00:00Rinala Palacio is former foreign minister for Spain. It's great to have you on, but I want to know why
00:06this was the moment that both sides decided, right, we're going to do this, the barriers are going to come
00:11down.
00:12There are different aspects. This is about the internal market. You have said, and allow me to correct, this is
00:20not British territory. This is a colony. It's not self-governing territory where Great Britain is an administering power. So
00:29this has a very clear legal content.
00:32But the truth of the matter is that the internal market has always had problems with Gibraltar when Great Britain
00:41was a member of the European Union.
00:44And now I think that there is a move, both sides of the channel, to do things together because Brexit
00:53has proved to be a mistake. In the Union, nobody wants to follow Brexit.
01:00Remember that in 2016 or 2017, people would say, oh, there will be Brexit and whatever exit. No, nobody wants
01:08to leave. And frankly, in Great Britain, there is a majority of the public opinion that thinks that it was
01:14not a good deal.
01:16And I think that this is the beginning, because at the same time we have a defense and foreign affairs
01:28where Great Britain is a great player vis-à-vis Ukraine, vis-à-vis for the Union is an existential
01:35matter.
01:36So I think that this is symbolic. It's also important, as you have highlighted it, for the livelihoods, for the
01:43livelihoods and also for certain aspects of the internal market. Not all.
01:53If you've been negotiating this 20 years ago, when you were Spain's foreign minister, do you think it could have
02:00ever happened? I'm just wondering, who has shown the most flexibility?
02:0520 years ago, it was a different world. And frankly, the conversation was between Great Britain and Spain and about
02:14sovereignty.
02:16Gibraltar was not a party. Later governments brought Gibraltar as a party, but we were strictly legal and we were
02:25discussing joint sovereignty.
02:27This was what was being discussed. And the world has changed. I think that here we have an opportunity for
02:37practical issues. And practical issues, in the end, makes reality.
02:41You know, makes, in the last instance, just favors relations. You have mentioned the 15,000 people that every day
02:51cross la linea to go to work in Gibraltar.
02:55But there are 45,000 people and families that perceive pensions that come from Gibraltar. And frankly, also, you know,
03:05it's Palmerston, pure Palmerston.
03:07The way these pensions were delivered was also depending on the negotiations with Spain.
03:16So I think that it's important. We should have, as European Union, and Spain has not been party, as I
03:24say, this was about the competencies of the European Union internal market.
03:28But the European Union, in my opinion, should have pushed the environmental just block.
03:37Because the emissions to the sea by Gibraltar are really a problem. And this hasn't been pushed. I hope that
03:45Gibraltar will understand and will do it on their own.
03:49And frankly, the other aspect is that Gibraltar goes on gaining artificial territory by putting blocks in the sea, which
03:59we criticize to other international actors when they do.
04:03But we do, but we do it. I mean, we, Europeans. Just Great Britain does it.
04:09Anna Placium, I'm afraid we have to leave it there, but it's always great getting your insight. Thank you so
04:13much.
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