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00:16Welcome back to another edition of New York Got Game. It's Dexter Henry and we know this for years
00:20in New York Knicks. They've been one of the easiest targets in sports media. Every loss
00:25became a crisis. Every trade rumor became a national story and even when the Knicks started
00:30winning it sometimes felt like people were more interested in discussing the team they should
00:34build rather than the team that was actually on the court. Now my friend he is the great content
00:39creator host and Knicks Film School contributor Jeff Johnson. He's got a name for that entire
00:44ecosystem. It's called the Knicks for Clicks Industrial Complex. But now the Knicks they've
00:51done the one thing that was supposed to end every argument. They won the NBA championship
00:57in 2026 and we saw it all. Jalen Brunson, he proved that he could be the best player on
01:02the title team. Mikael Bridges, he helped deliver a championship after two years of hearing about
01:07those five first round picks. And the core that supposedly wasn't good enough is now forever
01:13a part of Knicks history. So here's a question. Did we watch the party die here? Did the Knicks
01:19for Clicks Industrial Complex actually fall? Has winning a championship finally changed
01:24the way that this team is discussed? Or are the same people who doubted the Knicks simply
01:29waiting for their next opportunity to move the goalpost? Those are the major questions.
01:35So we're going to talk about it. We're going to do that this week on New York God Game.
01:39We're going to do it with my guy who I just mentioned from Knicks Film School, the one and
01:43only Jeff Johnson joins me now. Jeff, what's going on, man? How you doing?
01:47Dex, what's going on, brother? It's great to be alive in New York City on probably the
01:55most historic year, one of the most historic years in the history of the city. So I love
01:59to be here, man.
02:00Yeah, no, glad to have you here. I thought about this conversation, followed the Knicks
02:04championship, and I was like, there's no other person I could talk to about this other than
02:08my guy, Jeff. So let me, let's start with this, because after the Knicks won the title,
02:13Jeff, you declared that the Knicks for Clicks industrial complex has fallen. Are we here today
02:21to hold the funeral? Or has the complex simply just gone underground until the Knicks, you
02:26know, they lose three straight games in November and the folks come back out and start panicking
02:31again? Where are we right now? Is the funeral here or are they just waiting to rise again?
02:36So what you needed to do, Dex, was you needed to stay for the post movie credits, the post
02:42credit scene. You had to stay for the post credit scene, right? What I said was they have
02:48fallen, but the key word was this version, which could possibly be the strongest version
02:55ever of the complex has fallen. But what is going to rise out of the ashes is something
03:01that could be far more sinister. So while I do not think it is time to hold a funeral,
03:07it is time to look to the stars and say, Hey, I think they're building another death star.
03:13Just be ready for it and be vigilant because if anything has proven probably the validity of
03:22being a part of the Knicks for Clicks agenda, it is that the NBA had one of its biggest booms
03:30ratings rating wise in Q2 of 2026. So when you click responsibly, you see what happens,
03:37right? And there's no doubt that the history and the fan base powered those ratings through
03:44throughout the entire run. So there is some truth to the fact that when the Knicks are in
03:49the conversation, everybody benefits from engagement and views and attention economy and all of that.
03:57So while I do not think it is the actual end, I don't think it's going to be as strong
04:03as it was
04:04when they were in a 53 year drought, but yeah, they are ready to rise from the ashes and strike
04:10again. Okay. So that's interesting because you do feel like there is some sort of shift, right? And,
04:15but we could also see a reshifting of this and my bad, I should have stayed for the credits. You
04:21know,
04:21somebody who watches movies. I know how this is after this, you got to stay for the credits and
04:26you know, see, see what's going after. It's like, I heard some people at the, uh, Jay-Z show the
04:30other
04:30day, the first night here at Yankee stadium, I heard they left early. I don't like, why would you
04:34do that? I don't know why, but you got to stay for the credits. Got to make sure things are
04:38gone
04:39before we start naming the worst offenders here, Jeff, because we got to get to that.
04:44Where is the line between legitimate criticism of the Knicks and then someone or people using
04:51the Knicks fan base to manufacture controversy and engagement? I'm very curious in your perspective
04:57of that, just watching over the years, where's the line there? I think with anything, it is a fine line
05:03because we're in the business of giving opinions based on analysis, based on gut feeling. And every
05:11single person who covers a sport has an inner fan within them. If they don't agree to that,
05:17then they're lying or they're at least not being truthful with themselves. So fan is short for
05:23fanatic and it tends to skew our opinions a bit, especially when we're passionate about something,
05:30especially when we may just not believe. I do think there is a place for legit criticism. And the
05:36one thing that I've consistently said is some of that stuff, the Knicks and their organization
05:42brought upon themselves. It's evident it's etched in history, bad trades, bad contracts,
05:48a lot of other things going on in the press. Like they, they've earned legit criticism where we fall
05:54off the precipice without a parachute is when it starts to turn into mean spirited or outrageous
06:02commentary. So for years as a fan and covering the team, I used to hear about how the Knicks didn't
06:09matter. The Knicks were irrelevant. They haven't been good in X amount of years. Why do we talk about
06:14them? But I would see those same people on national platforms getting off their five minute comedy
06:21routines. Anytime the Knicks came up in conversation, the Knicks would be on the incline. Think about when
06:27Amari Stoudemire signed here and that fun team. Well, albeit, yeah, they were a 500 team, but they
06:33did inject life into the city. You had a bunch of people that would pile on and say, oh, this
06:37is
06:38fool's gold. This is smoking mirrors. It's not going to last instead of leaning into what was a feel
06:44good story about the potential renaissance of a legacy franchise. If this happened in any other part
06:50of the country, I don't think they get the same amount of smoke. I mean, we had the Sacramento Kings
06:56in a smoldering crater of irrelevancy and incompetence for decades. And the same people
07:05will tell me, ah, Sacramento, nobody cares about that. Come on, Jeff. What are we talking about
07:11Sacramento for? It speaks for itself, which validates my point that when you are a magnetic
07:19topic of conversation, you are relevant. You're forever relevant because you're tied to the most
07:25relevant city on the planet. You're tied to one of the most authentic and loyal fan bases in all of
07:30sports. You know that if you say something that's over the top, New Yorkers don't shut up. So they're
07:37going to return that energy in kind. And what does that do for the people? What does that do for
07:41the
07:42brands? What does that do for the networks? Exposure, CPMs, views, engagement, and they get what they
07:49want. The problem was they never thought that the Knicks would win a title. They got high off their
07:56own supply and completely eliminated the possibility that, hey, sometime in the near future, these guys
08:03could actually win a title. And when they did, Knicks fans, generations of Knicks fans, and rightfully
08:09so, spun the block. And they pulled up old receipts and they pulled up all of those sensationalized
08:17quotes. And now they're being told why y'all not celebrating your title. Get over it. Funny how that
08:24works, where now we are including a code of ethics on how fan bases can celebrate their title. Never
08:33heard this in any other sport until today when the Knicks won the title. This is where KFC ICV2 has
08:40updated. This is the iOS update for the Knicks for Clicks Industrial Complex. Now, now it's act like
08:47you got here. And what I say, act like you got here is a ballad sung by losers who are
08:54jealous
08:54that they don't have the classic album of a winner. I love that. That's a bar right there. You said
09:01a lot there. One of the things I love that you did there, Jeff, was you brought up the comparison
09:06of
09:08Sacramento just even a couple years ago. That Light the Bean team, right? And no shade to you. If you
09:13love
09:13Sacramento, you're from Sacramento. But that is Sacramento. And people, not people, I'll even put it
09:18this up, being part of the media. The media, I don't even usually like using that term, but
09:22journalists, content creators, sports analysts talked about that like it was a feel-good story.
09:29That it was. Erotically enough, Mike Brown was also coaching that team. They talked about it in that
09:34way, right? So when it comes to New York, I think there's an air, as somebody who does this,
09:42is that New York is sometimes too good, too big for a feel-good story. I don't believe that. Like
09:49as somebody who loves journalism, good stories are wherever the good stories are, right? And I know
09:54you feel the same way. Now, I think good stories can be even more amplified, to your point, when you
10:00have a starving fan base. This goes for any sport. This was whether it was the Red Sox in 2004.
10:06This is
10:07whether it was the Cubs when they won their first title. You have these droughts. I'm sure if one day
10:12the Browns do this in football, it'll be the same way, right? You have to respect the story. The
10:18stories matter. Now, I said we're going to talk about that before we got to some takes. And if
10:25we were going to create a museum of mixed takes that aged terribly, which narrative would you put
10:32in the front lobby? Would it be Jalen Brunson can't be a number one? We've heard that from several
10:37people. Would it be Mikael Bridges? That trade was a disaster and it would never work.
10:41Would it be just that this core, because we heard this too, this Knicks core that won the title
10:46couldn't win a title? Or is this something else? What are you putting in the lobby of the museum
10:51of bad Knicks takes? I think the you can't win with Jalen Brunson as your best player, it deserves its
11:00own wing in the hall. Its own wing, its own floor at this point, because that narrative originally
11:08started about getting out of the East and then the goalpost shifted to winning a title. And the
11:14problem is when you make a statement that's absolute, when you deal in absolutes, you're always going to be
11:24wrong. When you deal with absolutes, you're always going to be wrong because there is going to be an
11:31example that is contrary to your absolute. You say you can't win with a short player. There's literally a
11:39history. Now, if you say odds are you can't because there's only been a few, that's more accurate. But when
11:45you, when you shut the door, there's always going to be an outlier or an exception to open that door
11:52right up. And I think I was more disappointed in people who couldn't see the intangibles and the
12:00actual skill that Brunson had and open up the possibility that if, even if you don't believe
12:08that he can do it or that it can be done by somebody that's 6'2 and shorter, you should
12:16be
12:16able to open up the possibility to say, if anyone can do it, he would be on my short list.
12:22I think
12:23that's fair. But I do think that Brunson narrative jumped the shark years ago and it just continued to
12:31escalate. But once again, now he's proven it. Now he's the exception. And now everybody's kind of
12:36shrugging like, well, of course he could do it. No, no, no, no, no. You don't get to do that.
12:40The fans remember, the North remembers, everyone remembers. So yes, they're going to let you know
12:45about it. I think that one is obvious. The other one that I think definitely goes up there is the,
12:53you can't win a title if two of your stars are considered negative defenders. Similar to the Brunson,
13:03he doesn't wear lifts in his shoes, so he can't be a number one on a title team comment. I
13:11think with
13:11that, you once again did not leave room for, hey, maybe these guys can step up and be stars in
13:20their
13:20role. They don't have to be all world defenders, but they can try and give effort. You, you kind of
13:26ignore the whole Jalen Brunson, low rim protector, uh, angle with the way that he draws charges.
13:34You also ignore someone like Carl Anthony Towns, who you go look at advanced analytics. You want to
13:43talk about a drastic contrast between perception and reality where you could pencil in from people
13:53that cat is a horrible defender. You go look at offense. You go look at advanced analytics of any
14:00kind, and they'll tell you he's more stout on that end than you would believe. And he's more of a
14:05positive. And I think the eye test caught up with the analytics, this playoff run where he was able to
14:10step up and be a good defender, not just a passable defender, not just an acceptable defender, a good
14:17defender. Same thing with Jalen Brunson, say for a couple of possessions or CJ McCollum,
14:22way back in the stone ages of the first round of the playoffs this year, he held up. There was
14:29at
14:29one point, there was a stat decks that he was a better individual defender in the finals than
14:37Wemby based on field goal percentage of, of the opponents that they guarded. If that ain't stepping
14:44up, I don't know what is. So I think that we have to be mindful of closing off our minds
14:50to
14:50possibilities, because that's not how analysis works. You can say based on what you, you see, what
14:56you think is going to happen, but you also have to leave room for the what if scenario. And that's
15:00what makes sports so incredible is when the what if scenario becomes what now. Right. And I agree with
15:07your point about, I try not to engage this, always talking to absolutes, because as you said, you can
15:12always be proven wrong and you have to allow yourself for the possibilities that things can
15:18change. Now, like you said, odds can be against you. We're not going to deny the odds here, but that
15:24doesn't mean things that can change. I love that you brought up that narrative that was so prevalent
15:30after the Knicks lost to the Pacers in 2025 that, okay, you're not going to be able to win
15:37with two of your stars being your worst defensive players, right? There are people who said that as
15:42an absolute, this will not happen. The Knicks are going to have to blow this up. They're going to
15:45have to change things up. Clearly, they did not have to, but to go back to the Jalen Brunson of
15:49it
15:49all here, Jeff, because he did the one thing that people said he couldn't do. He led the Knicks to
15:54a
15:54championship. There were folks that said he couldn't do this as a 1A guy. Do you think that permanently
16:00ends that he's not a 1A conversation or will we see more goalposts moving? Will people move the
16:05goalposts even more to where he's got to repeat? Oh, he's got to be part of a guy that leads
16:12a team
16:13to a dynasty and or maybe talk more about where does he rank among all time point guards? Do you
16:18think the goalposts will be moved or is this conversation ended that a guy like Jalen Brunson
16:23can lead you to a championship? I think on that specific point as to whether or not he can lead
16:30to a championship, the case is closed. He's already done it. And the beauty of the,
16:35the dismantling of this early version, the first version, the strongest version of the
16:40Knicks for Clicks industrial complex is you don't got to listen to these people with their
16:44old takes anymore. They got to come up with new takes now because the old takes are evaporated
16:49into the dust, just like Thanos snapped them into hell, right? Like they're gone. You said,
16:56y'all said he could not win as the best player on a championship team. He could not bring the
17:03team
17:03a title. He was the finals MVP. He was the Eastern conference finals MVP. He was the NBA cup MVP.
17:11He ran the gamut. He almost put up the quadruple of MVP awards. Actual, if you want to count the
17:18all-star game, he won three out of five MVPs that you could win in a season on the way
17:25to leading a team
17:27that had the largest point differential in NBA history, scored 45, literally 47, 48% of his team's
17:37points in a closeout game on the road. That case is closed. What we're seeing now is the new goalpost.
17:45Apparently the Knicks championship has started the demise of rings culture because boy,
17:53now when people start to discuss where Jalen Brunson's historic standing is, and even his
17:59current standing, you get mountains of pushback from people. Oh my God, he's only won one title.
18:06You guys are losing your mind. People have been losing their minds over rings for this whole century.
18:12Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I, I, I'm just stopping you there.
18:17Not because you said something crazy, but I just want to be clear about something. We just saw
18:21a couple of years ago, a starved fan base in the Milwaukee Bucks win a title and Giannis delivered it
18:32for them. Who's no longer there delivered. And people were like, this was great. And I think that was one
18:37of the great finals we saw in recent history and great moments in basketball. So I'm going to push back
18:44on that, not to you, but to those people that, well, if you're going to praise Giannis for that,
18:48at which I saw universal praise and rightfully so the same should be done here for Jalen Brunson.
18:54Should it, should it not? Yeah, I think so. And I think what you are seeing is universal praise.
18:59And I think it's, it's also an overcorrection to the nasty narratives that were out there before
19:05the asinine nonsensical narratives that were put on Jalen Brunson's name. Now you're seeing an
19:11overcorrection and yeah, people are calling it like they see it and thinking to themselves
19:17with legitimacy, right? For the last four years, you could argue, strongly argue that there hasn't
19:26been a better playoff performer this decade than Jalen Brunson. Look at the numbers, look at how
19:32every post season he's been with the Knicks, he's been compared to Michael Jordan in some type of
19:37post season record. Think about what he did this season. Oh, and by the way, he did at least a
19:44portion of this with a messed up wrist that required surgery in the off season. Bro, you want to talk
19:52about lore? The script writers were in their bag with this one. So at this point, when they start
19:58talking about who ranks where and people put Brunson in their top tens, in their top fives, call them the
20:06best point guard in the league. Now you have to look at the historical record and say, oh, wow, he
20:13was
20:13really killing it. Maybe we were wilding. Yeah, yeah, you were. And we were trying to tell y'all, a
20:20lot of
20:20smart people were trying to tell you, hey, look at this Brunson kid, he's cooking. But because he has seven
20:26letters on his chest representing the city of New York, and this Knicks fan base, people automatically
20:33dismissed it because where are the Knicks going? The Knicks are a horrible organization. They're never
20:38going to win a championship. So why laud this person? And I promise you if he was doing this in
20:42a flyover state, Brunson's name would be sung around campfires and post-battle celebrations
20:51for the rest of time. Yeah. By those same detractors. Yeah. My thing is always listening. And as people,
21:00we create content and do this around the Knicks. It's like, yeah, let's let's have an honest
21:05conversation. We're not here to just wave the pom poms. We'll get into more of that later. But let's just
21:10have an honest conversation about this, Jeff, and give the credit where the credit is due. That's all I
21:15asked for. And that kind of brings me to the next play I want to talk to you about. That's
21:19Mikkel Bridges. Because after years of hearing about five first round picks, and listen, I'm going
21:24to be honest with people here. It's not that I wasn't critical of Mikkel Bridges at times because
21:32I was on this very show. I know you have been on KFS. You have been critical of Mikkel Bridges
21:38at
21:39time. But you did hear about the five first round picks every time that man had a bad night,
21:43especially offensively. Anytime you had a rough night, the five first round picks came
21:47up, came up. So do Leon Rose and the Knicks, do they now get to say they won that trade
21:53full
21:54stop? Or is it fair for people to do what I think is going to happen, which is continue
22:00to evaluate the long term costs? I'm going to say this, my own state, my opinion here.
22:07When you win a championship, you make any trades like this, and then you get a title. I don't
22:11think you got to answer to anything to anybody. You the job has been done. If you win multiples,
22:16it's nice. You can tell me about the long term course. You worry about that stuff down the
22:20road. Are you with me on that, Jeff? Or do you feel differently? And do you think people
22:25are going to push the goalposts on this one, too?
22:29I say the same thing I say for the Brunson discourse. They won the title. The case is closed.
22:35The trade was a success because it was about bringing a championship and ending the drought.
22:39Do I think it's fair to say, hey, what are going to be the future implications?
22:44It's something to watch. Sure. I don't think anybody in that front office cares because if
22:52it's one thing they've shown is they have a plan. Contrary to popular belief. Oh, remember
22:57that take? The Knicks did not have a plan in signing Mike Brown. Mike Brown was the fifth
23:01option. Why are they asking coaches that are under contract whether or not they want to coach?
23:08As if 90% of us don't get a job while being at a current employer, which are technically under
23:15contract. Jeff, I also said this last summer. No, fantastic point there. But also, how about the
23:21fact that most of us, when we apply to jobs, we have no idea where we rank. You don't know
23:27if you
23:27were the fifth choice. You have no idea if you were the fifth choice when you got a job.
23:32None. And I bet you those same people would say, I don't care. I got the job, though.
23:36Exactly. That's how I feel. Thanks. So, yeah, I think it's good. The other way I think this trade
23:43is going to age well is because of the new lottery rules and how the odds have flattened,
23:50in a sense, that have lowered the value of certain first-round picks wherever they fall.
23:57The Knicks are going to be projected to be in the lower 20s of draft picks, at least for the
24:03next two
24:04or three years. So, if I'm not mistaken, their latest McHale pick is 20-31. By that time,
24:13depending on how the team goes, they might have already retooled once, if not twice,
24:18in this parity era. They'll get picks back at some point. They'll have to do it, but they'll get
24:25picks back at some point. So, I don't think that whatever future ramifications
24:33of the Bridges trade that you could think of is going to have any bearing on the historic nature
24:39of this trade and what it ultimately resulted in, which was a Knicks world title because they got the
24:46world title. If we went years and the Knicks didn't win it, then yeah, it's fair to say, okay, maybe
24:53they
24:53could have gotten somebody else if they had one or two more of those picks. That's fair. But they won
24:59the chip. So, all of that is kind of null and void.
25:03I agree. Now, before they won the chip, there was all this talk about if they, I remember this,
25:11this happened late in the winter, early spring. If the Knicks don't win this year, what should
25:15they do? Do they still have enough to go get Giannis? And I remember you specifically, I remember you
25:21had posted something, I think we saw it on social media, at least I did, that people would rather
25:26discuss a hypothetical Giannis trade. And I believe the way you phrased it was rather than a statement
25:32win for the team that actually existed and was playing right now. And some other media members
25:39who even are friends of ours had to be on platforms where they had to answer for this or try
25:45to come up
25:45with answers for this as the team was currently playing. So, I guess my question here is, and I really
25:51have wondered this, why did the imaginary version of the Knicks receive more attention than the good
25:57team that we had already seen, not the championship level, but at least a good team at that point
26:01that Leon Rose had built? Why did the imaginary version of the Knicks receive more attention than
26:07what the Knicks had shown to be in the last couple of years, like trending towards a good team that
26:11absolutely eventually won a championship?
26:13Because it's sexier to talk about fantasy than reality. And you can have your cake and eat it
26:19too by talking about the current team not living up to certain standards and what a future team might
26:24be. You serve multiple masters in that sense, and you can feed different types of narratives that
26:31can generate engagement and get people talking, right? Like you could starve the cynical fan who's
26:39thinking, man, this team ain't going to win. They're not there. They won 50 something games
26:43this regular season, but it wasn't impressive. You could starve them with saying, well, hey,
26:47if this doesn't work out, which in y'all history, it hasn't really worked out, but if it doesn't work
26:52out, hey, Giannis is there and oh, maybe LeBron too. So, you could retool this and take a legit shot
26:58to
26:59get the ring. And then you on the other end, you can look at the current team and say, which
27:05was still
27:05crazy to me, how they were on a winning streak and Mikael Bridges' bad play was coming up based on
27:13the
27:13winning streak and the whole picks conversation was going on and all of that. And I'm looking, I'm saying,
27:19yes, he's in a slump right now, but they're still winning. Not to mention some of the narratives off of
27:24those wins. They played who was on their schedule. They had a soft schedule. They were cleaning it up.
27:30And then people were like, well, they haven't beaten a 500 team in X amount of weeks. And then
27:34they had a stretch where they were playing playoff caliber teams. And then it started to be dated.
27:40When was the last time they won against a over 500 team when it's like, okay, when was the last
27:47time
27:48they played an over 500 team? They haven't played over 500 team in a moment. And I understand,
27:52I totally understand. These are the narratives that we got to look for when we want to talk about
27:56interesting things. But I think when you look at it within the greater context, you can see how
28:02it's not as serious of a situation as it's being purported to be unless the trend continues to a
28:12point where as media members, you got to, you got to decide whether you're trying to be early or on
28:19time or you're okay being late as long as things are accurate. And unfortunately with current business
28:25models, it does pay at times to be first. So I totally understand it. And if you legitimately feel
28:31that way, you can bring up rational arguments for it. But it just got to the point where I was
28:37like,
28:37man, we really, we're really doing this. Like, man, I hope this team can beat an above 500 team so
28:44that we can end this narrative and we can really talk about hoops again. But yeah, man, the fantasy
28:49versus reality of it all. And everybody eats when you, when you're dealing in multiple narratives that
28:55can both satisfy your cynicism and satiate the cynics.
29:00I think my disappointment with that as a media member is we can have those conversations. I
29:07believe, at least I believe we can still have the nuance in there. Like that, that should be able
29:12to exist. I understand to the point you made why that's not necessarily sexy all the time,
29:16but I feel like even here, we're having a nuanced conversation about this and that can exist. And I
29:23even think media should be critiqued and there's room for that and to have nuanced comments. Okay.
29:27How can we have better conversations about the teams that we cover, that we talk about? Can we do
29:34that? And so for me now, when we look at this, Jeff, the Knicks, they have answered the, can they
29:38win
29:38question? That question has been answered. But to me, one of the major questions now is the fact that
29:45they've answered that question. Will that actually change how they're covered or has it changed how
29:49they're covered, at least right now in the middle of the summer, or has the negativity simply evolved
29:54into, can they repeat? Was it a fluke? This is not a dynastic team. Do you think things have changed
30:02in how they're covered or the Knicks for clicks industrial complex negativity machine is just
30:08moving into a different space? Or you said, as you said earlier, rising from the ashes once again and
30:14totally transforming. What are you seeing with the way the Knicks are being covered right now to date
30:19after winning this championship? So it's funny you say that. I just saw the ringers top 100 and the
30:25Knicks are the only team that has their starting five or five players in general in the top 61.
30:33And they rank Brunson as fifth, top five in the league. And probably what shocked me even more is
30:40that they had Cat at 12 after some of the negative press that he's received and a lot of the
30:47scrutiny
30:47that he got last season being left off of the all NBA team in favor of some players who looked
30:53funny
30:53in the light this postseason. I think you're seeing the correctivity of the historical standing of these
31:01players and the current standing too. So I think whether people are objective about it or begrudging
31:11the way they have to cover it, you have to cover the Knicks now with a championship level respect.
31:17They've earned the plot armor. So when you speak about the Knicks, you're going to have to include,
31:24well, you know, this is the team that came back from historical deficits, whether it was the NBA cup,
31:30whether it was the NBA finals or in the Eastern conference finals, they're the ones to do it.
31:34Hey, if they're having a similar regular season, you know, this isn't really a concern.
31:39We know that there are 16 game team and they'll turn it up. See how the narrative changes as opposed
31:45to they need to get it together. They haven't proven anything. This is an indictment of their
31:52coaching staff and of the players. They made the wrong decisions. Maybe now is the time for them to
31:56make a trade, a massive trade in the mid season before the trade deadline so that they can get back
32:03on track. You won't really hear none of it unless and not being cause of injury, this thing completely
32:11falls off the rails, which I do not believe is going to be the case. Um, but unless this thing
32:17completely falls off the rails and it's not because of injury, I don't think this team is going to be
32:23covered negatively. In fact, I think the fans themselves made covering this team undeniable,
32:31like the fan, the fan base of the New York Knicks is its own section of the documentary of this
32:39championship season, because the way that the fan base traveled is unlike anything you see in North
32:45American sports, this side of maybe the Steelers, maybe the Cowboys, maybe the 49ers, but even then
32:53Packers too. It's normal for football stadiums to get taken over by the opposing teams, especially if
33:01the home team is bad or if it's a situation like the Rams and the chargers where they're still building
33:05their fan base in LA. It's normal. You don't see it like that in basketball, not to the level of
33:13intensity where we're talking about playoffs games, multiple games in somebody else's arena
33:20being taken over. San Antonio got taken over and they're halfway into the country. Like you got to
33:27take a real plane to get to San Antonio. You could drive if you, if you're in New York, if
33:31you could
33:32drive, if you're a maniac, but you got to take a real plane to get out there and they got
33:36overtaken.
33:37So when you have a super fanatical, super powerful, all traveling identity based fan base,
33:50and you have a championship team, I think the coverage is going to speak for itself. And now
33:56if you see any pushback or criticism is going to be on specific aspects of the season and, or the
34:02continued discussion about the individual players and the team's historical standing.
34:07And that's one of the things I'm most interested to watch going into next season. It's just how the
34:12coverage is going to be with the Knicks team. It's going to, it's going to be very, very interesting,
34:17but Knicks fans, you talked about, you can mention plot armor. Well, Knicks fans for all
34:22coverage, good, bad, in between, whatever you might want to say, they've got the ultimate response
34:26here, which is, and I've seen it from all Knicks fans. We won the championship. How much plot armor
34:33does that statement actually provide? Is it good for, I don't know, five years, 10 years, or is it
34:40until the Knicks have their first ugly playoff exit where people are going to be like, ah, yeah,
34:44that's one off. You can't hit me with the, we won the championship stuff anymore. How much plot armor
34:49do you think that statement provides is coming from Knicks fans so far?
34:53I think it gives you at least five. Cause I can remember it wasn't until the bucks completely
35:00fell off the, uh, the wheels completely fell off in Milwaukee and the trade rumors and the saxophone
35:06started getting louder for Giannis's time there that they were officially not considered a champion,
35:15even a remote shot at winning, uh, as a title contender. Uh, I've seen it with Denver and
35:21Denver is something that I've harped on for, for the last couple of years that because Nicola
35:27Jokic exists and play for the nuggets, they've always been put in the upper echelon of title
35:32contenders, despite the fact that they have injuries every post season, despite the fact that
35:38their defense has been amongst the league's worst, despite the fact that better teams and teams that
35:46are considered lesser of a title contender like the Knicks routinely handled them in the regular
35:53season, they would always get the benefit of, Oh, they are in the upper echelon of title contender.
35:59And maybe this year was the first year where it started to take a little bit of a hit.
36:04I mean, ditto for Boston. Yeah. You know, already know how I feel about that. These guys, they,
36:10they, they have the power of the, of the Plessy versus Ferguson titles, empowering them where they
36:17just show up and their automatic titles contenders, no matter what's going on, no matter what moves they
36:22make, Vegas wants you to make a donation every year, vaulting them into the top two, top three.
36:28And we're, we're banking on Missoula ball to be able to, for them to make those threes for, for your
36:36prediction to be fact. And if it was any other teams, there would be a lot more scrutiny. And there
36:44are people who have started to critique teams like the Nuggets and the Celtics, the way you would expect
36:50them to be critiqued after a certain, a certain, uh, track record, certain bounds of evidence in track
36:58record against them. So I think for the Knicks, it should last maybe three years, especially in this
37:05parody era. I think five years was normal, but in the parody era, it's probably more like three,
37:09but I do believe if they do have an ugly first round loss, people will be right back. Like I
37:14think
37:14there, there's a core group of people, whether it's the anti-Knick fan bases, rivals, um,
37:22media members who've just never believed or a combination of the two who are just waiting and
37:28hoping that that happens so that they can say, this was a lightning in the bottle team. That's
37:33what I'm hearing already. They're there. They, this was lightning in the bottle. They got hot at the
37:37right time. They're not really a historically dominant team. They just had a dominant run and
37:45they could be back to normal next year with, without ignoring the progression, the literal
37:51progression that was going on in our faces from the NBA cup to closing out the season to what
37:57happened post Atlanta. I think people ignore the progression and the things that they unlocked
38:02because they are so fixated on the narratives and what had come before that they couldn't see like,
38:09okay, this team is on an incline and it looks like this is more of a trend than a blip.
38:15So
38:16what we'll see, but it's going to be interesting to see how their eventual valleys next season are
38:23covered. See that that's the thing for me because it's a season. There are going to be valleys and I
38:30do like your time. I think three years in today's NBA with the statement from Knicks fans that look,
38:35we won the chip should give you some plot armor there for that long. But do you think there's
38:41something that could happen? I guess the follow-up to that would be next season that could reactivate
38:47the Knicks for Clicks industrial complex. Is it going to be Brunson going through a slump,
38:52right? Is it a cat controversy? A Leon Rose makes some move or trade, you know, maybe trying to
38:57upgrade the backup center position or, well, you kind of got to worry about this too. James Dolan
39:02can make a headline and, you know, people like, ah, things haven't changed with the Knicks. Do you
39:08think there's something that could happen next season that makes people try to, you know, put more
39:14dents in the plot armor? Do you think there's something that could happen in the season that
39:18could do that? Oh, don't them, don't let them lose games because of rebounding off of offensive
39:25boards or defensive boards. Don't let them lose because of poor backup center play. I think once
39:33that happens, you'll have people will say, see, they should have went over the second apron and
39:37signed Mitchell Robinson. Now look, they can't grab an offensive board in the clutch. They're getting
39:42killed on the boards now. Although signing Andre Drummond is probably the best response you could
39:48have if you want to keep controlling the boards as he's been historically one of the best rebounders
39:54the game is seen. But I think if they're getting killed on the boards and their interior defense
40:02suffers, I think you'll have people who will, and I'll say objectively so, start to question whether
40:10or not letting Mitch Robb go was a bad idea, especially if let's say he starts for the Celtics
40:15and he looks like a player that could play 70 games, which if you've been following him in his
40:21Knicks career, that doesn't seem likely given the injuries that he's had. But if he's thriving in
40:27the center position and that's helping Boston to be one of the top teams in the East and you fall
40:32off
40:32because of the lack of center play, especially depth, then I think that will be a catalyst to
40:41continuously criticize the Knicks for not going over the second apron, even though based on all the
40:46moves they've made afterwards, it does look like a shrewd move. Yeah. And you know what? You can even
40:52forget media. You can even already see some of that from the fan base because last couple of shows
40:57I've done, all fans are talking about what are you going to do with center? What are you going to
41:00do
41:00with center? So he's upgraded center. And I've been like, pump the brakes. They can still upgrade things
41:05the center as they go through the year, but you're right. If they, the center play is not, doesn't look
41:11like last year, you're going to get some reaction to that. Now, Jeff, you said this, you said Knicks fans
41:18are prosecuting the industrial complex, like the Salem witch trials. Love that, right? Is pulling old
41:25receipts for Knicks fans a necessary part of enjoying this championship or are in that realm with the
41:32Knicks fans pulling receipts? Are they now helping the same outrage economy that they spent years
41:37criticizing? Where are you on the Knicks fans pulling receipts right now as they celebrate this
41:41championship? So there's truth in, in both of those statements that you made, right? The whole purpose
41:51of rage baiting and engagement beating is for you to engage. If you disengage from the rage bait,
42:00then it dissolves into the ether and they don't get the attention that they want. So you could just
42:08keep on moving with your life on the other side of the spectrum for this specific situation, your team
42:14won a championship. The ritual is that you are able to talk your ish as much as you want. And
42:24that
42:24includes pulling up receipts, pulling up receipts from fan bases and rivals who had a whole bunch of
42:29stuff to say. You want to talk about pride in being a Knicks fan? The fact that that team did
42:35all the
42:36talking for the fans, you didn't really have to say anything. All you had to do was favorite a bunch
42:41of messages that you get, text messages, messages on social, whatever have you, and just pull them up
42:48once the Knicks win. That was four rounds, Dexter, of receipts being pulled. And then what was going to
42:55happen? Because this is a once in a lifetime moment where they ended that 53 year drought.
43:03People had decades worth of receipts and they were rolling them out. Didn't matter if they were right
43:08at the top. Didn't matter if they were dead wrong. But all them times that people try to bask in
43:16the
43:16Knicks failures and the suffering of their fandom. Well, now the chickens have come home to roost
43:24and we about to have dinner. That's what it is. That's what it is right now. And every fan base
43:31gets to do it when their team wins. No one wanted the Knicks to win because they knew that this
43:35would
43:36be generational. This wouldn't just be a, hey, we're going to get this off for a couple of days and
43:41then go on with our lives. No, this is life now. This is how we operate. Welcome to the new
43:46world
43:47order of the NBA. It is with the Knicks on top as NBA champions and the fan base that you
43:52trolled into
43:53oblivion now has the tools of their oppressors ready to wield at them. And people didn't want that.
44:01And now we here. So just like Knicks fan had to take their medicine after elimination and
44:06elimination and the, the Becky Hammond clip having to be spammed every time the Knicks got eliminated
44:11from the playoffs. Take your, take your medicine in kind, just take your medicine in kind and don't
44:18worry. It'll end eventually. I can't tell you when, but it'll end eventually and maybe you'll get some
44:23peace. But this is why when you talk crap as a fan, you know that the blitz as the kids
44:31would say
44:32is coming for you. And listen, y'all didn't pay your offensive line enough because it is,
44:38it is matter door defense. It is matter door blocking that you're seeing right now. So I
44:44don't, I don't have any shame. Like of course, nobody should be getting called out their name.
44:49Nobody should be trolling. It shouldn't be hateful and all that. We know that this should be an all
44:54in good, clean fun, but the energy you dealt, you're getting tenfold. So just eat that and keep it
45:01moving. Yeah, it's all in the game. It's, it's, it's, it's all in the game for me. I, I, the
45:06reason
45:07I asked that question is, yes, I do think that sometimes fan bases can pay way too much attention
45:13to what is being said in the national media when it's negative and let that seep in all the time.
45:18And maybe some folks try to seek validation for that, but I'm always about keeping receipts.
45:23You got to keep the receipts and you got to let people know, not, I heard you, I saw you,
45:28I had that in
45:30the back of my mind. I don't think it should affect your day. It should affect your mood or anything
45:33like that, or you should give them too much energy, but I'm here for the keeping of the receipts. And
45:38to your point, those folks that said the statements that didn't like it, I'm sure they
45:43wanted to end Jeff. They want this to end quickly. They didn't want the, the stuff you're seeing all
45:49around the city. You're seeing blue and orange, everything. Shout out to my man, Sky Zoo. You're
45:53seeing this all the time. I had one of my best friends told me the other day, he's able to
45:58go back
45:59and watch painful moments in Nick's history. He turned on game five of the 93 semifinals against
46:06the bulls when Charles Smith missed the layups. And he was like, I'm fine. Cause he got to see
46:12the championship.
46:14Yeah. It no longer holds power over any fans. Again, like I, I thought about all of those
46:20playoff failures and I'm like, yeah, it don't sting the same way anymore. Right. I'm over it.
46:25They released decades of generational sports trauma on this fan base. And now it's one of
46:32those things where you can laugh at now. Like, yo, damn, they really gave it up against Indiana,
46:36man. That was crazy. You won the title though. That you can laugh now. Like, damn, you ain't
46:42missed a finger roll. I couldn't even say those words as a fan for years. I couldn't even like
46:47when people say, what is your most hurtful moment as a fan, I would tell them, you know
46:52what it is. And I just can't bring it up. And, and you say it fan to fan and they
46:57know
46:57what you're talking about.
46:58Yep.
46:58So, you know, like the championship heals everything, man. And while the, yeah, there
47:04was a lot of squandered opportunities made, maybe PJ Brown can come back to New York city
47:09at this point. And maybe he, the novelized zone will be up on him. That's how jubilant
47:14and magnanimous the fan bases felt. So that's why I say, man, like it is what it is. Like
47:19they, they were able to heal it and we good to go now.
47:21Yeah. I feel that you could feel that in the city. You can feel that among the fan base.
47:25And I think that's a good place for us to end here because with this, because the
47:29Knicks, they're no longer the NBA's punchline. They were for some time. We've talked about
47:33this in the media coverage. They are the NBA champions. So for you, Jeff, what would
47:37honest, intelligent Knicks coverage look like now? And what will tell you that the
47:44Knicks for clicks industrial complex has started rebuilding because that's your
47:48prediction that they will rebuild at some point, right? Cause I didn't watch the
47:52movie credits at first. I didn't watch the credits at first. They
47:55where we don't leave when you see the credits. Don't leave the credits. You
47:58got to stay for more, especially with Jeff. Cause he don't bring the nuance for
48:00you. But I, and I say this in terms of you and I as people who I think do
48:08honest, intelligent Knicks coverage. And hopefully people enjoy this
48:11discussion, but do you think that'll shift more to mainstream media? And do you
48:15think, yeah. And the second part I asked you is, what do you think is going to
48:19tell you that the Knicks for clicks industrial complex has started to rise like
48:22Phoenix from the ashes? I mean, it already started with the whole backlash
48:27against, uh, where we're putting guys like Jalen Brunson in, in history. Like I saw
48:35some lists that didn't even consider him like barely a top 10 player in the league.
48:40It's like, what are we doing here? Like this is the type of stuff now that fans can
48:44just laugh at, right? Fans can laugh at it because it's, it was clear before when
48:50folks were engagement baiting. Now that the Knicks have won a title, it has shined a
48:56crazy, brilliant spotlight on what people are saying about this team. So now when you
49:01say it, we're like, Oh, that's bait. You don't believe that. You don't even believe
49:06that yourself. So I think it started once the overwhelming praise started to be heaped
49:14on the Knicks. I mean, Dexter, I think it's fair to say, and I never thought I would say
49:19this about a New York team. The Knicks in the 2026 playoffs became as close as America's team
49:33as we have ever seen. Wow. In the NBA, in a singular post season, I think teams like the Lakers
49:40and the Celtics, they have large fan bases that are everywhere. But when you talk about,
49:46when you think about the collective support from a majority of the viewing public as to
49:55who they want to win, they, they threw their whole support behind the, it's like, this was
50:01a new feeling hearing people in different cities, talk about it, seeing the conversation, folks
50:08actively supporting a Knicks title because they want to see the story. They, they're now
50:13invested in the 53 years ending, especially when it was up against the new young phenom of
50:19the league. I thought it was incredible to witness. I didn't, I never thought, and of any
50:25team, I wouldn't have expected it to be the Knicks, but maybe that's where my eyes weren't
50:30open wide enough because you look at this team and they are a team that you should root for.
50:35They are a team of story, a story team of a guy who was counted out at multiple levels,
50:41but all he did was win. But no one wanted to put him on that pedestal until he snatched
50:45the pedestal and just continue to work hard and rose and got better to become a superstar.
50:50Somebody like Kat, who was the original Prince who was promised. The guy who multiple times
50:56was voted as the one player you would build your team around in the current era, who people
51:02expected so much for, so much from. Now he was able to put it all together and now he's an
51:07NBA
51:08champion and you really can't tell him anything. Guys like OG who stepped onto the national
51:13spotlight, a guy like McHale, Josh Hart, who I think every NBA coach would want on their team.
51:20There's a reason why he ends up starting. There's a reason why he was starting for Team USA.
51:24He is like a coach's dream and a fan base's dream with the way that he plays. And then the
51:30bench mob was incredible with Mitch and Deuce, Shamit. Think about Shamit. I think he was drafted,
51:38but I know he was on multiple, multiple unguaranteed contracts and minimums. And he went from that,
51:47from a minimum contract signing to a key rotation piece. Jose Alvarado, the one super native New
51:57Yorker who became like a top five Puerto Rican ever after this championship run, especially in New
52:04York, definitely in 2026. It's incredible to watch. So when you see those multiple stories,
52:10the confluence of those multiple stories come together, how could you root against them?
52:15And I think that's what pissed a lot of people off, even rivals like, damn,
52:19I don't want to like the Knicks, but I like these guys. It's kind of like when KG and Ray
52:25Allen went
52:26to the Celtics. I was like, come on. That's a good cop. They are good. These are players I like
52:31to root
52:31for, but why are you with the Celtics? That is an entire team of those type of people, type of
52:37players,
52:38compelling people to support them. It's been written, man. Like at this point, they are a model
52:44franchise. They have an incredible front office and they have a team that's going to be competing
52:49for years to come. How can you hate on that? But people will find a way. Look, I mean, rule
52:55number
52:55one, I would say you could always be mad. You can always hate. Somebody will find a way. Oh yeah.
53:00They will absolutely find a way. But I think everything you said is right. I was stunned by the
53:04amount of texts that I got from people from other fan bases across the country.
53:09I have somebody who went to college who was a Timberwolves fan that was just so happy to see
53:12it for Cat. So yeah, even Sixers fans, y'all know who you are, had to text me and say,
53:21Bro, you know how many in-person and in-text, yo, I'm happy for you guys. Or like, I'm happy
53:27for you because I know. Listen, man, I grew up in an era where half the city was Jordan fans.
53:33And that's why they like the Bulls. Like, you got to understand, like, this is deep. We've been
53:37dealing from the man-fan epidemic since the 90s, bro. And Jordan was undeniable, but this win
53:45has changed the, shifted the paradigm for fandom in this city. Now the Knicks are cured the next
53:53generation of fans. If you're 18 or under, they ain't no other team to root for if you're from New
53:59York.
54:00There is no other team to root for but the Knicks. And they've just ensured that they have a
54:05generation of fans locked in. And you won't, you'll have people who, you know, they always
54:09have their favorite players. But when it comes to rep it for the city, they've made it a cultural
54:14moment. They've made it a cultural experience between the celebs, alumni row, the team itself,
54:21the aura of the building, and then the traveling fan base. Why would you not want to be where it's
54:27hot?
54:28Yeah. You've seen, if you're a young Knicks fan to that point, you've seen the height. And that's
54:34very different from when we grew up, but you're right. For the young kids who don't know, the
54:38Jordan era, it was split. You could be in your school and everybody was not rooting for the
54:43Knicks. There was a lot of, there was a lot of Jordan fans. I was just with my boy the
54:47other day
54:47who, we went to the same middle school, and he was a Charlotte Hornets fan. Okay?
54:51Oh yeah. Um, now he roots for the other team here in this city, but we're not going to talk
54:55about that. But yeah, he did that. So that's what it was at that time. And I think you're
55:01right that this is a cultural moment, Jeff, and this is going to mean so much for the fan
55:05base and the younger fans going forward. And I think the energy that Knicks fans just to
55:10round this up and going against the Knicks for clicks industrial complex. What I'll say
55:15is I think Knicks fans have always been smart fans. I think you and I know in the work we
55:19do, they've always appreciated honest, intelligent conversation. You're not going to lie to the
55:25people. You're not going to fool the Knicks fans. They know their basketball. And I think
55:29when, as you said, the new Knicks for clicks, industrial complex starts to rise again from the
55:36ashes. People have been keeping receipts. I'll just say this. I have full faith that the Knicks
55:42fans and the media that covers them, honestly, they'll be ready. I have full faith. They'll
55:48be ready. They're going to be ready. And now it's going to be more of a fun undertaking
55:54than it was a defense of you as a New Yorker, you as a Knicks fan and the Knicks team
56:04in
56:04general. I think it's going to be more so that. And now it's going to be the conversation
56:10that you can really laugh off and just say, Hey, and then, you know, continue to keep receipts
56:15because that's the beauty of this is they were proven wrong once and they more than likely
56:20will be proven wrong again. So it's, it's, it's, it's beautiful to be on that side of
56:25a fandom with a championship because they really can't tell you nothing.
56:28I agree. Perfect place to end that everybody is Jeff Johnson. Check him out with Knicks
56:34film school. Does a fantastic job. He brings you honest, intelligent conversation all the
56:39time. And he's the person that coined the phrase Knicks for clicks industrial complex.
56:43You got to put some respect on his name for that. For sure. Jeff, I appreciate you, my God
56:48for coming through, having this conversation. I thought it was a good one. Um, it's got, look,
56:52it's going to continue to be a fun summer for you. I'm, I'm sure it's a great summer in New
56:56York city, uh, orange and blue skies. Uh, we're going to enjoy, you know, I always appreciate
57:00you coming through on New York got game. Thank you, man. Thank you, brother. I appreciate
57:04you. All right, everybody. We'll catch you next time on another episode of New York got
57:09game. See you then. Peace.
57:13And thanks for watching New York got game. Boom shakalaka.
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