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00:00I can tell you what I did in a bar in 1994
00:02in Moncton, Canada
00:04quicker than I can tell you anything about my wrestling career.
00:07I've done it. I don't live in the past.
00:08I just keep moving forward.
00:10How's retired life treating you?
00:11I can't tell.
00:12I work more now than in the last 10 years I was on the road wrestling.
00:15What exactly is your role with Triple A?
00:18I guess I'm the...
00:20During your Hall of Fame speech, you thanked Triple H.
00:23What were you referring to there?
00:24When the streak got broke, I got a really bad concussion.
00:27Once I recover, self-doubt starts to set in.
00:29And he could sense it.
00:30He just comes up and he goes,
00:31Don't forget who you are.
00:32What are your top three WrestleMania matches during the streak?
00:36There's actually four.
00:3725, 26, 27, and 28.
00:39Those four matches are what professional wrestling is supposed to be about.
00:42Throwing mankind off Hell in a Cell.
00:44What's the first thought going through your head?
00:46He's dead.
00:47That bump off the top was unprecedented.
00:50And what happens next is really unprecedented.
00:52What a fun segment with Hulk Hogan dragging him around behind the motorcycle.
00:56That was after he tried to steal my bike and it stalled out on the ramp.
01:00Did you have any mishaps with the bike?
01:02I had a mishap in Baltimore once where I stole a police bike.
01:06You've had so many iconic matches, but I'm curious if there's an underrated match.
01:10One of my favorite matches I rarely talk about was...
01:14Man, ladies and gentlemen, The Undertaker.
01:20You're no stranger to podcasts.
01:22You're a podcaster yourself.
01:23That's a stretch.
01:25Yeah?
01:25Yeah.
01:27Have you been having fun with that?
01:28Not at all.
01:29No.
01:32I mean...
01:33Fanatics is actually one of my...
01:36One of the sponsors, but...
01:39I'd almost rather go to the dentist and pull a tooth and do a podcast.
01:42Yes.
01:43So what do you think the...
01:44How many more years, months do you want to do the podcast, you think?
01:48How much longer?
01:49Yeah.
01:50Oh, man.
01:51You say years?
01:54It's not years?
01:55No.
01:55We're probably talking months.
01:57I think...
01:58Yeah.
01:59When this contract rolls out, I don't think we'll be renewing.
02:04Yeah.
02:05How's retired life treating you?
02:06I can't tell.
02:08Well, I work more now than in the last 10 years I was on the road wrestling.
02:12I'm always gone.
02:13I'm always in places like this now.
02:16So...
02:16Yeah.
02:18Retirement is not quite how I envisioned it.
02:21At what point in your career do you feel like you started thinking about it coming to an end?
02:26At what point was that?
02:28Unfortunately, way too late.
02:30I think it was November 22nd, 2020, when it dawned on me like, you might need to find something else
02:38to do here.
02:39You went into this like thinking you could keep doing this for years and years?
02:44Well, um...
02:45Yeah, I, uh...
02:47Hang on.
02:49Wimby's over there getting booed.
02:50What's going on over there?
02:50Oh, yes.
02:51Look at that.
02:51One of the few people in here taller than you.
02:56Oh, is he actually standing?
03:01Brave to show up here though, I guess.
03:03Ooh, good point.
03:04I guess it's...
03:05It's safer now that they...
03:07It's why he's getting booed.
03:09It's safer than the next one, I guess.
03:11That's true.
03:12Right.
03:14Um...
03:15Yeah, well, I forgot...
03:17So, you weren't thinking in 2018, 2019, let's wrap this up?
03:22Well, no, I was thinking about wrapping it up, but like, I envisioned myself like,
03:27all right, I'm going hunting and doing all those things that I wasn't really able to do while I was
03:32on the road.
03:33And, um, and that's what I started out doing, and then, uh, things started popping up,
03:38and, uh, you know, started doing a, started doing a podcast, and then, you know, this thing came up, and
03:45that thing came up, and it's just like, all of a sudden, my calendar's full again, and I hadn't, uh,
03:52you know, I hadn't been out on a mountain or on a lake in a while.
03:56So, it's, uh, it's really cutting into my, uh, my outdoor life.
04:01Well, you're working a lot with AAA now.
04:03So, what exactly is the role you have with AAA?
04:06And also, how much credit do you take for one of the greatest matches, El Grande Americano versus original El
04:12Grande Americano?
04:14Oh, oh, no, thank you, no, um, you know, you, myself and, and Jeremy Borash, uh, kind of had this,
04:26um, this, this idea, but, uh, you know, El Grande and, and Chad Gable, man, they, they, they, they took,
04:35they took the thought and the idea, and, um, they really took it to a whole different level.
04:42Um, there were some, there were some highly motivated, motivating, um, speeches that I gave both of them, uh, before
04:51they would go out.
04:52Um, what did those sound like?
04:54Oh, I don't know how, well, there's a bunch of kids here.
04:57Um, no, I, I just, you know, I would reiterate to them how, how important what they're about to go
05:05out.
05:05And do is not only for AAA, but for their own personal careers.
05:12And, um, you know, and, and trying to motivate them to do things differently.
05:18Um, and be, be more edgy, more, more aggressive, more violent.
05:26Right.
05:27And, um, you know, it, it took a while, um, it, it took a while for that to, to kind
05:33of sit in and for them to see my vision.
05:37And my vision is I want us to put out a product that is completely different from NXT.
05:43It's completely different from, uh, SmackDown Raw.
05:48I want it to be different from every other wrestling.
05:51So, um, and that starts, you know, with me is storytelling, athleticism, and aggression.
06:00And, um, you know, it, it, it's a process and, uh, everybody's starting to buy into it and realizing that,
06:07uh, what we're doing down there is, uh, it's, it's got the attention of the, uh, the wrestling community.
06:15So what exactly is your role with triple a I thought, I thought I dodged that question.
06:23I went all the way around it.
06:24That's why you're the best.
06:26Cause I thought I went all the way around it and you would forget that.
06:29Uh, oh my gosh, I guess in layman's terms, I am, uh, I'm the, uh, the head.
06:41Uh, you don't want to give yourself a title here.
06:43You're the guy.
06:44I don't, you know, you know, it's, it's great.
06:47It's great.
06:48It's great when, you know, it's, it's the, uh, El Grande storyline, but as soon as you throw one storyline
06:52out there that sucks, it is like, oh my God, he's horrible.
06:57Fire him.
06:59No way.
07:00Uh, I guess I'm the, uh, head, head of creative.
07:04There you go.
07:04Well, you're doing amazing work.
07:06Well, thank you.
07:07Give it up for the undertaker and triple a.
07:10Thank you.
07:10No, we're just making what making what old.
07:13The old stuff knew again and prove that it still works.
07:17One of your roles in retirement has been, you're the guy delivering the wonderful news to people that they're getting
07:24inducted into the hall of fame.
07:26How did you become that guy?
07:30You tell me, I don't know.
07:32I didn't, I didn't know that I was getting that job.
07:35Um, you know, I did, uh, I did.
07:39I think Stephanie was the first and, uh, I was like, oh, that makes sense.
07:44You know, Stephanie and I have a long history together.
07:46I mean, I've, I've watched her grow up and I like that made sense.
07:50Right.
07:50I knew her.
07:52I, you know, I knew her longer than everybody else.
07:54So.
07:54Where to Stephanie.
07:56Right.
07:57Iconic moment.
07:58Iconic.
07:59And, uh, so, but then from there, it like, Hey, uh, can you come back and you do this?
08:05And I'm like, uh, okay.
08:06So I guess, I guess now I'm the, uh, I'm the hall of fame guy.
08:11It's kind of like the NFL's version of the knock.
08:13Yes.
08:14Right.
08:14Exactly.
08:15You've got to tell your wife.
08:16She was going into the hall of fame.
08:17No, I didn't know.
08:18We were actually, we were actually, uh, promoting something on ESPN and, and, uh, uh, I think,
08:25I think it was triple H popped up and surprised her with that.
08:28Did you know?
08:29I had no clue.
08:29No way.
08:30No.
08:31Oh, what a fun moment that is.
08:32Everybody.
08:33You know, that's funny.
08:33Everybody thinks that I know a lot more about the ins and outs and what's going on at WWE.
08:39I barely know what's going on at triple A.
08:42Like I, I, I think I do it by choice.
08:45Like I just don't, uh, if it doesn't affect what I'm doing or what we're doing down there,
08:51then I kind of just stay out of it.
08:53And I know you're a huge fan of Gunther and the work that he's doing.
08:57I'm curious if you were retiring in 2026, do you think that final match, that retirement
09:03match would be you versus Gunther?
09:06Um, yeah, I think, I mean, that would, that would be a good one for sure.
09:10Um, uh, you know, I, I like the way I like the way he works and I like the way
09:15he takes
09:16his time and builds to a crescendo and a match.
09:19Um, but too, you know, there's, there's guys like Opa out there now.
09:24And, um, and who, who may be the, one of the guys that I think may be the biggest star,
09:29maybe trick Williams.
09:30I love trick.
09:32And, um, so, you know, all those guys I would have loved to have worked with.
09:36What do you think it is about trick?
09:38And he just got that thing, right?
09:41He's, he's got that, uh, he's got that swagger.
09:46And, um, you know, I've talked to him a few times and like, he's just a little bit more
09:52of a, a mean streak away from being a real big player.
09:56I think speaking of the hall of fame during your hall of fame speech, you think triple
10:03H and you said, thank you for reminding me at a time when my confidence was at its lowest
10:08of who I really am.
10:10What were you referring to there?
10:13So, uh, so on the night that, you know, I, I really say, I'm sure everybody at this
10:19point knows, but when I, when the street got broke by Lesnar, um, I, I got a really bad
10:26concussion and didn't remember the match.
10:30And you went straight to the hospital.
10:32Yeah.
10:32I went straight to the mat.
10:33I went right to the hospital before mania was over.
10:36Um, and my memory didn't even start coming back till, I don't know, it was four or five
10:42in the morning.
10:43Um, you know, it's, it's, it's kind of like you see on TV when they, when the doctor comes
10:48in and ask you, uh, you know, what's your name?
10:51And you know, how old are you?
10:53They did that about every 10 or 15 minutes and you didn't know your name.
10:56I had no clue.
10:57Crazy.
10:58The two people that I knew, this was crazy is I knew who Michelle was and I knew who Vince
11:06was.
11:07I didn't, I couldn't have told you my name.
11:09I couldn't, I couldn't have told you where I was at.
11:12Um, it was really, really bizarre.
11:16And, um, but, and then, you know, once, you know, once I recover from the concussion and
11:23I start training again and you know, I'm wondering if I'm going to, if I'm going to come
11:28back the next year, it, uh, you know, self doubt kind of starts to set in.
11:35Obviously at that point I'm getting older.
11:38I'm in the twilight of my career, but there was nothing that was really, there was nothing
11:45that was real significant that I could point out to say, Oh, that's right there.
11:48That's where I got concussed.
11:50So, you know, you've probably heard the old adage, like fighters get old overnight.
11:55Right.
11:56And there's just so much and so many bumps that you can take.
12:01And, you know, I would, that's the, those are the self doubt thoughts that were creeping
12:05into my mind is like, well, what if it happens again?
12:09And so, but, but I, you know, me being me, how'd you finish that match?
12:16I don't know.
12:17I just, I did it on instinct, I guess, because I don't, I don't remember it.
12:22My, my last, my last memory of the day was, I don't know, maybe two o'clock.
12:30That's the last thing that I remember.
12:33And, you know, there's a long, big, huge protocol of things that I had to do at that
12:37point was stretching and warming up and getting, you know, shots in my knees and hips and things.
12:44And I don't remember any of it and never did.
12:48And I still haven't, like, I just don't remember it at all.
12:51So what did Triple H say to you to instill that confidence back in you?
12:55So I, I'm, I'm, I'm standing, um, I think, you know, Bray had already made his entrance
13:01and I'm in the gorilla positioning and kind of going through my stuff.
13:05And I'm, you know, like, like I'm telling my, there's one part of me is saying, Mark,
13:09you, you've, you've prepared, you've trained, you're good shape, you know, everything's,
13:14you know, I've got a, I had a clean bill of health from the, uh, you know, from the doctors.
13:19And, you know, they were like, no, no, man, we, they were like, I, we can't tell you not
13:24to do this.
13:25They said, if it happens again, then maybe we need to have a different discussion.
13:29But like I did all the protocol that I was doing, got green light in from everybody.
13:34But right before the music starts, you know, man, the self doubt really, it really creeps
13:40in.
13:41And, uh, I think he, I think, you know, cause we've known each other for so long and we've
13:45had so many matches and we've done so much business together and, uh, and just being
13:50friends, I think he could sense it that I was struggling.
13:55And, um, you know, he, he, uh, he just quietly got up and, uh, I think I was kind of
14:03crouched
14:03down in the corner thinking about things.
14:06And, uh, he goes, he just comes up and he goes, Hey, he says, don't forget who the F you
14:13are, you're the F an undertaker.
14:18And it was, you know, it was like, it was just enough to like, you know what?
14:23You're right.
14:24You know, I've done this a million times.
14:26Everything's going to be fine.
14:29And, you know, I went out and had the match, but man, I was, I wouldn't say, I wouldn't
14:35say panicked, but there was just so much.
14:38There was so much self doubt in my head like that I hadn't experienced in a long, long
14:43time.
14:44Yeah.
14:44So, yeah.
14:46When we talk about the streak, I think the match that immediately pops into people's head
14:50is WrestleMania 30, the streak ending.
14:53I'm curious.
14:53What are your top three WrestleMania matches during the streak?
14:59Um, well, there's actually probably four and they're all, they're all right there together.
15:04Okay.
15:0525, 26, 27 and 28.
15:07Wow.
15:08Uh, I mean, like I had, I had a, I had a great match.
15:13I had great matches with Batista and I had great match with edge, but I think the, the,
15:19the 25, 26, 27 and 28 storyline, the two was Sean and then the two with triple H.
15:26I mean, it's very rare that you get to be, you get to do something like that.
15:30Right.
15:31Cause that was all one continual story.
15:34It was, it was, you know, me and Sean, the light versus the darkness streak versus career.
15:41The triple H gets involved to take up for his buddy.
15:45And then it culminates in the end of the era.
15:48And, uh, like all of those matches were what I like to get.
15:53I think they were all storytelling classics.
15:56And, um, yeah, I think those four matches are what professional wrestling is supposed
16:01to be about.
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17:11The anniversary just passed of you throwing mankind off Hell in a Cell.
17:16It was just last month.
17:17What's the first thought going through your head after you've thrown him off and he goes
17:22through the announce table?
17:24He's dead.
17:27He's dead.
17:29It's just like, it's so surreal.
17:33Like when you watch it back, it's just like 1,001 and boom, and he hits the table.
17:40from, from my vantage point on top of the cell, it seemed like, it seemed like it was 10 seconds.
17:47It just seemed like he kept falling and falling and falling.
17:50And then he hit and then he, he hit the table and then he hit the floor and then he
17:57slid under the barricade.
17:58And I'm just like, nah, he ain't getting up for that.
18:02Yeah.
18:03I was wrong.
18:04And then you're kind of like, you're standing on the cell now.
18:07They're raising up the cell so they can bring the stretcher in.
18:10You have no idea what's going on.
18:13Yeah.
18:13No, I don't know.
18:14I don't know what kind of shape he's in, what he's broken, what he's injured.
18:18Um, in fact, I was like, I was so in tune in the moment.
18:23Like I didn't even know that the cell had raised.
18:26Like it was just up and I'm, and I'm looking, I'm looking eye to eye with the guys in the
18:31cheap seats.
18:31And I'm like, oh shit.
18:35Okay.
18:36All right.
18:36We're, we're up here now.
18:38What are you thinking when Mick starts climbing back up again?
18:42I was like, man, man, you are a glutton for punishment.
18:46It wasn't going to get, it wasn't going to get any better.
18:49I mean, it got much worse.
18:50Yeah, it actually, it did.
18:52It got, it got much worse, but man, you know, there's a moment.
18:55There's part of me that's like, you, you, you respect, you respect so much.
19:01What, what this meant to him and what he was willing to do to, to deliver on this match.
19:09And that part, you just have to take a step back and, you know, you gotta give, you gotta tip
19:14your hat because it's amazing.
19:16But then just the, you know, as a, you know, as, as a competitor, you're like, yeah, you know what?
19:24Every once in a while, I like to, you know, I like to slap somebody around, but like, you don't
19:29want them to, you don't want long-term damage.
19:33And at this point, we don't know.
19:36Like that, that bump off the top was unprecedented.
19:40And then obviously what happens next is really unprecedented.
19:45Yeah.
19:45When, when the cage breaks and he goes through, are you like, Oh, that's it's over.
19:49Yeah.
19:50Honestly, I was joking earlier, but I really thought that he might've.
19:54Yeah.
19:54I, I, from my vantage point, it looked like he landed on his head and then, you know, and obviously
20:03the chair lands on his face.
20:04Uh, so at that point, this is like, man, I, I, I don't know what, I don't know what else
20:14there is that he feels like he's got to prove.
20:17Um, but I mean, that just, again, I mean, it's, it's a testament to how much this business and entertaining
20:27the fans, how important that was for Mick.
20:31And he wanted to, and he wanted to deliver, um, you know, it all started because he didn't feel like
20:38that we would be able to live up to Sean and my Hell in a Cell match, the first one.
20:45And I was just like, Mick, like, it'll be different, but it'll be just as good.
20:51Yeah.
20:54What if?
20:55Sure.
20:56I was like, no, it wasn't, it wasn't until the day of that I even agreed to be a part
21:00of that.
21:01I was like, I was like, man, we don't need it.
21:03And I'd rather you, I'd rather you be able to get up at the end of the night and walk,
21:09you know, walk and see your family again.
21:11Was there a moment after that match where you got to the back and you just chatted or you had
21:16a moment?
21:18Not really, because he was so out of it.
21:21Like there was, and there was medical people and everybody surrounding him.
21:25I was just, you know, I was close enough to, you know, make sure, you know, get whatever the doctors
21:32were saying and make sure that he was, you know, he was okay.
21:37I mean, as okay as okay can be after being thrown off a cage and thrown through it and your
21:43tooth going through your lip and ended up in your nose.
21:47And I was just, you know, you went, you think about it when you see something like that and you're
21:53like, man, that is really gross.
21:56Right.
21:56Do you think, well, he's got a huge booger in his nose and come to find out it's his actual
22:02tooth.
22:03And, and I, if I'm not mistaken, I like my memory is not what it once was, but I'm pretty
22:09sure that he handed his tooth at some point to the referee, just like he did his ear.
22:14I think he handed his tooth to the referee and told him to hold it.
22:19It's just a different kind of toughness and dedication.
22:22At Survivor Series, at Survivor Series 1996, you had a teardrop tattoo on your face for that one match only.
22:32What's the story behind that?
22:35Oh, probably, I was probably crying because of who I was working with.
22:39No, no.
22:42So there, there's a, there, there's an old thing.
22:46Like when you see people with tattoos or teardrop tattoos, they took a life and didn't shed a tear.
22:53So I didn't, it was just part of my swag.
22:56Like, it was like, all right, well, this is kind of cool.
22:58I'm, you know, and, and I knew that people would wonder like, what's the, what's the teardrop for?
23:04You know, so it was just kind of a, it was kind of for swag and aura and, you know,
23:11people asking that same question.
23:13It was like, what's with the, the tear?
23:16And I'm like, and then it got, you know, then it got the, then the tear got WWE'd and it
23:21turned into like a water drop.
23:22It was so, hey buddy, what's up?
23:28Yeah.
23:29A little, little, little Cody over there, but yeah.
23:35In 2005, this is a big thing online.
23:38You had a full beard for a very short window of time, but, but this has become a thing because
23:46you look so cool with the full beard.
23:48Well, like sometimes, you know, I just get lucky.
23:53Like I, you, you're always trying to, again, you know, you're always trying to evolve when you're there.
23:59As long as I was there, you have to reinvent yourself and give new looks, sell more action figures, right?
24:09You got as like, oh, we don't have the, we don't have the bearded undertaker.
24:14But when I, when I debuted and I, I think that's, is that when I came out of the burning
24:20casket?
24:21Yes.
24:21Yeah.
24:22So what, what, what happened with that?
24:24So that casket was standing up, it's on fire.
24:28So I'm, when I'm in the casket and it's, oh, it's getting warm in here.
24:34It's time for me to come out of that.
24:36So when I kick, you know, when I kick that door off, it, it created, it created a vacuum.
24:44So a lot of that fire actually come inside and started singeing hair and everything else.
24:51So I don't think that, I think that's probably why the, the beard didn't last because we were always at
24:58that point burning things up and lighting caskets and doing different things.
25:02But I don't know, I, it's just, you know, when I, when I hear things like that, like, you know,
25:10in 2005, the beard thing, I was like, I haven't thought twice.
25:15I haven't thought, I don't know what the things are.
25:18Like when people start reciting my eras, right?
25:21Yeah.
25:22You know, it's, oh, it's the dead man gimmick and that's the Lord of darkness.
25:26And I'm like, okay, I don't, I don't.
25:29Can you go through all your, all your, all your eras?
25:32No.
25:33I can tell you what I did in a bar in 1994 in Moncton, Canada quicker than I can tell
25:40you anything about my, my wrestling career.
25:43There's like five or six matches that I, I have a really, really good recollection of, but otherwise, like I've
25:49done it.
25:49I don't live in the past and I just kind of keep moving forward.
25:53Triple H has told this story before, but I don't think you have.
25:56He says that the people's elbow was created strictly to get you to laugh.
26:02Is that true or false?
26:03Yeah.
26:04I think, I think there was, yes.
26:06I think there was a, another conspiracy at the time to do something is the guys to do something really
26:14hokey.
26:14I think it actually started in a dark match somewhere.
26:17And yeah, they were always, I don't know, like it, for a while there, it really become the thing to
26:25do to try to get me to break character.
26:27And, and some of the things that guys did were, but I mean, I mean, what, what else would that
26:35be for?
26:35That's the hokiest looking thing in the business.
26:39What a finisher.
26:40I mean, it turned it right.
26:41I mean, like every, I guess, yeah, it, it, it worked out all right for him, but.
26:46There's a great version of it where he comes over to do the people's elbow on you and you sit
26:50up.
26:51Oh yeah.
26:52And then he kicks you down and then he delivers it.
26:55Yeah.
26:56Yeah.
26:56That was just a little added.
26:58I think that was all ad lib too.
27:00So.
27:01When everyone was trying to get you to break, there's a great one where Stone Cold's backstage, Vince McMahon's cutting
27:07this promo on you guys before Survivor Series.
27:10And it's the invasion angle.
27:11So Stone Cold's repeating everything Vince is saying.
27:14Do you remember this?
27:14Oh yeah.
27:15Five on five.
27:16Five on five.
27:17Yeah.
27:17You are like, you are holding on for dear life, trying not to break.
27:25It, it, it wasn't, no, it was, you just have to look, I was, I wasn't really super close to
27:34laughing, but it's, it's just like when you take the character of Stone Cold, then he starts doing something silly.
27:42Then it just, it just, and then it does something silly on the show.
27:48It does kind of, you, you, you are a little taken back from it.
27:52You know, he did some, he did a lot of things throughout the, throughout his run that were like, especially
27:59in, you know, in, in dark matches and house shows.
28:03He was, uh, he was quite the card.
28:06He was, he was, he was a cut up, but those segments were so, no, because you look at all
28:11those guys and they're all have their, they all had their comedic timing and their little, you know, their little
28:18nuance and new.
28:19It was, those were good times.
28:21You just don't get those kinds of pre tapes and backstages anymore like that.
28:25Who were you typically traveling with back then?
28:29Um, I was, for the most part, like, well, in the nineties, uh, you know, uh, we, I, I usually
28:36drew, well, always Paul Bearer.
28:38Paul Bearer was always with me.
28:39And then usually, um, Brian Adams traveled with me quite a bit.
28:45And, um, and then if, if the whole BSK was on the same tour, then we were all divided up
28:52into, you know, the cars equally.
28:56But, and then after that, like once everything kind of, you know, BSK, everybody kind of went their different ways.
29:02And, uh, I, I just traveled, I traveled up by myself a lot.
29:06I, I, I, I grew to enjoy the, the peace and quiet of, of traveling up and down the road.
29:13How did old school become part of your move set?
29:16Is there a story behind that?
29:18How it became old school?
29:20Yeah.
29:23Like a guy at your size, getting up to the top rope, walking across it like a tightrope.
29:29Yeah.
29:30That's, it's an impressive move.
29:32I, I don't, I think somebody, I, I think someone just, uh, well, first I stole it.
29:39I, I stole it from the spoiler.
29:41Uh, I waited, like I had, I worked with spoiler when I was in W, um, world class, world class
29:48championship where I got my start.
29:50Um, I worked with the spoiler originally and he did it.
29:55He did the, the, the, the wrist lock and walk the rope thing.
30:00So I had to wait, I had to wait until the spoiler retired.
30:04And then, and then I took it.
30:06And then I was like, well, if he did it this way, I'm going to do it this way.
30:10So originally, you know, I would, I would drop somebody in the ring and then I would go up and
30:15then I would tightrope out three or four steps.
30:17And then, and then drop the elbow.
30:20Um, and by the time, you know, by the time I got to WWE in 1990, I was already walking
30:28with a limp.
30:29Cause we would, you know, we would do three or four TV tapings in WCW.
30:34And that's, you know, that's three or four elbows a night.
30:37So I remember, I remember Jody Hamilton.
30:41I come back after one of those matches and he's like, he's like, kid, you've taken years off your career
30:48with that elbow.
30:49Uh, no, sir, Mr. Hamilton, I'll be able to do this forever.
30:53By the time I got the call to come up, I was already walking with a limp.
30:57So, you know, it's old timers know a little bit more than they get credit for sometime.
31:02What's that piece of advice you give to up and coming wrestlers now?
31:06Um, you know, I, I, I try to get them, I, I try to get them to, to, to calm
31:12down a little bit in the sense of all of the crazy, I call them flippy dudes and stuff like
31:22that.
31:23I just, there's wrestling is dangerous enough.
31:30Um, and probably heard me say it like within the course of any match, you're always just a couple of
31:36inches away from something really catastrophic happening.
31:40And when you start doing double backflips off of things and landing on people, that risk goes up exponentially.
31:49Um, you know, I, I, I try to, you know, this level of athlete that's out here today is by
31:56far the greatest in the history of, of our industry.
32:00But what, what happens is, is they, they kind of forget, they forget storytelling and storytelling just isn't about the
32:11angle that the booker comes up with.
32:13Storytelling is how you do your matches and, and the things that you make a priority.
32:19Um, so I, I, I try to focus on getting them to do things athletically, aggressively, but also make sense
32:30if you're a fan watching it.
32:32Cause there's a lot of things you watch and you just go, eh, eh, they lose me because they're trying
32:40to do something that they physically can't.
32:43And even if they can, our audience is, is so fickle.
32:48Something like after you've seen a, let's say I'm going to make this up cause I don't know what the
32:52name of it really is.
32:53But you see a double backflip, half twist gainer onto somebody on the floor and you've seen it two or
32:59three weeks in a row.
33:00And then you're kind of like, okay, I've seen that now.
33:04What do you got for me? Right. Right. So you make your job harder as, as opposed to making the
33:10character.
33:13means something, you know, trying to get the character to evoke some kind of emotion, whether good, bad, or indifferent.
33:20That's the key to long-term is having people invested where they want to see you win, lose, beat somebody
33:29up, get your butt kicked.
33:31You know, there's a fine line, right? There's a fine line between the athleticism and the storytelling aspect.
33:38And I just kind of, you know, I try to get the young guys to just think a little bit
33:43about, a little bit more about the storytelling.
33:45With that said, and with your longevity in this industry, do you think there's a life lesson that pro wrestling
33:52has taught you?
33:55A life lesson that, that you've learned from pro wrestling?
33:59Uh, well, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's, it's like, you just, sometimes you just have to, in life, you
34:07just have to grind it out.
34:09Sometimes you just have to bear the, the bad times and, and, and just like in the, like, oh man,
34:15this guy's been getting beat, getting beat, getting beat, getting beat.
34:18And then finally something happens and he ends up getting a push. Life is the same way, man.
34:23And sometimes you just have to get up every day, embrace the suck and just keep grinding.
34:31And, um, you know, that's, I mean, that's where life and wrestling kind of imitate themselves.
34:38And, you know, it, it just, sometimes it takes longer.
34:41We'll get back to the episode in just a second, but you ever have those days where everything just seems
34:47to be clicking?
34:48You slept well, you worked out, you ate well, you're feeling good.
34:52And then you catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror or on a video call and you're like, man,
34:57I look exhausted.
34:59I don't know what it is. Maybe it's a combination of a bunch of different things, but I can tell
35:03you it's helped me.
35:04It's this, the great from Caldera Lab.
35:07What I like about it is how simple it is.
35:09No complicated skincare routine, no lineup of products.
35:13It's just one product that I use in the morning and then again, before bed.
35:17It takes just a few seconds.
35:19And honestly, the biggest difference is that my skin looks more like how I feel.
35:23I feel great. It looks great.
35:25I look healthier. I look more refreshed, even on days when life gets busy.
35:30You've heard me talk about Caldera Lab before, but if there's one product that I've been using consistently, it's the
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35:48Go to calderallab.com slash Chris and use the code Chris for 20% off your first order.
35:55That's calderallab.com slash Chris.
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37:09I want to go through a few of your moves here.
37:12When you first started doing the Tombstone, you were putting the guy's legs to the side of your head.
37:17Right.
37:18And then it changed to the way that you do it now.
37:22Why did it switch up?
37:24Well, one, I really didn't know how to do it right the first, right?
37:27It's just like, you know, I'm just dumb young and just grabbing guys up.
37:33And, you know, they're hanging over here on the side.
37:36And eventually, I got them squared up and it was much easier to control their body weight and land safer
37:45and land square.
37:47Were there some bad ones that you were like, ooh?
37:50Oh, yeah.
37:52Early on, there were some pretty bad tombstones.
37:57And, you know, it's crazy because I really pride myself on, you know, not hurting people.
38:05But, like, you can go back.
38:07Coco Beware took a hellacious one that, you know, that I kind of blew off when it happened.
38:17I was like, come on, man.
38:18Just suck it up.
38:19And then I watched it back years later and I was like, oh, maybe he had a reason to bitch
38:25about that because that looked gnarly.
38:28So then you just switched it up to, like, this is just a safer way to do it?
38:31Yeah, it's a safer way.
38:32And not only it's a safer way, but it was a more efficient way to do it.
38:36Like, you know, when you do, like, again, with all the, like, we're on the road, but then we're on
38:42the road 20, 25 days out of the month.
38:45You have to figure out ways to minimize the trauma and how to take care of yourself.
38:53And, you know, it was very difficult to not break somebody's neck when they're, you know, all their body weight
39:02is making a hard right.
39:05Yeah.
39:05So once, you know, once I figured out how to get them lined up, it was, it was, it was
39:10better for them and it was a lot easier for me.
39:12Who do you think took the best chokeslam?
39:15And who do you think took the worst chokeslam?
39:18Hmm.
39:19I tell you what, uh, Brock Lesnar's chokeslam is pretty tough to, in fact, I think I give him one
39:28once to, he actually, he actually came out of my hand at the top.
39:33And, uh.
39:34And it's also when you put him down, he bounces.
39:37Yeah.
39:37Off the mat.
39:38Yeah.
39:39He's like 14 feet in the air.
39:41Yeah.
39:41He, he's probably pound for pound the best, uh, chokeslam bump and then worst.
39:49Oh my gosh.
39:56Kali was up there.
39:59Um, yeah, there, there's been a, there's been a few, uh, there's been a few stinkers.
40:05Um.
40:06There's one you gave to Hogan and he didn't get up very high.
40:09Don't mind.
40:11That didn't work for him, brother.
40:15But a fun segment with Hulk Hogan where you're dragging him around behind the motorcycle.
40:20Yeah.
40:21Give me the setup for that because you're dragging him down one hallway.
40:24I'm sure you've got to stop, reset, turn around, drag him back the other way.
40:30Yeah.
40:31Uh, I, I see, there was a, I think there was a point in there somewhere where he had stolen
40:35my motorcycle.
40:36Um, I, again, I don't know chronologically, but there was, you know, he fancied himself as being, you know, uh,
40:45in that biker culture too.
40:47And so somehow or another, I, I drop him and get him all tied up behind my bike.
40:53And I, I'm just cruising through the arena with him, trying to run him into as much stuff as I
40:58could.
40:59It was, uh, yeah, I think that was after he, he tried to steal my bike and it stalled out
41:05on the ramp.
41:06And, um, but yeah, it was, it was a good time because I knew at the end of it, at
41:13the end of this long corridor behind the arena, it opened up into the loading dock.
41:18And I knew what I was trying to do was kind of trying to whip it close enough so that
41:22he would kind of go into the wall.
41:28Um, I, I couldn't quite generate enough speed to get the, the effect that I wanted, but it looked, it
41:35looked pretty good.
41:36Speaking of your motorcycle, what did you think when you saw that photo of Dragon Lee sitting on your motorcycle
41:42the day that you inducted AJ into the hall of fame?
41:45I'm like, are you kidding me? Seriously, that would have not have happened.
41:50That would have not have happened in the two thousands.
41:53And he's got this big grin on his face.
41:54Oh yeah. Like he's, he's just thinking like, Oh, this is the coolest thing in the world.
41:59And, and, and I've, and I've chilled too. Like I could have really had a good time with him.
42:03Didn't you rip him and say you scratched my bike?
42:05Oh, I did. Yeah. And he swore he didn't. I was like, no, I got a big scratch on the
42:09bike.
42:10And I, and it wasn't my bike. So, uh, you know, you will be getting the bill.
42:14And he was like, no, no, no, no amigo. No, I wasn't. I looked and was like, no, I'm just
42:19saying there's a big scratch right on the chrome.
42:21So would you just show up for raw or SmackDown or pay-per-view and there was just a bike
42:25for you?
42:25Uh, for, for a lot of it. And then we had, um, and then we went and had one made,
42:32we actually had, we had a couple bikes made.
42:35And then, um, I don't know if you guys remember, it was all white. It was an all white bike.
42:41Loved it.
42:41It was totally custom made, all my specs, like how I like with eight hangers and Ford controls.
42:48Um, it was, man, it was the most comfortable bike that I think that I, I'd ever ridden.
42:55And, and I had it a maybe two or three weeks and Vince goes, ah, damn, I think we need
43:01to do something to that bike.
43:03I'm like, like, can we, can we sub, can we sub a different bike in instead of taking this one
43:09out?
43:10No, of course not. They'll see that.
43:12So that beautiful pearl motorcycle got pushed off the, off the, off the stage.
43:19And I was just like, oh man, it's like, come on.
43:23Right. Nobody's going to know the difference.
43:24Did you have any mishaps with the bike?
43:27Uh, I had a mishap in Baltimore once where I stole a, uh, I stole a, uh, a police, a
43:34police bike.
43:35So, so it was really, uh, it was really humid.
43:40And I was going to, I was chasing, I was going to chase somebody out of the loading dock onto
43:46the street on a, on a, on a, on a police bike.
43:51And, uh, man, I, I took off and the, you know, it's that really slick concrete.
43:58And it was kind of, um, the concrete was kind of sweating a little bit.
44:02So it was, it was slick and man, I made this turn and I lost the back wheel.
44:09The back wheel went down.
44:12I was fine.
44:14The bike, the bike, I think he lost his back, uh, the back left, uh, uh, his back left bucket.
44:25He lost.
44:26He was happy though.
44:27He didn't care.
44:28He was, the cop was like, this is the coolest.
44:30Hey, will you sign this?
44:32That's awesome.
44:33Yeah.
44:33Yeah.
44:33The saddle bag, but it wasn't saddle bag.
44:35They were made out of plastic, but you've had so many iconic matches, but I'm curious if there's an underrated
44:41match that you don't think enough people talk about.
44:45Oh, wow.
44:47Um, you know, I, I, it's hard to say anymore now because so much content is consumed.
44:57Like, I don't think there's anything that passes through the crack, but one of my favorite matches that I, that
45:02I don't rare.
45:03I rarely talk about, uh, that I thought was just amazing was, um, 2006, no way out with Kurt angle.
45:12Um, they remember.
45:14Yeah.
45:15I, I think, I mean, that match, that match was up there, uh, in that same neighborhood with the Shawn
45:22Michaels match at 25.
45:24He, uh, I mean, we, you got to see something.
45:27You got to see something different from the undertaker.
45:30And I felt like I pushed Kurt in a, in a direction.
45:33Uh, Kurt was a machine, man.
45:35He was so fun to work with.
45:37He's like, he was like the, the, I guess if you, if you're going to,
45:45create a professional wrestler, Kurt, Kurt's your guy, I think, because he had this uncanny ability to make himself look
45:55like a, like a fool backstage in a pre-tape.
45:58Right.
45:58I mean, you remember when he put on the red, white, and blue bandana and sure.
46:03Yeah.
46:03Again, trying to pop me with, but he had the bandana and he had the glasses and he got on
46:10the moped.
46:11Like he wasn't like, this is a legitimate.
46:15Bad ass dude.
46:16Right.
46:17Olympic gold medal.
46:18So he could take just about anybody in his room and time into a pretzel, but was willing to make
46:25himself look like an idiot.
46:28But I'm just telling you at ding, ding, ding, when the bell started and when for a match, dude, you
46:35better have them boots strapped down tight.
46:38Cause you were going to have to go.
46:39I mean, he was a wrestling machine and, and he had, he had all aspects.
46:46He could, he, he was, he was entertaining.
46:49He could cut a promo and you couldn't have a bad match with him.
46:54We've seen these videos recently of your daughter Kaya in the ring.
46:58Oh God, man.
46:59It looks like the fact that she has two hall of fame parents, mom and dad, it looks like it's
47:03been passed down to her.
47:05Uh, future WWE superstar.
47:07Unfortunately, probably.
47:08Yes.
47:09Like I, uh, is that unfortunate, man?
47:12I, I just, well, you know, I wake up every morning and I do a little body assessment, like, you
47:17know, what's working today?
47:19What isn't working?
47:21Um, I, you know, I, I'm not, I'm not discouraging her from it, but those are just kind of the
47:26things that, you know, I, and, and obviously the grind is not like it was when I came up, but
47:32I, I just, I hate thinking of.
47:34Of, of, you know, one of my children having to wake up and be in pain like that.
47:40And that's just being a dad.
47:42Like if it's in her heart and that's what she wants to do, then obviously I will do everything in
47:49my means to make sure that she does it right.
47:52Um, you know.
47:53Looks like she's already got it.
47:55Well, you know, she's kind of stuck on that flippy do stuff.
47:58I don't know.
47:58She's taken, she's taken actually now she's taken my rope walking and added a flip to it.
48:07And, you know, it's almost like, uh, I see what I can do dad.
48:10Like you never did that.
48:12Okay.
48:13All right.
48:14But.
48:15It's always a pleasure to be able to sit down with you and I'll ask you the question I ask
48:19everybody at the end of every interview.
48:22You know, gratitude is a huge thing for me.
48:24So what are three things right now as we sit here that you're grateful for in your life?
48:29Uh, I'm, I'm grateful that I'm, that, that I'm sitting here and there's still enough people that care about what
48:34I did.
48:36Quite a lot of them.
48:38Yeah.
48:39Um, I, I, I'm grateful for my family.
48:42Uh, I, I'm grateful for having an opportunity now to, to spend time with them.
48:48And, uh, man, I'm, and I'm super grateful for my Lord and savior, Jesus Christ, man.
48:55You are one of the best to ever do it.
48:57It's always a pleasure to sit down with you.
48:59So thank you so much.
49:01Thank you, man.
49:01You're, you're the OG brother.
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