- 38 minutes ago
Senior BJP leader Smriti Irani slammed the opposition for questioning the government's intent on the Women's reservation bill.
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00:00Remember the numbers. It's now about the numbers. 4 p.m. tomorrow, the voting will take place on these contentious
00:07bills.
00:08The numbers at the moment make the Modi government's challenge very clear and difficult because these are constitutional amendment bills.
00:15They require two-thirds present and voting to have them passed.
00:19The current state of strength of the Lok Sabha is 540 members.
00:23So, effectively, to pass a constitutional amendment like the Women's Reservation Bill, the government will need the support of at
00:29least 360 MPs.
00:31At this point, the NDA has 293 MPs, which is well short of that mark.
00:36The India Bloc has 234 MPs, making it clear that if the opposition stays united, it will be very difficult
00:43for the government to get these bills passed.
00:46So, that is where the state of play is.
00:50It's time now to turn to my newsmakers tonight.
01:00Okay, my first guest then on the big debate today on women's reservation and delimitation is the former women's and
01:07child development minister, also BJP leader, Smriti Irani joins us.
01:11Good to have you on the show, Ms. Irani.
01:13The big question, the government is saying this is a moment whose – this is an idea whose time has
01:19come.
01:19The opposition is saying the government is using women's reservation to actually push through delimitation and redraw the political map
01:28of the country to their advantage.
01:30This is not about women's reservation.
01:32This is about redrawing the political map of the country and undermining democracy.
01:39The question is, when was representation, which is to be assured by parliament, to women of this country, divorced from
01:47the reality of delimitation?
01:52In 2023, when you were women and child development, you all decided to link women's reservation to the next delimitation
02:01after the census, which was to take place in 2026.
02:04In 2023, Mr. Sardesai, even then the question was, when will it be implemented?
02:10The government's position was post-census, post-delimitation.
02:15Yes.
02:16Today, when the opposition was up in arms in 2023, insisting that it get implemented in 2029 and wanted an
02:25assurance from the government to implement it in 2029.
02:30Why is it that now the opposition wants to walk away from that position?
02:34The government is ensuring that it is indeed implemented in 2029, and hence, to cede to the demand of the
02:44opposition to ensure the speedy implementation of 33% reservation, it is essential that the government's constitutional position today be
02:54supported by the opposition.
02:55But didn't you know it in 2023, that the census and the delimitation exercise could take a very long time
03:02and not meet the 2029 target, suddenly for three years of doing nothing, then five days before Tamil Nadu and
03:08West Bengal are going to the polls, government decides a special session.
03:12So there are questions whether this is politically time to take electoral advantage.
03:17Again, it's not about women's reservation, it's about political advantage.
03:22Firstly, Mr. Sardesai, you insult the intelligence of the Indian voters, especially in the states that you have mentioned, that
03:28they can be so swayed.
03:31Secondly, there isn't a month in our country where we do not celebrate our democracy or do not have some
03:37or the other of an election.
03:39Can you please tell me in the next forthcoming five to ten years, which one quarter of our country will
03:47never have an election?
03:49You could have done it in the monsoon session of parliament, after the election, monsoon session of parliament, after discussion
03:56and consultation.
03:57What was the hurry, the urgency that we've got to have a special session on the 17th and 16th to
04:0218th of April?
04:04This could easily be done in the monsoon session.
04:06Which election is, post which, how many elections are around the corner, Mr. Sardesai?
04:11Next year, in February.
04:15How many other elections are around the corner?
04:18Next year, in February, is the next round of elections.
04:21What is the guarantee?
04:23Then the opposition does not stand up and say, let this election go through.
04:29Can you give me guarantees on behalf of the opposition?
04:32I can give you no guarantees.
04:34All I'm questioning is the timing and the intent.
04:37That's what the opposition is questioning, timing and intent.
04:40Allow me, sir.
04:42What is the guarantee?
04:43What is the guarantee that once the census which is underway is completed, this very opposition will accept the data
04:50that comes forth?
04:53And will not cast its portions on the data?
04:56Can you please guarantee me?
04:58Ma'am, you make the point that can the opposition give any guarantees.
05:03Let me flip that.
05:04You're actually raising a point which is important, the mistrust between the opposition and the government.
05:09So, here's a simple solution.
05:12Tomorrow morning, government says, forget delimitation, forget census, 543-member parliament, 181 seats are being reserved for women and it
05:20will be done on 2029.
05:22Easiest way.
05:23Why is the government reluctant to do that now?
05:25Now, Mr. Sardesai, your position is, hence the government should absolutely reject constitutional provisions.
05:33Your position is, the government should reject constitutional procedures.
05:39Your position is that the government should reject the maryada of the constitution and take the Rajdeep Sardesai formula and
05:48help it implement.
05:49No, this is not a Rajdeep Sardesai formula.
05:51This is the same formula which in 2010 was used.
05:55543 seats, it was passed in the Rajya Sabha, one-third will be for women.
05:59I'm saying tomorrow morning it will end all the mistrust on both sides.
06:04How will you redraw constituencies without delimitation?
06:09You can do it without delimitation.
06:10You can allow women to have, that's exactly why, Mr. Sardesai, since you do not respect constitutional positions and procedures,
06:19thank God you're not the Prime Minister of India.
06:21No, I'm not, but I'm asking you a simple question.
06:24Instead of 850 seats and increasing parliament, in the present parliament itself, what happens if one-third are reserved for
06:31women?
06:31That's the commitment that both sides should show.
06:36Either I can answer or you can pontificate.
06:39No, please go ahead.
06:42The question is this.
06:44Is there a procedure under which the 33% reservation for women is to be implemented?
06:49Yes.
06:51Are constituencies to be redrawn through delimitation?
06:54Yes.
06:55Is there a data subset that a government needs to depend on?
06:59Yes.
06:59Is that data available to the government?
07:02Yes.
07:03Is that data being proffered by this government?
07:06Or is the legacy of the UPA led by the Congress Party?
07:12So, if this government is showing faith in a census which was undertaken by a Congress-led government,
07:21I do not know why then the opposition hankers so.
07:26The fear is not the census of 2011.
07:29The real fear, I sense, is delimitation.
07:32Redrawing of maps.
07:33You've already seen the southern states saying they will lose out.
07:36And the fear is of gerrymandering that constituencies will be redrawn to favor the government of the day.
07:41The second question is this.
07:44Not at all.
07:44You have the Prime Minister and the Home Minister giving assurances on the floor of the House.
07:49And their word has been upheld on the floor of the House.
07:55Assuring that no state, no community will be disenfranchised.
08:02That is a position the government has clearly taken.
08:05The opposition says, look at Assam and Jammu and Kashmir.
08:08The constituencies have been redrawn to favor the government.
08:10Their fear is, you want to redraw, I repeat, the political map of the country under the guise of women's
08:16reservation.
08:18Mr. Sardesai, their fear is that they are already unpopular.
08:22There will be opportunities for them to be unpopular even more.
08:28Can I ask you this, ma'am?
08:30Not the position of the government.
08:32Sir, allow me to finish.
08:34From what I have heard, it is not the position of the government
08:37that any political party is constrained from fighting from any seat in the country.
08:44So, is the opposition of the position that the delimited status of constituencies today
08:51has historically favored the opposition?
08:57Is the opposition's position today that when they were in power, they redrew constituencies
09:06so that it politically favors them and hence is fearful that others will follow suit?
09:14Spriti Hirani, the point, ma'am, Spriti Hirani is, I come back to it, because of the level of mistrust,
09:21you need an alternative formula.
09:23Now, there are two alternatives.
09:24I am saying existing 543, reserve one-third.
09:28You're saying that's not possible, that's constitutionally not possible.
09:32But it's very easy.
09:34It's a very easy, that's the easiest thing to do.
09:36You'll agree with that?
09:38You agree that's the easiest thing to do?
09:40The democracy and the constitutional positions that the government has to serve
09:46is not easy.
09:48It has to be thoughtful and purposeful
09:50and work within the confines of what is the government's constitutional responsibility.
09:57You talk, Mr. Sardesai, you talk, Mr. Sardesai, about mistrust
10:04between the government and the opposition.
10:07As a citizen, let's answer.
10:09How can you trust an opposition
10:11that wanted the government to implement 33 present reservation in 2020,
10:16in 2023, but reverses his position in 2026?
10:22No, but both sides have gone and reversed it.
10:24And you've also said earlier you had agreed
10:26that it would be the census and delimitation of 2026.
10:29Now you're going back to 2011.
10:31So it's not as if only one side is reversing its position.
10:34Let's be very honest about that.
10:36The fact is that it seems almost as if the government wants a quick fix formula.
10:41Answer this one question of mine.
10:42Answer this one question of mine.
10:44Has the government taken a position, it will not depend on census?
10:50No?
10:52As the government changes its position, that will not depend on delimitation?
10:56No.
10:58And thus, my request to you, get me a guarantee from the opposition
11:03that this census, which is...
11:10...position,
11:11and they will not cast aspersions on any data,
11:14on any intent of any constitutional body.
11:19Ma'am?
11:20Can you give me that guarantee, sir?
11:22Ma'am, I am no one to give any guarantees
11:24that is for the leaders of political parties to give guarantees.
11:27But let me...
11:28Sir, the only guarantee today...
11:29Sir, the only guarantee today I have as a female citizen...
11:38Go ahead.
11:39...is that there is a bill before both the government
11:42and the opposition in the parliament of India.
11:46Yes.
11:48And it is the responsibility of every political party
11:53to ensure that political equity is given to women of this country.
11:58Yes.
11:58So, I mean, there are various ways in which you can give political equity
12:02without necessarily having to...
12:04Necessarily having to redraw the political map of the country.
12:08Sir, the only way this will get done...
12:11Yes.
12:12Sir, please allow me, Mr. Sardesai,
12:14the only way this will get done is through the constitutional way
12:17so that it can never be challenged in the Supreme Court.
12:21You're offering formulas
12:24so that there is such a disassociation constitutionally
12:27so that some Tom Dickin political Harry will get up tomorrow
12:31and challenge that methodology in the Supreme Court.
12:35What the government is doing today
12:39is constitutionally proven procedures.
12:44You know, you're saying that that is a constitutionally proven procedure.
12:48I took you back to 2010 when the bill was passed in the Rajya Sabha,
12:52one-third of 543 were to be reserved for women.
12:55Sir, for the bill to be passed, sir, since you want me to go back to 2010,
13:00firstly, tell your viewers that without the BJP,
13:03it could have never passed the Rajya Sabha.
13:04Second, I can never have a government implement a bill
13:08that is only passed in Rajya Sabha.
13:10Bills which passed in both Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha are implementable, sir.
13:17So, I'm saying, why don't you want to go back to 2010?
13:20It's the easiest formula.
13:21That's all I'm saying.
13:22Please don't be so doey-eyed.
13:24It would only have been practical to implement such a proposal
13:27if it had passed both houses of parliament.
13:29So, now my question is this.
13:33Why didn't then the Congress-led UPA pass it in Lok Sabha where it had the strength
13:37when it knew that BJP in opposition is supporting it in Rajya Sabha?
13:42If this was genuinely the intent of the opposition?
13:46Okay.
13:47Can I...
13:47Good question, which the Congress should answer,
13:50but can I therefore ask you one final question?
13:53As one of the leading women politicians,
13:55I saw...
13:56I was looking at the numbers of the last Lok Sabha, 2024.
14:00Your party gave 16,
14:02won 6% of the seats to women.
14:0469 seats.
14:05The Congress gave 13%.
14:07Most parties gave single-digit percentages.
14:10Do you believe that the real problem is
14:12that we have a male-dominated political system
14:15that simply still will do all it can to resist
14:18genuine women's empowerment?
14:20The answer to that is this.
14:22That it is a male president of the Bharatiya Janata Party
14:26that passed 33% reservation for women within the BJP.
14:30While a party,
14:31one of the oldest political organizations in the country
14:34with a female president could not manage it.
14:36Well, they passed 33% reservation for panchayats
14:39when Rajiv Gandhi was prime minister.
14:41So, they could say they started this process.
14:44In that case,
14:45in that case, sir,
14:46let me say this.
14:47They had an historical six-decade opportunity.
14:51Why is it that they denied women of this country
14:53political equity for six decades?
14:56My other thing,
14:58my other position is this, sir.
14:59It is a male prime minister today
15:02who is pushing for this legislation
15:05so that it's implementable in 2029.
15:08While we've had a UPA chairperson
15:10who was female in gender,
15:12who had the historic opportunity
15:14of passing it in Lok Sabha and did not.
15:17Okay.
15:18Smriti Irani,
15:19combative as ever.
15:20Good to see you.
15:21And thank you very much for joining me.
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