00:00In principle, kailangan po ba ng patunay na may kinontratang asasin para maituring na grave threats ang mga sinabi?
00:11Well, Your Honor, in so far as the crime of grave threats is concerned, hindi po yun kailangan.
00:17Senator Judge Antiveros, Senator Judge Villaneva, and thereafter, we pause for a 10-minute break.
00:26You may proceed, ma'am. You have two minutes.
00:28Yes. Salamat, Mr. Presiding Officer.
00:32Attorney Lotok.
00:34Opo, yes, Your Honor.
00:36Sa affidavit of investigation dated February 10, 2025, nirekomenda ng NBI na sampahan ng mga kasong grave threats at inciting
00:49to sedition ang vicepresidente.
00:51Pwede po bang idahilan sa mga kasong yan na nadala lang ng emoson or may matinding trigger kaya nakapagsambit ng
01:02ganoon?
01:04I don't think, Your Honor, kasi wala naman sa elements ng grave threats yung situation na yun.
01:14As long as we were able to satisfy the elements for grave threats, Your Honor, and when the Department of
01:27Justice certifies na kumpleto yung elemento doon.
01:32So, no, Your Honor, hindi po yan mag-mamatter doon sa findings namin.
01:44At yung sinabi po ninyong elements of grave threats, yun po yung apat na in-enumerate nyo kanina.
01:53Ano po yung elements of grave threats?
01:55Yes, Your Honor, number one, that a person threatened to inflict another person upon the latter's person, owner of property,
02:09or that of the latter's family with any wrong.
02:12That's the first element.
02:14The second element, that wrong amounts to a crime.
02:20Then, the third element is yung may demand for money or may condition na in-imposed.
02:30In our investigation, mayroon hong tatlong acts para mag-commit yung grave threats.
02:36Basi doon sa tatlong elements na sinabi ko, the offender have complied with the threat na sinabi niya.
02:47The offender, hindi niya na-comply yung threat na sinabi niya or yung pangatlong act.
02:54Yung walang condition, yung threat na yun, Your Honor.
03:01Mga dalawang beses niyo po binanggit yung salitang condition, Attorney Lotok.
03:06Itatanong ko yan mamaya-maya.
03:08Kaya, sa DOJ po, sa DOJ naman, may kriteriya ng reasonable certainty of conviction bago magsampan ang kaso.
03:17Sa NBI, yes, Attorney.
03:19Sa NBI, ano naman po ang pamantayang sinusunda ninyo bago mag-recommenda ng kaso?
03:27Well, sinusunod din ho namin yung quantum of evidence na prima facie, evidence with reasonable certainty of conviction.
03:36Kaya ho, kung makikita nyo yung pong aming processes o yung phases, yung pang last po niya is legal evaluation.
03:45Meaning, pag meron na ho kaming conclusion, bago ho namin ito isubmit sa DOJ, meron ho referral kaming ginagawa sa
03:54legal division or nagpapatulong ho kami sa aming mga legal experts.
03:59So, sila ho ngayon yung nag-i-evaluate.
04:01Sila ang mag-e-qualify kung na-satisfy na yung requirements at kung pwede na siyang isubmit sa DOJ for
04:08purposes of preliminary investigation, ma'am.
04:11Alright, salamat, Attorney.
04:12So, kahit papaano in-approximate nyo yung kriteria na sinusunda ng DOJ kahit bilang NBI?
04:20Yes, Your Honor. And that is on the basis of our cherished principle, the two-pillar rule in investigation, thoroughness
04:30and legality, Your Honor.
04:32Alright, salamat po.
04:33So, ito, in principle, kailangan po ba ng patunay na may kinontratang assassin para maituring na grave threats ang mga
04:47sinabi?
04:48Well, Your Honor, in so far as the crime of grave threats is concerned, hindi po yung kailangan.
04:54Alright.
04:57Speaking of condition, kanina na binanggit nyo dalawang beses,
05:00posible po ba ang grave threats kahit may kondisyon ang banta?
05:06Ibig sabihin yung kapag ito nangyari sa akin, ito ay mga gawin mo.
05:12Kahit may kondisyon yung banta, posible po ba ang grave threats?
05:17Very much possible, Your Honor.
05:19As I have said, grave threats can be committed with or without condition.
05:23And as a matter of fact, mayroon akong naalala ng isang case,
05:28SPO2 Jamaka versus Attorney Bangot.
05:31So, ang sabi ho doon ni SPO2 Jamaka,
05:37if I lose my job, I will break your head or I will...
05:41So, it's for us, it's a kind of event-based condition
05:45na matitrigger yung execution ng threat pag nangyari yung event.
05:50But then, when the Supreme Court decide,
05:53nag-decide at the Supreme Court, ito ang sabi niya,
05:55the threat was absolute.
05:57So, it's absolute yung threat, hindi conditional.
06:00So, parang ganito, akin sa situation dito,
06:05meron siyang sort of event-based condition
06:08na pag nangyari yung event, matitrigger ngayon yung
06:13yung threat na in-atter ng offender, Your Honor.
06:18So, masasabi pong may jurisprudence po
06:20dahil may nakikita kayong pagkahalintula
06:23dun sa kasong ni Rule ng SC,
06:26kaugnay ni SPO2 Jamaka at itong kay Vice President.
06:32Yes, Your Honor.
06:33Alright. Huling tanong na lang po,
06:35Attorney Lotok.
06:38Bilang abogado po, as a general rule,
06:42kailan po masasabing lampas sa free speech
06:46ang pananalita at nagiging grave threats
06:51o inciting to sedition na?
06:54Well, we consider the two tests.
06:59Number one, yung...
07:06Hindi kung mabigkas, Your Honor,
07:08but it's like...
07:11Ano pang tendency to rule?
07:12If I may, Your Honor,
07:14just to refer my notes.
07:15May he, presiding officer.
07:17Witness may do so.
07:18Yeah, yeah.
07:19Kindly turn on the mic.
07:20Witness may do so, yes.
07:25Thank you, Your Honor.
07:33Yeah, we consider, Your Honor,
07:36the clear and present danger rule
07:39and the dangerous tendency rule.
07:41But among the two,
07:43ang nakita ho namin yung
07:44the dangerous tendency rule.
07:47Meaning if...
07:48If the speech would have a tendency
07:55to create chaos
07:56or to create illegal acts,
08:02then that should be restricted.
08:03Pag may tendency ho
08:05na magiging ganon ang resulta.
08:08So, huli po, attorney,
08:11masasabing bang may parang spectrum
08:15pwedeng nagsisimula sa free speech,
08:17pero pag lumalapit na
08:19dun sa dangerous tendency rule,
08:22ay maaaring na talagang tumawid
08:24sa magiging grave threats
08:25o inciting to sedition.
08:27Yun.
08:28Yes, Your Honor.
08:28Pwede po yun.
08:29Alright.
08:30Maraming salamat po,
08:31attorney Loto.
08:31Salamat po,
08:32Mr. Presiding Officer.
08:33Noted and entered into the records.
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