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Former PKR vice-president Nik Nazmi Nik Ahmad on Bersama, lost deposits and the Umno resurgence.
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00:04welcome to our podcast on politics today we have an exciting guest he's nick nazmi nick amad he's
00:11the co-founder of bersama and also the former mp for setiawangsa welcome nick to our as a fellow
00:20liverpool fan good to have you actually usually i was thinking of messaging you and to wear
00:26me liverpool baju but i thought then jangan partisan lah better be neutral okay we go straight to the
00:33question how's life how's life as a non-minister non-mp uh well in a way uh it's a bit
00:45more
00:45flexible um i as we were discussing just now i run my own media digital media company so that
00:53occupies a bit of my time uh to cari makan and then uh at the same time obviously bersama uh
01:01still
01:02has a lot of work being a very young party and you know a lot of things are still being
01:06built
01:07so um i spend uh a lot of time um with uh rafizi and with the team um to plan
01:15and to scale up the
01:16party so i would say it has not been like a holiday or anything after stepping down um still a
01:25lot of
01:25work but i think it's a bit more different obviously uh and i still obviously uh serve setiwangsa so i
01:31still have my service center uh people still come to me with complaints with issues and we try to work
01:37with the authorities if we can solve that we i still go down uh meeting the residents and everything so
01:42in
01:42that sense um life goes on okay but how is it to lose power as a minister is there any
01:50difference
01:50or well you know you you i guess um i i've been in politics for a long time i've been
01:59involved one
02:00way or another since i was 19 i'm now 44 so that's uh you know that's what 25 years uh
02:06i work full time
02:08in politics since 2006 so that's been 20 years and then 2008 i got elected so i think um and
02:16i was
02:16you know state assemblyman uh political secretary to mb uh deputy speaker at don state exco mp and
02:26eventually minister so you realize that as you go throughout the you know you go up the pyramid so to
02:33speak um things change uh the way people treat you the way people talk to you and all that but
02:41um losing power yeah you you do feel that there are you know that some people uh perhaps less friendly
02:48okay but because uh before i became a minister they were also less friendly uh so in that sense you
02:56know you know you you know people say now you know who your friends are uh but overall like a
03:01lot of my rest
03:02the residents a lot of ordinary people even a lot of the civil servants who used to work with me
03:07they still reach out they still share they still you know talk to me and and you know they still
03:12invite me i still talk about the environment uh for example um so yeah in a way losing power you
03:18do
03:18see that that that side of it but overall uh you know people there are a lot of genuine people
03:24genuine
03:24friends uh who treat me the same whether i was a minister a yb or just like what i am
03:32now okay you've
03:33been with pkr for more than uh two decades at the your pinnacle you're the vice president how's your
03:40personal relationship and your political relationship with your pkr press former pkr president your pkr
03:49president uh dato suri anwar ibrahim how's how's your relationship what i would say is i haven't
03:55spoken to him when i resigned um we met a few times just before i resigned um and after that
04:06he gave me a
04:08call uh in september i think 2025 uh we had a relatively long chat he asked how i was and
04:17you know and we
04:17discussed some current issues at that time i even said you know some ministers as an observer at that
04:23time saying that you know someone ministers are um it's you know it's uh pulling him down i i said
04:31that
04:31i mean maybe in better words but i did say that you know these ministers are not being helpful to
04:36you
04:37um and we had some discussions and all that so that was the last time we actually spoke after that
04:43uh
04:43uh i haven't uh spoken to him um in one way or another uh since then uh uh all the
04:52way to my
04:52resignation from uh as mp and also leaving the party and to form bersama so is pkr a political enemy
05:00or a political friend of bersama um well you know we've been very clear uh that as far as bersama
05:08is
05:08concerned we are standing alone you know we are not planning to join uh you know we've seen other
05:14new parties being formed but it's always about joining this coalition that coalition but for
05:19bersama we are not interested in coalitions because i think one reason you have a lot of uh disenfranchised
05:25voters is they you know they vote for one party or one coalition but then they realize that suddenly
05:32the parties will work with the enemy and all that and i think you know in 2022 it to a
05:38certain extent
05:39it is it was understandable because there was no majority uh but uh i think the mistake for ph at
05:46that time was to go out and declare that they it may all give the impression that they wanted to
05:52go to
05:52the next general election with bn okay okay and and now you know that that's probably unlikely to happen
05:58right it's it's unlikely to happen so i think that made a lot of things very difficult so that's why
06:03for bersama our stand is that we want to go alone it's it's hard uh pkr became very successful by
06:11you
06:11know working with pass with the ap and all the different parties but for bersama we want to do it
06:15differently so i don't know i mean i wouldn't if you want to describe it as an enemy then not
06:21just pkr
06:21every other party in that sense is an enemy to to bersama but i would say i would phrase it
06:27that you know
06:27bersama standing alone and and not working with any party okay you mentioned amno you you were in
06:33cabinet for what three years is it two and a half years okay two and a half years you sat
06:37with uh
06:38um no ministers uh during cabinet meetings yeah in between i sat between azalina and zamri okay yeah
06:44so when you were sat next to azalina and zamri and then i think zahid is there did you get
06:49any
06:50inkling that um no will go against ph in johor and then negeri samilan at that time we two years
06:58ago
06:58yeah to be honest i've always felt that you know it was more it was the coalition was necessary at
07:10that
07:10time because no party had majority but we all knew that bn and ph have very different ideologies
07:18right we catered to different voter base so i knew that it was going to be very awkward if you
07:25want to
07:26make these parties to stay together not to go beyond um one term um in selangor what the six state
07:34elections
07:34in 2023 i think that was uh that was i think necessary perhaps at that time because it was early
07:40you don't want uh bn ph to be fighting but i i've always felt again that that ph should have
07:47we should
07:47have declared from the beginning we said that okay since no one have the numbers so ph and bn ph
07:52has
07:53the biggest numbers of them all uh bn is was willing to come in gps grs let's work together for
07:58the
07:58country but after elections then we go back to the people and see who gets the mandate if we were
08:04very
08:04clear from beginning it was it was it would be would have been better but i felt that um no
08:10saw that
08:11they were calculating that they wanted to play it that way i felt that it was always ph in particular
08:16pkr
08:18that was hoping that this marriage would go on and on and on when i think you go down to
08:23the
08:24ground you know the thinking of you know uh the umno members and it's very different um say on
08:29datuk si najib's case you ask an umno member you ask a dap member it'll be very different so
08:33you know that it's not going to last so we should have planned for that from the beginning but during
08:39cabinet meeting did you have like ada hin-hin sudah ataupun no well generally it was very i mean
08:46people were very polite i think people uh we had differences here and there but generally it was
08:52quite polite but amno has always been very well organized so amno will always have a pre-counsel
08:57before cabinet which we wanted to do with pkr but did not happen um i'm not sure about the other
09:03parties but amno has always been very organized but they were very polite uh and uh professional
09:10i would say during the cabinet okay we go now to the uh to your first first electoral debut that
09:18is
09:18the johor election yep so what was the lesson learned uh should you all have contested and what
09:26did you all learn i believe we should have contested even with the result perhaps you know we didn't
09:32think we would have gotten uh we would have gotten a better result perhaps so that's in our mind and
09:37then
09:37we went in and that was the result but i think we needed to go in because there were so
09:42many
09:44uh assumptions there were so many you know surveys ideas you know you anecdotal uh stuff you talk to
09:51people and all that and i think we had to test ourselves on the ground because that's actually
09:56what matters right so i think the problem for bersama was that we were very very new uh and while
10:04we i
10:04think we have decent i mean if this was an armed forces we had decent air force because you have
10:10rafizi uh uh myself we've been coming up with statements we've had good uh we have good digital
10:17presence on on our podcast and so that's good and i think we are just as good if not better
10:23than most
10:24other politicians in that sense uh but then again you need your ground troops that's just the air force
10:31we see what's happening in iran right you need people on the ground if you are to win a war
10:36and that is where being a new party uh we had members yes but you know there's no because more
10:43than half of our members are newbies they've never been in any political party so i felt that uh and
10:50you know our candidates also um a few of them were former party members and all that or even held
10:57positions but most are just ordinary people right so that was another shortcoming uh that we had and i think
11:03uh initially people some i mean like some were very positive with us but then they felt that
11:11uh i mean the strong sense was they wanted to teach ph a lesson and i think after a while
11:17people felt
11:17that if you want to do that bn is a better bet because bn can win if they voted for
11:23bersama at that
11:23point they say i can we be sure that they can at least you know put up a fight or
11:28not but bn whatever
11:30it is you know that they are at least they've been there right so i think that was a calculation
11:34for
11:35many voters so in order to make their vote count they decided to give it to uh barisan national not
11:41so much because they love bn uh yeah i mean on is popular and all that but i'm talking about
11:46perhaps
11:47those who are closer to the bersama thinking but they felt that they had to vote bn so that they
11:53can
11:53make sure ph loses okay earlier you said that uh based on antidotes based on survey then you all
12:01contested in uh johor what did the antidotes and survey told you well i think uh overall that one
12:11there's a lot you know because among the malay voters there's a lot who cannot accept amno for one mdb
12:17or
12:18even uh they have very big problems with zahid hamidi i'm talking about malay voters right yes yeah
12:24uh but some of them of course votes for or in the past voted for ph but for a lot
12:31for some of them
12:32uh ph is to i mean they don't trust the ap or anwar ibrahim or whatever i mean that's their
12:39issue yes so
12:40they go to pn uh perikatan national maybe not so much that they're impressed but they feel it's cleaner
12:46it's uh it's better than the other parties uh so when we formed bersama we felt that's quite a big
12:55chunk of this voters were coming to us among the malays uh indians also have been quite positive right
13:01and there's been some issue with ph and the indian voters but when it came to general election the sense
13:08we get is that a lot of the malay voters especially uh going back to what i said they feel
13:13that if they
13:14vote for bn at least bn has a chance of winning if they vote for bersama it's new they are
13:19not sure
13:19they don't want it to waste and allow ph to win so that's where some of the because so you
13:24know people
13:24change their minds or people make different calculations uh and again i think the lack of ground
13:30of volunteers on the ground being a new party and all that i mean we hear stories of candidates uh
13:37our
13:37candidates uh you know meeting some old chinese uncle or old malay uncle say oh don't worry i
13:42voted for you or uh i voted for ph because some of them were ex ph uh activists okay so
13:48in the mind
13:49so this is you know people sometimes just you know mark and and without thinking so they thought that
13:53they like this guy and this guy was used to be ph so they voted for ph but this guy
13:58is a
13:58bersama now okay and bersama is a new brand so i think that is time that's about time
14:03like it's a function of time that we need to improve ourselves and also the brand okay
14:07johor you've done it negeri sembilan you you've you've skipped it and your bersama has announced
14:14that it's going to contest in melaka correct so why melaka i mean you did badly in johor so maybe
14:21perhaps skip that too or what i think the idea now is that for negeri sembilan uh we because you
14:30know resources are limited uh time and all that we still i mean you look at the people who appear
14:37for
14:38bersama it's still mostly rafizi and myself uh shukri the president yes but there's not enough uh senior
14:45leaders and all that so we feel that to go to negeri sembilan straight out of johor you know
14:51and there's a lot of money that's required and all that would be quite a tall order
14:55but melaka again is one of the seat one of the states that we feel that we have potential this
15:00again melaka melaka traditional is another amno stronghold yes but melaka has also flipped uh 2018
15:07right so uh and then 2022 or 2021 it flipped again to uh umno so which means that it is
15:16quite a dynamic
15:17state so we decide to stand in melaka uh because in order for us i mean melaka is one but
15:24also in order
15:25for us to go to uh the 16th general election uh i think in real battle hardened uh mode in
15:33proper
15:34preparedness we need to put uh our teams on the ground a few times more so melaka provides us that
15:41opportunity but also i think that melaka in itself is will be an interesting uh state election why uh
15:49well i guess for melaka the fact that one i mean is the demographic the demography is very similar to
15:56what bersama is all about multi-racialism and all that but with a very strong umno component right
16:01uh and umno there is includes the youth leader lah akmar saleh right so so it's all very quite i
16:07think
16:07quite interesting um and you know melaka is very dynamic it is a very dynamic state perhaps even more so
16:15than uh negeri milan it's much more urbanized um and we want to see how it goes i mean the
16:22urban malay vote
16:24whether we would be able to uh garner it or not so melaka would be that test for us
16:29so how many bersama yb from melaka we will see we will see we will announce soon uh you know
16:36i mean
16:37how many will you all will win can win or will it won't be easy it won't be easy i
16:42mean we we know it
16:43won't be easy but uh you know for us it's like i said to test the machinery to test our
16:49systems to
16:50create brand awareness uh meaning that uh the next round general election we go to melaka for
16:57quite a number of people in melaka they've seen the flag and they've known what we stand for so i
17:01think um winning i think not easy but we will do our best and and uh you know put out
17:09the best
17:10candidates as well okay this criticism or this advice i think you hear it almost every day the the ph
17:17crowd or the crowd that is against just say bn and against uh pn what they say is you all
17:25can't win
17:26but what you're doing is you're just a spoiler so why don't you just go back to pkr strengthen pkr
17:32to fight the real enemy that's sure yeah so how do you answer that and people message me and said
17:40tell nick do and rafizi do not be stubborn just go with that yeah that reform agenda yeah so uh
17:51i don't
17:51see the reform agenda being carried by pkr anymore i mean i think that that's a problem for us right
17:56i mean we've been stubborn with pkr for 20 over years when uh the obvious thing when i joined 2001
18:03you know the if i was ambitious and all that i would have just joined umno i mean i that
18:09was like
18:09a you know certain thing that you know you're already in power the positions are there money is there and
18:15all that but we were not interested in all that um we wanted to really make a difference
18:20uh we were not dreaming of being ministers uh we were dreaming of making a change right uh i like
18:28the idea of a multi-racial
18:29party and all that so i think that's one to establish i think pkr's values is very i mean it
18:33doesn't seem to be
18:34holding true to those values anymore but the other part i think that people need to recognize is
18:42is persama is small we are new you know we have 28 000 members pkr has 1 million members
18:49uh if this is you know if i want to compare to something you have two big fast food restaurant
18:57chains uh they're operating they've been fighting each other for 20 years whatever and suddenly they
19:05you know fast food operator a fast food operator b um and suddenly fast food operator b is complaining
19:11that they are starting to make losses right and they are blaming this new stall small stall warung that
19:18is opening just nearby um that's attracting some customers but you know we are perhaps still an
19:25enterprise and they are berhad okay so how do you blame us for anything i mean if if there's anything
19:32one is that maybe your food is not great anymore you your food used to be great people used to
19:37come to
19:38your shop uh now people come less maybe because you're not giving either the food is not great or the
19:43service is not great right and we are perhaps i mean offering something but it's nothing you can't
19:50compare us right if you are you are having a big menu we probably have one or two dishes that
19:54are just sustaining us uh for now um that's one but you're also assuming that everyone that goes to
20:01our small store was supposed to go to your shop they might have just stayed at home and cooked or
20:06they
20:07might have gone to the uh the other shop if we were not around so to me that's a lot
20:13of assumptions at
20:14the end of the day any political party just if you operate any kedai makan is your job to attract
20:21people to come to your store to your shop you don't blame someone else uh for people not coming
20:27right i think that's something lazy uh that you do because if you're doing good people won't come to
20:31our store that there's a point i mean okay assuming that they all wanted to go to your store uh
20:36the
20:37presence of uh us wouldn't have made a difference and in joho yes i think there's two seats where uh
20:44ph could
20:46have won uh assuming making the assumption that all the bersama votes go to ph but there's i think one
20:52bn seat that is the flip side where the bn majority is smaller than the bersama vote uh but the
20:59fact is
21:00we've i mean bersama lost all deposits for our 15 candidates but also the fact remains that ph lost
21:07deposits for what seven i think seats uh for bersama to lose deposit is not a surprise people forget
21:16joho has changed hands before 2018 and yes 2022 state election early in the year bn won big like
21:23this round but at the end of the year during the general election parliamentary ph did very well pkr
21:29managed to get seven parliamentary seats the biggest of any any state uh in joho right so i think
21:37ph has to reflect why they things did not work out uh for ph this time around so there's no
21:42chance
21:43before g16 that warung that warung will be will join franchise b never franchise a franchise b
21:52franchise c will we will be on our own i asked you about another uh big franchise but now i
21:58consider
21:59they're a bit level one slightly bigger coffee shop la kedai kedai burger la okay i think that's what
22:05happened to bersatu so bersatu you think will it be on its own as a as a burger punya
22:13kedai or will it join franchise b which is uh it's called uh ph burger
22:23yeah i don't know i mean i hear all sorts of rumors right so you know the split in bersatu
22:28i mean in
22:29fact i recently interviewed uh uh one amat fashal okay which is with the other one yes wawasan
22:36so i think uh bersatu is going through some serious uh crisis as well because the vast majority of
22:42MPs with the other side um and the main the backbone of perikatan nasional uh what they call that past
22:52is also i think focusing on wawasan as opposed to bersatu so that creates real problems um for the
22:59party so but i don't think one is that yes i mean one clearly i think for bersatu they they
23:08have
23:10no intention to be on their own yes yeah okay so they think uh like most parties in malaysia about
23:16joining a coalition so you hear all sorts of rumors which i don't know because now i'm no longer inside
23:22but you hear that they're you know bersatu talking to pkr or ph i don't know um and and i
23:30mean at the
23:31end of the day tan sri muhiddin is still a former prime minister uh it may just be a few
23:35MPs but he
23:36still has some presence what whether that will be enough to sustain them or not i'm not sure right but
23:44what i can be sure of is that uh you know the malay party scene is very saturated i mean
23:51wawasan
23:51claims to be multi-racial but pretty much it is a malay uh based party so uh it's not easy
23:57to survive
23:57you know to have if there's if you know past is strong um no is picking up um and then
24:03you have
24:03wawasan and all that then people will start to ask why do you need uh bersatu anymore right so i
24:07think
24:08that that's the challenge for uh bersatu okay use this phrase um no is picking up and um no did
24:14very well
24:14in uh johor they're back in i mean yeah they're now in power but do you think that's just a
24:21fluke that
24:21because it's johor okay negeri is negeri because they combine but then in just say g16 because they
24:30roughly won 26 npc's isn't it no do you think they can do better or how do you see are
24:37they back
24:38well i think my sense is that simply because the other parties are in crisis pkr bersatu
24:49pn i mean of past in itself is not so much but past gets affected and pn gets affected because
24:55of the whole bersatu thing um so i think be um no strength has been like to be less problematic
25:03compared to the other parties right so i think they've been and they've been able also to
25:06consolidate to get people back like kj and all that uh but i think they should not underestimate
25:17the loss of malay votes because of one mdb okay and uh and i mean the cases uh with regards
25:24to
25:24datuk sri zahid is also hanging and and people are you know that doesn't win them new voters um
25:30um for um no so i think that is a challenge my sense is i think they will do better
25:35than what
25:35they did in 2022 anyway um and but there's the the lack of choice and all that that and also
25:43will
25:44benefit them um but how real and how you know strong the the foundation of this um no resurgence remains
25:52to
25:52be seen whether it's something that is still very fragile you know it looks strong when they may win i
25:57don't know i don't know how many seats but certainly better than 26 uh but whether that is something
26:05that is really strong or something that just looks good for now uh that that is debatable so i think
26:12uh the issue is like i said corruption is still an issue uh i mean kj faced problems when he
26:19went back
26:19because i think people like his style when he was uh independent podcaster and all that of course he was
26:25the
26:25one who was sacked from um no but the moment he went back and he has to be doing things
26:30uh in line
26:31with the president and everything he lost a lot of uh support uh from the independent minded voters
26:37right so i don't think um no has it sorted as well right uh but for now they are the
26:44strongest of all
26:44the parties that you see at least in at least in peninsula yeah not pass i thought pass was stronger
26:49well pass is stronger pass is true pass is stronger but i think pass has its own dilemma
26:56uh because i think uh haji hadith's calculations you know how uh okay i mean they're good with um no
27:03now
27:03right but you know in the long run pass and um no will never be able to live happily ever
27:06after because
27:08they are fighting for the same ground um when one is weak they will work together uh but when one
27:14is
27:15strong they will step i mean one will start stab them in the back and that has happened many times
27:19since pass was back in uh barisan the first time in the 70s so i think pass the problem is
27:28because
27:28they have this idea of ulama leadership and haji hadith whatever it is haji hadith is relatively highly
27:35regarded as a ulama the same way as tog guruni aziz and all that but who's next i mean you
27:41i guess you have
27:41idris ahmad but there are two poster boys dr sam suri and also sanusi they are not ulama yeah so
27:50how
27:50do you gel those things right uh so i think pass will also find that as a a challenge because
27:57people
27:57say okay i mean so it seems now they are selling hamzah right uh and they remove sam suri as
28:03the
28:03opposition leader yes but so sam suri i think didn't even manage to go to parliament as opposition
28:08leader shortest one shortest one so i think people will say why aren't you taking the lead why do you
28:13have to hide behind some other party right i mean i guess they will say yeah but some people don't
28:17like
28:17us then why don't you adjust yourself uh you know not just be happy to be strong in the east
28:22coast and
28:23all that but to actually be seen as acceptable to everyone uh of course you know sanusi is has his
28:30controversies admittedly but he has charisma uh some some suri is less so but he is seen as
28:36educator you know went to do his phd in the uk so i think pass needs to figure out um
28:43what it wants to
28:45be is it just an islamic movement type of thing or they want to be a serious political party that
28:50can
28:50produce uh the prime minister of malaysia okay earlier you mentioned one mdb and it was tease the next
28:58bombshell who looks like it might be the next one ndb it is the tabung haji rci record but for
29:08me it looks
29:08like it's a non-bombshell and there's no boogeyman okay uh to make the public angry over the uh the
29:18losses
29:19in tabung haji so how do you see this tabung haji uh issue in this negeri sembilan election which is
29:27tomorrow or even in the future well yeah like you said i mean i think you know tabung haji i
29:34think
29:34cost um no a lot of support before 2018 i mean it was seen as a one mdb and i
29:40think one mdb to be
29:41fair for some malays i mean okay of course they are angry you see all the luxury and all that
29:47taxpayers money but tabung haji because it's known you know for many people in the kampung they may not
29:52even save money they don't have any other saving except for tabung haji because they want to perform
29:57the hutch and tabung haji traditionally has been the best uh it has been very well designed um
30:04many countries envy tabung haji as an institution they manage the pilgrims they they the money is
30:11invested well and all that so when uh you know when aziz rahim was appointed you know a politic and
30:15umno
30:16politician and all the stories you hear i think umno suffered a lot and it because people think
30:21that tabung haji mara and all that these are felda uh felda these are bumi putra or malay
30:29institutions um it's emotive right things that i remember you know we went overseas we would be
30:35proud of when people say oh malaysia you have tabung haji and all that so a lot of malays were
30:40very pissed
30:40off with that and that affected umno and i think perhaps just as much as one mdb because one mdb
30:44is
30:45something new and all that in 2018 yes okay now is 2026 2027 2027 so and and uh so i
30:55think the the
30:56whole thing was uh of course they were trying to create all this funny funny uh spin about you know
31:03when it was during the ph era and all that that's from the umno side and it was actually umno
31:07bnpn
31:08that pushed for this rci uh it wasn't during the ph era that's one and and two but
31:14the results came out i think 2022 i mean the report was ready people then will ask why is it
31:21that
31:21this government only decide to reveal it now right and and and the way you know it was very it
31:28seemed
31:28political and i think that's a problem for the current government the madani government is that
31:33it is seen as political with the negeri milan uh vote happening i don't think it will
31:38in negeri milan it will have a major impact it's two last minute anyway and you know the the the
31:43report it's so thick yes there will be but there will be commentators right there will be people who
31:49will uh give their version but there's also the other side because meaning the umno uh pass will
31:55also give their version the ph the or the independent accountants will give their version so there's
32:00there are many versions and people will just be you know if you're on social media you're stuck in your
32:04fyp if you don't see rafizi you don't see rafizi uh and if you don't see anwar ibrahim you don't
32:10see
32:10anwar ibrahim right so so to me it won't then make a lot of dent uh in in politics uh
32:16with the tabong
32:17haji report so yeah i think the fact that suddenly it seemed political right and i mean even the
32:24previously when you know i remember many it was even asked by the former minister mujahid yes uh with
32:30regards to because he wanted all this to be out so he wanted it to be you know revealed and
32:35the
32:35government's official answer has always been is osa and we all know everything is osa until the
32:40government decides that it can be revealed so that is a very silly answer that is osa so i think
32:45that's
32:45why people feel that it's political uh you know it's a political stunt uh not i mean not belittling
32:51the damage done to tabong haji uh but i think it's a bit too late to move the needle politically
32:58okay um yesterday i had a conversation with a political analyst and then they were talking
33:03about uh tabong haji and also that um it looks like ph is in trouble and then the fact that
33:11the
33:11gloves they said gloves are out they're going to whack umno do you see any arrests in the next few
33:19days or few weeks i don't know i mean i think because it's a very delicate situation right uh i
33:28my sense is ph wants the term to go to the end or at least until mid next year or
33:37something right
33:39if and obviously i think amno wants it to be earlier and that's the whole point of having this state
33:44election separately and everything so if you ask me it's a very delicate thing that they have to play
33:53if they are too rough then umno might just say so be it right but they need to damage i
34:00mean that's
34:00the thing i think the mistake of ph is that for so long they have deluded themselves to think that
34:07this was a happily ever after marriage if they said that we had to be together because we didn't have
34:12the numbers people accept that i remember people were very happy uh people were very happy not to
34:17have pn in government i mean i think especially among urban malays among non-malays but and rightfully
34:24so ph had the most number of seats right so ph should play a role there but they if they
34:30said very clear
34:31okay this is a one term uh madani unity government okay we'll work together we'll be professional uh we'll
34:37serve the people but we know that uh you know we are appealing to different things the word najib
34:43to ph voters who have a different impact than to the bn voters you know that so you can't stay
34:49on and
34:49on because of of this uh conflicting things uh the word the ap right i mean obviously for the ap
34:55it's
34:56good but for umno it's bad so if it's so emotive you know you can't last so you should have
35:01said that
35:01this is a one-term government okay and this is okay we take the bits from our manifesto because no
35:06one
35:06has the numbers uh i mean let's i mean uec is controversial there are other things and bn's
35:12manifesto was rather progressive in 2022 ph and all that combined gpsc and then you list out okay
35:18because since we are a unity government we will take the best from the manifesto and these are the
35:2420 items that we will deliver in this five years after that we'll go back to the people and you
35:28judge
35:28who should uh rule if there's no majority again then we talk again right but they were so like no
35:34we
35:35want to last forever we want to stay this is like i mean they were you know phbn is a
35:39forever thing
35:39and i think that was the mistake so now when suddenly you want to take off your gloves when you
35:45were
35:45singing love songs for so many years it looks very desperate and it becomes a bit too late
35:52i think a lot of ph voters are very disillusioned and for the bn voters it just confirms you know
35:58why
35:59they can't work with ph so it is not good for the politics okay you said that uh anwar will
36:06want to
36:07to finish his term whereas um no one said uh the g16 uh sooner sooner what does bersama wants
36:17we don't matter because uh you're talking about the prime minister and you're talking about okay
36:22but do you prefer soon as soon yeah uh just say october g16 or do you rather it get uh
36:30until the end
36:31because you need time or i think uh how does it go into your calculation i guess i mean a
36:37bit more time
36:38would be good definitely uh but i mean for us we have to be ready whenever elections are called i
36:42mean we
36:42know that it's uh you know this is something elections when elections are is something beyond our
36:49control uh we are i think our preparation is as if elections are going to happen this year
36:56that's as far as bersama is concerned um the rest and anything else is a bonus okay my last question
37:03and very serious question do you think liverpool
37:08will win the epl and also the champions league wow okay uh i i didn't follow much of epl last
37:19year
37:19when liverpool was not performing yeah yeah yeah switch off so uh i well you know we bought a lot
37:27of
37:27good players uh the start of last season um and and uh true enough you know it did not have
37:34a happy ending
37:34yeah but i i you know i like the the new coach i mean i think he's done well his
37:40way of playing and
37:41all that um of course i mean i hope that we can uh win and go all the way i
37:48mean i certainly the squad
37:49is uh liverpool is one of the better teams and you know compared to the league uh so hopefully this
37:57this uh
37:58we we can see a good result i mean we were surprised i mean i was surprised when we were
38:02able to win it the
38:02first season after clock uh so you know i think that we have a really good team uh younger team
38:11now i
38:11mean salah has obviously that is a major vacuum but perhaps it can allow other people uh to step in
38:19and maybe less of the you know when people like someone like salah was so powerful uh it also it
38:24made it
38:25difficult i mean last season showed it made it very difficult for the coach uh for slot at that time
38:31to do
38:31his things so with uh i mean of course we miss salah but i think um we can see a
38:37new generation of of
38:39liverpool players to prove themselves okay how about champions league champions league uh champions league
38:44yeah i think can can i think it's easier of course because it's a knockout yeah compared to the epl
38:50epl is
38:50very competitive okay uh we've got any last words uh on our podcast anything you want anything any last
38:56words uh well i think um for those who uh you know want to see some things being done differently
39:05you
39:05know i think uh that's why we are doing bersama uh we've always believed in the values it's not about
39:13power alone or being or positions alone of course power positions allow us to do things but if it's just
39:21about power and positions then you are you know then uh it made no reason for uh me to join
39:30uh pkr in
39:32the dark of the difficult days right so that's why when we feel that it's no longer useful we've decided
39:38or faithful to those values we decided to start from scratch it's tough but um it's fun it's like having
39:45a
39:45political startup uh disrupting the political market uh and hopefully by by doing this malaysians
39:53will see a new generation of younger politicians not just about rafizi and myself we are not young
39:59chickens and spring chickens that's the that's the term we're not spring chickens anymore but uh the hope
40:05is that we would be able to groom a younger generation of politicians who can better represent what
40:11malaysians want compared to a lot of the veterans that you see dominating malaysian politics today
40:18i'm very tempted to ask you so i'll ask do you think you can retain setia bangsa yes it won't
40:25be easy
40:26but uh i do believe uh that i can retain by working hard and continuing to serve uh the people
40:32of
40:32city wanna say okay thanks nick so much for your insight thanks for watching and uh this concludes our
40:40uh podcast for today thanks
40:43you
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