- 2 days ago
GQ’s Zach Baron sits down for a tête-à-tête with Prince Harry at the GQ offices in New York City. Prince Harry talks about moving back to the United Kingdom after a six-year stint in America, his daily battle with grieving his mom, Princess Diana, and why taking control of his story takes precedence now more than ever.
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00:00No, you don't feel insane and I certainly don't want any sympathy, we're way past that.
00:04Why?
00:05Why?
00:06Yeah.
00:07Because I'm a prince.
00:09So?
00:09No, well, thank you for saying that. That's great.
00:22Prince Harry, welcome to One More Question.
00:25Usually I do an intro, but with you it honestly, frankly, felt absurd.
00:31Okay. What would your intro have been though?
00:34Great question. I was going to ask what your intro for you would have been, but...
00:39I never get to give my own intro.
00:40Can you do it right now?
00:41No.
00:42Okay. Veteran, humanitarian, best-selling author, member of the royal family, father, husband, author of a new masterclass on grief,
00:55how's that?
00:56It's about right.
00:57It's better than normal.
01:00What's normal?
01:00Well, you know, it depends on where you are. It depends on who's giving you the intro, but that seems
01:04to be the most representative intro, so I'll give you that one.
01:07Okay. All right. Thank you.
01:08We're taping this in New York. You just moved back to the UK. How come?
01:16Opportunities. For the family, being able to put the kids in a British school has meant a lot to me.
01:26I didn't know how important it was to me. I always thought it was going to be something that I
01:29would try and do or that we would try and do.
01:31But now they've been in school for two weeks. They're loving it. And it's just giving them a whole different
01:37experience. Don't worry, I'm not criticizing American schools.
01:40But I think for kids at seven and five, to be able to have that comparison and to have two
01:46completely different cultural experiences is so important today.
01:49But yeah, to be back closer to my family and to be back on UK soil for longer than a
01:57few days or a week here or there.
02:00What is that feeling like to be back?
02:04It's been nice to be close to friends, family, friends and friends and their children as well, to be able
02:11to have endless play dates to really help our kids settle in.
02:16Well, uprooting a family is gnarly, right? Two kids. You guys have done this once relatively recently doing it again,
02:23I imagine. It's not easy.
02:25No, it's not. Look, there's no part of anything really that's easy anymore.
02:31For you. No, for lots of people.
02:33Yeah. For lots of people. But, you know, and this wasn't something that we planned for a long time.
02:38It's something that we've thought about and we've considered.
02:41But for us, when certain stars align and it's clear that this should or probably will end up being the
02:48case, then we lean into that.
02:50Was it more of a US thing, like what life was like here or more something that you were sort
02:56of craving back there?
02:58I would say a combination of both.
02:59Yeah.
03:00I think that having been here for six years now and only being able to go back to the UK
03:06for short periods of time, to actually have my whole family there with me.
03:11The place that I grew up wanting to be able to show my kids where I grew up and have
03:17them have the experiences to some extent that I had the good rather than necessarily the bad provided real.
03:26Yeah, proper serious thinking as to this is this is an opportunity.
03:30Let's do it now. Good to be outside of the US for the next few months, perhaps.
03:36Let things settle down for a bit and then we and then and then we work it out from there.
03:40But like we've had plans in the past.
03:44And I think for lots of people, it's like if you're going to make a big move like this, it's
03:47going to take a lot of planning for us.
03:49It was very short.
03:51There were reasons why you guys left in the first place, you know, certain circumstances there, whether media or stuff
03:58like that.
03:59You know, you've talked about why you guys left.
04:02Has that stuff changed materially?
04:04Do you think it's going to be different or do you have a different attitude about it?
04:07How are you thinking about that?
04:10I think a combination of two of those.
04:13I think that the certainly our attitude has changed.
04:17In what way?
04:18Well, it's your one more question thing.
04:21I'm sorry.
04:22It's okay.
04:23It's your job.
04:24I think once you've been through it, once you've been able to talk about it and raise awareness to it,
04:33then people see it for what it is, which makes the environment slightly easier.
04:39And it's not going to necessarily stop the behavior.
04:42But then that's the second part, which I think the behavior, my hope is that it will change.
04:47You know, what happened back then was then what's happened over the last six years has been a continuation of
04:53that.
04:54But there is, you know, some battles that have been fought, necessarily so, but hopefully we can all draw a
05:03line under that.
05:05And, you know, with everything else that's going on in the world, there's aspects of the past that I'm sure
05:11all of us, me, my family, some of the British press, that we'd all like to leave that behind us
05:17and work for the greater good.
05:19Yeah.
05:20Yeah. And it sounds like you're actually optimistic about that.
05:23I am optimistic.
05:24I'm hopeful.
05:24I'm not naive.
05:26I have been naive in the past.
05:28But I think it's important to remain optimistic.
05:31And I think a large part of this is about respect as well.
05:35And, you know, I can respect them if they respect me and our position.
05:39Our position is really quite clear now.
05:42And hopefully we can get on with life.
05:46I've let too much time pass already before asking the most important question, which is how are you?
05:51How are you?
05:53I'm good.
05:54Yep.
05:55I know why you asked that question.
05:56For those that don't know, you have a masterclass on the subject of grief.
06:00Yep.
06:01And in it, you talk about how you gave the same answer to that question for more or less 20
06:06years.
06:06Every day, same answer.
06:07Which was?
06:08I'm fine.
06:09Which I think a lot of people do, you know?
06:13I think a lot of us, when someone is suffering from anything, grief, loss, trauma, just a bad day,
06:21we're so good at, some people don't ask at all.
06:24But I think those of us who are friends and companions or work colleagues, if you say,
06:30how are you?
06:31It's a sort of natural reaction to say, I'm fine.
06:33And then everybody sort of moves on.
06:35You've done your part, you asked, and you've done your part by saying, I'm fine.
06:39But underneath that, I've always felt, certainly from my perspective, there was always more.
06:45If someone had asked us the further up, you know, follow up question, are you sure you're fine?
06:50I don't think that would have changed my response.
06:52My final question today was going to be, are you actually good?
06:55No, I am good.
06:55I'm exhausted.
06:56As tired as you are, you've just come off a red eye.
06:58I've been in New York for the last three days.
07:00So it's interesting to be jet-lagged in New York where it's normally the other way around.
07:04But no, I'm, yeah, I'm exhausted.
07:07But the work that I've done over the last few days and the work that I do, that's the stuff
07:12that energizes me.
07:13Yeah.
07:14Being around good people, trying to make an impact in the world.
07:18That is genuinely what energizes me.
07:20Yes.
07:21And I'm in a much better place now than I was 10 years ago.
07:26In what way?
07:29You heard the self-consciousness.
07:31You know, I need the questions.
07:32They're going to come.
07:33I'm going to ask them a question.
07:34Yeah, yeah.
07:36There is a really interesting thing about grief.
07:39Look, it's very personal for people.
07:41It's very individual to that person's circumstance.
07:46But I've learned to, I guess, accept and understand that you don't ever get over grief.
07:51You live with it.
07:52You learn to live with it.
07:53And also, I've never wanted to get over the grief.
07:55And that was where I was stuck many, many years ago was the fact that, you know, if I give
08:01up on the grieving, does that mean I give up on the memory of my mother?
08:04And at the same time, if I become happy, is that a betrayal of her memory?
08:10And, you know, in the Masterclass series, in the lesson of which, you know, I've always considered myself, and certainly
08:18for Masterclass, a student of grief.
08:21And the expert is Dr. Mary Frances O'Connor.
08:24But, you know…
08:25As a scholar that you did this with, I guess.
08:27An expert, you know, who's been studying, you know, grief and loss for decades.
08:32And she also lost her own mother as well.
08:35So she's been studying what does that do to the brain and the body.
08:40But, you know, sitting here now, recently turned 42 years old, had I known what I know now, back when
08:49I was 12, my life would have been very, very different.
08:52And I just…
08:53The point of Masterclass is to be able to give as much of my experience, combined with Dr. Mary Frances
09:01O'Connor's scientific experience, professional experience, and combine those two things to be able to give as much guidance and
09:11as many tools as possible to those people who are grieving or have faced some form of loss.
09:16It doesn't have to be a family member or a friend.
09:18It could be a pet.
09:20It could be loss of identity.
09:21It could be your job.
09:22It could be a limb.
09:24It really is one of the most universal aspects of being human.
09:28And yet, within society, we are encouraged to suppress those feelings and those emotions.
09:35You've talked about this.
09:36That was your personal experience after your loss was that you were basically encouraged, if I understand correctly, to really
09:42not, like, acknowledge it publicly or even, it sounds like, privately to some extent.
09:46Yeah, but I think that's the same for so many families and so many cultures as well.
09:53You know, there are cultures around the world where, in the opposite sense, you are encouraged to grieve.
09:58Yeah.
09:58And for three or five…
09:59That's not the one you come from.
10:01No, but is it the one you come from?
10:03No.
10:03Not really, no.
10:05No.
10:05So, it's not a…
10:07It doesn't come across as a…
10:09Certainly from my standpoint, it's not a criticism.
10:10Yeah.
10:11But now, as a 42-year-old man with two kids, a boy and a girl, you know, you start
10:17to learn very quickly and you start to look back at your past and your parents as to what you
10:24have carried from them, what they've handed over to you, what you want to take on and what you don't.
10:29And, again, culturally, within your own family, there are certain things that you can do to, I guess, you know,
10:35help your kids through that, despite what may be the case at school or within the country.
10:41Or you've talked about, in your family, sort of breaking a pattern of, like, the way that your father was
10:45parented and the way that you were parented and trying to do it differently, right?
10:47Yeah.
10:48Yeah.
10:48I think that's probably the same for many parents.
10:53If the world around you is changing, then you can't stay the same.
10:57Again, from a British standpoint, what's really interesting, and maybe this is larger than a British standpoint, but so many
11:02people over the years have said, you know, oh, he's changed.
11:04It's like, well, so I'm no longer falling out of nightclubs drunk?
11:07Is that what you wanted for me?
11:10You know?
11:10Do you think that's what they mean?
11:11No.
11:12Yes, to some extent.
11:13Like, I was, you know, that was entertainment for a lot of people, especially the press.
11:16Is that a fair characterization of the way that you ever were?
11:19No.
11:20No, no, of course not.
11:21Because the work was the work and the play was the play.
11:23And I was quite good at trying to balance the two.
11:25But, you know, when I was young, you know, was I going out and having a good time with friends?
11:30Yes.
11:30Was I sometimes doing that to suppress the sadness of losing my mum?
11:35Yes.
11:35Was I aware of it at the time?
11:37Absolutely not.
11:38You know?
11:39Right.
11:39Well, you talk about this in the class, the different ways in which grief can manifest.
11:44And it can be anger, irritability, or depression.
11:48And for you, how did it manifest?
11:51All of it.
11:52Yeah.
11:53You know?
11:54I think more so, I think what is more relatable to people is the distraction piece to it.
12:00You know?
12:00The busyness of life.
12:02The fact that, you know, when it happens, everyone's there for you.
12:07But then they quickly, not disappear, but everybody moves on.
12:11As if to say that grief is, there's a beginning, a middle, and an end.
12:16And from what I've learned from Dr. O'Connor is, that's the opposite to how it is.
12:23It's like this.
12:25Every day throughout your life, it's not like, oh, we're going to get over it.
12:28It's like, today's this, tomorrow's that.
12:31Next week is this.
12:32The next month is this.
12:33So that's just reality.
12:37But I love the fact that I'm able to now sort of carry the memory of my mother with me,
12:45with my work, rather than it hold me down, pull me back, or me wallowing in that grief.
12:52I don't think I ever wallowed in it.
12:54I don't think I was ever allowed to.
12:56I don't think it never really occurred to me.
12:58But I think that, you know, us as human beings…
13:02It's funny that it didn't occur to you because…
13:05To what?
13:05To wallow in it.
13:07Yeah.
13:07Because everyone knows what happened.
13:11But what happened was extraordinarily traumatic.
13:13You lost your mother when you were 12 years old in a horrific way in front of the world.
13:18That's the kind of thing where, like, I mean, I genuinely wonder, like,
13:22does something break inside a person when something like that happens?
13:27I don't know if it breaks you, especially when you're that young.
13:30I don't think you can really fully comprehend what's happened.
13:34I think that certainly over a period of time, the resilience inside of each of us starts to grow over
13:44time.
13:44And it's up to us to know ourselves.
13:47Back then, I didn't know myself.
13:49The grief, the trauma, the loss, the fact that I was 12, I had no idea who I really was.
13:55But over the years with life's challenges, it does and has grown this resilience inside of me to realize, wow,
14:04this grief can either hold you back or it can help you grow.
14:10You talked about basically suppressing your feelings for 20 years or so.
14:15What has life been like for you since you stopped doing that?
14:21Better and harder.
14:22In what way?
14:24Well, therapy was the thing that really changed it for me because it gave me permission to grieve and to
14:31acknowledge the fact that, yeah, losing your mum really sucks.
14:33And you're allowed to cry about it.
14:35You're allowed to...
14:36Another thing you didn't do for 20 years is cry.
14:38Yeah.
14:39Despite trying hard.
14:41But again, I think the harder you try to cry, the harder it becomes to actually pull that off.
14:46But yes, crying eventually feels great.
14:49It really does.
14:50The suppression of grief, the suppression of feelings is a really interesting thing.
14:54But when I tried therapy, it didn't take me that long to realize, wow, I've been numb to this.
15:03So when I talk about, yes, it's become easier and become harder or better and harder, it's become better for
15:09so many different reasons,
15:09because now I can be really emotionally connected to my friends, family and specifically my children.
15:15But at the same time, with the state of the world, I'm now more sensitive to things that back then
15:20I was probably more numb to.
15:22Yeah.
15:22So I look at it in a very interesting way.
15:23It's like, wow, for today or this week, I wish that I was still...
15:27Still numb?
15:28That guy.
15:28Really?
15:29Yeah.
15:29Genuinely.
15:30How often do you feel that way?
15:31Luckily, not too many times.
15:33But having had one foot in that world and another foot in this world, I try to find the right
15:39balance.
15:40And life is about balance, right?
15:41There are some times when you need to be able to block it out and there are other times when
15:45you need to be vulnerable and be open to it.
15:47And my therapist said something very interesting to me, or my first therapist said something very interesting to me from
15:52the...
15:52This is from the UK.
15:54He said, try to imagine yourself in a glass jar with the lid open.
15:58And all the negative stuff, the stuff that you don't want to come in, just have it bouncing off the
16:02side.
16:02You get to choose what comes over the top and in.
16:05Now that was, I don't know, probably more than 10 years ago.
16:10Yeah, about almost exactly 10 years ago.
16:12Have I perfected that?
16:14No.
16:14Am I still trying?
16:16Yes, absolutely.
16:17But, you know, there's what's in our control and then there's what's not in our control.
16:21And you've just got to manage that and have the perspective of the things that really hurt can be really
16:27good lessons for you.
16:28When you mentioned the glass jar, my mind went somewhere else, which is...
16:34Cold fish?
16:35Yeah, a little bit.
16:36Cold fish bowl?
16:37Yeah.
16:38Yeah, exactly.
16:39And thinking about your years of being in a difficult place with grief, which I think would be hard for
16:47anyone.
16:48And all the stuff that you just mentioned, the seeking of distractions and not really knowing how to process it.
16:56And then for you, there's this additional thing of the intensely public nature of the life that you're leading.
17:01I can't imagine that did anything but exacerbate those feelings.
17:05Yeah, no, pressure is a real thing, but it's all relative in different contexts.
17:12My goal here with being able to share my story, share a part of my story.
17:18And, you know, for the years that I've always shared elements of that, I don't do it for myself.
17:24Like anyone who is grieving, anyone who has grieved or had significant loss in their life, will probably say the
17:32same thing, which is,
17:34I've shared what I need to share in order to help heal.
17:38But for me, I know because I continually get told by everybody from 90-year-olds down to nine-year
17:45-olds that the sharing part of my experience, sharing part of my story has helped them.
17:52And as long as that's the case, then I'm always going to try and make it easier for other people.
17:58It doesn't matter whether it's one or a million.
18:00I saw you tell in the Masterclass, I think it's in your book as well, this, you know, after your
18:06mom died, you walk in this procession,
18:09and you're touching these hands that are wet with tears.
18:15People are crying for your mother that they've never met.
18:19I'm not sure I could come back from something like that.
18:22What do you mean, come back from that?
18:23No, I'm not. I'm the one asking you questions.
18:25What do you mean?
18:26What do you mean?
18:26Let's go.
18:28There is something uniquely intense, imagining a 12-year-old processing that, and also the way that the memory has
18:37clearly stuck with you.
18:40That, yes, I tried to imagine, like, could I have experienced that and gone on?
18:50You know?
18:51Of course you could.
18:52That's the thing.
18:53Like, we, as human beings, we're constantly tested.
18:56Yeah.
18:57And look, let's not forget, I'm a prince, right?
18:59So, all of the resources, to me, should have been available.
19:04For the reasons that we've discussed, they weren't always available.
19:07But, you know, could I afford it?
19:10Yes.
19:11Was it accessible?
19:12Yes.
19:13You mean therapy?
19:14Therapy, yeah.
19:15But you weren't doing it?
19:16No, I wasn't doing it back then.
19:17But I'm just saying that, you know, my experience is my experience.
19:21And, yes, the world saw it.
19:23I mean, still to this day, if I ask anybody or people very often come up to me and say,
19:28I remember exactly where I was on that day in 1997, 31st of August.
19:33And, yeah, when you're surrounded by people and, you know, different generations of where they can remember exactly where they
19:40were when that happened.
19:42And then they look at me and all my brother and go, wow, you guys were teenagers, not even.
19:50And this happened to you on such a public scale.
19:54Where do you go from that?
19:55And that's, again, from my standpoint, it's like, right, you've already seen my whole life.
20:00It's, I don't have a choice in that.
20:02So the least I can do is try to sort of give back in a sense that this is actually
20:08what perhaps I was thinking then and how I've sort of recovered from that.
20:13And I hope that that gives some encouragement to people that when you are rock bottom and when you're finding
20:19things really, really hard, that you can come back from that.
20:21And look, at the end of the day, Zach, so much of this is about community and support of those
20:27around you and understanding that grief isn't just that moment.
20:30You know, someone years later might have a complete breakdown and that's when they need you the most as opposed
20:36to the day after when it happened.
20:38You also talk, you guys talk in that class about how grief takes many forms.
20:45Forgive me because I don't know the details here.
20:48And details of what?
20:50Here comes the question.
20:52You have talked about at times having a complicated relationship with your brother, your father.
20:58Is that something that you grieve?
21:05Yeah, yes, of course.
21:06I think from a family perspective, again, another massively relatable issue for so many people.
21:12People, you know, there's sibling disagreements.
21:17There's, you know, broken relationships between, you know, kids and their parents, kids and one parent.
21:24Like that's that that is that continues to come up with me the whole time by people that I speak
21:29to.
21:29I'm sure. So I know how relatable it is.
21:31That's probably probably why there's so much fascination in the.
21:34Everybody's family.
21:35Everyone's family.
21:36And then people maybe look at us and go, how are you going to work it out?
21:39And then maybe how I see you're going to work it out.
21:41Maybe that will help me work my stuff out.
21:43And some people don't.
21:44How are you going to work it out?
21:45Well, some people don't want it to work out.
21:46I want it to work out.
21:47You do.
21:48Of course I do.
21:49Yeah.
21:49There's no, again, with everything else that's going on in the world.
21:52The most important thing is to, you know, is to reconcile.
21:56That's the key point.
21:57Well, so much of the class two is about this idea of repair, right?
22:00Like that grief is, is not an inevitable fact of something that can be repaired.
22:05And so like the follow up to that would be, you know, is this, is this wound something
22:09that you think you can repair?
22:10Yeah, of course.
22:10I think every, look, scars, scars stick around forever, but how you, how, what your perception
22:17is and what your mindset is to those things that have happened, certainly letting go of
22:23the past.
22:25That's something that I would encourage everybody to do.
22:28If there's certain things from the past that are still affecting your every day, that's
22:32harder to let go of.
22:33But yeah, and I've, for me, it's, um, there's enough drama in the world and enough drama
22:39in, in, in people's lives, um, than to continue with issues with, with family.
22:46You know, it's just like not, it's not worth it.
22:50If that's hard to say to people when you're in it.
22:53Yeah.
22:53Yeah.
22:54I mean, are you on good terms with everyone in your family?
22:57Maybe you're, um, maybe, maybe you're not, but this is the first time you're about to
23:03share that you're not.
23:04And then suddenly realized, but I thought we were on good terms.
23:06Well, now I feel like the way you feel where I'm just watching them watch this and be like,
23:10is he going to talk about me?
23:11Um, I, I would say generally, yes.
23:13You know, I mean, I, I think the thing, um, you asked about my family.
23:19Uh, you didn't ask for this confidence, but I, I know your father's been sick.
23:24Mine, uh, was diagnosed with, uh, prostate cancer a few years ago.
23:28He's actually doing well, but another thing that watching your class made me think of is
23:32I felt in moments almost an, uh, kind of anticipatory grief, if that makes sense.
23:38You know, where you sort of start contemplating.
23:40I wonder if you felt something similar.
23:42Yeah.
23:43Uh, yes, I have.
23:46And I think that that is perhaps helpful because, but you know what I mean?
23:52I think that, you know, again, it's the one thing that we are all going to experience,
23:57which is the loss of a parent, both parents and the loss of friends.
24:01That's universal.
24:03It is universal.
24:04Well, you, you've done a lot of chattel work and I think a lot of thinking about PTSI.
24:10Mm-hmm.
24:11Thanks for referring to it as PTSI.
24:14Right.
24:14Because yes, instead of PTSD, I would think having suffered the traumatic death of a parent
24:21that something like this could be very triggering in that respect.
24:25What?
24:26Having a sick, sick parent now.
24:28Um, yes, but he's, you know, he's getting better.
24:34Um, so yeah, it's, it's, I think there's a big difference between losing one parent and
24:40losing two from the, from the friends of mine that have lost two.
24:43They go, well, now I'm an orphan, even if you're in your forties or fifties.
24:46Yeah.
24:47So it's an interesting, I'd never heard someone say that to me before.
24:49I was like, well, I hadn't, I hadn't considered that.
24:51Um, but then also I've always thought to myself since I was a young kid and conversations with
24:56other friends of mine, which is if you had a choice, what would you choose?
25:04What would you choose to have a parent ripped away from you suddenly without any preparation?
25:10Or having the long-term suffering, but the ability to say goodbye.
25:15And it turns out that there, that I want to know your answer.
25:18There is, there is no answer because, um, you know, I've got friends and family who are
25:26suffering from cancer.
25:27I've had a mom that was taken away from me too soon.
25:30And I speak, I've spoken very openly about one of my biggest regrets is that last phone
25:35call I had with her.
25:36Um, if I'd known it was the last call with her, how different that conversation would
25:42it be?
25:43And I'm the one that has to, has to live with that.
25:45And the fact that as a 12 year old kid, all I wanted to do was go off and run
25:48and play
25:49with my cousins.
25:50And you have to, you have to know that you have to know that, especially as a parent yourself
25:55now.
25:55Of course, of course.
25:57But before I was a parent, that was a sort of a bit of guilt and stuff that just really
26:02stuck with me.
26:03It was like heavy.
26:05And, and then, yeah, when you become a parent, of course it changes things.
26:10Yes.
26:10Yes.
26:11I mean, I haven't even asked you, like when it comes to grief and loss, what is your experience
26:17of this?
26:18I have a surreal experience.
26:19It's sort of what I was alluding to earlier, which is that both of my parents have had relatively
26:24bad forms of cancer that they both have survived.
26:27So I've had the anticipatory grief and I have many friends who have lost one or both
26:32parents.
26:34In fact, I had a conversation with my father, but he was sort of preparing me for his death,
26:37if we're being honest with each other.
26:39And I kind of was like, I haven't experienced this, but I barely have a friend who, who has
26:47it.
26:47Like, you don't have to tell me that this is going to happen.
26:49Yeah.
26:50But also I sit here knowing that I do not know what is coming and I cannot be ready for
26:56it.
26:58How would you, how would you prepare yourself for it?
27:03I mean, did watching the class, did it, does that help?
27:07Of course it helps.
27:08I mean, I think you in general sharing your story helps.
27:11Well, anyone sharing their story should help.
27:13Yes, yes, yes.
27:14That's the point of it.
27:15Yes.
27:16Um, well there, I have a journalist mind.
27:19So there's a, there's a certain like vividness to the, the version of it that you experienced,
27:23which is easy for me to wrap my, not easy for me to wrap my head around, but there's,
27:28there's, I mean, how many books have been written about this?
27:30It's literally a, it's literally narratively sort of out there.
27:34Um, but also, yeah, the way that.
27:36How many books have been written about what grief?
27:38No, about, uh, your family and your mother.
27:40Oh yeah.
27:40Yeah.
27:41I mean thousands.
27:42I wrote one, but they all wrote thousands.
27:44Yeah.
27:44Well, I was going to ask you about this too, cause I feel like that you make stuff.
27:48I, I, I, you know, like, I, I feel like I don't, I not a Royal family expert, but it's
27:54not.
27:54It looks like you are wearing a blazer.
27:56I mean, it's the whole, you know.
27:57Let me in.
27:59Um, uh, it, it feels like the way that you, you know, you wrote this book, you made this
28:06masterclass, you, you, when you guys came to California, you, you know, you were, you
28:10were doing Hollywood stuff and production stuff and, uh, but that's not kind of like what
28:18it's common for your family.
28:20To make stuff.
28:21Yeah.
28:21But it's storytelling.
28:22Yeah.
28:22You know, it's, it's, it's being in certain situations and, and being able to use and yeah,
28:30use creatively the platforms that are available to be able to share stories.
28:34So like my whole life, my whole background is charity.
28:37Yes.
28:38And what I realized very quickly when I moved over here was charity is so much at the downstream
28:45end.
28:45Yeah.
28:46What can I do with my life?
28:48That is more upstream.
28:50That's, it's not about putting charity out of business, but, but if, if the problem now
28:57exists and it's so big that it needs charitable support, then what can you do other than put
29:02a, put a bad plaster or bandaid on it?
29:05Yeah.
29:06So, you know, my work with better up for instance, online coaching platform was really focused
29:10on the upstream.
29:11Like if we can, you know, democratize and basically get as much coaching out there as
29:15possible from everyone, from the CEO to the janitor in these large corporations, large
29:20businesses, then hopefully they won't, won't be in the situation that I was, which is lying
29:24on the floor in the fetal position in your kitchen.
29:27Which is the thing that happened, which is, which is the thing that happens for so many
29:30people.
29:30Well, I'm asking about you though.
29:31Yeah.
29:32That's, that's, that's, that's a reality.
29:34Yeah.
29:34Right.
29:34It's just interesting how life, you know, pans out.
29:37It was like, wow, the sooner that you can get to know yourself.
29:42And what I mean by that is actually like who you are, what is your identity?
29:46What are the things that you love doing?
29:49The things you, what are the triggers?
29:51What are the things that you know that you should avoid?
29:53Um, and how do you have, what is your shield?
29:57The moment you are able to establish those things, then you know yourself better.
30:02You can protect yourself better from the things that are outside of your control.
30:06Um, so I now know how to grieve.
30:09I know that, you know, when the next person in my close life, you know, passes and I lose
30:15them, I don't know how I'm going to react.
30:18I assume that I'm going to break down and cry.
30:20And if I can't cry, I'm going to be like, come on, how are we in this situation again?
30:23How are we back here again?
30:24How are we back here again?
30:25Come on.
30:25After all these years.
30:26But you know, I, I find myself getting very emotional about in, in all sorts of different
30:31situations.
30:32And normally it's, but there's a whole crowd of people, those cameras and stuff like that.
30:35And it might be a really happy moment.
30:37I'm like, Whoa, where's that come from?
30:39And I just feel like, well, maybe I just, maybe the tears here, it's not just contained
30:43to this moment, but it's connected to so many other moments in my life as well.
30:47Yes.
30:48Yeah.
30:48And then I go and I don't cry because I'm in front of everybody.
30:50And then I go home and go right now cry.
30:52Nope.
30:53The moment's passed.
30:55That's, I mean, what you're describing is very difficult, which is like, I feel a feeling,
31:00but I'm being observed, so I can't fully feel it.
31:04And then I got to go home and recreate it and it's not there.
31:06And you must feel insane.
31:08No, you don't feel insane.
31:09And I certainly don't want any sympathy.
31:10That's where we're, we're way past that.
31:12Why?
31:13Why?
31:14Yeah.
31:14Because I'm a Prince like, no, well, thank you for saying that.
31:19That's great.
31:20But I've, you know, I've, I've got a support network around me.
31:25I've, I've done, you know, different forms of therapy and I've, I put in the work, right?
31:29I didn't have to, I wonder where I would be if I didn't.
31:33Yeah.
31:33You know, it could be very different, a different situation.
31:38And 10 years in the military really grounded me.
31:41It gave me a set of a specific set of skills, but it gave me,
31:47it gave me a certain set of values that I will live by for the rest of my life.
31:54It's such an interesting thing that you bring that up.
31:56Cause I was reflecting on the fact that it's clearly a very important chapter in your life.
32:01And, and it seems like among maybe before marriage and kids, the happiest that you kind of ever were.
32:06Yeah.
32:06Well, it was, it was, you know, what was weird.
32:07It was, it was an escape for me.
32:09And I didn't realize what it was doing for me then, or what I was using it to get away
32:15from.
32:16I was running from something and being in the military gave me the perfect distraction.
32:20And I was also the perfect candidate.
32:23Highly and higher, highly adrenalized 20 something year old.
32:27Um, you make a joke about this in your book.
32:30It's like divorced parents, like lost mother, like, come on down.
32:33Yeah.
32:34Yeah.
32:34And strip away the title and who I am and everything else.
32:37It's like, you come from a broken home and so many people come from broken homes.
32:41And actually when it comes to recruiting, we are very good at recruiting from broken homes.
32:45And it, and, and, and highly adrenalized individuals will operate really well in, in, in uniform.
32:52Um, but this is when, you know, post-traumatic stress and lots of that stuff comes up and where the
32:57research shows that so many of the, so many of us who have served operationally, who might be suffering from
33:03some form of post-traumatic stress, that the, the incident was the trigger.
33:07But what it has now opened up is, is precedes service and everything else precedes service.
33:13And it's, it's, it's childhood trauma.
33:15Yeah.
33:16Of which so many of us carry.
33:18Some of us are aware of it.
33:19A lot of us aren't.
33:20And it's also a place where the guy next to you, isn't going to turn to you and have a
33:27really emotional conversation.
33:29No, of course not.
33:30Well, that's again, like the cultural aspect, right?
33:33We are, we are encouraged as men.
33:34Yeah.
33:35Not to, not to be vulnerable.
33:37Yeah.
33:37But then the moment that you have kids, you realize that you need to be vulnerable.
33:40Yes.
33:40And I've said over, over and over again for years and years and years, like being vulnerable is not weakness.
33:46It is strength.
33:47Especially the fact that in my life, I will defend my family with full strength.
33:52But at the same time, I can be the vulnerable individual, whether it's as a husband or whether as a
33:57father.
33:57And again, it goes back to balance.
33:59I think the balance is absolutely key.
34:01You can't just be this, you know, macho dude who has no sensitivity, is unable to be vulnerable and is
34:08basically just a douche.
34:10Yes.
34:10Although it's interesting.
34:11I have, I have two young children.
34:13And I think about this because they're still at the age where they, they think I'm kind of can do
34:18everything.
34:18You know, I'm like Superman.
34:19And it is great.
34:20But then I'm like, well, can I show vulnerability?
34:22Am I going to like puncture that, that idea that their dad is invincible?
34:26You know?
34:27Yeah.
34:27Well, they, they, they need, they need to know that you are not invincible.
34:30Yeah.
34:31I think is the key.
34:32Yeah.
34:32You know, none of us are invincible.
34:33And certainly in the military, we always had this ability to be able to kind of put on the cloak.
34:37The uniform was the cloak.
34:39It's like, I am invincible.
34:40And that mindset certainly got yourself into shit, but also out of shit.
34:45But you, but you've, we all have got to learn when to take that cloak off.
34:49Yeah.
34:49And it's not always wearing the cloak and it's not always not wearing it, but it's finding
34:54the right moments to go, okay, this is when I need to be this version of me.
34:58And this is when I need to be this version of me.
35:00You say, I think you say in a class that you think about your mother almost every day.
35:07Yeah.
35:07What do you think about it?
35:09Is it like a happy memory, a sad memory?
35:11Is it advice?
35:12Is it like, what do you think about it?
35:13I don't go too deep.
35:15I don't, I don't sit there and I probably should, but I don't sit there and go really
35:20deep into how am I feeling?
35:22It's just a quick sort of like, wow, miss you.
35:25I wonder what the world would be like if you were still here.
35:28I wonder what my family would be like if you were still here.
35:31So there's, there are questions that, that I, that I, that I sort of ask myself.
35:37And sometimes there's questions that I ask her looking for some kind of response.
35:41And sometimes I do get a response.
35:42You get an answer.
35:43Yeah.
35:44Yeah.
35:44And that's the thing.
35:45Like, I think it's, it's really interesting when, you know, she's like, he's obviously
35:50spent too much time in California, but it's having done the work that I've done.
35:55And then there is, there is, there is, there is a connection still with, with my mum that
36:01I, I really do feel her energy at certain times and certain parts of my life.
36:06We don't have to blame that in California.
36:07That's a legitimate feeling.
36:08Is it though?
36:09It's a legitimate feeling, but I, you know, for so many, for a lot of people watching this
36:12would be like, Oh, what, like, what are you now like connected to your mum and all this
36:16sort of stuff?
36:17It's like, yes.
36:18The answer would be yes.
36:19The answer would be yes.
36:20You know, there's, there's a, there's an energetic piece to this, which I never, I never, I never
36:25appreciated, never realized.
36:27Um, but when, when my son, when Archie was born and I had to go back into London and do
36:32the 40 minute drive in and out of London, I was so stressed with everything that was happening
36:37and everything that I was having to deal with.
36:38But then I would come back and I would literally grab, uh, take Archie off of, of Megan.
36:44And if I was still stressed, he would feel it immediately.
36:48Yes.
36:48And I got into this habit of, right.
36:50Okay.
36:50I'm now going to use this 40 minute drive to be able to try and like, just get that.
36:54And even when I got to the door of the house, I'd be like, like, can I, can I just,
36:58let's
36:59test this now.
37:00And I go in, I hold him and he like leans into me.
37:02I'm like, whoa, okay.
37:04So the energy is, that's just a real thing.
37:07Yeah.
37:07And I think as a, as a parent, we've just got to be so conscious about what we carry that
37:12they can pick up, especially like kids can pick up that we know how we're feeling.
37:16And maybe we don't know how we're feeling.
37:18Your kids will be the first people to tell you because they won't want to hang out with you.
37:21Yes.
37:22Yeah.
37:22And I don't know if you feel that as well, but I feel, I feel an energetic responsibility.
37:27I think it's what you're talking about too.
37:29Yes.
37:29You don't want to bring whatever toxicity you're carrying around, whether it's anger or frustration
37:36around them, it feels, um, it's responsibility.
37:41Yeah.
37:42Yeah.
37:42It's not always going to be possible.
37:44Yes.
37:44And you shouldn't, you shouldn't really like put that on yourself, but where, where it is
37:48possible, where you can try to heal yourself from the past, even heal yourself from the
37:53last week for their sake, you should absolutely do that.
37:57Yes.
37:58And my, I guess the reason why I keep sharing some parts of my story is because, and this
38:04is very much the same case in, in, uh, in the mental health community, which is global.
38:10You don't want anybody else to go through what you went through.
38:13And if there's some version of a lesson learned that you can share to help someone else, then
38:20you'll do everything you can to ensure that.
38:22You have mentioned a few times now, this idea of sharing your story and sharing your story.
38:27And, um, do you ever feel like, oh man, I've put a lot out there.
38:34Yes.
38:35But I prefer, I prefer me to be putting things out there rather than, um, the machine creating
38:42stuff.
38:44What do you mean by that?
38:45It doesn't matter whether you, if you, if you're, if someone like me, if you're sitting
38:48back, staying quiet, keeping low.
38:50Yeah.
38:51The, the, the stories, the stories don't stop.
38:54The stories are continuous.
38:56So you either just sit there and accept that all this crap is going to be, you know, created
39:01and people are going to write books about you and people are going to write stories, the
39:05hundreds of thousands, millions of stories about you over the years.
39:07Yes.
39:08And the vast majority of them are made up, untrue, or just really badly sourced, um, or
39:14with an agenda.
39:15So why not share some of your story?
39:18Why not try to be in control of your own story?
39:22Because if they, if they can't be responsible enough to tell your story, then you have to
39:26tell your own story.
39:27Yeah.
39:27But at the same time, you know, I've been really criticized for telling my story.
39:33You have.
39:33And I find that, and I find it is fascinating because everybody else is allowed to tell their
39:38version of my story.
39:39But God forbid, um, I should, um, should be able to tell the other side of it.
39:45Um, so it's, it's, it's interesting, but just by telling my own story, it takes away a
39:51lot of power from other people.
39:53Yes.
39:53Yeah.
39:54Well, I mean, I was thinking in some ways, the press is such a great wound in your life.
39:59And I was like, I probably look a lot like the, the press to him.
40:03You don't, you don't look sound or feel like a journalist.
40:07That's not a criticism.
40:10But, um, no, look, I, I, I find myself in a very interesting place, 42 years old, where
40:19growing up, I was surrounded by some of the worst forms of journalism.
40:24Yes.
40:25And yet here I am at 42 years old doing the best that I can do everything I can to
40:30try
40:30to uplift and support journalism because of the experience that I've had growing up where
40:35I'll be damned if you guys who pretend to be journalists are going to drag this whole
40:42profession down the drain.
40:44And I have, and I take real issue with that because journalism is proper journalism is so
40:50important.
40:51You just look around the world at the moment.
40:53As we've been talking, I've been thinking, you talk in the masterclass and have talked
40:59about the sort of search for purpose.
41:01And now here you are talking about grief and the most vulnerable things in your whole life.
41:09Do you think this is ultimately like the, the kind of like purpose that you found?
41:13Is that, is that what you're here to do?
41:15Do you think?
41:16Um, I think there's, there's yes.
41:18I think it's, uh, I think it's multi-purpose for me.
41:22Yeah.
41:22I think that, um, I think without purpose, I would be very lost.
41:28Like most people, I think we all have a purpose.
41:31We just need to find it.
41:32Um, my work drives me, the Invictus community inspires me and I will do and continue to do
41:41everything I can to help others find their purpose, uh, and encourage them to, to, to,
41:48to search for that.
41:49Probably helps you too though.
41:51Massively.
41:52Prince Harry, thank you so much.
41:53Oh, thank you, Zach.
41:54It's been great.
41:56Much better than I thought it was going to be.
41:57Really?
41:58No.
41:59Yeah.
41:59I didn't think it was going to be bad.
42:00Okay.