- 5 weeks ago
“I believe that an actor is a soldier of the story,” says The Odyssey star Jon Bernthal (Menelaus) as he joins GQ to revisit some of the most iconic characters from his career so far: from his portrayal of Frank Castle in the MCU’s The Punisher to his role as Menelaus in Nolan’s epic fantasy The Odyssey.“I really love the guy,” says Bernthal of The Odyssey and Spider-Man: Brand New Day co-star Tom Holland as he reflects on filming two consecutive blockbuster films together.
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00:05The Walking Dead.
00:07If that's on you, you tell him what you want or tell him nothing at all.
00:11You're his wife.
00:12And Carl.
00:13We dragged him into this.
00:14I love Carl.
00:15He thinks he hates me.
00:16I'm trying to put some distance.
00:17I'm trying to make this easier.
00:18This ain't easy on any of us, least of all me.
00:21I'm the one who loses here.
00:22I think it was the first chance that I got an opportunity to play a character with a real beginning,
00:31middle and end.
00:32An unbelievable journey with real poppable touchstones on the way.
00:37These sort of like buoys along the water of being with your best friend, falling in love with your best
00:42friend's wife, the zombie apocalypse, your best friend coming back.
00:45There were just these sort of touchstones that were laid out in the comic.
00:48And then just sort of being in the hands of Frank Darabont.
00:51I'd worked with, you know, Polanski at that point.
00:53I'd worked with Oliver Stone.
00:55I'd worked with some real masters.
00:57But I'd never been given this, you know, sort of level of material and this big of a part.
01:04You know, there was a humility to that show when it first started.
01:08You know, Frank always said, you know, if we're out in the woods and you're, you know, you're playing the
01:13zombie apocalypse.
01:14If one person isn't taking it 100% serious, the whole thing sort of disappears.
01:18And we really had that attitude about us.
01:21You know, there were no trailers.
01:23There was no craft services.
01:24We ate our lunch in the woods.
01:25There were snakes.
01:26There were ticks.
01:27There were huge accidents.
01:29You know, it was a no frills situation.
01:32Everyone was there because they believed in that script so much and they believed in Frank so much.
01:36It was these young people in the business as I was just starting to start my family and just becoming
01:43a husband and then becoming a father.
01:45These people that were a little bit further along in their path, these young, unbelievable artists who were family first
01:51people like I am, who really showed me that it was possible to get to pour everything into your art
01:56and pour everything into your family.
01:57And not only was that enough, but that's the only way to do it, to just have those two avenues
02:03and that's it.
02:04I was so grateful for it in every way.
02:06And I know that there is no way I would ever be able to be doing what I'm doing if
02:10it wasn't for The Walking Dead and if it wasn't for Frank Darabont.
02:14Shane was the first character that I got to play on film that really turned his back on the audience.
02:18I was given the opportunity to play a character who did truly despicable and awful things, but did it for
02:24reasons that he really believed in and that he thought were lofty.
02:28I just don't believe in good people and bad people.
02:30I just don't.
02:32And I think behind every monster, you know, there's shame, there's guilt, there's sadness.
02:38I tell my kids all the time, you know, somebody's acting out, somebody's being mean, somebody's being unhappy, somebody's being
02:44brutal.
02:45There's a hole inside of them.
02:46There's something, there's pain inside of them.
02:48That's where it's coming from.
02:50And Shane was the first character that I got to explore that really gave me the permission and the landscape
02:56and the runway to dive into all that and to explore all of that and to explore a really, really
03:02complicated man that, you know, some could really get behind.
03:05But also, you know, to play him in a way that to have the courage to turn my back on
03:09the audience, to have my courage to be truly despicable.
03:12But knowing that the level of writing and the level of filmmaking and hopefully the level of the performance would
03:18also show why he's doing it and might be able to tug on the audience to find some empathy for
03:24that person.
03:24And it's a code in which I live my life.
03:27And I'm so grateful for so many of these characters that I've gotten to play because it is completely in
03:32line with how I live.
03:33I believe in every human being there's a little innocent kid in there and it's never too late.
03:39You can always get somebody to come back.
03:40I really believe that.
03:43The Wolf of Wall Street.
03:47I'm telling you right now, I ain't going to him, okay?
03:49I'm not a fucking Schwarzer.
03:50I don't do fucking pickups, all right?
03:51Now listen to me.
03:52We meet someplace that I fucking say and you tell that fucking piece of shit he comes correct.
03:56I will.
03:57He comes in all fucking loopy and fucked up.
03:59I swear to God, I'm a match that douchebag's teeth.
04:01I'm a fucking match.
04:02Who's fucking teeth in?
04:03Who's fucking teeth in the mouth?
04:04Yeah, everything changed for me after working with Mr. Scorsese, you know.
04:09You could feel from being there how sacred it was, how everyone who was there was literally the best at
04:16what they did.
04:17But there was a real sense that anything could happen at any time.
04:21There was a real, not just appetite for inclusion and improvisation, but it was demanded.
04:30I had a real dear friend of mine who had done a film with Marty earlier.
04:34And, you know, he said his one regret was being in such reverence that he didn't feel like he didn't
04:41have the courage to kind of go down and throw down and explore and try things and be willing to
04:46sort of risk and look like a fool in front of everyone.
04:49And I was really grateful for that piece of advice because, you know, I really went for it.
04:55I remember specifically there was a scene that had no dialogue, that Marty wasn't even there for.
05:02My character working out in the backyard and the two guys come to buy drugs for him.
05:06And, you know, it ended up becoming sort of this iconic line like, hey, ma, we got chicken or what?
05:10Hey, ma, we got chicken or what?
05:12It was never even supposed to be my mother's house.
05:14They just, you know, wired us for sound just in case.
05:16And again, because everybody was so damn good on that film.
05:20It's a Scorsese film.
05:21So every single person is the best of the best.
05:24And even though there was no lines written in the scene, it was supposed to be something we were going
05:28to shoot in five minutes.
05:29It was just supposed to be a shot of me working out.
05:31We worked out this whole relationship and, you know, yelling to the mother in the house.
05:35And I remember the next day we were shooting some giant orgy scene and I was buck naked on a
05:39couch.
05:40And Marty walked in and he said to me, man, I saw what you did yesterday.
05:44It was great.
05:44It was great.
05:45And just to hear your heroes say that.
05:47But I remember right after that, there was a, I've talked about it before,
05:51but there was sort of the scene where Leo is laying it all out for his buddies about, you know,
05:56the penny stocks.
05:57And, you know, it was all these sort of low level drug dealers.
06:02And, you know, I remember walking in that day and Leo's security for that day was a New York City
06:10police officer
06:12who had had a job interview with a real Jordan Belfort back in the day.
06:16And he had shared this story with Leo saying that the entire interview consisted of him handing him a pen.
06:22And he said, sell me this pen.
06:24And when Leo walked on the set that day, he told us that story right before the cameras were rolling.
06:28And in the spirit of the piece, Leo just brought that into the scene.
06:31Sell me this pen.
06:32And I grabbed the pen and I said, you want me to sell you this pen?
06:34And we went into the whole supply and demand thing.
06:37Boom.
06:38Sell me that pen.
06:39Watch.
06:39Go on.
06:39Want me to sell this fucking pen?
06:41That's my boy right there.
06:42This pen.
06:42You can fucking sell anything.
06:43Why don't you do me a favor?
06:44Why don't you name down that napkin for?
06:46I don't have a pen.
06:48Exactly.
06:48Supply and demand.
06:49You know what I'm saying?
06:50He's creating urgency.
06:52You know, in most movies, it's just not like that.
06:54There's not just this spirit of play that anything can happen.
06:57You know, without talking to anybody, I just asked for an empty ketchup bottle.
07:00So I added to the frustration of the scene that everybody had a cheeseburger and I got my cheeseburger last
07:06because I told the woman who was playing the waitress, please give me my cheeseburger last.
07:10So I was annoyed about that.
07:11And then I was annoyed that there was no ketchup.
07:13And then I just threw the ketchup bottle up against the wall.
07:16And in any other film, you would have had to have discussions.
07:19You would have had to get permission.
07:20But, you know, Marty just ran and said, OK, I want two cameras on a ketchup bottle.
07:24One, you know, that sort of excitement that anything can happen.
07:27That was every single day on that film.
07:30And I think that I've been chasing that ever since.
07:33When Marty not only gave me permission to do it, but applauded it and loved it and encouraged it,
07:40that changed my whole acting style.
07:42That's the way I love to work.
07:43It's the only way I really do work now.
07:46And it, yeah, it changed everything.
07:50And I'm so grateful for that experience.
07:55Fury.
08:20You know, they say there's nothing closer in the military than a tank unit.
08:26Because you're just so crammed together.
08:29You know, and that was eight months.
08:31The five of us in that tank, I know what each one of those guys smells like.
08:34I know how they breathe.
08:35I've seen them go to the bathroom.
08:37I've seen them eat.
08:38I've seen them sleep.
08:38I've seen them suffer.
08:39I've seen them fall apart.
08:41David Ayer is completely singular in terms of process.
08:46You know, he has his cast, you know, fight each other every day.
08:49The rehearsal process is vicious.
08:52We were, you know, pushed to attack each other.
08:54We had to abandon any sort of like kind of creature comforts.
08:58Like, you know, the internet or TV or restaurants or any of those kinds of things.
09:01You know, again, under the umbrella of safety to try to get as close as it could be.
09:08To try to have some sliver of an understanding of what it would be like to go through hell in
09:12a tin can.
09:14You know, I mean, that's really what it was.
09:16What do you mean you're going to hold this?
09:17The tank's busted.
09:19The tank's fucking busted, Top.
09:21Yeah, you said that.
09:21Top.
09:22What are you doing?
09:22What do you want to do?
09:23You want to sit here?
09:24I'm going to hold this crossroad.
09:25You want to sit here?
09:25Hold off an SS battalion?
09:26No, it's not what I want to do, but it's what we're doing.
09:28There's five of us.
09:28Hit your fighting position.
09:29Mount up.
09:30Hit your fucking fighting position when we ain't going to tell you how we're going to fight.
09:33It's this sacred responsibility.
09:35It's this unbelievable vitality and how important it was to David, you know, as a veteran to,
09:40you know, have World War II vets there, you know, for us to sit and talk to.
09:43To have, you know, Kevin Vance, Navy SEAL, you know, to be a part of every single frame,
09:48to be part of our training.
09:49I don't know that I've ever gotten as close to a group of people, you know, in a film
09:54as I had that group.
09:55You know, again, in that same line of working with Marty, you know, to do each film, to
10:00do each project, like it will be your last, to be willing to kind of leave it all on the
10:04field.
10:05And if I never work again, this is what I want everyone to see.
10:08I'm willing to give it all.
10:10I'm willing to give it all.
10:11And that's really what that one was.
10:13And the level of commitment that was demanded reshaped my way of working going forward.
10:22And I'm so grateful for that opportunity.
10:27Punisher.
10:45I remember being in Ireland, you know, with Tom Holland and Stanley Webber on this movie.
10:51And I'd been working with Tom on his Spider-Man auditions.
10:54And, you know, I think through satellite phone, I got a call saying they wanted, you know,
10:59they were considering me for Frank Castle and they wanted me.
11:01And I didn't know who Frank Castle was.
11:03And I heard it was Marvel.
11:04And I immediately was like, you know, a superhero.
11:06I don't know if that's for me, you know.
11:08And then they sort of explained who Frank was and what it was about and what that story
11:12was.
11:12I'll never forget Tom Holland saying, yeah, his wife and kids were gunned down right in
11:18front of him.
11:18And that's what made him who he was.
11:23And, you know, I said it a million times.
11:26I just could never begin to try to take that on if I wasn't a father and a husband first.
11:31You know, first and foremost, that's who I am.
11:33And just even the thought, just beginning to think if somebody took them from me, you know,
11:39that feeling, like that's the feeling.
11:40As soon as I felt that, you know, I've done years, you know, my life, you know, kind of
11:48managing and understanding, you know, kind of anger and rage and the trouble that that
11:54can get you into in the dark corners that that can put you in.
11:57And it's been such a gift for me to be able to put all of that into my work and
12:02to have
12:02that work for me, not against me.
12:04And so when I started thinking about what it would be to play Frank, something happened
12:08inside me.
12:09Sometimes you read an incredible script or you listen to a song or you look at a painting
12:14and something happens inside of you that that scares you, that lifts you up, that affects
12:18your, you know, the way your heart beats.
12:20And that's what happened when I started thinking about what happened to this guy.
12:24And it's still that kernel that inspires me and that interests me because I do think there
12:28is Frank Castle in all of us.
12:30I really do think that.
12:31And I think when I see people, parents who are really supposed to be parents who have
12:35just this utter and complete devotion and commitment to their children and to their family,
12:42people who live like that know it.
12:45You can immediately recognize it in each other.
12:47It's an understanding, but you either have that or you don't.
12:50And I think if you have that, then what happened to Frank and what Frank is going through is
12:54unbelievably relatable and again, gives you an opportunity to really turn your back in
12:59the audience, to defy likability, to defy pleasantries, to defy any sort of sense of are you
13:09with me or not?
13:10He doesn't care because this is what it's about.
13:12But that thing, I promise you, you're going to understand.
13:14You're going to empathize with.
13:18Dad, this Hook.
13:21Please, Dad.
13:23Third.
13:24Come on.
13:26Please.
13:28Dad.
13:29So look, I didn't write that for my daughter to do it.
13:32You know, there was another actor who was supposed to do it and then she ended up not being
13:36able to do it and Marvel was having a hard time finding the right person.
13:40and my daughter's really not interested in being an actor.
13:43The director, Ray, who's my dear friend,
13:45who we've worked together obviously a lot,
13:47you know, just said, what about Addie?
13:48Would she make a tape?
13:49And so she said she'd make a tape,
13:51but I had to promise not to show it to anyone.
13:53And then she made it and I was like,
13:54holy moly, this is really good.
13:56And then I said, baby, can I just show it to Ray?
13:59And she knows Ray, she said, okay.
14:01And then I said, look, baby,
14:02I might have to show it to a few more people.
14:03She eventually was okay with it.
14:06But, you know, this thing that I do,
14:10yes, I get to feed my family and provide for my family.
14:14And I'm so grateful for that.
14:16But it also costs my family a ton.
14:18Like my family gives me everything, you know,
14:23in order to be able to do this.
14:24And there's not one second that they're not with me
14:29while I'm doing it.
14:30And I'm doing it for them every second.
14:32And, you know, and I know my wife,
14:38you know, to, to hold it down the way that she does
14:42while I'm out doing this is every,
14:45we're a team, we're a team.
14:47And, and, you know, so the, the,
14:49the logistics of that, of doing this part,
14:52yes, my daughter gets to come, let's go,
14:54let's go for cupcakes and ice cream.
14:56And you're in New York.
14:57It just couldn't be that.
14:59And so it really needed to be,
15:00I couldn't see her and how selfish is that?
15:03Right.
15:03But I knew I couldn't see her until I saw her at that grave.
15:07And I just had these wonderful people in my life,
15:09like my friend, Lauren, who, you know,
15:10my, my daughter is so comfortable with.
15:12And then on that day, you know,
15:13I hadn't seen my, my daughter since I started pre-production.
15:17And then the first time I saw her was at that grave
15:19to look up and she was there and, you know,
15:22and, and yeah, it, it cracked me.
15:23It broke me.
15:28Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.
15:30Hey, I'm sorry.
15:43I was blown away by her and her willingness to do that.
15:46And her, the willingness for my family
15:48to put up with all this nonsense,
15:49but to know that we're all in this together.
15:52And, and I, I just, I long and I hope,
15:55and I'm so proud of the moments
15:57that I get to give it back to them and support them
15:59and the things that they love and what they love to do.
16:01And that's, that's the whole deal.
16:03You know, I'm really interested in people
16:05who for whatever reason have to build a wall
16:08around their heart, who are so aligned on a mission.
16:11So, so steadfast in that I live for this and this only
16:15and anything else is a distraction.
16:17So I have to, I have to just build this wall around me.
16:20Essentially to be human, you can't do that.
16:22And, and people will crack through that wall
16:25and the light will come out and they will affect you.
16:27And so I love being, I love Frank with people
16:31and I love him being around people that he cares about
16:34because everything he's trying to do is saying,
16:36I, you know, I'm not going to look,
16:38I'm not going to open up.
16:39I'm, but, but, but, but I, but they shine through.
16:41They always shine through.
16:43And in, and in specific and different ways.
16:45Yeah.
16:45So each person sort of brings something different.
16:49And I think especially with Deb, you know,
16:52it's such an interesting, you know,
16:54she's such a wonderful artist and it's such
16:58an interesting dynamic that they have
17:01because I think certain people are always interested
17:03in like this sort of like, is, are they in love?
17:05Is this or that?
17:06But, you know, for me, it was just so clear
17:10that I think Frank being drawn to her
17:12is because he sees so much of his daughter
17:15growing up in her.
17:16He sees this as what my daughter could have been.
17:18And so he's, and, and I find that to be,
17:21I mean, look, we, we have to play these sort of
17:23like savage tricks on ourself as, as actors to generate,
17:27you know, making it matter more and more to you.
17:29But that, you know, that line with her,
17:31Frank looking at Deb that way, you know,
17:34just does so much, I think, to the character.
17:37And, and, and, and, and so I think that,
17:40that then you can, you can do that sort of thing
17:42with, with, with all these different characters.
18:02What was it like filming the sequence inside the Trojan horse?
18:06Yeah, look, I wouldn't want it any other way.
18:08It was hard.
18:09It was uncomfortable.
18:10Like, again, the string from Fury, you know,
18:12I, I, I love that way of working.
18:15You don't need to act.
18:16You just need to be.
18:18Look, when we were in the water,
18:19they, they filled it with freezing cold water.
18:22You can ask some of the other actors,
18:23but you know, I was in the water.
18:25I didn't get out of the water.
18:28Everybody else had to get out of the water.
18:29That's the kind of thing I love the most,
18:31especially when you have a leader like Chris,
18:33when you have somebody that you would,
18:35you know, walk through fire.
18:36I'd walk through a wall through that guy in a second.
18:39I love being an actor at the core.
18:43And, and it's, it's, it's very rare that I get to do this.
18:45I believe that an actor is a soldier of the story.
18:48And I love that I can let everything go.
18:50I don't need to come in with a whole bunch of other dialogue.
18:53I don't need to come in to fill a hole, but I can just come in and you say,
18:56jump, I'm in the air and how high you want me.
18:58And you can only do it with a few.
19:01There's, there's not that many people that you can do that with.
19:04Chris is definitely that person.
19:05And so he puts you in this situation and you just,
19:08I'll, I'll, I'll do anything you asked me to do.
19:11And it's a great liberating feeling.
19:13But that's what you, you know, the horse was no joke.
19:16Yeah.
19:17Look, it goes back to what Cherry Jones says is, you know,
19:19it's about the people you get to meet along the way.
19:21I recognized in Tom when he was 17 years old in Ireland,
19:24that he was enormously special, that he was raised right.
19:27He came from a great family.
19:28He was kind and courteous to everyone on that set.
19:31He was a 17 year old kid who had real wisdom, real,
19:36real grit, a real dedication.
19:39He'd do anything for a scene.
19:41He'd do anything for that project.
19:42He kneeled at the altar the same way that I did.
19:45He really, he and I really connected.
19:47I was blown away by the rigor in which he approached the Spider-Man audition process.
19:53His belief in himself, his determination to get that part.
19:56I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like that.
20:01Even to the point where I was like, I don't know, man, you know,
20:03there's a lot of people probably want to play Spider-Man.
20:05He was, he was going to get that part.
20:08And then, you know, us making, you know, the Punisher, you know,
20:11him basically convincing me, you know, to do the Punisher audition
20:14and then us doing it together.
20:17And then just sort of be from afar, him getting to know my family
20:21and us getting, I get, getting to know his family.
20:24And us having this unbelievable connection,
20:26but then just seeing over the years, you know, I'm doing my thing,
20:29he's doing his thing.
20:30And, but then to connect and do two films back to back with him,
20:35you know, and seeing him now as a 30 year old man,
20:40to see him, you know, as a movie star, leading a set,
20:46seeing how much he's done, how much he's grown,
20:50seeing the relationships of his life, his relationship with his lady,
20:54how real that is, how much he loves her and reveres her
20:58and the quality of that, how much she loves him,
21:00which is such a great thing, to see how much he's grown,
21:03to see this man that I'm so in awe of and that I'm so proud of,
21:07but also to see the fact that he hasn't changed.
21:09That's the bigger thing, that he's still that same kind,
21:12courteous, down to earth person who reveres this thing,
21:15who it's sacred to, that's a family first guy.
21:20It was, it was one of the biggest gifts
21:23that I've ever gotten doing this to, to, to see that.
21:27And then to spend this time with him, for us to reconnect.
21:30And it, it, it was inspiring.
21:33And I, I, I, I really, I really love the guy.
21:38I really love the guy.
21:42The bear.
21:45Yeah, somebody, if they're okay,
21:47they immediately start thinking they're not acting okay.
21:49And that immediately makes them start not acting okay.
21:55No one can make anyone else act a certain way.
22:00Okay.
22:02You remember last year?
22:04And the year before?
22:05Yeah.
22:06So I'm not fucking crazy.
22:08Nobody thinks you're crazy.
22:09Nobody's saying.
22:10Well, she is.
22:10Yeah, she's fucking out of her mind.
22:12You know, I've lost real, real dear friends in, in, in that way.
22:16You know, the question everyone asks,
22:18I'm sure if it's ever happened to any of you is, is, you know,
22:21what could I have done differently?
22:22What, what could I have done?
22:23Did I see it?
22:24What, why didn't I do enough?
22:26I'm so blown away by Chris Storr.
22:28I've always been so blown away by him because this story is so incredibly personal to him
22:33and sacred to him.
22:35And he knows it so well, but he also, like all the true great directors,
22:40has this ability to just pass it along, to bring in great people and then say,
22:44now the story's yours, do what you will with it.
22:46And what a gift to say, go write this thing, go write for this character that you get to just
22:51drop in and have this little part of this big, big, bigger world,
22:54this bigger universe that he's created.
22:56Come on, baby, let's do this.
23:00Oh, oh, oh, oh.
23:01Gradual with the volume, right?
23:03Just, just, I am gradual with the volume.
23:05Just turn it off.
23:06This is gradual with the volume.
23:07That's exactly what I did.
23:08I swear to God, stop it, stop it, stop it, stop it, stop it, stop it.
23:11Pull this fucking car over and fucking leave you here, you understand?
23:14Yes, you know, we wanted to make it this sort of road trip.
23:16I know, you know, Eben really wanted it to make it sort of like a,
23:19a Western and to make it like a Cassavetes film and this sort of slice of life.
23:23It was really important to us is to really sort of show the joy between these two guys.
23:28You know, my best friends in the world are the,
23:30my best friends that I've had since I was in first grade.
23:32My brothers and my best friends are the people that I've been with since I was eight years old.
23:37And beyond my family, it is the blessing of my life.
23:41And, and I love friendships like that.
23:44I love friendships where you know exactly what the person's going to do before they do it.
23:47And I love the fact that we got to see Mikey in a pretty vulnerable spot and we got to
23:53see Richie really try to kind of bring him out of it and really kind of cheer him up.
23:58And like, let's, let's sort of explore that from the beginning to the end, it was pure bliss.
24:03And I, I, I loved that we got to really explore the sort of nuances of, of, of Mikey's personality
24:11in those conversations with Marin Ireland in the bathroom about how it feels,
24:15how it really feels to be really up and then really down to be really attractive to people.
24:19But then to know that you're a pariah and to know that you're a cancer and then to go sort
24:25of, uh, you know, have it act out right in front of you right after, after that, you know, um,
24:30I'm really, really interested in simple, simple storytelling.
24:33You know, these two things that I got to write this year with Gary in One Last Kill, you know,
24:37I think that in one sense, you know, Gary is so, uh, there's so much dialogue.
24:43There's, it's so, there's such verbal people, you know, they're just constantly telling stories and, and, and with Frank, he's
24:49a man of such few words, so little dialogue, but both of them, if you really look at them, they're
24:54very, very simple stories.
24:56I love that.
24:57I love the structure of that.
24:58And I love being able to then fill it with, with so much life, so many true stories, so many
25:03sort of idiosyncrasies of my own friendships and my own relationships.
25:07And, you know, to be able to do it with Eben, you know, who's really become one of my favorite
25:12partners in the world, period, you know, like now after this play and doing Punisher with him and doing this
25:17with him and, you know, starting off understudying him in a, in a, in a play, you know, I know
25:21him so well.
25:22I believe in him so much.
25:24We are so different, but, um, our sense of humor is like the exact same.
25:29The things that we love are the exact same.
25:31We have this real egoless friendship where we can, you know, it is not strange before we're going on.
25:36On dog day afternoon for Eben to say, Hey, you know, that thing you're doing in this scene right there,
25:41you shouldn't do that anymore.
25:42Try this.
25:42And likewise, we do it for each other constantly and there's never feelings attached to it.
25:48It's all constructive.
25:49I know that he only wants the best for me and he knows that I only want the best for
25:54him.
25:54And we feel the same way about each other's families.
25:56And it's, it's really, um, a gift to have such a real genuine friend that you respect so much, that
26:03you love so much and that you trust so much.
26:06And this, you know, and, and, and, and to go to work with every day.
26:14We own the city.
26:16Are we supposed to win the fights?
26:18So if we're in the fight, fuck any talk of police brutality.
26:29If we lose a fight, we lose the street.
26:34What David Simon was really clear about is we can't, you can't just make way in a monster.
26:39That lifestyle only ends in one specific way.
26:42And if you're so committed to your family, how do you, how do you tangle that?
26:46What happens?
26:47And that's really the kernel of that character for me.
26:50How do you keep both of those things alive?
26:52And that really is the conflict that that guy is going through, you know, in the name of love, in
26:57the name of loyalty, in the name of fidelity, people do some pretty heinous things.
27:01Uh, and, um, I often find people with, uh, the biggest hearts are also capable of, of, uh, the most
27:09disastrous sort of violence and mayhem.
27:11I've just had that experience kind of in my life.
27:14The very first thing I said to Wayne when I met him was I met the guy that he coached
27:18youth football with.
27:19You know, I talked to his family.
27:21I talked to guys on the street.
27:22I talked, I got very close with a guy that used to go rob drug dealers with him and they
27:26did some pretty brutal, you know, heinous things.
27:29But every single one of them said the same thing, that if one of his kids or if his wife
27:35called him, he would drop whatever was happening and he would go to them.
27:38And I just don't know that many people like that.
27:40And to me, I think the, the, the, the, the job at hand, you know, especially at a time in
27:46America when policing was so under, uh, the microscope, um, where the foundation of policing was cracking.
27:53And, um, I was at the tip of the spear in a, in a city like Baltimore where race and
27:58policing, uh, you know, were just coming head to head one to be able to get this like unbelievable front
28:03row ticket to explore that stuff and explore these topics that are so important to me.
28:08And that I've had real, a lot of life experience with them, but also to be able to go into
28:12that world of Baltimore with the street cred of being part of a David Simon, George Pelicanos project.
28:17So all these people opened up to me because these guys tell the truth.
28:21They have real journalistic integrity, even though I was going in to tell perhaps the most unsightly, the most ugly
28:28chapter of Baltimore police history, the police department of Baltimore opened up their arms to me.
28:33I really embedded with those guys, you know, for months, um, just because of who David Simon and George Pelicanos
28:39is and what the wire meant to that city.
28:41When I was, um, coming out of theater school, Cherry Jones came and spoke at our, our, our school and,
28:49you know, she gave us some advice and she told us the three most important things about, you know, life
28:53in the art and being an actor.
28:55And the third thing that she gave us and the most important thing was to remember, it's all about the
28:59human beings you meet along the way, the men and women that I got to meet, you know, in the
29:03Baltimore police department and the people that I got to meet in that community and them embracing me and bringing
29:07me in.
29:08I made lifelong friends.
29:09I got to enter into a world that I've never been able to enter in before, but also it was
29:14the only time that I've gotten to do something where there actually was a right and wrong way.
29:19Is your life in danger? I'm serious. If your life is in danger, just tell me how, tell me how
29:23I'm happy to look into. If someone's trying to hurt you, kill you, I'm fine. I'll find out who they
29:27are. All right, tell me, I'll get another gun off the street. What's going on, sir? How is your life
29:31in danger?
29:32You know, when you're working for a guy like George Pelicanos or David Simon, they're after the truth. They're, they're
29:37not after the most interesting scene or the most romantic scene or the funniest scene or the most dangerous scene.
29:42They're really trying to tell the truth.
29:44They shoot it on the location where these events actually happened with as many of the real people that are
29:49actually there. And I find that to something that I care about so much. And that is so sacred to
29:54me.
29:55I find that level of commitment, that journalistic integrity to telling the truth. I found it so inspiring and so
30:03uplifting. And I felt like it was a sword. I had a North star.
30:06I had something that I could really follow and that empowered me because ultimately what I'm really trying to do
30:11is bring my own creativity, bring as much as myself to this thing.
30:17And that's really where I feel the best, the most comfortable. I could bring in so much of my own
30:22stuff. Hey, why aren't you doing what's in the script? This isn't the way it is.
30:25Yeah, well, this guy was there that day and he told me this happened in this. It gave me agency
30:30and gave me permission to come in and bring more of myself and bring more of making the character fully
30:36and totally my own with the sort of backstop of because, hey, this really happened this way.
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