, that as an organization,

00:43:57defiance.org, in partnership with whistlebloweraid.org, is going to be launching this nationwide effort

00:44:05to let U.S. service members know, we've got your backs.

00:44:09What do we mean by that?

00:44:11Well, we're going to help them know what their rights and responsibilities are under military

00:44:16law.

00:44:16But most importantly, we're going to raise awareness in those communities that there are

00:44:21lawful pathways of confidential legal advice, and also, if a crime was committed, lawful pathways

00:44:30of disclosure.

00:44:31And we're going to do that in a very simple fashion.

00:44:34We are blanketing these military communities with public service announcements.

00:44:39So the first two places, Xander, that we are going to be launching this campaign as of today

00:44:45are around U.S. Southern Command in Doral, Florida, and around U.S. Special Operations Command

00:44:54in Tampa, Florida.

00:44:55Why those two places?

00:44:56Well, those are the two commands that have been put in charge of this effort, this controversial,

00:45:04lethal boat strike effort that the administration has underway.

00:45:08And so we think if we are going to prioritize any military installations in the country to

00:45:13reach out to, to let people in the community know these resources exist, it's those two places.

00:45:18And that starts today.

00:45:21Perfect.

00:45:22Perfect.

00:45:22Thank you, sir.

00:45:23And with that, I think it's a perfect time to bring on a couple of our partners in this project.

00:45:27Yeah, we got some rock stars to bring in here.

00:45:28So let's bring in Naomi Seligman, who is the Chief Strategy Officer at Whistleblower Aid.

00:45:35Naomi, great to have you.

00:45:37Thank you, Miles.

00:45:38We're excited.

00:45:40First repeat guest, by the way.

00:45:42You've earned an honor here with the Defiance community.

00:45:46You're a first repeat guest.

00:45:47Yeah, yeah.

00:45:48Again.

00:45:49You get, there's like, there's a t-shirt you get.

00:45:51We haven't made it yet, but, you know, at some point, you know, at some point uncertain

00:45:55in the future, you'll get that t-shirt.

00:45:57And then I'm excited to also bring in our friend, Scott Goodstein.

00:46:02Scott's got a lot of accolades, but my favorite is, you may know a little guy named Barack Obama,

00:46:09who ran for public office once upon a time.

00:46:12His social media guru was Scott Goodstein.

00:46:15So there really isn't anyone better we could imagine teaming with on this campaign to make

00:46:20sure we go raise awareness in those communities than Scott.

00:46:24Welcome, my friend.

00:46:25Awesome.

00:46:26Glad to be here.

00:46:27I want to name a name with guru in it.

00:46:29I don't know if I'm a guru of anything.

00:46:32Don't you just aspire to be guru?

00:46:34That's right.

00:46:35Gosh.

00:46:35I'm a guru of something.

00:46:36You just have to take it.

00:46:38You don't really want to.

00:46:38Oh, yeah.

00:46:38You got to self-brand these days, right?

00:46:41That's right.

00:46:42I am the guru.

00:46:43For the record, I've never called myself a guru.

00:46:45But all good.

00:46:47You know, Scott and I, who have worked together and known each other for decades, I think this

00:46:51is the first podcast or show we've ever been on in our careers together.

00:46:56So another victory.

00:46:58Yes.

00:46:59Well, I want to throw the first question to you, Naomi, because you're a whistleblower in

00:47:05your own right, but look, you're helping to lead an organization that we've partnered

00:47:09with in other ways.

00:47:10And it just seemed just so natural because we already had a partnership with you all

00:47:15to team with you on this campaign.

00:47:17You guys have dealt with, at Whistleblower Aid, so many super high-profile cases.

00:47:24I mean, bombshell disclosures about healthcare companies and tech companies like Facebook

00:47:30and presidential impeachments that it's sort of second nature for you all to waltz into

00:47:37something that's controversial and say, hey, everyone, relax.

00:47:41There's a thing called the law, and there's people who can help advise you on it.

00:47:45And to be sort of that calming influence, talk to me a little bit about that, because

00:47:50I think right now we might even have US service members watching this and saying, yeah, it

00:47:54is scary times.

00:47:55Should I be terrified or are my rights still protected?

00:47:59Do I have a pathway to go consult with someone if I think I've been told to do something illegal?

00:48:07Absolutely.

00:48:08Yes, there is absolutely a pathway.

00:48:10We have, for almost a decade now, we have been representing public and private sector

00:48:17whistleblowers.

00:48:18The federal workers that you're hearing out of the Trump administration right now are

00:48:22those, you know, a number of those are those that we represent.

00:48:25Those huge tech whistleblowers that you've heard about, like Francis Haugen or Mudge.

00:48:31I mean, there is not a Goliath that we have been intimidated to take on.

00:48:37We are there, we are ready, and we have a team of attorneys and also with co-counsel around

00:48:44the country that can take on these cases, that can guide, that can provide the appropriate

00:48:50counsel, can help make sure that when you take that oath that you've taken, that we can

00:48:56make sure you can live up to that oath.

00:48:58There is no service member that should be made in a legal order.

00:49:02We're now in a moment when there are new lows with President Trump targeting civilians, targeting

00:49:10those that are really putting their lives on the line for this country.

00:49:13So the way we operate allows them to get the guidance, the representation, and the wraparound

00:49:19services that we provide.

00:49:21Whether it's, you know, the last person you have or the last, you know, the last friend

00:49:26you have in the world is a dog, we make sure that we pay vet bills.

00:49:30We make sure that you have mental wellness stipends.

00:49:33So not only are we going to make sure that you are safe and secure and fully reporting

00:49:39out any kind of, any kind of unlawful orders, we make sure that you come out of this hole.

00:49:47That is our mission at whistlebloweraid.org.

00:49:51We are doubling down on that commitment right now with our partnership with Defiant.

00:49:57You said veterans bills.

00:49:58We just had to take our dog to the vet.

00:50:00I should have called you first, Naomi, and said, look, I've blown the whistle before.

00:50:04I need someone to pay that vet bill.

00:50:06I'm just kidding.

00:50:07It is truly remarkable that you all do that.

00:50:10It's not, it's not just, you know, hey, you're going to have legal bills if you decide

00:50:14to blow up your life and, you know, call out the president for breaking the law.

00:50:19We got you.

00:50:20We got you with these wraparound services.

00:50:22That is really, really important to someone who's thinking about coming forward and doing

00:50:27this.

00:50:28But it starts with first and foremost, just knowing their rights, just even being aware

00:50:35that they have an option other than going to their desk each day and saying, well, is

00:50:41today the day I go to my boss and say, hey, boss, I think the president told us to do

00:50:46something illegal, knowing that that conversation is not going to go well.

00:50:49And so, Scott, I want to ask you, you know, when it comes to that very, very first step

00:50:55of raising awareness, one of the things that we've done is gone back to basics here is,

00:51:01you know, where do you reach people?

00:51:02Well, one way you can reach them is on the way to work.

00:51:04I think our producer can put up on the screen here.

00:51:07You know, we're starting with billboards.

00:51:08Let's find these military installations and let's go on Google Street View and let's ride

00:51:14down the street and see what billboards we can go by to make sure that we're reaching

00:51:19those folks on their way to work, on the way home and have that first conversation.

00:51:24Talk to me about how you think about that as a communications professional, not just

00:51:28the billboards, but how to first reach someone on a campaign like this in a disarming way

00:51:35and to get their attention.

00:51:38Sure.

00:51:38I mean, look, Senator Kelly started all this and started the brainstorming where it was

00:51:44like, if he's talking about refusing any orders, where did you first see that video?

00:51:50And it was like on your phone.

00:51:52And so for me, I'm thinking about how are we able to reach more people?

00:51:58And so me and Miles, full disclosure, right, did some back and forth brainstorming.

00:52:02Are you seeing this like we need to get this message in the hands of everybody that works

00:52:07around the bases, everybody that's got a family member that's a service member, every service

00:52:13member.

00:52:13And so everything from similar to Naomi doing 360 services, you see media at 360, you see

00:52:22media on your phone, you look up from your phone, you're going to see media on the billboard,

00:52:26you go shopping at the local bodega, there's going to be different signs there, you go even

00:52:32to the gas pump, there's even going to be a seven second little talking thing at the gas.

00:52:37So we want to surround the areas and the neighborhoods and the communities that are impacted the most

00:52:42by this.

00:52:44Xander, I want to bring you back into the conversation because we had a discussion that I'm happy to

00:52:50have openly with our members here about what the consequences might be in going and defending

00:52:57these service members.

00:53:00This is not an environment where you can go do routine things like this anymore easily.

00:53:06Something as simple as know your rights training is now controversial, controversial.

00:53:13And you and I were talking about that the other day about how, you know, things like knowing

00:53:16your rights sound boring and, you know, just kind of ordinary.

00:53:21But right now, the president of the United States says it is sedition.

00:53:25It's sedition.

00:53:26It's punishable by death, potentially, to go tell people that they have a right and responsibility

00:53:34to refuse manifestly illegal orders.

00:53:38And you look back at me on the screen and said, yeah, okay, let's do it.

00:53:41It's the right thing to do.

00:53:43Yeah, this is right out of the authoritarian playbook, right?

00:53:45This is blind obedience trying to be enforced via fear.

00:53:51And so this and honestly, the creation of an emergency like the war in Venezuela are both

00:53:56out of the fascist playbook.

00:53:58And so I think the benefit we have, and we mentioned this on the podcast yesterday, is

00:54:03we do have 1930s Italy and Germany to look back on.

00:54:07We don't have to sit on our hands.

00:54:08We know the consequences.

00:54:09We know there's not safety and obedience, that things just get worse.

00:54:12And so I'm excited that we are in the American people in the Defiance Club are engaging at

00:54:19this stage of the emergency.

00:54:20It's really important that we do.

00:54:22And, you know, Miles, I had a question for you, because you haven't been in exactly the

00:54:26seat, but you were in a seat like this.

00:54:30I just wonder, what was your journey?

00:54:32Like, where was your headspace at from kind of, you were present for a lot of unlawful orders,

00:54:38your journey from I'm seeing this to I'm going to do something about it and what was

00:54:44critical in that journey?

00:54:46Well, you know, Naomi will know about this, too, and I want to get her take on it.

00:54:53It's sort of like a moral choose-your-own-adventure that is not so much an adventure, because when

00:55:01you're on this pathway, when you've witnessed misconduct, you do feel very alone.

00:55:06No one tells you when you go into government, hey, by the way, if you see the big boss break

00:55:10the law, you know, call this 800 number.

00:55:12That doesn't exist.

00:55:13And so you hear this with almost anyone who decides to blow the whistle, is that at the

00:55:20beginning, they're asking themselves, what do I do next?

00:55:23What's the way to go about this?

00:55:25Now, the circumstances that I was in inside the Trump administration were especially frustrating,

00:55:30because I wasn't fully alone in this.

00:55:34I had superiors in the president's cabinet that shared the same view, that vehemently felt

00:55:43like Donald Trump was on the side of breaking the law almost every day.

00:55:48He had the inclination toward illegality, and yet none of them wanted to call it out.

00:55:54So from underneath them, I had to figure out, how do we start to have this conversation in

00:56:01the United States about how the president's own team views him as a danger to the fabric

00:56:08of our republic?

00:56:09Now, the difference in my case was there wasn't one specific unlawful order that I felt like

00:56:15the American people needed to know about.

00:56:17There were dozens of attempted efforts by Donald Trump while I was there to break the law, and

00:56:24we were sliding up on an election where we had to decide whether we were going to fire

00:56:30or rehire this man.

00:56:32So I made the choice to take my disclosures initially into the political sphere, as in

00:56:37the public sphere, as in to tell people, here are all the things that are happening because

00:56:42you've got to go take a vote.

00:56:44You've got to go decide whether to keep this guy in office.

00:56:48And I don't think there's going to be time to litigate it slowly from the inside, make

00:56:53disclosure on issue after issue.

00:56:55Now, what I will say, I'm going to add a caveat like I always do.

00:56:58What I will say is I didn't know that organizations like the Government Accountability Project,

00:57:04like Whistleblower Aid, like all of these different groups existed out there until after

00:57:10the fact, until after I came forward.

00:57:12And I've even said to Naomi before, if I had known that whistleblower aid existed, I absolutely

00:57:21would have gone to them as my first phone call amidst all of this and said, look, here are the

00:57:26list of things I can make disclosures about right now.

00:57:29How do we sequence this?

00:57:31What's the right way to go about this?

00:57:32What are the right avenues of disclosure?

00:57:35And I think I could have had an even bigger impact and potentially on some of those issues

00:57:40held Donald Trump to account legally in ways he's not been if I had taken that path.

00:57:48But Naomi, I want to throw it to you on that front, because I think you hear that from a

00:57:51lot of people who come forward as whistleblowers to your organization.

00:57:55A hundred percent, Miles.

00:57:56You know, we are hearing, you know, public servants inside the government every single day.

00:58:03Um, as you know, we can only take 10% of, um, the folks that are coming to us because

00:58:10there

00:58:11are so many people who want to say, I want to do the right thing, who wake up in the

00:58:15morning

00:58:15and say, I'm not going to, I'm not going to be a part anymore, right?

00:58:19What's their point?

00:58:20And when they reach their breaking point, they get in touch with us.

00:58:23So that is all happening within, and a lot of those folks coming to us are anonymous way.

00:58:31They do not want to disclose publicly because as you know, Miles, it's, it's a, it's a really,

00:58:36uh, terrifying path and prospect in this administration to come forward.

00:58:42Uh, so we are, we're working with them on anonymous basis, or if they want to be public,

00:58:46we know what kind of impact they've had.

00:58:48Obviously, Miles, you've had that impact.

00:58:51You know, when I was a whistleblower, it was, it was fascinating because the, uh,

00:58:56administration I was working for decided to set up a hotline for folks to call if they,

00:59:01if there was some wrong.

00:59:03And what happened was when folks would call because it was internal to the mayor's administration,

00:59:10they would then tell the chief of staff who, who would say, we've got to figure out who

00:59:14person is because they would tell them what was coming in.

00:59:16So it was a fox in the hen house.

00:59:18So we were able to, for folks to come legally responsibly, because we know what's going

00:59:25on in this administration, but we also, there's so much we don't know.

00:59:28And we want to make sure these service members who put everything on the line have a place

00:59:32to go where they feel safe and secure.

00:59:34And just like you, Miles, you know, lots of folks don't know that these organizations exist.

00:59:41So we're so happy partnering with Scott Defiance to make sure that they know that our services

00:59:48exist because what we're doing every single day is just going to now turn by to all the

00:59:54service members that need our help as well.

00:59:57So we're thrilled.

00:59:58Both of you.

00:59:59Well, I will say, uh, Xander, you know, this would be, I think a good moment.

01:00:03We've got, uh, members of the defiance.org community who are going to, uh, announce our

01:00:10surprise today about how we as a club are, are going to approach this first week of the

01:00:16campaign and what level of effort, uh, we are putting in Xander, you want to tee that

01:00:21up for us?

01:00:22Yeah.

01:00:23Enough of our faces for a bit.

01:00:24Let's get some club members up here.

01:00:25We've got, uh, John ceiling and Tony ceiling, uh, from California.

01:00:29And let's bring on that message from them.

01:00:32Mercedes.

01:00:33Hi, my name is Tony ceiling from mill Valley, California.

01:00:36And I'm John ceiling from San Carlos, California.

01:00:38We're proud members of the defiance.org team.

01:00:41We are thrilled to announce we are launching a $50,000 campaign to make us service members

01:00:47aware of their legal rights, including what to do when confronted with manifestly unlawful

01:00:52orders and to help provide them with legal support if needed.

01:00:57Yes.

01:00:58Okay.

01:00:58So I hope that if you're watching right now, you're hitting the heart button, you're hitting

01:01:01the like button, you're hitting the subscribe button because this is awesome news.

01:01:05Now this is a combination of things.

01:01:07Unlike our usual pro-democracy Oprah scene, it's not like there's a one person or group

01:01:11that's going to be on the receiving end of this grant, but this is the initial spend of

01:01:16effort and ad funding and in-kind contributions that are going towards bringing this all live.

01:01:24So if you haven't yet go check out defiance.org slash troops, these are the resources that

01:01:30we are going to make available in those military communities.

01:01:34And I'll tell you this, our goal is to make sure that anyone that's in one of those military

01:01:39communities that we are going to initially seize these ads, seize these public service

01:01:46announcement, understands that these resources are available to them.

01:01:51And that's what we're going to do.

01:01:52And there's no more important place to be doing this right now than around US Southern

01:01:57Command and around US Special Operations Command.

01:02:00Scott, I want to get your reaction to that and also maybe get your thoughts on how in the

01:02:05long term, we can scale something like this nationwide.

01:02:12Oh, we've still got you muted.

01:02:13Am I muted?

01:02:14There we go.

01:02:15All right.

01:02:16No, this is, look, this is great, but it takes time and effort to scale.

01:02:21I mean, we've got the downloadable flyers on the website as well.

01:02:27Oh, it's in farming, defiance.org slash troop.

01:02:30But in addition to that, we're talking about, you know, going to fitness clubs around the bases.

01:02:37We're going to a bunch of different avenues on people's mobile phones that live around the bases to billboards that

01:02:48will be on streets within a mile of the base.

01:02:51So the goal of this is to expand that, you know, for weeks.

01:02:55And then, look, who knows if that what the next bases are that that our president takes action from.

01:03:04And so, you know, Miles is is rightly picked out the these bases in Doral and Tampa.

01:03:11Also, fun fact, Doral is also where President Trump's got a golf course.

01:03:17So we will be heavily targeting Doral over the next couple of weeks.

01:03:24I don't suppose that the president, Scott, would give us a discount on advertising at the at the golf course.

01:03:30I don't know.

01:03:31We'll take a look.

01:03:32He's noticing those billboards or not.

01:03:34But our goal is, look, to make sure that all of the military folks know this message, know the resources.

01:03:41And then to what Whistleblower Aid does is making sure that while they're learning about it on our site, they're

01:03:47going in and being able to safely, securely, anonymously, however they they want.

01:03:54But that's that's going to Whistleblower Aid's dedicated website, knownlawfulorders.org.

01:04:02Amazing.

01:04:03Well, look, we have to get to the next part of the program, which is Xander and I will dive

01:04:07in with Defiance.org members on how they can personally get involved.

01:04:12And I will just say, as we close out here, already members of Defiance.org have made this happen.

01:04:18Their membership fees have made it possible to launch this campaign.

01:04:21We have heard from many of you that this is something that you wanted to do.

01:04:25This is an action that you wanted to see taken.

01:04:28And so we are thrilled to be able to do this.

01:04:30We are thrilled to be able to go have the backs of our service members and to hopefully scale this

01:04:36campaign.

01:04:36If you are watching this right now and you are not a member of Defiance.org, but you want to

01:04:41help with the campaign, you want to get this in front of military communities, then go to that website, Defiance

01:04:46.org slash troops.

01:04:48You can contribute to the legal defense of service members who come forward.

01:04:54You can contribute to bringing this campaign into other communities around the country.

01:04:58You can get personally involved, even if you are not a member.

01:05:02So thank you to Naomi for everything you do, for partnering with us on this campaign.

01:05:08Thank you, Scott, for your extraordinary expertise and all of your hard work to make this possible.

01:05:14You two are patriots of the highest order.

01:05:18Thank you, Miles.

01:05:19We are so thrilled to be partnering with you and thanks for having us on today.

01:05:23Awesome.

01:05:23Thanks so much for having me on and I'm going to get back to work.

01:05:27Awesome.

01:05:28Thank you, friends.

01:05:28Fantastic.

01:05:30Xander, we get to round this out with telling folks how they can take action themselves.

01:05:37Talk to us about that.

01:05:38Yeah, I'm pretty excited about this week because I know, you know, oftentimes the most effective thing you can do

01:05:43is call your senator or call your congressperson, which is important, but maybe not the most exciting experience.

01:05:49It gets boring to do that.

01:05:51We're going to keep telling people to do that, by the way, because there are going to be so many

01:05:54issues where we need you to call your member of Congress.

01:05:56But this week, let's go out there in the world and do things.

01:05:58This is not that.

01:05:59Scott mentioned that 360 presence for military members is important.

01:06:03We're going to need the Defiance members to provide that 360 coverage.

01:06:07So this campaign is all about letting military members know they're somewhere safe they can go.

01:06:12And we're going to ask for you to participate in letting them know in a number of ways.

01:06:17Mercedes, if you could throw up that graphic.

01:06:20We have posters for you to distribute near military hubs.

01:06:23So these are things like bases, recruitment centers, MEPS, ROTC units, National Guard and Reserve centers, et cetera.

01:06:30So we have these big posters for you to distribute, put up and distribute near those centers.

01:06:34We're going to have wallet cards for you to have on yourself for when you cross a pass with military

01:06:40members.

01:06:41Something small you can provide them so they're aware of this campaign.

01:06:45We also have, obviously, low-hanging fruit.

01:06:47Posting on social media, always helpful.

01:06:50A lot of us have big, diverse networks.

01:06:53There's military members across them.

01:06:54Please post on social media.

01:06:56And then lastly, and more intimately, calling military members that you may know or families, military families that you know.

01:07:03Just letting them know this is there for them.

01:07:05We are going to try to make this as easy as we can.

01:07:07So as Scott mentioned earlier, on defiance.org slash troops, we're going to have assets online for you to either

01:07:13post on social media or to download and print.

01:07:16If you'd like it to be even easier to get these things, we're going to create items on our store

01:07:21so you can buy the posters or buy the business cards.

01:07:24We're going to do this as close to cost as we can.

01:07:28We're not trying to make a buck off you.

01:07:29We're just trying to make your life easier if you desire it that way.

01:07:32And we'll also share a recommended copy for those conversations with military members and military families.

01:07:37Those can be touchy.

01:07:39This is not meant to be confrontational at all.

01:07:42It's meant to be supportive and just an FYI for folks that may be in a position like Miles was

01:07:48so many years ago.

01:07:49And we could shorten the time between them seeing and witnessing unlawful things and being able to be an asset

01:07:56to the American people in the public and helping us understand what's going on.

01:07:59So that's the campaign.

01:08:00That's the actions this week.

01:08:02It's not one action.

01:08:02It's a bunch of them.

01:08:03We're here to be supportive in helping you execute on those actions.

01:08:08And, you know, we've been even considering the new year doing some office hours for Defiance members to meet up

01:08:14maybe on Zoom so we can do these things together as well.

01:08:17So look forward to that.

01:08:18And, yeah, I'm so excited about this campaign.

01:08:21Well, and you know what we'll do this week is, Xander, remind me, is the weekly coffee we do with

01:08:26members.

01:08:27Let's have you join the weekly coffee.

01:08:29And as we're doing catch up and taking Q&A from members at the weekly members only coffee, let's go

01:08:35back through our actions and give people the opportunity to do that there.

01:08:40I think that'll be a great thing.

01:08:41But look, folks, I'll pick up on what Xander said and just say from experience, this is very real.

01:08:48I mean, I normally hear folks when they talk about a public service, you know, campaign, say, you know, post

01:08:54on social media.

01:08:55And I think, you know, what difference is that going to make?

01:08:57You know, other people will do that.

01:08:58I don't need to do that.

01:08:59It makes a difference.

01:09:01Like I said, if I had been when I was in government, if I had seen posts from friends about,

01:09:07you know, whistleblower aid or some of these other organizations, it might have changed my thinking.

01:09:12It might have allowed me to have a greater impact in calling out presidential misconduct that I had witnessed.

01:09:20And so we've literally tried to make this as easy as possible for folks so that we can get in

01:09:26front of those service members and others.

01:09:28You have no idea, I'm sure, who in your social media followings might be connected to family members and friends

01:09:35that serve in the military that might be in a position right now where they're concerned about what's happening.

01:09:41And so if you just go to the website, we've got language there.

01:09:44You can just copy and paste it right now.

01:09:45If you're listening, you could go to defiance.org slash troops.

01:09:49You don't have to give anything.

01:09:50You don't have to download a poster.

01:09:51You could just scroll down and share on social media this message.

01:09:55Don't let anyone threaten our service members.

01:09:58Help them defend their rights and obey only lawful orders.

01:10:03And then it points them towards those resources and the site, including the confidential portal where they can reach out

01:10:10to and get those legal services.

01:10:13This is awesome, defiance.org community members, that you have been supportive of doing something like this.

01:10:20I applaud you for your bravery and being willing to take this on.

01:10:23I will tell you that today, I don't want to call any of them out without their permission, but a

01:10:28number of the members of Congress who were involved in sounding the alarm initially about illegal orders have reached out

01:10:37to us to express their gratitude that defiance.org is doing this when other groups would not, that we are

01:10:44stepping forward and telling those men and women in uniform that we will protect them.

01:10:49So that's exciting stuff.

01:10:50Xander, anything else to add on actions?

01:10:54You're muted.

01:10:58This happens, people.

01:10:59This happens.

01:11:0021st century.

01:11:01We still forget that mute button.

01:11:03It's been five years since the pandemic.

01:11:05I still don't have this down at all.

01:11:08No, Miles, unless you have something else to add.

01:11:10But I mean, the only thing, just in case anyone's feeling some anxiety, is just remembering we follow up with

01:11:15all our members with an email the following day, laying all this out simply.

01:11:19So don't worry.

01:11:19You don't have to jot down in a panic.

01:11:21This is all going to be in your inbox tomorrow.

01:11:23But we do have one more ask, which is if you live in or around Doral, Florida or Tampa, Florida,

01:11:31send us a direct message because that is where this campaign initially is focused.

01:11:37And we've got some extra special things that you could help with.

01:11:41So send us a direct message on our various social media platforms.

01:11:46Our producer will tell me if we have a favorite one.

01:11:48But I think it could be easiest on Substack.

01:11:52Our producer says Substack.

01:11:54So if you are a Defiance.org member and you just go to our members information site, Defiance.news, you

01:12:02can send us a direct message there.

01:12:04Or actually, you can just reply to any email we have sent you via Substack.

01:12:11You can just reply and that will go into our system.

01:12:14So let us know if you live near Doral, Florida or Tampa, Florida and want to be involved.

01:12:18But to any member or anyone watching anywhere else, you can just go to the website, download a poster.

01:12:24Put it up somewhere.

01:12:25This could change someone's life.

01:12:27This could protect a service member from doing something stupid that they shouldn't do because not every order is unlawful

01:12:34and not every order is lawful.

01:12:36Or it could make sure that they don't commit a crime unwittingly that they're being directed to do.

01:12:43So either way, we're going to make sure that they have that support and you could be the linchpin.

01:12:47Please do that.

01:12:48Please help.

01:12:50Let's go into our final segment here today.

01:12:51I know we're into overtime.

01:12:52We love to do this segment.

01:12:55Who is joining the Defiance?

01:12:57Because this is a reminder every day, folks, that our ranks are growing.

01:12:59There are more and more people joining the Defiance.

01:13:02And you may not be thrilled to have a new member joining the club today, but I'll tell you who's

01:13:06joining the club.

01:13:07I don't think he has signed up for Defiance.org.

01:13:10But his name is Ted Cruz.

01:13:11He's a United States senator from Texas.

01:13:13And our producer Mercedes will let me know if she's seen him sign up for membership since we started.

01:13:18But even if he hasn't today and the past couple weeks, he's shown that he's more interested in flirting with

01:13:27the idea of being a member of the Defiance.

01:13:30And during Trump 2.0, we have seen Ted Cruz standing up on an issue that is, I think, near

01:13:39and dear to all of our hearts.

01:13:40In fact, it happens to be the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, not the second or third or

01:13:4612th.

01:13:47And at an FCC oversight hearing before the Senate Commerce Committee this week, that senator challenged the FCC chairman, Brendan

01:13:57Carr, about his commitment to free speech.

01:14:00Take a listen.

01:14:01Well, another area of agreement between you and I is that Jimmy Kimball is angry, overtly partisan, and profoundly unfunny.

01:14:13That, sadly, is true for most late-night comedians today who seem to have been collectively broken by President Trump's

01:14:22election.

01:14:24Jimmy's remarks about Charlie Kirk were tasteless.

01:14:27And ABC and its affiliates would have been fully within their rights to fire him or simply to no longer

01:14:35air his program.

01:14:36That was their choice.

01:14:38But what government cannot do is force private entities to take actions that the government cannot take directly.

01:14:47Government officials threatening adverse consequences for disfavored content is an unconstitutional coercion that chills protected speech.

01:14:57Democrat or Republican, we cannot have the government arbitrating truth or opinion.

01:15:09Mr. Chairman, my question is this.

01:15:11So long as there is a public interest standard, shouldn't it be understood to encompass robust First Amendment protections to

01:15:21ensure that the FCC cannot use it to chill speech?

01:15:26Now, that may be a little bit of a backhanded way of joining the defiance.

01:15:31I can't say I agree with Ted Cruz about Jimmy Kimball.

01:15:35I find Jimmy Kimball to be completely hilarious and handling this whole thing very well.

01:15:41But it is notable that Ted Cruz continues to put Donald Trump's FCC chairman's feet to the fire.

01:15:51He has done it over and over again.

01:15:54He has needled them for veering off of their obligations and, in fact, veering towards running over the First Amendment.

01:16:04And for that, we applaud him.

01:16:06For that, I reluctantly say, Ted Cruz, come join us.

01:16:12Anyway, that's who's joining the defiance.

01:16:14Maybe, potentially, I don't know.

01:16:15Like I said, we'll see if he signs up at defiance.org as a member.

01:16:19I'm not going to hold my breath, but I'm glad that Ted Cruz is showing a little bit of courage

01:16:23here.

01:16:24Xander, what's your take?

01:16:25I suspect you're moving to Texas to vote for him.

01:16:27So, you know, as someone who used to have donors donate every time Cruz tweeted and it went to black

01:16:35-led organizing his state, probably not moving to Texas to go hang out with Cruz.

01:16:40I've been in his opposition for a while.

01:16:43But this is not hard.

01:16:44Fighting fascism is not hard.

01:16:46Fight for free speech.

01:16:47Fight for our Bill of Rights.

01:16:49Fight for our Constitution.

01:16:50People across the ideological spectrum can do it.

01:16:54And maybe we've just become so cynical about people doing that, especially in Trump's Republican Party.

01:17:03But it's nice to see it happen over and over and over again.

01:17:06It's honestly given me a lot of hope the last couple of weeks that even with the Republican majority in

01:17:11both houses, we may, in fact, be able to defy him with this set of Congress people before the midterms

01:17:19in meaningful ways.

01:17:20In very meaningful ways, including what we talked about today.

01:17:25So, folks, I know you're tired of hearing it.

01:17:27Miles, we know the web address, defiance.org slash troops.

01:17:31Do it.

01:17:32If you care about the rule of law in this country, if you care about U.S. service members, help

01:17:37them get protection.

01:17:39We're not telling them that they need to go defy the president.

01:17:42That's not what we are doing.

01:17:43We are telling them that resources are available if they are concerned about orders they have received.

01:17:49And that might be helping U.S. service members figure out that orders they've received are legal.

01:17:55That's just as important as helping them figure out if an order they've received is not legal.

01:18:01Because either way, they are going to make a great decision of consequence in their lives and the life of

01:18:07our nation.

01:18:08So help us do that, friends.

01:18:10This is a very important cause to be involved in.

01:18:13I will just say a big thank you to folks joining us today.

01:18:17If you are here because you're a member of defiance.org and you're here for the weekly mission briefing, which

01:18:22we do every Wednesday at 5 p.m. Eastern, you might be missing out on the other days.

01:18:27Because every single weekday, we are live at 5 p.m. Eastern on Substack, on YouTube, on X, maybe on

01:18:36other platforms I don't know about.

01:18:37We're live talking about the news of the day.

01:18:41We do these dispatches for the defiant because it is important for us to stay informed if we are going

01:18:47to make the best decisions as a club of courageous Americans on how to fight back.

01:18:53We've got to be aligned on what's happening and what matters and how we can do something about it.

01:18:58So please join us on those other days for Defiance Daily.

01:19:01Reminder, tomorrow, actually, there will be no show on Thursday.

01:19:04So even though I told you to join us every day at 5 p.m., tomorrow is an exception.

01:19:08A lot of crazy things happening around the holidays, namely air travel that gets screwed up.

01:19:14And so tomorrow, we're going to give you a break.

01:19:16Do whatever you want at 5 p.m. Eastern.

01:19:17But don't forget to join us this Friday because we're going to round out the year with a special conversation

01:19:23about a year of defiance.

01:19:26You may be thinking a lot of dark things happened this year, but a lot of really, really good things

01:19:31happened this year.

01:19:32And I am personally feeling quite bullish about the direction that the defiance is going in this country.

01:19:39So join us Friday at 5 p.m. Eastern for that closeout conversation for the year before we take two

01:19:44weeks off on a programming break.

01:19:46And then finally, finally, finally, tonight, if you're going to be watching the president's speech, watch it with us.

01:19:53Watch it with us here.

01:19:54We'll be going live just before Donald Trump speaks live to the nation from the Oval Office at 9 p

01:20:01.m. Eastern.

01:20:02So you can tune in just a little bit before 9.

01:20:04We'll be starting the conversation about that address.

01:20:07We still don't know fully what the president's going to be talking about tonight.

01:20:10A lot of speculation that he's going to be talking potentially about war in Venezuela or at least this embargo

01:20:17of oil boats and potentially his agenda for the years to come.

01:20:23Either way, it will be important for us to assess what the president is doing or thinking about doing.

01:20:29So join us tonight for that conversation.

01:20:31We have some special guests.

01:20:32We will be joined by former U.S. Senator John Tester and a number of others who will be in

01:20:38that conversation.

01:20:38So come be with us for that tonight.

01:20:41Thank you for joining Defiance Daily Dispatches for the Defiant.

01:20:46As always, friends, stay loud, stay brave and stay together.

01:21:20Defiance Daily Dispatches for the Defiant.

Trump PANICS as DEFIANCE Mission Launches | Scott Goodstein

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